Rioter Comments
: Except I don't play his champs, so your argument is invalid. Not to mention, your claim doesn't refute the proof, he has made several very popular champ, some of the most popular in the entire game. Whether they are healthy for the game or not, the fact remains he has put out some truly unique champs.
Unique champs do not mean balanced or healthy. It really doesn't matter if they're popular, they are still unhealthy to a proper gaming environment. He's not arguing those champs are popular, but he also says popularity doesn't make things ok in terms of balance.
: > [{quoted}](name=KillMaimSteal,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=KhcvQBlG,comment-id=0064,timestamp=2015-08-07T23:09:55.608+0000) > > Mordekaiser has always been iconic as a solo-laner. To take that from him is to tear out his heart; regardless of the pitiful replacement that is created, it will be little more than a hollow shell. Mordekaiser has always been trully ICONIC! Melee, manaless, shielding, no escapes, and full AP; Mordekaiser has always stood alone among a horde of AP, ranged, combo-heavy laners. You know, the most iconic part of Mordekaiser to me is how much of a pain in the ass he is to lane against on live, whether you're winning or losing (and this is coming from someone that enjoys playing him too). His entire playstyle comes down to "Can I outshield/out-spellvamp my opponent's damage?" In fact, at the risk of going off-track, everything you described him with technically applies to Rumble, which goes to show that none of that is what really makes Mordekaiser Mordekaiser. If I really had to pick something _iconic_ about him, it would be his ult, stealing a ghost of an enemy for your team, and the rework has only reinforced that identity by giving him a dragon to go with it. > I have played Mordekaiser for a little over 5 years now. In the past year of so, I cannot recall ever losing my lane. And for some reason, you think this is a good thing that means he needs absolutely no rework whatsoever? > Above all! Keep him AP! To suggest anything else is just ridiculous! You want to create a Melee AD champ that has No CC and NO mobility!? Much less, you want to create a melee AD support(!) with no peel whatsoever!? What the hell are you thinking!? Firstly, he is absolutely not a support either before or after this rework, and I have no idea what keeps making people say that. Secondly, his AP ratios have remained unchanged (save for Q obviously, but it's arguably an AP buff anyways). In fact, he was given an AP-scaling heal, so if anything, AP Mordekaiser should be stronger post-rework than pre-work, so feel free to do your thing just like before.
I had a big thing, but the website had a hiccup and Im too mad to rewrite it all BASICALLY Mordekaiser has an identity unique to him. If you think he's like rumble, does that mean EVERY BURST MAGE IS THE SAME? No. it doesn't. They all have a similar base, but they have individual powers and playstyles that make them special. I don't think he doesn't need a rework. But this one isn't it. He's right, stripping him of what makes him, him, and pushing him elsewhere is... risky. And they could have EASILY made a new champ with this idea. I agree he's not a support, but his PBE kit doesn't really let him be an effective melee range ADC. I agree, he has Ap ratios, and the heal is quite nice, but does it negate the problems with some aspects? NO. There are problems and holes with this kit, and despite the buffs, it doesn't change problems. I like the E buff, the idea of scaling as time goes on is kinda nice. It still scales with AP so nothing wrong with that. I hate the W being locked when not in duo. That one is just bad. I wouldn't say ap Morde will be stronger, just it's still viable in terms of raw output.
: Skins are not made specifically for you, so saying this here is a waste of breath. I don't own nor play darius but that doesn't mean I can't offer critical feedback about a skin that may be released for him. It's also not my place preach how x champion has more or less skins than x champion, because that is not why we are in the pbe. The idea is to play with the new content, report any bugs, and finally, give feedback on new material in terms of quality, regardless of whether or not you main or have never played x champion.
Perhaps, but that doesn't mean I didn't offer any feedback on the other skins. Though not in depth I could easily do so, but I really don't feel like spending that much time on it. Point being, this a feedback thing. Feedback encompasses a certain range of things, which can, and often does, include ire for a skin, for varying reasons. I could list reasons I still don't like the Ahri skin, or the Vlad skin, but there is always levels of prejudice involved in something you just don't care about. Your "place" is in fact to comment. Preaching is not the same as a commentary, though I can the lines being blurred at this intersection. But between them, your place on the pbe is to offer feedback as a member of the community for betterment of the game. We don't make this game, but we are an integral part of it, seeing as it was, and is, designed for the community to play. If that includes a commentary on an abundance of skins, then that is acceptable. If we simply said "Riot does as it wants" that is wrong, for they make things for the community. We cannot tell them to do everything as we wish, but there must be a line between acceptable and unacceptable. If Riot released 8 Ahri skins in a row, feedback can include a commentary on there being too many. I have an opinion, and that falls within the grounds of feedback. Whether or not YOU agree, I do not care. I simply offer feedback on a set of skins for champions that while I don't care for, have no quarrel with. We are in the PBE to offer changes, usually oriented towards bugs or glitches or finding errors. But that does not mean we cannot comment on a trend or a fad or something that impacts the game.
: being in a duo lane vs a ranged and a peeling champion (as in adc and a support) is literally morderkasiers worst enviornment. with the hybrid scalings with nerfed base damage on e, it does less damage if you build full ap, you know what the rest of hit kit scales on. they also forced you to build hp to have any value of the shield. they just nerfed the shit out of his lategame besides the q, you cant hit anyway BECAUSE WHY WOULD YOU MAKE MORDEKAISER HAVE TO GO UP AND AUTO PEOPLE WITHOUT ANY MOBILITY OR CC. THIS LITERALLY ADDRESSES NONE OF HIS PROBLEMS. and steraks makes no sense on him considering he does pure fucking magic damage.
They are addressing morde's problems! By making someone else cover for you, which is so stupid. He had flaws in his current state, but at least he could fight and survive. Now? Now he can't, because he needs someone to hold his hand. I think that's just stupid.
: Thanks for the kind words about my approach to champion design. I appreciate it. I completely agree about organically letting players discover things. I don't feel that this version of Mordekaiser violates that. Morde gets bonus exp when allies are present, and deals tremendous AOE when he has another ally around. As a first read, this means "shove him in bot". However, that shouldn't be the end of your thinking as a player -- perhaps Mordekaiser can trilane, 5 man mid, double jungle, shove hard with his jungler and roam, or rush mobis and move lane to lane taking every creep on the map, etc. It's up to you, the playerbase, to figure out what the optimal strategy is for a champion. It's my responsibility as a designer to give each champion a safe home where they know the champion can be played functionally; please don't conflate that with "forcing" you to play one way.
I am sorry to say this sir, but frankly, the idea of negating powers in favour of working as a team IS forcing someone to play. Your argument is "Find something new." But let's face it, Mordekaiser will be, and always is, an immobile force. Thematically alone, he doesn't feel like someone who plays nice with others. He feels more like an angry bull you send in a direction and hope to god he doesn't turn around. But outside of thematics, which is a WHOLE 'nother issue, we have the issue of a large, bulky tank-esque fighter who is meant to fight nimble people and a lot of cc. I've pointed this out in a few arguments is: Your making it a requirement to work with someone to get the full experience. That's no different than buying a game, only to find out you need to play online modes to unlock certain story missions or abilities that are integral to gameplay. That is not an appropriate or acceptable solution, ever. Your ideas of changing how we think is, admittedly, admirable, but ultimately flawed. In a closed system that has not been kind to change, it is very difficult to get people away from what works in favour of something new. Let's be realistic, how many people would accept tri-lining in a ranked? Or perhaps a dual jungle? I don't think anyone is really going to be open minded except in fun games. Which even then, is very unlikely, as people are closed off in their beliefs. I am not a pessimistic person, but I am a realist. Humanity at nearly every turn proves itself to be flawed and angry and against anything outside of what makes them comfortable. League's community is very much a paragon of that. I tried Jinx top, and it was FUN, but people would dodge games and just rage and hate, all because it wasn't within a social norm. Safety and Home is fine, I dislike the idea of Mordekaiser being at home in bot, but it's a possibility of an acceptable change. But negating other play styles in favour of home seems... selfishly unhealthy. I can't agree with that. Again, I dislike a lot of changes and like a bunch of them, but the biggest killer is his W changes. All I'm saying is CONSIDER a rioter/internal play where his W is usable on anything, but it gives champion usage more benefits.
: YOU consider she doesn't need new skins, I DO consider she needs a higher quality skin. Diana has better skins than Ahri, even Aatrox has Mecha Aatrox which is a high quality skin. "Fairly decent" doesn't cut it for me, and for a lot of other people. I want a skin where the ball is something else besides a sphere of energy with different colors. I would also love they fix her tails, and give her a new model because the current one DO has big issues if you pay attention.
That's your decision, but I fully disagree that Diana has better skins. Ahri has Challenger, Popstar, and in my own opinion Firefox, all of which are every nice. Diana has 2, of which Lunar Godess I dislike for to me it doesn't suit her at all, given her personality that is portrayed. I can see a point for Dark Valykrie, but then you still only have 2 skins. And heaven forbid if they want to make Lunar Guardian, I will puke in disgust at the awful idea. Aatrox may have Mecha Aatrox, but that's probably his best skin in my own opinion. He recently got one, which is ok, but it's nothing special. But he can go down on the needs a skin list given he's had a few recently, but that doesn't negate the fact he still has fewer skins. Do I feel he really needs another? Maybe, but not as much as many others. and I don't pay attention to Ahri. I don't like her nor care for her. To me, she has decent to good skins, and it's hard to argue that they aren't decent. Fairly decent may not cut it for you, but consider Kennen or Swain or Diana, or Poppy, or even Evelynn, champions with few skins that are decent and have less skins. What you want in a skin is your own personal preference and I have no control or desire to control that. But I find it hard to even try to justify her needing more skins given the number she has and the fairly decent quality of them. She's no Teemo, who has buttloads of skins a few of which are really good, but she does have a number of decent skins compared to most.
: > [{quoted}](name=stay70573,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=EbbsvVwR,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T02:23:26.237+0000) > Also going to point out that all of Ahri's currently released skins are 975. *Quietly points out that Midnight is 750 RP* Okay, okay. Sorry v.v Anyways, i'm just gonna say this, I agree in a sense but disagree as well. I would love to see some champs with less skins getting more, Thresh for example. He only has 3 skins, one of which is limited/legacy. However, champs that you suggested like Diana and Poppy aren't very popular so riot gets less money since their will be less people spending money on RP for those skins, so it's unlikely to happen often sadly. Onto the part of me that disagrees.... Well, that's just the Ahri main in me. I can't exactly say 'no' to a new skin for my champion, can I?
I stand corrected. But the point remains, she has some fairly decent skins above the 520 mark that aren't recolours or reskins. Poppy herself was merely an example. I love Diana and shes not unpopular, but she isn't near the levels of Ahri. But it's a vicious cycle too. Yes gameplay has its important parts but so do visuals. I bought Full Metal Jayce because I wanted it, but I never play Jayce. But I also bought Grand General Swain and Soul Reaver Draven because they looked awesome, and learned to enjoy and learn them. And that's the kicker. If a visual entices you, you learn to enjoy something. I started because Mordekaiser looked AMAZING, and thus I spent my money because of that. But he's not very common or popular, but people do what I do, and skins are PURELY visual. I own a lot of skins I don't use, but I own them because they look great. I can't blame you for saying no, but you yourself understand that she has a lot of good skins. She really doesn't need more.
: maybe you dont care about ahri skins buyt ppl do like myself infact ahri dosent have a 1350/1820 skin meanwhile darius has, another thing ahri and darius have almsot the same number of skins soo please dont try to talk as a whole group {{champion:103}}
Fix your spelling god damn it, this was a headache to read. Considering this will make 5 skins for Darius and 6 for Ahri is fine. But considering I said I am tired of Ahri. I said WE as in a community, cause I don't think anyone is going to argue if a champion with 2 or less skins receives a new skin, I really don't. I didn't "WE AS A COMMUNITY DON'T WANT AHRI." I said I DON'T. Community can want whatever the hell it wants, I have my own opinion on the subject. But I repeat, don't try and pin me as "speaking for the community." I speak for me and me alone on the subject of individual skins opinions. Also going to point out that all of Ahri's currently released skins are 975. Most champs who have multiple skins have a few recolours. Ashe has 7 skins, 2 of which are recolors, 3 of which are 520, and the rest are 975 or 750. Do I want another Ashe skin? No, I really don't. Teemo recently got an 1820 skin with another 7 skins behind that. Do I want more Teemo skins? NO. Ahri has enough skins frankly all of which are separate models and are not recoloured, and frankly she does not deserve an 1350 or an 1820 skin right now. I am tired of the same few champions getting new skins because of popularity. They could have EASILY made Poptart Ahri a 1350 given her sound effects. Or they could have tweaked Challenged Ahri and given her more VFX and sounds to make her 1350. But they didn't, they let them be at 975. So you can want more and more and more. I do not nor want to, given how she has enough. She really does, any champion who has more non-recoloured and non-reskin skins than 5 has enough for the moment. I would rather have focus on Diana or Poppy or Azir or Aatrox, or anyone who doesn't have a lot of skins. I get you have a boner for Ahri, but that doesn't mean she deserves more skins.
: Harvesters of Sorrow (W) is not castable without an ally champion present. If you are alone as Mordekaiser, you'll have to do without it unless an ally ganks/roams for you. As others mentioned, Morde is still able to solo lane/jungle in our testing, but doesn't shine as brightly as he does in a duo lane. I'm comfortable with that mainly because I do not think that Mordekaiser can ever be a marquee example of a healthy solo lane champion given how stark his strengths and weakness profile is -- An excessive number of his lane matchups are determined either at champion select or through jungler intervention, not through the relative skill of Mordekaiser and his lane opponent. As I began to work on his mechanics though, the thing that stood out was how defined Mordekaiser was by those stark strengths and weaknesses. To round out his kit would have been to compromise him as a champion.
I hope you understand a lot of people aren't happy with these changes and neither am I, for varying reasons. Perhaps the biggest is the switch to forcing him into a duo lane. Very few champions have kits that force them to need another player, but all that do, to this point, are still viably stronger and do in fact require one, example being Kalista due to her squish but also her raw damage output. Alone she can survive, sometimes, but mostly she requires the aid of another to circumvent any real weaknesses. Mordekaiser, on the other hand, is squishy in some areas and tanky in others, but the fact remains that forcing yourself to depend on someone else, despite this being considered a team game, is not an effective method of playing. It is extremely unhealthy and even more so it is dangerous. Locking him out of an ability is dangerous, especially considering how games are and can be played. If your support dies? If you have a support like Bard who wanders? If you just have toxic teammates? Variables that cannot not be controlled in such a way that make his ability ineffective. I mean, if it was an ult related change, maybe, given it's not a fundamental or integral part of his kit in early phases. But a W? that's a little risky and a little bit too dangerous. An idea perhaps? Change it so it CAN be used on a minion, but heals and damage ratios are significantly reduced. Don't lock him out of that, that puts someone at an extreme disadvantage. The problem is, a champion like Mordekaiser should have remained viable in both, and though you mention he has the potential to do so, you effectively negated his damage output in favour of forcing us to play with other people. That is extremely unhealthy, and should never be used in a manner like this. I can live with lower damage values, though they don't scream to me he's getting a viable change, but changing two of his abilities in a manner the prevents them from use without certain circumstances is bad. Another issue is his limited range in combat. There really isn't any viable method of surviving a fight at long ranges with an adc. He's just going to get poked down before he can get close enough, even with his shield, especially at lower levels. And once again, without a tanky support who can hold and peel, it's very difficult. And that's another issue I have. If someone sees Mordekaiser, cc and long range bot lane it is. I get the idea of counter play, but reality for me is, I hate it. I don't like that fact that picking something means you are just going to have to play something to stop it. Same for playing in favour of. Limiting oneself to a specific set of supports for a single person due to their inabilities is bad. I just find the idea of limiting oneself based on your team is unhealthy to a 'fun' environment. Honestly? I like the ideas but prefer more controlled changes that aren't too drastic in a way that nullifies how Mordekaiser can play. Please consider: Having his W usable on minions to prevent him from not having any access to it. Lower Damage values and heal values and possibly up cooldowns on it to indicate, while usable, it is better in X circumstance. Having his R usable while Dragon is up, but once used on a champ the dragon disappears. Or even just let it be usable as a healing/damaging source, given you don't gain any health from dragon death. Possibly upping his E damage on champions and lowering it on minions, just so he doesn't lose out on keeping up in fights. Change his scaling so his ult has AD scaling or change it so his AP scaling is slightly better. And for real. _**DON'T FORCE HIM TO PLAY WITH OTHERS. THEMATICALLY IT'S DUMB, AND IN GAMEPLAY IT IS SUCH A VARIABLE THAT IT CAN MAKE BREAK A GAME. THAT IS NOT HOW A GAME SHOULD BE PLAYED. IF YOU HAVE ASSHOLE TEAMMATES, OR WANDERING SUPPORTS, OR JUST PLAIN BAD TEAM COMP, YOU'VE EFFECTIVELY NEUTERED YOURSELF. DO NOT MAKE IT SO HE IS REQUIRED TO HAVE SOMEONE ELSE IN A SPECIFIC SET OF SKILLS TO ENSURE HE CAN WIN, MAKE IT SO HE CAN SURVIVE AND WIN ON HIS OWN, BUT IT'S MUCH HARDER TO DO. **_
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Academy: Ahri, Darius, Ekko, and Vladimir!
I don't think these skins look bad, but I'm just REALLY tired of Ahri skins at this point. Like... we had some major ones of Poptart and Challenged Ahri, and that was cool. But I just don't care for Ahri. Like.. I'm ok with Darius skins, I don't like the hair personally, but it's ok. I don't care much for Ekko, but it's good he's getting a third skin. Don't care for Vlad either but he hasn't had a skin in a while so that's fine. I get this might not be the best place, but can we start getting skins for champs who could use some? I'd like a new Diana skin that isn't lunar guardian or something stupidly frilly. Or maybe even just skins for champs who have 2 or less and haven't had one in a while. I used to go on about morde, but he recently got KoC and that made me happy.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Omega Squad Teemo!
Given the fact Teemo is listed as Rumble's rival, and vice versa, why does Teemo not have any taunts for Rumble? Same thing for the vice versa, as SG Rumble had nothing for Teemo, nor did the Heimerdinger update have anything for Rumble and Vice Versa. What gives?
Rioter Comments
: I believe this matter was discussed on Reddit a few times now. People have been demanding that quote for Blitz, Thresh and Skarner for a while. I think the problem is that that phrase is copyrighted and it would be quite hard/expensive to gain rights to use it since it is one of the most famous Mortal Kombat quotes.
To be fair, I am unsure whether or not the actual words "Get over here" are grounds for a lawsuit, as they are merely words. Considering Shen has two HEAVILY inspired MK skins, and a number of skins could border lawsuit worthy, it's hard to justify what can or can't be, unless it's a pure copy of a character (I.E. making an actual Scorpion for League, named Scorpion, etc)
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Battlecast Alpha Skarner!
How likely is it that we can get an additional line recorded? I mean... Look at his tail... Does no one else want a Scorpion-esque **"GET OVER HERE!"** line?
Rioter Comments
: Splash coming soon!
Honestly, what is the likelyhood you will agree to give her pants? :/
: PBE Bugs & Feedback: Headhunter Caitlyn!
Riot, please understand We are NOT ungrateful, a Caitlyn skin is Excellent However, we ARE fairly upset with the direction. The current design is the same scenario as Headmistress Fiora But, in difference Caitlyn is not a floozy style champion, her design should represent the strong and powerful character Yes, the belts are nice, but I mean, she needs pants, not a skirt It is impractical and more designed for attention rather than practicality Same with the cleavage window Please consider changing those to help better present her as a strong character.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback: Headhunter Caitlyn!
Honestly? I'm not a huge fan As a friend had put it: ”That headhunter skin came out!” >Oh boy! Let me see! … how in the fuck is that a headhunter skin. It doesn’t match the colour scheme as the others, and what kind of a self-respecting hunter doesn’t wear pants? And what the hell, that cleavage window is so large you might as well not have bothered wearing /anything/. >Every single one of them has skintights underneath. Even Nidalee, who runs around in nothing but a loincloth has stockings. It makes sense for her character to have ripped them because she’s a shapeshifter. But Caitlyn gets nothing? Bare legs, for all the mosquitoes and leeches and thorns and everything else that is going to be plaguing a hunter. Caitlyn’s lore says her ‘er ensemble is as alive with the activity of gears as it is revealing, both facets competing for attention’. You can translate that to a futuristic AvP reference without needing 100% cleavage. For fuck’s sake. There are better ways to interpret female armour! >Hat? Yes, lovely interpretation. Gun? Fuck yeah, I’m down. But give her some pants, even some bloody skintights, and close that bloody cleavage window! She's right you know, Caitlyn, as a whole, has been heavily sexualized to point where she stops resembling a law enforcer and more of a stripper or someone who dresses skimpy Yes, I agree it's possible for a character to be a strong woman AND dress as they want, but it tends to go too far. I honestly believe giving her pants of some sort, or atleast removing the bare legs, and changing the cleavage window to something more closed would both improve the model, and help reinforce the image of Caitlyn being a tough, no nonsense person.
: Can't connect to the PBE server
I am, and I'm unsure what the main issue is. Riot, please send aid.
: Patch 4.5 - Itemization Changes
I think the major issue with current discussions is that most people making comments about "What if this?" Is that for MOST champions, buying the current wota would be more of a win more condition. Swain, I buy wota, but i usually buy it fairly late game. Annie, Ryze, Mundo, I never buy spellvamp on, and I've never touched kennen. Most Mundos can afford to skip spellvamp and go straight for health regen, since they're supremely tanky and can regen to the max with a good item set. Vlad and Morde are different. As a Morde main, I argue Morde needs spellvamp if he wants to be an aggressive mid/top. His lack of cc and resources means early game needs you to constantly regen health. Vlad, while having a heal, is very similar. So these sorts of changes will both grant them playability, but make their laning and playing MUCH easier for players. I mainly focus on the Morde buffs it gives, since again, I am a main. I could point out that his current pick selection is approx 2% of all matches in s4 (using lolking stats) I would point out that this does not make Morde invincible, only better. Considering many champions can outrange and cc him, he will still have a hard time regardless.
: Am I the only one who sometimes picks up gunblade on Morde? His Q has an AD scaling, and while his spells have fairly short cd's, he needs to be in close range to use them, so giving him mildly useful autoattacks so that he can do things while waiting for his E to be available again isn't actually a bad thing. Plus, it has cc, something Mordekaiser very much lacks. He's possibly the least sticky champion in the game, which is why I also usually go rylai's/liandry's on him.
I do too, and I main Morde, but the changes with WotA make me happy, as they are very similar to the S3 WotA. The main reason I will probably use this new WotA is the fact that his burst early game will be fierce, AND the fact it gives some major cdr will make him a LOT better. With the s4 changes it did somewhat nerf him, even recently with the changes to spirit visage, it was a mild nerf to his play ability. So the new WotA will give him a much needed boost.


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