: Nasus Q stacking bug
[You may want to read this...](http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bugs/CF5EEDC8FF5AC1A896F517E2C7AE4650C472807F-how-to-report-bugs-on-the-pbe)
: Grasp of the Undying "stealing" 3% max HP implies that it does damage; it doesn't, but should.
It definitely needs a change. Whether that change is to make the mechanic match the description, or the description match the mechanic is up for debate, but either way they should match.
: Garen's base AD got increased and is now in the top 5 league with Cho and the 4 other Juggernauts. An item that can give a 30% of max HP shield, ~70 AD and 500 HP should be bad? If you do not utilize the new items, no wonder your damage is falling off. Also, try out armor/lvl and mr/lvl runes all over your runeset with armor marks and armor/lvl quints, enough resistances.
I do use scaling resistance runes, however building the new health items compares very poorly tank wise to a more typical resistance focused build. My damage isn't falling off at any stage of the game, however I can get far tankier and with more AD if I completely avoid the new items. It just feels odd that balance decisions are being made over Garen's kit when the items causing these balance changes don't feel remotely close to core items.
: Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread
After playing Garen a bit more I feel I'm better equipped to give feedback than I was initially. His kit feels like it's coming together in a fantastic way, and so I honestly don't have much to say about it. However itemization seems like a big issue. Garen has always run off of resistances. Back in the day his free resistances allowed him to heavily focus on damage, and after that his focus was on high late game resistances. This push to introduce more health items into his typical build feels like a bad move, and will mostly be ignored. Yes, his passive scales well with health, but his passive is also an out of combat effect. This push for health items is essentially a push for building non-combat stats on Garen. His W does not provide the late game power it did, and definitely doesn't match up against the old one, so building more than a single health item will leave Garen lacking in resistances against any team with a proper damage type spread. And on top of this the only new item Garen can really make use of is Dreadnaught's Plate. The old Hydra only worked in fringe cases, and only because of the added sustain. The new Hydra does not have the sustain needed to make it even somewhat viable as anything but a situational purchase in the super late game. Sterak's Gage, on the other hand does not even feel like an offensive item. Garen's base damage just isn't good enough to make it a replacement to any of his staple items. Quite honestly it's better to buy a Sunfire Cape for it's damage than Sterak's Gage, as it has armor, typically better damage, gives Garen access to AoE magic damage, and only has 50 less health for 50g more. Now don't get me wrong, I do like the new items, however as a long time player of bruiser Garen (not fighter Garen, which might actually do better due to the ratio changes) it doesn't feel as if Garen should be recieving balance changes based on these items. They put him in a place where his tank falls off of a cliff late game, and these are supposed to be tanky items! Maybe my words will move you to rethink a few things, but maybe they won't. At the very least it would make me happy to see Sterak's Gage removed from the recommended items page. No one who requires the recommended items page should be building that item.
: WHAT? LIKE... WHAT!? I REALLY, REALLY hope you are being sarcastic...
No sarcasm here. I legitimately like how the Garen changes work. Not all of them of course (early game E feels horrid) but overall I like it.
: Can we not do this Juggernaut Idea? Like PLEASE
Why do you not like the Garen changes so much? I've played Garen since season 1 and I am very excited to see these changes go live.
: Wait until people build it on Garen with Spirit visage. You will literally never have to base again
Actually Darius is getting higher levels of regen than Garen. Garen just cannot afford to get so many health items if he wants to remain useful, where as Darius safely can.
: I would say try the changes out right now instead of just trusting. If you're a Garen main, you are going to feel really, really strange.
You called that right... Low level E just feels bad, like real bad. The damage ticks are just way too slow compared to what I've known for literal years. It really starts feeling good later on, but it's still just off. I can literally time out each tick of the spin in my head as it is on live due to how iconic it is to me, however this is not something I'm going to lose sleep over. I'll get used to it eventually. And the ult... thing... feels a bit too random for me. I spent my last game running back and forth across the map and either not getting into a good ganking position before the enemy was out of range (backed after killing, or dead) or it had changed to someone else. The bonus damage on E feels great, and the ult damage is amazing, but the auto attack damage might as well not even be there. Surprisingly the Q actually feels stronger. I don't know if they changed the ratio or not (doesn't seem like it above) but it feels so much stronger than on the live servers. It might just be with me experimenting with items and skill paths however. W feels exactly the same, as well as his passive. I know that's not really feedback, but during play I've noticed no change from it. Well done. As for the items I'm not a fan. Against squishy targets the new items are amazing of course, however against someone in a lane situation they are a clear noob trap. Garen needs resistances now more than ever, and while he does fine early/mid game with health items he falls off of a cliff come late game. Depending on how the items get changed from now until they hit live Garen might need some extra work done on his W, or else these items just don't seem like they will work. The next game I play I'm going back to my usual live Garen build to see if that feels any better.
: Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread
As a Garen main since season 1 a few of these changes really worried me, however after reading through all your replies here I feel like I understand why they were made. The W resistance stacking is definitely going to need some tweaking, and the silence nerf does still worry me, but I definitely trust you guys to make Garen feel right by the time these changes go live. Keep up the good work!
Rioter Comments
: To limit that you could say you can only buy it if you have Exhaust, CV or Clarity (just an example). Because I already quiver when I hear a top lane Lee could now buy Sightstone {{item:2049}} .
Some supports take ignite or heal though. It's not quite as easy to limit it based on a summoner spell. If it did require limiting like this it should be tied to the gold income items instead. I'd rather not see such a limit, but that's just my own opinion.
: Could Sightstone have a stat enchantment mechanic similar to Machete?
If it had numbers like you've suggested (or maybe even better) I'd be getting it as a must have item on my top laners. I've always wanted to get a sightstone on them, but a single combat stat just isn't enough for me to justify it.
: I hear you. Our boy {{champion:20}} has a lot to like with this jungle, though!
If Nunu jungles does he get... wait for it... Double Buffs?
: Regarding Talon's "Cutthroat" Naming Issue...
While all these leg themed names are fine, I know I wouldn't be moving particularly fast if someone cut my throat.
Rioter Comments
: Sions Hp and why You done nerfed too hard.
If it was easier to stack health with his W I'd say I'm fine with it being lower, as it punishes bad farming. As it is however he just feels squishy compared to old sion.
: Could people please stop saying that there's no counterplay to it? ~~Zhonya's Hourglass invalidates the silence~~ and prevents Talon's burst combo. Quicksilver Sash, Mercurial Scimitar and Cleanse remove the silence as well. Using CC on Talon and killing him prevents some or all damage. As do shields and heals. Edit: A terrible mistake, I didn't realize that items (other than QSS/MS) cannot be activated while silenced. But it can be used after the silence is over though.
I didn't say there was no counterplay, it's just that said counterplay is rather inefficient. QSS is very rare on a carry or assassin, and almost no one takes Cleanse. Sure they could use these, but they are not effective on the given roles and are too easily baited.
: Talon's silence removal I don't truly understand though. LeBlanc and Kassadin could jump in, deal damage and jump back out with no retaliation. Talon can't really do this, he has to walk back out. And although Soraka was able to deal free harass, her damage output was reduced and high mana costs counter this. The recent PBE silence nerfs I find are unnecessary atm. Also, it would be nice to know what Riot think about silences since this cc and assassins are getting changed mostly atm.
The problem with Talon was that he could silence an enemy and deal 100% of their health in damage before that silence ran out. It wouldn't matter how many escapes your champion has if you can't use them while Talon is on top of you.
: Silence
My understanding of their position on silence is that many silencing abilities are essentially free harass. You hit your opponent with it, and they cannot respond due to being silenced. Kassadin and LeBlanc had too much freedom to poke you down while you were unable to respond. Talon could literally 100-0 a squishy champ during the silence duration. Soraka had a similar situation to Kassadin and LeBlanc, but with the damage being removed from her E it is no longer a harassment ability The two silences that have yet to be touched are short range and require getting into a possibly dangerous position (Garen's Q and Cho'Gath's W). Silence is a powerful tool, and should either come with a cost for it's power or it should only be a silence with nothing else attached.
: Never Received RP or IP
Mine showed up after I played a game. I guess getting more IP forced it to update.
: We're not out to replace Dominion here, this is our next featured game mode!
That's a pity to hear. Dominion is fun and all but it doesn't stand the test of time as well as SR does. Would be a nice change.


Level 30 (PBE)
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