: Not a support player, but a jungler mostly and have used top/mid/adc as my off roles at differing points in time. I completely agree, esp with how powerful dragons are adding to the priority I need to put bot lane and how far you can fall behind off a gank or two I find more consistently than not supports are 2, 3 or even 4 levels down even when they are doing well. However I'm not sure how to fix this. Adding XP generation would only create abuse cases for late game mid laners who want to hit level 18 before anyone else. Tribute procs to poke the enemy out of lane, achieve lane control and just zone the enemy off cs into an xp lead. So I'll spitball -XP bonus from minions allys kill -Reduced penalty for sharing XP, similar to what bot lane Morde had but not as severe -Giving support items better scalings -Tailoring more support centric items for when you are ahead. Remember when they did the mage item rework and they hit mana? Flat mana is for mages and mana regen is for supports? Maybe we need a new distinction, like ____ for supports who are even/behind and _____ for supports who are ahead. Outside of Ardent, no real support item helps you push a lead. Closest is maybe Zekes, but that's still reliant less on your ability and more on someone elses. Now I'm not at all qualified to talk much about support, but as a jungler since the end of Season 3 I CAN talk about how gold/xp across the entire map can be abused. I feel like Riot backed themselves into a corner. While yes, the idea that 'sharing resources put you behind' is valid and a philosophy I agree with it does put pressure on the already starved role of support when they decide to nerf shared expirence. How they tackle this? I honestly don't know, but I hope they do something soon.
I think gating that XP generation behind the 1000 gold completion mark should be enough to deny other roles from abusing it, since purchasing a support item by a non support and farming while having it consistently will seriously hit the gold you generate from the minions. Being super efficient with your support item procs allows you to complete the 1000 gold point by the time around 15-18 minute mark. Penalty reduces the gold from a minyon down to even 3 by the time of minute 5-6 mark of constantly farming. That is such a big impact on gold income. Support items as you have mentioned are quite dull too. Redemption for example, despite being gold efficient without the active, has base health regen which is one of the lowest base stats in enchanter supports, so why it exists there? Tank/Engage supports are always better with Zeke/Knight's Vow/Solari anyways. Also, take ZEKE for example. Such a strong first item, can be considered a core item for Leona/Naut/TH/Rakan who want to be agressive and push their lead but has a specific Armor/Magic resist with no Hp that puts player in a weird position against heavy AP teams. Locket is on the other side of the spectrum, against heavy AD teams you are being punished for getting that 60 mr. Shield scales with bonus HP while HP on tank support items are quite rare, and no, redemption is not a tank support item nor shurelia. Knight's Vow has a terribly long cooldown of the active, locking you with your partner before it comes of CD. Any attemt to make a play elsewhere is punished because without the partner stats 1733 gold worth of stats for 2.2k. I would at least want it to have a small cooldown like 5-10 seconds not 90. Shurelya before the lastest change was one of my fav support items and I hate the current version. They removed movement speed, ap, nerfed the hp and added hp regen, which is useless on enchanter type of supports due to their fragile nature. I think we don't need "support items" aside from the starter item that we have and it is worth 1700ish gold when completed. Cooldown reduction is such a critical stat for supports I'd like to see added %20 cdr to the 3rd stage upgrade. trying to collect CDR with each purchase really slows down the support impact to the game. A soraka with this addition should make a choice about her item choices instead of trying to get every possible item with %healling/shielding power increase. Maybe support item when fully completed can grant extra gold and XP from takedowns? I dunno possibilities are endless.
Rioter Comments
: My general feedback: - RQ detonation lacks punch - W root and E particles just ... disappear without any kind of animation - Lack of recall wind down looks terrible - Concept art was looking much better and was poorly translated into the model - Her mantra'd form would rarely see the light of the day and should be utilized better
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Dawnbringer Karma!
At this point i feel like if it wasn't a charity skin our feedbacks would be considered and implemented. There are some wonderful ideas in the comments and we get nothing. You are not gonna make any money out of skin so why put extra effort on it right? Nice riot, nice.
: And it will still be worth the same as a 1350 skin!
All mythic skins have 1350 treatment. They have no special dialogues/interactions/transformations like legendaries. Just a new model/sfx/Vfx/recall. The skin is being sold for 1350 for charity, and it is a limited time offer. Please install the latest version of "logic"
: You overreact about facts, I'll sit back and watch, it's best to do. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Please do, that is best for the community
: > Spread the light! **Dawnbringer Karma** is set to be **1350 RP**. She's available until January 13, ------------------------------------------------------- > Also karma is going to be a mythic skin, "Hextech Skin Mythic skins are valued at **2450 RP**." Font: https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Champion_skin/All_skins You need to calm down! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
She will return as a gemstone skin, which is qualified as mythic
: {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
: > ALSO is there any way to make her mantra form last beyond using it? Because everytime I play Karma, the only time I DON'T use it instantly is when I'm waiting for cooldowns or waiting for an enemy to appear. And it just kinda rubs me wrong that such a beautiful design only lasts a second because of Karma's playstyle. This is part of Karma's gameplay if you play against her and she is shining you know she will use her ultimate at any time. Because of this, it is not possible to leave her always shining. This will confuse the players. > In comparison, consider Star Guardian Xayah's ult & uncorrupted form, or Dawnbringer Riven's ult. Hell I'd be happy even if it was on her recall. I just don't want it to go to waste? If that makes sense These skins you mentioned cost 1820, this skin from Karma will cost 1350 so there are certain limitations.
She still gives a huge sound information when you cast the ability which is far more than enough. No enemy player will be able to notice whether karma is mantra'd or not during the fog of war. Also karma is going to be a mythic skin, and it is for charity. What we ask is already in game nothing new in terms of model needed. You are just one of the guys who refuse anything from community.
: Concept art does not mean it will look the same, it is just a concept. Now you have recognized that what you have shown is concept art.
Tbh i have 0 concern if it is concept or high res model. That is not the point here by any means. You are the one that draw the attention to such useless topic. Everything is subject to change during development whether it is a model or drawing, the topic here is that, first version is far better than the current one and current is a huge downgrade in terms of epicness. There is a difference between not looking the same and being completely different in every department.
: Ornn Elderwood concept art from Riot Games: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKL8vEeVAAU-JH_?format=jpg Aatrox Victorius concept art from Riot Games: https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/022/166/829/large/natalie-pellmann-09-vict-aatrox-2.jpg?1574353569 Swain Hextec concept art from Riot Games: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKL8vEgUwAA-8mB?format=jpg So Karma Dawnbringer concept art from Riot Games: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/6UsH7Nxf4ZNfunZWqgpAnDdLCbk=/0x0:1600x952/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:1600x952):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19292166/Impact_Fund_DawnbringerKarma.png
These are all similar color palettes with themes. Karma has completely different color palette and model. Wings are tilted, tiara is different, eye/arm gloves are gone, dress is different with different color, shoes are gone, floating circle and wings are different color too. Both victorious aatrox and hextech swain look pretty much the same aside from very minor changes while karma is completely different. You only get to see the picture version when you press R and do nothing, which won't be the case when you are playing the game. This is just a completely different skin, mix between order of the lotus and conqueror.
: I think it's a concept art, just highly realistic and with the Summoner's Rift as background. Kinda like [this](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/ybqk55) for example. The VGU Karma concept example is from ~2012/2013, Riot likely made some changes since then x)
To my knowledge, it is a very high resolution in game model that is later rendered down to low resolution model for live version. It is actually a quite common practice in the gaming industry. [Here is the warden karma in the same format.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRXP0kQHjXhkGhOw1LZGkE-xR5LIHtwr0XLjLcGZ0R7lv1w_yoY) As your irelia link, gameplay version is majorly same with some rendering down of the resolution. However karma has huge changes that to me, looks completely different that the announced verson, maybe I was super hyped and dissapointed when I saw the current one, but Idk man.
: > [{quoted}](name=kör kedi,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=a2Kv9HGA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-26T08:15:01.158+0000) > > [This](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTlt-3qGcETfstA_02dlctFuZIhmONLoz-lUQQqiPvjyGaVHaFI) was what we were advertised and hyped up about with the preseason announcement video. > > However what we have currently is [this.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQNCBFjngsHq7PaQUmv8PWjNnviXTmfwYUR-0VwN8aKbD8rVm3k) This is one concept art. And concept art is different from how the skin looks inside the game, you can see how recently Aatrox looked and its concept art, even Swain's new skin is different because the concept will always be different inside the game. The tiara needs to be better worked out really. It is very strange!
It is not a concept art, it is an actual in game model. And it is activated while you press R. you can check. Check the beginning of [this](https://youtu.be/mgAGK-sqtbU) video. [This](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTBAhwC09p958t_x7oI8PtkHhPTrJk1LXhwg-dhIZcq8QuKgomn) is what concept art looks like.
: https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/client-new-features-feedback/a2Kv9HGA-pbe-bugs-feedback-thread-dawnbringer-karma
thank you, was not present while I opened the thread, posted there too.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Dawnbringer Karma!
[This](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTlt-3qGcETfstA_02dlctFuZIhmONLoz-lUQQqiPvjyGaVHaFI) was what we were advertised and hyped up about with the preseason announcement video. However what we have currently is [this.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQNCBFjngsHq7PaQUmv8PWjNnviXTmfwYUR-0VwN8aKbD8rVm3k) Her preview video shows that first picture is the Mantra activated version. The thing is, Karma does not spend time in her mantra activated form. All of the wonderful glow that we see in the first picture is lost in the gameplay within seconds. No matter how beautiful you make her during that phase it is not going to be visible. This is a problem across all karma skins but this is by far the most effected one. First of all my suggestion is to have us the first version as baseline, including the eye glow and glowing arms etc etc. This should solve many of the problems like floating tiara on her forehead(like other guy said, it looks like a pink moustache) and angled back wings that you currently show which are fundamentally different from what we have first seen. Then you can get crazier with effects during mantra to sell the quality and the special meaning of the skin even further to the audience. Edit: Also her current version has weird facial proportions in terms of eye/nose compared to the first announcement. If that is not an option, maybe give us a period of time to be still "Mantra'd" after we cast our empowered ability. this will give us more time to spend in that beautiful form which will solve other karma skins' splash art vs in game problem. Good players who constantly hit their abilities and weave in autos would be rewarded with more mantra version just like Solar/Lunar Eclipse Leona players who die less therefore spending more time in their transformed version. In terms of enemy readibility, she already quotes her mantra speech so keeping the mantra transform after the empowered ability shouldn't be an issue for the opponent, sounds are scientifically easier and faster to react than visuals anyways. My personal wish, although I hope any of the two suggestions that I made would be even read by you guys, let alone taken into consideration, to have both of my suggestions merged and applied at the same time. Karma has no "cool" moments in her gameplay kit sadly, in terms of visuals. She needs to consistently perform well to defeat her opponents and keeping the mantra transform for a duration would not only help this skin's case, it will also reward players who do well and give us an eye candy for our efforts and show other players around that, this karma is good, look at her she is always mantra'd. Thank you for your time, take care and good luck.
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kör kedi

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