: Gathered LeBlanc Community Feedback
I still think the passive delay shit is far too long. There's no reliable way for you to crap on your lane opponent. Also, the passive should count toward Thunderlord's.
: Lethality Info
Why was Lethality nerfed across the board? It's already a shitty stat, now you're giving no assassin reason to buy it. Hell, just getting a Cleaver and building flat AD seems better than all of these 'gimmick' items.
: [Assassins] - Mini Updates Discussion
Really concerned about this update. I just don't see how these are going to make an assassin meta again. I already made a post about this, but I'll TL;DR it here. Mages like Viktor and Syndra are legit better versions of assassins. Also, Ghost covers up any mobility weakness that these mages have. Ghost needs significant nerfs, mages need nerfs, and assassins need to not be shit in lane, otherwise they just get bullied to the point where they have no kill pressure. Lastly, this concept of 'delayed' assassination completely kills the viability of assassins in any elo above bronze/low silver. They need to be much faster than they are right now (LB is a big case, make the passive like .5 seconds). Also, to any salty bronzies that bitch about getting oneshot. There's a reason assassins are much weaker in high elo, it's called people not being idiots. Just shut up and git gud.
: Sooo... is no one going to talk about how Rengar is the most disgusting rework I have ever seen?
We need some assassins to be good you know... To be honest, more of the PBE testers should be high elo, so bronze/silver players don't ruin this game. Assassins right now are extremely underpowered. This update is just making them even more underpowered. People were bitching about being oneshot by a LB when they're probably asking for it by solo split pushing past river on Ashe with no vision. There's a big piece of counterplay to all of this: Git gud.
: Ive cried about this many times already.... they arent ganna fix it bro... sorry
So Riot have no interest in fixing the degenerate mid meta that we have right now? Seems like this update is just going to make it so assassins are never viable in competitive/high elo ever again.
Rioter Comments
: Lethality Info
Honestly, Lethality kind of forces AD assassins to buy all three of the Lethality items, or it's not effective. Furthermore, you can't really snowball that much because it doesn't do enough early game. This is such an overreaction to the whole "snowballing" issue. There's no more 1 item powerspike for the AD assassin champions. This spike came from Ghostblade's 20 flat armor penetration, would give them 38 flat armor pen (assuming Level 10, 5 points in Precision, and 12 armor pen from marks). This was the point where any AD assassin was strong. Now, they don't have any mid game. I worry this makes AD assassins as useless as a crit building ADC such as Sivir, not coming online until 30 minutes/3 items. Snowballing is a fundamental part of the assassin class, and there is none of it right now for AD assassins. They no longer have a reliable powerspike with which to take over the game for their team.
: Lethality Info
Youmuu really needs more lethality, also the whole system is kinda shitty. It really gimps AD assassins midgame because their spike isn't nearly as strong.
: **Hey 20thCenturyFaux!** As a LeBlanc (almost) one trick I was happy to see some changes to her kit after all these years, bringing some refreshing gameplay and I have to say you did a great job! After playtesting her a while on the PBE I'm a bit concerned tho that her passive proc cooldown of 1.5 seconds is a bit too high. I'm aware that it's supposed to be a tool that's not instantly available but in my opinion it should be cut down to one second which is more than enough time to react. In it's current state it's making her gameplay feel different, a lot. It's hard to describe to someone who doesn't play her frequently and with passion and this might be an exaggeration but the, for such a highly mobile Assassin, long time frame of 1.5 seconds makes her core gameplay not feel like LeBlanc anymore. LeBlanc used to be all about speed which made her gameplay very fluent and thus very fun. It was super intense and every single move, every single spell counted. It was a matter of milliseconds. I understand that it had to be (rightfully) slowed down, such as the W snap back delay, but in its current state playing the new LeBlanc almost **feels**, and I can't empathize it enough, like playing a new champion. Decisions no longer are a matter of milliseconds and what concerns me the most is that there's a lot of room for mistakes on both sides. Imagine you're laning vs. Viktor and the wave is pushed up to your side. Your cannon minion is dropping low and Viktor decides to overextend and go for the CS. With the old LeBlanc you gave him a very fast QW combo, punishing his overextension with half of his HP. Very efficient but probably too punishing, leaving Viktor with little to no chance to retaliate your combo. Although Viktor made a mistake he should still be able to fight back but the old LeBlanc didn't allow that. On the other hand with the new LeBlanc the Viktor would have an easy time in the exact same scenario. He goes up for the CS, you most likely W him to get your passive on him, but now you have to either wait 1.5 seconds in his minion wave to be able to proc your passive with your Q while he can freely attack you with plenty of time to get his Q shield ready or you jump back early which gives Viktor the oppertunity to walk out of your Q range, waiting for the mark to expire. What I'm trying to say is that you'll now either lose the trade or Viktor gets away unpunished which he clearly shouldn't. Assassins are there to punish such mistakes and with the 1.5 second passive that's not possible. There's **"too much"** time to "react". I put the "too much" and "react" in quotation marks because at this point it's not about reacting to LeBlanc anymore (no one needs 1.5 seconds to react; I've read that the average human reactiontime is around 276 milliseconds) but rather about making up for your mistakes, which shouldn't be the case. In the end Assassins should punish mistakes and especially missteps and LeBlanc clearly isn't able to do that the way she probably should. Btw is it intentional that her passive doesn't proc Thunderlords or a bug? I'd love to hear your feedback on this matter! Best Regards! PS: How is your name pronounced? o.O
The passive delay will make it nigh impossible to use in high ELO unless someone like fucking stuns your target. Riot have pandered too much to bronze/silver players who whine about getting oneshot when they're making obvious mistakes (like being alone without vision on the assassin). Git gud pls. Make the passive take maybe half a second or .75 seconds to prime so that LB has a chance at any level of play that isn't bronze/silver.
: [LeBlanc] Rework Impressions and Thoughts
I really feel like the passive priming time should be faster, since even the bots will just run away and you won't be able to proc it if you W onto someone... they pandered too much to bronze players. You can ONLY really guarantee a passive proc if you E them and then use W to keep the chain on.
: The passive only triggers if the target would give him more AD than he currently possesses from his current bonus. I think it's still pretty early to conclude if Zed is too weak when compared to the rest of the roster given how much change is occurring. For context, the Q ratio nerf was something I included for now because he was actually performing a bit too well in our internal testing. That being said, I will definitely be cognizant of how he is doing and have a few places I know I want to buff if he turns out to be too weak.
Okay, I remember it happening when my bonus was 0 though. Also, if you wouldn't mind, what buffs have you considered if Zed turns out to be too weak? For sure, he's on the weaker end of the assassins in this update.
: Thanks for the report, will look into this.
Okay, just watched Redmercy's gameplay. Does the target have to die in the three seconds the mark is on them? I think that may have been the case, but it's still worth looking into. However, Zed is still really bad compared to the other assassins. You are FORCED to ult the ADC 24/7, which means you lose a crap ton from killing any other target (read: AP mid lane opponent). Also I think the Q bonus AD ratio got nerfed to .85 from .9. He just doesn't have enough damage or dueling power, especially versus other assassins with invisibility. Zed's no longer really capable of dueling anymore. Hopefully, he will get some buffs because right now, he's trash. A couple of ideas: 1. I honestly think Zed should be killing carries, but right now he's restricted to AD carries. Maybe when his ult determines the 'strongest' foe, it should be the greater value of the person with the highest AD and the highest of maybe 33% total AP. Right now, if someone like a jungle Nidalee or an AP champion got really fed (off of roams/ganks, because the Zed isn't a feeder lmao) and/or the enemy ADC got dunked on in lane, you really don't have much snowball. Hell, you get weaker if your botlane dumps the enemy botlane 2v2. 2. Make the Duskblade true damage passive and/or true damage in general apply to Death Mark's 'pop' damage. 3. Make his ult give true sight of his target. He has no dueling potential vs Talon, Akali, or Kha'Zix right now. 4. Some damage buffs, because he seems a bit pidgeonholed item wise. You pretty much HAVE to buy all the 'Lethality' items in order to do any meaningful damage, which makes defensive/situational itemization really limited IMO. He probably got the least love out of all of the changed assassins, and it makes him glaringly weak compared to the rest of the assassin class.
: Opinions on the new assassin update (Very long and somewhat In depth)
I had the opposite impression of Zed. He felt quite underwhelming to me, overall nerf.
: You can't just nerf a balanced champion without giving something in return.
He actually got nerfed. Q bonus AD ratio down, E cooldown up, ult is buggy and does not nearly make up for removing the W AD boost.
: [Assassins] - Mini Updates Discussion
Zed is complete garbage at the moment from the Q nerf and the W/ult changes. He gets much less AD now as well. 10 base damage doesn't make up for this. Also, there is a bug with Zed's ult. It appears that you don't get the 'reaper of shadows' bonus AD unless an ally kills the target you mark. This happened in a Poro King game, and I was able to reproduce it in a bot game.
: [Assassins] LeBlanc Feedback Thread
Is there a way to set up a sigil mark on a backliner without committing to set up a oneshot combo? (PBE taking forever for me to download).
: This should be posted on Live Boards :3
: HMNNGGGHH zeds already been nerfed significantly without riot even trying its call "All hail the tank meta" and while i don't like zed i WANT MORE TANK KILLERS no anyway who can kill a tank nerfed. I mean i'm considering dropping league for a while, I'm tired of tanks I'm tired of slow paced games I'm tired of having a cinderhulk only jungle I'm tired of this stupid lack of variety; its only tanks tanks tanks, the varience was AWESOME when it was balancing but now its all about tankiness and utility, I'm tired of it... hoping in the end that they release a new tank buster or that ekko provides a way to make tanks less effective, wet noodle fights are just boring.
With any luck assassin meta will come back before worlds, at least that's what happened in Seasons 3 and 4.
: > [{quoted}](name=Necro,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=iyyfuYUU,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2015-05-16T22:08:37.698+0000) > > Because you are not nerfing his damage output or his cooldowns or his energy - this is a nerf to his mechanics. It is a big change to his playstyle. > Imagine if Lee Sin had to wait a second after using his q before he could e. > This would mean he couldn't do the "Inzec" play (core play for any lee sin main) anymore. > This is the level of nerf we are talking here. Don't compare Apples to Peaches. Lee Sin and Zed are on two completely different wavelengths. Zed does NOT have to try hard to get a kill, and most Zeds tend to go in on targets that they know they can kill without much danger anyway. How can you not see how toxic it is to be able to kill a squishy target when ALL FIVE of the enemy team are there, and they can't do anything about it because all you have to do is blow your load of cooldowns on said squishy, and then tap R to bounce out? How is that fair at all? They haven't nerfed Zed's play style, they've nerfed his ability to get kills he should NOT be getting without serious implications for himself. (Death or alot of damage)
> [{quoted}](name=Jbels,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=iyyfuYUU,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2015-05-18T16:19:10.602+0000) > > most Zeds tend to go in on targets that they know they can kill without much danger anyway. How can you not see how toxic it is to be able to kill a squishy target when ALL FIVE of the enemy team are there, and they can't do anything about it because all you have to do is blow your load of cooldowns on said squishy, and then tap R to bounce out? How is that fair at all? First off, ALL ASSASSINS will go in on a target when they know they can kill without much danger. Simple decision making. Second, Zed is not faceroll at all (case and point, winrate), you have a LOT to consider when you go in for your assassination (shadow placement, how much damage will my shurikens deal, can i proc my passive safely, do i have to use W shadow to gapclose, is there a shield/heal/ult that could save my target). Zed has SIGNIFICANT COUNTERPLAY in that unless he's fed out his mind, in which you have much bigger issues and probably didn't even TRY TO IMPLEMENT COUNTERPLAY, he takes THREE SECONDS to do his job. Compare this to Talon or god forbid LeBlanc, who are able to kill their target in much less time, which means less counterplay. Third, Zed was already predictable before the nerf. **When Zed ults, you would know exactly where and when he will be located at a point in time, when he shows up right behind you. You can time a CC spell (most notable examples being Ori ult and Ahri charm, but can be other skills like Thresh hook) so that it would hit Zed the instant he comes out of his ultimate. This nerf was pretty much a "lets satiate the circlejerk of all the whiny low elo kids who are just so bad at the game they can't execute counterplay." **
Rioter Comments
: Where are the zed nerfz i saw Azoh come on stream to vertigal and talk about that and he did a video but i dont see notes about zed on R changes
It wasn't documented. It's on Shakarez's twitter. https://mobile.twitter.com/Shakarez/status/597695362883784704 Sorry for mobile link. I went on the PBE, this change does exist and the tool tip says nothing.
Rioter Comments


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