: When he has 2 spinning axes he drops both of it, if he doesn't hit anything. So if he can only drop one axe while having 2 spinning axes instead of both that would be awesome. Sorry if it's too confusing, it's hard to explain.
If I'm getting this right, you're saying the axes expire 1 at a time instead of both at once. Example: Current: Draven has 2 axes. He waits 6 seconds. Draven now has 0 axes. DYNO's suggestion: Draven has 2 axes. He waits 6 seconds. Draven now has 1 axe.
: Yep, so we definitely agree on the problem then. But what for a solution? I still think replacing damage with sustain is the best way to go. He can still win drawn out fights, but he wont 1v3 burst everyone down. Also, if they DID put the stacking mechanic back on Q, it would definitely have good reason to max first, not just for damage, but for speed and resistance. E maxing would be only for slow amount, and since the heal I propose is % missing health base, it already scales with HP, so it would encourage the tankier playstyle that RIOT seems to want him to have. Either way, I hope they fix him in a way that doesn't involve gutting him to being useless. I was playing him the other day with the hot fixes, and I was already losing some 1v1's in my zone that before I could win pretty easily. Only time will tell I guess.
Really the only viable ways I see to fix his chain CC are: -increase E cooldown -get rid of some or all of the E cdr-on-cc The issue with that is it also removes a huge part of his stickiness. I warned everyone that too much power on his E was a bad idea
: Yeah, I can see how ya feel, I just think that Skarner's sustained damage is enough of a threat with the %AD scaling, that you REALLY don't need the upfront burst on the E, or as much on the R. The heal on E would keep him viable in lane, as he is pretty viable in lane right now as is, since you get that one second of mana regen every time you proc a stun. I just think moving him into sustained fighter tank would actually be something you can balance. Right now, I don't think you can balance him without nerfing him into oblivion, which I fear is the route they will take.
Certainly, his Q is a hefty amount of sustained damage, but the ranking scaling on the ability just isn't enough of an incentive to max it over the larger amounts of burst and utility gained from ranking the E. I actually think he's decent in lane at the moment (definitely not the best, but it's easy to capitalize on over-confident opponents). His E can be capitalized on by shooting it through minions to hit the opponent (something I always liked about his old E) and then running through the wave proccing the stun on minions to quickly get to his opponent and stun them. I especially like him in mid lane, because he can provide incredible support to his jungler, and if the jungler maintains control over the river crystals, Skarner can roam quite quickly and effectively (not to mention he's almost always in position for dragon). As for being unable to balance him without nerfing his numbers into oblivion, I completely agree. The issue, as I've pointed out before, is his chain CC makes it completely unrealistic to budget any amount of power to his numbers.
: What I think Should be done about Skarner
Somehow I don't think they are planning to bring back the Q stacking mechanic. **As to the chain CC being the real issue here, I 100% agree.** Skarner having that much up-front hard CC means that he can't have any power budgeted to the other parts of his kit without being completely overpowered. His E needs some sort of mechanic on it that allows it to play more nicely with his ult without making it detrimental to use because it would seal off his ult or vice versa. The other issue is that the E right now is outshining the Q by too much. The Q is REALLY strong, but the power is more hidden and not as present without stats. I'd actually really like them to take a Kha'zix-like approach to creating different sorts of value for deciding to max Q over E, or E over Q. (Sustained damage vs burst/healing?) I also really agree that the mana regen inside the crystal shrines is a bit ridiculous, yeah, it's his home territory, blah blah blah, but he doesn't need THAT much. As for the E change you suggested, I do like the idea of putting the heal back on it, but I also like the quick burst of damage it provides if you proc it. The E makes him almost viable in lane, and a few changes to it and the Q would probably make the E max the way to go for lane Skarner, but Q max the way to go for jungle skarner.
: Doesn't sounds like you even tried him yet. his jungle clear is super good now with this and he can solo dragon quite soon. I think his dueling potential is quite high right now considering the fact that his stun is easier to proc (if you land your E ofc) and takes less time. also, he gets his passive bonuses when he stuns an enemy, so that helps him trade too. his Q has currently 2.5 seconds CD without cdr and it gets reduced by 1(!) second every AA against champions. his W scales off max hp so if you go tanky with him (and yo should) you are getting a great amount of shield. the changes are good, and please dont tell us your opinion before you actually see it in action or trying it yourself. because just reading about it doesnt do much to the overall evaluation.
First off, he's perfectly entitled to his opinion on Skarner's thematic aspect, whether or not he actually tries Skarner on PBE. Secondly, his dueling potential is not all that high outside of the zone. His stun was just as easy to proc in a duel before (arguably easier because you couldn't simply miss a skillshot), since during a duel he tended to be right on top of whoever he was fighting. Now, unless you hit the E, you can forget about being right on top of anyone who can kite decently well. The Q buff is good for damage, but if you look at the changes, it's just a little better than the original (not previous, but original) Q+passive. His W scaling change completely changes his playstyle, as it forces him to build to look tanky (buying HP) rather than the previously optimal resist + cdr stacking to take advantage of his W's base values and him become deceptively tanky, which was great for making plays and baiting people onto him. Not to mention, if you compare his current reworked W to his original W+passive, you'll see that it was actually his original W+passive that made him such a great duelist and this is lacking on the current W. With the original W+passive, it punished anyone for engaging in extended fights by making him tankier and boosting his DPS, since it became harder and harder to break his repeated shields as you used all your cooldowns, and he began to get his shield up in shorter and shorter amounts of time as he fought you due to the attack speed from the shield not being broken. The ultimate is also affected by these continuous reworks. With the original Skarner, a good balance between jungling and ganking was required to fully utilize his ult due to his passive. Also, there was nothing that felt better than getting your ult back at JUST the right time in a fight due to his passive. His ult was more about utility before, and had more meaningful choices. With the original Skarner, you didn't use his ult in a 1v2 because it decreased his survivability from his passive, W, and E. With the previous Skarner, you timed his ult to receive a nice boost to your dueling power by getting a bunch of free damage off. This Skarner? Just ult them whenever the positioning is right or whenever you feel like it. Or maybe just when they're about to get away (something not really possible with previous Skarners). The original Skarner was not a juggernaut, he was a medium fighter somewhere in between Jax and Irelia in terms of builds- he COULD build either full damage or full tank, but was best when used with a mix of both. Not to mention he actually had a few more completely different build paths before, rather than a bunch of variations on the same one. The previous Skarner began as a really light fighter and became a fairly heavy fighter (but not as heavy as a juggernaut) when the passive rework kicked in due to the new passive, removal of his old passive, and huge cut to his ratios. The changes can NOT be labeled as solely good, since although it updates him for the current meta, it also once again strips away part of his identity (of which there isn't all that much left)- most of his kit is now a relic to the original Skarner with effects that no longer match his original cohesion. His kit is all over the place. And this is coming from someone who HAS tested this rework of Skarner.
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
I know you're on a schedule, but Skarner isn't ready yet. Maybe you being on a schedule is the only reason you were willing to make changes so easily, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. But releasing Skarner in his current state will not end well. It's not as bad as last time, but he is still heavily binary and could end up way too strong or way too weak on live. 1-2 days of testing isn't enough for each change. Last time we had months and it still ended up badly
: Upcoming Pathfinding Changes
Sometimes if you want to walk past minions but there are too many of them, clicking multiple times causes your champ to try to walk around the minions... which is a perfectly viable solution to that, except that it keeps changing the direction it wants to go, so you effectively can't pass the minions because you're too busy walking back and forth.
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
The capture minigame isn't that fun, not to mention it makes him heavily feast or fanime. The power in it is great, don't get me wrong, but the overall design of the minigame makes it not that fun- **either you win, and have a blast, or you lose, and feel bad about losing.** The changes with the E help a lot, but it don't fully cover it, and I already expressed my views on putting too much of the rest of his kit's power budget on his E. The issue isn't that his minigame is contestable- Gangplank's minigame of kegs is contestable, and still quite fun- but that it's too BIG. It's not really a minigame anymore, it's more of a repeatable quest. I don't know exactly what needs to be done to fix it, but you certainly can't fix it with simple things like making zones uncapturable for a specific amount of time. It needs a more fundamental change.
: He's not **incredibly** powerful. Not by a long ways. Strong, yes. VERY strong, maybe. But only if he gets to keep his zones up. If the opponents decide to shut you down early, your game will be miserable. Trust me. Right now, the zones allow for some great clear speed and safety. Its also nice being able to take E at level 3 and not feel like Im hurting myself. Play a game as skarner outside of the jungle, or against a team that is constantly shutting down your zones. You will feel a big difference.
This is EXACTLY what I've been saying about the capturability of his zones making him too binary. Him being too binary was one of the reasons for the original rework, after all. And to make matters worse, his feast/famine is more dependent on his team than on anything he can do individually, because he can't snowball his team as easily due to his ganks being heavily dependent on his ult, but his control over the map is heavily dependent on his team being both willing AND able to contest his shrines.
: > [{quoted}](name=encyclopedea,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=d2bmpMif,comment-id=0094000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-07T06:55:51.846+0000) > > If I'm reading the changes correctly, stunning multiple targets at the same time would not increase the Crystal Charge buff duration, because it says "during the duration of the disable". > > Anyway, I'd be all for making the Q have unique interactions with E'd targets, except that I don't think Skarner should be so reliant on a single skillshot. He really shouldn't be an "oops I missed a skillshot, better come back after wolves" jungler like Lee Sin or Elise I added support for this by mentioning you in a post I made to Repertoir.
I think you slightly misunderstood what I'm saying. Making landing the E a prerequisite to release his power is a bad idea because it makes him almost completely reliant on landing a single skillshot (on a decently long CD). Even if you technically add power to his Q by making it do stuff when it hits a target that is afflicted by Crystal Venom (applied ONLY by E), landing the E is still a prerequisite, and as such, the added power is really going to the E. The skillshot provided by the E should be optimization power, not the only key to unleashing his power. Even Lee Sin (the success of whose ganks are often determined by whether he lands a Q or not) has a fallback of a slow on his E (plus his ult) in the case that he misses a Q. Putting this much power on Skarner's E doesn't allow him any fallback besides his ult.
: I personally think it would not be overly powerful, as it would still only be REALLY stong, if the enemies all stood next to eachother. Im looking at ganks and your Q has just a bit more range than your auto. As your only stun, giving it a bit more reliability would be nice. With the new buffs to E, it means outside of your zone, you MIGHT get your passive for a few seconds all together, which could be good or bad. Mostly good though. Chase would be just a little bit better if I didnt have to stop to AA the minion in my way to get my speed buff to chase you. Overall, to me it feels more like a QoL change really.
If I'm reading the changes correctly, stunning multiple targets at the same time would not increase the Crystal Charge buff duration, because it says "during the duration of the disable". Anyway, I'd be all for making the Q have unique interactions with E'd targets, except that I don't think Skarner should be so reliant on a single skillshot. He really shouldn't be an "oops I missed a skillshot, better come back after wolves" jungler like Lee Sin or Elise
: Random question, would it be too much to ask to let his Q proc his E now?
That's something I thought about too, but an easily accessable AOE stun would probably be too harsh on the power budget lol. That said, I do like the idea of a QE interaction, maybe bring back the old heal if he has the crystal charge buff? Of course, the biggest issue with all of these changes is it's making him WAY too reliant on a single skillshot. Skarner shouldn't be reliant on a single skillshot, that's definitely not his style
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
I apologize for being a bit hasty in condemning this rework. I and many of the other Skarner fans that remember the first rework are a just a little touch about it, and the instant that this started to look like it would go the same way, we reacted vehemently. That said, you do seem to be listening to us this time around, and aren't afraid to make a few mechanical changes, so I'm willing to give you a chance at the very least. The E change is interesting (can't wait to test that one on PBE), but I do still have concerns over capturing mechanic making Skarner very feast or famine, depending on how his team is doing. Also, the Crystal Venom, Crystal Energy, and Crystal Charge could get confusing- so many buffs, such similar names. would there be a way to maybe make them interact or consolidate them for clarity? One last thing (for now)- the E changes make Skarner seem to excel more in a larger fight rather than a skirmishing duel. Is there a way you might consider giving him a way to snowball through a fight's length rather than front-loading it with an easily triggered buff on his E?
: This design is well thought but poorly addressed, and still does not make sense, why should the Crystal Vanguard became a Watchdog of jungle? And anyway the spires does not gave him that much power consider of its small radius, if riot really want this passive to work, at least Skarner should be able to hold the passive that the spire gave for several minutes outside of its radius, currently he can not even clear two camps of the jungle with consistent game experience. If it could be like a charge station, which when Skarner enter and automatically receive a buff which apply the full strength to him for several minutes, that will make much more sense. That several minutes will allow Skarner to clean his jungle and charge one more time to do a Gank, while not allowing him to stick on lane too much (Isn't that what Riot is considering? ). Agree with others, gold gain to enemy for capturing is stupid, enemy capture already prevent Skarner gain his full strength in Jungle, that is already a big advantage for them ,no more should be given. Also, the slow and stun gave to E is actually became exclusive. In the current meta, Skarner's lane gank is about "Landing the E, gave DPS while the slow and apply two more passive, and then Stun, more DPS, and he is down" , but now because the E automatically apply the stun status to the enemy, when he trying to apply damage to the enemy, he won't even have chance to fully apply the damage to the enemy champion, because since mostly he ll just apply the stun during the slow, the old concept I described won't be able to work anymore. Why can't you just apply stun and a followed slow after the stun? It fit the idea of a "Venom" much more. I understand the idea of a "map mechanic champion passive", but the design on Skarner is just poor and poor and poor. You can't just let such design pass to current meta, this is not what Crystal Vanguard supposed to be.
The charging is a good idea if this version of Skarner is pushed through, and likewise to the stun then slow, although tying that much power to the E is still a bad idea.
: **I would like to start a petition**, a petition to show Riot that these changes are unjust to the players and that effectively what they are doing is killing a champion that we all know and love so my fellow Skarner players I ask of you comment on this raise this post Show them the wrath of what the player base can be! **Show them that we will not stand for this!** Show them that we want our bug back! **Show them that we want this to change!** Show them that we will do everything in our power to stop this change! Band together and show them what we will do when they _destroy_ our BUG!!!!!!! All that we can hope to do is make a stand against this lie masked as a buff to make our champion "Healthy" Skarners game health was never an issue Skarner was in a good place there was nothing wrong with him to go so far and do a complete 360 with his kit. We have to stand together because together we can have hope. We can have a chance to stop this heinous crime against us. Together is the only chance we have of showing them what we truly mean. If we don't band together here then there is nothing we can do to stop this from going live and that is a dark future that I don't want to see come to fruition. **SAVE SKARNER!**
Since they don't seem to be replying to PBE tester concerns, perhaps they'll listen to GD. Here's the discussion I made there: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/Rn08mEYX-we-miss-our-kind
: I've done enough QQing, time for some suggestions: 1st off, the shrines make Skarner feel a little flat, and also heavily snowbally/anti-snowbally. **Rather than a capture mechanic, how about a permanent area buff that gives Skarner a VERY SLIGHT buff while on it, but if he does something, he can activate it to its full effect.** For example, Skarner gets a small movespeed buff and some extra health regen while in the area, but if he gets 3 Qs off on the same target (or spends his ult on someone inside a zone), the area is activated for as long as his Q is charged while he's in it. This would make Skarner less snowbally, and, because it's more situational, allow you to add more power into it (remember Yasuo's ult situational/power balance?). And G-d help you if you interrupt Skarner while he's in the middle of a camp. (NEUTRAL OBJECTIVE CONTROL) To complement that, given that it IS much more situational, **how about allowing Skarner players to get the full unescapable predator fantasy while inside an active zone** (see previous suggestion for what constitutes an active zone). I'm talking give him his perma-slow back (just inside the zone, ofc), make them REGRET getting close enough to be dragged into his domain (IRL scorpion style). More movespeed, more damage, hard to run from (but not quite impossible- if you use a movement ability to get out of the zone, you're free). And the last suggestion is to **give Skarner some lane pressure by creating zones just off to the side of lanes**. This isn't about ganking. This is about counter-ganking. This Skarner is now about CONTROLLING the jungle, and that includes keeping his lanes safe from the enemy jungler. While he might not be able to gank as effectively as other junglers, this change would allow him to at the very least keep that difference in ganking power to a minimum. Provided he's there when you are, of course. The key thing here is that Skarner doesn't have much map mobility compared to say, Rek-Sai or Lee Sin. That means he has to act intelligently, aggressively warding to keep knowledge of the enemy jungler in order to press his situational advantages and find favorable fights.
One last thing I might add is to make Skarner's team's turrets give the same buffs in their range. That makes him much more valuable in fights where the enemy dives his team's area of control. **It would also keep lane Skarner fairly viable.** And if he loses the turret, he loses the buff, so he can't simply have huge pressure over all of the map all the time. However, it COULD be problematic to give him that much presence over the map.
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
I've done enough QQing, time for some suggestions: 1st off, the shrines make Skarner feel a little flat, and also heavily snowbally/anti-snowbally. **Rather than a capture mechanic, how about a permanent area buff that gives Skarner a VERY SLIGHT buff while on it, but if he does something, he can activate it to its full effect.** For example, Skarner gets a small movespeed buff and some extra health regen while in the area, but if he gets 3 Qs off on the same target (or spends his ult on someone inside a zone), the area is activated for as long as his Q is charged while he's in it. This would make Skarner less snowbally, and, because it's more situational, allow you to add more power into it (remember Yasuo's ult situational/power balance?). And G-d help you if you interrupt Skarner while he's in the middle of a camp. (NEUTRAL OBJECTIVE CONTROL) To complement that, given that it IS much more situational, **how about allowing Skarner players to get the full unescapable predator fantasy while inside an active zone** (see previous suggestion for what constitutes an active zone). I'm talking give him his perma-slow back (just inside the zone, ofc), make them REGRET getting close enough to be dragged into his domain (IRL scorpion style). More movespeed, more damage, hard to run from (but not quite impossible- if you use a movement ability to get out of the zone, you're free). And the last suggestion is to **give Skarner some lane pressure by creating zones just off to the side of lanes**. This isn't about ganking. This is about counter-ganking. This Skarner is now about CONTROLLING the jungle, and that includes keeping his lanes safe from the enemy jungler. While he might not be able to gank as effectively as other junglers, this change would allow him to at the very least keep that difference in ganking power to a minimum. Provided he's there when you are, of course. The key thing here is that Skarner doesn't have much map mobility compared to say, Rek-Sai or Lee Sin. That means he has to act intelligently, aggressively warding to keep knowledge of the enemy jungler in order to press his situational advantages and find favorable fights.
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
> "I know for some out there, that that means reverting the whole package and what-not, and though you're free to deliver that feedback and have me read it, you also probably know that that type of change isn't going to happen at this point." History repeats itself.
: Holy shit, marry me, I love you. Someone who finally gets it, 4.10 had only one worthwhile change, movement speed on Q, if the problem was perma slows (though Ashe never had hers removed) then just give him movement speed. I so much miss not being forced to build tank in order to play this champion. The Trinity Force + Wits End combo was so effective on him and will always remain as my favorite item build in the game.
You seem to be a little outdated there, Statikk Shiv + Luden's Echo is more fun on him =P
: His first buff will take him much lower because his Q doesn't do any damage because of the 4.10 nerfs, which were made to compensate for that stupid passive, which is, I can't believe I'm saying this, MUCH BETTER THAN THIS NEW PASSIVE. I absolutely hated that inferior Braum passive from 4.10 but compared to this new one, oh god that Braum passive is just so much better. Needless to say Energize was the best passive of them all and you should look back to what made Skarner good rather than trying to reinvent him every season. Currently his clear is inferior due to the change of crystalizing sting, which means he takes more hits and I bet he can't even solo a buff at level 1. Which honestly I do as most of the junglers I play. Since leashes don't come every game, especially if you start a buff, teams don't like missing that first minion just so their jungler can have an easier/safer first clear.
He can solo a buff at lvl one. Takes 2 potions to do it and get out with half hp, but he can do it. I checked. Calm down a little, I'm just as ticked by this latest butchering of Skarner, but being this aggressive and not checking things before you post them will only make them not want to listen to us =(
: You just made me think of something, Skarner no longer has a passive on Howling Abyss, Crystal Scar, or Twisted Treeline, I already hated getting the nerfed piece of shit on ARAM when he got his last shitty passive, but now he won't even have a passive at all. I miss Energize.
Actually, RiotRepertoir stated earlier that the crystals will spawn in different places on every game mode/map (which could actually make it a lot stronger for Howling Abyss). That aside, glad to see someone who remembers the old Skarner and his awesomeness! Really, I think the best thing to do for Skarner would be to revert him to his original (pre-rework-1) state, then change the slow on his Q to the live movespeed buff and decrease the E cost. Then he could be viable in top as well, and his true identity- that of someone you don't want to fight for extended periods of time- would be restored.
: I hate the new passive in general because first it kills my the possibility of Skarner going top, and second **CRYSTALIZING STING WAS AWESOME.** lastly the new passive isn't fitting, is boring, and guts all of skarne's power.
Yeah, for some reason, they seem to absolutely abhor the idea of Skarner going somewhere other than jungle. The first rework made lane Skarner much less viable due to loss of sustain, and this one makes it completely unviable.
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
Just got back from a test session on PBE. I found a lot of issues: 1. Crystal placement- The positioning is mediocre at BEST for teamfights around jungle objectives. It also is janky around camps- for example, at red buff, you can't hit one of the little guys with your Q unless you're on the very edge of the crystal range (I'm talking just past the visual effect, where it's dubious that Skarner should even have the crystal buff). If you lure it out you can get it. But the little guys don't move so much. Also, if you want to get the movespeed while going through the jungle, you have to micromanage your pathing cause the range just barely clears walls. 2. Crystal buff power- The attack speed sucks early game. I lose more hp doing camps than with the live Skarner. And that's the camps IN RANGE of the crystal buff. It's probably also due to the Q-auto cooldown interaction being nerfed by half on anything but monsters. The mana regen is really nice. The movespeed buff is really nice. But the attackspeed buff? WW was attacking as fast or faster than me. And I lost that fight, with similar items AND positioning so that he was tanking red buff the whole time. (lvl 6) 3. Skarner feels TERRIBLE to play if you aren't standing on, or at least near, a shrine. -Ganking- If you don't have ult and your lane can't burst the enemy within 2 seconds, don't do it. You might be able to get them low, but you won't finish them off. Skarner has VERY little sticking power once he uses his E. Several times in my testing, ganks which would have been successful on live skarner weren't even close on this version of Skarner. -Dueling- Skarner has mediocre up front power at best. Once you get past the first 1-2 seconds of the fight, forget winning. You'll be lucky to make it out alive. And if you by some miracle do start winning, he has no way to keep up with a fleeing enemy, other than using his ult, which he had to use to win the fight in the first place, so it's on cooldown. -Teamfights- Skarner can lock down a player temporarily. After that, he walks around slapping people with a cooked noodle. You can easily ignore him the whole fight if you engage the rest of his team. 4. Early tankiness- he isn't. At all. Couple that with no damage, and you've got a recipe for extreme team reliance. 5. Speaking of team reliance- I'm just glad their team didn't invade my jungle at all. I had a hard enough time keeping dragon and baron crystals, even with mid and top constantly roaming to capture them back. 6. W changes make buildpath larger- You need more items to be tanky. Before, the high base on Skarner's shield meant that building CDR and resists made you very tanky, very fast, and deceptively so. Now, you need a bunch of items to get that tanky (although, you do get tankier at some point) That's all for this round of testing, I'll see about testing him out some more tomorrow.
: We wanted to give something to Skarner to optimize around other than just run at a guy. Adding potent zones of threat was our take on that for him. Also, I think there's a misunderstanding about how much potential gold these things give out as well, but I'll look into that to make sure they're not giving out too much.
Skarner DOES have optimization, but it's more nuanced. Keeping the Q buffs up, timing the shield, timing the ultimate, ult positioning, choosing when to switch targets for passive, choosing when to actually detonate the stun. With this change, he's losing half of those and gaining something that really doesn't fit very well thematically, and is much more difficult for him to truly take advantage of.
: > R - Impale > No longer deals bonus damage to targets with Crystal Venom That's a shame. That was one of the things that separated the good Skarners from the great ones.
The Q movespeed buff also was pretty big for that. A great Skarner would pass by minions during a gank to prime his Q and get extra movespeed.
: Q damage changes could use one of those a/b/c/d/e >>> f/g/h/i/j for a little better clarity
The Q needs a ton of cleanup. At this point its just a relic of things skarner used to have. The charging now makes even less sense than before.
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
I'm pretty sure we already had the discussion about stickiness on Skarner. Several times.
: Both are Unique passive: Phantom Hit, so they dont work together, when i tested it sated was the one that kept working.
Alright, I thought that passive name had looked familiar, but I didn't bother to check before the game, and it slipped my mind afterwards
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Riven deserves massive punishment for missing combos
Does anyone remember when everyone was QQing about Riot moving power from her health regen to her shield so she actually had to actively do something to win lane?
: I honestly feel that most Veigar players would rather not have this compensation for DFG removal. If the goal was to buff Veigar to make up for the loss of DFG, it's more of a nerf...
Remember when Skarner players asked for a straight nerf rather than the rework? This reminds me of that.
: But, why does it matter how much of it is from q? It isn't like the ap off q is different from the rest of his AP, it's all part of his total AP. It's not like Nasus' stacks where they boost the ability's damage directly, it just boosts his total AP. =P
I feel like making his Q AP visible to everyone would just be to make people feel good- "Our veigar stacks really well!" or "We really shut veigar down!" In any case, my previous response was just aimed at NIGHTMARISH4's "If you see his items, you could just do a little math and figure it out."
: I don't really know. If you see his items, you could just do a little math and figure it out. But yes, being able to see his stacks would be convenient, although the way his stacks work directly effect *all* of his abilities, so it's not as important as seeing as many stacks as a Nasus has on only his Q.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to try figuring out how much of Veigar's 1000 AP is Q stacks, and how much is the rabadons, hourglass, seraph's, other items, runes, and masteries in the middle of a game. The rabadons, runes, masteries, and seraph's make it a quite messy calculation to do in the middle of a game, and that takes your attention away from, say, not getting stunned and bursted instantly.
Rioter Comments
: I don't see why they would need to be removed. I'm talking about no more than a simple word or two. Less then kog'maw even and he only speaks when he emotes. But while kog'maw is childish Rek'Sai would sound more feral and strained. Like a beast trying to communicate with something that's not so bestial like any of the other void creatures.
I think that inserting just a strained word or two would be very cool- it would have to be an emote, possibly even just a specific taunt towards Malz or Kass, to that she would stop to say it, to show the effort she has to make to even communicate in a human tongue.
: Actually, I feel like the tank treads and chainsaws perfectly with the skin line! Battlecast as an aesthetic has always been harsh gunmetal, powered by diesel, featuring rough military-grade weaponry. Less lasers and fancy infiltration legs, more missiles and chainsaws. These aren't future tech (That would be the mecha skin line, the "good" robotic skin line to clash with Viktor's "evil" one), they are meant to be brutal and durable weapons of war.
Not really. The battlecast line only started to get like that recently, after about Vel'Koz. It's certainly more evil, blow them up, but it is by no means the tech of today. Viktor's creations should still be brutal and durable, but while also being advanced to the point of being close to magic. Skarner would fit it, but the big round red shield just doesn't work. It's too bulky and takes away from the stuff going on under it. Also, the chainsaw claws are certainly an interesting idea, but they weren't properly implemented. It makes his scorpion arms too much like human arms, especially because they are one thickness throughout.
Rioter Comments
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Battlecast Alpha Skarner!
The chainsaws don't work for me at all. He needs actual claws. And the tail looks too solid. Sorry, but I think the tail should be segmented and deadly looking, rather than a hunk of metal with a harpoon on the end. I can see where you're going with the dance animation, but you did your job too well. This combined with all the other factors make him into something that has the abilities of Skarner, but isn't even close to a scorpion. And where the heck did you find the helicopter animation. Just stop. I know people have said that Skarner is supposed to be the original battlecast, but he's too clunky even for that. I mean, I'd think that Viktor, with his mechanical laser hand, can do a little better than CHAINSAW ARMS and a solid metal tail.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Battlecast Alpha Skarner!
: Sion R Bug
Actually, I've done some testing and noticed ANYTIME you activate ult as Sion, your camera is locked (and you can't unlock it) to its position relative to Sion until the ult ends. So if your camera is centered on Sion and you activate ult, it remains centered on Sion until the ult ends. If you're offset from Sion when you activate ult, it remains the same amount offset from Sion throughout the ult. I haven't yet tested what happens if your camera is on the far side of the map when you ult and move towards that side of the map, due to continuous DCs
Rioter Comments
: [Doom Bots] Death Ray sound is too loud
If a bot gets it, it doesn't stop, even after the bot dies and gets a new passive.
: Skarner PBE Feedback/Bugs Thread
Did a small amount of testing on PBE, and I have to say, I like the way this is going. The movement speed on the Q is AMAZING, I almost feel like the old Skarner again! The passive is pretty good, and I really like the animation when you trigger the marks, but it does feel a little flat during the cooldown. Also, the E feels lackluster now that it deals next to no damage. I know it's mainly a CC oriented skill, but it would be nice to have some more feeling to it other than just a nice slow. Overall, this change seems to be a great step in the right direction, but there are still a few things that could be polished up. Since his damage got nerfed a LOT, I'd really like to see a change to his passive that is similar to Braum, where he deals a little extra damage during the cooldown on the passive. That way, he can keep punishing people that don't get to cover quickly. With the passive-ult interaction, and the ramp-up mechanic that is seen as core on Skarner, I think it would be interesting to, instead of just not applying the marks to a target during the cooldown, you lower the cap on the marks to 2 for that target, and have the target take +X% damage per mark from Skarner. That way, he can't proc the stun again during the cooldown, but it still feels interactive and he can partially prime it for after the cooldown expires. If he chooses to ult during the cooldown, he sacrifices that sustained damage boost for the small burst from the ultimate, but also has the option to withhold the ult and keep the damage boost if the target isn't going anywhere.
: (Suggestion) Maybe a special skin for people on PBE at the end of season 4?
Riot already explained why they can't do stuff like this, it has to do with not "paying" us. Any compensation can be seen as "payment", which can make things icky for them legally. I believe the explanation went something like that.
: Skarner PBE Feedback/Bugs Thread
I like the direction, but I'm worried that after you proc the stun, Skarner will feel kind of flat for 6 seconds unless he switches targets, which really isn't Skarner. Skarner is more about sticking to 1 or 2 targets, not a ton of AOE CC. Back on the topic of the 6 second CD, it would interact with his ultimate better if you allowed the stacks to be applied, but not detonated, after the stun proc, for one. Braum has a similar passive, and he gains extra damage to the target during his passive's "cooldown". You could do something similar with Skarner, or give him some other effect for hitting a target after the stun has been proced. I can't say for sure if this WILL be a problem until I test it, but I'm certainly worried about the possibility of this problem.
Rioter Comments
: Well Fine. If this version doesn't seem good, then here is something you would probably deem more fitting Passive: **Omnipotent Being**: Since Xerath is literall being of pure energy, he not only doesn't require mana, but cannot be killed. All of his spells have 0 cooldown Q: **Arcane Waves**: Xerath sends out a wave of pure energy, destroying all lesser beings in his presence. W: **Transcendence**: Xerath gains an infinite amount of AP, Magic Pen, Movespeed, and gold per 5 for 60 seconds E: **Soul Incantations**: Xerath targets an ally or enemy. If the target is an ally, Xerath imbues them with parts of his infinite power, making them invincible and have infinite AP and AD. If the target is an enemy, they are immediately destroyed, and have their death timer tripled R: **Wrath of the Gods**: Xerath uses all of his arcane energy to kill all players in the game other than him. The fallout from this spell also burns all players for 25% of their current health every second, down to 10 health.
actually, heres what you should do: Passive: Chained Being- Xerath deals half damage, but for every turret and champion that he kills or assists in, Xerath gains 20 stacks of Power. Every 40 stacks, Xerath spends these stacks to gain 10 AP, permanently. Q: Unchanneled Power- Xerath unleashes a wave of pure energy in front of him, dealing true damage to all targets hit. W: Arcane Vessel- Passive: Xerath gains 1 stack of Power every time he kills a minion. Active: Xerath consumes his current stacks of Power to deal magic damage per stack. E: Spark- Xerath nurtures his magic, temporarily gaining 1 AP per stack. If Xerath kills a minion during this time, he regenerates 5% of his health over 10 seconds. R: Avatar of Magic- Xerath absorbs the magic around him, temporarily transcending his bound form. During this time, Xerath is no longer limited by his passive, and generates double stacks. Additionally, Xerath's spells gain 5 damage per stack.
: Skarner Rework Back on PBE
I love how we all test Skarner a ton, give a lot of feedback, and we get nothing back. No explanations, nothing. And then, after we all point out the mana problems, the mana cost for his E goes UP. I was trying to be nice, but this is frankly ridiculous. Scruffy, stop working on 10 things at once and at least pretend to give us some good, focused work on the thing that is scheduled to be rolled out next.
: [Suggestion] Louder notification of member joining team builder
I don't know about the most recent Team Builder versions, but last time I tested it, the first time someone joined the team I ran out of my room to see who had broken into my house.
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encyclopedea

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