: New akali
Yeah, 2 seconds are a lot. I think the idea is that you need to stay in your W for those 2 seconds, since none can un-stealth you anymore.
: We tried a lot of weird ways to allow Kat more control over the Q dagger - even tried a vector cast on it! Ultimately it was untenable for Katarina since there is such a high demand on rapid button pressing and comboing due to her resets, which make complex inputs for single spells where minor errors in mouse accuracy can lead to completely failed spell casts a no go.
would it be possible to let the player target the point where he wants the dagger to end, and the skill activates only if there is an enemy unit within a certain range (250-300?) from that point, then works like normal (hits that unit first, bounces to other 2 units if possible), with the dagger landing where initially targeted? (btw, isn't that how her E works now?) If there are multiple enemy units within the range, it would suffice to establish a priority order like closer unit, but champions first
: [Assassins] Talon feedback thread
Only 2 things about his E: 1- Most of time i have no idea where i will land 2- Other than the red line telling me "you can't jump here yet" i'd also like some kind of graphic that would tell me how much time until i can jump over a wall again
: Do you imply her current ulti has no counterplay? Because it is literally the best "high risk, high reward" skill in the game. Kata has to sit still for 2.5 seconds in the middle of the enemy team, completely unprotected. She is literally in the MOST risky position she can get into. However if the enemies don't punish her as fast as possible... they will melt. This is the most balanced thing you can have. She is standing still RIGHT NEXT TO YOU - it's totally up to you to stop her. She might throw 2 daggers and instantly die, or she might pull it off and destroy your team. And if she pulls it off, there is nobody to blame but her enemies for not stopping her. They had *every chance* to do it.
I did no imply anything of that sort. In fact, i wasn't giving any sort of judgement about her current R. I was just saying: "hey, here is an idea. Of course, skills need some form of counterplay, and here is what form of counterplay you can have against this particular one". If anything, i think the skill i suggested may offer less counterplay than her current ult. Btw, i'm not even implying that my suggestiong would be better, i just wanted to share some random idea related to this discussion.
: [Assassins] Katarina Feedback Thread
I like her rework, feels very fun to use new Kata. Sometimes it also feels a bit clunky too, but maybe it's also because i have to play with high ping and i still need to get used to it. Overall, though, i think it's a very good rework. Now, about my personal feedback: i'll give you my impressions of her new kit, skill by skill: Passive: Just perfect, nothing to say Q: Damage is pretty luckluster, altough kata's kit overall damage definitely isn't. I guess you wanted to reduce her easy poke compared to her old Q, so now if you want to do some decent damage you HAVE to jump in. I'm fine with this decision; quite often the point seems to be to use your Q on something different from your main target just to set up the dagger, so damage isn't that important). Much more important is where the dagger lands: 350 units behind the 1st target. The point is that sometimes those 350 units behind feel just perfect, sometimes they feel really bad. I have control over it by choosing the 1st target, but my opponents know where it will land too. The key point here is to make it so that they will have enough time to react, but not so much that they will ALWAYS get far enough the landing point to avoid damage. Unfortunately i can't really give enough feedback on this. **_It would definitely be cool to be able to control where the landing point will be, instead of a fixed 350 units behind first target though. One way to do this could be: you target the spot where you want the dagger to land: if there is an enemy unit within X range (like... 250-300?), Kata throw the dagger that hits that unit first, then bounces like normal and ends to the point you targeted. If there are more opponents within the range, you just need to give some priority order. If there are no opponents, she just doesn't do anything, just like normal. Basically, instead of selecting your first target, you select where the dagger should end and the dagger gets thrown only if there is a target near that point_** W: Pretty cool skill. The main reason i think it's ok to have her poke damage nerfed is because now she actually has a way to go in AND then out without needing to kill someone. The damage of the daggers when you pick them up is very high, but it may be pretty hard to hit with them if the opponent is careful, and you take big risks to go pick them, so i guess it's ok. **_If you want to make her kit more flexible, you could consider letting the player decide the landing spot within a range. This would give more chances to the player, and compared to ward-jumping there would still be the delay before the dagger lands, plus you can make the range shorter. The added mobility and flexibility should probably be compensated by reducing her damage a bit, though._** E: I think it's perfectly ok. The idea of letting us control the position where we will land is pretty cool, but i find a bit hard to control it correctly when used on a fleeing enemy. In particular, i always end up landing behind him (as in the opposite direction where he's running to). Maybe i just need to get more practice and a lower ping, though. R: Same of old R, but with even better scaling. I like how i can pick up daggers without interrupting it. I think it's perfectly fine as it is (not talking about numbers, we will have to wait and see for those). Just 1 thing: i saw someone saying that old ult kind of feels out of place. Now, i think leaving it as it is it's ok. **_If you ever considered to completely change it, though, here is my suggestion: NEW R: "Katarina throws X daggers that scatter in a target area" The daggers don't do damage, just like your W. That way you basically set things up to make the best use of the rest of her kit. Since this post is already long enough, i won't talk about this here, but [you can read more of this here](http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/PoE6ORld-katarina-rework-ultimate-out-of-place?comment=0006)_** **_TL;DR:_** Very cool rework, i like it a lot. Would be cool to have more flexibility about where the daggers of your Q and/or W will land, altough that may require some damage nerf to complensate for it. R is ok as it is, but if you decide you want to rework that too, consider my suggestion (altough it may be difficult not to make it OP).
: Katarina Rework: ultimate out of place?
How about: "Katarina throws X daggers that scatter in a target area" Daggers don't do damage, they are just a set-up for her, pretty much like her W, but instead of landing on her position, they scatter in a designed area. That way, after they land, she can keep on jumping from dagger to dagger while decimating enemies. I think it would be more thematic with her new kit, but maybe a bit OP. To balance the skill, it should be decided a) how many daggers to throw b) how far they can be thrown from katarina (the range, basically) c) how big the area within they fall in should be It is a lot more dynamic then her current ult and may be harder to stop. However, counterplay would still be possible because a) there is some time between the moment she throw the daggers and the moment they land b) shunpo isn't completely resetted, so you can try to catch her between 2 jumps. However, with her current kit at lvl 16 she may be able to jump to fast which is why i think this ult would be OP. Feel free to suggest good ways to prevent this. A few things to notice: - she may be able to use it as an escape, too. I don't think it is too bad though, because she sacrifices her ult for that, and she still need to wait until the daggers land to be able to use them to escape, so it's not as fast as ward-jumping - damage on her daggers-pick up may be lowered to balance this ult and the whole kit as well
: @RiotRepertoir, the Quinn thread is pretty crowded, and I think I have some valuable feedback.
> It scales better This is what you said about her new passive. I just wanted to point out that it's not true: in fact, it's the other way around. The bonus damage of harrier has been changed to 50% total AD from [25 - 215] + 50% bonus AD. If you consider that 50% total AD = 50% base AD + 50% bonus AD It's quite obvious that you get the same damage from items, and the only difference is made by the base damage she has on live and the 50% base AD, which is a fixed stat anyway unless you buy sterak. Since her base AD at lvl 1 is 56 but you gain only a few AD at every level, Harrier's single proc in his PBE form is slighly stronger than what we have on live at lvl 1, and weaker at higher levels. The higher the level, the bigger the difference, so we can actually say that the current harrier scales better into late game than the pbe's one. Btw, at lvl 18 you lose about 165 damage per proc, which means that 3 procs of the new harrier will do more damage than 2 procs of old harrier only if she has at more than 560 bonus AD. With 4 procs of the new passive vs 2 of the old one, you need 230 bonus AD, with 5 it's 120 bonus AD. Of course since with critical chance and the Q changes she will proc her passive a lot more, so in the end she will have more sustained damage. I'm only saying this because i've seen people saying "wow, she can proc her passive 3 time on a row, that's ridicoulus, her damage will be huge compared to live"
: > Will her ult cost mana? Yes, but the cost goes down to 0 by rank 3. > how are her AD ratios? Probably somewhat comparable to Live, with Harrier potentially doing a bit less per proc in the early game and a bit more in the late game. > will she be able to stay a "assasin-type" champion? If your definition of "assassin-type" is duelist, less so. If your definition of "assassin-type" is more about burst damage, yes.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=PE1LJTOM,comment-id=002e0000,timestamp=2015-10-28T20:41:44.304+0000) > Probably somewhat comparable to Live, with Harrier potentially doing a bit less per proc in the early game and a bit more in the late game. Sorry, but how does harrier deal more damage per proc late game? The bonus damage of harrier has been changed to 25-50% total AD from [25 - 215] + 50% bonus AD. If we consider that 25-50% total AD = 25-50% base AD + 25-50% bonus AD we can easily compare the new passive with the old one, and **it's quite obvious that the damage per proc is lower at every stage of the match**. Am i wrong somewhere? Of course, now we can proc the passive more often, so probably that change is appropriate. However, since you specifically said "per proc"...

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