: Central Feedback Thread for Viktor Gameplay Update
So what exactly was the point of this thread? There was no 'discussion' with any Red post at all. He's going up on live. Not even a single reply other than that bug related one. Please don't make threads if you have no intention of replying, posting, and/or listening to it.
: Central Feedback Thread for Viktor Gameplay Update
Is there going to be any red response at all....
: The thing is that his E is particularly to strong on Live, since it does long range high AOE damage. They needed to cut some power to add it onto his passive, allowing him a larger power budget late game, where he lacked it. The Q on live is particularly the same , but don't be surprised if the shield values are increased. Remember that power should not be placed all on one ability, it makes the champion very binary.
I agree that a single ability shouldn't be the 'be all, end all', however, I do believe there should be a main ability that is the 'star of the show' so to speak. near all champions have this. xerath has the Q for example. Plus, it is supposed to be strong. It is a high cooldown, high cost, small hitbox, vector skillshot ability. It needs to have a reward for landing it. Otherwise what is point of picking him over any other mage? As a comparison, Ahri's Q does 280(70%ap) and half of which is true damage. Annie's E has 250(85%ap)+the aoe stun. Fizz's E does 270(75%ap)+invulnerability+aoe slow. Viktor's E does 250(70%ap)+30% dot with augment. Taking into consideration how easy it is to land the other abilities, Death Ray is not on par just yet. His unreliability is also one of the things that makes him never see any high tier/tournament level play. Because why pick him when you can pick far more reliable mages with more reward and less risk? I always thought the death ray was the 'main skill' that was cool and unique and i wanted to see it have something interesting done to it.
: You're still playing Viktor as a traditional mage, early game is where you have the ability to spam q and auto's and possibly get some early kills if you have a good jungle. Mid game is where Viktor becomes a very effective mobile, almost fighter like mage. I recommend upgrading the q augment first or second as it allows Viktor to constantly chase and do loads of damage. What I do is store one of Viktor's q's auto attack buffs, then include that saved up buff before the q auto combo. The scaling on a buffed auto, q, and another buffed auto with lich bane is over 1.5 ap scaling, which is insane considering it is happening in less then 2 seconds.
see theoretically this would be great, but realistically it will not work out that way. Viktor has an autoattack range of 525. Mid game if he has a lich bane, chances are the enemy will also have a decent ap item. At that point there is no way you want to be anywhere near 525 range against a mage. Most mid lane mages have long range harass, plus burst, plus hard cc. There is no way he will survive. Plus his shield is pathetically weak for him to be considered a fighter mage (his base stats and kit are not fighter type). Lets see how he will do against the commonly picked mid laners that are mages 1. Fizz- E the auto, get close, get killed by burst 2. Syndra- stunned, Q, ult, dead. if not, then stunned from far away 3. Xerath- dead from 500 miles away. there is no way viktor can do anything to xerath. no need for xerath to get close. 4. Ahri- has longer range, charm, mobility. 5. Lulu (if you count her)- hard slow, self buffs to run away, Q range damage 6. Orianna- hard slow, get anywhere near she will q+w+ult much farther than Viktor AA range 7. Ziggs- far longer range poke. 8. Twisted Fate- Instant target stun, mana return, long range wave clear, global vision/teleport. With lich bane he also offers a W+Q+AA combo with the same, if not, more burst. And takes down towers with W proc 9. Yasuo/Talon- Yasuo walls the auto, talon blink/silence. both will instantly burst Viktor down after that All of these mid laners have a combination of burst, range, escape, mobility, cc with a high amount of reliability. Now lets take what Viktor currently offers. 1. Q auto burst with 525 range and very low initial damage 2. Delayed non damaging slow/stun field 3. Mediocre damage high cooldown, high cost, small hitbox, vector skillshot E 4. Ult that breaks channels What part of him makes a fighter? His shield is laughable at best. Compare him to orianna. Her shield gives her 30 ar and mr and it lasts much longer. Plus her AAs enhance with her passive and stack. Viktor's shield- max 120(0.2ap). Orianna shield- 240(0.4ap)+30mr/ar. I bought Viktor on release and I absolutely love him and his original theme. When I first heard he had a sweet death ray, I loved it. I don't want him to be a crappy run of the mill mage who never sees much play. I want him to be a popular pick and be played in tournament play. His Death Ray is unique to him and such an awesome concept. I wish they would focus on that instead of a basic Q/aa idea. He'll turn into 'q/aa..run back. q/aa...run back...q/aa...run back' which is hardly any fun. Making the enemy worry and positioning yourself for that one sweet Death Ray hit was what made him fun and unique.
: Central Feedback Thread for Viktor Gameplay Update
Wait...ok so you nerfed his Q damage (his ONLY actual reliable high damage source), took out the proc on structures, and reduced the ap on the hex core? no offense, but this rework right now is a flat out big nerf to an already weak champion. There really needs to be a focus to his E instead of Q. there are plenty of AA enhanced mages already (heck orianna can chain trigger her aa with her passive)
: Central Feedback Thread for Viktor Gameplay Update
I absolutely hate that focus was taken away from his E. i've been playing him over and over, and he seems so boring now. That E was supposed to be so satisfying and rewarding....now its a flimsy little spell. E should be his main skill, not Q.
: > I feel he seems like a lower tier version of oriana right now. His E is my biggest concern. that is supposed to be his bread and butter skill but it feels so lackluster. What does it give you that other regular aoe abilities can't within the same cooldown limit? it has such a small hitbox plus its unlikely it will hit with the augment everytime due to delay explosion. I just don't feel as if the E is as good as it can be. For example, why pick him when you can have better poke/damage with ziggs q or xerath q? I think is another good way of picking this update apart. See, when I first saw that you augment all his abilities this is what I had in mind. Viktor would still be a great medium-to-long distance mage with his E as his main poke. If anyone got to close for comfort, simply lay down a grav-field as either your first line of defense or a way to better set up a kiting deathray. If your opponent however, managed to escape the rooting, you could use your augmented Q as a last resort to give you a good small speed boost to hopefully reposition yourself quickly along with a small shield to handle a percentage of the incoming damage (since they got through your defenses.) So my point here, and I believe a lot of us are coming to the conclusion of, is that this rework seems to shift his priority away from a medium-long range poke mage, to someone who is always spamming their Q and running away at close range. To me, Viktor both thematically and play-style seems like he should stay at that good medium to long range style. One of the problems I ran into is that when Im dependent on his Q so much, I have to get in close to FIRST hit my opponent with a Q, and THEN hopefully hit them with my empowered AA. This close-quarters combat now makes it quite difficult to string together a deathray/ grav-field combo with the current E firing mechanics. To conclude my first round of testing with him, I love where he's going. I think this rework is really on to something in trying to make him a solid pick as opposed to other champs. However, I think the whole "let's shift him to a close range mage" is necessarily where it should go. I feel currently his E has lost too much damage and we're relying on his new Q too much. I personally feel the scenario I described before hand is how many Viktor players feel. But I could be totally wrong too lol. Please feel free to comment and discuss. I want this Vik rework to prove how perfect his glorious evolution can be and that all will quake when im FIRIN MEH LAZA!!!
The combination delay is what will not work for him. Lets say you Q, then you have to walk close for the AA proc, then if the enemy is getting close you use the W. in theory it sounds great. Except that the time to walk up, proc, then wait for the w stun is probably enough to get you shredded. And the shield is pathetic. It'll protect for like a single auto...which mages don't really care about much. I hate the focus going away from E. it is/was such a neat skill. you have to carefully time and aim it, but when it did hit, it was awesome. so crap right now. Now its just Q+aa. I've been trying him against bots to get a feel of him and he feels boring.
: Central Feedback Thread for Viktor Gameplay Update
So after two games, here's what I can say (much of what is a repeat) 1. Q is weird. no idea what the point of an aa enhance spell is doing on a mage who has very nice range. And total Q initial damage is LOWER than most mages BASE Q abilities (was doing like 240ish with a little over 600ap) which SUCKS. Even though it does very nice damage, it doesn't feel right on him. 2. W is very nice. Excellent utility move, and the range really helps. Very well done on this one. 3. E you might as well either change, throw away, or rename from 'Death Ray' to 'mediocre laser beam'. There is no damage reward consider the type of ability it is. Plus it doesn't seem like his 'main' skill anymore. The numbers on it are terribad. Why in the world would i want an average damage ability with a very high unreliability? especially when there's reliable aoe damage abilities in the game. 4. R is fairly nice. the aoe radius could be a tad higher but overall not bad. visual is kinda bad. looks more like a plasma storm than a 'chaos storm'...why do his abilities sound so cool and then you use them and ._. tldr; E sucks. Q is weird.
: The increased range allows you to out play incoming damage (shield incoming harass) and is not intended to be for damage but instead utility from the speedboost and shield. I agree the E graphics are a bit lackluster currently but if you calculate everything out, every bit of damage in his kit has been buffed... like a lot
I feel he seems like a lower tier version of oriana right now. His E is my biggest concern. that is supposed to be his bread and butter skill but it feels so lackluster. What does it give you that other regular aoe abilities can't within the same cooldown limit? it has such a small hitbox plus its unlikely it will hit with the augment everytime due to delay explosion. I just don't feel as if the E is as good as it can be. For example, why pick him when you can have better poke/damage with ziggs q or xerath q? In the harshest possible personal viewpoint...E blows right now. great potential, but not that great atm. visually and number wise. yea it gives him an additional 40% damage...which from the looks of it seems to be base damage not total. plus because of the delay highly unreliable. I feel right now, he'll make a better support than a mid
: Central Feedback Thread for Viktor Gameplay Update
ok so im in a game right now trying him. a few things off the bat: 1. his q auto pro damage is great. however, with the base damage of Q is atrocious, and the range difference of the Q and aa range is odd. 2. his E augment seems pathetic visually. looks more like those small 'popper' type firecrackers rather than an explosion. 3. Considering E cooldown, mana cost, and the tiny hitbox, it should feel far more rewarding but it doesn't. it doesn't feel very well damage wise. 4. W and R are pretty well so far. tldr; E feels bad, q is meh on base, everything else great update- ok for some reason he feels weaker than before damage wise. far weaker. its like his q auto is the ONLY good damage update 2- every champion has a gameplay theme to them. just because a champion has the damage does not mean it flows with their theme. ex: take away rengar's stealth ult> no predatory/stalker theme. Viktor's theme is NOT being an auto attack mage. How that fits with his kit I haven't the slightest clue. To get that close means a champion is either an assassin, a bruiser, and/or has a reliable escape and/or tankiness built in. Viktor fits...absolutely none of this. He is NOT meant to be an AA mage. lets see who are some close range/AA mages. Akali, Fizz, Orianna, Ziggs. ALL of whom have an escape of some sort (a reliable one at that) and all have masston of damage. In fact, 3 of them you don't really even need to AA because of their range. Viktor's entire idea was to bring a laser shooting mage who has a hard to land skillshot that rewards a hit. Why can't you put some good gameplay into the Death Ray (which was supposedly his bread and butter skill)? Instead we get a crappy little laser with some popper firework effects. I understand people are saying 'oh his Q is great. Great damage' but HOW does it fit into his theme? he's a squishy slow mage with no escape...And the laser is extremely unreliable to hit for max damage.
: > He is available now. The other question, is are all of his skins going to be 1 IP? He's still disabled on PBE currently.
No, he's up. restart your client. playing him now literally
: He's not as bad a guy as everyone wants to assume he is. :(
Seems like he's less addicted to power like how Syndra is but more addicted to gaining knowledge and learning
: ~~Mini-gnar Q sometimes returns early before reaching max distance. It also doesn't seem to be able to deal damage twice on the same target but reading the tooltip says it should do 50% damage~~. With the tooltip change this is no longer considered a bug. There are still bugs with the boomerang interaction though, notably with the Hop (E), and sometimes I swear that the boomerang goes max distance even after hitting a pointblank minion or something, though I may have been considered to be "in front" of the minion. Sometimes when returning to mini-gnar, gnar has some fury points even though he shouldn't be stacking any fury since he's tired. Sometimes Mega-gnar E has a delayed damage, and when I flash in the middle of it the land doesn't do any damage (don't know if it's a bug) Update: Can no longer flash in Mega-Gnar E, BUT you can in Mini-gnar E (at least after bouncing). There is no icon for the ultimate when in mega-gnar form. ~~Also I need dino-gnar stat or I'm going to fall into a deep depression~~... Thanks :) (AMAZING SKIN BTW GJ) Ult-ramming an enemy against his base wall (on the outside) sent him flying into his base on the other side of the wall instead of being stunned on the one side. This only happened to me once, but I also only tried it once, so I don't know how often it happens. You can throw the boulder off the map, I don't know if that's intentional. As mini-gnar, using the hop (E) and then boomerang immediately at the end cuts the distance the boomerang throws in half. This happens only sometimes. Also you can throw the boomerang, then double bounce E and catch it before it returns. You can't throw the boulder during hop when in mega-gnar form unlike when in mini-gnar form. Either way the interactions between Gnar's Q and E are inconsistent and seem to be buggy. This is hard for me to confirm, especially since it's a difference in numbers, but I think there is issues with mini gnar with AD and lifesteal. At one point I had 10% LS from BotRK, then I bought a BT and added 20% LS, my total AD was 300, and I should've been healing for 90 HP each AA. What I got was a lot of AA where I healed only 30 HP, with some 90 HP heals spaced intermittently. The issue seemed to disappear over time, but I was no longer keeping track of it, only that I definitively healed only 30 HP when I had 30% LS. If this is hogwash just ignore it. New: Delayed damage on the ultimate sometimes. Mega-Gnar skin in dino gnar sometimes gets buggy and has a part of original mega gnar showing. Boomerang sometimes goes one way when I go another, completely missing it. Also sometimes I'd be on top of the return line and it'd pass through me. This happened only a couple times, but sometimes I'd throw out the boomerang, and when it reached it's max distance it'd disappear. ***Mini-Gnar (Dino Gnar skin) turned all blue, and then after 10 seconds turned all red, when I get a high rage, almost changing to mega gnar, (I suspect it occurs when mini-gnar begins to walk on all fours). This began happening after you inserted gnar's mini-portrait in champ select.
Agreed with this 100% the Q boomrang returns prematurely and does not travel full distance. Seems like it does 25% damage or even less. also, many times, it doesn't hit more than two units. E has delayed damage. damages not on bounce but on the land it seems.
: Rengar's "Steroids" are daily vitamins compared to other champs'.
This is pretty much right on point.
: Pointing out some flaws.. Rengar has a steroid from Q/W and CC from E. A 3 second ultimate is punishment for taking damage, it's only 1 second otherwise.
The Q steroid is situational on ferocity, and W gives a bit of armor and mr. E is a skillshot and if you shoot it from max range its unlikely you'll be able to catch up to them (and empowered E is situational). an ultimate that is mobility based should not give that big of a punishment. You either use it to engage or to escape. Escaping with it is extremely difficult since your'e likely to be on low health anyways so 3s is going to get you killed. lets take a look at other top lane bruisers that are popular right now. shyvanna, renekton, jax, irelia, ryze. every single one of these brings far more to the team than rengar. shyvanna far more damage and with dragon form, insane tankyness. renekton has target cc plus mass health and aoe. jax...is jax. irelia lets see, true damage, hard cc, gap closer, sustain, wave clear, tankyness, innate tenacity. You are correct that rengar does have 'steroids' in a definition sense, but nowhere near comparable to the other champions (which is what i was referring to)
: Rengar rework feedback
He is weak right now. Very very lackluster damage. The top bruisers all have damage, cc, self steroids. Rengar doesn't have any of that. Plus whats the point of a bruiser having a stealth like that? Its not like he can dish out the damage when he gets out of it. Renek, Shyv, and even ryze bring more to the table than this Rengar does. also, that 3 second delay is the stupidest delay for an ult. 3 seconds is enough to be be killed.
Rioter Comments
: awesome writeups guys - i have linked these to the rengar QA analyst
Please have someone look at the old fading in and out sound for the ult as well. Its no longer there
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Let's talk about Lee Sin retune
You do realize this does not provide any noticeable "buffs" to lee sin late game right? You've given him the total ad with fairly low ratios when lee sin doesn't really build much damage (apart from hydra sometimes). The attack speed buff for the TWO autos is a ridiculous gimmick. He's already got such a high skillcap. Have you even seen any pro plays with lee sin? Exactly how many of them depend on his auto attacks? And if you're going to change an ULTIMATE ability to have a very laughable 50 damage at level 6, then you might as well make it a normal spell and put it on a 10s or less cooldown.
Rioter Comments
: I aggree, before the extra W nerfs on PBE, kassadin could deal more damage early game with his W, and I did not constantly run out of mana before I bought a tear of the Goddess; unlike with the nerf where I could only deal large amounts of damage early game to their adc, and couldn't escape because of lack of mana from riftwalk, and not getting much mana back from W.(I maxed out W first)
Yeap exactly. I leveled the W and the kit felt amazing. I could get max % mana return and do melee damage. Now its so pathetic. His MAIN damage ability now has a 0.5 ratio. How laughable can you get.... and the current W mana return is so terribad. especially since the riftwalk no longer gives mana return. everything about him feels sooooo weak. He feels like a worse version of akali. in fact currently i would say there is no reason to pick him over akali.
: Xerath's Underwhelming Power
It would be nice to make his ultimate into an ammo based ult kind of like corki's ult. at least it'll keep the artillery theme.
Rioter Comments
: Interesting, good point :-) Though, he gets double the crit chance, which is HUGE! So if you get 50%, you have 100% chance to crit. That is similar to Nasus's life steal - a GOOD, solid passive. Also, he has a shield. So his low HP is to make up for his shield and crit - he's a glass cannon.
actually he's not a glass cannon. he does extremely well as a offensive bruiser. statik stiv and IE is all the damage items he needs. i've tried him with ie, statik, mercs, randuins, SV, and either GA or Maw. combined with masteries and runes that gives him near 40% cdr and a sub 20s ult cd. plus he can activate randuins while in his ult.
Rioter Comments
: [Bug Minor/Major] Yasuo 3rd Q doing damage before twister reaches them
can confirm. have seen this happen on multiple occassions.
: His wind wall doesn't seem to give good feedback. It should glow or something to indicate that the shield is preventing damage. Double Crit chance is absolutley silly. He gets a 90% crit with statikk and IE. That is stupid. He will deal 250% damage with almost every attack no matter what. At lv1 with these two items he will deal almost 300 damage every auto attack.
wtf. what kind of champion at level one has IE and statikk????? plus his early game is weak as heck so it compensates.
Rioter Comments


Level 30 (PBE)
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