: Vladimir Q damage are terrible (some maths)
I don't think there was ever really any question about whether Q would be nerfed. Vlad players were braced for that. I think the issue is that the Q nerf combined with the E nerf and spell vamp removal is a step further than we were expecting. Previously Vlad could reliably reach a critical mass after which he was essentially self-sustaining (due to having net gain in health on his E inside a wave), and that's no longer the case. The result is that Vlad is disproportionately nerfed compared to the mage update in general. This is ostensibly to fix the issue that he was previously unfun to play against in lane despite having a critically poor lane performance (true), and I feel like we're currently looking at a situation where Riot has cut off Vlad's nose to spite his face, so to speak. I can't say conclusively that the changes don't make him a healthier champ--they certainly do, to be sure--but I think he definitely needs his levers looked at. Personally, I would be looking for a much longer window for the empowered Q--something like 3 seconds--and better scaling across the board to compensate for the fact that his base damages have been nerfed and he was previously balanced as a carry.
: Vladimir's solo lane pressure has always been a pretty important part of the champion, and this update should function very similarly. The idea is that if he builds up his Q, he should be able to recoup the cost from a charged E. It might take some careful management to clear a wave quickly and without cost (approach the wave with a Q in the bank, leave a minion alive after E'ing to Q it for health), but it should still be possible. If you have a chance to try it out, please let me know how it compares!
Working on that now (just finished patching)! Thanks for the communication, btw. You guys have handled the MYMU better than any other major project in recent memory when it comes to keeping us informed. Especially because you guys prepared us so long ago, I feel like I had enough lead time to steel my nerves for the pain of the inevitable nerf hammers.
: Vladimir's E still deals HEAVY AoE damage, but it *is* harder to hit every creep in a wave, often requiring skillful positioning. When there's an opponent around, Vlad will have to think carefully about how he approaches a wave. When threat is low, however, he can walk into the middle of a wave and nuke it down ezpz.
I guess my concern is that on Live, by late game a top Vlad becomes a split pushing menace because he can walk into the middle of any lane (absent an opposing champion) and annihilate it at no cost and still have his W available to escape. He's one of my favorite champs to split with for that reason, and I'm afraid that because of the absence of spell vamp he will no longer be able to manage waves with the kind of efficiency split pushing demands without running himself out of health.
: MYMU - Vladimir Discussion
The suspense... Anyway, I'm very curious what his wave clear looks like with the new E. In the internal testing, how did he fare compared to live? It looks like it could be a weak spot now that item spellvamp is gone. Is that intentional?
: A Pep Post for CertainlyT
I am a vocal critic of these Mordekaiser changes. I think they're terrible pretty much across the board, and if I had my way about it they'd be scrapped entirely. I've gone into length on that in the feedback thread so I won't revisit it here. _ #prayforMorde_ I just wanted to mention that it's not personal. I don't know CertainlyT. My observations of his behavior toward some other fans early in his employment at Riot left a bad taste in my mouth and might have prejudiced me against him, but realistically, we're strangers. I don't have an opinion about him in any way other than as concerns his job performance. To wit, it's legitimate for me--and other fans--to be critical of his job performance, in particular his design choices (I don't care what time he shows up for work, personally). It's literally part of the job, and Riot hires thick-skinned people for exactly that reason. One of the good things about that for players is that we actually can voice our harder opinions, rational or otherwise, without fear of being banned outright. It's a good practice for Riot too, since it means the devs get real-time feedback on things like these changes. We've been absolutely fair. Some of us have been more articulate than others, and some of us like me are very emotional about these changes, but it is absolutely reasonable to expect CertainlyT and Riot staff to deal with extremely harsh criticism when they ask for feedback on a change that has by all accounts been extremely negatively received. Mr. Wenban is a professional. We can expect him to behave like a professional. So far he's done nothing less, although the radio silence for the last few days, particularly during the wave of feedback on the other "Juggernauts", left a few people wondering. We don't need to calm down. We need to speak our minds because this is our opportunity--probably the only one we get--to loudly and universally proclaim that these changes are at the very best incomplete and at worst a wholesale abandonment of character identity for a cherished asset. I'm not calling for CertainlyT's job, much less his head; I haven't even invoked a Zoidberg reference (you all know the one), but if we expect Riot to respect us as their customers, we have to respect them as professional software developers in an industry that caters to us. That means it's absolutely fair to expect them to occasionally have to step over a smoking turd on the boards without losing sight of the community's overall feeling, and I for one don't undertake an obligation to apologize on behalf of my lessers who have chosen not to be a meaningful part of the conversation. Moreover, it's absolutely reasonable to expect that when developers drop the ball they have people they're accountable to--and I'm not talking about fans. On the whole, personally I think the reaction to these changes has been pretty mild considering how sweeping they are, but more importantly, I take it as unsaid that CertainlyT doesn't need a pep talk to distinguish between criticism of his work and criticism of his person. This is his job; he's a big boy, and he's working in an extremely challenging field. He didn't get the job by accident, and if he wasn't capable of taking criticism he wouldn't still have it.
: >You're absolutely right that Mordekaiser could not be a marquee example of a healthy solo lane champion in his current live state. I imagine that's why you were tasked with working on him. Instead of actually working to fix the issues, however, you decided to 180 the champ. Would you prefer a {{champion:14}} lvl rework in order to make him the solo lane champ you want?
: We tried this! Controlling a pet for the entire game turns out to be taxing. Simplifying pet controls left many Morde players sad that they no longer had access to the old level of micro. More fundamentally, players felt that Mordekaiser's ghost was not about having a persistent pet, but sometimes having a tremendously powerful effect. Further they felt that getting such a powerful ghost was a reward for proper play. Being given pets all the time felt like a very different champion in a way that seemed to break from what I saw as the healthy and fun parts of Mrode's identity/challenge.
Wait, what? I read this before I responded earlier, but apparently for some reason it didn't strike me at the time. What got my attention was the notion that a permanent pet for Morde would break from the healthy and fun parts of Morde's identity, yet forcing him to duo lane wouldn't? As far as I can tell he didn't have many healthy parts of his play pattern, but he had a lot of fun parts and certainly a solid identity--most of his pattern revolving around having exceptional, maybe too exceptional, laning ability and being a mage who didn't look like a stereotypical mage. Both of those have effectively been eradicated. I've already said my piece about the changes themselves and how I felt about Morde's mage identity; I guess I'm just curious, now that I know some of these issues were discussed in-office and weren't exclusively your idea (correct me if I'm wrong)--was it really the feeling of Rioters as a whole, playtesting and otherwise, that a permanent pet would be a departure from Morde's core identity but being forced to lane with a support wouldn't? I'd love some insight, particularly now rather than during a Q&A after the changes have shipped, because I'm especially unhappy with these changes at the moment, and I don't see that going away any time soon. It would be nice if I could spread the blame around. EDIT: Also, on the issue particularly of pets, since I don't expect you to address my wall-of-text concerns in detail: are you at least going to fix the dragon issue so Morde still has access to his ult if he helps with a dragon?
: > [{quoted}](name=vynzs,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=KhcvQBlG,comment-id=00020000000000000006,timestamp=2015-08-05T06:26:06.340+0000) > > An excessive number of his lane matchups are determined either at champion select or through jungler intervention, not through the relative skill of Mordekaiser and his lane opponent. > > That's simply wrong. > > I play Morde mid a lot on d2/d1 EUW and it's simple : Morde can win every lane, or at least do even, just like he can get outplayed. > > Why must this be called "counterpicking" and "counterplay" when you want to say a good thing, but when you want to put it in a negative light to justify these changes you call this "determined either at champion select or through jungler intervention, not through the relative skill of Mordekaiser and his lane opponent." which is a huge exageration of the truth. CertainlyT refuses to accept that this "rework" isn't what Morde needs. He thinks he created something great, and will not swallow his pride till this garbage hits live. Calling it. He wants to be the "Hero to Break the Meta", when all he's doing is destroying a character people love with all their hearts.
> [{quoted}](name=Zenicide,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=KhcvQBlG,comment-id=000200000000000000060000,timestamp=2015-08-05T06:33:55.470+0000) > > CertainlyT refuses to accept that this "rework" isn't what Morde needs. He thinks he created something great, and will not swallow his pride till this garbage hits live. Calling it. He wants to be the "Hero to Break the Meta", when all he's doing is destroying a character people love with all their hearts. I'm reluctant to endorse anything that looks like we're presuming anyone's motivations or putting words in anyone's mouth, but it's hard not to make the conclusion you're making. It's even more frustrating because it may in fact be that what CertainlyT is trying is ultimately good for the meta-game. I'm all about shaking up the meta. I want to see more flexibility in roles. But that's the problem: this isn't creating flexibility. You're not making it _possible_ for a melee carry bot lane--you're moving a champ that already had an established role into a role that by all accounts will probably never exist. You're also doing it a few months ahead of Team Builder Draft (which strikes me as additionally worrisome, but that can be someone else's problem), and most importantly you're doing it with an established champion with active players and a vocal, loyal fanbase. I'm one of those fans, and let me be clear that I'm not angry because the change is bad--I think it is, but I know Riot has talented people responsible for balance, so that could be fixed. I'm angry because the change means I can't play Mordekaiser anymore. If this goes live, mid players and top players are in the unenviable position of having Mordekaiser no longer be part of their champ pool for their chosen positions and instead having to queue or ask for an entirely different role in the game if they want to play a champ they may love and with whom they might have a long history. I'd be very pleasantly surprised if CertainlyT personally came around to say that the team is responding to the backlash by making some significant changes in order to respect Morde's traditional role as a solo lane champ, but I don't expect that. I'm not going to make this an opportunity to comment on CertainlyT's design choices, because my agreement or disagreement with them is mostly irrelevant. As I said, even if he made Morde a fundamentally broken champ, someone could come along in a patch or two and clean that up. What can't be cleaned up is the damage to good will you're willing to tolerate in order to push through a change to the meta that is vastly more ambitious than your solo queue community can handle, and you're doing it on the necks of the fans of one of the game's most iconic and memorable characters. Live Morde is already an extremely unfun champ. Morde players know that, but his disjointed themes are worth preserving, and it's here you've missed the mark. It may be that what Morde actually needs is a Sion-level rework, and if that's the case and you don't have the time budget to do that now, we're actually okay with you saying so. But if you're going to tackle him now--and it looks like you've decided now's the time--then you need to use the opportunity to fix the _champ_ before you try to fix the meta. I'm still hoping this is the best medium for getting development eyes on my feedback, so I'm going to get into the thematic stuff. I know my remarks in this thread have already been long, and I really wish I could have had this conversation with someone before these changes were developed internally. We could have saved you guys a lot of work and ourselves a lot of grief. Mordekaiser is a mage. He's a mage first. He deals damage, and he deals it with his abilities. At times past he's been built tanky, and he's always had some very, very minor hybrid aspects, but for the last several years now he's been fairly entrenched in a mage identity. That entrenching came not because someone at Riot posted on the old forums that Morde is a mage and should be played mid. It evolved over multiple patch changes and community experimentation with the champ. In particular, Morde's a mage whose interaction with his opponent revolves around managing his shield--a buffer against retaliation to his poke--not a device for soaking up the alpha strike in a teamfight. The Mordekaiser minigame is the Morde player keeping the shield up and engaging when he has shield while the enemy player tries to keep the shield down and engages when Morde is vulnerable. It's a hard pattern to balance, but it's fundamentally able to be balanced. He's not a tank. You know how we know he's not a tank? He doesn't have any CC. None. He has no CC whatsoever. In that respect he's more pure of a mage than a lot of his mage competition. Now I'll leave to you guys to define what a fighter is and whether he is one, but if you compare live Morde to the other people in this Juggernaut category you'll see that he stands out pretty significantly in that he has no CC, and, excepting some periods in the past with Skarner, he's the only one in the bunch that consistently has built AP. Live Morde builds defense as an afterthought and only as much as he has to. Thematically, Morde is actually _not_ about a big metal guy walking in and hitting you with a mallet or soaking up your damage. Sure, he has a mallet and he's got a suit of armor, but Morde has always, for the last several years anyway, been about **oppression**. Morde stands at mid-range and chunks you and your minions with flying metal spikes. Ideally this would be not terribly unlike Vlad but with an earlier power peak and a lower ceiling. The armor is an illusion. It's something that's animated around Mordekaiser, like Xerath's coffin, something that covers him and conceals the black heart of what he really is. The metal isn't armor. It's a weapon. He's a bully, like Garen, like Darius. Is there a healthy way to make him a bully? Sure. It probably doesn't involve sending him into a 2v2 lane and having him try to eke out an XP advantage last-hitting minions, though. That's pansy-ass bullshit. Mordekaiser doesn't want to kill your minions. He kills your minions **_by accident_**. He wants to kill **you**. Maybe farming up and getting a timely dragon makes good game sense, but it's pretty damn terrible as a character fantasy. What does live Morde do? He comes to lane and fucks with the enemy laner until his opponent either leaves the lane in tears or dies. What does new Morde do? He farms, he hopes his lane partner gets a good opportunity to engage, and then he tries to get dragon so he can push down the enemy turret. The new Morde sounds like he could be in the LCS, but I'm never going to the LCS, and as much as I want to kill dragon sometimes, Mordekaiser's not in it for that, and I'm not picking him for that (especially since other champs do it better anyway). I pick Mordekaiser because **I shall bring great suffering**. More importantly, the new Morde doesn't resemble the old Morde at all. His build is a nightmare, his abilities make him no longer a reasonable choice for a solo lane, and he's traded his kill pressure for a goofy mechanic that only works when your entire team is coordinating for a global objective and succeeding. *Dragon ghost is textbook win-more.* Live Morde has a clear identity as a solo mage, he has two lanes to choose between (and could even jungle in seasons past--not sure if he still can on live or PBE), and he has very clear advantages--kill pressure and wave clear--and disadvantages--immobility, wave clear, and CC-lessness. New Morde's identity is a duo lane melee carry--something that is unproven and I'm willing to bet substantially will be utterly rejected and detested by the community at large--and his main advantage seems to be that if his team is already doing well then they can do better. He's Heimerdinger--he brings something to the team that no one needs. He's still immobile, still has no CC, but now his wave clear is also worse and he's forced to go to a lane where his status as a bully, even if he still had it, is rendered moot by being outranged by his enemy laners. This change is bad. Scrap it. If you can't be bothered to scrap it, make his W self-castable, put the AOE back on his Q, and for the love of God clean up his ratios. It would be far better if you just redesigned his model and textures so he looked a little more like he should build AP, but if you can't do that, at least give him a consistent build route that doesn't involve gimping himself in order to get effects that Morde players are accustomed to. And finally, either CertainlyT or someone on his behalf needs to man up and say that it was inappropriate to use Morde for a testing ground for something that if it should ever exist at all belongs on a new champ in pre-season. Morde es #1. Should it be Morde era #1?
: He can definitely solo lane still. His W is just useless unless your jungler is ganking. His E clear is nerfed a bit, but it's not like it's impossible anymore. Just not as easy as it was.
Thresh and Janna can solo lane also. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's a good idea. CertainlyT has basically come out and said he intended to force Morde into a duo lane. If that doesn't make Morde players furious, I'm not sure what would.
: I have a few concerns with some of the changes made to Mordekaiser.
The point of the experience change was to further incentivize taking Morde into a duo lane. If I read it correctly, it means that if Morde is farming, he gets solo lane experience while his support gets normal duo experience. That, ostensibly, gives him an artificial level advantage over his lane opponents because it creates experience out of thin air. Further nailing the coffin on solo Morde. Just say no. Let your voices be heard.
: I think CertainlyT is trying to break the meta. He is basically a melee AP tank support ANTI-CARRY champion who takes the ghost of his lane opponent and gives his team an ADC. He also needs a partner to be effective. At least, that's how I observed the changes. I think it's interesting but I'm not sure if it's viable at all, because he needs to actually get the last hit to get solo exp and he naturally pushes the lane so he is incredibly vulnerable to ganks.
Another thing worth noticing about CertainlyT's nonsense experiment is that by trying to take Morde bot, in anything other than team ranked you're asking strangers to accommodate you in doing something that flies in the face of three years of convention. It's one thing for CertainlyT to do that from his pedestal, paycheck in hand, but it's another entirely for players in the pre-game lobby. There aren't enough Lytes in the world to cope with the backlash you're going to see. And what really brings it home is that I absolutely can't blame anyone for having a negative reaction. If you first pick new Morde and declare you're going bot, the best thing you can expect is for someone to dodge. The worst is that four people suddenly hate your guts and will let you know. And that has nothing to do with whether the experiment is good, bad, or of no effect. Player perception doesn't just change because a dev wants to try something new at our expense.
: Harvesters of Sorrow (W) is not castable without an ally champion present. If you are alone as Mordekaiser, you'll have to do without it unless an ally ganks/roams for you. As others mentioned, Morde is still able to solo lane/jungle in our testing, but doesn't shine as brightly as he does in a duo lane. I'm comfortable with that mainly because I do not think that Mordekaiser can ever be a marquee example of a healthy solo lane champion given how stark his strengths and weakness profile is -- An excessive number of his lane matchups are determined either at champion select or through jungler intervention, not through the relative skill of Mordekaiser and his lane opponent. As I began to work on his mechanics though, the thing that stood out was how defined Mordekaiser was by those stark strengths and weaknesses. To round out his kit would have been to compromise him as a champion.
I'm going to echo the sentiment that this is total garbage. I will be refunding my Mordekaiser skin--the new King of Clubs skin that I really enjoyed--if this goes live. You're absolutely right that Mordekaiser could not be a marquee example of a healthy solo lane champion in his current live state. I imagine that's why you were tasked with working on him. Instead of actually working to fix the issues, however, you decided to 180 the champ. You want to know how you compromise Mordekaiser? **By making him dependent on other champions!** This is THE absolute WORST and I mean WORST abandonment of champion identity I have ever seen, and I've been supporting Riot since before Season 1. You took the metal-clad shade that rips people's souls out and decided he would be healthier if he worked with a buddy. What were you thinking? I don't think anyone can argue that Morde didn't need a lot of work, but honestly, even knowing you were the one responsible I'd never have even conceived of this kind of change. If you want to experiment with variations on the way the game can be played, that's a stellar undertaking and one I wholeheartedly endorse. Having different kinds of team compositions and lane setups is fresh, innovative, and a direction I'm totally willing to explore. You should design some new champs with that in mind. What you should _not _ do is take champions that have established identities and roles and **force** them into your experimental mold---a mold, might I add, that based on your admitted track record with champs like Yasuo, does not sell. The champs that end up being embraced in multiple positions are universally the ones that the community determines can go there--not the ones you assign. Tahm Kench despite being an awesome character design is a mechanical train wreck with no successful role, and Yasuo is a hard and fast solo assassin. No exceptions. He's more successful in a duo lane bot? How often is he in a duo lane bot among all games played? I'm willing to be wrong on that point. After all, if you're designing a champ you can jolly well force it into whatever role you want. Just give it abilities that are absolutely useless without another champ present. But when you shoehorn champs like that you're doing work that's better left undone. You're enforcing a meta contrary to the company's oft-stated intentions, and more importantly, in this instance, you're annihilating the trust of players who have put their faith in the company's willingness to preserve player sentiment towards its assets. Forcing Morde to be played in a duo lane (or else lose 1/5 of his kit) means that I will no longer get to play Morde in a competitive environment--even if I wanted to--because when I play with my friends I play solo top. That's absolutely the first and only time that's ever happened to me. Even with the support reworks and the changes to Lulu that made her much harder to function top (I didn't play her then anyway, so it's a moot point for me personally, but a valid one nonetheless), it was still possible to take her top without making her abilities non-functional--unlike champs like Kalista, who are designed and released from the outset to have ally dependencies in their kits. This is a long post, but this is my feedback. It is 100% unacceptable to use established champions as a way to experiment with the meta. What kind of response would you expect if someday one of your co-workers announced that because of his reliance on abilities Lucian was to be given good AP ratios, have his auto-attack functionality slashed, and expected to be played as a mage mid? --and let's face it, Lucian's a tough champ to balance; maybe that's what he needs to be healthy. or maybe someone realizes Anivia has good auto-attack range, so her damage should be cut down, her attack speed should be buffed, and she can be a marksman? Do either of those sound absurd to you? Well that's exactly what you've done to Mordekaiser. You've taken a champion and bolted mechanics on him to force him into a new role that is thematically antithetical to him and offensive to his fans. Even conceding that his solo lane potential might still exist in a heavily nerfed form, you've by design made it suboptimal. If you decided that you couldn't handle the backlash from making the necessary changes to make Mordekaiser viable to the players who already play him, you should have offered to give the project to someone who could stomach doing what needed to be done instead of taking him from us and giving him to a completely different set of players. Thanks for your time.
: Introducing chroma packs!
A few things: first, how expensive are they to make? If it's as easy as opening up the texture map in editing software and changing one color value to another, there's really no reason not to just make them available across the board as people decide on good color choices per skin, and make them available through multiple avenues as well. If you have to get an artist involved and do a bunch of internal QA instead, though, I understand limiting the rollout and availability. You indicate in the FAQ that it's not just moving a slider, but some detail on the actual tech (if not technical detail) could go a long way toward getting better clarity on how this stuff justifies the price point (and, similarly, you should expect us to assume the worst if we don't think the presented value is justified). Regardless, I think it would go a long way towards increasing expected margins if the price points were more accessible. 590 RP is equivalent to ~$4.50 USD; that's a reasonable price for a modern skin. At one point it was worth it for a recolor--as you note in the FAQ--but with rising standards come rising expectations (and inflation). Having multiple colors across champs is good if, for instance, you want to color coordinate with teammates, but under almost all other circumstances there's a level of redundancy that makes it hard to justify a bundle-only model. $1.50 is a reasonable cost for one recolor; in fact, for some champs it's a steal. But if that's the baseline, bundled chroma packs should follow the same pattern as other bundled content: save costs by buying bulk. How much would I be willing to pay for three chromas? $3.50 seems reasonable, especially if I'm now paying at least ~8.85 for a modern skin. For comparison, the FAQ indicates that the expected price point would be $3.00 (390 RP) each, but I think you already realize that that's a tough sell. Ultimately I _like_ the idea of Chromas quite a bit. But I don't like the idea of paying for them--and not just because I don't want to pay for anything; contrarily I like the idea of paying for skins. That makes sense and is a great way to monetize the game. You guys have a sterling reputation for what free to play should look like in my eyes and those of my friends, and while this is technically no different than monetizing any other cosmetic feature, I think there's a nontrivial distinction to be made. Whereas skins feel like an art purchase, right now, at least to me, chromas feel a little like I'm being nickel-and-dimed. The elephant in the room, of course, is Heroes of the Storm, and even if HOTS isn't setting a new standard for gameplay mechanics, they are absolutely capable of raising the bar for character models and art (you've still got them handily whipped on splashes though). I'm neither an economist nor a game designer, but I hope my concerns and those of my peers resonate with someone with some decision-making weight. I know for chromas to be broadly implemented they have to be profitable, but I also know that there's a real danger of turning what should be a cool and accessible feature into a very negative sound-byte that's used only to denigrate an otherwise overwhelmingly consumer-friendly business model.
: While I agree with you that Summoner Spells have little variety in that space - I'm not sure that means there are gains to changing it to allow for more variety, as almost every spell is less interesting and less skill-intensive than flash.
Yay, it's Xypherous! Hail Holy Voice of Reason! EDIT: Scratch that. I spoke too soon and I now see you addressed this in a later post (still new to the board setup). Keep doing what you're doing.
: The Battle Boost being an RP purchase is very, very off-putting and predatory. We already have gifting for our friends, and we already have IP Boosts. Players can make informed decisions about whether to spend money on those. Even for $1.00 or $1.15 (which is where it ends up, depending on how the RP was purchased), any purchase will have an entire lifespan of maybe a half hour. In some markets that's acceptable, but I think particularly in light of Riot's relatively stellar reputation for good monetization, this is a very, very bad turn. Honestly, I'm not sure I can come up with any price that would make it worthwhile, but I certainly can't speak for everyone, and I can't in good conscious advocate against giving people more choices. However, this is an illusory choice. In all cases purchasing a Battle Boost is sub-optimal to alternatives already available: For instance, if what you're interested in is skins, let's take the basic price point of skins, 975 RP. Sure, you could get a Legendary skin, but you could also get a skin on sale or a cheaper skin (if someone has an actual average RP cost of all skins currently in rotation, feel free to substitute that number; I'm sure Riot already has). To gift skins to all five members of the team, you're out 4875 RP. At 150 RP per game, the five of you (alone or together) would only have to play 32 and a half games to "pay off" the difference between the Battle Boost and purchasing the skins outright, *if skins are what you care about.* In times when I was more active I easily played two games every night, sometimes more and sometimes less, but that was a fair average for me. That means that in roughly two and a half weeks of regular play my team and I could have made up the difference in my RP cost between buying Battle Boosts for all 32 games and just buying my team five skins outright. What I haven't done here is calculate the IP boost per game per player, because if the IP boost is factored in, the Boost actually has value: Let's talk about the IP boost. A 2 win boost is "worth" 160 RP. So let's assume that that means 1 win is worth 80, and never mind the IP differences between game modes. So for five people you have a 400 RP value built in. If you're wanting IP, that's certainly a reasonable investment, and I wouldn't have any objection to that *provided that the IP award were significant.* However, I think most players appreciate intuitively that IP boosts are not a good value for your money because the time commitment is never enough to offset the opportunity cost. To put it another way, if a half hour game is worth 150 IP in boosted value, you're "earning" 300 IP per hour in time spend farming it by raping noobs on your smurf (for sake of argument). Well, 1 RP is worth about 6.5 IP (if 6300 IP is equivalent to 975 RP for these five skins we just bought). Your hour is only worth a little over 46 RP, or 30 cents. Spend an hour at literally any paying job in the United States and you've earned more. As I said, most people know that intuitively--and what's more, I'm totally fine with it. Riot's in it to make money, after all. We could factor in time value for the skins as well (and people have), and again we'd see that it's always more valuable to work your actual job and just buy the skins out of your own pocket than to grind out the IP, no matter how efficient you are at playing the game--again, as it should be. This is a game, after all. The point of all this math (some of which is probably horribly wrong) is to say that I can't expect Riot to educate players about the economics of the choices put in front of them. Nobody's going to include this multiple paragraph explanation as a disclaimer on the "Are you sure?" purchase prompt when someone's buying battle boosts. I can, however, expect Riot to err on the side of assisting players to make informed decisions about what their money is worth once they've decided to give it to the company. (character limit, more to follow)
The question I didn't answer is whether 32 games of free skin choices for five players is worth five permanent skins. There, I'm cheerfully willing to concede non-consensus. People will have differing opinions about that. For me, it's absolutely never worth it, especially given the game mode we're talking about. If it were *any* 32 games, it's a distant maybe. However, the position the players are put in with this system is to attempt to quantify that value in dollars--something which I have feebly tried to do (and probably failed at due to the levels of obfuscation embedded into the monetization regime). For me, that, in particular, is a bridge too far. Prompting temporary purchases at the character select screen is reminiscent of King.com, who for all their giant stacks of money have a horrible reputation among Riot's target demographic (poll us if you don't believe me). We really like giving this company money, as your balance sheet reflects. But we're a sensitive lot, I promise, and we will balk at anything that seems the least bit predatory. I've tried to outline a handful of rational reasons why, but I wouldn't honestly expect any group of gamers to be rational with their money any more than I would their time. I would, however, expect them to raise hell if they feel taken advantage of, and anybody with a computer can show proof for that, anecdotal or not. That's what this feels like: Taking advantage of those among us too stupid to realize what they're actually buying for a dollar given *what else they could buy in the same game with the same dollar.* So I'd argue that it needs to go.
: Uhm, is that battle boost an RP purchase or IP purchase thing? Not gonna lie, it sounds like a super scummy micro-transaction if it's an RP thing.
The Battle Boost being an RP purchase is very, very off-putting and predatory. We already have gifting for our friends, and we already have IP Boosts. Players can make informed decisions about whether to spend money on those. Even for $1.00 or $1.15 (which is where it ends up, depending on how the RP was purchased), any purchase will have an entire lifespan of maybe a half hour. In some markets that's acceptable, but I think particularly in light of Riot's relatively stellar reputation for good monetization, this is a very, very bad turn. Honestly, I'm not sure I can come up with any price that would make it worthwhile, but I certainly can't speak for everyone, and I can't in good conscious advocate against giving people more choices. However, this is an illusory choice. In all cases purchasing a Battle Boost is sub-optimal to alternatives already available: For instance, if what you're interested in is skins, let's take the basic price point of skins, 975 RP. Sure, you could get a Legendary skin, but you could also get a skin on sale or a cheaper skin (if someone has an actual average RP cost of all skins currently in rotation, feel free to substitute that number; I'm sure Riot already has). To gift skins to all five members of the team, you're out 4875 RP. At 150 RP per game, the five of you (alone or together) would only have to play 32 and a half games to "pay off" the difference between the Battle Boost and purchasing the skins outright, *if skins are what you care about.* In times when I was more active I easily played two games every night, sometimes more and sometimes less, but that was a fair average for me. That means that in roughly two and a half weeks of regular play my team and I could have made up the difference in my RP cost between buying Battle Boosts for all 32 games and just buying my team five skins outright. What I haven't done here is calculate the IP boost per game per player, because if the IP boost is factored in, the Boost actually has value: Let's talk about the IP boost. A 2 win boost is "worth" 160 RP. So let's assume that that means 1 win is worth 80, and never mind the IP differences between game modes. So for five people you have a 400 RP value built in. If you're wanting IP, that's certainly a reasonable investment, and I wouldn't have any objection to that *provided that the IP award were significant.* However, I think most players appreciate intuitively that IP boosts are not a good value for your money because the time commitment is never enough to offset the opportunity cost. To put it another way, if a half hour game is worth 150 IP in boosted value, you're "earning" 300 IP per hour in time spend farming it by raping noobs on your smurf (for sake of argument). Well, 1 RP is worth about 6.5 IP (if 6300 IP is equivalent to 975 RP for these five skins we just bought). Your hour is only worth a little over 46 RP, or 30 cents. Spend an hour at literally any paying job in the United States and you've earned more. As I said, most people know that intuitively--and what's more, I'm totally fine with it. Riot's in it to make money, after all. We could factor in time value for the skins as well (and people have), and again we'd see that it's always more valuable to work your actual job and just buy the skins out of your own pocket than to grind out the IP, no matter how efficient you are at playing the game--again, as it should be. This is a game, after all. The point of all this math (some of which is probably horribly wrong) is to say that I can't expect Riot to educate players about the economics of the choices put in front of them. Nobody's going to include this multiple paragraph explanation as a disclaimer on the "Are you sure?" purchase prompt when someone's buying battle boosts. I can, however, expect Riot to err on the side of assisting players to make informed decisions about what their money is worth once they've decided to give it to the company. (character limit, more to follow)

Xhieron

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