: Every champion, assassin or not, should be able to get fed and to be countered. Rengar is not in a bad position. The point is, the champion is not supposed to work in anyones hand. Every champion has their unique gameplay so that you have to master them in order to succeed. Every main rengar just presses R and burst every one down. BECAUSE THE CHAMPION IS FUCKING STRONG. The moment someone who has never played the champion fucks up the game just by pressing one skill and jumping on your face, we've got a serious problem. Stop crying because some random can't cause damage while people who actually knows Rengar keeps winning every damn game. It's the same to every other champion. It's called balancing and I'll tell you something, he's already breaking his balance without buffs. Good day, sir!
My man. I'm a diamond Rengar player with over 1 million mastery. I wouldn't call myself bad. Rengar's old kit was always a low elo-stomper so I'm not surprised you're upset however take an unbiased look at his statistics, keep in mind that the revert made him easier to play overall and you'll obviously notice that he's not in a good spot.
: About the Warmog's nerfs
It's to stop cinderhulk junglers from abusing it. The 20% (now nerfed to 15%) hp with the raw health from Cinderhulk and Warmogs would make it so the passive would kick in even if Warmog's was bought 2nd item which isn't the intent behind it.
: Conquerer Wind up time before activating needs to be lowered
Tl;dr OP really wants Conqueror to be good on Riven.
: "Healthy gameplay" by rito. . . .
It's almost like a level 17 assassin SHOULD kill a level 12 adc without any support near them.
: Holly shit, don't even tell me... Me and my pal where playing as Janna and Cassio, in live, against a Rengar with Dark Harvest. So, Rengar just stacked the rune, bought Drakthar and started hit killing everyone that wasn't our ally Poppy. Cassio start ulting him everytime, so he bought Edge of Night and became unkillable. We're still traumatized. In my opinion, Riot reverted Rengar's Q just because it was harder to hit, even if the skill did (too much) a decent damage, normally. So now Rengar can burst anyone as he wants, and don't get punished for building a 10 cents item that give him defensive status and a Banshee at every 30 seconds with a lot of damage and Lethality, AND STILL GET BUFFED? RIOT, REALLY?????
Well, Rengar is actually pretty bad right now. He snowballs when ahead but it's pretty tough to actually get ahead. It's just that like he always was, he stomps bad players since he abuses enemies playing poorly very well. Also, I don't see why Rengar would be punished for building an item that he's supposed to build. It's lethality, he's an assassin. Assassins like lethality.
: That's a bug, it should be on for her! We're fixin' it. I've playtested with it and it actually feels pretty satisfying, not large enough to be annoying.
: Hey! Thanks for putting so much effort into this post, I appreciate it :) (formatting is great btw) WheelChair Racer already answered for Akali/Annie/Fizz. The "Transforming Champions" application is really cool! However, I think it misplaces the UX importance here - this flair is meant to show that the player **fulfilled a condition**, and **got the instant reset** because they did it (both a reward and a reinforcement). For it to play on all of those champions would be technically strange, as those cooldowns aren't literally reset, and also wouldn't involve that reinforcement of "fulfill condition" and "get reset." **Zyra W is missing and we'll add her!** Same logic for Heimerdinger. Karma's a weird case - I feel that her CD reduction feels more "incremental" than "reset," so we'll probably leave it off her to start. Rengar's also a weird case - I think we'll leave it off of him, as it could be confusing when you reach full ferocity, "reset" all basic abilities, but then after using one they all go on cooldown. Same for LeBlanc. The Camille - Yorick, and Items suggestions are cool too! Like above, however, they're not meeting the goals for this flair. Thank you again!
On a side note: Did you forget about Irelia? Her Q resets its cooldown completely whenever she last-hits an enemy with it, or would it look annoying considering she resets it a lot in combat?
Wait what? Tank junglers are dominating atm in higher elos. The nerfs are 100% deserved.
: ***WARNING: LONG POST*** First of all, I never knew {{champion:28}} had a reset.. TIL Think you left out {{champion:84}} R, {{champion:1}} Q and {{champion:105}} W on kill resets. (maybe some more but can't think of any on top of my head) For the {{champion:11}} conundrum: If these are limited to full resets only, How come {{champion:55}} R is on here? , getting one reset and 15 seconds off a Level 16 45%CDR Kat ult should leave it at around 10 seconds on CD, I think the limitation should be altered a little where if the partial reset will bring the ability back off CD it should do the animation. --- But truthfully, I think this looks really neat! My suggestion is that the same animation should be played on transformation/evolving champs, with the new abilities' icons replacing on top of the old ones, which IMO would look really cool! --- **Forms/Evolving** {{champion:60}}: QWER, Human/Spider {{champion:150}}: QWER, Mini/Mega {{champion:126}}: QWER, Cannon/Hammer {{champion:76}}: QWER, Human/Cougar {{champion:240}}: Q,Mounted/Dismounted {{champion:141}}: QWER,Base Kayn/Darkin/Shadow Assassin (Is it possible that this animation plays on champ portrait too?) {{champion:121}}: QWER,Evolved Abilty {{champion:421}}: QWE, Unburrowed/Burrowed {{champion:14}}: QWER, upon entering zombie mode where all his abilities become Death Surge {{champion:112}}: QWER, Evolved Ability Kai'Sa: QWE, Evolved Ability ^the portrait is not on here yet and will show Zyra instead{{sticker:sg-janna}} removed for confusion And what about on empowered abilities... {{champion:74}}: QWE, Upgrade {{champion:43}}: QWE, Mantra {{champion:107}}: QWE, Full Ferocity {{champion:7}}: QWER, Mimic and (more farfetched/not sure if possible but would look cool) when an ability reaches their final form... {{champion:164}}: Q2 could use this as well (on the true damage version only not on the normal one) {{champion:202}}: R, 4th Bullet {{champion:50}}: R, when Demonic Ascension becomes available to recast as Demon Flare {{champion:157}}: Q3, Tornado {{champion:82}}: Q3 Or situations where they give alternative effect? {{champion:83}}: Q with 3 Graves --- **Items** Not sure if they have any animation live in game (I know they do in spectator mode) but when {{item:2419}} comes online, and {{item:3003}} and {{item:3004}} transforms into {{item:3040}} and {{item:3042}}. As well as on the new reworked support items {{item:3311}} {{item:3096}} {{item:3097}} when they gain the sightstone effect on quest completion. --- Thanks for reading! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
None of the empowered abilties reset cooldowns, they either use the basic ability CDs or have separate CDs. Akali's R doesn't reset its cooldown, it just gives her 1 extra charge. Annie's Q only refunds half its cooldown and Fizz's W's CD is reduced to 1second so it's not a full reset. As for Katarina she indeed only displays the reset HUD animation if her passive actually resets her ult's CD.
: What about Rengars ferocity? {{champion:107}}
No please I don't want to see my entire kit flashing every time I get 4 fero.
: I don't think Rengar need's anymore damage mid game. His Q is already insane with {{item:3142}} and {{item:3071}}. The way I play Rengar is Critgar + Pen(think Ghostblade + Dusk then IE and Phantom). You can consistently rip through any carry with a {{item:3026}} or {{item:3157}}, but adding more ratio to his Q is only going to make his one shotting capability within a 0.5 seconds even worse. I honestly think his Q should be toned down more. 1.3 AD is insane, 1.15 is pretty fair. I don't want to kill Rengar because I love the way he is now(skill set wise) but his current balancing on his Q is fucked. It deals too much and if you get 5 kills on Bonetooth quickly then you're essentially unstoppable mid game and you can freely kill anyone but a tank with Bramble. tl;dr rango is super scary past 6 and his mid game is nuts with rank 5 q, q should be nerfed and maybe tweak bone too, upgraded jungle item makes no sense on rango
Well if you're playing in Silver where people give you kills like you're at an all you can eat buffee of course he will seem strong. In no world does he warrant nerfs. Not to mention that you going Youmuu's > Black Cleaver further proves that you have no idea what you're doing. Not going Duskblade on an AD assassin right now is signing a death warrant for your snowballing potential and overall burst.
: i think q is godd now because rengar is an assassin man like zed his potential damage is very high and need to be
yes rengar is spiderman i think
: #**LONG IN DEPTH pre-patch response to this. Always many thanks for the work.** --- #- Removal >-AP Rengar buffs are out. No more AP on boonetooth, no more AP ratio on R. We overall feel like AP Rengar, is a less healthy version of AD Rengar when allowed to be strong. They're trying to do the same thing (jump on you and burst you), but AP (when strong) does it faster and with less time to react. As mentioned before, we aren't going to be deliberately making AP Rengar worse than what's on live. Overall, the Q revert's Lich Bane synergy and some changes we're trying with the W are going to make AP Rengar better regardless. - This is good, AP build by far was too strong, and removing the AP on bonetooth, and removing the random AP ratios are good. Your wording is exactly correct here, nice overall direction. >-Triple Q, This pattern is bonkers. Especially in top lane. Likely going to make the empowered Q buff only last as long as the Ferocity combat timer (with a slight buffer added to make it feel good if you use it right at the end) and give the ferocity MS upfront on cast (if it isn't doing that already). Thoughts? - Triple Q isn't something I'd like to stay despite the 414k mastery points, it's not healthy or something that I'd want to stick. I really think it'll make top lane, or midlane scuttle crab based ganks really, oppressive. Any situation with this possible is stupid. - I don't know if lowering the Q buff will fix it, or if this is the correct direction. Someone else might have a better suggestion here. #- Numbers stuff >-Q AD ratio up. We felt that the Q output wasn't scaling sufficiently into late game after we nerfed the upfront damage on the ult, so experimenting with higer Q AD ratios since his damage is no longer as frontloaded. - I'm honestly not to sure about this. I've been playing Rengar, and he still feels quite strong already. Critgar will get stronger too, but I'll have to see so for myself if this Buff is appropriate. >-W base damage up, cooldown down. Feels like he's a bit low on AoE after the Q revert, so trying to help his early clear/laning a bit here. Also hopefully opens up more flexibility to max E second. Some worries about this making top-lane bruiser Rango too good. May need to revert. - If you're upping the base damage, and lowering the cooldown, it's another buff to AP Rengar. The old cooldown was 12 seconds flat, now it's 20 - 12, making it 18 - 12 or even 16 - 12, is fine. I don't know exact damage numbers, but I'd suggest 15 - 30 would be a good spot. - His clear isn't bad, you just have to kite. Without a leash I was able to clear around 3 minutes and 15 seconds, this clear was red -> raptors -> wolves -> blue -> gromp. You end up with around 60%+ hp, and can take scuttle to heal up. With a leash it's 3 minutes and 70%+ hp, and you can take scuttle to heal back up. Kiting camps is really important, if you're not kiting, or clearing well, his clear is bound to suffer. - This change may effect bruiser top lane Rengar more than you want to, but I still think bruiser Rengar needs a looking at if it's too strong, realistically in a game sense. Possibility of reverting this change? I'm not sure, need to test it, when it hits PBE. - POSSIBLE SUGGESTION Could make it so, if W hits a monster, the cooldown is lowered AND/OR, does 20% increased damage to monsters. #- Bug fixes >Doing a QA sweep and attempting to fix LOTS OF BUGS. - I'm sure someone else will have you covered with this, not something I can completely point out. #- Other stuff >-Still trying to figure out how to replicate the old Tiamat thing you guys seemed to enjoy so much. -Should he get more ferocity after ult? Should Q generate ferocity on cast? Answer is likely no. Uncertain. Still figuring it out. -Mecha Rengar Animation got some mixed feedback. Testing with VFX, may need to continue to iterate. -DOES ANYONE HAVE THE OLD BOONETOOTH ICONS IN A DRIVE SOMEWHERE? They looked pretty cool, kind of want to try hooking them up to see how they work, but I can't find them. They may have been lost to time...Will continue to search through the old files. Hrmmmm while typing this I thought of somewhere they might be... - So about the tiamat stuff, I've compiled and imgur album that should extremely help you out, I'm also linking you with info on the bonetooth stuff, also check out the reddit thread on rengar mains. Rengar 2/2 UPDATE submitted by zippymid. It should help you out as well with the bonetooth. It's where i got the links from, as well as the Rengar Mains discord. - About Mecha Rengar, I've added a bit of exploration for you in the same imgur album. - Let's talk his Q, and Fero gain on R. If you make Q give ferocity on cast, ask yourself, how does this work with leap, and other spells? I think we get a lot of weird situations tbh, I'm fine with ferocity gain on attack. Should remain a likely no. More ferocity after ult, okay let's go with some of his R theory. >Rengar R Theory - Can't give him too much damage on R, you remove free crit, and PBE rengar can now build crit, essentially is buffing his instant burst. - Can't give him more ferocity ON LEAP, you find interactions that are buggy as well as weaken his combo strength, it also directly goes against what you've done earlier to ferocity, the problem of instant snare, and instant big boi damage. - You can't give him too much shred either, you're literally making every other build stronger, when the main incentive should be go lethality, with crit being viable but not broken, and having bruiser when you need it. - Stats on KILL are much better than before kill, or before leaping onto a target. - To explain this, in my own view. Don't give him too much stuff once he's gone in through a leap. If you want to give him something after ult, make it just like bonetooth. Let's say Rengar activates R, if he kills his target within 3 seconds, then give him X ferocity amount. I like how he's rewarded for good positioning, with the bonus damage, armor shred, idk, I feel like conditional more armor shred might be better. It's just a theory afterall, not concrete. #- FAQ - I don't have anything to say on this, it's all correct. --- # Here are your links, and as always from all Rengar Players, thanks for your work. [Talking about Q and Tiamat, as well as Mecha Rengar](https://imgur.com/a/Tb7Oe) [Thread on Mecha Rengar with Slycreed comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rengarmains/comments/7u4rns/new_q_animation_for_mecha_rengar/) [Bonetooth Stuff Reddit Link, also check out ShadowAssault15's comment chain](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rengarmains/comments/7uy4a8/rengar_22_update/) [Old Rengar Base Skin Sounds](https://wiki.spectralcoding.com/info:lol_sound_pages:rengar_-_default) [Old Rengar Headhunter Sounds](https://wiki.spectralcoding.com/info:lol_sound_pages:rengar_-_headhunter_rengar)
bro why dont u want triple q to stay its not even broken wtf? its only 370% total AD?? it doesnt even deal damage actually wtf its conditional you cant even do it reliably and it allows rengar to make mistakes? rengar needs obvious clear buffs, if you dont think so u are not real rengar main, he needs to be able to clear faster so he can snowball because crit build spikes really late in game and he's useless without crit ok? ok i think ur wrong if u think rengar e delay shouldnt get removed because it makes him very clunky and bad and i dont like clunky because he is diver with lots of interesting options and his kit shouldnt be clunky. i also think that rengar ferocity should be reverted because it fits assassin very good because it is not only in combat and you stack to prepare for hunt, as i said i think triple q is not broken and this would bring back triple q but also empowered e making rengar's ganks really interesting. i think as well that they should change mecha rengar's tail because it doesn't fit an assassin since it is very big i think its very obvious from your comment you are not actual rengar main and you only play swimmer q, i think you should go swim away!
: I had a 6/2 Lucian game, Rengar was 2/0. I had Tabi, IE, vampiric scepter and Phantom Dancer, still got one-shot by Rengar. He had Warrior enchanment, duskblade and youmuus. There's just no way to fight him as an adc even if you're ahead. Sucks, but oh well, that's a mistake on my part for being alone.
Well to be honest being able to kill an assassin 1v1 as an ADC (unless he's extremely behind which clearly wasn't the case) would be stupid and would make the class completely useless. Assassins capitalize on mistakes such as bad positioning or decision making (going to push lanes alone for example).


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