: Aatrox Bug Thread
Since this is the thread 100% checked for comments at some point, I'll leave feedback here. Riot, I've been on and off on your reworks. Some I like, Sion, Urgot, Warwick, Irelia... Some I dislike, Yorick, Mordekaiser, Fiora, Quinn... RYZE... But my dislike has been a difference in taste and gameplay philosophy, a personal opinion. Even when champions needed some hotfixes here and there, or a few patches to get into a decent place, reworks tend to be good when they leave PBE from an objective standpoint. Calling out faults, have usually been a matter of taste. I'm not bothered by the character and voice change, or lore for that matter. But everything else, if not bad, is faaaaar below your usual standards so far. His ingame model looks more outdated than his old one, except when he ults. His kit feels more outdated and clunky than his old kit. Everything I see when I play him in game, is a pure downgrade on all fronts. I'm not going to complain that he seems weak, that's something that can be fixed. But his kit, my god... It can be a nice kit, I have zero doubt that the concept is good. It can be a nice character, sure thing. But if this is to be released in a couple of weeks from now, this is incomprehensible... He looks and plays like a private beta version, not a public one. Number tuning and bugs not being too present aside, he feels and looks like ass to play. I know that you guys have hyped him up now, and it might be too late to pull him back from releasing next patch, but either buckle down and get to work or delay this... thing. That he has been in development for years (not pointing to all his scrapped and iceboxed reworks so far) is beyond me. How can he look and play like this? This is not an Aatrox fanboy thing, sure, I've played him every now and then, but this is mainly a guy who has played League for years thing. I'm not going to bother offering suggestions on how to fix it, it's not my job to fix this, but I will list everything that feels wrong so far. 1. His passive is cool when applied, but feels like trash to apply. The effect is interesting, I like it. Seriously though, how is it supposed to ever work? He has no chase or gapclosers anymore and it procs on minions. You can basically force him to miss out on cs, by refusing to let him auto you. He'll waste it on a creep and then you can just jump on him. If the rest of the kit was better, this would be good however. 2. His Q's are cool in trailers, but are horrible in game. A melee champ rooting himself for such a weak knock-up and poor damage? Sion is also rooted, but he can release early if needed and when charged he can walk up and burst people with all of his abilities and an auto for free. Aatrox however? He get the **_Possibility_** to land another knock-up. I know what his E is supposed to do, but seriously. Compared to any other fighter, or even any tank, it feels dreadful both to miss and to land. It gets dodged effortlessly and it feels dreadful, and when I land it, I just think "That's it? All I get is a chance to try again with a shorter hitbox?" I don't care how it's fixed, but fix it. He could be broken for all I know, but it feels horrible to play. 3. His W makes no sense, even if interesting. What's the theme or idea here? It punishes less mobile champs, but... It's like a minion blocked Kled Q or something? Why is using this ability, a longer cooldown, minion blocked, zone on the ground Kled Q? It's cool, I guess, but why does Aatrox have it? Why is it a skillshot that's minion blocked? I just really don't understand. You can't push or CS from range with it when it's single target and on such a long cooldown. It could be good in a Teamfight or jungle skirmish, but... Isn't that what ultimates are usually for? Why am I using this ability? 4. His E. No comment, just ... no comment. I get that it's for his Q, and passives are there to make it seem less trash, but moving the mouse and clicking where to walk like any other similar champion, or removing a passive or two and have an actual ability... I don't know... No comment. 5. His R. His R is actually cool, he looks cool, it feels cool. Sure the effects seem underwhelming, but that just because the rest of his kit feels underwhelming. I don't think this input would be considered too valuable, but I really needed to get this off my chest. I've been playing top and bruisers for years, through highs and lows. And... Having bruiser items cancelled, sure, I can live with it. Sucks. But then the next PBE patch, reworking one of the few viable bruisers left into this. This is just unfathomable. This is years of work? This is the end result of scrapped projects? Unbelievable. This is the problably one of the worst formulated posts or texts I've written, but I'm speechless. I thought PBE was for finding bugs and exploits, but this rework needs way more work than just bug fixing. This is looking like a QoL nightmare. This is something that might've been introduced in Season 2 or 3. Just... I'm sorry, I'll stop. I've been writing for too long now, and I'm just rambling, I hope that this champ turns out ok. Preferably when he hits live servers and not 6 months of QoL purgatory after his release. Oh yeah, and his E doesn't scale with CDR for some reason. Might be intentional, might be a bug, might be a tooltip error. If it's a bug, it's hardly your biggest concern anyway. Good luck guys. **EDIT:** Sorry for breaking your rule on what to post where, but since no Aatrox gameplay feedback thread has been made by you guys, this post goes here. Right to your doorstep. Because this time, I'm actually dissatisfied and disappointed and I feel like I owe it to you to be as constructive and loud about it as possible. 6 Years of highs, lows, fun and frustration? You earned my feedback.
: Yorick Update Feedback Thread
Ok, so now I've had my hands on Yorick for some time and here's what I've found out. Toplane: He is really weak against competent opponents and mobile champions during laning, which is good in itself, but he remains weak unless fed or until he finishes 4 items or so. His main weakness is lack of tank stats or good debuffs. His Q heals too little early and late game, it's only good level 7-9. If it scales with anything other than just a flat value, it'd be much better overall. Given that Yorick must be in melee range and forego grave stacking to Q champions, it would be nice if it did more damage or debuffed them/buffed him somehow. His Q is simply too weak for laning. Jungle: Meh Pre 6, God control jungler Post 6. Honestly don't see any problems, not too broken given weak early, weak ganks and high ult cd. Also, W hp bar will always be a little awkward. I think VFX is the way to go.
: any know why the ghosts of Yorick die with a 1 hit of the towers at higher levels?
> [{quoted}](name=DarkEvilGamer,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=LHJqRO3e,comment-id=002e00000001,timestamp=2016-08-31T18:34:34.160+0000) > > any know why the ghosts of Yorick die with a 1 hit of the towers at higher levels? They're coded to insta-die to towers.
: Yorick Update Feedback Thread
Regarding the Q, has it ever been in consideration to make the heal increase with Q graves created rather than levels? would it be possible to give it additional stats/debuffs/self buffs when used on champions? Slow/Armor ignore/Armor reduction/AS reduction/etc, OR increase the scaling further? EDIT: As another option, would it be considered out of line to give it 50% cd refund when used on champions? As when you have 40% cdr, a 3 sec cd Q reduced by 50 will give it the same cd as sheen.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lukinerx,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=LHJqRO3e,comment-id=004500000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-29T18:57:10.665+0000) > > did you even bothered to last hit all the shit to get graves or just speed run and ignored making graves/ghouls at all? also what masteries&runes you used? Just confirmed again, Yorick jungle is a thing now with the new AI. Is so easy to do the 3 graves, u can do that 2 times every 3 camps(4 in a total clear, it doesnt even mattter where u start) but the only thing Ghouls do is tanking, the Q is the key of his succes = low CD, low mana cost, lot of damage, auto reset and heal. And post-6 u feel so strong with the limitless ultimate/ghouls, like if u were 2 champs, gives so much pressure and the clearing is even faster. As a jungler main im very satisfied with his jung version, its very fun. But as i said, as top sucks, even more than Kled.
> [{quoted}](name=Artics,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=LHJqRO3e,comment-id=0045000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-29T22:51:29.284+0000) > > Just confirmed again, Yorick jungle is a thing now with the new AI. Is so easy to do the 3 graves, u can do that 2 times every 3 camps(4 in a total clear, it doesnt even mattter where u start) but the only thing Ghouls do is tanking, the Q is the key of his succes = low CD, low mana cost, lot of damage, auto reset and heal. > > And post-6 u feel so strong with the limitless ultimate/ghouls, like if u were 2 champs, gives so much pressure and the clearing is even faster. > > As a jungler main im very satisfied with his jung version, its very fun. But as i said, as top sucks, even more than Kled. Yorick jungle is indeed broken post-6. He can struggle if invaded early or set behind in some way, but god... The level 6 control he offers.
: Yorick Update Feedback Thread
Yoricks AI feels much much better now, easier to roam around with maiden and minions. However, every now and then especially if alone, the maiden will sometimes get confused if there's no minions around her and either stand still or try to get back to Yorick. Regarding balance otherwise, Gunblade basically feels like a core item on Yorick at the moment since his Q heal is melee and weak level 1-4 and 9-18. It feels undertuned early levels and falls off hard late game. If it had scaling, either max hp, ap, ad, missing hp, heck movement speed for all I care, it would feel far more potent. Right now there's 3 ways to build Yorick with optimal MR; - Double damage vamp, SV. - Triforce, Titanic, Banshees - Black cleaver, Maw SV is not worth building unless you follow up with Gunblade and DD. And considering Gunblade and DD are both items with no tank stats, they feel awkward to build in a viable build. At the moment, if you don't end his weak early and squishy mid game when he's building damage vamp and Yorick gets those items + tank items. You lose, and Yorick suddenly become raidboss. Feels like pre-rework Poppys power curve, and it's not fun to play with/against. Damage vamp Yorick just feels really wierd and out of place in Leagues current state. Allowing his heal to scale better on tank stats won't solve his obnoxious damage vamp healing, but it makes you able to build better Juggernaut items instead. Like Black Cleaver, or Titanic, or Mallet, anything but Gunblade+DD.
Rioter Comments
: Yorick Update Feedback Thread
Ok, two bugs, and few thoughts coming up; If you send Maiden to split and they kill a minion, Warlords Bloodlust vfx will sometime activate. Despite Ghouls/Maiden not applying Warlords. Your ghouls even when attacking enemy champions does not cause Yorick to draw tower aggro. I've played alot of the old Yorick, and while I agree his kit was outdated and anti-fun. I cannot agree with this massive nerf to his power level. This version of Yorick has two viable functions. Send Maiden on a Zz'rot/banner-ish split push. Or nuke objectives with Maiden. The rest of his kit, even with Maiden only being ok when dueling (just run to tower bruh), has far too little power for how situational it is. It requires even more set-up than Illaoi in order to function, but Illaoi straight up one shots minion waves/you/you and jungler/you and your team/your team and your family when things are in her favor. There's no real reason to pick Yorick at the moment other than for the funsies, when Illaoi, Mordekaiser and Malzahar does what he wants to do, but better. I'd rather this doesn't become a case of Skarner, Mordekaiser and previous Ryzes (words out these will be reworked again). So here it goes; His Ghouls are far too weak considering how little sticking potential and how fast the de-aggro. Either make them deal more damage, remove the silly 4 Ghoul cap or make them more tanky. If each Ghoul's next auto would reapply 1/4th of his Q and E damage, they would be dangerous and bursty. If each Ghoul get armor and magic resist (per level or a percentage of Yorick, whatever), they can become actual pushing threats when they de-aggro. His Q is overall weak. Darius has a slow on his 1.4 AD auto, Garen has a silence on his 1.4 AD auto, Yorick got nothing except a small heal. Choosing wether you attack a minion to get a grave, or champion to deal damage should feel more meaningful. This might be tied to his passive feeling so underwhelming, but I honestly don't feel much incentive to use my IQ on what I Q. I like his W, it has it's moments of hilarity. His E could use yet another small buff. Slow for more or increase duration and make decaying. His E is generally ok, because the rest of his kit needs more attention. His R is... I'm not sure. I like that Gunblade works with his ult, but I would honestly like to... Not build Gunblade to get healing from it. Also not applying any spell effects, 2 sec cd on Yoricks on-hit damage, becoming targeted and killed by towers so fast... I dunno, for 160-140 seconds of downtime after she dies, it feels pretty underwhelming. I guess his ult would be fine as is, but it feels pretty meh for having such a long cooldown. Especially early, if it had 140 sec cooldown at all ranks, that would feel better without scaling into Spammer of Command late game. I would personally like to see the "Yorick frontlines for his Waifu"-mechanic better supported by making him a little more durable in teamfights and duels. Otherwise, Deathfire Touch surprise damage from Yorick's ult would be fun, (but might want to disable Muramana as a special case). Also, if the Maiden is splitting by herself, it would be nice if she could drop tower aggro if melee minions/cannon minions/ghouls attack the turret. She'll still die before caster minions, but is smart enough to not suicide just as a huge wave is coming up, ready to support her push. Then again... I don't know, I don't balance stuff. But this is how I FEEL when playing Yorick. He feels unrewarding and underwhelming unless his opponents severely misplay. Illaoi and Darius the poster couple of juggernauts can both be played around, but through a flash, or a ghost or a tp, they can surprise enemies and lead to highly rewarding moments. Yorick just can't. He has too little combat sustain mid and late game, unless he builds SV, Gunblade and Death's Dance, he requires too much set-up to become strong, his early laning is too weak compared to how bad he scales as both duelist and teamfighter. Yorick is basically in the same spot as Mordekaiser, except Yorick has a small cage and doesn't need a kill to get a ghost, Yorick is more reliable. However, after 3 items, Mordekaiser is more tanky, heals more, deals more burst damage, deals more sustained damage and completely turn games around with a good ult. The trade-offs doesn't add up, Yorick is "ok" utility-wise as a strategic niche, but strategic niche aren't enough. He has good base stats, but nothing that makes him extra tanky. He has good damage, but no CC or mobility to apply said damage. He simply lacks power in my opinion, not necessarily straight up insane levels of damage, but very distinct and clear "I have the advantage, I will kill you if you underestimate me"-moments and means to set up said moments.
: Thoughts on Quinn Changes on PBE(11/12 build) @RiotRepertoir
If I were to chime in, I think this change is great, finally a chance to outplay rather than only outstat. However I'd love to see a powerspike level 6. Quinn is essentially a decent champion pre 6, but after level 6 you feel a significant power drop. Similar to post 6 Udyr, but not a disgusting ball of free stats, damage and tankiness pre 6. Despite her ult being a stronger roaming tool late game, early-mid game Twisted Fate simply does it much better with far more potent ganks and global true vision is an immeasurably level of utility. I'd love a combat passive similar to Tahm, Rek, Elise, Jayce or Nida. Or another passive/active to compete with the utility of TF's global true vision.
Rioter Comments
: Quinn PBE Feedback Thread
Alright, my thoughts on Quinn after 30.10 buffs: Her Harrier feels way better early. But that's pretty much it. Death's Dance dot still deny you Tag team, which is pretty counter intuitive. Q feels very gimmicky in general. The cooldown refund on kill is pretty wierd, the execute component is almost never noticable, it's still a collision skill shot making it awkward to use during laning. Instead of being either A) an interesting ability or B) a simple nuke. Her ult still feels underwhelming at 6, she doesn't get any powerspikes other than getting back to lane (slightly) faster. I feel like I am forced to roam away from my lane, because if I don't, my opponent will use his/her ult to kill me. And I have no powerspikes or inherent damage threats to pressure them back with. I'm going to make some suggestions on Quinns combat prowess and strength pre-homeguard. Passive: Remain as is at 150% of AD Q: Cooldown changed to 12 / 10 / 8 / 6 / 4 Refund on kill removed Base damage changed to 70/100/130/160/190 Scaling changed to 0.8/0.9/1.0/1.1/1.2 AD Execute component removed R: New Passive: Quinns Harrier deal an additional 1% of Quinns AD increased damage for every 5/3/1% hp the target is missing. This will simplify Quinns Q, removing all the random elements and make it a consistent low cooldown, ok damage ability. Her R passive will give Quinn a powerspike whenever she gets ranks in her ultimate. This is my current gripes and suggestions of improvement. Everything else in her kit I can live with.
: Sion Champion Update on the PBE!
Any announcements coming up from Riot regarding the concerns regarding his health per level? I'm really excited, but right now Darius and Malphite does what Sion does, only better and it breaks my heart. If his W stacks health faster, or health per level gets buffed, he'll be a perfect late game hyper tank bruiser thing. As long as 300 CS equal 3000 hp without hp items, he can have 180 hp at level 18 for all I care. I just want the 300 cs mark to make me feel like a beast.
: Sion Champion Update on the PBE!
Sions health per level is far too low. 1560 health at level 18 is not enough on someone who should stack AD and resist items while relying a high health pool from levels and farm.
: Thoughts on Sion
The only complain I have about him is his low level 18 health. He has, like, 1560 health at level 18 and no W stacking can remedy that.
Rioter Comments
: [Essence Reaver] [Feedback] Please don't release this item with this recipe!
: Quinn passive, E and ult change suggestion
These suggestions are pretty biased on making her a more viable adc, while retaining her strong solo laning. However, I'd honestly just like to make her role and lane a little more defined. Better positioning options or range, worse self peel for adc. Better escape options or improved cooldowns, worse attack speed and movement speed steroids for midlane. Better base stats or steroids, worse scaling for toplane. Adc, assassin, bruiser. Basically buff her weaknesses at the moment or tweak and tune to make her more defined.
Rioter Comments
: Hi there! I just ran through some tests with Hydra and I was able to use it fine on all of Quinn's skins. Was there a particular circumstance you may have noticed along with the manifestation of this behavior?
I used it alone in dominion once, and vs bots in summoners rift. Both of the instances it worked when in early/mid valor, however when I used it during the last ticks of valor I remained unable to use the hydra active. On-hit effect was available in valor and unavailable in quinn form. After reading up on it, I've seen reports of a hydra/tiamat bug which might make her be an melee valor form, but with ranged properties on passives/abilities. Didn't try to reproduce the bug until last night, so sorry for the obscure initial post and late reply. :p
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Woad Scout Quinn!
Some minor bugs I think: Can't use hydra in valor, despite mercurial schmidtar gives ms boost Can't use taunts after recall animation unless moving or using a ability first I'll try her some more to see if I find anything else.
: Small bug on Quinn's e
It happens some times on her other skins as well according to my experience.
: Runes missing?
Same here, all pages, no runes.


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