: EXPERIMENTAL Sona changes. Feedback wanted
My overall impression of your tweak is really just a buttload of mechanical jank for no particular reason. Plug it into a spreadsheet and it looks pretty, but in reality it feels like the exact same issues, made even more annoying. Q in particular feels like it's vaguely more powerful at Lv9 if you were previously completely ignoring the aura part, but I'm not entirely sure how I'm gunna use this aura unless I like dying to double stuns. W doesn't feel any better at all. It still chugs ungodly amounts of mana, it still heals for piss, and I can't even tell if the shield is actually any larger than it was previously. E does feel better...again, if you were someone who completely ignored the aura part and ran around selfishly. As an aura, it feels identical, and quite frankly it looks identical when the only aura increase is +2%. Really, the whole problem with your experimental tweak is that it **heavily emphasizes Sona's solo play, when Sona's solo play is godawful**. I mean, she's a support FFS, supports can't do much of anything on their own, and she doesn't have the kit to permit farming. With these sorts of changes, I think I'd be better off just playing Support Annie.
: 日本人です。PBEでプレイして感じた日本語クライアント要望を書きます。 他の方もおっしゃっているように、 英名とひらがなでピック時にチャンピオン検索をさせて欲しいです。 カタカナのみのチャンピオン検索はNAで慣れているからという事だけではなく、 入力文字数が多いと変換が大変でとてもストレスを感じます。 ボイスに関してはとても良いと思います。 それと試合中のチャットの表示が遅いのはPBEの仕様なんでしょうか?
I'm not Japanese, or even Japanese-literate, but I'm testing the JPN client. > それと試合中のチャットの表示が遅いのはPBEの仕様なんでしょうか? It seems like the chat box was made for language packs with characters that aren't as wide as Japanese. It's probably coded for something like "after X characters, display new line" but it's chopping off long lines until another line shows up. I know this because if I rapidly type lines one after the other, the "delay" is gone.
Rioter Comments
: Same match up EXP is SUPER snowbally
Hmmm, now that you mention it, I was wondering why I was suddenly 3 levels behind the Olaf who was dumpstering me, even though I was only 20-30 cs behind. Maybe they massively buffed EXP from kills?
: Quinn PBE Feedback Thread
Alright, so I just fumbled around with this in a bot game... So, it's Lucian. P (wait) > AA > E > P > Q > P > stick thumb up ass, where you land a bunch of AD scaling abilities, your next AA deals extra damage every time you cast one, and you get bonus movespeed while chasing from on-hit procs. You deleted Graves because he was too "Lucian" and not shotgunny enough, yet you then turn around and "Lucian" Quinn? Wat? The "dive in and assassinate" playstyle is oddly dead, though, because you can't dash in as Valor and instead must depend on getting within Skystrike range, THEN doing an attack. Which actually kinda sucks because unless your opponents have the reaction time of Bronze V, SOMEONE is going to slap you for getting that close. Her new Q is a total failure as waveclear. It does less damage to full health minions. If you intended for Quinn to clear waves with this alone then it's a total failure, and if you expected Quinn to R > Q spam then her Ult is too absurdly overpriced for that purpose. The average case of using Q twice is completely unchanged. The new Ult succeeds at showing what Strut could've been but was never allowed to be. You back, press R, run wherever, and then continue being Quinn. Using it in the middle of the map is kinda difficult when mana items don't fit in her build path at all (not even Triforce - her ability spacing is too tight for procs), and her base mana is horrifically bad. Maybe there's a future for Mid Quinn now, where she becomes a knockoff Kassadin/TF. Assorted suggestions: - **Ult now modifies Vault to work like Valor's Vault (no bounceback)**. Running around at lightspeed, only to suddenly decide to bounce off your opponent like a feather feels really weird. It would be nice to have the option to continue the movement momentum of the giant movespeed buff by just slamming into someone's face, and this change adequately re-enables the older "jump in and rip someone's face off" that previously made Valor so satisfying. Also, if you'd rather use Quinn's Vault, you can always either Ult > E or AA > E to cancel Valor. - **Ult animation reverts to just being Valor.** To accomodate the changes, your first AA is now a version of Valor dashing at the enemy (visual conflicts with Q/E if changed as above? Maybe he does an Aileron Roll?) Because _**QUINN AND VALOR**_ players really don't want a _**LAMB**_ and wolf situation.
: First off, thanks for the thoughtful post (formatting much appreciated!). > too heavy-handed? 2.5s in the mid-to-late game (you max Q second, usually) was about right, especially considering the trouble you usually have catching people; certain matchups where Garen was actually a decent counter are probably going to swing hard in the other direction now because you can't stop their shenanigans; Maybe it is, but I think 1.5 seconds still feels pretty substantial. If, for some reason, it's too short, it could maybe bump upward a bit. > Courage change: didn't we move away from the "farm yourself to become strong" feature because it was really weird and obtuse? Now I need to farm 50 minions properly just to get to 10 armor. 10!! And I have to skill this up if I want it to be any good, and leveling it up doesn't make it increase any faster. Yikes. This seems like a pretty huge nerf considering you also hit him in the health per level department. I also absolutely hate the active tenacity component having been removed. The flat Armor/MR model actually makes more sense in a world where Garen wants to build a lot of Health items (which he should have readily available to him in this patch). I think you may be right that it takes too long to farm currently, though. I'll keep an eye out for that. This shouldn't be too much of a nerf, since the Health items coming this patch (Sterak's Gage, Ravenous Hydra, Warmog's update, etc.) should allow him to build an abundance of Health and get more of what he needs in fewer items. I totally understand not liking the Tenacity nerf, but we do feel it's important that Tanks and CC-heavy supports feel good about their efforts to peel the big tanky dudes running at their teams. > the whole spinning faster as you get higher level is an adorable way to give it better scaling into the late game, but I feel like this kind of forces him into the land of flat armor penetration on him now -- of which we don't have a lot. Hopefully armor being worse all across the board means this skill has become better altogether. This skill also has a 5.5 Total AD ratio in the late game, so I don't think it's only amped by Penetration. Black Cleaver should be even better on him now, due to the higher AD ratio, as well as the fact that he'll stack the passive faster due to the increased tick rate of Judgment. > Why in God's name do I move slower when I spin towards people I'm hitting?? Is he somehow too sticky now? This change is intended to improve play during the back half of Judment. Keep in mind, the cooldown of this spell is lower, so you'll get to cast it more often, and there's also a cooldown incentive to turning it off early if the enemy has escaped it, meaning it will become available to cast even sooner. He does a significant amount more damage now, and he was probably too sticky to merit it. Garen was allowed to have that level of stickiness before because his damage just wasn't relevant in the later stages of the game most often, but it should be now. > I am going to play him a lot these next few days and I'll report on how I feel about it given some time, but PBE is not a great testing environment because of the level of play, so even if I felt like things got a lot better, I wouldn't actually be sure. I main Garen and play him constantly, so I'm probably a little biased, but I also feel like I've figured his play patterns out enough as he is now that I don't like the sound of how certain things are put together... I'd definitely appreciate an update when you've had a chance to check it out. I definitely understand your concerns, so if you get a chance to check it out and see which nerfs were the most painful and which weren't quite as big a deal, that would be awesome information, especially from a Garen main.
> This change is intended to improve play during the back half of Judment. Keep in mind, the cooldown of this spell is lower, so you'll get to cast it more often, and there's also a cooldown incentive to turning it off early if the enemy has escaped it, meaning it will become available to cast even sooner. He does a significant amount more damage now, and he was probably too sticky to merit it. Garen was allowed to have that level of stickiness before because his damage just wasn't relevant in the later stages of the game most often, but it should be now. Except you already deleted his sticking power from the silence duration and his tenacity. "The back half" of Judgement play is flat-out bull - even if you CDR half the duration, you're still sitting around with a thumb up your ass for several seconds doing absolutely nothing, while getting kited, while waiting for Decisive Strike to come off cooldown so you can finally start trying to run at the target to even have a chance at spinning on their face. Yes, I actually HAVE tried the new Garen. Theoretically you have that 5.5 Total AD ratio, but realistically you're losing at least two ticks to the slow, (now ~4.4 Total AD) on top of having his base damage horribly gutted. Which, annoyingly, ends up actually putting him at LESS damage in any not-full-glass build, and horribly loses out in Crit builds, especially ones that include Ghostblade (y'know, because Ghostblade has every stat Live Garen wants). By the way, "he was probably too sticky" is such an unbelievably wrong statement it honestly worries me. If Garen stands in a bush, has a solo, immobile champion walk up to is face, and spins on them, then yes he's sticky. For everything else, at least half his movespeed gets burnt on closing the gap, having more than one slow destroys Decisive Strike, Roots/Stuns still destroy him despite the tenacity, knockups can't be dealt with, and against full knockbacks you might as well not even try. Even without those, any vaguely mobile champion will just kite him to kingdom come. **The stickyness is completely and totally necessary because of the painfully awful time Garen has getting in range of anything to start spinning.** Another thing is that your slow ends up punishing Garen for being, uhhh, a teamfight Juggernaut. If he dives past the frontline and flashes on the squishy, he's getting auto peeled off them...and is also being prevented from getting himself back out of the fight because enemy Champions are in every direction. "But he can turn Judgement off!" Sweet, I too love doing zero damage in teamfights. It also isn't helping much because I kinda already blew Decisive Strike trying to get in here. Oh, and I can't really build Ghostblade any more so I literally can't do anything with my skills on CD. TL:DR The 20% self-slow when chasing is objectively stupid because he isn't sticky at all in not-1v1-situations, and he still has painfully awful gap closing potential. You already gutted his sticking power; you don't need to give him self-kiting too.
: Blitzcrank W nerf
I'd just like to say that his movespeed decays WAYYYY too quickly. It's effectively gone within 1.5s, and the other 1.5s is barely a 5% boost, if that - the last 0.5s is a piddling increase of ONE. UNO. ICHI. If you're gunna have his movespeed decay, have it decay linearly or have the floor at 10-15% or something. As it stands, it's actually just a 1.5s movespeed buff masquerading as a 3.0s one.
Rioter Comments
: Cinderhulk is great! after you build it, however because it costs 1000 gold to grab this item and 450 to upgrade machete i feel like this item doesn't really help tank junglers all that much, as it doesn't help them with first or even second clear of the jungle which is when most of these tank junglers fall so behind in being able to farm and gank versus the bruiser junglers like Vi and J4. This is most definitely a move in the right direction however it doesn't help with the issues that junglers like Sejuani and Zac are having, which is clear time and being healthy enough to gank afterwards. Sejuani can just barely finish one side of the jungle burning 2 pots and waiting for cd's before starting each camp, junglers that struggle this much to clear their own jungle need help faster than 1450 gold into the game.
Yeah, this doesn't help tank junglers on their 1st...2nd...hell, probably not until their 4th back. By that point, Cinderhulk is pretty much useless because you aren't even in the jungle any more! The 600g combine cost is also absurd because most junglers are also going to want stuff like vision control, boots, etc, and one does not simply sit on less than 600g without spending it when your whole role is map pressure. Modified Bami's Cinder: - Ruby Crystal + 200g (total 600g) - HP reduced to 180 from 300 - Both Cinderhulk and Sunfire Cape add a Ruby Crystal to their respective recipes. This should at least make the cinder available 1 back sooner for Junglers and make it more accessible to purchase without doing too much to top lane matchups (because a 10dps burn isn't gunna do squat on its own...)
: Bard Playstyle suggestions (after playing a few games)
His playstyle will probably be: - Run to lane/jungle and crap out some shrines, then B. - Walk to lane, play as a normal duo. - When roaming during laning phase, crap out a shrine, then use Magical Journey through allied jungle and head mid. - Once laning phase breaks (either turret dies), then he gets to really collect Chimes and make use of roaming. At most, crap out a few shrines near the farming ADC, but otherwise he'll probably spend more time sieging turrets.
Rioter Comments
: Yea, there is a queue modifier so SR matchmade modes have the best rewards and other queues receive smaller rewards with bot games being the lowest.
...do you mind tweaking it so Dominion and TT have marginally better IP/minute?
: Veigar changes hitting the PBE Soon
I'm actually a fan of his new Q, particularly because it provides a few options he didn't have: - Farm WHILE harassing (see: Double Up). - Farm AP twice as quickly (before CDR items). - Land damage without vision. - Semi-reliable harass at a longer range. The main issues are: - Combo is unreliable during teamfights, or in the middle of minions. - Combo is unreliable at short range. Veigar mains are going to be absolutely pissed about those changes since they previously defined Veigar's strengths, but in a vacuum it seems ok. **Event Horizon on the other hand...**you guys absolutely gutted it. In a vacuum, 0.75s delay for a 2.5s stun seems fine, but there are several problems due to the fact that it's in Veigar's kit... - It's now nearly impossible to self-peel with it. Even if you're still alive after 0.75s, a halfway decent opponent will never get stunned due to the nature of the hitbox - that wall is paper thin. - You thought landing Dark Matter was already hard with his old Event Horizon? Now try doing it while being forced to cast Dark Matter predictively (very easy to dodge) or reactively (stun ends before it hits at EH Rank 1-3), and on top of that try factoring in Tenacity. Even with a Rank 5 Event Horizon, I had a damn hard time landing Dark Matters against BOTS. I mean, Event Horizon would give any Support main a raging hard-on...but Veigar isn't a Support, and quite frankly trying to use Event Horizon like Disruptor's Static Field (Dota) is completely contradictory to the rest of his kit. Even though the design fantasy may be "Veigar's torture cage"...**his champion design doesn't actually support that concept, because Veigar can't afford to dawdle; otherwise, everything misses.** And if your concept is cartoon villainy, please keep in mind that cartoon villains are comically incompetent and impotent. That's not really a fantasy any gamer wants to play with when victory is on the line. So, here's a list of potential fixes for having a delay on Event Horizon: - Dark Matter AoE radius increased to match the radius of Event Horizon, ***or*** Event Horizon radius decreased to match the radius of Dark Matter. *If you really want your torture cage, the people trapped inside require certain doom if they don't get out in time.* - Fall delay on Dark Matter reduced to 0.75s. There's a smaller window to react now, so you need a shorter delay here. - Dark Matter changed to an AoE that ticks 5 times over 1.25s (or 4 times over 1.0s), then falls/explodes dealing additional burst damage. Landing it with the stun is optimal, but now it no longer "completely misses." Note that I didn't propose a delay reduction, because that's riding a fine line between "not feasible" and "false counterplay".
: DJ Sona Voice Bugged
Seems mostly intentional. The music gradually ramps up (dependent on...what? Time/Ult/Level?) and her voice effects are all synthesized bits. I dislike how all the tracks are so skeletal when you spawn, though. Would be nice if there was a bit more body to them when the game starts.
: DJ Sona /toggle not working
Apparently /toggle doesn't even exist as a command yet. /help does not bring up /toggle as an option, and "/help /toggle" doesn't show anything either.
: Ambient Sona Sounds Still There in DJ Sona
To anyone having difficulty hearing it - Turn music volume slider down - Do nothing - ??? - Hear Etwhal The fix seems pretty simple though - either add a "do not play" chunk to her code, or else create empty dummy audio for her.
: The 'Stack point' mechanic that you hate is merely a method of backloading the reward. I understand why you hate it - but backloaded bonuses are there for precisely the reasons of rewarding continuous control as well as provide meaning to the first few contests, even if the reward doesn't outright decide the game. The more blunt way of saying this is basically: One Dragon advantage shouldn't win you the game. But if you're up three Dragons, you deserve way more. Flat rewards don't accomplish this goal - nor do scaling bonuses. Backloaded bonuses do.
> But if you're up three Dragons, you deserve way more. Except, that's not actually the bonus. The bonus here is "Whoever gets their 5th Dragon is now miles ahead." That's still a benefit to the guy who's 3 Dragons ahead, but in a long, close game where Dragons are traded evenly...why is it that the 5th arbitrarily becomes a perma-baron? And if a team scores 5 Dragons in a row while the other team wipes out 6 turrets (or some other time-equivalent trade), why is it such a lopsided trade? Why is that trade massively in favour of the Turret team when it's only 4-5 Turrets vs. 4 Dragons, yet suddenly 180's and is massively in favour of the Dragon team 6 minutes later? The vision advantage that would've been the deciding factor can easily get overridden by the raw fighting power gained from the pseudo-baron. Granted, the 5-stack can't even happen until ~35 minutes, and I understand that most teams aren't just going to let 5-stack happen without a fight, but Dragon still seems to revolve around the "Strong > GG" or "Meaningless > Strong" pattern that plagues every single Stack Point mechanic. You're either wasting time trying to gather 5 Dragons and lose early-mid due to the numerical disadvantage, or you gather your 5 Dragons, roll that advantage into a Baron and then just deathball the nexus with raw stats.
: It does not currently give global gold. The dragon bonus is *instead* of the large sum of gold.
I see it, and I'm sitting here wondering if anything has actually changed as a result. You've gone from granting everyone raw gold, to granting everyone effective gold. Hell, I'd go as far as to say that your proposed Dragon change actually REDUCES strategic options because Gold can be spent freely (vision control, damage, defenses, or any combo of em), but a buff will only ever do what it says on the label. Even "Dragon stacking" is a net zero because securing dragon inherently makes it easier for that team to secure subsequent Dragons. Unless, of course, there's a "Stack Point" like Cass where the buff arbitrarily takes a massive spike in power. I absolutely f***ing hate those, because the balance result is either going to be "Strong > GG" or "Meaningless > Strong" before and after the breakpoint. Source: EVERY SINGLE STACKING MECHANIC WITH ARBITRARY BREAKPOINTS LIKE THAT.
: Preseason 2015 Experimental Jungle Changes
> The premiere ganker who also buys ganking jungle items might run into trouble when being counter-jungled I was mostly hopeful up until this line. I'm sorry, but there's one glaring issue with your idea: **combating counter-jungling is functionally identical to ganking.** Yes, counter-jungling itself will probably involve some sort of damage buff vs. monsters so you can grab and run faster, but dealing with a guy trying to steal your stuff involves either slapping him repeatedly (+ Damage) or disengaging (CC). Both those options automatically result in stronger ganks, unless you plan on having some weird conditional like "Does not apply if a Monster/Champion is within X range." Also, lets talk about those Jungle items. I'll blindly assume that they'll be separate entities dedicated to **Clearing/Farming, Ganking and Counter-Jungling**. Here are the immediate problems I see: - The Clear/Farm item will never see the light of day in competitive play. At least, not unless the item is either overtuned or aggression in general is nerfed to S2 hell. Both "Speed" and "Sustain" are completely useless in any vs. Champion engagement, thus forcing the buyer to dedicate themselves to a non-presence on the map. The only other option is Dragon/Baron, but that's presumably for Counter-Jungling, NOT Clear/Farm...if Clear/Farm ever becomes viable for that then the Counter-Jungling item will be completely useless. - A Ganking item that sucks at Clearing or Objectives is wide open to exploitation by laners...especially potential roamers like Alistar, Kassadin, Zed, etc. If you apply a Clearing conditional to it, then you've completely defeated the purpose of obtaining the item at all, and you'd force people who "can't" clear the jungle to do so anyways. Also, because I'm going to assume that +Ganking is good vs. Champions, I'd also easily say that +Ganking is automatically going to be +Counter-Jungling (as detailed above) - The Counter-Jungling item, at least based on your description of "Smite bonuses", is going to be horribly vulnerable against both Clear/Farm and Ganking. Clear/Farm will just murder the camp before you can see it, and Ganking will murder you for trying to counter-jungle. The only "out" I can see here is a Smite Damage Bonus, but that's treading on "Every jungler must buy this now" territory unless you heavily de-emphasize Dragon/Baron objective control.
: Sion Champion Update on the PBE!
Haven't tried him enough to talk balance, so I'll stick to quibbling: His Q has a crapton of conveyance issues: - The "instacast" tapped Q has almost no visible animation, to the point where I'm not sure if neither Sion nor his targets would realize that anything has happened. - After 1s, his Q keeps charging damage...but that's not indicated on the animation. Maybe a 2nd set of outlines would help? His E interaction with minions is kinda odd. The targeted minion takes zero damage until the blowback finishes even though collisions are instant damage, and the hitbox seems a bit disjointed at times. His Ult needs a larger hitbox in front of and/or behind him. I have extreme difficulty flashing over Tidal Wave, but flashing over Unstoppable Onslaught was absurdly easy...to the point where I'd say that anybody with a blink completely negates his Ult, since he can't 180. Dashing/flashing/running to the side is definitely intended counterplay, but I don't think it's fair for Sion to get countered AND be left in the worst possible position.
: Gnar gameplay and balance feedback
My main concern with Gnar is that it doesn't feel like enough control is given to the player over his Ult. Inevitably going into Mega Gnar is fine, but it would be nice if there was a skilled way to prolong Mini Gnar without flat out removing yourself from the action. Conversely, I would also like for there to be a way to force out Mega Gnar a bit sooner if you're in no position to AA stuff. Personally, I'd like for the "out of combat" timer to tick down a bit faster (maybe 0.5 - 1s), and then have Rage generation shifted a little bit towards abilities. After that, make GNAR! available when Mini Gnar is at ~80 - 90 Rage, as a way to force out Mega Gnar without heavily telegraphing it. The idea of not allowing the player to freely shift between both modes as though it's an extended hotbar is great, but players should still have a reasonable amount of control over which form they want to use.
: It's not that I don't care. Some of the suggestions don't fit the vision for the champion, some are just straight up OP, and some were tested and didn't work as well as the current option. It's been something I need to do better with to make sure that you and the rest of the community at least hears more in these situations. I'll admit to getting overwhelmed with the actual implementation and analysis for Sona, and not spending enough time addressing the feedback.
I'm going to be flat out hostile about this: YOU'VE DONE JACK DIDDLY TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM OF SONA ACTUALLY GETTING TO USE HER AURAS ON ALLIES. Every single tester has said that they're having a horrible time trying to haul buffs to their teammates, yet absolutely zero changes have been made to improve this. Her movespeed self buff isn't even enough to chase down nearby allies for single-buffing, and there's no way in hell she'll be able to reposition for "moments of power" if her team won't dry hump each other. Also, her moment of power barely matches old Sona in the early game, and all the effects then proceed to fall off a cliff into a pit of bubbling lava as soon as you hit the 20 minute mark. Not to mention that the duration of the Q/W auras is so painfully weak when compared to the time Sona actually needs to GET IN RANGE TO TRIGGER THE AURA. It feels like you tested this stuff against bots and then called it a day. Yes, I'm being that aggressive and hostile about this. Your kit flat out doesn't work, and quite frankly we'd like to see what your so-called "OP" changes actually do, because right now you're shipping Sona as a flat-out worse version of her former self.
: Sona Update is back! Feedback and changes here!
One game, 5v5 Team Builder, No Bugs Laning was Sona, but her all-in potential is a mess because it's dependent on whether or not you can even get in range to Q-aura your carry. And sometimes, you don't want to be dry humping him because then Braum/Corki/Leona/Graves/whatnot will AoE your sorry butts into next Tuesday. Mid-late game flat out felt worse. Your auras are so tiny that you'll never clip more than 2 other allies with them (unless you like eating 5-man Shockwaves) and Mobi + E still isn't enough movespeed sometimes to catch up to your own allies just to buff them! Actually, screw the template, here's my core complaint: **The auras are so dang tiny.** I was expecting at least an Abyssal Scepter, not Sion's Ultimate! As it stands, the aura system is so darn crippled and situational that it's impossible to deliver on *Clutch*, *Sustained*, or *Team* utility. Hell, most of the time you end up only being able to blow everything on yourself, when the numbers are clearly tuned to be used on 3-5 people simultaneously... Speaking of those effects, it feels like you're creating a terrible version of Nami. Magic on-hit in an aura is nice during the early-mid, but it falls off so darn far that it ends up being A SINGlE HIT OF LEONA'S PASSIVE. The shield is tiny, doesn't scale, and is horribly impractical for use when shielding...more than yourself, really. And, as previously mentioned, selfishly buffing your movespeed still isn't good enough to GET IN RANGE OF ALLIES TO BUFF THEM. So basically, you have a teammate dependent laning phase, and then for the rest of the game you might as well not have Q/W auras, or your E at all. Even if you expanded her QWE aura range to her old version, she'd still be pretty awful by virtue of none of her effects actually being any good at anything. Here's me retooling the aura effects: - Q aura is now a flat **Mpen/Arpen** buff. As it stands, the magic on-hit is situational both to apply and to execute (tell Galio to go slap someone...) so you're better off with an effect that actually helps all your teammates. Picking Pen over AP/AD was intentional to emphasize offense instead of stacking AP on Heal comps. Also, I'd argue that magic on-hit is equally invisible compared to a stat buff. - W aura is modified to a much larger shield (2-3x) but **only blocks a single champion/Large monster hit...and ignores turrets.** This would emphasize clutch utility without encouraging spam, and allows for counterplay. Ult improvement would be +0.5/1.0/1.5s duration increase (1.5/2.0/2.5/3.0s total). - E aura still grants movespeed, **but is amplified if moving towards Sona.** Basically, Captain's boots. It would create a more interesting dynamic for Sona players so that they'd care about their positioning, instead of ye old Sona stance. I sorta wanted to make it inverted Captain's, but then I realized that it would work against Sona's Q/W auras...and that you probably want a mechanic that encourages allies to trigger Sona's auras for her.
: Skarner PBE Feedback/Bugs Thread
My main confusion regarding Skarner 2.5 is that you basically axed his sustained damage, lightly tweaked his burst damage, and made his scaling go from meh to worthless. His kit reads like you want him to be a tank, but he's still so damn item dependent (Mana/CDR for skills, raw defense so he doesn't explode when he tries to Impale, etc) that all you've really done is make him feel like a flying brick. What I find even more confusing is that you heavily nerfed his W/E while in combat (no passive CDR) and then saw fit to demolish their burst potential on top if it. It's like you want him to be a utility tank that stuns/slows/suppresses, yet the purpose of his new movespeed steroid (and pseudo-new AS steroid) is completely defeated by his severe lack of persistent threat. Unless, of course, you plan on making Sunfire core and just force Skarners to sit on top of people as he farts them to death or something. The Skarner fantasy is closer to Olaf, not Nautilus.
: PBE Player Base.
It might have something to do with MMR. I heard more complaints about missing SFX and "wtf Nid can do that?" than play ability complaints. This account has been kicking around the PBE for around 2-3 years now and I've racked up a fair chunk of MMR on it.
: Nidalee Gameplay Update Feedback/Bugs Thread!
Assumptions: - Power has been intentionally removed from her spears. - Her primary power source is intended to be melee (ie: Hunt) Core strengths: - I'm enjoying the range dictation. Traps for spacing, EmpPounce for closing the difference, and stuff like Swipe > Reverse Pounce for fast getaway trades. - There's definitely a lot of kill pressure on Hunted targets. - Early-mid game spears don't seem weaker at all. - Changing Pounce/Swipe controls from "Forward" to "On-Mouse" took a bit of getting used to, but IMO they're far more responsive and consistent now. - The amount of damage Cougar can dish out with Mage Runes/Masteries and a mere {{item:3092}} is kinda nutty. I'm predicting {{item:3174}} {{item:3157}} rushes for AP Top/Mid in the future, because oddly you don't need THAT much AP for Nid to hurt. Core weaknesses: - EmpPounce is the only remotely practical use for Hunt. EmpTakedown and EmpSwipe both require you to either Spear > RegPounce > Walk/BushWalk > Emp which has a longass delay that can just be walked away from, or else have your opponent stand on a trap for some reason while you're already on top of them. - The bonuses on EmpTakedown and EmpSwipe are both extremely dull "Moar Damages" - Traps don't *feel* like they're doing any more damage than the old ones. Or maybe that was intended. - Traps are an absurdly unreliable method of applying Hunt, especially considering that they'll frequently get popped when you're nowhere near the trap. The only remotely reliable method is her spear...but... - The Spear hitbox went from disjointed to phantom. There were a few too many times when the particle passed cleanly through an enemy character model yet it didn't register. I'm not expecting a hitbox increase, but the particle still needs more adjustments to match the hitbox. Other notes: - For what little I tried of Nidalee, it seems as though CC is less of a factor than most people expected. You can still sit on the outside and throw spears/traps like a wuss, only now you can actually get in melee range when needed...instead of needing to already be in melee to get in melee. - Having said that, **targeted** CC would probably be the bane of her existence. Well, it would be if 90% of targeted stuns weren't attached to champions who got nerfed out of existence. - The reset on Pounce is NOT a disengage tool. Not in the slightest. Cougar is entirely dependent on either winning fights harder, or being tanky enough to eat teamfights with her face. This is also why I think that AP Nids are almost completely dependent on rushing {{item:3157}} - No input on her bruiser build, but I'm expecting it to just be {{item:3078}} > Tanky/CDR. Her AD scaling is too ungodly horrible to justify stuff like {{item:3074}}{{item:3035}}. - {{item:3153}} could become a thing, but I don't see it being worthwhile.
: Thoughts and suggestions on the state of the Kha'Zix Nerfs
I wholeheartedly agree that the Evolved Taste Their Fear is doing ridiculously nutty damage against isolated targets...but the problem is that the isolation radius is so damn wide that you don't get the bonus if there is anything at all nearby. Minions, monsters, 2v2s, half mile off a turret...the only time this bonus actually kicks in is either Dragon/Baron (...holy mother of Dragon/Baron abuse case...) or if you're smacking the last monster in a Jungle camp. Or if your opponents are retarded. However, I don't agree that the change needs to be a buff to non-isolated damage. I'd rather that they shaved back a little bit of the Isolation range so that being out of position is punishable, instead of requiring them to be completely out of the fight for isolation. I recognize that the old isolation range was stupidly small, so maybe we can find middle ground here? For once? Rito pls? You can go ahead and adjust the damage (holy mother of double scaling) once it's plausible for isolation to occur against competent opponents. I'm also not sure if the idea of making Evol TTF a one-point wonder (base isolation scales off champion level) is a good idea here. ---- Alright, so Riot wants Void Spikes to be Kha's utility tool, hence the boost to slow strength and the reveal. Problem is, we still haven't targeted the REAL reason why anybody took the release Evol in the first place: DAMAGE BOOST. Very few people are going to give a damn about an extra 30% slow, and the reveal isn't going to do much in 90% of situations, barring maybe a Baron face check...and we're supposed to have Scrying Orb for that one. "But bush checking!" But your whole goddamn mana bar and only CC, thrown into an empty bush. 20% bonus damage to monsters is kinda neat, but I didn't really get much jungle speed out of maxing it first - it was mostly Evol TTF murdering the Wight camp. TBH, I'd rather slap on something like an Armor Shred. Kha can already spam out slows between his Ult and regular W, so additional utility should be targeted at not-CC (assassin with a stun? NTY). Besides, the reveal is somewhat redundant when you can already check bushes by listening for the explosion sound. ---- Even though nothing changed about Evolved Leap, I'm still not 100% sure if we want it to be "The Evolution that every Kha player takes, eventually." I mean, full squish, bruiser or otherwise, nobody wants to give up a mobility reset. Then again, it's probably the most balanced evolution and can be taken at variable points in the game, so we probably shouldn't be fixing what isn't broken. ---- Evolved Ult is a bit of a weird one. The question is this: what are we emphasizing here? Evol Q is damage, Evol W is utility, and Evol E is mobility. Should we go back to Evol Ult = Defense? Do we make it the jack-of-all? Or what if we instead focused on making Evol Ult a **complete playstyle shift?** The thing about the nature of his Ult is that, unlike his bursty QWE, it focuses on sustained fight presence. Indeed, the bruiser build almost entirely revolves around parking yourself in the middle of a fight and duking it out until a reset gets forced. So, here's my nutty suggestion: - Base cooldown of QWE increased by 1-2s. (keep Evol Q change) - Evol Ult decreases the cooldown of QWE by 1-2s. - Each Ult cast decreases the cooldown of QWE by 0.5-1s (see: Mystic Shot). - Keep 3x Ult. - Increase W damage vs. Monsters to ~30-40% to compensate for early game. Essentially, if you want to brawl like a bruiser then you take his Ult, but you'll lose some of your burst damage in the process (either Evol Q isolation, Evol W shred or Evol E reset burst). Numbers can be adjusted accordingly.
: Let's talk about Lee Sin retune
>Lee Sin falls off really hard late game, so this puts even more pressure on him to win (or snowball his entire team) before that happens. There are some champions who follow this power curve, but none as extreme as Lee Sin (maybe pre-rework Garen). Letting Lee only ‘play’ half the game (in an unbalanced way) so he doesn’t become useless in the other half is really unhealthy (for both Lee and his opponents). Stop. Stop right there. Why is this unhealthy, and why is this a problem? Why is it wrong to have a strong early game and weak late? Why is it so wrong that the depreciation in power is so extreme? And how the hell is Lee Sin only "playing half the game" when he already has a decent chunk of utility and scales reasonably well if he goes for a glass build? This attitude is what really, really pisses me off about Riot's balance decisions right now: you're almost universally based around FLATTENING power curves, in both directions. That's great and all if you're balancing around Bronze-Silver or pre-30 play since it makes them feel good, but in terms of overall balance this is extremely similar to homogenization. Power curves are a core component of overall balance, and they're one of the most defining features of the MOBA/CORTS genre. Every single rework I've seen in the last two years has proposed to remove the need to care about different power curves. I haven't played much Lee ever since his release day, but there's no way in hell I'm giving up my early game monster that falls off like a cliff. Not that easily.
: The fail calculation for double crit chance is absolutely the case. With every crit item, it will always calculate at less than double what the item claims to add. With no crit from passives or runes or shit, Crit Cape gives 15% which should hit 30% on double - nope, 27%. Not even rounding error causing that, something more there.
Odd thing though: Stattik Shiv (20%) + Yoummu's Ghostblade (15%) + Atma's Impaler (15%) (Total: 50%) multiplies to exactly 100% Crit. Not sure what the heck is going on with the back end calculations there.
: I can also confirm this, silly Yasuo you auto attack with your sword, not your words.
: [BUG MAJOR] Skarner not appearing in champ select
Also confirmed. I wana test the guy dammit :/ I tried mashing the random button but couldn't pull him up that way either.
: But the only people who buy wriggles are people who buy attack speed. People who build wriggles can use the other slot to build some actual attack damage(Hydra), like on Shyvana, Yi, or Aatrox. You also neglect how poorly it would transition the early to mid game for people who rushed the item for gold gain because they wouldn't have the attack speed to maintain their health/damage procs from the item itself. You forget that there has to be a break-point in item transitions that aren't support gold income items because they are designed around the support only getting gold from the support item. These items are balanced around the idea of getting gold income from jungle camps, and, by reducing the cost and adding income to madreds, there comes a point of "Why is Madred's even a step? I could buy a madreds, walk out and kill wraiths and have enough gold for the Wriggles. In summary: Attack speed is necessary on wriggles to complement its effects and to make it so that BorK is more of a "Do I really need this item?" choice. The cost is for gameplay balance, because otherwise you'd be getting too much gold way too easily (and early). Its still a viable item in the late game if you are still behind because of the way camps scale and the fact that dragon could be worth well into the 300's (which wriggles will give you upwards of a hundred gold for.) Basically current wriggles is balanced around providing farming junglers a sense of sustain which they wouldn't have otherwise while still having a balanced cost that wouldn't set them ahead of the ball. If they balanced it in the way you stated, you would be severely disappointed in the fact that they would still have to increase the price drastically so there IS a break point, which would then make it pointless to purchase the item because it would provide no real benefit. Jungle items are meant to synergize with themselves in a fashion that makes it feel like you aren't building any other item to help you jungle better, but rather help you gank better or function in late game as an actual fifth player. As opposed to: "I built a wriggles, now I HAVE to build a zephyr/BorK in order to actually clear shit..."
I wasn't just talking about the Support items with regards to break-point item transitions - I was also referring to Philostone, Kage's Lucky Pick and Avarice Blade. Those items cost 700, 765 and 800g respectively, and both Kage's and Avarice build into items that are considered mid-late game viable (Morello, Ghostblade, Shiv, Atma). AKA First Back levels of gold. Gold generation items need to be picked up early or you're sitting on a massive invisible gold deficit come the midgame. There's just no two ways about it. Also, "Walking out, killing Wraiths and getting Madred's" is far in excess of hyperbole to make a point. Several people have already mathed out that it takes 10 minutes of straight farming for the 40% increased gold to match up with the 700g deficit from buying a Wriggle. For my presently proposed 10% passive, we can estimate that the net benefit after 10 minutes is no better than ~175g. At most, that covers the combine cost, and that's assuming you start with a Madred (aka 2 pots), never back and farm for 10 minutes straight. I also don't believe that Wriggle's "Needs" the AS. Yes, AS building champions are the ones who want to buy a Wriggle. Thing is, a large chunk of them are also champions with AS steroids (eg: Nocturne, Udyr, Aatrox) AA resets (eg: Shyvana, Poppy) or both (eg: Jax). I think the only "AS Dependent" champion who has no way to multi-proc the passive is Yi, but his Alpha Strike already lets him clear camps like crazy anyways. If you truly want to tack AS onto the item, then I'd propose sticking to my "Gold Generation on Madred's" idea at the very least. We'd need to find a way for the AS to be greater than 25% for 2 Daggers though, because a complete lack of stat gains is going to just feel awful. I've since considered Wriggle + Avarice > Wriggle's Ghostlight (T3 item) for a semi-Zeal from an intermediate step or something. TBH, I actually prefer the "cheap item gold gen" ideas better than my original Wriggle gutting, but those ideas came after the Wriggle gutting so I just dumped the whole lot of them into the same post.
: By ripping out the attack speed, you're cutting down overall DPS so it "can be used by junglers other than..." The point of the items are for selective variation. We currently have a jungle item for Damage, Health, and AP. Attack speed is nice for jungles that NEED attack speed. By "saving" 800 gold, you spend the same if not more trying to make back those stats. This cuts down itemization variation in champions and stagnates the gameplay because they feel like they HAVE to build something. "Oh, wriggles got the attack speed removed, now its worthless, I should just build an ancient golem instead of building two items so I can do something." Note that every jungle item has a requisite cost because their benefit to the jungler is so great. Either don't mess with the end stats of the item or don't change the item at all.
>"Oh, wriggles got the attack speed removed, now its worthless..." Funny, because my point is the exact opposite: Wriggle's is worthless BECAUSE of the attack speed. Or rather, the fact that you need to buy 2 daggers in order to get an item that's ~700g overvalued in terms of cost efficiency. So you say you want an AS item for Junglers. Here's the thing though: the AS on a Wriggle is 25%, and 2 Daggers cost 800g and provide 24% AS. Why bother with an AS item for Junglers when my proposal did little more than take the Daggers out of the Wriggle and tell you to buy something else with them? If you're really an AS dependent FARM JUNGLER (emphasis on the FARM, because otherwise you'd just build a Golem regardless) then putting the Daggers into a different item means nothing to you. Are you trying to run around with Boots + Wards + Pots + Jungle item + 2x Doran's Blade or something? Because of that's the case, you wouldn't even be considering a Wriggle at all. Besides, you seem to have completely missed the "MOST IMPORTANTLY" part, which emphasizes that above all else, what I'm seeking is a dramatically lowered price barrier for the gold generation passive. In fact, I've probably overpriced my proposal since it's presently ~600g overvalued, just to abide by Riot's ideal of not releasing anything as powerful until further tuning. "But wait, the Wriggle itself is still an awful item!" Yeah, but the idea is that you buy it early, farm it so you get more than its value, and then sell it off again when you need the slot. You'd already be doing that with Riot's presently proposed Wriggle, since I severely doubt that 20 Armor and 25% AS is going to do much during the endgame.
: Very interesting idea! I completely agree that 1800 is steep for a gold generation item like Lantern, however I feel like the combat stat path is simply too important to get rid of for the sake of cheapening the item. Those stats can mean the difference between a successful gank or complete failure to junglers with heavy laning activity early game. I enjoy your idea of a gp/5 jungle starter for farm-centric junglers as well, I feel like that role might be a little too specific to justify an entire item.
Well, the 900g you save can be put towards almost 2 Doran's Blades, which should be enough dead-end combat stats for your early game needs. Alternatively, you can buy 2x Longsword to build towards a Brutalizer or Cutlass, which still provides your combat stats. Either way, the reduced price gives you plenty of flexibility to work with the other 900g, and having the gold passive on the Madred doesn't demand that you immediately build it into a Wriggle anyways. As for the passive being "too specific"...if that's the case then what's going on with the Support ones? One requires you to last hit with allies nearby, one requires you to not last hit while standing near a minion wave, and one requires you to hit enemies without getting last hits on minions. I'm pretty sure all of those are really specific, so my proposal is still in line with Riot's proposals for Season 4.
Rioter Comments
: One for all - why it's NOT fun and what can we do to BE fun.
5x vs 5x still wouldn't solve the issue of the 70+ minute Brand turtlefest I had the other day. I agree that 5x vs 5y can frequently result in really lopsided matchups, but at least those games end. Just try to imagine 5v5 Anivia.
: This new 5v5 game
78:34 game time. All Brand. It was impossible to push because of the ungodly wave clear, and in the event that you DID manage to push, both teams had full AoE instagib capacity. It took multiple consecutive dumb mistakes and respawn timers over 1 minute long before the war of attrition ended.
: For those wondering > Sivir hurls her crossblade like a boomerang, which deals 15/40/65/90/115 (+0.5*AD) (+0.5*AP) physical damage to the first target hit and 10 % reduced damage to each subsequent target down to a minimum of 40 %. Compared to old > Sivir hurls her crossblade like a boomerang, which deals 60/105/150/195/240 (+0.5*AD) (+0.5*AP) physical damage to the first target hit and 20 % reduced damage to each subsequent target down to a minimum of 40 %. And I agree the single target damage of her Q was damn high before, but nerfing it this way means you improve her laneclearing, something she already had enough of. **Sivir was already known as the pushqueen, and you just switched some of her single target dps into AoE.** Not to mention you removed more than half the base damage! We are gonna need a new word for how fast she will be clearing waves now.
I already crunched those numbers, the wave clear is worse. Triple posted from my RoG post and the copypasta on General D. -------------- Even if we assume that Sivir's Q AD ratio is now 0.5 Total AD instead of 0.5 Bonus AD, that still puts the net base damage at ~50 - 170 ish...with 170 being Rank 5 at Lv18, so Lv9 would be closer to 155-160 ish. It's just a plain massive nerf no matter how you spin it, and I'm extremely confused as to why Riot would nerf out the no-minion-double-pass without providing any compensation for using it in any other situation. "But 10% falloff!" Swell, except 40% of 240 (old) is 96, and 40% of 170 (new) is 68. Heck, 70% (same value after 3 hits) of 170 is 119, which is barely more than a 20 difference on ONE UNIT ONLY - as soon as you bump the falloff to 60% (4 hits) the damage falls off to a negligibly different 102, and at flat 50% (5 hits...aka 5 minions) we're talking about 85 damage, which is quite a bit lower than the original 96 @ 40%. If Riot is really going to shove this change through, they need to bump the falloff point to AT LEAST 50%, and preferably to 60% which only has a 8 damage difference from the old 40% point. Yes, the ratio would technically be higher at 60% falloff, but I thought the point of Sivir was AoE damage?
: Hey Vsin, what slot is it in your inventory?
This bug is now slightly outdated, but I did mention it was Slot 4 in the OP... The real bug seems to be using the Shift + 4 /laugh macro. Just using the item in Slot 4 does nothing, I double checked that yesterday.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: The kages build path seems to fall a bit behind once the laning phase is over. Supports that build AP are not that safe that they can easily poke the enemy every now and then. But farming and last hitting goes on all the time. My suggestion woudl be to give the shard of true ice at least 5g/10 to make up for that or allow the active slow on the item to also trigger the gold (easier to get the full possible gold out of the item in a teamfight). The early balancing of the 3 items seems to be way off still. - Philo gives decent early stats, but they are not too useful late game. 12g per wave. - Kages has overall great stats for most ranged supports, but gives at least 6 and up to 30g per wave. General it is around 14-18g per wave. - Executioners seems to be the strongest one early on. 25g (20 for the support and 5g for the ADC that would normally take the CS). And, cause the ADC sometimes misses a CS, it can even be worth 45 gold when you play well together with your supporter. And it also gives around 1 HP reg every 5 sec to the ADC early game (scaling up). Philo could need a gold boost or stat boost. It is overall currently the weakest. Kages is ok early on, but falls off once laning phase is over. Executioners is the best early game and doesn't really fall off. The mechanics seem to work great and are not easily abused. Kages could be abused by champs that can clear waves fast. The g/10 runs all the time and the stats are pretty good for the costs. And you get a small window where you get extra gold for harassing. Only that it doesn't build into a really strong burst AP item holds it down for mid lane AP.
Shard of True Ice is a point-and-click AoE 50% slow. Sounds pretty darn good for roamers to me. Also, if Riot decides to leave the bug in the game, it can also build into the [Dominion version of] Twin Shadows.
: ok so my thoughts on the new patch after playing 4 or so games on pbe (gold 5 support on NA server) Items: i still have the urge to not build sight stone unless im playing a mele support, the free wards are not worth it in my opinion, the new items just make me want to skip wasting 1500 gold on an item that only gives you wards, its far much cheaper to just buy your gold item and buy 2-3 stealth wards with a pink. since you are getting gold now, or getting tanky with the new Executioner's Emblem there is very little insensitive to buy Sight stone, i honestly would rather purchase a G-Belt or a Useful aura item for my team. i do fear for the CV trinket, in my testing it was utterly useless and i felt like i would never pick that item up again, i would rather use a summoner to get clairvoyance. If the ward trinket wasnt bugged, it would always be my option it allows for 3-4 wards to let you get past the early game. True sight trinket was in a really good spot from my exp. if your adc grabs it, you can deny aggressive wards early and make the lane flow in your favor. only problem here is that sightstone wants to be good, but its not good, seems too piss-poor to build on most supports with the amount of gold you get. Brushes: these seem actually balanced for each side now, although i have not tried doing the ward into tri brush from dragon, or tri ward from baron pit i still feel like you dont need as many wards to gain vision control which is very nice. not much else to say honestly except i feel like its harder to put early wards down for your team to help out their early game. Vision didnt change too much here it was just balanced. Champions: i have only played thresh annie sona and nami bot so far, but my current exp on these champs is that the tanky supports get tanky and mage/utility supports can actually do damage or have Utility now if they build for it. with the new item builds available it allows you to not be afraid of warding or going for hurras because you will not instantly be killed like in s3. The nerfs to most of the heals was a great call, making it so you have to actually build for making your heals better and discourages sitting in lane all day and healing your marksman. i think for now champions are the same, not to much will change except for builds. I think the Season 4 changes will be very interesting and i cant wait to see the new builds(pls ap sona as support pls pls pls pls pls) and strats that will come with it.
I think in terms of Orb vs. Lens vs. Totem, I'd start the game with Lens, grab a stack of wards and then actively counter ward with Lens. I do agree that Orb seems to be pretty darn useless right now, mostly because the reveal duration only being 1 second long makes it really hard to actually make use of that information unless you already know your enemy is hidden in that part of the FoW and you need vision for a targeted spell. Totem seems like it's more for laners than the Support. I think it might be useful to start the game with Totem and then trade it for Lens later though.
Rioter Comments
: Yes it is. If you want a support that does damage, we already have those. They are currently named Annie, Nidalee, Lux, Zyra and any other utility mage (ori perhaps, lissandra as well etc.etc.) If supports building AP just makes them do more damage they are in the same business as solo lane mages except that they have less income and a few non-ap items they must buy. AP scaling up utility is what will separate the supports from mages. That being said I think the utility scaling IS kind of crap seeing as how I have to dedicate 1 slot to sightstone and 1 slot to pinks 1 slot to boots, and 1 slot to GP10 (one does give AP i suppose). Only 2 slots open to additional AP item if you are doing it right. I would like to see some damage scaling reduced farther to increase base numbers. Also increasing utility scaling a bit would be nice too. *disclaimer* this is all based off of only 1 game so far so I could just be talking out of my ass, but based on what i have seen so far this is how i feel about it.
Lets use another rewording then: presently, Supports with gold already do FAR LESS DAMAGE than Mages with gold. If you gave 500 AP to a Support and told them to carry, they'd go "Wait, how?" I'm not saying lots of damage, I'm saying RELEVANT damage. Even when I stacked 300 armor on Taric (because 2 armor ratios and a deleted AP ratio) my mid-late game damage output was virtually unnoticeable...hell, it felt nearly identical to live values. And that's with a Randuin on top of an Aegis on top of a Sunfire (see my match history). Same damage. As a guy with zero items. Check me on Live if you think I'm kidding - I'm still playing this guy in Plat and I can say with near-certainty that the damage values are barely any different. In case you didn't notice the implication, that means we're also doing less damage when we aren't swimming in items. Why would that happen, even with the increased gold flow? Falling behind. You get lots of gold when you can stand on a dying minion wave or racking up kills, but if you get zoned out of range or can't get the kills rolling, you still won't have gold income. So in losing situations, you are objectively worse...especially considering that several Utility bases (eg: Janna's Shield) got nerfed as well in response to the new ratios. In short, the changes now make Supports item dependent to deal the same damage output as they previously could with no items, when that damage output wasn't exactly good in the first place. So unless Riot plans on letting the utility scaling be absurdly good (...and that could create a totally different issue) I can still only see this as a straight nerf.
: Supports are currently balanced around being able to still be strong and do things in lane without any damage items at all. I imagine that Riot found in their playtesting that most of the supports were able to completely dominate the lanes when they actually had a decent gold income that they weren't forced to spend on utility and wards.
I dunno, as someone else said, "Blame Madlife" but I still don't buy that argument. I've been "metabreaking" in Normals on Live with Ruby Sightstone > Morello + Sorcs + Guise on the current budget, and I haven't exactly been overbearing in those games. Even on tests against BOTS (aka gold punching bags) I was hard pressed to round up even so much as 150 AP on the PBE, even while completely skipping a Ruby Sightstone (because bots). Supports already had their scaling nerfed to hell in response to people trying to take them into the solo lanes. Why do they need that scaling nerfed again in exchange for gold? Is it a mortal crime to want to deal a relevant amount of damage?
  Rioter Comments
: Twin Shadows Shop Bug
Request: can you actually leave that there? Having a second build path that still uses Kage's but destroys the gold generation is actually pretty interesting.
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