: That's what I'm thinking. It's very annoying though I think the rune would be good on her.
Personally I wish they wouldn't have made this rune at all. It's going to be impossible to get away from Kennen/Wukong/Yi especially with this stupid rune. It's not like it isn't already hard to stay away from their ultis. Not to mention my distaste for Riot not only nerfing Ultimate Hat(making it required to get kills to use it aside from using the ultimate which also makes it slower to stack) but also making me choose between Ravenous Hunter and it.
: Shyvana cant take Nimbus Cloak
Must be because Magical Hat was it's replacement, and she didn't have a cooldown on her ult.
: The new champion, Pyke
I actually feel like if he doesn't buy a waveclear item in solo lanes, he's useless, and as a support he's only useful for catching out opponents, not actually killing them until he has ult(and even then he's extremely easy to kill). I honestly feel like as a support he still feels totally dependant on his ADC. Which may be what they were going for but it still kinda sucks. He's kinda fun but I don't think I'll be WANTING to play him as a support. The whole two person dynamic still makes me feel terrible.
Rioter Comments
: Pyke Passive Convertion needs to be shown
It's around 7.5 AD per 100 health from my experiments. If you're just curious, but I agree that how much AD you're getting from buying health needs to be shown.
: > [{quoted}](name=Voracious,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=OAaZqaJJ,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-06T22:33:50.581+0000) > > void staff still negates what MR they have without items(not really a lot, rabadons would be a better choice if they refuse to build MR), > but pretty much void staff is an item you HAVE to build because at some point everyone builds magic resist if you're ahead. Indeed, one will need Void Staff if they’re building MR. The question at hand was what to buy if they aren’t. At some point most will start to buy an MR item if you’re a threat, but that simply means you buy Void Staff later. There’s so many other things that are more optimal in that situation. One can always buy Void Staff later once the enemy has started building MR. If truly necessary, you can sell or delay another item for it.
I mean Rabadons if they refuse to build MR at all, but again, you'll pretty much need void staff every game because at some point someone's gonna build MR. You could put it off though if they're still not building MR if you're fed and get Rabadons earlier. Of course you can also get morellonomicon if you feel like their base MR is keeping you from doing damage to them(it shouldn't though, even tanks are squishy without building MR, especially if you're fed).
: I think the problem with this lies with the fact that Riven is able to build "fun" items that increase her damage, 1v1, and playmaking potential, while in doing so, forces her opponents to build much less apparently powerful items that aren't nearly as enjoyable to use if you want a chance at winning. Sure, you can counter her build, but there's far too much BS in this game to make counterbuilding satisfying. For example. Buying executioners calling on an ADC isn't satisfying, it's just setting your actual build back 800g and an item slot.
They changed the passive apparently. It's now just 50 extra damage and is increased by attack speed. A much more balanceable passive. You can't really COUNTERBUILD against an item that just gives you more damage on your first auto attack, so I'm sure that's why they changed it. I'm sure a lot of champions were abusing this item, not just Riven.
: > [{quoted}](name=BOSS XXXL,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=OAaZqaJJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-05-06T15:19:55.941+0000) > > what i should build then ? More raw AP. Rabadon's, Morellonomicon, Spellbinder etc. Magic Pen isn't worth much if the opponent isn't building Magic Resist. You build Magic Pen *because* they're building MR.
void staff still negates what MR they have without items(not really a lot, rabadons would be a better choice if they refuse to build MR), but pretty much void staff is an item you HAVE to build because at some point everyone builds magic resist if you're ahead.
: If you can't play as a team then this game isn't for you. There's other solutions than item based. Also, items aren't character based. If you couldn't realize I was just throwing out few of the several other options then you don't know how to play the game very well or have much knowledge. Therefore I see why you're having trouble going against Riven, when the changes are live just ban Riven if you really have to. c=
I wasn't facing the Riven in lane, and I know how to play vs Riven. I even PLAY Riven occasionally(I used to one trick her). These crits with stormrazor are going to be too strong on her. Honestly they're strong on anyone, but they're going to be extra strong on champions with assassin level damage, which Riot said they weren't planning on making Fighters or assassins abuse these new ADC items, and with this item she could still build bruiser(have high HP and armor shred/healing) while also doing an extra 600 damage. She'd obviously have to sacrifice one item to do so, but Riven doesn't need even one specific item to build, as she has at least two different playstyles right now(bruiser and assassin) and in both she still has enough slots to build it without sacrificing much. For ADCs, this item seems like only one that might get them ahead early. For other champions, it gives them a free crit(multiple really if they can back out of fights and go back in like Riven can) when they couldn't otherwise crit. This is the whole point of the feedback boards.
: I like the idea about resetting the keystone on kills ( maybe assists too?). Hail of blades feels like its built more for on hit champions that want to get to their on hit activation as fast as possible rather than champions that want to trigger that passive constantly. On Morde it feels great to get to my 2x damage multiplier on Mace of spades faster. A champion like Darius would probably be able to appreciate getting to noxian might much faster as well. Neither of those champion really care about their on hit passive after that since : 1. Firing off the on hit activation usually enables their win condition making it easier to execute someone 2. Their on hit effects have down time ( morde's cooldowns) or they have other ways of maintaining the passive (guillotine procs / hemorrhage refresh) It offers faster burst for champions like Vayne and Ekko too, but they probably wouldn't see as much value since they want to constantly procc their on hit passives.
Ekko actually can't proc his passive more than once in a certain window of time. But he has more reliable ways to proc it due to his Q and E, so he would do much better with Electrocute. Vayne could use it, but it's a passive you'd want to consistently proc, like you said. A rioter claimed it's strongest users should be 3 hit passive champs and some champions like Darius, but 3 hit passive champs don't want to just proc it once and get out of dodge. They want to proc it consistently. Kai'Sa COULD use one passive proc, because that one passive proc does insane damage, but after she used it on one person, she'd be pretty screwed if more came up without having a rune, unlike if she had fleet footwork where she could kite all day. There aren't many champions I could see this being used on honestly, and the ones that could use it, I feel could use other keystones better most likely.
: Was sarcasm, I don't see a problem when they're several solutions.
I saw a Riven 1v5 JUST with her crit autos + passive. You can't build a randuins on every champion, morellonomicon for her healing while it would be an okay option as a mid laner, would not specifically deal with her high damage crits with stormrazor. Death's Dance is just making Stormrazor stronger for her because of that one crit. None of these solutions are really applicable for Riven with this item except ninja tabi, and that's always an item you'd want to build to itemize against her in general. I've played Riven rushing this item. It's pretty stupid. As far as I'm aware this item wasn't intended for someone like her either. The item itself is too strong, but Riven as far as I'm aware was not intended to use this item, but still works into any of the items she builds naturally while making her deal a lot more damage than she should.
: Idk i think it's needed tho. You can manipulate the lane too much with it killin a whole creep. Especially if it's the third wave and you use it on a cannon creep.
You're using a rune spot for that one creep though.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Means the skin didn't and doesn't need testing, maybe riot did all the testing and polishing on their own and kept the skin as a surprise
Pretty sure Skin Spotlights made a video with it.
: Well I'm speaking from personal experience they need it. They feel too weak without it. With high mana costs, without regen, or base mana buffs you throw 2-3 Q's and any of them, and you're out of mana. You used to rely on the 4 mana per kill to regen mana. that's 24-28 mana a wave. Granted you probably wont get all of it but if u can that's decent mana regen. Being forced onto an item like corrupting pot because u need regen is just anti fun and pigeon holes you into a starting item. Riot already hates forcing champions to take certain keystones why should starting items be any different.
Most mid lane mages run doran's ring or dark seal(Or corrupting pot, but most are determined by which mage they are, rather than only if they're mid lane mages). Most ADCs run doran's blade only(although they could potentially run corrupting pot, it wouldn't be as powerful most likely), so why should we give tanks with already high base damage on their abilities 3 options as opposed to everyone else? As I said, they have high base damage, they don't need the damage from doran's ring to be successful. Corrupting pot is EXACTLY for regen. So if you need regen, that's why you should take it.
: Jungle was just made less fun than it was before, not to mention more stressful, harder, and weaker
: Thoughts on new Doran's ring effect and certain champions in top lane that used it.
I don't think these champions need Doran's Ring to have a presence in the early game. They all have very high base damage on their abilities to the point where they could do without doran's ring just fine imo if going full AP like you're talking about. I don't think there should be a reason for them to have extra mana in the early game for the fact that they have high base damage on their abilities. Also considering these champions(aside from Galio), all build tank for the most part, I don't imagine them being played less, because most people don't build them AP. Malphite also recently got more AP scaling on his abilities iirc.
: Reworked Infinity Edge is Overpowered/Broken on Tryn & Yas
One thing...Yasuo already had 100% crit chance with an IE and Phantom Dancer before(60% from PD and 40% from IE). Also IE now no longer has +50% crit DAMAGE, meaning he's lost an extra 50% damage for that 20% of his current damage being true damage. It may be strong but I wouldn't say completely overpowered. Although I share the sentiments with Xelpi about Conqueror possibly being abused with this item together on Yasuo and Trynd vs tanks, which wouldn't be an IE problem but more of a Yasuo/Trynd problem.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Hail of Blades
I tried it with Kai'Sa(in theory and practice tool she can W>E>auto 2 times and proc her passive, which is good, sort of..leading into that). I feel like the rune doesn't really have much of a place personally. If you're using a three hit passive, or some passive similar, you'll wanna get those 3 hits, and then back out with Hail of Blades because you no longer have a keystone. With ADCs especially, fleet footwork offers so much more kiting to ADCs that they practically need it at this point compared to 50-100% attack speed for their first 3 attacks. These champions with these types of passives generally want to keep getting their passive off over and over rather than one time and then backing out, because the enemy will have sustained back up usually during that time(via fleet footwork in the case of Kai'Sa/Vayne). Lethal Tempo seems much more suitable for their types of playstyles if they were to NOT pick up Fleet Footwork. As for Darius, maybe that would be good for him, I don't play him(I don't really play ADCs either but I know enough about Vayne and I've tested it on Kai'Sa to understand that this rune won't be as good for them as you'd expect, especially considering Vayne's passive is one you especially want to keep pumping out. Kai'Sa CAN be good with this, but the kiting lost from Fleet Footwork makes it too hard to back out from a fight after you go in, and considering you can only use this one time in a fight, it's not worth taking over the other). The champions in theory who would want to use it likely wouldn't because they could only get one fast passive proc off and then they'd no longer have a keystone, whereas with lethal tempo or fleet footwork they could stay in fights much longer while also being able to back out. The rune doesn't offer a way to get back out after proccing the 3 hits, so you're kind of stuck committing. I feel like, at the VERY LEAST, it needs to reset automatically if you kill someone, so that you can use it on the next person and sort of snowball it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Voracious,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=i7dOAcvy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-04T08:51:46.130+0000) > > I'd rather the mana be removed completely and added more to the mana regen in the ludens proc honestly. That way non-mana reliant AP champions would also be able to use the item assuming it got something else in it's place. Hah, yeah. I suppose Rumble JG isn't too fond of 300 mana.
Katarina jungle might be pretty fun if I could actually farm well enough in the jungle early on to get going and I wasn't wasting stats on mana on the jungle item. xP
: I don't know if it has to necessarily should be the best on 3 hit champs, but I feel like this is more for ranged. Since conquerer is a fantastic runes for bruisers, but it's true potential comes from being melee. But, I understand what you mean. It's hard to see most of the ranged champs who'd benefit off this since most of their kits if they need the AS are already built in, such as varus, gnar. I just feel with gnar as well that it's not the best rune since he has his mega gnar form, which focuses more on pure AD than AS. But, I see what you mean, just feels like an out of place right now, and not many champions would benefit from it greater than pre-existing runes.
I totally agree. The problem is all the ranged champions who would want this want Fleet Footwork more. Even if Fleet Footwork only worked when hitting enemy champions, they'd still likely take it over this, because the kiting is that much more useful than quick auto attacks, and anyone who wants to constantly auto attack will take Lethal Tempo. It's very out of place. If it reset on kills, maybe it could be somewhat more useful, but still probably not enough to warrant taking Fleet Footwork over it. Riven maybe could use it to get off quicker combos, but again, other runes are just so much better despite that that you'd be shooting yourself in the foot if you took it. Kalista might get good use out of it, considering she wouldn't wanna wait for Lethal Tempo and could get some use out of the Domination Tree(namely sudden impact), but if she wanted to go domination, electrocute is such a strong rune she could probably get more use out of that.
: I particularly found this Rune bad, as it stands now looks like a faint copy of Lethal Time. There is one more thing missing that makes this rune unique and that it will also make it a rewarding one.
It's not really like Lethal Tempo at all. It's more like that old item that was in that game mode with the Gangplank event. It gives you 3 quick attacks and then it's over. The problem is that most champions that would use this have runes that are more important to them imo.
: Increasing item prices cripples support. (Tear of Goddess)
I've always seen Zilean as more of a mid laner personally, however MOST spellcaster support cast has 200 mana regen JUST from redemption/censer. They never run out of mana. The only ones who don't get as much mana regen are the ones that actually buy mid laner items(Brand/Zyra/etc). Supports also gained 800 G effectively by not having to buy sightstone anymore previously, and their support item isn't required to be completed(only have to get tier 2) which saves them another 650 gold. I think they're alright personally considering they don't have to pay 1450 gold to do what they did before.
: New Runic Echoes - Missing the MS
I'd rather the mana be removed completely and added more to the mana regen in the ludens proc honestly. That way non-mana reliant AP champions would also be able to use the item assuming it got something else in it's place.
Rioter Comments
: Lobby and Champion Select Music Overlapping
Posted this before months ago, it's still happening =/
: There's lots of AP top laners too. Since the majority of irelia's abilities scale in AP, I think it's more effective to build her as hybrid or even full AP for now. She's incredibly mobile and could be useful in the midlane as an AP assassin like {{champion:245}} or {{champion:131}}. Building her as a typical bruiser is basically ignoring the amazing damage and utility from her E, W, and R.
I honestly think AP assassin Irelia is a nice off-meta style, but the fact that when she builds bruiser she's so hard to deal with, is what will make building the old way of Irelia more appealing and more powerful overall(AP assassin is good, yeah, but bruiser Irelia kills really well while also being hard to kill).
Rioter Comments
: Can Swain E get the same thing as Irelia's E? Vision on the target
I actually tested it and it's not the E that grants vision. It's the mark in general. Any champion marked also gets revealed. (I assume that's how it works, as I ulted and E'd a dummy in a bush). If the mark doesn't exist they're not revealed. The sight also lasts less than the actual stun I believe. It only lasts like a half a second.
: Might be because of her passive or that it's probably coded like Manaflow band that if you take it on a manaless champion it will automatically change to Nullifying Orb.
Yeah, but it has more than just mana on it. If it's intended because manaless champions don't have mana then it shouldn't be excluded because it also has something champions without mana might want. If it is intended because Katarina gets resets, then sure, I'll accept that, but it does it to Zed too, so I'm assuming it's only because of the mana part, in which case I think it should be changed. It might be because old Presence of Mind was just about mana, so it might just be something that they forgot to change when they changed the rune.
: Irelia's E is a blade, similar to Jarvan's standard, which is also his E. Swain's root, is an ability and not a physical object being thrown on the map. I'm not going to say there aren't any abilities that give vision, but most do not. For example, Ashes W does not give vision even if she hits an enemy, neither does Ahri's charm, Bard's Q (even if he stuns), or a ton of other abilities in which a physical object is not present on the map. To compare, things like: * Maokai's sapplings * Teemo's mushrooms * Jarvan's Standard * Heimerdinger's turrets * Shaco's boxes All grant vision because they are physical objects on the map. Unless Riot sees a reason a specific ability should grant vision (you might make a case about Swain's E) then it won't. There is really no comparison between Swain's ability and Irelia's blade from her E however. It's a bit strange that you have to land the ability to gain vision (as Irelia) but maybe they thought it would be too strong otherwise.
I kind of agree with OP here. Irelia's E is an ability, not a physical object. I'd compare it much more to something like Zoe's Q and I don't think it gives vision. I mean technically Irelia's blades are physical objects, but her E acts much more like an ability.
Rioter Comments
: Vayne's Q does lock her out of autoattacking. Much like Kai'Sa'e E is an autoattack steroid that locks her out of autoing. There is a window in which you cannot auto, and then your dps (ideally) spikes.
When you auto>Q>auto it's nearly instant. Kaisa's lasts a lot longer as well.
: It doesn't ever become khazix ult. If you had to compare it to an existing ability it would be vayne's Q during ult. Unlike kha she A: doesn't get bonus damage for using it (Passive) and B: Can't immediately break it because C: She's locked out of all offensive actions during it including spellcasts (Which isn't listed on the tooltip but a huge deal, much like Xayah's damage falloff on E) Vayne's Q at least locks her out of autoattacking just like Kai'Sa but unlike Kai'Sa the invisibility lasts longer than the auto-attack lockout. That's a huge difference.
Vayne's Q doesn't lock her out of auto attacking, it's an enhanced auto attack. It's more like a dash that then enhances your auto after. Sure you're locked out during the dash from auto attacking, but that's why you auto>Q>auto. > [{quoted}](name=Shatter The Sun,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=r0or1ieR,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-26T06:17:39.299+0000) > > Its too early to judge. But even then she has an AS steroid that can become a kha ult with enough AS. W does good damage and applies stacks. Q when against a single person does great damage. R shield is dumb. She also scales with both AP and AD which means she is always going to get damage from whatever she buys. Her numbers are not bad and if she had any range longer than 500 then i would be scared. I know she has a lot of damage, and can build pretty much anything. Just saying a good Kai'Sa should NEVER beat a good Vayne imo because Vayne has better range, a faster passive proc, the ability to knock Kai'Sa out of range when she ults her, and more invisible mobility. The 500 vs 550 attack range pretty much just solidifies it and makes it a horrible experience(not even being able to farm in a solo lane hardly except under tower because the only ability that outranges Vayne's auto attack range is her W, which is on a super long cooldown). So Vayne paired with a support that counter's Kai'Sa's support should pretty much be a free win. I can't think of a way to make this seem fair because if she has too much range, then yeah, she'll be oppressive, but if she has 50 less range than Vayne, Vayne will always win. I suppose you could just ban Vayne every game, but then that locks you out of other bans. You could pick supports that can kill her more easily, but then you're just going to feel useless until you've solidified a huge advantage vs the Vayne and then that imo would feel like you didn't do anything to deserve that lead.
: Thoughts on new rune?
In my experience it's really horrible to play against, whether you're a tank or not. I just had a game where a Garen went 0/10 REALLY early against a Darius who just went out of control. I can't see the damage from it in my death recap though but he was unable to be stopped. I don't know if the Garen was just bad or what. Certain champions seem extremely powerful with it though, and they're not all bruisers(Master Yi for example, and I would assume Darius, who is a bruiser, but already has true damage, but I can't say for certain as I haven't faced him).
: Kai'sa should have telltale signs that she has evolved abilities
While I wouldn't mind this, I don't think it's necessary(except maybe the E since it has stealth, but it's mostly used to catch up to someone since it has a charge time where you can't attack, a decent cooldown, and could only be used once if it was used in a fight anyways). Her W is only an extra passive stack if you're hit by it and naturally you want to avoid being hit by it anyways, her Q fires more missiles, but it's mainly for farming and from my experience doesn't do much if you hit one person with it and usually that's not even possible as there's usually not a 1v1 without minions involved. Visually it'd be nice, but I don't think it changes anything from a gameplay perspective.
: It does feel kind of odd. Her abilities make it feel like you should be looking downrange for targets, but you actually have to be pretty close for your short autos (which aren't automatic atm, but that's aside from the point). With her cooldowns being so long and her AA so short she's very easy to harass off the minion wave and completely deny her cs.
It all feels awkward. Even her passive. You want to stack it up but it takes a decent amount of time to even stack it up. Even if you have full stacked Guinsoo's sometimes it's 3 hits sometimes it's 4 because of it being that weird number of stacks required to hit with it. Her auto attack range is terrible for her having a lot of cast time on her actual damaging abilities(her Q seems to be only for farming honestly). You have to be in most ADC's faces whereas most ADCs can just attack you from outside of your range. Your ultimate range feels kinda small(Other champions have transporting ultimates that let them cover much larger distances and her W has a longer range than her ultimate). It just feels really awkward playing her and I honestly think she CAN be good(assuming she can get rolling) but a lot of things feel like they work against her(most ADCs I would assume if they know what they're doing they can never be hit by an auto attack from her, unless she gets her ultimate off, and considering most of her kit is based on her passive, which requires auto attacks aside from her W, it feels like she'll probably struggle, and can NEVER be first picked, unless you have a support who can do all of your damage for you in which case why bother picking her at all, because Vayne will destroy her).
: You seen her passive dmg? You want that any farther away?
You do realize she has the SHORTEST auto attack range for an ADC in the game right? Vayne's passive damage is really big too, but she has it on 3 attacks instead of 5. Kai'Sa would have to attack Vayne 10 times to get 2 passive procs. Vayne could get 3 procs in that time and be 1/3 of the way to another(actually 2/3 most likely because she attacks first due to having 50 longer range. The thing about Kai'Sa vs Vayne is she literally can skirt around that 50 range with no way of Kai'Sa hitting her with anything except W, which has a long ass CD. Literally every ADC outranges her except for Lucian, who has the same range, and he relies mostly on his abilities.
: [ABILITIES] Sometimes does not cast even with consistent ping
I have had this issue a few times when playing Katarina. My W wouldn't go off when I knew I hit it, or my Q.
Rioter Comments
: So you would prefer that either your team or the enemy team have a DC for the whole game?
> [{quoted}](name=JakeFromStateCS,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=YgEiFXc8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-23T18:26:59.814+0000) > > So you would prefer that either your team or the enemy team have a DC for the whole game? > [{quoted}](name=tabookodak5,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=YgEiFXc8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-23T18:18:34.464+0000) > > lulno, people are just gonna dc after and then theres the process of remaking At least then they can be reported.
Rioter Comments
: Kleptomancy is a great rune, but it crowds your inventory and has too much RNG
They could do some sort of Adaptive thing, where if you have mostly AD you always get wrath, more armor/mr iron, etc. At least when you only get those types of elixirs. Pots should be random. The weird thing is getting the minion dematerializer thing when you're a jungler. You'll basically wanna use it on a cannon, but if you go to someone's lane and steal their canny they're probly gonna be mad, lol.

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