: No need. I just tested another jungle clear with the changes. A no leash clear now feels pretty fast and you end up at half health after Blue > Gromp > Wolves > Red >Raptors/Krugs. With a leash you'll end up at near full health (using two pots). This is the best her jungle clear has ever been. 400 is a **LOT **of damage early on for someone with AoE as well (unlike Nunu). And by the time it stops being incredibly strong in the jungle, you no longer need it anyway (you have items). The knockback + slow on W also allows you to kite the monsters a bit in order to mitigate damage. She's in a **really** good spot after these changes. I think she might even be _too_ good now. We'll have to wait and see.
Ah, just tested it myself. Seems like the E proc actually does 450 dmg to blue golem, gromp and ancient krug since they have -15 magic resist. It does less dmg to big raptor and redbuff though which I guess is fine. Also the knockback also helps and the fact that her passive doesn't get consumed by smaller jungle minions.
: Did some iterations over the weekend to cut down on the number of forced mechanics that point to jungle. (Even though we want her to jungle, it probably can be done a bit more elegantly than having multiple jungle only interactions) **Compared to the old '4/23' changelist** Passve Icebreaker now always deals 400 damage vs monsters instead of max 400 W W1 knocks minions and monsters back W no longer deals bonus damage to monsters E No longer has reduced cd vs monsters Limits the number of jungle specific interactions to 1 (Icebreaker damage, which was already there anyway). I'm pretty confident these changes make her jungle significantly safer, would love feedback from less skilled jungles if such people exist here :p **Full 4/23 Changelist** Passive Frost Armor no longer broken by minions or small monsters Icebreker Damage: 15/20/25% -> 10/15/20% Icebreaker Damage vs monsters: max 400 -> always 400 W No longer self slows, not worth W1 now knocks back minions and monsters CD: 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 -> 9/8/7/6/5 1st hit Damage: 12/19/26/33/40 (+0.01HP) -> 30/35/40/45/50 (+0.02HP) 2nd hit Damage: 48/76/104/132/160 (+0.04HP) -> 40/80/120/160/200 (+0.05HP) Bonus damage to monsters: 20% -> 0%
Have you considered scaling the permafrost cooldown on targets based on rank? rank 1 -> 10 seconds, rank 5 -> 6 seconds? Also does it get affected by cdr? Also I think the monster dmg on E should be a bit higher (400 -> 450-500). It's already restricted by a stacking mechanic and 8 second cooldown while someone like Nunu just comes around and presses a button and deals 400-1140 true dmg instantly to a monster.
: Zac/Maokai Feedback Threads
: Hiya, ya'll! We've been gathering feedback from you all, and so far we've put in some VFX changes to her W and R. They should be hitting PBE with the next deploy, so we'll be looking for more feedback from you when that hits. :] We're also currently looking into changes for the non-VFX stuff you've posted here as well.
New SFX for the ult? It kinda sounds more like someone hitting a rock with a pickaxe than a black hole activating.
: Maowhy can't my ult catch someone who's right in front of me??? Maokai ult thoughts.
I tested him and seems like he's more of a warden now than before. Might actually be worth to play him as a tank support. Whenever you see a gank coming, just ult and disengage. His passive also has very much power in it. Late game you can easily heal for 600+ health with the passive. I kinda wish his Q would be similar to Gnar ult (without the stun to wall of course). Currently it knocks everything away from Maokai instead of the way he casts it. This would further increase his effectiveness in the support role. I kinda like W speed being slow. It gives some counter play to him. But I'd prefer a version where it starts slow and accelerates over time to remove those ridiculous pulls to nexus fountain. What comes to his saplings, I like the vision they give and that's about all. The damage is low unless there's multiple saplings. It also feels rather redundant ability in team fights due to the slow set up and low dmg. Only worth using to reduce passive cd. I'd personally like to have a stacking mechanic (3 saplings) + increased dmg on explosion but multiple explosions wouldn't stack.
: Post it [here](https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/exRiwY0k-dark-star-singularity-coming-soon-to-pbe) instead. Every new champion, skin and other big content has their own bug and/or feedback thread in one of the subboards. It is recommended to place bugs and feedback there.
I posted a comment earlier on there (it's more of an expectation for the mode rather than a review). Also that's just an announcement thread, not a feedback thread. Feedback thread usually has the word "feedback" on the title.
Rioter Comments
: Dark Star: Singularity - coming soon to PBE!
I like the creativity of new game modes like these... BUT (there's always a but) I do not like how the champion pool is restricted in significant ways. To us people who do not really enjoy playing Thresh, it might be a nice thing to play a game or two and then it gets boring (or might not, we will see). If these kinds of game modes continue to emerge, I hope it is accompanied by another gamemode for the weekend that includes all the champions (ascension, poro king, etc..). If this game mode lasts for two weekends, it's gonna be a bummer if there's nothing else "on the menu" besides normals/aram.
: Sejuani Rework - First Impressions
W could be just a double cast ability: 1st cast - aoe cone 2nd cast - longer ranged skillshot This gives time to auto attack between the casts.
: Lulu's recall will look better if it will end with her joke animation :3 And cut the animation when she flies up in the joke (after rotating around the stick with her hat)
Rioter Comments
: Hunt of the Blood Moon game mode available shortly on PBE
Pantheon is an assassin? Also where is Vayne?
: I like this idea but what could ti be? more healing from Honeyfuit, longer range/duration on Scrying and longer blast distance on Blast Cone?
Increased plant effect is a valid option in my opinion. Could be somehow windowed in a way that makes the plant effects more noticable/powerful. "Stand next to a plant for 3 seconds to enhance its effect". Cooldown of 2-3 minutes. Blastcone: increased blast distance + a slight movement speed buff after landing Scrying: wider scrying area Honeyfruit: you eat the whole honeyfruit cluster (which includes 2 more honeyfruits than normally) and you won't get slowed
Rioter Comments
: We tried several different versions of W, actually -- what we found consistently was that Zyra players very much missed being able to control their seed placements. It's one of the most unique things about current Zyra; removing it also tilts the balance between actively controlled seeds and passively spawned ones.
I had a thought/idea for W. Basically Zyra would fertilize an already existing seed or fertilize the ground so next time the passive spawns seeds a seed will spawn at the fertilized spot. Fertilizing an already existing seed increases its size and when activated to grow into a plant, the plant would be bigger and more efficient. Maybe even allow a seed to be fertilized couple of times to create a huge seed that grows into a big plant monster. Fertilizing seeds could bring its own benefits that could be scaled with W ranks. Ranking up the PBE W is kinda... underwhelming. (Also is there any chance of us getting a new fancy Zyra splash art?)
: > [{quoted}](name=LostFr0st,realm=PBE,application-id=A4D2003433C8FCD715185A7264A9CC6FDFAD7FEF,discussion-id=Nc76bmxt,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-02-16T18:16:01.611+0000) > > Could you please get someone to look into a gamebreaking Tahm Kench bug? The cycle is winding down soon and it's important that it doesn't go live. > Thank you for all your hard work <3 > > http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bugs/tFQyzoaU-tahm-kench-bughttpboardspbeleagueoflegendscomensubmit? Hey thanks for poking on this! We're looking into it, just haven't responded enough on the boards, sorry!
So how about that Caitlyn trap/net range interaction with Rapid Firecannon? Are the range increases supposed to stack with each other or not? Caitlyn aa range: 650 Enhanced headshot range - 1300 RFC bonus range: 150 However the bonus range from RFC is not added to the enhanced headshot range. Or at least it seems like it's not. Intentional?
: Poppy Passive...just feels...off
It's a ranged attack that procs on hit effects from items such as {{item:3742}} . It allows her to slow a target from a distance.
: Poppy on the Pbe right now, in regards to her passive.
So if you kill a minion with the passive the shield comes back to you and refreshes the cooldown on the passive instead of giving a shield. If hit on an enemy champion it gives a shield after you pick it up. I dunno. It would make her a champion who can farm from a safe distance. If she's behind she could just stop playing as a melee character and focus on last hitting with her passive until she's not behind anymore. While being a cool idea, I don't think making Poppy a pseudo ranged champion is the right thing.
: Poppy's hair
I'm fine with the new color.
: The same goes for any loss of vision. If you attack a champion and he gets in stealth you will follow him until you get a chance to hit him. Tested it and it works every time on live.
How about if an enemy walks in a brush? I can't recall if the attacker follows them or not :P
: Quinn's new blind can be kinda awkward (for the enemy)
Yeah, the fog of war should appear immediately after being "blinded". Also see how Sivir runs automatically towards Quinn when blinded. The auto attack command does not stop even if you lose vision of her. I hope this is not intended.
: Patch 5.22's Healing Party, and the severe importance of Grievous wounds
Windspeaker's blessing does not affect self heals. You don't get 18% more effective heals on yourself with Runic Armor mastery. Tbh Soraka is the biggest problem is this all. No other support healer benefits as much from these changes as her. If you ask me Riot should make some changes to Soraka now that grevious wounds isn't applied to her heals.
: Summoner Spells Cooldown Bug with Ionian Boots of Lucidity
What if you buy the distort enhancement on top of that? The cooldown should be lowered to 180 seconds. But I doubt it is...
: Caitlyn Gameplay Update Feedback Megathread
Hi! Just tested out the new Caitlyn. She's really fun. Couple of suggestions though: 1. Rapid Fire Cannon does not seem to work on enhanced headshots. Caitlyn's passive says it doubles the range of her next attack against a target that is trapped or slowed by her net. This is not true since an auto attack enhanced by Rapid Fire Cannon does not seem to have double the range from RFC. **I suggest that the extra +150 range from RFC also got doubled when used with enhanced headshot.** 2. her auto attack range is really high. Too high if you ask me. For the amount of damage she can dish out with her new headshots, her early game harrass is too efficient. **I suggest that her auto attack range got reduced from 650 to 600**. This also partly compensate nerfs the RFC buff I suggested. 3. Remove the "boom headshot" quote when she procs headshot against minions. Make her say it when she damaged a target champion for over 30% of their max health or when the target dies. 4. Give her a VU
: "I think a more healthier way to reduce it would be to reduce the cd by 1 second every time you manage to land an auto attack or a spell against an enemy champion." Only problem i see with this would probably be {{champion:96}} .
Agreed. Maybe make the max reduction 15 seconds or so.
: Thunderlord's Decree
I think a more healthier way to reduce it would be to reduce the cd by 1 second every time you manage to land an auto attack or a spell against an enemy champion. Binding cdr to the mastery would just basically force players who choose this mastery to build cdr to get the most out of it. Binding the cd to combat success would on the otherhand encourage players to play more aggressively and take risks for a reward.
: but in order to do that you have to get through early-mid game where you usually have one-two items to rely on.. :\ it's not about bad situations, it's about the inability to kill the enemy adc in lane. ever. unless somebody does the damage, or he sits there besides his support and waits for you. or just sits there by himself considerably longer and laughs as you chip away at his milimeters. it doesn't feel like an ADC.
In early-mid game you should never go ham on the enemy full hp adc unless you have extremely good synergy with your support. The strategy is to get few pokes in and then when they are low enough you can engage. Love Tap enhances that kind of play style a lot and synergizes well with her Q which is also a poking ability.
: I think grievous wounds only works on self healing now. Outside sources like Soraka are not mitigated anymore.
You are correct. I heard of this after I posted. Soraka became even more effective...
: The Windspeakers Blessing mastery(CUNNING masteries)
Grevious wounds is now more easily accessible as well. I think the problem is more so in Soraka than the mastery.
: > [{quoted}](name=Vonler,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=6iHdauEu,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-05T23:26:04.155+0000) > > c'mon... you really expect me to waste my time reading this and writing a long a** answer? > > I know you ain't gonna change your opinion whatever I say so it's pointless continuing this any further. I have my opinion and you have yours and that's it. Bye. Couldn't help but read this as "I have no arguments, but I don't wanna admit it"
I have already put the important cards on the table and you haven't picked them up. No point continuing arguing about the same things over and over again when you obviously already have an opinion and refuse to look the situation from another perspective. I am not gonna waste time reading your long posts since it doesn't go anywhere. I COULD continue this, but I won't since there is nothing I get from it and neither do you. Don't expect me to go over all the different situations where MF could lose and where she can succeed after the changes -.-
: > [{quoted}](name=Vonler,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=6iHdauEu,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-05T14:54:55.784+0000) > > I "ignored" most of it because you wrote so long and I didn't want to reply with a long reply. Nice excuse/sarcasm > > In an earlier post I said that her being an aoe marksman (someone who's role is to deal damage to as many enemies as possible), Love Tap fits her kit very well. No it doesn't. As i Explained several times before, it doesn't fit her kit because it doesn't promote hitting multiple targets, it discourages hitting the same target. You aren't su much hitting many targets with LoveTap as you are simply juggling your focus back and forth between 2 targets, which in most cases will simply be the difference between a 1 for 1, or even 1 for 2 versus the love tap scenario where you simply die before anyone of your 2 targets do. You poke them down with occasional Love Taps and then you just wither them down until they are low enough to kill with an all in strategy or ult. What realistic situation exists where you can reliably poke with your Q in a teamfight that doesn't involve the enemy being dumb and ignoring you? > > I personally wouldn't want her Q to get nerfed just to make give her more base AD. It's already semi-hard to land perfectly and the reward should feel good. ...I can't believe I am reading this. MF's Q is incredibly easy to land with even just mild practice and patience. Besides, this is compensating for the fact that her Q would be able to prioritize previously marked LoveTap targets now, making your concern a complete non issue. The Bonus Damage on second bounce as well as the increase on killbounce is more than needed for lane harassing. > You are correct that E is not hard cc, but its cast range was increased by 200 which allows her to slow down enemies that are very far from her giving her that extra time to escape with the buffed strut (now scaling up to 100 movement speed with w ranks). The cast time is hardly noticable. That doesn't magically increase the radius of the spell. Any champ can simply dash or walk around it. If they are so far away that your E cast + W will let you get away, they weren't within the realms of distance required to even get to you in the first place, let alone the distance you need to even be useful or effective in an actual teamfight. And The cast time is crippling in many situations. > Love Tap enhances her weakness a bit but it greatly strengthens her in her new play style. I'd even say she's a bit too strong with her new passive. Riot has already stated they are going to watch her post-release and change the numbers if necessary. Understatement of the year. LoveTap doesn't enhance her weaknesses. It creates more. Heck, it makes her kit straight up unbalanced. The amount of power budget that is put into LoveTap versus how actually effective it is very stark.
c'mon... you really expect me to waste my time reading this and writing a long a** answer? I know you ain't gonna change your opinion whatever I say so it's pointless continuing this any further. I have my opinion and you have yours and that's it. Bye.
: love tap only compensates when it's being used. but as an ADC in many cases [keyword, MANY!] you have to focus one target, lest you end up getting two enemies to half hp running away instead of one dead high priority target. if she was anything else than a CARRY who is supposed to focus and take down priority targets, the impact would be less. but it is her base position, that comes before identity, which requires her to act contrary to her identity. now, you can only do one and you forced to do it- play within your identity. whereas in real gameplay, you HAVE to forego that for well, doing your role as a marksman.
Marksmen carry the games usually because of their items, not their base AD. It's only a minor factor anyways since MF has one of the strongest attack speed steroid in the game basically making her still do very good against squishy and semi-squishy targets. She has harder times killing someone like a tanky Udyr (who's running away) if he happens to be the only target around. It might take her extra 3-5 seconds to kill him if she's doing nothing but shooting. Not too bad considering how efficient she's gonna be against multiple enemies. Instead of getting into bad situations you would have previously survived due to the higher base AD, you should try to avoid them and adjust your play style accordingly.
: Do you feel like Special Delivery's current strength is unreasonable? If so, in what way?
I'll give my opinion even if you didn't ask this from me directly. The package feels powerful, it is powerful and it also alerts the enemy team of the upcoming armageddon that it brings. Power level in itself is alright but when Corki himself is ahead, it's just devastating for him to be able to position himself in a manner that allows him to kill the enemy team with such efficiency. I feel like the global alarm isn't enough of a warning. I think that it might not be such a bad idea to make the improved W have a slight delay and a warning indicator for the enemies considering it comes with such speed and while the range is what it is. You know, similarly to Jinx's W and how it has that indicator + delay. Overall I like the direction you took him.
: > [{quoted}](name=Vonler,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=6iHdauEu,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-11-05T10:52:48.951+0000) > > Didn't notice you replied to me... > > I didn't attack towards you. The point was that it's normal for players who 'main' a character to defend their old play style. And that is what I see you doing (even if you don't practically main her). Very understandable. > > However I don't see Love Tap as a change that was made just for the sake of change. It actually plays very well with her kit. It gives her enough dps, when used properly, to wipe out the enemies in conjunction with her other abilities when you get them low enough. > > The bouncing Q idea on Love Tap seems interesting but Riot would obviously also have to reduce her base AD since it's extra damage. Riot can't just straight up buff her damage output without taking it off somewhere else. > > Only negative thing that comes to my mind from Love Tap is that people can have hard times using it with high ping/lag. Dueling potential went down but I'm fine with it since she has tools to prevent those situations (strut + E). > > It's hard to say how many of them are defending her just for the sake of not wanting change and how many actually think the design is flawed (they all say it's flawed but the reasoning on some of them is just not convincing). U basically ignored what I said and replied with a "no, you you just don't like change". I would prefer if you didn't use such a shallow cop-out. You also didn't provide any explanation as to why it synergizes with her kit beyond simply saying "it does". Also, they wouldn't have to reduce her AD with My idea, as Q would realistically be adjusted accordingly, and she is getting a huge amount of power budget by dropping LoveTap. "_Only negative thing that comes to my mind from Love Tap is that people can have hard times using it with high ping/lag. Dueling potential went down but I'm fine with it since she has tools to prevent those situations (strut + E)._" Only way this can even remotely be considered a reliable way to prevent the situation from according is if your opponent is stupid. E isn't hard CC, much less reliable CC as it can easily be walked out off, around, or dodged, while also making her stand still to cast. The time it takes to then Find a situation that is ideal to cast W for the reset on Strut is then extended as you have to get reliable far for it to be effective, lest it fall off to the most minor of damage again. And this is fine. MF has meaningful weaknesses. She doesn't need like 5 more, and LoveTap does this
I "ignored" most of it because you wrote so long and I didn't want to reply with a long reply. In an earlier post I said that her being an aoe marksman (someone who's role is to deal damage to as many enemies as possible), Love Tap fits her kit very well. You poke them down with occasional Love Taps and then you just wither them down until they are low enough to kill with an all in strategy or ult. I personally wouldn't want her Q to get nerfed just to make give her more base AD. It's already semi-hard to land perfectly and the reward should feel good. You are correct that E is not hard cc, but its cast range was increased by 200 which allows her to slow down enemies that are very far from her giving her that extra time to escape with the buffed strut (now scaling up to 100 movement speed with w ranks). The cast time is hardly noticable. Love Tap enhances her weakness a bit but it greatly strengthens her in her new play style. I'd even say she's a bit too strong with her new passive. Riot has already stated they are going to watch her post-release and change the numbers if necessary.
: **_"Oh I see now... you are a MF main... Of course you would be against change."_** Can you actually argue my points instead of attacking me? No, I am not against change. MF has been changed tons since I first played her in Season 3. I was looking forward to the changes and like I said, when I read them, I was ecstatic. In practice though I was left not only disappointed but worried. Stop resorting to low tier attacks on my character. And No. MF isn't My Main. Talon and Lulu are. MF is merely my main Marksman of choice along with Graves, who's changes, while drastic, are great for him ans they synergies and compliment his character, style and identity exceptionally well. MF's don't. Change is not inherently good or bad. Change can be good as it can be bad. The idea that making something different automatically makes it better is incredibly shortsighted. Change for the sake of change is often hazardous. Change has to be made for a reason and as far as I can tell, Love Tap exists as a change for the sake of it. As it is, it doesn't fit MF at all let alone compliment her core identity. It actually half-way overrides her identity and walls her into being half way. What they want is to make Auto attacks feel distinct from one another and make Marksman all feel like they have their unique strengths and reasons to use them, focus on it, and push them into that direction. MF already had an identity. AOE Wombo combo Marksman. LoveTap doesn't do this. It splits her attention across 2 targets rather than emphasizing her niche in hitting as many targets targets in an area as possible. It also punishes her for not doing so as opposed to rewarding her for doing so. **_"The world doesn't revolve around you."_** Oh please. It seems more to me that you just personally _**really like the changes**_ and are blinded to its issues. How about I return that back at you.** "The world doesn't revolve around _you_"**, and me like many others (the vast majority in fact) have all expressed great issue with MF in her current state on PBE. If you have nothing else to contribute to the discussion, just leave. You aren't helping anyone or anything. Love Tap could easily be remedied by making her autos behave similarly to her Q, whenever she lovetaps, instead of her hitting like a wet noodle whenever she doesn't. That would reinforce her role as an AoE marksman, help her combo potential, make her lane harass interesting AND have riot keep heir cute and silly idea of constantly switching targets for optimal damage without ruining her and punishing her for not doing so. It would reward the player for mastery and being able to do so while looking for opportunities to do it, instead of lowering her damage to points that make her pointless outside of a well places R. Any number of things can be done to fix it.
Didn't notice you replied to me... I didn't attack towards you. The point was that it's normal for players who 'main' a character to defend their old play style. And that is what I see you doing (even if you don't practically main her). Very understandable. However I don't see Love Tap as a change that was made just for the sake of change. It actually plays very well with her kit. It gives her enough dps, when used properly, to wipe out the enemies in conjunction with her other abilities when you get them low enough. The bouncing Q idea on Love Tap seems interesting but Riot would obviously also have to reduce her base AD since it's extra damage. Riot can't just straight up buff her damage output without taking it off somewhere else. Only negative thing that comes to my mind from Love Tap is that people can have hard times using it with high ping/lag. Dueling potential went down but I'm fine with it since she has tools to prevent those situations (strut + E). > and me like many others (the vast majority in fact) have all expressed great issue with MF in her current state on PBE. It's hard to say how many of them are defending her just for the sake of not wanting change and how many actually think the design is flawed (they all say it's flawed but the reasoning on some of them is just not convincing).
: hey uh, i'm gonna play courier here, the guy replied to the whole thread instead of replying to you, uh. if you want to check it out, it should be not too low under my comment. i didn't read your whole discussion but i'd like to chime {{champion:432}} in with one question: do you think her AD values [being lower than many supports] are good to go as is, taking into account all game situations that she will be faced with, as an ADC?
> do you think her AD values [being lower than many supports] are good to go as is, taking into account all game situations that she will be faced with, as an ADC? Overall yes. Love Tap compensates a lot of the power she lost as base AD. It scales from 60-100% of her total AD increasing as she levels + now also benefits from life steal. If you manage to proc it few times, it's already going to have more value than her previous base AD would have. There is no such rule that a champion should perform well in every situation due to their base AD. Giving her situational power allows her to be great in certain situations while weaker at others, in this case she's weaker when caught by a single enemy. Her weakened base AD is often enough to deal with targets with low hp when used together with her attack speed steroid.
: Reduced summoner spell cooldown is inconsistent
I also had a game where I bought all the summoner spell cdr reductions and had the insight mastery. Flash was reduced to around 215 seconds if I remember correctly. It should be reduced to 180 seconds. 15% from insight 10% from lucidity boots 15% distortion enchant 40% total 300 sec x 0.6 = 180 sec
: Can Nashor's Tooth have an additional Amplifying Tome in its build path (like Athenes, Morello & DC)
I support the second idea (without the additional dagger). Stinger can be thus removed.
: Well thats why W cd got also buffed . Its 8secs now while on live servers its 12secs ( 10secs is better than 12secs right?)
The problem still exists. If you proc love tap 10 times when w is active and each proc extends the duration by 2 seconds, that's 20 seconds of w buff which has to first expire before W can starts that 8 sec cd. Not optimal when w also has that instant movement speed portion on active. I think 1.5 sec extention per Love Tap is more than enough to continuously keep proc'ing further Love Taps.
: Miss Fortune PBE Feedback Thread
Back after another game in the PBE, this time playing against MF. Something disturbing happened at the end of the game where the enemy MF ulted and I didn't take any damage even though the ult animation was clearly hitting me at the end of the cone. So is the hitbox not matching the animations or what? Would like Riot to fix this problem. If not by increasing the hitbox, then by changing the animation to fix the current hitbox.
: Give us some suggestion on how we could make this more obvious. Right now we play a countdown sound, change the lock-in button appearance, and show a warning message. In the future we're also going to have a big orange background in the bottom part of the champion grid behind. We know this is going to be a change for players and we want to make it as obvious as possible that you need to lock-in without going completely overboard.
If people are browsing the web and the client is on the background, the ticking noise could be amplified. Maybe even add a personal "Submit your selected champion" voice notification when there's like 10 seconds left (with the same announcer that is used in game).
: Hey guys, Thanks for continuing to post - I've been trying my best to keep up with all the info. I'm seeing a few patterns in the feedback and I would like to address them and talk to you guys about the next steps forward. **1. Bullet Time is almost certainly buffed at every point in the game (especially late game with items)** Seen some posts saying the Bullet Time changes aren't a substantial buff, but mathematically that is pretty untrue. The 1 place where some weirdness might occur is at level 6 because of the lack of a separate base damage (which is somewhat deceptive because R now scales with Total AD - there is an actual base damage essentially). **2. Weaknesses in MF's Kit** Want to make it clear that we have no intent to remove intended weaknesses from MF's kit. She is intended to be immobile once jumped on and is supposed to make hard decisions on when she has time and space to sit still and channel R. As far as her dueling potential goes, yes MF will be a worse duelist in a brute force scenario, but she should absolutely dominate in other ones. The base AD changes are certainly harsh, but it feels like the power of Love Tap and its interaction with the W active are being vastly underestimated. Overall, we are not observing MF to be underperforming both internally and on PBE. **3. Love Tap is not rewarding enough to use** This one is being heard loud and clear. This doesn't mean we're removing Love Tap, would like to explore making it more worth utilizing instead. There's a possibility that we are simply pushing too much power budget here that forces her into too niche of a use case, but Love Tap is providing a new and unique way of interacting with the game - confident we can make it worthwhile. The following changes should be in the next build: **Love Tap** * Now benefits from Life Steal **Strut** * Love Taps now extend the duration by 1 second (2 vs. champions) instead of 0.75 seconds (1.5 vs champions)
I don't think Love Tap extention time should be as high as 2 seconds. If you are able to proc it many times and then have to retreat, you potentially have to wait like 10 seconds before the steroid buff expires and W cooldown starts. That's not good especially since W has that instant strut mechanic when activated. Either make Love tap extend the duration by 1 sec (1.5 sec against champions) or make W cooldown start from the moment she activated it instead of when the steroid ends. Life steal on Love Tap might be too strong and heavily impact her building options to favor major life steal items.
: The assist pool from consecutive assists has been removed actually. Let me add that to the original post as well. We've shifted a lot more gold into both global sources, the T1 support items and ambient gold for supports to compensate for this as well.
: [PBE - 5.22] Adjustments to Killstreak Bounty Rules and Bounty Displays
What about gold from consecutive assists? You know: "_If a player has 2 more assists than kills they earn 30 additional gold for their next assist. If they have 3 more, it's 45, and 4 more assists than kills reaches the bonus cap of 60 extra gold. This bonus cannot be more than the original value of the kill. _" Which allows supports to get fed with scores like 0/5/25... Are these changes going to balance things out for the losing team supports?
: Hey guys, there's been a lot of awesome feedback in the thread. So much that I don't have the capability of responding to you guys individually in this case So instead, I want to ask some generalized questions that will help guide us forward (try to keep answers brief and concise): **1. What is your assessment of her general power level on PBE? Does she feel overall strong or weak? 2. What is your assessment of her power level in lane? 3. Is last hitting minions difficult? 4. What is your assessment of her power level in late game? 5. What is your assessment of Bullet Time's power level at level 6? At Level 16? 6. Does Love Tap feel effective and rewarding when it can be utilized (note that the adjustments made to Love Tap on Friday have not hit PBE)?**
1. Quite strong against more than one target. Single target scenarios are so so, which is fine by me. 2. Strong poke and strong dps when able to proc Love Tap. 3. Not really. 4. Strong with proper build. 5. Strong and satisfying. 6. Yes. Maxing W might be the way to go since it's quite crucial to proc'ing Love Tap. Suggestion: I think W could be changed a bit. Since many MF players still want to max Q first and ignore the fact that W is very efficient with Love Tap, it would be cool if W attack speed increased in effect when proc'ing Love Tap in addition to the duration increase. There would have to be a cap of course. Let's say +140% attack speed. Example: Rank 1 W would increase attack speed by 15% per Love Tap requiring 10 Love taps to be proc'd to have full effect (10 x 15% = 140%) while a rank 5 W would increase attack speed by 35% per Love Tap and thus requiring only four target swaps to get the full effect (4 x 35% = 140%). This might however further weaken her in single target scenarios :/ Scratch the idea!
: > [{quoted}](name=Vonler,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=6iHdauEu,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-02T14:37:12.375+0000) > > > > "Aoe dmg = dealing damage to more than single target > swapping targets = dealing damage to more than single target" > > The term 'Aoe' is probably not right for target swapping. I apologize for the wrong use of the term. > > "Proc'ing Love Tap isn't fun. I don't feel rewarded for doing it. It feels like a chore I have to do to do any damage at all." > > Played a game with her and loved the mechanic. It might not be your cup of tea but some people like it. Btw the reward is HUGE when done right. > > She's also not totally useless even against a single target. Her ultimate deal huge damage as well as her Q especially if the first shot kills the target. No. Unless your target is standing still not attacking you, you do no damage to them. She has less AD than Lulu. AOE is to do damage in on area. Hence the term AoE (Area of effect). Target swapping isn't AoE. It is in only the most tangential sense. Target swapping is single target damage to a different target each time. Jinx's Rockets are AoE. Tristanna's E is AoE. Kayle's E is AoE. LoveTap is **not** AoE. The mechanic as it is now is inherently flawed. Only in lane (mostly just solo lanes) is it effective at all. In a real scenario it is counter intuitive and punishes MF for targeting the immediate threat. And yes she is useless versus a single target as everyone out damages her 1v1. You won't and shouldn't be using u;lti in a 1v1 scenario as it is not only not designed for it, but does less front loaded damage without its bases now. And No. Don't give me this (oh its just not your cup of tea" stuff. I really can't stand this cop-out of an argument. I like the idea on paper. it just doesn't work out in practice and doesn't mesh with MF's identity at all. Had this been given to a new champion, or even Draven, it wouldn't be even remotely the issue it is. MF is a glorified Ulti atm, as it is all she has now. I mean, her Q is still as strong as ever, but her actual job as a Marksman and ADC simply isn't being fulfilled as it should now. LoveTap is effectively a straight nerf, as the bonus damage does not apply to crit damage, that is lost damage as they nerfed her rartios to compensate for this gimmick. On top of this, it gives her lousy turret taking power, as turrets do not take damage from Love Tap. It simply doesn't even come close to making up for the loss of Impure shots, as Love Tap does less effective damage on target and even less where it matters. Never before has it felt bad to attack a target in league for me. The closest thing i can compare it too is Irelia, but she still gets something for using her E. She is just rewarded with something better for using it correctly. MF is punished for not constantly switching targets by being regulated to the damage of a low AD ranges AP support. Miss Fortunes Q has nothing to do with this, as it behaves just like it does on Live right now, except with no Impure shots. LoveTap isn't doing anything to make it particularly better. Currently on Live, the bonus damage on bounce for killing a unit has been up for months as it was added many patches ago. it isn't new. That has nothing to do with the problem here. I don't know if you even play the champ, but as a MissFortune player, this worries me greatly, as every other ADC has received changes that strengthens their identity, however, MF seems to have been just slapped things onto her in an attempt to see what sticks, instead of pushing her into the realm she excelled at. Something previous patches that are actually on Live as we type have strives to do over several months and have utterly achieved.
And what would make it so much different if it was given to Draven (except making his axe catching even more frustrating)? Oh I see now... you are a MF main... Of course you would be against change. Who would want their main to be changed in drastic manners when you specifically got into playing them due to their play style. But still, change is overall good and you'll just have to deal with it. The world doesn't revolve around you. I can't speak for Riot why they have decided to take this approach on her. But I'd guess that they want marksmen to not be the "role that mindlessly auto attacks".
: Been supporting the past few games and I noticed that you can't target {{item:3092}} . It will just proc cooldown and make a sound upon activation.
I don't think it's supposed to be targeted. It should work similarly to Twin Shadows by spawning two ghosts to slow down two nearby enemies.
: But she can't switch targets constantly. Right now anyone can jump on her and kill her instantly, cuz she has no dmg in a 1v1 situation.
Every champion has their weaknesses. For Miss Fortune it's 1v1 scenarios. It's only a matter of adjusting your playstyle to the new mechanics. With the help of a support or a tank she's still able to deal meaningful dmg to single targets.
: > [{quoted}](name=Vonler,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=6iHdauEu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-01T11:15:27.642+0000) > > "this is not her identity" > > She has two guns, her Q has always been a spell that hits two targets and her ult is an aoe dmg ability. > She's an aoe marksman and now has a dedicated niche which allows her to be superior to other picks in certain situations. > > "MF is terrible when not playing within it and okay when playing within in" > > "okay"? She's able to hit two enemies as effectively as other adc hitting one target. You gotta remember that her attack speed steroid duration is also increased when proc'ing love tap. > > "i literally kept attacking a cassiopeia and i was dealing 36 damage. at lvl 5. and she was doing 44. no AD items on either. i ulted a minion wave at lvl 8 an didn't kill a single one. NOT OKAY." > > You can't just go in a 1v1 duel with MF in the early game. You need to poke them down with Q. Commit to the kill when they get low enough. In a 1v2 or 2v2 you just need to activate your W and kill them both. Her ultimate dmg was increased so you must have not had any items to not kill a minion wave at level 8. Firs,t how is constantly having to switch targets related to AOE? It only applies on hit and gives you no real benefit for switching targets. It reals more like I'm being punished for not doing so. You can't 1v1 anyone at any point in the game. If there is no other target, MF hits like a noodle. This is inherently flawed design. Her old Impure shots fit her more by doing bonus stacking damage to targets she hit up to a cap, rewarding her for hitting as many people as possible to get as much bonus damage as possible. And unlike Love Tap, it was applied by her Ulti. You know, her bread and butter? Not only did they ruin her actual damage in order for a rare accordance situation to be her bread and butter, something that isn't realisticlaly going to be feasible, but it is an inherent damage loss since Love Tap doesn't crit. Proc'ing Love Tap isn't fun. I don't feel rewarded for doing it. It feels like a chore I have to do to do any damage at all. When Vayne gets all 3 silver procs on a target, she feels rewarded for it. MF doesn't. Love Tap feels like an idea someone on the dev team thought up and threw on MF to see if it sticks and rebuilt her around rather than around her actual identity.
"Firs,t how is constantly having to switch targets related to AOE?" Aoe dmg = dealing damage to more than single target swapping targets = dealing damage to more than single target The term 'Aoe' is probably not right for target swapping. I apologize for the wrong use of the term. "Proc'ing Love Tap isn't fun. I don't feel rewarded for doing it. It feels like a chore I have to do to do any damage at all." Played a game with her and loved the mechanic. It might not be your cup of tea but some people like it. Btw the reward is HUGE when done right. She's also not totally useless even against a single target. Her ultimate deal huge damage as well as her Q especially if the first shot kills the target.
: But she got like 46(+1 per level) ad I think which is VERY low compared to other adcs
And for a good reason: Her new passive, Love tap, gives her attacks a lot of power when swapping targets. Late game it's around 200 dmg when swapping targets.
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Vonler

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