Rioter Comments
: I agree we're not left with a lot of item choices in terms of getting damage, but (while I don't agree with this) I think that may have been Rito's goal with these reworks. It's unfortunate, but she's got a lot of CC / farming tools, so I'm not totally put-off by it. I've actually found good success with sheen items, either Iceborn or Trinity. I built Trinity when I was snowballing, actually amped my damage hard. Q -> Auto, W -> Auto, E -> Auto, they all feel pretty okay, it's only on-hits like titanic / wit's end / etc that feel bad because we only auto in short sports, not all of the time. I take a sheen item along with Grasp of the Undying, and it feels like I can at least contribute a bit to damage numbers. But yeah, E into Sheen + Passive + Grasp procs, try that out. Trinity if you're snowballing and/or need bigger damage, Iceborn if you want the HUGE slow it provides with the bonus armor from your Passive.
I've actually been debating keystones for a bit now, so I'll try that out. One of my main problems with Sej (toplane, anyway) was her lower mana pool, so I'll certainly try it out. Out of curiosity, what runes are you running and why?
: I agree with the boar attack animation on passive, I think that would actually be so goddamn cool. Whenever you freeze someone bristle just noms them. Amazing! Disagree with most of the rest, W1+2 are in a good spot now, W does not need an AD ratio (if anything an AP ratio to give back some sort of usefulness to AP runes and/or builds)
> Disagree with most of the rest Expected, most of these are incomplete thoughts. > W1+2 are in a good spot now The ability itself is in a good spot, yes, but I'm speaking more about how she interacts with items and the rest of her kit. Number-wise, it's fine imo. The fact that you can't activate anything other than Q during W's cast time has frustrated me often enough to prompt me to mention it. It feels clunky in conjunction with items that enhance auto attacks (Sheen), active items of any sort (Randuins, Gargoyle, Tiamat items, etc.) can't be used until the cast time is finished, which with certain actives can really screw you, and if you really need to cast your E or R, you're boned. I'd be happy with most anything that fixes these issues. Aside from E's boring activation mechanic (though everything building up to the actual activation and afterwards is good, so I'm inclined to forgive it), this is the biggest sore spot with Sejuani for me, and it's the best solution I could come up with :) > W does not need an AD ratio I completely agree, I was just saying it feels a little weird the way it works now. If it were to gain an AD ratio (which makes much more sense than an AP ratio, seeing as it deals physical damage), I fear that AD Sejuani would become the norm, and I suspect that's the reason why there's not one there to begin with. If anything were to get an AP ratio, I would like it to be Icebreaker.
: 4/25 Happy with the latest iteration, toning down her slightly. W Hitbox: 160 ->145 (Spell was cheating, reduced to match indicator) HP Ratio 1st/2nd: 2/5% -> 1.5/4.5%
> Hitbox: 160 ->145 (Spell was cheating, reduced to match indicator) Was wondering about that, it seemed like it was being a little generous. Only reasonable suggestions I really have left are thus: Could we use the old boar attack animations for Icebreaker? The ones Sejuani used to use while her W was active. It may make Bristle feel a little more involved, and makes the AA "reset" more plausible (Bristle's ready to pounce). E, as well, could throw an Axe instead of some blue cloud, fitting in with her tribe's emblem. This would require a little more attention from the Art team than the former, and I doubt they're free. --- Aside from that, It's probably about as good as it's going to get for a time. My wishlist for the character: * W1 and W2 become separate casts. The primary purpose of this is to alleviate the "lockout" period the spell creates. It's immensely frustrating to be unable to activate items, E, and R during the cast time, despite how brief it is. Additionally, Sheen and Tiamat items are rather difficult to apply effectively due to this ability, when they really should be ideal choices on her. * E targeting the nearest available unit, rather than requiring you to target someone. Often, there's only one or two targets at a time that Permafrost can be activated on, and in the case of two or more, they now have the ability to body-block for one another based on their positioning. * AD ratio on W. I kinda understand why this isn't a thing already (she's a tank, not a fighter), but it feels really weird to build AD (Black Cleaver/Titanic Hydra) and not increase the damage of this ability with it, even if ever so slightly. * "Warband" (E's passive) really feels like it should switch places with Icebreaker (I also feel it should allow movement through units Sejuani and nearby melee characters). I know you can't actually do anything with Frost stacks until you have E, and that's probably why it's not there to begin with, but this is only really a problem in the first 2 or 3 levels. Additionally, moving Icebreaker to an active ability slot gives the player the option to opt into increasing it's damage when they choose to do so.
: Did some iterations over the weekend to cut down on the number of forced mechanics that point to jungle. (Even though we want her to jungle, it probably can be done a bit more elegantly than having multiple jungle only interactions) **Compared to the old '4/23' changelist** Passve Icebreaker now always deals 400 damage vs monsters instead of max 400 W W1 knocks minions and monsters back W no longer deals bonus damage to monsters E No longer has reduced cd vs monsters Limits the number of jungle specific interactions to 1 (Icebreaker damage, which was already there anyway). I'm pretty confident these changes make her jungle significantly safer, would love feedback from less skilled jungles if such people exist here :p **Full 4/23 Changelist** Passive Frost Armor no longer broken by minions or small monsters Icebreker Damage: 15/20/25% -> 10/15/20% Icebreaker Damage vs monsters: max 400 -> always 400 W No longer self slows, not worth W1 now knocks back minions and monsters CD: 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 -> 9/8/7/6/5 1st hit Damage: 12/19/26/33/40 (+0.01HP) -> 30/35/40/45/50 (+0.02HP) 2nd hit Damage: 48/76/104/132/160 (+0.04HP) -> 40/80/120/160/200 (+0.05HP) Bonus damage to monsters: 20% -> 0%
Ran her through the jungle and the changes feel pretty good for her clear. Between the high damage on Icebreaker (400 is a ton in the early game) and the knockback on W, she can deal with pretty-much every camp handily post level-2. Honestly, it probably needs to be toned back a bit. She trades pretty well in the top lane with W now, assuming she hits both parts. W groups up minions very well for wave clearing and camp clearing, and it feels great. The area that W-1 strikes isn't terribly clear relative to W-2. An indicator for that would be great, even if it's brief, to give opponents an idea of her effective range. Sejuani takes scuttle crab stupidly quickly post level 2, one icebreaker combo (leading with W to knock off her damage resist) and she gets deleted, poor gal. W feels really good with the removal of the self slow and increase to damage, I feel much more involved in my combat now than before. Basic attacks seem to come more fluidly after W now as well, but still feel a bit clunky. E still feels unengaging to physically target and activate.
: Did some iterations over the weekend to cut down on the number of forced mechanics that point to jungle. (Even though we want her to jungle, it probably can be done a bit more elegantly than having multiple jungle only interactions) **Compared to the old '4/23' changelist** Passve Icebreaker now always deals 400 damage vs monsters instead of max 400 W W1 knocks minions and monsters back W no longer deals bonus damage to monsters E No longer has reduced cd vs monsters Limits the number of jungle specific interactions to 1 (Icebreaker damage, which was already there anyway). I'm pretty confident these changes make her jungle significantly safer, would love feedback from less skilled jungles if such people exist here :p **Full 4/23 Changelist** Passive Frost Armor no longer broken by minions or small monsters Icebreker Damage: 15/20/25% -> 10/15/20% Icebreaker Damage vs monsters: max 400 -> always 400 W No longer self slows, not worth W1 now knocks back minions and monsters CD: 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 -> 9/8/7/6/5 1st hit Damage: 12/19/26/33/40 (+0.01HP) -> 30/35/40/45/50 (+0.02HP) 2nd hit Damage: 48/76/104/132/160 (+0.04HP) -> 40/80/120/160/200 (+0.05HP) Bonus damage to monsters: 20% -> 0%
Looks a lot cleaner now, I was starting to notice a lot of jungle-specific things, so I'm happy it's been cut down. I look forward to testing it when it pushes to the PBE. > I'm pretty confident these changes make her jungle significantly safer, would love feedback from less skilled jungles if such people exist here :p *slowly raises hand* --- I've been playing with The Black Cleaver on her in the top-lane. Once her W's self-slow is removed, I think it may be a very solid item on her since she can use both the speed and armor shred well. I dunno if this interaction is intended or has been considered, but it may be something to keep an eye on. --- > W-1 knocks minions and monsters back How significant is the knockback? is it kinda like Grave's AA's? or more like an Alistar Headbutt?
: these are good changes, thank you. by 'small monsters,' does that include every monster that isn't a buff camp? or do gromp, big wolf, big raptor etc still break her armor? also have you considered making her W a 2-cast, or tried it and didn't find it satisfactory? trying to play around what is basically a slower rengar Q is really bothersome for me in-game; you could use it to make W1 more important to land, too, by tying W2's slow to champions you hit with it. at the moment W1 doesn't feel very important at all except as a telegraph to an already telegraphed ability. I feel like W2 would compliment her old attack reset much better than the PBE swing; would make Sheen items feel good on her again, too.
Historically, monsters have been split into three categories: * Small: Small Chickens, Baby Wolves, Little Krugs * Large: Gromp, Ancient Krug, Crimson Raptor, Elder Wolf, Scuttle * Epic: Blue, Red, Dragon, Baron, and Rift Herald So with these changes, Sejuani would be able to take out the large monster of wolves, Krugs, and Raptors pretty quickly, then start charging up her Frost armor while she deals with the leftover small monsters. It would then be available for the next camp pretty quickly afterwards. --- If W were to be made a two part spell (and I support the idea of this), I'd say that W-1 should have hit a Champion or Large/Epic Monster to allow activation of W-2, while reducing the range of W-1 a little bit, making W-1 quite important to land. Of course, with the current damage numbers on W-1, her clearing of minions and small monsters would suffer a bit. I'd suggest adding a slight delay to W-1 (so that both W-1 and W-2 have the same delay for consistency) so that it can receive damage increases without leaving opponents feeling like Sejuani just deals damage to them without anything they can do to stop or avoid it. I'd also like to add that I feel W-2 should trigger Icebreaker, especially if W-1 and W-2 were to become separate casts. They want to add a feeling of weight to the spell, and I think this fits the bill just fine. By breaking up W-1 and W-2 I too hope that sheen items would feel good on her again. it's a big point of annoyance for me right now.
: 4/23 Lot of changes, but most should be self explanatory Passive Frost Armor no longer broken by minions or small monsters Icebreker Damage: 15/20/25% -> 10/15/20% W No longer self slows, not worth CD: 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 -> 9/8/7/6/5 1st hit Damage: 12/19/26/33/40 (+0.01HP) -> 30/35/40/45/50 (+0.02HP) 2nd hit Damage: 48/76/104/132/160 (+0.04HP) -> 40/80/120/160/200 (+0.05HP) Bonus damage to monsters: 20% -> 30% E Frost cooldown on monsters: 4 seconds
> Passive Sounds good all around. I can't really say much more until these changes are actually pushed to PBE though > W The self-slow was a little cumbersome in general, but removing it should make Sej feel a little more moble. I think that the slow proc on W-2's hit is enough to give it that 'weighty' feel. The CD increase I'm fine with. Once you hit level 9 it's the same as before, but it was up a little often in the early game. Damage increases here make me happy, though the second swing already does pretty decent damage, this may need to be watched. Bonus damage to monsters may be unnecessary, we'll see > E Should help her jungle clear immensely, especially when paired with the W damage increases. Between the stun and Icebreaker damage though, this may be a little too much help. --- Overall looks like a step in the right direction. I'll provide more detailed feedback when I'm able to (when the PBE updates with these changes.)
: Hey thanks for the detailed feedback! The next changelist should address most of what you brought up here but wanted to talk about the Permafrost change you pitched. It was actually the very first iteration I tried in testing (although the very first one procced off slows instead of melee attacks), it had a number of issues that caused me to move away from it: The spell lacked the feeling of intent, both from Sejuani and the enemy. The were numerous cases where Sejuani stunned someone (while looking at someone else who also had stacks) and went 'oh that guy got stunned?' (or worse, didnt realize it) and the enemy felt that he got stunned 'collaterally' It was immensely powerful when it did work out (rarely). Even though the current one has a minuscule cooldown on it, the power difference between a simultaneous stun (on a basic) and a staggered one was massive. Sejuani was encouraged to hold it for the multi stun, but was consistently frustrated that her allies could not get the stacks / stacks fell off (and we were unable to let Sejuani herself reliably stack multiple targets at once for power reasons). This led to Sejuani just looking for the single stun, which was not fun for anybody.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me, I can see how that would lead to cases where this wouldn't work out. I apologize for kinda beating you over the head with this in pretty much every post I've made :P (To be honest, I'm not surprised this is something you've tried already, so thanks for having patience with me.) I still do feel like it could use something. Maybe the spell feels really boring simply because so much of your damage feels loaded into Icebreaker? W feels engaging to use, Q requires some skill and timing to aim, but most of your damage is gated behind a spell you simply activate whenever it's available. It doesn't really make me feel cleaver to use. Perhaps have Icebreaker, when triggered, deal some AoE damage and apply a stack of frost to surrounding enemies (if applicable)? This could give the spell some importance in timing (wait till he's in the middle of his team, then stun him, suddenly his team is scrambling away from him) while also helping out her jungle clear a bit. I stand by my suggestion to have W-2 trigger Icebreaker though, especially in this situation. So perhaps the stun itself can be a little dull so long as the gameplay around it becomes more engaging, and most of her power isn't gated behind it.
: 4/21 Passive CD 15 -> 9 No longer scales down with movement Now ignores minions at 7 and non epic monsters at 14 (a la Garen) W 2nd hit places a brief slow on enemies it hits, Sejuani is also slightly slowed when she is attacking (mostly to add the feel of weight, feedback here would be very appreciated) W radius larger Fixed a bug that caused Sejuani to move into the target when she right clicks them while casting W
The changes to Frost Armor are in the right direction. Not being broken by minions at 7 is a huge thing for Lane Sejuani, though by the time Jungle Sejuani hits 14 she probably doesn't care so much about non-epic monsters breaking Frost Armor (I dunno, I haven't been able to make her work very well in the jungle yet). The cooldown changes are nice, though I would have settled for 12 seconds while retaining the cd scaling down with movement, I did like that facet of the ability and often purchased and played around it. --- W-2 feels a little better, the fix for moving through your target when you cast the ability improves the usability a ton. This said, I've noticed a slight "delay" between when the ability visually ends and when you can actually act (cast spells, activate items, etc), if this is tightened up (so that, for instance, you could basic attack right as the ability ends visually) it would feel even better to use. The slow for hitting W-2 feels good, it's brief but feels nice to land. The self-slow is a little more than "slight", it's nearly 100ms. I'd like to see Frost Armor's immunity to slows applied here, if for nothing but consistency, but also because it would allow the player to feel the difference between W with Frost Armor, and W without, making Frost Armor a more important part of the kit without actually doing anything. I'd also have the slow build up over a very brief period of time, rather than all at once, as if she's aiming the swing. It's a little jarring the way it currently stands. --- --- --- **Unrelated to the changelist** Icebreaker. I'm fine with Icebreaker providing some burst, I'm happy for the change of pace to be honest, but this should not be done at the expense of -**all**- Sejuani's sustained damage capabilities. I feel useless once I've triggered my Icebreaker damage, just waiting until the stun CD times out (fight's over by then most times) and I can apply Frost again because everything's so loaded into this ability. _Please_ tone down Icebreaker's burst and push some of those numbers into W (specifically, the base damage on W-1 and the scaling on both W-1 and W-2. It could be AD, AP, or additional HP scaling, but it needs something), this will both help her jungle clear (because icebreaker doesn't work on small monsters) and make her feel more fair to play against. **Personally, I'd make Icebreaker E's passive, and allow the damage to scale off AP/Health/Whatever (after the base has been reduced, obviously), while normalizing the stun duration, while moving the "Warband" passive currently on E over to "Fury of the North"**. This would allow players to opt into increasing Icebreaker's damage through alternative builds, which people have been asking for, while also reducing the absurd power loaded into this ability currently. --- **Permafrost (E) feels extremely bad. This is the biggest issue with her kit currently.** Everything else can be tweaked and fiddled with and shuffled around, because those are mostly a matter of numbers at this point, but this needs serious attention before it goes live. You want Sejuani to tend towards the bursty side of tanks, but I think you're going about it all wrong by loading it all into Icebreaker. Make Permafrost (E) similar to what it is on Live, one big AoE triggering of Frost stacks on enemies around her. Suddenly her gameplay becomes much more focused around the timing of that ability (stunning as many enemies as possible with a single cast), her positioning during the fight (in the middle where she can activate as many Frostbitten targets as she can and apply as much of it as possible), and once that ability is down her opponents have some room to breathe. It's still a critical skill to her kit in this way, but much more engaging for everyone involved, especially compared to the current version. This would make for an excellent moment of burst damage during a fight, which can be followed up with targeted Icebreaker procs, that both sides can agree that Sejuani and her team built up towards. "But if you're stunning multiple targets at once, won't Icebreaker be much harder to trigger on everyone?" Allow W-2 to trigger Icebreaker (the animation fits it perfectly), and boom, you've added weight to the skill and provided a way for skilled Sejuani players to trigger multiple instances of Icebreaker at once, given proper timing and positioning with multiple spells, providing added depth to the character for hardly any effort.
: 4/21 W feels a little better to aim, mostly in the jungle as you predicted. Still feels lackluster, mostly given that so much time is invested into this attack, it really doesn't feel like it hits very hard, especially towards the latter end of the game. It's only advantages are that it's ranged and can be used as you move. E resetting the AA timer feels unnecessary to me. IMO, Sejuani attacks quickly enough that she's able to trigger Icebreaker with ease when the AA reset would be useful (melee range), making it redundant in most situations at best, and useless most of the time when you're stunning opponents at a range, I don't see a reason to keep this as it adds unnecessary power. --- Issues: * Sej's passive indicator (the flail) is a little difficult to see at a glance, it would help if you brightened it up a bit since it's difficult to tell if I've got 2 or 3 stacks at a glance. * W damage is lackluster for the time investment, especially considering that it locks you out of item actives, and use of E and R abilities. * E feels bad, there's no skill expression or nuance to it, just activate as it becomes available (unless W locks you out of it during it's cast time). Why bother even dedicating an entire ability for the stun's activation if it's just going to be activated as soon as possible anyway? But if it automatically activates, it's basically a better version of Braum's passive. **If you do nothing else, please devote your attention to improving E (Permafrost), it is the biggest thing bringing Sejuani down in terms of engaging gameplay right now**.
Personally speaking, (with no design experience to my name, so take it or leave it) I would do something along the lines of the following: * Move "Icebreaker" (the stun bonus damage) from her Passive (Fury of the North) to E (Permafrost), **and have Icebreaker's damage scale with Health, AP, and rank.** * Move Frost stacking passive from E (Permafrost) to Passive (Fury of the North). Fits Sejuani's thematic better if it's active from the get go without needing to invest skill points, and it wouldn't make sense for an active ability to have two passives. * E returned to similar functionality as on live, but with lower range and a longer cooldown (20s?). Consumes all stacks of Frost on nearby targets, dealing damage and slowing each target struck for an amount based on how many stacks were consumed (and, obviously, stunning those with 4 stacks). Frost can now be applied Minions and Small Monsters, but only one stack (to prevent visual clutter). It could deal increased damage to these targets if it's seen as necessary. * W-2 now either triggers the stun on enemies struck with 4 stacks of Frost (note, they would need to have 4 stacks of Frost --before-- struck by W-2, if W-2 applies the 4th stack, go fish.), or trigger Icebreaker on already stunned enemies, or possibly both? One of these would make W feel a lot more impactful and useful at later stages of the game, though I prefer the former of the three, as the opponent still has agency to dodge the attack.
: Sejuani Feedback Thread
4/21 W feels a little better to aim, mostly in the jungle as you predicted. Still feels lackluster, mostly given that so much time is invested into this attack, it really doesn't feel like it hits very hard, especially towards the latter end of the game. It's only advantages are that it's ranged and can be used as you move. E resetting the AA timer feels unnecessary to me. IMO, Sejuani attacks quickly enough that she's able to trigger Icebreaker with ease when the AA reset would be useful (melee range), making it redundant in most situations at best, and useless most of the time when you're stunning opponents at a range, I don't see a reason to keep this as it adds unnecessary power. --- Issues: * Sej's passive indicator (the flail) is a little difficult to see at a glance, it would help if you brightened it up a bit since it's difficult to tell if I've got 2 or 3 stacks at a glance. * W damage is lackluster for the time investment, especially considering that it locks you out of item actives, and use of E and R abilities. * E feels bad, there's no skill expression or nuance to it, just activate as it becomes available (unless W locks you out of it during it's cast time). Why bother even dedicating an entire ability for the stun's activation if it's just going to be activated as soon as possible anyway? But if it automatically activates, it's basically a better version of Braum's passive. **If you do nothing else, please devote your attention to improving E (Permafrost), it is the biggest thing bringing Sejuani down in terms of engaging gameplay right now**.
: Taric E isn't a good comparison here. Taric uses it to line up hard CC in lane, we use it to apply 2 out of 4 frost stacks, and, primarily, to farm. Taric doesn't want to autoattack while he's lining up, we definitely do.
Actually, Taric's E is is only ability without a cast time, which means that, if he can, he most certainly wants to AA during it for his passive. He simply doesn't have the luxury of doing so most of the time.
: Sejuani Feedback Thread
Made a thread on the subject that you can find [here in case you've not seen it](https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/qqNeNEfQ-thoughts-on-sejauni). _TL:DR_ Passive Frost Armor resistances are a bit high, but donesn't actually do much after the fight's begun. Icebreaker's damage feels absurd. If you were going for an in-and-out style of character, good at skirmishes, but not at long fights, I guess Frost Armor fulfils that some. * I'd prefer to see the passive resistances lowered some, and Icebreaker's damage lowered as well, but have Frost Armor refresh when Icebreaker is triggered. Q * No problems with this skill W's Issues I've noted elsewhere, but the skill doesn't feel terribly good to use. * The ability to move around while casting this ability really gives Sejuani the feel of a mobile character without needing to be very quick herself, but the inability to do anything other than move or activate Q (Basic attacks, E, R, and active items need not apply) really hurts my liking of this ability. I understand that allowing Sejuani to basic attack during the cast time would be absurd (4 stacks of E's passive REALLY quick), but it really makes her feel sucky. Also, the first part of this ability reaches a little too far in my opinion, it could stand to lose a little range if necessary. I'm not really fond of E. There's very little thought that goes into this ability, if someone can be stunned, you stun them ASAP so that the cooldown starts ticking down. * I really like Sejuani's E on live because it provided one of Sejuani's few little high moments she was allowed to have outside her ult (the other being knocking someone up with Q), so I'm a little sad to see it go. More than that however, I feel like it would fit better here than the current iteration, especially with the stacking system you have going on right now. It would provide much more interesting choices for the player regarding when to activate it (stun the one guy and slow a few others a little, or wait, possibly lose the stacks on the first guy, but stun other people?), while also giving Sejuani a clear period of weakness after it's activation (since she'd have to wait to use it again). This would also preclude the need for stun timers on individual targets, and allows Sejuani and her team to stack up Frost on opponents consistently (though I would certainly allow for a brief period of immunity). No complaints regarding the new ultimate from me. It feels good to use without being game-shattering (heh), and is up fairly often so it feels more like a part of her kit. The fact that it does more damage when I don't hit someone makes me consider where I'm throwing it a little more (because there have been times where I want the damage or slow rather than the stun for whatever reason, so I'm aimed it appropriately), so that's provided a little more interesting gameplay to me. --- Overall, I like it. I have some gripes, but she's more fun than she was before, so thank you.
: Do you find Taric E clunky as well? This was a worry I had with the W, where the targeting paradigm is a relatively foreign one. It probably is the freedom of movement you have while you are swinging the W2. I wanted to maintain complete freedom of movement while casting W but it definitely takes a hit in making the spell feel less weighty. Tell me if it starts growing on you with plays or it remains foreign.
The main issue I have with W is that you can't use basic attacks or perform any other spells during the casting. It is dissimilar to Taric's E in this way, you're still free to cast all of his other spells and use basic attacks with him (and actually, it's the only spell of his without a cast time, which makes it great weaving in his passive attacks, his other spells are really irritating in this regard). I don't think it's the targeting paradigm that makes the spell clunky, it's this lack of ability to take action during the cast time that makes it annoying to use. The only thing you CAN do, is cast Q, and move, and when clearing the jungle, or trying to basic attack minions mid-swing, you tend to move forward more than you want and miss for that reason, rather than because you weren't aiming well. I can hit Taric's E really easily with a little practice because one of the mechanisms by which I control my movement (stopping to basic attack a target) is consistent with other melee characters, and Sejuani lacks this. This also makes purchases like Iceborn Gauntlet or Trinity force feel pretty bad on her, since W is your shortest CD ability, but you can't actually use the effects until forever after you actually activated the ability, and for IBG in particular, that sucks if you lose your passive armor in the meantime, and makes those feel like less impactful buys than they would otherwise be.
: I think the idea behind E is that it's meant to give counterplay by making her choose who stun in what order, which I'm fine with Absolutely agree that the damage on her freezepop needs to be taken down. 25% max hp is just way too high and means the rest of her abilities have to suck damage-wise.
I'd rather something like 10%, but have it refresh her defensive steroid (Frost Armor, I think?)
: Her Q has changed -- its cooldown is lower at early ranks. Also, her ult is actually stronger than her old one against 1 or 2 champions. It's now a 2 second stun (regardless of rank) instead an an AoE 1.25 second stun (at rank 1). Her overall power level has gone way up to the point where she's clearly overtuned on the PBE currently. Between her potential 4 second stun, 50% max health shred (keep in mind that she can E > Ult for a double stun) and huge steroid on her passive. So in terms of balance I don't think anything needs improving (quite the opposite it seems). Perhaps E could use some usability tweaks but that's about it. Otherwise her new E is far stronger than the old one. A point and click 2 second stun (combined with the obscene damage of icebreaker) is just about one of the strongest abilities in league including ultimates. I do like the mechanic as well. I've played Sej since her release in 2011 and always thought it was fairly bland of an ability. There is no skill expression or counterplay to it, which always prevented it from being really powerful as well. It was also always kinda weak until you ranked it up, while the new E is strong even if you don't level it (same goes for Q now as well, since its base cooldown is now respectable at rank 1).
I'm speaking more about usability than balance, since I'm not really qualified to be offering suggestions on balance. I'm not arguing that she's weak, she's really strong right now, like you said yourself, my thoughts are more oriented towards how the character feels to play, the kinds of decisions her, her team, and her enemies get to make, and how those fit into her theme. Regarding her Q, when I said "nothing's changed", i meant more along the lines of it's function, damage type, etc., but you're correct in saying that the CD is now lower at earlier ranks. Her ult is a 1 second stun at close range, if I'm not mistaken, but it does double to 2 seconds if it travels far enough.
: Sejuani - Gallop animation missing/disabled
Ah, I noticed this too. I thought I just wasn't moving fast enough, but it definitely looks strange.
Rioter Comments
: Sejuani's new permafrost
If this becomes a thing, I'd suggest having the stacks fall off one at a time, rather than all at once, like someone thawing out.
: Heya! We actually found the cause of this and are working on a fix now! Thanks for your report! {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
Thank you for being quick in finding and fixing it, cheers! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
  Rioter Comments
: Aatrox is a bruiser/diver. and his current damage is way higher than those mentioned, because its sustained dmg. {{item:3153}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3071}} and you outscale them all...
> Aatrox is a bruiser/diver. Well no shit Sherlock. Nowhere did I contend that Aatrox was anything other than a Diver (since "bruiser" isn't actually a class), I was simply discussing the steps that would need to be taken to make him into a Juggernaut. I don't want that to happen, I like him fine the way he is, but I was exploring the possibility. > and his current damage is way higher than those mentioned, because its sustained dmg. ... Aatrox has more sustained damage than those mentioned in a 1v1, sure, but I'd take Darius or Illaoi (Yorick not so much) any day over Aatrox when it comes to teamfights, assuming equal skill level. Even in 1v1's, all three are, at the very least, par for the course, if not better.
: Aatrox criticisms and suggestions
I too find the base AD increase from his passive odd. Even though it applies to his primary damage source (AA's), it's a little irksome. This said, it makes Sterak's (a primarially Juggernaut item) pretty damn good on him, since the base AD increases multiply one another. I agree with the Q QoL buff. I find the healing to be acceptable to be honest now. Given that most of Aatrox's abilities don't have any cost to them now, there's less of a constant healing need. > ps make him a juggernaut Having played Aatrox for awhile now, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea. They'd need to remove his ability to freely hop walls via Dark Flight (Q) though, to make him a true juggernaut, as they're defined as largely immobile characters. Most of em have some sort of speed ability, but nothing that allows them to freely jump walls like Aatrox does. That's not to say that Dark Flight should be removed as an ability, just that it would certainly not be the same as it currently is. Also, Aatrox doesn't have quite the same crazy damage potential other Juggs currently have. Illaoi, Yorick, Darius, and others can delete whole teams in a matter of moments if left unchecked, while Aatrox is better at killing a single target at a time, more akin to Fiora, Jax, or others like them. So he'd likely need some way to spread out his damage to become a decent juggernaut
: 7.5 cycle - Aatrox changes coming to the PBE
Firstly, thank you for giving Aatrox some much needed attention. > Bloodwell (Passive) Contrary to the opinions of others, I like the direction this passive is going. The "Blood Rush" active when the well is filled is a nice window of power both sides have an opportunity to play around. I have two issues with this, however. --- First, the fact that the passive revival only functions when in a "Blood Rush" state is very annoying, given both how long it lasts, and how easy it is to avoid. Personally, I'm fine with the duration, 4 seconds without hitting anything and you're probably out of steam anyway, but I find it irritating that you cannot refill your Bloodwell via spell-casts or Blood Price procs during the Blood Rush. Allowing Aatrox to extend the duration of his Bloodwell by filling it during the Blood Rush provides an interesting choice to the Aatrox player: Do you hold your spells to refill your Bloodwell more quickly after the Blood Rush has worn off, or do you use them now to extend your window of power? Shyvanah has this options, though it's a lot more protracted, when in her Dragon Form, generating Fury via basic attacks to sustain the form change. Similarly, I don't think it's really fair for the enemy who's managed to Kite Aatrox for 3 seconds, only for him to slap you once, for the Bloodwell to refill completely. I think abilities and basic attacks that connect with enemy champions should generate an additional 20% of the Bloodwell's capacity, but only during a Blood Rush. If you so desire, this could apply to Large/Epic Jungle Monsters as well, possibly with reduced effect. This would make up for the longer than average cast times Aatrox's abilities have. Changes along these lines give the Aatrox player the goal of reaching and sustaining a Blood Rush in a less binary manner than the current form. --- Second, while I like the base AD increase provided by the Blood Rush (mostly because it has a highly interesting interaction with {{item:3053}} ), only one of Aatrox's abilities (Dark Flight, his Q) actually benefits from the base AD increase, and for such an important part of his kit, that doesn't feel right. To be honest, I don't think much should be done about it. It's only a small thing that bugs me about his kit not fitting terribly well together, and this is just a stop-gap, so I'm not too worried. Because Aatrox is such an AA focused champion, he benefits from the Base AD increase well regardless of his ability scalings, but I can't help but wonder why his bonus or total AD wasn't selected instead (Well, I know why, the Base AD is a constant and it's easy to calculate it's effectiveness throughout the game, and therefore easy to budget). So all that said, I'm just thankful his passive works well with {{item:3053}}. > Dark Flight (Q) I don't have much to say about this that others haven't already stated. The spell is unreliable due to how laughably easy it is to interrupt and dodge. The high Total AD scaling on it is nice, but I don't know anyone that ever used it for damage to begin with, so it's rather moot. The removal of the health cost is nice, but overall never really bothered me. If anything were to be done, I'd like to see one portion of the spell (either the former where he rises up into the air, or the latter when he quickly slams down). Making the first part of it makes it so that a twitchy Aatrox player could use it to ignore important CC spells, but still making the actual dash interruptible. Flipping that around and making the latter half uninterruptible would hinder his ability to escape (as there's a short and very obvious delay that can be taken advantage of), but would give him a powerful Diving tool. Of course, if you don't go with either that's fine. I'm sure there are reasons you didn't to begin with, so that's not really my place to say one way or the other. At any rate, the CD of the ability, for what it does and how unreliable it is, is pretty poor, and could use attention, even if it's at the expense of the total AD ratio. > Blood Thirst/Price (W) The healing changes on Blood Thirst make stacking health (Which you had to do if you weren't laughably ahead to begin with) more reasonable now, so I'm happy for it. Many seem to be upset over the removal of the doubled healing below 50%, but the health return now naturally scales with missing health, so this is still effectively part of the skill, so I don't mind. Blood Price's health cost being removed is welcome, in my opinion, however, this has the side effective of making Death's Dance less optimal than before. The primary reason you got Death's Dance on Aatrox was to offset the self-damage you inflicted by using Blood Price, thus making it free, or even returning a little health to you upon it's use. By removing the health cost, Death's Dance is no longer necessary to use Blood Price effectively, thus opening up Aatrox builds to other items. This isn't to say that Death's Dance isn't still good on Aatrox, it is, but it's going to be more of a luxury item now, rather than a core part of his item set. Speaking of core items, I've got a prediction for you. Barring significant changes to the current version, I expect that these two items {{item:3124}} {{item:3053}} will become core parts of Aatrox's build path. Why these two items you may ask? Well, as mentioned earlier, Sterak's base AD boost and Attrox's Blood Rush base AD boost multiply off one another, and at later stages of the game these two effects in tandem, provide roughly 70 AD. If Sterak's passive activates, and it will if Aatrox is any sort of damage threat like he's supposed to be, and you can add another 30 or so AD to that. It's not going to be that impressive earlier in the game, but it just means that Aatrox wants to get his levels in as quickly as possible to increase the benefit his passive, Steraks, and Fervor of Battle. But what about Guinsoo's? Well, Aatrox only really needs one solid attack speed item to reach acceptable Attack Speed levels when he has full AS runes and masteries, freeing up item slots for other things, and Guinsoo's passive effect when fully stacked makes it much easier to activate Blood Price on his targets repeatedly. Because it gives a decent amount of AD (53) when fully stacked, it means that between Guinsoos, Fervor, Aatrox's passive, and Sterak's, you're looking at the very least, 100 AD once you've completed both items, and scaling up naturally as the game progresses, depending on the stage of the game. We'll see if this actually comes to pass though, I'm pretty hit or miss with this sort of thing. > Blades of Torment (E) So, I'll be frank: I don't really like the changes to this ability. As others have stated, the transition from Magic to Physical damage makes Aatrox's laning phase rather difficult against armor stacking individuals. I think that I understand the reasoning behind this, as a character with easy access to two kinds of damage is rather difficult to build against, but I suspect Aatrox will lose a large portion of his laning strength if this change goes through. Additionally, that are a few people that enjoy playing AP Aatrox from time to time, and changing this to Physical Damage pretty much kills that style of play. Some people are claiming that this has been done in an effort to make The Black Cleaver more appealing to Aatrox, but personally I've never cared much for it on him. The CDR is largely unappreciated, since Aatrox isn't reliant on his abilities to deal damage. The Health, AD, and Ms/Armor Shred passives are nice, but Aatrox simply doesn't apply it quickly enough or to enough members of the enemy team to justify, and changing one ability to deal physical damage isn't really going to change that, especially if it's at the expense of multiple other things. Because most of my damage comes from basic attacks, I'd rather just build a Trinity Force if I'm after the Phage effect, as it provides attack speed and the best Sheen effect in the game (even though I'd hardly ever use it, due to Aatrox's absurdly high CD's). > Conclusion Overall I like the changes, but some things could use some attention. Weather or not they're addressed, thanks again for looking at Aatrox. --- Was thinking about Blood Thirst/Price a little towards the end here, and how little Aatrox can use Sheen effects currently. If Blood Price was somehow an active effect (like a basic attack reset of some sort, maybe costing a bit of your stored Bloodwell to cast?) it would make Trinity Force+Sterak's incredibly powerful on him. If that's the direction you wanted to take him in with the base AD increase provided by his passive. It'd be interesting if Blood Thirst was a constantly active 3-hit proc, with Blood Price being the active effect, resetting Aatrox's basic attack and dealing the extra damage it does now, drawing from the Bloodwell to activate (the "Price" of it's activation). With the more dynamic Blood Rush mechanics discussed in the beginning of the post, it could provide for some interesting decisions if done well. --- Sorry, done now :P -Varios
: Adding Simple Recalls- Now on PBE!
As a (Devil)Teemo main, I am satisfied with the Recall change.
Rioter Comments
: > Locket seems underwhelming, though. I understand that the shield is strong - and I love the decaying change, as it promotes skillful use of the active - but the loss of both health and, what's more important, CDR, is going to hurt some tank supports. CDR loss is pretty impactful, I agree - but it was a major contributor of the 'man, every support build seems to overcap on CDR' issues. While it does lose a large chunk of health (and thus reasons to get the item early) - it has +30 Armor, +15 MR in comparison. Armor + MR on the same item mimics a % Health boost to a certain extent so the loss isn't as bad as I think it might be. Does hurt it in the dedicated anti-magic space - were it not for the fact that it'll have more MR than the live version. The shield active is actually crazy though. I think the best shield I've seen blocked 2700 damage in a team fight. (It has a little tooltip tracker on it displaying the damage you've blocked and your best shield.) > Redemption is great. Everyone who hasn't done that already, try it on Bard. It lines up perfectly with your ultimate. I like how it doesn't have CDR, as it's not an item to rush in lane. It.. it does have CDR. It builds out of Spoopy Idol which has CDr innately. > I believe one of the following changes would help: > CDR on Eye of the Equinox CDR on EoE might be interesting in the long run. I'll think about that for the future. > Glacial Shroud or Kindlegem in the build path of Knight's Vow When we tried Kindlegem on Knight's Vow - we found that we made an item that top laners mostly got. While not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself - there were playtests were there were essentially more Knights than people to bond to. :p > Zeke's Harbinger Amp Tomes replaced with Aether Wisp Harbinger is kind of a terrifying item when strong - so we're being cautious about it. We also have to watch movement speed creep as we've just added one more major form of it in Knight's Vow. > Buff Ohmwrecker (just get the supportanks a good Kindlegem upgrade) Yeah. Our reworks for this item keep failing or other things keep succeeding better than it. >_< > This would be pretty much my one and only question here - are supportanks not supposed to get CDR? Zeke's Harbinger doesn't really suit most tanks and with both Locket and Knight's Vow not having it, tank supports are going to have a really hard time getting there. We want to push support tanks back into considering Frozen Heart as an important pickup for them - hence the cost reduction. They share a lot of CDR itemization with other roles - but Warmog's (Health), Frozen Heart (Armor) and Spirit Visage (MR) should be their three primary CDR options outside of things they get innately like Face of the Mountain. While that may be fairly limited - Banner is also retuned to act as a CDR source for them if they want to aid their team in pushing.
Found an interesting interaction for Chalice that I'm not certain was intended: The bonus % Base Mana Regeneration provided by the following items: {{item:1039}} {{item:3706}} {{item:3711}} {{item:3715}} is affected by Chalice's passive, effectively providing both health and mana sustain fairly early in the game. Granted, it's limited to the jungle, but it's pretty nice for supporting junglers at least.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: MYMU - Vladimir Discussion
4/23/2016 Updated Feedback The changes to Tides of Blood (E) were great, they definitely feel like they fixed the issues I was having with the spell. The only gripe I have with it right now is that you can't cast it while you're in your Sanguine Pool (W), but some foresight easily rectifies this. Overall he feels very fluid to play and I don't feel like I'm getting screwed out of nowhere, If I miss someone with E it's my fault now. The healing from Q (which seems to trigger every other cast at certain points, which is strange and I don't know if it's intentional, I'm keeping an eye on it, but If it's intended, perhaps make it so that Vlad can't "store" a charge of it by making it decay. It fits him to be able to cast Transfusion twice initially for the Bloodlust, then only need one cast before Bloodlust is active again to trigger it while in combat, so that should be kept imo.) seems adequate later in the game, so all and all good job!
: 5 max per minion, so if you're somehow perfectly trapped in a point-blank rectangle of 4 minions, put in just the right places, they could conceivably block all 20 missiles.
Sweet! I'm going to hop on later today and drop another reply after I've played with it some more.
: As some guys ask me to paste my complete analyse here, i do will do it (even if i actually give a feedback on this thread) : I'm also a Vlad main, since his release (check Blue Vanity, NA server) :) ! But with my name ... it look like obvious :p ! ------- The Q spell damage output is lower in any case : After 12 sec : * Ancient Q : 230x4 + 0,6 AP ratio x4 = 920 damage + 2,4 AP ratio from Q after 12 sec. * New Q (first 12 sec) : (160x2) + 320 + (0,45 AP ratio x2) + 0,9AP ratio = 640 + 1,8AP ratio * New Q **in the best case** : 160 + (320x2) + 0,45 AP ratio + 0,9AP ratio x2 = 800 + 2,25 AP ratio Conclusion : Because of the extremly low base damage and the cooldown nerf, the spell is worst than the ancient in term of damage, anyway. And in fact, in game situation, he is even worst than he look because opponents can see your Crimson Rush gauge. She start to be full ? Run out for 3 seconds and Vladimir lose is now free to engage. A good player will avoid 100% of your empowered Q when you are not in all-in situation. And i don't exagerate about this amount. -------- W : You don't note that, but the spell take a nerf of ratio : 15% bonus HP > 10% That's not a problem anyway -------- E : This ability is strong versus unexperienced players and have a good DPS due to the cooldown start at the beginning of your charge, not at the end. And i don't think the spell is so bad : * Yes the cost is huge * Yes Vladimir kill himself when he use it as a waveclear tool * Yes that's easy to bait Vlad with creeps to block it * Yes it can be improved as a clean-wave tool But : * the DPS is very good : You can launch a full charged Q every 3 sec with 50% CDR (and not 4,5) * the hard slow with very little duration have a good impact on teamfights * the range is hard to see but she is strong enough ------- R : The ultimate look bad for 1vs1 and very cool in teamfights. It also work with Zhonia stance, that's awesome. ------- What i think Vlad will need in future ? Q : 160 + 0,45 => 220 + 0,5AP ratio (for a maximum DPS stronger since it's really difficult to use, the spell will still be weaker than live in most situations BUT will be USABLE as an harass and damaging tool). That's a Darius-like change who will be necessary to make him viable again. He is not satisfying to use. W : Why nerf it ? o_O E : The spell will now heal Vlad for 0,25% > 1% (at full charge) max HP for every unit he kill with Tides of Blood. Nerf HP ratio, buff AP ratio Improve his clean potential (why a one-shotted creep can block more than one tides ?) R : I don't know what can be good for this one. But the amplification is a bit weird, i prefer stronger damage and no boosts at all or something like ------- It's a lot of things but Vlad will need it for sure. He is even worst than live for the moment (45% winrate plat+). Also ... the change on the passive encourage again to take more health than AP, i don't really like that. the Q empowered heal based on missing health too. Let this to AD juggernauts as Darius or Illaoi.
> The spell will now heal Vlad for 0,25% > 1% (at full charge) max HP for every unit he kill with I hadn't considered this, but it's actually a really good idea in my opinion. Thematically, it makes sense (Tides move in two directions!), and it also offsets the somewhat ridiculous cost of clearing waves later in the game, while not being heavy handed in lane. The healing from Q right now alone is simply not high or consistent enough right now.
: The bit about dealing damage to nearby minions seems like a good change, The max projectile block seems unintuitive if it works the way I think it will. If I E With 3 minions to my left, and 2 champions one standing in front of the other to my right. If the minions absorb 5 projectiles on the right, will the rest on the left all become pass-through and hit both champions? or stop on the first champion hit as usual?
My understanding is that a single minion can only absorb up to a maximum of 5 projectiles (Think like Ashe Volley, where in that case if you were point blank you could eat most of the arrows but take no additional damage), so if you hit a melee minion point blank, It could eat a maximum of 5 of the "projectiles" that make up the blood ring, down from 7. What you're saying is that if minions as a whole eat 5 of the 20 total projectiles (I've counted), would the rest pass through any other minions to hit champions behind them, right?* *(Attempting to clarify the opinion of the parent comment, this is not how I understand the ability :P)
: HOLY you're the best. Thanks so much! This might require some black magic to get working as expected, but I'll do what I can.
Not a problem! I enjoy doing stuff like this when I can. If ~~sacrifices~~ materials are needed I may be able to scrounge something up! ---- After a little brain scratching: * For multiple "projectiles" being absorbed by a single unit, possibly have units that are hit by multiple bolts take reduced damage for every one after the first, that way they're not wasted. * In addition to that, if it kills the unit it encounters, perhaps have it continue on, maybe with reduced damage (as it's velocity was reduced). Later in the game it would resolve the grievance people have about not being able to clear waves easily later in the game. I dunno though, the ability starts becoming complicated with these two things, and it's likely better to keep things as simple as possible, but I thought I'd share so that you at least had the option to consider it. Best of luck with your work! We look forward to what you guys decide! (No pressure) (By the way, the communication you guys have put into this project is fantastic, I know that I'm not the only one that's noticed, but you guys have really raised the bar on how this is done!)
: Vlad E doesn't hit every single target
Did some testing for Stashu over on the other thread, but the way that E works right now is a little vague. Basically, it acts like an AoE Ashe Volley, so if it hits a unit while traveling in a certain direction, it only deals damage to that unit, nothing behind it. Additionally, one unit can absorb more than one "projectile"(there's actually 20 of them total, I've counted), while not taking any further damage. "On release or after 1.5 seconds, Vladimir unleashes a wave of blood, expanding in all directions from his current location and dealing (DAMAGE) damage to enemies it comes into contact with. The wave breaks around enemies struck as the wave travels to it's maximum range, sparing those behind the first from this spell's effects."
: Thanks for the detailed breakdown! Here's some responses: * Heal over time vs instant: Soraka's self-heal is meant to give her long-term sustain, but is not intended to be a clutch, death-defying moment (like her W/R are meant to be for allies). Vladimir's Q, especially with the new direction we've taken Crimson Q, *IS* intended to be a fight turning, death defying moment, and the tension is focused around 'can he get to mega Q in time!?' instead of 'will the regeneration be enough?!' like with Volibear or Mundo, so that's why it's instant! :D * Tides of blood non-passthrough element not mentioned in tooltip: Really struggling to explain this without adding 3 more lines of text to the tooltip. Working with wordsmiths to figure that one out, hope to get something in soon. * Visuals: Yeah, the visuals and animations on E are so badass. I'll pass that along! * Minion hit boxes: I know there's some whackiness here but I'm having trouble understanding exactly in what ways. I'd die for a screen shot with some mark-ups on it explaining how it breaks expectations, but barring that I'll be playing around with missile width and such. * damage amp: I'm mostly with you, but: the amp crucially allows Vladimir's ult to be a threatening moment without back-loading all of his R's effectiveness into the pop while also allowing him to contribute to his team's success even if he's behind. It's not sexy, but it's functional, and replacing it with something that fills the same role in an appreciable way without drastically changing the ability has proven challenging. I do, however, think it's a great place to focus on for any work on Vladimir in the future ( that, and his passive :/ ) I know not all of that is going to be 100% satisfying to hear, but I hope that at least explains how we ended up where we did!
Got the screenshots! [Projectile Count (20 Total)](http://i.imgur.com/uClrw5o.jpg) [Point Blank (1)](http://i.imgur.com/HTAI4o9.jpg) [Point Blank (2)](http://i.imgur.com/sLQ6qC6.jpg) Likely working as intended, due it it's similarity to Ashe's Volley, but it's a major source of frustration, being too close to a minion when you cast this and it resulting in ~33% of the AoE being nullified is really annoying. [Examples](http://i.imgur.com/fPrn0UI.jpg) [of frustrating](http://i.imgur.com/C8M3X6q.jpg) [or wierd](http://i.imgur.com/8GfpiN7.jpg) [happenings](http://i.imgur.com/Bk78WnD.jpg) I hope these were helpful (Blood Lord Skin seemed to have the best visuals to identify this stuff when I was looking)
: Thanks for the detailed breakdown! Here's some responses: * Heal over time vs instant: Soraka's self-heal is meant to give her long-term sustain, but is not intended to be a clutch, death-defying moment (like her W/R are meant to be for allies). Vladimir's Q, especially with the new direction we've taken Crimson Q, *IS* intended to be a fight turning, death defying moment, and the tension is focused around 'can he get to mega Q in time!?' instead of 'will the regeneration be enough?!' like with Volibear or Mundo, so that's why it's instant! :D * Tides of blood non-passthrough element not mentioned in tooltip: Really struggling to explain this without adding 3 more lines of text to the tooltip. Working with wordsmiths to figure that one out, hope to get something in soon. * Visuals: Yeah, the visuals and animations on E are so badass. I'll pass that along! * Minion hit boxes: I know there's some whackiness here but I'm having trouble understanding exactly in what ways. I'd die for a screen shot with some mark-ups on it explaining how it breaks expectations, but barring that I'll be playing around with missile width and such. * damage amp: I'm mostly with you, but: the amp crucially allows Vladimir's ult to be a threatening moment without back-loading all of his R's effectiveness into the pop while also allowing him to contribute to his team's success even if he's behind. It's not sexy, but it's functional, and replacing it with something that fills the same role in an appreciable way without drastically changing the ability has proven challenging. I do, however, think it's a great place to focus on for any work on Vladimir in the future ( that, and his passive :/ ) I know not all of that is going to be 100% satisfying to hear, but I hope that at least explains how we ended up where we did!
Thanks for the reply! * I imagined it was something along these lines, makes sense to me! * I was thinking that might be a problem when I considered it (it's weird to vocalize concisely). I'm no wordsmith, but I'd imagine something like this would sufficiently convey the idea. (Though, you're still adding quite a bit of text >.<) **"On release or after 1.5 seconds, Vladimir unleashes a wave of blood, expanding in all directions from his current location and dealing (DAMAGE) damage to enemies it comes into contact with. The wave breaks around enemies struck as the wave travels to it's maximum range, sparing those behind the first from this spell's effects."** * I've noticed this is easiest to see on the Soulstealer skin (the "projectiles" that make up the ability seem to be highlighted), and I'll see what I can do about getting you some screens of it (and highlighting it for you). The easiest way to explain it is likening it to Ashe's Volley: A single unit seems to be eating up a few too many "projectiles" (imagine it like 50 ashe arrows being shot in a ring), specifically when up close it seems to be a problem. * I understand the retention of the damage amp here, there's only so much time in the day :P. I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with in the future then. (I was a little disappointed when I saw that the same boring [but useful] passive was there, but I suspect it rolls into the same issue as the damage amp: It's not the best thing, but right now it works, and there's a lot that needs to be done, so in the future maybe it will get attention, but right now it is satisfactory.) I may not be 100% happy with everything, but I understand you guys don't leave stuff like this intentionally, you love the game just as much as we do, so I imagine you guys aren't completely satisfied either, but there's always more stuff to do than what you have time for, so things need to be cut for the greater whole. I'll see what I can do about getting you those screenshots soon!
: must have started happening, i just got out of a game and it was working. I played brand
Rioter Comments
: MYMU - Vladimir Discussion
Really enjoying the new Vladimir, though I do have some comments that I feel should be voiced. * The Q projectile speed increase is welcome, I hated having cast Transfusion but not actually getting the healing in time for it to save me when playing Vladimir. * As annoying as the lack of significant healing is for un-empowered casts, I understand why it works that way, so I'll save my breath on it. * [Design Question: Did you consider making his heal similar to Soraka's health return on Starcall, in that it heals her over time, and if so, what made you guys decide on having it be instant? My understanding was that the heal over time effect was more fair to opponents fighting Soraka, could that not be applied to Vladimir as well to justify a little higher healing on basic casts (while possibly retaining instant healing on empowered casts)? Thanks in advance if you answer!] * Regarding Tides of Blood (E), I feel it should be mentioned that nowhere in the tooltip does it state that the nova only damages the first units it strikes in every direction (Like Ashe Volley), and it really should, as that's important information, but I'm not really certain how it would be worded. I know that it's been a major confusion point for a lot of folks ("It's broken"), and would clear things up quite a bit if that was added. * The Tides of Blood animation is extremely satisfying by the way, whoever did that needs a serious pat on the back. * I did notice when playing him that the damage radius on Tides of Blood (E) was a little shorter than the visual leads you to believe, so it would be nice to have that looked at. * Final note regarding Tides of Blood (E), when using it to clear minion waves it seems that some minions that should get hit by it, don't. I suspect this has something to do with hitboxes (If you're trying to hit a minion that is set back behind another, but offset to either side relative to you, it doesn't appear to hit when you think that it would, I think that the first minion's hit box absorbs a bit too much of the circle. Apologies if that was vague.) * Lastly, with the damage amp on his ult being reduced yet again, I echo the opinions of a few others, I'd rather just see the damage amp go all together and place that power elsewhere, as it's so difficult to notice that it may as well not be there.
: MYMU - Malzahar Discussion
After playing against Malzahar a bit and watching some gameplay recordings, here are my thoughts: (Note that I've not actually played it, but I do play Malzahar on live on occasion) --- **Passive - Void Shift** * Really cool and unique, theres not much that I can say about it that's not already expressed elsewhere, The cooldown in the early game seems too high while in the late game it feels too low, but otherwise its a good middle finger to CC initiation, and thematically it fits very well. I found myself looking to poke Malzahar with a basic attack or skillshot to get rid of his shield before fighting, which I think was the intention. **Q - Call of the Void** * Without playing I can't say much about it, other than the damage is really lackluster now, the silence feels fair, though the hitbox feels larger than the animation but it's alright because the silence isn't as long as it used to be. **W - Void Swarm** * I love the goal of this ability, though I think it needs a little work. I'll detail this further below, but right this second I'm going to go through the rest of the abilities. **E - Malefic Visions** Minions seem to be more resilient to being killed by this now (due to lowered damage), resulting in a weaker lane for Malzahar. The refresh is nice, though I didn't notice it really when playing against him. There are some things I'd like to discuss about this ability as well as Void Swarm, but again I'll defer for a moment. **R - Nether Grasp** * I like that the puddle was combined with this, as it was a staple combo that is impossible to mess up now :P The damage seems to be on the low side as others have mentioned, but often times I never really used it for the damage to begin with, I used it to keep my target still for my voidlings to go ham. --- Alright, with those out of the way, I can get into my gripes/suggestions: * As of right now, I feel that W simply spawns too many Voidlings with a single cast (Don't burn me! I'm not finished yet!). Once you get upwards of 3 voidlings, it's extremely difficult to tell exactly how many you're dealing with as the person playing against Malz, and because they seem to run over one another it's difficult to tell how deep of a hole you're in at any given moment.** If nothing else changes, PLEASE make them separate a bit as they travel so you can see how many are coming at you.** Having said that, I actually like the idea of 6+ voidlings out at once, it's really cool, but right now it seems non-interactive, and they don't last very long, with no opportunity to really affect that in any way. Considering that: 1. I would like to see each casting of Void Swarm (W) to spawn a maximum of 3 (ish) Voidlings. (I'd like to see the voidling's do a little shudder and then split on the spot instead of having them spawn from Malzahar's current location, but that's not really important) 2. Each time Malefic Visions (E) jumps to a new target, the remaining cooldown of Void Swarm is reduced by a set amount. You'd need to tweak the cooldown a bit to dial in on the right numbers, obviously, but it would incentivize really focusing on getting Malefic Visions (E) to jump around. This also indirectly nerfs Jungle Malz and buffs Lane Malz due to the quantity of creatures available to jump to. **(This also retains the spirit of the "spam spells for Voidlings" thing that Malz had before in a way.)** 3. Each time a Voidling hits a target afflicted by Malefic Visions, they last a little longer. This will allow Jungle Malz players to keep their Voidlings around for awhile longer than his lane counterpart by juggling aggro with his minions. **(Lane Malzahar's minions would actually last longer in theory, but I'd imagine that his lane opponent would want to kill them as they're pretty squishy to stop his push, as Malz needs them to help him make (E) jump around, making an interesting game where Malz is trying to defend his Voidlings and his opponent is trying to get rid of them to stop the push. Unchecked this would make Malzahar a fantastic pusher, which isn't a bad thing as he kinda lost his pushing power a bit right now)** 4. Each Voidling increases the attack speed of it's nearby brethren by 50% (but does not increase it's own attack speed) this has the same +100% attack speed effect at 3 voidlings, but also rewards Malzahar for managing to pull off subsequent castings of Void Swarm (W). With those changes I think that Malzahar would be vastly more fun to play as and against (!), many other changes are simply number tweaks, and you guys are the experts on that, so I feel no need to chime in there :P
: @Riot Stephiroth URF Death Timers
I can support this, I hate nothing more than being instantly nuked for a 40 sec death timer only to die again (Thanks Fizz) and make some cookies in the meantime.
: > [{quoted}](name=Telosa,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Zoa5Uve6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-10T18:32:00.003+0000) > > You weren't here for the last two URFs, were you? Eve (along with any champion with a spammable, low cooldown ability) has always been broken in URF. It's just how the game mode works. So Karthus is broken? Please tell.
Karthus has always been a special case, people would think he is strong, but his cast time on his Q sucks Donkey, so he is pretty immobile, and his Ult doesn't work out too well due to the constant amount of shields and heals. EDIT: And his new Wall sucks pretty bad as well.
: I think it might be getting downvoted since it's not really feedback on Jhin, just an opinion on how to play him, and most things that don't pertain to feedback/bugs don't belong on PBE and therefore are downvoted
That makes sense I suppose.
: Jhin [Fury vs. Sorcery]
I'd say that Fury would be more beneficial over the course of the game because even though you're not using basic attacks as much as other ADC's, the bonus AD will still be more useful on a more consistent basis than Sorcery's bonus damage will, and it's in effect regardless of your mana pool. I don't know why people are down-voting the thread, it's a really good question IMO.
: I, too, like this post! I'll admit I didn't read through all of it and started skimming on item choices, but it looks well put together! What are your thoughts on Wits End? I know the passive doesn't help him as much anymore since he's physical damage now, but the stats are nice and it felt decent when I tried it in game.
Wit's End - Grants Attack Speed (which is more of a luxury stat for Shen), Magic Resist, and a MR shread/steal with on-hit magic damage. I wouldn't say that it's a bad item to pick up, but it's heavily situational in my opinion. If you're in a game that meets the following criteria: * 2-4 of your teammates are mostly magic damage based * Most of your enemies are AP based in damage * Extended fights with other tanky individuals are a likelihood You're a go to grab it. Because only your Q scales off of the MR shred it provides, you will be picking it up more for the sake of your allies than yourself. Additionally, you need to be fairly safe from enemy burst to pick it up, as this is more of a sustained fight item due to it's lack of health and fluctuating MR value. It does fit somewhat well with Shen's play style, as he needs to be in the fight constantly hitting auto attacks to restore energy with the Q-empowered Aa's, so it does its job better on him than it does on others. If it doesn't meet one of those criteria points it's likely better to simply grab Blade of the Ruined King, as the passive on that is better for taking out beefier dudes, and the active adds yet another tool to your toolbox, so to speak, though BotRK suffers many of the same issues that Wit's End does. Blade also has the added benefit of providing AD and Life Steal, which could mean the difference between life and death in some situations, and Wit's simply doesn't provide that. This being said, your last two items will almost always be defensive/utility items instead of more damage in my experience, as you simply need to survive longer as Shen in the later stages of the game because you're more often than naught waiting for CD's. Overall Wit's End is a decent item on Shen still, but in most situations BotRK just does the same job better, which is a shame, because Wit's is a cool item. Ninja Edit: added Wit's End to the item table, I'll admit that I forgot about it when listing situational items.
: Firstly, nice post! I'm also glad someone else likes {{item:3512}} on Shen; I really love point runner too.
I'm actually kicking myself a bit for not thinking of it sooner than I did, that item just fits so well with him a split pusher. Glad you liked the post!
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Urgots Nipple

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