: Runes Reforged PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread
I apologise for the high amount of feedback, but I'm a fairly high elo Elise, Nidalee and Reksai main (almost Master in S5, didn't play in S6 and only played on smurfs this season but got them all to D5 for the end of season rewards) and I would say this rune system for the most part is pretty well designed but it has a lot of issues for me. Positives: * Most of the runes seem to incentivise roaming and helping your team. * I like how you can progress certain runes even if it's a fairly non-action game. * It rewards teams for playing the game properly which pushes the game into a more snowbally direction which is how the game should be. * It's fun to play with different builds, particularly ADC seemed to have the most options. Negatives: Certain tiers just feel bad. Domination appears to be a more jungle/early and mid game/burst focused tree, yet for your first minor choice you get two warding options which feel like more of a supporting tree, so immediately these options are basically irrelevant and then the third option is scaling damage, which would fit something like the Sorcery or Precision tree more. So it just becomes "I'll get the eyeball one, I guess". Which just feels bad. (The second minor tier is fairly well designed however). Similarly to the first minor tier, in the final minor tier of Domination, there is only one real option. There's a spell vamp one, which yet again is clashing with the entire point of the tree, the point of this tree is to roam/burst people, not sustain. Active item CDR, this one is also bizarre. Not only is this totally useless in the early game, but it again seems like it's more of a support/utility focused rune so it's totally bizarre that it's in the bursting/roaming tree and not a part of Inspire or Sorcery. And then the final option for this tier, is out of combat movement speed which the only one you will ever actually want. Most champs I played fit into the system quite well despite its flaws, however Elise and Nidalee really do feel horrible here. For Elise and Nidalee the old Runes/Masteries system is superior in every way, especially Runes. The standard rune page for Elise and Nidalee was attack speed marks, armor or HP scaling yellows, CDR blues and AP quints. I see that on PBE they have given machete attack speed while in combat with monsters to compensate, but the issue is that Elise and Nidalee didn't just use this attack speed for clearing, it was for ganks as well to apply red buff from range and wait until they have the highest chance of making their skillshot hit, it was for clearing waves, clearing wards, and Elise particularly uses attack speed the entire game because a lot of her damage comes from spider auto attacks. Another big issue is that Nidalee buys the Talisman jungle item because of her pounce AoE, so she'll have both no attack speed in ganks or her clearing, and nor will she have the CDR to compensate the nerfs she received a while ago either and I believe the amount of Lv1 AP you get with the new runes is less too. Not to mention how they benefited from the old mastery giving hybrid stats which they could both benefit from. It then feels like you are forced to go Domination + Precision just for the access to in combat attack speed, but even then the amount you get is less than if you were just using old runes, and not only that but you miss out on Celerity and Waterwalking from the Sorcery tree which every other jungler is going to be taking because either a) They don't need in combat attack speed (Lee Sin, Kha, Rengar) or b) They can actually go Precision without it being troll (Reksai, Xin Zhao, Shyvana, Twitch, Ezreal). It also got worse when Coup de Grace was changed because it's change doesn't benefit junglers at all, and all of this on top of the fact that there is also a magic shield rune and they are both going to feel absolutely horrible to play.
: New HUD Feedback
On the post it was mentioned that the idea was to give the player all 'map awareness' information centered in one spot around the minimap, and it even included examples of 'Is dragon up?' and even mentioned that the old HUD was sloppy because there was information on different sides of the screen and 'even tab screen' yet this is still the case with dragon/baron timers on the new HUD. Is this going to be changed?
: Well, I guess you were too used to the big spear hitbox, actually the smaller hitbox does give you the new possibility of hitting your target behind the minions. Only if you can make that aim......the speed is fine, dodging or hitting it is still possible. BTW, it sounded like you don't really know how to make use of the old traps and how advantageous it is when you use them properly. The new design actually buffed Nidalee in all aspects and opened up more flexibility. But since you are used to AP only build, it's not surprising to see you doubting this new design.
Of course I knew how to take advantage of the old traps and how strong they were. They always had a lot of power in them, you could place them in the enemy jungle to show the enemy jungler for quite a long time, you shred tank armor and MR and you could use them to push the wave a little bit, but my point is that despite the skill always having that power it never felt satisfying to use *outside* of its raw power. You just sort of put them down any time it was off cooldown in a bush or a likely enemy path because you can. Cait trap however, when you put a Cait trap down and someone steps in it, it's satisfying because you can really take advantage of it. Regarding the spear change, it is true that I didn't even try to hit it through minions because I wasn't used to the ability to do so, however even if that may potentially increase her laning, it's a pretty huge nerf for the rest of the game because hitting the spears will be a lot more difficult now. Like I said on my post, that was my experience with the full AP Nidalee, I haven't tried bruiser Nidalee nor have I ever played it even on live.
: Nidalee Gameplay Update Feedback/Bugs Thread!
As a Season 3 AP Nidalee mid main, after playing the new Nidalee in a custom, I was quite disappointed to be honest. I understand the live Nidalee is toxic design, and I think the concept of the new Nidalee sounds cool, but I think the actual product is just not very good. The reason to pick Nidalee on live is long range nuke, safety, siege, poke and sustain and she also had a few other things that made her great, but what exactly is the reason to pick the new Nidalee? Her kit seems extremely high risk low reward. **(NOTE: This is my experience going AP, I haven't played bruiser or ever played bruiser Nidalee before so I cannot comment on that.)** Her concept 'feels' nicer, but it isn't worth it if you lose the game for it. To get the hunt started you need to hit them with an ability, spear is hard to hit (especially with the hit box nerf) and the trap can't be used in an 'active' situation either so already it's awkward here and then when you do get on the hunt, either two things can happen (and this is one of the problems with Rengar): 1) You kill the target. 2) You don't. This is the same issue that Rengar has, but the difference is that Nidalee cannot instantly 100-0 someone with cougar invisibly from 600~725 range away. It seems with the rework that Nidalee is trying to be moved towards most of her damage through with cougar form, but this will not work if she's still going to be designed around a full AP build. A melee squishy AP champ that doesn't have insane burst or blinks/dodging is always going to be bad. Which means from here either 1) Nidalee becomes an AP assassin (which I think would be extremely toxic for the game) 2) Nidalee is forced to become an AD bruiser, which despite not being the same Nidalee that me and other AP Nidalee players loved to play, I think is the more viable path here with the current kit. If bruiser is the way you decide to go with her, I think her AP scalings should be scrapped and she should be given some AD scalings instead. Aside from the issues of incompatibility with being AP, another thing that bothered me was that trying to pounce onto a hunted target from the max range was kind of frustrating, to bring up Rengar once again, you right click your target once and then once you get to the max range you'll leap to them, but with new Nidalee you can pounce too early and screw it up, so it would be nice if there was a way to 'lock on' to a target where if you put your mouse on a target and press pounce, Nidalee will pounce onto them if/once you get in range of it. The new spear is very frustrating to attempt to use, if the hitbox is going to be this small I think the speed of the projectile should go up. I also feel that if you were going to go with a 'hunting' theme, it would have been a more logical idea and also more fun to play, to make the traps have a bit of CC so that you feel like you've 'caught' something. The Nidalee traps were never satisfying to use before, they just used to reveal for an obsurd amount of time and the armor/mr shred was a huge amount of power. When the traps still don't have CC and don't shred armor/mr they just don't feel nice to use at all. Obviously this is just my opinion but based on this kit I think Nidalee should be changed from AP to AD Bruiser in the same way that Master Yi was changed from AP to AD in his rework. I hope this is helpful feedback


Level 31 (PBE)
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