: All Random URF is now enabled for testing!
It feels like it's been over a year since we've seen actual URF. The last URF we had was ARURF and I didn't get a single Skarner game in, tons of Draven and Janna though, champions I didn't even own. Not only do I not get to play the champion I want to play in URF though but I still have to face all the same garbage, it's less frequent sure, but it's so much worse, Give me Skarner and yea Urgot might still be a problem, Xin Zhao as well but the rest aren't a problem because I'm something I am comfortable playing, I would rather play a mediocre champ vs the best champs every game then be forced to play something shitty like Janna vs champions that are better even once (Which btw is was way more than once) We haven't even gotten to try URF with the new 10 ban system, that's something to look forward to, ASSUMING IT EVER COMES! I actually fear we may never get true URF again. And it's so sad because after the removal of Energize and all of his damage, attack speed and movement speed URF is the only way Skarner feels fun. When real URF comes back I will have a rune page specifically for Skarner URF 2 MS quints, 1 armor, 9 HP per lvl seals, 9 MR glyphs, 6 armor marks, 3 AS marks and I will not fucking sleep because I know that when it's gone, it's gone and it won't be back until my (so far not conceived) children are old enough to enjoy it. The crystal scar is weeping {{champion:72}} I miss my kind.
Rioter Comments
: AD users have enough MR items. Yes, they don't all have spell shields, but they already have Maw, Edge of Night, and Merc treads. AD users are not the problem for Banshee's, its more of how good the passive is on a squishy combined with its amazing stats. The GA change is experimental, but what they are trying to do is make it worse on tanks. It does make the fighters a little less tanky, but they still get what they really buy it for, the passive, which like you said in a previous post makes enemies not try to focus you. I don't think it will be bad, but we will have to see first.
Except it's not worth buying on a Fighter, before you could justify buying it because it's stat combination was good, so even though the item isn't exactly gold efficient you get the two stats you want most when you want them in 1 item. That makes it a decent item. Now think to yourself this, how many champions in how many scenarios are going to think "The two stats I want most are AD and Armor" It's just Adcs and Assassins. You'll see Zed buy the new GA, all the time, SUPER EARLY TO. You'll see Adcs buy this item as a 4th or 5th item. However Fighters don't benefit from this item, most Fighters get the damage they need from other more effective damage items (Trinity Force+Steraks, T-Hydra+HP, BotRK) GA doesn't make a big enough difference to a Fighter for them to value the AD, the only Fighters I can imagine ever buying this item are the ones that traditionally go 5 AD items, something like Riven or Fiora. And when that becomes meta those champions will see nerfs because of how early they buy it and how safe it allows them to be. When Riot later realizes how bad this GA change is, it will be nerfed making it a terrible item, but those who used it well such as Riven and Fiora will remain in the dumps (Well probably not Fiora because it's hard to nerf her enough to make her suck, but Riven for sure, absolute trash after the nerfs she'll undoubtedly get) This is not a good change, it hurts Fighters a lot, and benefits, Assassins, Adcs and snow bally Fighters that build more like an Assassin.
: Just want to point out the the Udyr changes are in no way a nerf, with around ~300 AD late game his new tiger stance has ~500 damage DoT over 2 seconds which after 3 autos is turned into a burst of damage and reapplied, also all of his abilities cost less mana late game than they did before.
Okay first off if you need 300 AD on UDYR to make that not a nerf, it's a nerf, most Udyr build 2 items that give AD, Trinity Force and Steraks.Those combined will not get you above 300 AD, so you're either sacrificing tankiness which is very much not ideal, or you're just doing less damage. However I'm less focused on that in general, the real nerf, the big one that fucks over Udyr super hard, making him worse than Skarner is the W changes, which now give Udyr a shitty mastery that even Udyr doesn't take and he loses his lifesteal. THAT IS SO FUCKING BIG. The life steal was way better than his new W and it's a senseless and harsh nerf.
Rioter Comments
: Just want to point out the the Udyr changes are in no way a nerf, with around ~300 AD late game his new tiger stance has ~500 damage DoT over 2 seconds which after 3 autos is turned into a burst of damage and reapplied, also all of his abilities cost less mana late game than they did before.
All games that have Udyr in them have an early game Udyr, not all Udyr games have a late game Udyr. It doesn't matter if things get better late when they are so harshly nerfed early, but for the record the Turtle stance is so much less healing late that is basically negates any argument for this being a late game buff. 630g worth of rare stats thrown out the window for a shitty version of one of the least used keystones in the game. Going back to what you said though, 300 AD is way more than an Udyr would usually get currently having only Trinity Force and Steraks with AD leaves you below 200. It's unreasonable to expect Udyr to build more than this because as an immobile Fighter he needs durability way more. A full AD build might do a lot of damage to people it hits but no decent player is getting hit by that.
: I know of no champ with dots thats even remotly strong right know apart from Rumble. Any buff gonna be in the works for Swain or Teemo if adaptive helmet goes through? because that item shuts them down hard.
Brand kills most champs without ultimate.
: > Repertoir, about the guardian angel changes, are we going to see a AP version of that? We actually tested an AP version of the item as well (literally had an item named AD GA in the shop for testing at the same time as AP GA) because my gut told me that was fair as well. However, after a few weeks of testing, people almost always preferred to just have Zhonya's, and fighting against champions that had both AP GA and Zhonya's wasn't particularly fun (and it was very possible), and so I came to the conclusion it's not something that AP champions need, despite how appealing it sounds. > Stoneplate looks cheap enough for support tanks to get. I'm sure someone like Leona would love it. It would be cool if some support tanks could pick it up in games where they had the money to afford it. > The Helm looks good, but I think it might be a little too strong against spell spammers. This is pretty much what the item is supposed to be good for. Might to _too_ strong against them, as you've suggested, but it's also possible it's instead too strong against non spammers. > I don't think you buffed cinderhulk enough. Needs something else. Very possible. Will definitely be wanting to see how Cinderhulk users are performing upon release (especially relative to their pre-patch performance and their lane tank counterparts), if nothing else.
You do realize these GA changes kill the build used for most Fighters right? Trinity Force, Steraks, Guardian Angel. The Trinity Force is because of the champ you pick, the Steraks makes it's damage stronger while giving you some durability so you're not completely useless in even small fights. then the GA gives you reasonable tankiness so you can actually function outside of 1v1. The Guardian Angel and Steraks passives go well together discouraging enemy champions from focusing you down instantly which is a serious problem for these low damage champions. We have enough AD/MR items, Guardian Angel should stay as a purely defensive option. All of these changes fuck Fighters over a lot and Fighters are currently the worst class as a whole, individually you have some very strong Fighters that are way overdue to nerfs but a Fighter is not a tank, they don't bring as much to team fights and when you think about how bad some Fighters are against others it's disgusting, every time you nerf the class a whole you might make Garen slightly less strong, Pantheon might effected to, but you also nerf the weaker Fighters to. It's really annoying as a Skarner main and Ex-Shyvana main to be at the bottom of the list in terms of overall power and still have this class as a whole get nerfed. Consider a good Trinity Force Fighter like Vi and then Skarner and it's ridiculous how much worse this change is for the weaker of the Fighters. It takes way too long to get tanky as a Fighter because there are two types of damage to consider + YOUR OWN DAMAGE ITEM which is the most expensive item in the game and then HP pool is still a big issue because no champion truly has a different HP pool, it's pretty awful until at least 3000. The current itemization allows for reasonable power spike at 3 items, you're about to make it 4 by taking away the only reason Armor/MR item for Fighters. Meanwhile Adcs are just getting way stronger against Fighters with this because a Fighter won't be able to take them out but will take more damage from people who choose to opt into this passive. It's such an awful change, please don't go through with this. If the item is overpowered increase the price or chip off a small amount of stats (Preferably armor) but it's not an unreasonable item, I never feel like it's a big deal when others build it against me and I play all roles but support.
: Midseason Durability Feedback
These item changes are awful. They just take away the possibility of building items on certain champions. Like Banshee's Veil, no longer will AD champs be able to get it to block a brand W, or Malphite/Zed ult, so they basically just lose for going near these champions meaning they can't ever kill them. Guardian Angel is a big one, a build I use very often is Trinity Force, Steraks, Guardian Angel, the items have a nice synergy with each other, taking away the MR ruins the build which is best on so many champions. Skarner, Jax, Irelia, Vi, Udyr (Of whom already is getting big nerfs) and so many more. I mean this update makes squishies slightly tankier, and supportive tanks might be okay since they provide more utility but this change is just a big fuck off to Fighters. I don't see +40 MR being added to any of the champions I listed, not even any compensation really. I also don't see any Banshees replacement for AD/tank champions. We can probably live with the Banshee's change since there is so many AD/MR items and one of them has a simular effect but the GA change is beyond garbage, it feels like CEO of Riot has been on an Adc playing spree and is just trying to get an edge by making the item more beneficial to him. Even the new item that doubles your hp, since it kills your damage it means any tank using it becomes unthreatening and gets ignored, but if you're an Adc out of position, it's like another type of GA yea you can't do damage for 4 seconds but you gain so much more out of it because your value is much higher to the enemy.
Rioter Comments
: Okay so I've been messing around in custom games and here is my initial thoughts about this. Taliyahs Q ruins the ground for way too long, I can understand what you are going for her, but lets say you were clearing jungle camps (She's not a very good jungler, but still) by time you full clear and go back to the first, the areas you used Q are still useless, this is a fairly hard to use ability, and it's so restricted, I just think this bad, why put all this effort into this when you can just play Malzahar and summon 4 Voidlings on a Target and the point and click watch them melt. Or play Brand and Pentakill clustered enemies with your damage alone. Taliyahs ultimate does no damage, and doesn't seem to displace, although I've yet to use it on a champion, it doesn't displace minions, however it does create terrain, this is a bad thing because Taliyah has no mobility to travel over the terrain, meaning she has a high risk of screwing herself pretty badly, she's very squishy so flanking with this could just lead to her death and splitting an enemy could just allow more mobile Adcs like Lucian to destroy her since he can choose which side of the wall he wants to be on at any time. Her E is slow but it's okay and her W is okay, these abilities don't have flaws on the level of Q or R but they don't seem that great either, add in the fact that her passive has no combat use and it all adds up to this champion seeming unreasonably under powered. I also haven't looked at the numbers of her base stats but she feels squishier than most mages, maybe I'm wrong about this one but I definitely feel like this champion should be at the very least equally durable to the average mage, but definitely not squishier.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Freljord Taliyah!
Okay so I've been messing around in custom games and here is my initial thoughts about this. Taliyahs Q ruins the ground for way too long, I can understand what you are going for her, but lets say you were clearing jungle camps (She's not a very good jungler, but still) by time you full clear and go back to the first, the areas you used Q are still useless, this is a fairly hard to use ability, and it's so restricted, I just think this bad, why put all this effort into this when you can just play Malzahar and summon 4 Voidlings on a Target and the point and click watch them melt. Or play Brand and Pentakill clustered enemies with your damage alone. Taliyahs ultimate does no damage, and doesn't seem to displace, although I've yet to use it on a champion, it doesn't displace minions, however it does create terrain, this is a bad thing because Taliyah has no mobility to travel over the terrain, meaning she has a high risk of screwing herself pretty badly, she's very squishy so flanking with this could just lead to her death and splitting an enemy could just allow more mobile Adcs like Lucian to destroy her since he can choose which side of the wall he wants to be on at any time. Her E is slow but it's okay and her W is okay, these abilities don't have flaws on the level of Q or R but they don't seem that great either, add in the fact that her passive has no combat use and it all adds up to this champion seeming unreasonably under powered. I also haven't looked at the numbers of her base stats but she feels squishier than most mages, maybe I'm wrong about this one but I definitely feel like this champion should be at the very least equally durable to the average mage, but definitely not squishier.
: Snowdown Preview
So excited for Syndra to finally have shoes, but not really into this skin. Any chance her default skin will ever get some shoes? Would look really like with some black high heel boots.
: I got a bone to pick with these new Masteries
It's good for if you want a little of both, like you want 1 point in lifesteal but rest in AD. or something, I personally would never do it but I can see some rare times where it'd be beneficial. The real issue is the amount of bad masteries, there is like 5 that are just bad.
: Trinity Force
CDR is so much more valuable than AP, the big issue is the lowered movement/attack speed, but it's still worthwhile so it'll live on.
: Is there a reason why Death Timers are so unbelievably high?
I never thought there was an issue with the death timers before. ARAM maybe, but SR was fine.
: [Balance suggestion] Why does Mercurial Scimitar have lifesteal?
Magic Resist swords with lifesteal is a bit much but I don't think it should be nerfed outside that, some champions rely on life steal and 5% vs monsters is shit, even machete alone is 8%.
: Challenger players ARE knowledgable ? its just us challenged players who cant understand them I thought that was common sense
No, some challenger players are knowledgeable, but consider this, http://puu.sh/l4fT1/f8389bfccf.jpg these are challenger builds for a seemingly simple champion, who should build the same almost every game, with small differences. Why the big changes? They can't all be right about which build is best. Currently the results aren't as good as I expected however the idea remains the same, challenger opinions differ. If challenger players knew what they were talking about, you would find they all agree on things. I find most challenger players have one specific strength and a lot of aggression, they also usually have one big weakness (good example: Nightblue3 builds) At least from what I've seen in streams, you find a lot of morons up there. Normally I get challenger players arguing with me trying to say they know what they are saying cause they are challenger. This person though, really really seems to know their stuff.
: What's the reasoning behind leaving champions like Lux out of the mana stat buffing?
No kidding, especially that E mana cost of 130, I suspect Riot plans to lower that and so they decided against doing the Lux mana buffs for now. I really hope this is the case.
: The state of bruisers/tanks itemization
Wow you really know your shit, I half expected myself to disagree with this as "Another case of a challenger player thinking that means he's knowledgeable" I agree with everything you've said greatly except for Steraks, the base AD increases your Trinity Force damage, I build Trinity Force, Steraks, GA on champions like Skarner and Vi and it feels really good, I think Steraks is in an okay spot, and while the AD isn't that great, it has a unique and wonderful purpose. Trinity Force Fighters surviving long enough to get multiple spell blade procs off. Add in a GA to give resistances and add to the unkillable style build. It's not OP but it's definitely a very strong 3 item combo. Just gotta get there, luckily Steraks isn't too expensive but is rather really cheap.
: Hydra exchange exploit (Intentional?)
This seems like a really cool idea, it's a little weird because of the cost different, however I would really love this change to stay. If it is a bug possible just fix up the hydras so they cost the same and then make it a feature, if it's not a bug, I think I'll probably use this on weaker early game champions like Riven to get Hydra but build defensively while I go for it.
: Concerned for AP based champs.
Okay so first I'm gonna address the one part I disagree with, Riven is all about AD ratios, she is entirely physical damage and her base damages are garbage, she actually doesn't benefit as much from the new items as she does from the reworked items and isn't anything to special compared to most AD champs. I think the offensive Mastery tree being weaker early game is gonna be huge for this next patch regarding Riven, it means unless she has high stacks in Fervor of Battle she probably won't be able to 1v1 most other Fighters early due to poor base damage and will play to scale. As for the rest I agree on the mages being weak part Sorcery is a really weak mastery and the Tier 6 offensive masteries only have 1 that benefits mages. I would like to see the crit one be reworked into something different that benefits both types of champions, I really think something based off of Lux passive would be the best way to go about it, mark champions with spells and then detonate with autos for extra damage, usable by most champions and fun with counter play. I disagree with Riot nerfing the AP items and increasing the overall cost of builds in general, there are now a lot of items 3500+ gold and that just simply feels too expensive with how hard it is to get to the late game as it is. I also dislike how most mages don't have enough mana to kill another champion at level 1 simply by landing their best ability 100% of the time. You would oom before the enemy runs out of hp, that's not even taking into consideration the difficulty of CSing as AP vs AD. Mana is this game is too harsh. I think Riot needs to go through and lower a lot of mage Mana costs, Lux E, Lissanra spells, Morgana W, Syndra Q, Ahri Q, Galio abilities, Nami and Sona heals, TF W, and Ziggs Q to name a few.
Rioter Comments
: ap cait support main detected. good riddance foul scum
I've never played AP Caitlyn once, I just value base damage on my abilities. Making things higher skill is pretty cool, but making things more tedious or else they are weaker is not, make the net harder to hit sure, np I can appreciate having to be better in order to reap reward, My moronic enemy steps on a trap and I gotta auto him? or he doesn't get punished for being dumb, kind of annoying, especially if I am not near him.
: Except that Traps are maxed last on Caitlyn. so you're looking at all of that vs 80 magic damage. This is a massive Buff especially with being able to drop all you traps at once. Cait's ideal in teamfights was always standing behind a wall of traps, and now that's actually a realistic expectation. Cait already has insane AD ratios, now she has even more and massive range that fits her fantasy.
What I said has nothing to do with maxed out traps, even the 80 base damage is more valuable than the head shot that this new Caitlyn will get. Honestly I'm starting to realize it doesn't really matter. This isn't the same as when they nerfed Skarner or Sion, any changes like failure traps can easily be buffed when Riot see's how shit they are. It's not like they're removing Energize from her or anything so when nobody plays the new Caitlyn because her animations are still aids and her damage is even weaker. Riot can just add damage back, hopefully to traps. This is only a buff if the enemy is 650-1300 range.
: You never max W first, no matter what. Q gives more waveclear a lot better poke and the W just isn't as reliable as you think.
Q waveclear is fine with 1 point since it only goes up by 160 base damage which is pretty garbage compared to most, when you consider how slow the ability is, it's not worth using for anything but waveclear, I'd rather just auto with high AS. Traps on an 8 second CD provide a lot of lane control because melee champions can't do anything to you when you stand on them. I notice a lot of Caitlyns are very bad at utilizing traps and usually just place them near the enemy, but using them for defensive ability is way more important to me than having a small amount of additional Q damage that comes with a 40 higher mana cost.
: He still retains the 10% bonus, so he effectively deals 55% magic, 55% physical.
Ah okay then, just came from the Caitlyn nerf thread, and was worried most of the adcs aside from MF would be getting nerfed. Thanks for clearing that up.
: This is a substantial buff to traps. You are correct that taking advantage of their new power requires having a pulse. That's not a bad thing in my book.
Please CertainlyT, reconsider this base damage nerf to traps If a trap is sprung under 650 range, you would auto anyways so the 80-280 Base damage + 100% AD is a lot stronger than the 0 base damage and 150%-250% AD, especially considering 250% is a result of crit and is therefor a late game thing that with the new IE nerfs will not be present in Caitlyn builds for lane. If the trap is sprung from 1300+ range, then it's 80-280 base damage vs 0 damage. My opponents get to be morons as long as they are 1300 range away and I get punished for it. The only time your change can possibly be considered a buff is if a trap is sprung while you are 650-1300 range away from it or if you for some reason have nearly 100% crit in the very late game. Even then, the change is absolutely a massive nerf for anyone who levels traps first, which I've come to understand is not as common as I thought it was, but when you're Q and E are that slow casting it's easily the best choice. At the very least if you're trying to enforce the Q max first at least make it cast faster, getting 2-4 autos off during 1 Q just makes it such an awful spell. Edit: One more thing, if I were to rank how often my traps get stepped on in proximity to me, I'd say it goes 1-650 range 1300+ range 650-1300 So it's rare that you're double range thing would ever come into play, which is the only opportunity it has to out damage the live values.
: 1) Why would you ever max W first? It weakens Cait's incredible auto+Q poke, which is what makes her so oppressive in a lot of lanes. 2) Cait's auto range is effectively doubled for the "free" headshot vs trapped targets. This, combined with the increased damage to first target on Q, actually makes her Auto+Q poke STRONGER and SAFER than its current iteration if you use it against a target who walks into a trap. 3) You are getting more traps more frequently. In teamfights, that means you are a marksman who litters the battlefield with snares. Either every single enemy champion avoids up to FIVE traps, or somebody stumbles into one, gets snared during teamfight prep, and has a very, very bad time. When that happens, a headshot is the least of their worries.
Q only adds 160 base damage and increases in mana cost by up to 40. It's not that strong when you consider how slowly it casts, most of the time you can get 2-4 autos during a Q cast and they would do more damage. W just seems like a no brainer, get it down to 8 second CD and place it all around for 30 mana per cast and if you get engaged on by a melee it'll already out damage Q by being higher number and magic damage. The new trap mechanic requires you to be within 650-1300 range of the person in the trap in order to ever be a buff, and even then for someone who maxes W, the damage from W is better than the head shot would be in lane. You your trap is hit within 650 range you would auto anyways so you only gain 50% AD bonus from the change 80 base magic damage is higher than 50% of your AD during lane, let alone if you max traps first for the full 280 base damage. If the opponent is out of 1300 range when they hit the trap, they take 80-280 currently or 0 after the patch. I believe traps have a maximum of 3, and are not being changed in CD, only that they are charges. So you won't have more, in fact because of the CD nerf you will have less overall, it'll just make it easier for bad Caitlyn players to have more out at once.
: For the ultimate, is there a reason why it was un-changed? Don't get me wrong, it's a nice ultimate but there are so many nice things you can do with it. I remember there were lots of suggestions saying that, what if an enemy steps on a trap, Caitlyn would be able to ult them from any range, or the range could be doubled. This could be a little bit strong, but what if it lost damage on how far it traveled? I don't know, it just seems like a nice concept that can fit into so many places within her kit.
Another cool option would be if there wasn't so much counter play that it became useless. Like what if you ult a target and they get someone in front, so the person in front takes 100% of ultimate damage and the person behind takes 50%, or if it goes through 3 people the targeted person takes 25% or for 4 people 12.5%. Making the ult still have counter play, but useful at the same time. Edit: Holy Shit, looks like I missed something above, someone else suggested the exact same thing.
: a) Unless I'm misreading something, none of cait's compensation nerfs are anywhere close to the power of her buffs. Maybe i'm just missing something though b) My question isn't about not giving weak adcs new fun toys to play with or better thematic. I never said that was bad. It's the compensation nerfs that are the problem. For instance, giving Twitch a reset on his stealth? Cool. He needs some love. Reducing his ult duration by 28%, when his ult is what makes him amazing: Not cool. Or Draven, gets better axe mechanics. Good, he needed a small buff...and reduce his attackspeed gains to the 2nd lowest of all ADCs. WHY?!
For the record Caitlyns best ability is about to become her worst ability, and not all the adcs are getting nerfed, MF actually seems pretty decent for someone that is kind of weak of live. However Caitlyn is currently considered very weak, in fact I haven't seen a challenger player touch her since S3 and I do watch a fair amount of streams. Meanwhile both Draven and Twitch have been picks in LCS this season, and both do a shit ton of damage late game, much more than Caitlyn ever would. Most Adcs this patch are getting nerfed, it's how Riot reworks, you should have seen 4.10 Skarner, 5.16 at least came with high win rate after the nerfs but the 4.10 nerfs had no bright side, there was a dark side and a darker side. I think we should consider ourselves lucky that MF is coming out of this better than she went in. Then again it's easy to say when my favorite adc gets buffed, but poor Caitlyn, Draven and Twitch should count themselves lucky they aren't Caitlyn.
: This is a substantial buff to traps. You are correct that taking advantage of their new power requires having a pulse. That's not a bad thing in my book.
It's only a buff to those who don't level them first, 280 base damage reduced by like 20% is still 230 base damage, where as the between 100-200 AD you'll have during lane, lets say 200 AD. You got 50% so that's 100 physical damage (now I don't know if auto attack damage is also applied but lets assume both scenarios) 300 - around 30% = 210, which means that assuming the headshot is auto attack + 50% you're still doing 40 less damage at around level 9. Now lets say it's not counting auto damage since you don't specify so I don't actually know. That'd be a measly 70 damage as opposed to the traps current 230. You have to take into account how bad Caitlyns other abilities actually are and how much more worth it, it is to level trap first. As well as how little magic resist an Adc is going to have during laning phase. In the late game assuming this does auto attack damage + headshot there is potential for this new one to do more damage, but it still requires you to be nearby, so no using it against junglers in their jungle and no damage while dead. "Oh Caitlyn died? These traps have become incredibly worthless, lets disarm them for free. " I honestly never thought you guys would give Caitlyn a worse ability than Piltover Peacemaker but I was wrong, I was so so wrong, this is by far worse than the slowness of Piltover Peacemaker, and even though you're nerfing Piltover Peacemaker, I still think it'd be better than these traps, because at least Piltover Peace Maker might hit somebody and can be used as they run out of auto attack range. I can get 2-4 autos, depending on Attack Speed during a Piltover Peacemakers cast making it such an awful skill for a champion like Caitlyn, and yet she's gonna have a worse ability. Anytime the new traps would actually be more useful than the old traps, a Caitlyn would just use Ace in the Hole and get the kill. It's clear you guys want to get rid of AP Caitlyn, but it'd be better to just remove the scaling, there is no reason to remove the base damage. This is Caitlyns best ability and I probably wouldn't even put it in a "Top 50 non ultimate abilities in League of Legends" Most people probably wouldn't even put it in a top 100.
: Most broken thing in LoL
Yea TP nerfs are pretty dumb, considering the favortism to flash, I'd say it's better to leave both Flash and TP alone but buff other summoner spells. Like imagine if Clarity had some sort of CD reset or flat number CD reduction on cast. Barrier could definitely be made much bigger, and ignite CD lower.
: Corki PBE Feedback Thread
Wait so is Corki losing 10% damage on autos in exchange for autos that can potentially be worse in some games or was the 10% true damage a part of his autos. I guess like was it 90% physical and 10% true damage or what it 100% physical + an additional 10% true damage. Because if it on live is currently 100% + 10% this new passive is actually really shitty, Corki doesn't NEED more magic damage, however having just straight up less damage in exchange for more of it being magic seems really really bad. A lot of these seem to be nerfs being falsely labeled as reworks just like Skarners or Sions reworks. Is there a reason why you feel the need to leave champions with overall less power every time you rework them? I mean I am a big hater of the focus on damage in this game myself and how damage > durability, however if you're gonna nerf it, nerf it over, or target the highest damage champions like assassins and shit.
: Caitlyn Gameplay Update Feedback Megathread
"but we drained some power and reliability from this spell to make room for power elsewhere" Umm where is the power? All I see are nerfs. Removing the 280 magic damage in order to give back 50% to 150% of AD physical damage while alive and near is pretty shitty. This means trap max early is no longer good but her Q and E still suck due to outrageously bad animations. These aren't quick skill shots like Ezreal Q or E, these things are slow and feel worse than a Taric or old Sion stun. You may get a bit more damage late game on traps but your traps used to do magic damage meaning they're less shit on by resistances, instead you're now entirely physical damage and you do less damage for most of the early game with traps. Why nerf Caitlyn when she already isn't played? Traps are the best spell she has with how bad Q animation is and yet their being nerfed to be the worst traps in the game, Shaco, Teemo, Nidalee, Maokai, and Zyra all have better traps. If this change actually goes through, Caitlyn will go from being the third best of the traps to be the absolute worst. I personally don't care if Q and E get nerfed into the ground, but please don't nerf the traps, they are the one good thing Caitlyn has going for her.
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
Made this a long time ago, posted it a few places, this was back when Riot seemed to be super adamant about giving Skarner that stupid stun. http://i.imgur.com/ouo9V1J.png That is how Skarner should be, it's so easy to see and yet we have to put up with this whole shrine bullshit and being as slow as an adc, despite the fact that Skarner has always been a very speed focused champion.
: New Items - Sterak's Gage and Titanic Hydra
Can Renekton turn his W into an AoE cone stun using Titanic Hydra?
: He can solo a buff at lvl one. Takes 2 potions to do it and get out with half hp, but he can do it. I checked. Calm down a little, I'm just as ticked by this latest butchering of Skarner, but being this aggressive and not checking things before you post them will only make them not want to listen to us =(
I managed to solo red buff alone by using smite, no pots necessary, but his clear is definitely inferior, it's also really annoying, I kept hearing two really annoying noises, one was because my Q was always on CD, and I kept pressing it hearing that annoying noise, the other was the sound of a heart, I think it was from the new item so maybe this is irrelevant but that CD noise is super annoying.
: As an avid Skarner player these changes aren't what I expected in a sort of negative way. I saw all the other changes to Garen, Darius and Mordekaiser and was hoping Skarner might have gotten something good. Now I'm not saying everything is negative but there's a good chunk of it I don't find relevant (?) Pros: -The passive is a really idea overall because it helps your jungling. -The new scaling on his W. It's good all around for the tanky Skarners. -The E isn't just some worthless slow that does 10 damage anymore. (Worthless may be much but my point still stands) Cons: (oh boy where do I start) -The movespeed nerf. I understand that with the new passive is meant to compensate for this but the crystals don't help at all during ganks/teamfights. -The removal of the AS/MS from Q. I can understand the AS removal since it was mainly used for jungle clear but the MS removal hurts him a lot more than it should. Previously you can use Q to build up some movement speed on minions and catch up to enemies but now I feel as if Skarner would be to reliant on his E for ganks pre-6. -This might contradict my first Pro but the passive itself feels useless. Of course it helps you jungle but how does that help around the game? His fighting in teamfights (wow nice one me) in the jungle will be a bit complicated. On one hand he might get pretty good bonuses from his passive but on the other hand if the enemy team manages to recapture it the bonuses are gone and he might be risking something trying to capture it back but I also see that it would be part of the whole reward thing for getting a shrine(?). -His jungling becomes significantly better but in tradeoff I can see his early game ganking be significantly weaker which honestly I don't think is any good because I've played a lot of Skarner and know for a fact that his clearing isn't hard at all. -The ult changes without the old passive seems a bit harsh. The main problem for these new Skarner changes I think is the fact that you're trying to change the wrong things or just adding too much options to the wrong abilities. The E change I think is absolutely fantastic but just the whole removal of everything else from his kit kinda makes me sad ({{item:3070}}). He used to be a fantastic jungler that had an amazing mid game with huge dueling potentiel and now I just see him as a completely team focused champion where you just focus on objectives, which isn't bad per say it just doesn't doesn't fit in with his playstyle in my opinion. Alright so it's been a long read and I thank you if you've been able to bear with my grammar (it's late and english isn't my native language). I also have some questions: What happens on different maps? How much gold does the enemy team get from capturing the spires? Do you think that 20 damage on the level 1 ultimate is a bit harsh considering that most skarners will only ever build 1 damage item? (This kind of brings back the whole dueling aspect).
They always remove so much more than they add. 4.3 they removed a perma slow and a heal, they added a slow, and shifted some shit around with minor buffs and nerfs. 4.10 they removed Energize (the best passive) as well as most of his consistent damage, they gave a very short stun and a movement speed on Q buff. 5.16 they remove movement speed, attack speed, base shield (which was one of the minor things buffed in 4.3) and movement speed, in return they give this stupid shrine passive and wait is that actually it? I'm unsure about whether the damage is a buff or nerf yet as my PBE is still updating however aside from that. Wow. Someday Skarner will be a champion who has had everything removed, except Q with a base damage of 2/4/6/8/10
: Actually, RiotRepertoir stated earlier that the crystals will spawn in different places on every game mode/map (which could actually make it a lot stronger for Howling Abyss). That aside, glad to see someone who remembers the old Skarner and his awesomeness! Really, I think the best thing to do for Skarner would be to revert him to his original (pre-rework-1) state, then change the slow on his Q to the live movespeed buff and decrease the E cost. Then he could be viable in top as well, and his true identity- that of someone you don't want to fight for extended periods of time- would be restored.
Holy shit, marry me, I love you. Someone who finally gets it, 4.10 had only one worthwhile change, movement speed on Q, if the problem was perma slows (though Ashe never had hers removed) then just give him movement speed. I so much miss not being forced to build tank in order to play this champion. The Trinity Force + Wits End combo was so effective on him and will always remain as my favorite item build in the game.
: > 1- the base movespeed nerf (15 MS is a huge number when you don't have blinks or dashes) Yes, this is a big deal, I'll keep an eye on it. > 2- the passive switched onto the E (both his sustain in the jungle and his ganking potential are going down) I think his E's power in a gank is actually a lot stronger now, but maybe not. Why do you think his sustain is going down in the jungle? > 3- the removed attack speed and movespeed boosts on his Q (both his clear speed and his ganking potential are going down) His clear speed should be up due to crystals, yes, this will have some impact on his gank speed. If you get a chance to check out the changes in game, please do let me know how it goes!
His first buff will take him much lower because his Q doesn't do any damage because of the 4.10 nerfs, which were made to compensate for that stupid passive, which is, I can't believe I'm saying this, MUCH BETTER THAN THIS NEW PASSIVE. I absolutely hated that inferior Braum passive from 4.10 but compared to this new one, oh god that Braum passive is just so much better. Needless to say Energize was the best passive of them all and you should look back to what made Skarner good rather than trying to reinvent him every season. Currently his clear is inferior due to the change of crystalizing sting, which means he takes more hits and I bet he can't even solo a buff at level 1. Which honestly I do as most of the junglers I play. Since leashes don't come every game, especially if you start a buff, teams don't like missing that first minion just so their jungler can have an easier/safer first clear.
: I realize that a lot of Riot's decisions regarding the game can often undergo serious backlash (just like the HUD update), and I emphasize with Rioters about all the negative backlash they receive for things they possibly spent a lot of time on. I am typically one who applauds Riot for their successes, rather than shame them for failures. I have enjoyed the other reworks they have put out over the past year or two (My favorite possibly being Xerath's). The only last time I was seriously disappointed in Riot, coincidentally, was with their first iteration of Skarner's rework (the one prior to the addition of his stun). I regret to say this Skarner rework may possibly be a much bigger disappointment in my eyes. As a long standing Skarner main, it seems like Riot did not concern themselves with maintaining Skarner's identity. In my eyes, Skarner has always been about sticking to an enemy champions, dealing sustained damage in fights, as well as using his ultimate to pick off champions on the enemy team in skirmishes and sometimes teamfights. Skarner has always thrived in skirmishes much more than he does in teamfights, which is most likely why he has not seen competitive play (Organized teams who stick together have always made it difficult for Skarner to do his job). It seems like whoever was behind this rework really liked the idea of adding this new passive to Skarner, that they completely gutting him outside of the zones trying to balance him. His Q feels super sluggish and unresponsive in the jungle (due to the nerf to his Q passive against monsters and the removal of the attack speed/movement speed bonuses), and as a result, his first clear took a significant hit. Prior to this rework, Skarner could solo clear Gromp, Blue buff, then Red buff, and come out at around 75% health or more. Now, Skarner emerges from this route with ~20% health, making it unwise to try and gank after. Additionally, Skarner lost all his stickyness with the removal of his Q bonus movement speed and with the nerf to his base movement speed. Skarner is going to have a MUCH bigger issue with kiting, and its going to make it make him feel much more useless. Skarner's high movement speed has always been something very fun and unique to his kit after the removal of his Q permaslow, and I'm quite sad its being cut. Lastly, while the new passive definitely makes you feel strong within its zones, it leaves you feeling VERY weak outside of its zones. I personally find this passive to be very gimmicky and not viable. It seems like rarely will you ever fight in these zones, as it is very easy for teams to step outside its confines are return you to your sluggish and weak state. Ultimately, I am unsure as to what this rework hopes to accomplish, as it will leave Skarner in a significantly worse place that where he currently is. I'm sure I am not alone when I ask you to please refrain from taking this rework to live servers. I'd rather you keep Skarner how he is on live and have you call off all plans to rework Skarner, but I know the odds of that are very low. So instead Riot, I ask you to revise your current approach to Skarner and possibly come up with a new rework altogether, as this one seems to be such a misfit in regards to keeping Skarner as Skarner. Thank you to all of those who read this comment.
I agree with you they need to scrap the rework, but I wanna touch on your point, you said Skarners thing has always been sticking to a person and dealing damage. However patch 4.10 should have come as a disappointment to you as well, as it halved Skarners damage past the first 3 hits and significantly increased his cooldowns. Every single Skarner rework had been awful, and 4.10 was honestly the worst. yea in 4.3(?) he had his perma slow removed, and his attack speed became something that ramps up and gives less. However he did at least get significant buffs to his shield there. The heal was removed which was dumb but the slow that replaced it kept him playable in the same way to an extent. However 4.10 killed the idea of being an inescapable duelist and just made him a bottom tier CC tank, Which they will continue butchering with this next patch.
: Skarner should still have a pretty reliable tank/lockdown threat (probably even greater than before in this regard, given how is E now works) outside of his passive zones. What the zones really provide to him is incredibly boosted DPS and stickiness
Skarner isn't a tank! He is a Fighter, he is a DPS champion that require durability in his build in order to dish out damage. People do not build tank stats on fighters because they want them to be tanks, they do it because the fighter needs it or they die before they get any damage off, go full AD Skarner and you will melt through your shield when you run at someone, therefor we take advantage of his high base AD and build Trinity Force, then we build durability and possibly a bit more damage on the durability items, this way we can deal the damage. It's like Irelia, nobody builds Trinity Force, BotRK and then the 4 80 AD items. We buy durability, because the longer you live the more hits you get out, it's how a melee DPS works when they aren't given the training wheels of an assassin or the mobility/safety of some special cases in Fighters such as Riven or Tryndamere.
: ~~*Disclaimer*: I haven't played him, yet. I'll post again once I have, but these are my initial reactions to the change list:~~ **Edit**: Tested him. Not good. ----- I've never been this confused or disappointed about champion changes. I've been a Skarner fan for a long time and I really don't understand what the thought process is behind this. Out of these 4 Jugger-champs, I think he was in the best spot. After this, I think he's the worst of the bunch. **Theme** * Crystals. Skarner likes crystals. I get it. However, the whole Dominion-esque capture point system would make a lot more sense if Skarner didn't get *retconned to Shurima* a while back. He's not even from the Crystal Scar, any more. * The Crystal Shrines really aren't all that exciting. In fact, they're pretty boring. Garen gets to identify the MVP of the enemy team and deal bonus true JUSTICE to them. Darius goes on a max-stack bloodfueled murder spree. Mordekaiser gets to dumpster the enemy duo lane and then gets a pet ghost-dragon. Skarner gets to... farm the jungle. With a Crystal next to him. It's incredibly lackluster, compared to the other Juggernaut updates. * Skarner doesn't even get to interact with the Crystals at all. It would be cool if he could shoot Fracture at them and reflect it out in an AoE, or shoot Fracture through a Crystal to extend the range...but, nope. You just get to walk next to them. **Gameplay** * So much of his power has been gutted and tied to those damn Crystal Shrines. Skarner was already really good at farming the jungle and dueling the enemy jungler. Now he's only *sometimes* good at that, as long as the enemy willingly chooses to fight him next to one that he controls. The thing he was good at is now highly situational and the things he was bad at, he's even worse at. His skirmishing and teamfighting is going to take a huge hit. His ganks aren't going to be better, even with the changes to E, because his stats and damage output got dropped. * Why does Q still have to charge? Originally, it was so you couldn't slow people on the first hit. Then it was kind of linked to his AS/MS buff. Now it does nothing, other than reduce the damage you deal on the first cast. Can't you just even out the damage and simplify the spell, at this point? Keep that cool charged sound and visual effect, though. * Fracture still sucks. When I saw a Rioter say that Skarner is going to still be a Q-Spamming, Skittering, Impaling dude, I thought to myself, "Oh, good. They're finally fixing Fracture." I guess this is technically better than it was before, but in the big picture, I don't think this is going to help Skarner out all that much (unless someone allows you to stun them next to your Crystal Shrine, but...come on.) * Adding the mini-game that requires Skarner to keep control of areas on the map seems like it will add even more to his "feast or famine" gameplay. So much of his power budget got linked to the Shrines, but the objective of a jungler is to apply pressure across the map, not to babysit some pet rocks. * Oh God, why is he ***so slow***? Any time you're not near a Shrine (so, most of the game), you feel like you're just crawling along the Rift like a stupid little baby. Takes forever to clear the Gromp or Razorbeaks. Takes forever to walk to lanes. Takes forever to go Ward stuff. You go to gank, you hit them with E and stun them. They pop your shield and walk away *because only 20 champions in the game are slower than you are.* What happened to speedy Skarner? **That was his identity.** Not zone control. * New Skarner gives *less* play options to the player. You can't use Q on minions to get extra MS on the way to a gank. You can't stack up AS to win fights. You can't build up stuns on multiple people throughout a fight. You're either in your zone and you feel like an actual champion, or you're off the zone and you just press buttons, walk towards people, and hope they don't run away from you. ----- **Edit**: After messing around on the PBE a bit... I miss my kind. Definitely not happy with these at all. He feels so sluggish and unresponsive. The Shrines might sound like an okay idea, but they're just not practical. It's unrealistic to think that any Skarner player is going to be able to "take advantage" of his strong zones when they're so far away from pretty much everything. The only time you feel like your champion is functioning properly is when you're afk farming. If you're anywhere else on the map, you just feel bad. Really bad.
You just made me think of something, Skarner no longer has a passive on Howling Abyss, Crystal Scar, or Twisted Treeline, I already hated getting the nerfed piece of shit on ARAM when he got his last shitty passive, but now he won't even have a passive at all. I miss Energize.
: I have yet to test the changes, but This is the first idea it comes to my mind, the as buff might be able to be replaced with the crystals for red and blue, but for applying the stun(now e passive) or cleaning other camps, he doesnt have that nice attack speed buff anymore :P. I would like to see if possible an explanation for this change :). Thanks in advance.
The problem is YOU! The community, you keep building full tank on Skarner, or Trinity Force into full tank, stuff like this, Riot views this champion as a Tank, not a Fighter now as a result of your builds. They wanna give him more tank stuff, no more attack speed, no more damage, but instead, hp scaling on his shield, encouraging your stupid jungle item and hp stacking. Every Skarner rework is just a nerf to every Fighter aspect about him and a tiny very minuscule change to help in tanking. Poor Sion, but even more poor fucking Skarner. I miss his kind, Fighters are amazing.
: is 15 mvm that important?
Are you kidding we pay 325 gold for 25 movement speed? Why would we buy boots at all when we can just get more damage or tankiness and more expensive items, it's because of how important the movement speed is, 330 movement speed is the movement speed adcs usually get, and 5 more than the lowest amount. Considering he got a 15 remove, he lost a lot, you think that seems tiny but 5 movement speed faster than the slowest champion in the game is big. Skarner also lacks any gap closers, and uses percent movement speed buffs on Q and W, those are now weakened as a result of his lower movement speed and the new passive movement speed while garbage in the first place, is less effective on him than it should be because of this. If Skarner has a successful gank after this rework, it is entirely because the enemy didn't ward/pay attention to map, or the enemy champion is very very good at setting up ganks and probably didn't even need the gank.
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
He still doesn't get his passive back, and now he is being turned into an hp stacking tank, we thought we could fight back against the tank changes of 4.10 by building more damage to compensate, and so you guys like the dicks you are, remove the base shield and replace it with an hp scaling, now the shield will be garbage unless we build hp, which was the entire reason we needed the passive back. Intent on destroying what made this champion great during S3 and beginning of S4. But to make things worse, THE GOLD ON THE PASSIVE? Isn't not allowing his passive incentive enough to capture them? Why does the enemy get gold. Current Skarner is not the type of champion who is so strong that he can defend these things, and he is being nerfed to become even more tank focused, so how is he supposed to prevent his enemies from getting this free gold, unless he just chooses to allow them to capture every one just once and play without a passive. Please remove the gold from his passive, for both sides, but especially the enemy, there are champions in this game that CAN help enemies such as Anivia and Bard. However you are turning Skarner into the one champion, that straight up DOES help the enemy. The passives not even that good, compared to Mordekaisers dragon, or Garens outrageous true damage that destroys the counter play. Skarners "passive" is just bad. I miss the days when I could build Trinity Force + Wits End on Skarner and then just go durability from there. I was a Durable DPS, focused on getting the 1v1s, targets couldn't get away and I would 1v1 them. Perma slow nerf was a thing but it wasn't the worst thing, Skarner was still a fine duelist up until patch 4.10 when they decided damage wasn't his thing and said fuck his highest AD scaling, lets make him a tank. He had the best passive removed from the game in order to gain an inferior Braum passive and then his damage was halved, okay yea sure the passive gave a little bit back, but it goes on a 6 second CD after that, so after 3 hits his damage is half of what it used to be. Now you're trying to make him even more tank focused, and it sucks, it's not a good idea.
: Lane Shyvana is what induced this nerf. Cinderhulk Shyv top is insanely strong while jungle shyvana is lackluster. Nerfing the base damage is what reduces some of lane Shyvana's damage and pressure.
Cinderhulk Shyvana is not very strong, it forces her into a tank build, and the Cinderhulk doesn't do as much damage as Sunfire Cape. Even when jungling with Shyvana you're better off going with current Devourer than Cinderhulk.
: Can we keep Shyvana's W damage the same but remove 20% extra to minions and monsnters?
: I do not think you understand the benefit the current Devourer's passive. Reanalyze how all her damages stack without her building much in the way of offense asides from BotRK and getting Sated.
If they are nerfing her W because they assume she is gonna be building these items and be too OP, then that is also really dumb, they should be balancing their items interactions with each other, not nerfing all the champions who can use the items thus forcing them to follow the build set out by Riot. I play Shyvana top mostly, and I don't even build BotRK
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