: Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread
OK, I made a comment yesterday that was more of a rage than a comment, so now that I've calmed down and you've fixed some of the problems I'll try to actually list my ideas. (Also, you all = Riot) First, the passive - Out of all of the nerfs, this was probably the most reasonable, so it's kind of weird, but I'm not going to complain about its reversion. More tankiness and heals, so whatever. The only problem is that the slight buff in power here could be more useful in other places, such as his W. But I'll get into that later. Q - THANK YOU. I really liked the attack range buff, but it wasn't much of a buff until you all fixed it. I'd still like there to be a slightly longer silence (1.75 seconds?), but still, Thank you!! W - Still a welcomed buff but not one people really wanted. I guess the passive is OK and it fulfills its role as a one-point-wonder ability now, but I feel it would be much, much better if the cap was raised to something such as 40 or 50 to make up for the less resistances people will have from the removal of the 20% bonus resistances. Or it could just be changed back to the 20% resistances thing, but you all seem to be somewhat against that. As for the active, PLEASE add something to it. Sure, 30% less damage is really good, but if you're gonna remove the tenacity at least move that stickiness power into tankiness power. People have been throwing around that idea of letting Perseverance apply (and/or not be turned off) during Courage's duration, and that seems really cool and would still reward good timing even in the early game when it wont be that powerful. It would also work as a way for Garen to shrug off poke in his now weaker early game if it's timed right, which is an idea I really like but I'm not sure you all will. E - THANK YOU FOR REMOVING THE SELF SLOW. Out of all of the things added that weren't quite right that was the worst, but you all listened to us and removed it. The added base damage also help his weaker early game too but there's one things that still doesn't sit right with most of us. 25% less damage when hitting multiple targets? Why? Why?!?! Many other summoners have already explained this, but now all the villain needs to do is hug some other unit. This doesn't even have to be a champion, just a UNIT. You could find someone alone in the jungle and he could just hug Gromp and you wouldnt be able to do very much about it. And in teamfights, you're almost always gonna hit another unit. Champion, minion, pet, etc. It's like just shaving off 25% of his damage at all times. Revert this and add back the old 25% less damage to minions and everything will be fine. R - Unchanged, which is fine. Please Riot, you're going in the right direction. And I love it. Just don't make it so Garen has self-counterplay, and add something to the W. That's it.
: Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread
OK, I would call myself a Garen main (Mastery 5), and, I like where you're trying to take Garen, but this is in no way at all how to do it. The buffs are nice by all means - more spin ticks (I really like that), the Villain mechanic, yeah. But honestly, I think you could have just added those two and kept all of the other abilities the same and Garen would be what you want him to be while also being strong. Garen's BEST ROLE was the ability to meat shield. His passive and W gave him that perfectly. Why nerf that? The 20% bonus resistances thing was fine - and worked much better than just free resistances for farming. I mean, if you really want that mechanic in, then make it infinite. Then it would be worth something. But the average bruiser Garen gets so much more out of the 20% than just 30 more resistances. Heck, you could just buff his base resistances and get the same effect. And the passive - ok, yeah, I saw a nerf coming on that. But the nerf means SO MUCH MORE when he's so much more squishy. It's not really justifiable now. As for the definitive role you want Garen to take, I like it. You want him to single out the most important enemy and kill them, and that's fine; it's been his role for a while now and you're just making it more clear. But if you really want that, WHY MAKE HIM EVEN **MORE** KITEABLE?? Seriously? I get he needs counterplay and all of that, but he was ALREADY incredibly kiteable (too much I would say, but well, I'm a Garen main). He slows himself when he attacks with his main damage source? Why does that make any sense? And even if that was fixed, why nerf his only CC?? And make the classic crit Garen build not work?? Does this NOT go against what you all are trying to do?? > [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Y7ELMJAK,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-08-04T21:30:44.078+0000) > > If there's any part of the changelist that's too much, I'll be happy to reel it in. All data we have so far suggests that he's at least as powerful as Live with these changes, and likely quite a bit stronger. As for this, Garen doesn't need to be **AT LEAST** as powerful as he is on live now. He needs BUFFS. Very, very large buffs. Something to make him a viable option somewhere other than the depths of bronze. So please, keep the general buffs, but the nerfs are just too much.


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