: Hi frens. Changelist for tomorrow (2/8): We've got a few bug fixes and A WHOLE LOT OF SFX/VO GOODNESS coming your way (thanks to Matteo, Rengar's current sound designer) > **Balance -** > W Damage:: 60/90/120/150/180 >>> 50/80/110/140/170 > > **Bugs -** > Fixed a bug where leap could only crit if used with Q. (now crits normally) > Fixed a number of Tooltip bugs for Rengar's buff bar icons. > > **SFX/VO -** > Updated Q SFX for Rengar's Mecha skin > Adjusted hit and cast SFX on regular and emp Q to make them sound more impactful > Rengar no longer plays Attack or Move VO while ulting (HE'S FOCUSING SHHHHH) > Added VO that plays whenever he gets a bonetooth stack (changes based on stack number) > 1 - "I'm just getting started" > 2 - "More prey more prizes" > 3 - "A token of my conquests" > 4 - "A fine collection" > 5 - "Leave only a trail of bodies" Thoughts - W damage revert is due to the change feeling uneeded, he's already getting a lot out of lowering the spell's cooldown, not sure we need to buff its damage as well (Especially since his jungle seems to be doing fine despite losing old Q AoE). Crit Rengar's rejoice, you can leap crit now (oh no) I added "Rengar's next attack takes his target on a trip to stab town" for the tooltip on his empowered Q buff bar icon. Too much? We got a lot of feedback that the new Q sounds didn't feel impactful. The new iteration should feel better. Tell us what you think. It's unlikely we go back to OLD OLD sounds, but we think we can iterate the new ones to a point that feels good for y'all. Rengar kept talking during his ult. What's up with that? HE'S PRIDESTALKING #$*@ IT! Now he should be nice and silent for feels of maximum SNEEK. (still says "focus" at the start ofc). We had these dope as hell bonetooth VO hookups that were going unused. Now they're used. You should hear some pithy quotes whenever you collect a new trophy. "Leave only a trail of bodies" MORE BALANCE TUNING AND BUGFIXES TO COME. Thanks summoners. The feedback is great.
This might be a little late into the updating process, but have you considered changing Bonetooth's bonuses to provide out-of-combat movement speed, and instead shifting the increased damage elsewhere into his kit and base stats? Rengar tends to fall really ahead or behind depending on his early Bonetooth stacks, so making his damage output a little more consistent could help alleviate that, while still rewarding him for taking down each member of the enemy team.
: **Update, Friday 2/2:** First of all - **PBE IS IN BRANCH CUT FOR 8.3 - WE HAD TO PULL THE CHANGES FOR A WEEK SO THEY DON'T GO LIVE EARLY - RENGAR CHANGES ARE STILL HAPPENING - THEY WILL BE BACK NEXT WEEK** Now that that is out of the way, going to give a quick update on what we're currently looking at internally. You won't see any of this until 8.4 PBE. As always, it's experimental and may not all ship. **Removal-** -AP Rengar buffs are out. No more AP on boonetooth, no more AP ratio on R. We overall feel like AP Rengar, is a less healthy version of AD Rengar when allowed to be strong. They're trying to do the same thing (jump on you and burst you), but AP (when strong) does it faster and with less time to react. As mentioned before, we aren't going to be deliberately making AP Rengar worse than what's on live. Overall, the Q revert's Lich Bane synergy and some changes we're trying with the W are going to make AP Rengar better regardless. -Triple Q, This pattern is bonkers. Especially in top lane. Likely going to make the empowered Q buff only last as long as the Ferocity combat timer (with a slight buffer added to make it feel good if you use it right at the end) and give the ferocity MS upfront on cast (if it isn't doing that already). Thoughts? **Numbers stuff -** -Q AD ratio up. We felt that the Q output wasn't scaling sufficiently into late game after we nerfed the upfront damage on the ult, so experimenting with higer Q AD ratios since his damage is no longer as frontloaded. -W base damage up, cooldown down. Feels like he's a bit low on AoE after the Q revert, so trying to help his early clear/laning a bit here. Also hopefully opens up more flexibility to max E second. Some worries about this making top-lane bruiser Rango too good. May need to revert. **-Bug fixes** Doing a QA sweep and attempting to fix LOTS OF BUGS. ** -Other stuff** -Still trying to figure out how to replicate the old Tiamat thing you guys seemed to enjoy so much. -Should he get more ferocity after ult? Should Q generate ferocity on cast? Answer is likely no. Uncertain. Still figuring it out. -Mecha Rengar Animation got some mixed feedback. Testing with VFX, may need to continue to iterate. -DOES ANYONE HAVE THE OLD BOONETOOTH ICONS IN A DRIVE SOMEWHERE? They looked pretty cool, kind of want to try hooking them up to see how they work, but I can't find them. They may have been lost to time...Will continue to search through the old files. Hrmmmm while typing this I thought of somewhere they might be... **FAQ - Why not remove the cast time from Rengar's Bola while he's in the air?** We will not be removing the E cast time. I know a lot of you would like that, and it would feel pretty slick, but I don't think it's a good idea D: This is because cast times in League make the game flow better. They create a natural spacing between spells that ensures everything doesn't come out in a single instant. This allows for mental parsing of what is happening to you and then time to react to it (or at least understand it better after it kills you). Historically, a primary issue Rengar has had is that he is a stealthy champ who attempts to one-shot from said stealth. Giving opponents even SLIGHT increases in the amount of time they have to adapt to a Rengar jumping on them likely creates huge returns for the feeling of playing against him, resulting in lower ban rates and happier players on both sides (opponents can react and Rengar players can play him more often at a higher resting winrate). Keep the feedback coming
Here are the old Bonetooth Necklace icons: * [1 Trophy](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/File:Bonetooth_Necklace_old.png) * [2 Trophies](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/File:Bonetooth_Necklace_2.png) * [3 Trophies](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/File:Bonetooth_Necklace_3.png) * [4 Trophies](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/File:Bonetooth_Necklace_4.png) * [5 Trophies](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/File:Bonetooth_Necklace_5.png) Their pages on the wiki should also have download links. On a completely different note: while I think you've done tremendous work on Rengar's changes, and am also very grateful that he's getting attention, I also feel he's still going to run into the issue of having very unstable balance. If something as small as a single cast time is enough to break even the new Rengar, then chances are he's still killing people too quickly from out of stealth. Because of this, I think it might really help a lot if he were moved away from front-loaded burst, as that in combination with his stealth is what makes him lack counterplay when ahead. I've talked with a lot of Rengar mains, and the vast majority of them heavily dislike his one-shot capabilities as well, so I think they too would be grateful to have a champion that feels as fluid as possible (in this case, with minimal to no cast times) in exchange for changes that would allow their opponent more time to fight back.
: 2 patch notes today (I was off Friday at an anime convention pretending to be 707 so didn't get a chance to write them then, apologies) Patch Notes for 1/29 (these should already be out on pbe) > R- > No longer grants ferocity on leaping to closest target (IGNORE THE TOOLTIP, IT IS BUGGED) Patch Notes for 1/30 (tomorrow) > Stats- > Base AS:: .625 + 3.5%/lvl >>> .666 + 3%/lvl > Sped up certain attack animations to make them feel crisper and better match with when the damage comes out (this is purely a visual change) > > P- > No longer plays Q animation when leaping with Q (looked bad) > Now plays Q Hit VFX when hitting target with leap Q (looks dope) > > W - > AP Ratio reverted:: .7 >>> .8 > > E - > AP Ratio Removed > > R- > Closest target leap bonus: 30% TAD + 60% AP Bonus physical damage +10/14/18 Armor shred for 4 seconds. > Fixed tooltip to reflect this > > Sounds- > All sounds are being reverted to live states until the 8/4 PBE cycle starts next week. > THEY WILL COME BACK, THIS IS TO PREVENT THE NEW ONES FROM SHIPPING TO LIVE IN 8.3 > >Skins - >Adding a new Q animation for Mecha Rango. (This is currently very WIP, still needs VFX, sound and general iteration) Context: Don't worry about the sounds being gone tomorrow, we'll bring them back. We had to revert them for the week so we can cut the 8.3 branch and ship it to live. Rengar's target patch remains 8.4 and the sounds will be back for the 8.4 PBE cycle. All gameplay changes will remain playable on PBE. Mecha Rango feels a little off now that his old Q is back, but his skin model has a SLASHY blade and not a STABBY knife. We're going to try giving him a fancy new SLASHY animation for Mecha Q. (THIS MAY NOT WORK OUT, IT IS TEMP, WE ARE TESTING) The base AS changes are there with the consideration that he basic attacks a lot more with reverted Q + his jungle clear has gotten a bit worse with the removal of live Q's AoE. Attacks should feel smoother as a result because Attack Speed makes everything feel 10/10. Reverting the AP ratio changes on W and E as I expect AP Rengar may already be getting a lot better only with the boonetooth changes and Q lich bane synergy. Additionally, E AP ratio wasn't adding much (since he maxes the spell last and it deals physical) and it felt bad to lower W ratio if we don't need to (since he uses it to clear/farm and ROAR-ROAR). Removing the ferocity from the ult as giving any amount of it on leap messes with Rengar's combo flow (turns out lions love casting tons of spells IN THE AIR, who knew). The combos as they exist on live are pretty smooth (Ult --> jump --> Basic spells --> Ferocity finisher) and it feels low value to mess with that. Something that's delayed (offering more counterplay) AND feels good for Rengar? Yes pls. So why not just remove the closest bonus entirely? We're not removing it because we think its GOOD COUNTERPLAY that the enemy team can body-block for their squishies to prevent Rengar from getting max value if he leaps on them. The difficulty we're running into here though is that the bonus has to be WORTH BLOCKING, but also NOT JUST ONE-SHOT A GUY. That's why we're trying a shred + small amount of cosmetic damage. Idea here is that it lowers up-front burst (giving time to flash), but then gives a lot of strength to Rengar's followup if his opponent can't get away (therefore making it worth it for opponents to block him from getting a "closest leap" on a squishy). As always, we're still iterating so not all of this will stay. Trying to make Rango as cool as possible while still offering adequate counterplay for his opponents. Please give feedback! Appreciate all your help <3.
First off, thank you so much for implementing these changes! You are making a lot of players very happy, and I think this will stand out for a very long time as an example of Riot directly incorporating community feedback into a champion. Regarding the closest target bonus on ult: I completely agree that Rengar needs to have power locked into the closest target while ulting, but in that case would it not be better to simply focus more on power over time, rather than on-hit damage? The problem a lot of players take with the ult's crit/on-hit damage is that, not matter which way you ~~stab~~ slice it, it provides upfront burst, which is the core reason why he's felt unhealthy for so long. Perhaps bonus Ferocity generation might not be the best for his pacing, but the new armor shred looks like the perfect way for him to not only have more target-exclusive damage in a less front-loaded manner, but also supply a baseline contribution for his team even if he is behind. I don't personally think cosmetic damage is really necessary on a champion who already has strong basic attack damage, or at least an auto reset, but allowing Rengar to Colossus Smash his ult target (and perhaps the shred could also reduce the target's flat MR, to accommodate AP Rengar) feels like a good way to augment his killing power without having to front-load more raw burst. Additionally, giving Rengar this kind of utility could also potentially increase his tactical options, so that even against tightly-packed teams he could still open up another target for his own team to take out more quickly.
: [CLOSED] PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Victorious Graves!
Feedback on the skin: * The hair is excellent. * Destiny's animations are smooth and dynamic, which I like. * The shoulder and the gun both look plastic, likely because both are too light and have no sheen. This feels like a step down from the splash art, which showed what looked like a pretty heavy wrought gold/brass pauldron. * Similarly, the purple on the base skin is far too light, and looks almost pink, which doesn't at all fit with the color scheme of previous Victorious skins. Others have mentioned this too, but the deep blue and gold Chroma (i.e. the 3v3 skin) a would be much better-suited as the main skin. * The backing animation carries very little pomp compared to the previous Victorious skins. The rose petal explosion doesn't seem to come from the discus at all, which feels like a missed opportunity. The pedestal also looks like a bucket, and the fact that it comes up so late in the animation makes it look like an afterthought. Suggestions: * Darken the purple and gold on the current main skin, and aim to give a metallic sheen to the metal components, including the pauldron, the gold components on Destiny, the sash on the cape, the cape's trim, and the leg armor. I feel the Flex and Solo/Duo Chromas achieve this much better, for example. * Swap the main skin with the 3v3 skin, as blue is the main color for the Victorious line, not purple. * Give Graves a much more grandiose pedestal from the very beginning of his backing animation, have him shoot the discus from there, and have the rose petals come from the discus itself. If necessary, make Graves shoot the discus directly above himself to have this and preserve the vertical petal shower.
: it does because at the end of the day, league of legend sis a game about damage, whether you are dealing or mitigating it. Without damage, you can't stop/clear a minion wave. spot to use her abilities unlike most under mages.
Rakan can't really adequately stop a minion wave anyway, and would still be able to deal damage with his autoattacks. Again, I proposed buffing his autoattack power instead if that is what his ability damage is for, as it would allow him to poke/trade well and last-hit more easily, while retaining more overall control on how he impacts minions when going in.
: While i agree with you to an extent, no champion should technically ever be 100% reliant on an ally and removing damage results in a completely non-autonomous champion.
I don't think removing Rakan's ability damage would make him non-autonomous, as it's so small as to be irrelevant even now. All of his abilities still function the same regardless of whether or not they have damage, so if he's dependent on allies, it's because of his kit and not his numbers. If he does need some level of autonomous fighting power, I feel it would be better to buff his auto damage than to spread what little damage he can have across his ability set.
: twice as many heals, maxing shield means you have to sit next to an ally 100% of the time, q lets you do stuff even when not right next to an ally - like when you roam / ward
I mean, Rakan is designed to be a support, but ultimately his ability damage doesn't really let him do much alone. All of his abilities are useful independent of their damage, and when he's on his own, he's better off using his tools to heal himself and escape, rather than fight. If nothing else, better autoattack damage would serve him more when engaging in combat.
: Lethality + AP
No, Lethality does not interact at all with magic resistance. Some mages might be picking mixed lethality and magic pen runes for more autoattack harass potential early on, but if they're picking pure lethality, they're making a mistake.
: You max Q first, the cooldown halves from ranks 1 to 5 Removing damage would be a bad idea, have him low damage is good, Rakan is in a pretty good spot, but I would go with the range buff to Q because it does always feel like it is a tad short
> [{quoted}](name=Stacona,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=0vTAuuKE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-05-03T16:01:52.045+0000) > > Removing damage would be a bad idea Why tho? Does Rakan need damage to function?
: additive slow means there are no diminishing returns, if rank 16 ult goes up to 96% slow for 1.5 seconds then it basically roots the target at that point, but it is an on-target slow and not ramping up over the duration so max stacks are hard to use unless using it for peeling which is why I think Rammus will be a great support with these changes (he is almost there now, but the requirement to level W and not having an ultimate hurts him, both of those are removed with this kit with 1 point w and max it last and Rammus has a real ultimate for once; plus more knock-back and slow Q and able to focus points into E; plus Rammus procs stoneborn pact on everything, bonus health being really good with his shield) Rammus Q doesn't get soft capped, there are movement speed buffs that ignore the soft cap, level 18 it ramps to 235% movement speed, something like that, so if he had 400 movespeed he gets around 1200 total by the final tick. The W slow makes it a real reason to end the shield early, I like that element, and Rammus makes sense and should have a majour tank steroid like this. E AS steroid to more attack speed is simply, it costs mana and you need to manage something. **** I would rather have have the thornmail as low damage as possible, preferably removed completely at some point. Overall Rammus should be played as support with these changes, which gets him played, granted he is a tank support so it makes him weak early - but his peel is pretty insane.
All slows and movement speed boosts are affected by movement speed caps, which includes Rammus's Powerball and his new ult slow. When a champion like Thresh or Zilean slows you for 99%, it's not actually slowing you by that much, because the hard lower cap on movement speed is 110, meaning you cannot go below that value by being slowed. The same would apply to Rammus's 96% slow. My issue with E is that "needing to manage something" doesn't really come up. For sure, you can extend your bonus AS time in the jungle by timing your W after your E, but otherwise in fights you're just gonna QEWR regardless. If the intent is to encourage some new play around timing, there are better ways to do that than an attack speed steroid on a tank.
: [5/2] Rakan Feedback
I agree with this: out of all the supports out there, Rakan especially should not have much damage, because he already has so much mobility, on top of plenty of crowd control and utility, that giving him damage risks truly overloading him. In fact, I'd say this could be the opportunity for an experiment in support design, and it might be worth seeing how Rakan would fare if his abilities dealt no damage at all: his W is already valuable for its knockup, and his R for its charm, so no major issue there, and his Q is valuable for its heal, and is generally leveled up last, which means its damage never ends up being really noticeable at any point in the game. While generally it's recommended to give a champion at least some ability damage, I think it might be advantageous on supports, for a number of reasons: for one, taking some of their power budget out of effects they're not meant to be good at (i.e. damage) would allow them to receive better options more relevant to their playstyle, and taking out damage on their abilities, particularly their AoE crowd control, would prevent them from accidentally last-hitting minions, which messes up both their item progression and their allies' gold income. If the champion in question needs damage, it would likely be better to put more of it on their basic attacks, which are not only essential to harassing as a support, but would also allow them to feel meatier in general on supports, whose basic attacks feel generally ineffective at all stages of the game.
: [5/2] Rammus Feedback
From testing: 1. Yes, Powerball and Defensive Ball Curl still cancel each other upon activation. The tooltip for that is no longer present, however, and so likely needs to be re-added. 2. About 99% sure the slow stacks additively, though diminishing returns on slow values makes it a bit harder to evaluate. 3. Yes, the AS buff effectively persists as long as you have DBC or Tremors up. There are a lot of things I'm a fan of in this mini-rework. I'm a fan of Rammus's Q max speed scaling up to ridiculous values later on, though a lot of it is eaten up by the soft upper cap on movement speed. Having his passive deal bonus on-hit damage, rather than grant bonus AD, makes sense, though ultimately that kind of passive still doesn't have much gameplay. I like having his W amplify his resists, and the slow adds a degree of strategy and counterplay that he did not have before, even if the passive amp is overly finicky (decreasing Rammus's base AD and increasing his base passive by 50% would allow him to deal pretty much the exact same damage, without needing an additional steroid), and even though Thornmail effects themselves aren't especially interactive. The E is good, but as with the passive amp on W, I find the bonus attack speed questionable, and think it would be simpler to just increase Rammus's AS growth, as the bonus tends to persistent enough as to be always on. I like the slow on the ult and its amp on structures, and will gladly accept a sacrifice to Rammus's damage if it means he gets to have more counterplay and more of an impact in teamfights. **TL;DR:** These new changes look good and efficient for a low-scope project, though I agree Rammus could use a full VGU eventually. In the meantime, though, I think there are a few things that could be cleaned up on his current changelist: reducing Rammus's base AD by about 6, and reducing his AD growth by about 1.5 (which should give him a growth of 2), but increasing his passive on-hit damage by 50%, would give him approximately the same base damage, and the same reflect damage on his W without needing an on-hit steroid, and increasing his attack speed growth by about 2 points (to a rather large 4%) would give him pretty much the same gameplay as his E boost, without the need for a persistent steroid.
: Galio Feedback Thread
I'm not a fan at all of the direction taken for Galio on this update, and wrote a long rant about that on [a separate thread](http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/ipsaw2z1-my-galio-feedbackrant-what-isnt-a-galio), but here's some feedback on his current state: * **Colossal Smash:** * Feels good to use, but could use an AP ratio. Bonus damage rather than a total attack modifier could also avoid having it scale with AD, which doesn't feel appropriate on him. * Not entirely sure, but I might have last-hit an allied minion at very low health with its AoE. Will test further. * **Winds of War** feels tremendously fun. I have some slight doubts about its max health damage and DoT, but landing it properly feels amazing. Congratulations on this one. * **Shield of Durand's** damage reduction isn't easy to appreciate directly: having Galio heal for a portion of the damage he took while charging upon release could make the defensive bonus feel more impactful and closer to his old Bulwark, while also synergizing with Spirit Visage. * **Justice Punch:** * Feels a tad sluggish and short-ranged right now. Will likely get used to it in the future, though. * I also think I may have had my dash stopped upon impacting minions, and I don't know if that's intended. * **Hero's Entrance:** * As with Shield of Durand, the damage reduction doesn't feel too visible on my target. Again, healing them upon impact could feel better and open up some slight synergy with Athene's Unholy Grail. * Perhaps this just comes from inexperience, but I don't think the bonus knockup at the center adds that much gameplay, as my ult positioning is mostly out of my own control. As a side note, **Galio's silhouette carries a lot of similarities to Aatrox's:** both are top-heavy winged walking champions with horned heads, and the fact that both champions have dashes with knockups risks creating confusion among players less familiar with either champion in a fast-paced fight. I have some very strong feelings against Galio's new kit and how it relates to his old self, and I urge you to read that other thread if you haven't already, but his kit so far plays and functions well, with his Q being a personal favorite. I'll test him a bit more to confirm the bugs I may have spotted.
: Yeah on my main I made it to diamond 5 using only Galio.. and now I gotta relearn a new champ that's nothing like the old one.. for the most part. His old and new passive are pretty trash tier. But atkeast his old passive gave him lvl 1 power and further power with w. Also all of his abilities were very projected which is something riot claims they like. He was a very balanced champ with highs and lows but was 'boring' although I found him fun. So they made him into this unnecessarily flashy champ to appease the kids playing.. as a business it makes sense... from a balance and champion with a Unique perspective... no not really. His healing on being hit was the most unique part of his kit. We had an aoe CC ult with amu. Nocturne has pretty much the same e. He was an Ap/Mr version of rammus with his passive, although with crappy ratios for both his skills. So his 50% MR the passed through a .6 AP ratio... Galio had the 50% dmg reduction as part of his out. So they just shifted into a less effective version of his old ult on low CD and got rid of w all together even though it was tankier and more projected when/what was happening. You can tell when new Galio has his dmg red by the bubble.. but not so much allies... I just miss Galio so much already.
> [{quoted}](name=I only galio,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=ipsaw2z1,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-08T04:26:23.515+0000) > > He was a very balanced champ with highs and lows but was &#x27;boring&#x27; although I found him fun. > So they made him into this unnecessarily flashy champ That's the thing: Old Galio is definitely boring, and needed to be more interesting, but "more interesting" cannot only mean having dashes and knockups. We have plenty of champions who succeed at being more strategic without being boring, and who can make cool plays without needing too much of what everyone else has. Bard is a great example of this, as are Jhin and Vel'Koz. I feel Galio could've remained a back line tank with lots of ally utility and still become a healthy, fun and interesting champion.
: Oh and to seperate another quick thing I like from your post from MY rant. I also prefer righteous gust over winds of war.
It was actually your post that made me realize that, and before then I had not even paid attention to the new name. It's weird that, despite Galio receiving completely new visuals just to look like a Demacian statue from that one artwork piece a while back, he ended up losing a lot of his Demacian identity in the process just to end up closer to the likes of Vi, Zac and Sion, with the switch from Righteous Gust to Winds of War being just one example.
: OH also from play the Ult does not save a Ally to often. Its Damage Reduction NOT a Shield. So if they are really low (say 100 HP) and you ult them. They still are going to die. Feels bad in that case.
I agree, the damage reduction isn't too great. I get that it's meant to favor front liners, but DR works better when you have a lot of health to spare, whereas Galio's new ult looks best for peeling and counter-engaging when an ally's at risk of dying. The protection effect in itself is really not easy to appreciate, and just giving the target Galio's magic shield instead could've been better. In the end, though, both a damage reduction buff and a shield would kind of step on Shen's ult niche, which shouldn't need to happen at all, particularly since Galio lost almost all of his ally utility. If Idol of Durand were given his new ult's dash, for example, it would've likely made him a lot more functional overall, without needing to change his kit so drastically.
: i agree with most of this (although it was a little lengthy and didnt read ALL of it, sorry) he is an awkward mix of filling what fell flat last time while throwing away what worked last time, leaving him just as unfulfilling. He does just as much dmg in his basic spells but way less for his ult. His ult looks awesome but it very lack luster as a spell, it invisibly helps an ally (you know how they hate invisible power) and it does 1/3rd the damage the ult used to and is just as unreliable while much more unreliable for Galio himself. His e has very short range and seems thrown in there, jsut because he is melee His Q is wonderful His W is suprisingly lack luster; gets so slow for little reward and his old W made him way tankier for a lot less risk. so overall Old Passive: 3/10 New Passive: 3/10 Old Q: 5/10 New Q: 8/10 Old W: 9/10 New W: 5/10 Old E: 3/10 New E: 4/10 Old Ult: 7/10 New Ult: 2/10 Visually a lot has improved. gameplay wise...cmon?
> [{quoted}](name=I only galio,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=ipsaw2z1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-08T03:18:43.689+0000) > > i agree with most of this (although it was a little lengthy and didnt read ALL of it, sorry) Thank you for your feedback! No worries at all, either, as the OP is likely a bit too wordy. Judging by your username, you main Galio, which I think makes your opinion on this especially important. > [{quoted}](name=I only galio,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=ipsaw2z1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-08T03:18:43.689+0000) > > it invisibly helps an ally (you know how they hate invisible power) This I very much resonate with in particular, because damage reduction is not a mechanic with good visual feedback at all, and the fact that it's just been added to not one, but two kits back to back, perplexes me. There are quite a few ways of making a champion mitigate damage that carry much more clarity, namely healing, shielding, untargetability/stasis, spell shields, block/dodge effects and anti-projectile objects, and it might've been better to make Galio heal for a portion of the damage he absorbed upon activating the taunt, which would've also been closer to his old Bulwark, instead of giving him Warwick's damage reduction on charge-up.
Rioter Comments
: Warwick Update Feedback Thread
Three criticisms/suggestions so far: * The damage reduction on E doesn't feel like the best manner to convey durability, especially to newer players. A shield instead might be much more visible to everyone, especially if it has a health scaling (players learning how to Diver would be pushed naturally towards building health and AD just by looking at their tooltips). * The healing on Q and R should probably just naturally be a part of Eternal Hunger, since his current setup basically means Warwick heals himself from every bit of damage he can deal. * Not necessarily a criticism, but what is meant to be Warwick's intended weakness? From what I understand, he's great at initiating and cleaning up, and not so good in the middle, but it also feels like he could be liable to snowball excessively if he gets to skip that middle part too quickly. The damage reduction on E also makes him resistant to burst, which seems like it should be a strong counter to his sustain-based durability. Other than that, the new kit flows amazingly well. I'm surprised by how much of his old abilities have been preserved, especially because all of them mesh really well with each other now. Specifics I really, really liked on my first playthrough: * The Blood Hunt + Infinite Duress combo feels incredible. Going at such high speeds into a slightly unpredictable dash feels like Warwick is on the verge of losing control, which makes landing the ult all the more thrilling. * Infinite Duress in general feels great: there's still the possibility of jumping in at any moment, but it feels so much more interesting to use, and there's a ton of theorycrafting potential with how it interacts with movement speed. The skid as he misses his target is also a really nice touch. * In general, I love how Warwick's new kit gives the player constant choice between power and reliability. His core playstyle is still simple, but there's a lot more to do, and many more interesting options than with his current kit. * Playing Warwick in lane feels surprisingly good, and his W attack speed boost makes for a really fun and organic last-hitting minigame. It might even be a little strong, as his Q can heal for a lot, but it definitely feels like he'll have several different viable positional options. Overall, I really like how Warwick plays thus far. His gameplay feels simple to understand, and it's still relatively easy to get good results with him, but there's a lot more nuance to how he plays. Congratulations on the great work you've done thus far!
: Draft/Blind are rarely simultaneously enabled and even so they present entirely different ways to play the game that should be forced on someone. Like playing Blinds and not getting your role. Stripping people of their PBE accounts probably takes just as much work, just by a separate group of people and I don't personally consider the act of banning champions that we're supposed to be testing to drastic as to permanently strip them of their PBE accounts (And btw that number of people would be extremely high) and instead just disable banning of them. Custom requires 9 friends. Good luck with that on PBE and Bots isn't a method of real practice.
Custom games do not require even a single additional player if you so choose, bar the occasional minimum player limits that are imposed at the beginning of every new patch cycle. It is also not particularly difficult to assemble a full lobby for a custom game on PBE unless there's nobody on at the time, since you should easily have more than 9 friends, and if you don't you can just ask players to join you by going on the two main chats. Not getting your role in Blind is also not particularly distressing, unless you want to specifically test one champion only. Bots are also perfectly adequate for testing, unless you're trying to finely assess the balance of a champion (which PBE is notoriously terrible for, so I wouldn't recommend it).
: But as I said, *huge* problems like that don't last very long. Riot disables them on their own within a day. If we can't test the champs out because they're constantly banned, how are we going to find out about things like Singed's Q bug?
People banning recently reworked champions doesn't stay a _huge_ problem for that long either. If the problem is so persistent that it impedes testing, it might be better for Riot to just strip the problem players of their PBE accounts, than for them to implement an entirely new feature that might drastically amplify the negative impact of some of their coding/balancing errors. Ranked/draft isn't the only way to play Summoner's Rift, either, so if you really want to make sure you get to play a champion, it might just be easier to switch to Blind/bots/customs.
: Would it be possible for the New Abssyal Sceptor Aura to be coded with true damage mages in mind.
The original aura reduced MR, so it didn't really empower true damage either, and since true damage is completely immune to damage modifiers unless otherwise specified, a blanket ability damage increase wouldn't amplify it unless you special-cased true damage as well. Since true damage is naturally better at dealing with enemies who are ahead than magic damage, due to it ignoring resists, and any true damage-dealing mage deals mainly magic damage, Abyssal Scepter would still be useful even on them.
: If a champion is broken that badly they disable them though. Also your winrate doesn't matter on PBE. It's fucking PBE.
I completely agree, win rate doesn't matter on PBE, which is why it makes no sense to ban champions simply because you want to win. However, PBE is also a place to test in order to generate feedback, and if you have a champion or any other game feature that's seriously distorting any testing you might want to do, that's not going to help either. When Cinderhulk was first released on PBE, for example, its burn values were accidentally ten times what they were meant to be. Sure, that's hilarious, but people who legitimately wanted to test other concurrent changes had to go into custom games, and mutually agree not to buy the item, which basically amounted to "banning" the item from play. If a champion were to do the same thing, as was recently the case with Singed and his Q dealing quad damage, banning them would be the right move, as otherwise they would distort testing to such a degree that the feedback it would generate would have very little value.
: Make New Champs Or Reworks UNBANNABLE From Now On. Please
Banning new or recently reworked champions can be useful if they have game-breaking bugs and Riot hasn't disabled them yet. If Rengar's Roar could be cast without a cooldown, for example, which was more or less the case yesterday, and a tester picked him just to abuse that bug in a game and bully everyone else, then that would ruin testing for many more people. Similarly, if a champion happens to be massively unbalanced one way or the other, that can also skew testing for everyone else, so bans can be helpful in those cases. Ultimately, though, I agree that PBE is the absolute last place for the standard Ranked competitive mentality, and the people who carry that to a testing server may not be fit to test.
: I disagree with part of what you said, assassins are meant to counter damage-dealers, forcing them to build defensive stats when their kits work best with damage stats. Saying that it gets "countered by armor stacking" is silly, because only tanks or bruisers are going to stack any armor, and they are not an assassin's target. I think it is a healthy stat that is much better than flat penetration. However, yes, it does lack clarity to a severe degree. Saying you have "15 Lethality" means different things depending on who you are attacking, which is difficult to convey precisely in a simple manner that can be understood in just a glance. But, I think a short description of Lethality on any Lethality item, explaining in very simple terms "It makes you do more damage against opponents with less armor" is good enough. Any player who does not know what Lethality is will be able to read that and know what the stat does, even if they don't know the exact numbers behind it.
> [{quoted}](name=Johnny Badmeme,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=RYuvnjbT,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2016-10-19T23:56:37.310+0000) > > I disagree with part of what you said, assassins are meant to counter damage-dealers, forcing them to build defensive stats when their kits work best with damage stats. Saying that it gets &quot;countered by armor stacking&quot; is silly, because only tanks or bruisers are going to stack any armor, and they are not an assassin&#x27;s target. I think it is a healthy stat that is much better than flat penetration. I agree, assassins counter damage-dealers, but they do that already with their kit, and raw AD already gets countered by armor, so Lethality doesn't really make this new contribution. If the stat were to let assassins deal more damage to squishies ahead of them in levels, and thereby catch up better, that would be great, but as it stands Lethality doesn't provide enough of a variable damage amp to do that, even with zero bonus resists. It's certainly healthier than flat pen, but comes at such a cost in clarity that I don't think it's a stat worth having.
: Katarina Rework: ultimate out of place?
I'd rather keep the channeling portion of the ultimate, since it carries interesting gameplay and counterplay (there's genuine tension in prolonging the channel, and enemies can counter with disables), but I do think not making it interact with Daggers would be a wasted opportunity. The Grievous Wounds effect also likely needs to go, as it never feels that impactful. If I were to go about it, I'd keep the current channel, but instead have it lay down a certain amount of daggers over the duration, based on the position of nearby enemies. That way, she could lay down her ult and, if she sets it up right, could follow up with massive Shunpo madness.
: How about "katarina can cast shunpo while channeling her ultimate"
I don't think that would be appropriate, since the point to her ultimate is that she's standing in the exact same spot for a full two-and-a-half-second channel. The gameplay to that is that enemies can either walk away or disable her, so giving her mobility in the middle of it reduces that counterplay significantly.
: [Assassins] Katarina Feedback Thread
Katarina feels significantly more interesting to play. Her Dagger mechanic makes re-learning her a bit difficult, since she uses different rotations now, but overall it feels like she can do so much more. I've yet to really test the details of Shunpo's additional movement, but I've consistently felt like I've appeared exactly where I wanted to with the ability. Her W feels more like an "acquired taste" ability, in that it doesn't feel immediately useful at first, but then opens up a lot of cool plays and outplays in fights, and good waveclear out of combat. Her Q dagger drop might need to be adjusted, though, as currently there are some situations where it seems to bounce way too far: it's great against fleeing enemies, and decent in lane trades, but if you throw this at an enemy that's moving in any other direction, there's too much distance for it to feel any good. I feel the bounce should perhaps be made more dynamic so that it ricochets in the direction of the enemy's movement, at a speed proportionate to their own. With the Dagger mechanic in place, though, not implementing it on R feels like a missed opportunity. Obviously, adding more daggers would require damage nerfs somewhere, but I feel it might be cool for Kat to lay down a ton of daggers for her to Shunpo around like crazy in fights. The Grievous Wounds on the ult also feels really antiquated, and this is the perfect occasion to replace the effect with something else.
: Lethality Info
Having flat pen scale with the enemy's level is an improvement, but the Lethality stat also fails to provide real clarity: since the amount of armor pen you get varies with each target, the number indicated on the relevant items feels arbitrary. The average player is going to be unlikely to understand exactly what 15 or 20 Lethality means, and the complex relationship between Lethality and armor pen, and armor pen and damage amplification, means it's impossible to see at a glance exactly what impact the stat will have, unlike stats like attack damage, attack speed, cooldown reduction, etc. I understand that assassins need their own distinct itemization, and Lethality helps with that, but in the end I don't think the stat, or flat armor pen, should really exist. Making assassins dependent on a stat that gets extra-countered by stacking armor will inevitably make them more binary, and personally I'd rather build more raw AD instead. I feel it would be better if AD assassin items focused on AD, cooldown reduction and movement speed, which the new items partially achieve by giving out-of-combat MS.
: Totally, his damage before was W+Q and then 3 basic attacks while R was active (about 4s), and now that damage was spread out to W+Q and then E (about 7s) so it could feel less impactful even if the amount is lower. The only concern I would have about health ratios is that kinda pushes Alistar into the same problem Zyra would have if her AP ratios were high and base were low: Alistar will be incentivized to go to a lane where he has better gold income (probably top) because his base will be bad to be impacful as a support (lower income) and ratios will be health based (will require gold to get health items). I spent a lot of time debating within Riot about removing the W+Q combo from him or even putting a higher cost to it (for example: could we make Pulverize even stronger - bigger AoE + damage + cc - and turn it into his ultimate, gating how often he combos?). In the end, I believe that it was the right call for now to keep the W+Q the way it is and strip a little power from it (remove 0.5s stun) to keep him familiar and consistent to what Alistar was in a way.
> [{quoted}](name=Shin Kazuo,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=un8LUXyg,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-10-19T04:18:35.437+0000) > > The only concern I would have about health ratios is that kinda pushes Alistar into the same problem Zyra would have if her AP ratios were high and base were low: Alistar will be incentivized to go to a lane where he has better gold income (probably top) because his base will be bad to be impactful as a support (lower income) and ratios will be health based (will require gold to get health items). I agree, Alistar being a support first and foremost should be a priority, and I wouldn't want to see him get shoved into a solo lane just because of number changes, either. At the same time, Alistar feels like one of the very few supports whose kit doesn't scale beyond leveling up: tank supports like Leona, Taric, Braum and Tahm Kench all have health and/or resistance ratios on their kits, and Thresh has his own scaling via souls. Alistar technically scales in that his ult magnifies any tankiness he itemizes for, but beyond that, his abilities all feel just about as effective whether they're at rank 1 or at rank 5, even with the reduced cooldowns and increased base damage. I imagine that it'll always be difficult to let supports scale with items when they're balanced around their own island of particular gold and experience gains, but surely there must be a happy medium between his current state and a potential solo-only Alistar? Tanky supports are occasionally criticized for being a bit too reliable in their contributions, too, at least when compared to more AP-dependent supports, and Ali above all is probably one of the most reliable supports in the hands of pro players. > [{quoted}](name=Shin Kazuo,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=un8LUXyg,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-10-19T04:18:35.437+0000) > > I spent a lot of time debating within Riot about removing the W+Q combo from him or even putting a higher cost to it (for example: could we make Pulverize even stronger - bigger AoE + damage + cc - and turn it into his ultimate, gating how often he combos?). In the end, I believe that it was the right call for now to keep the W+Q the way it is and strip a little power from it (remove 0.5s stun) to keep him familiar and consistent to what Alistar was in a way. Thank you for looking into this! As much as I'd like to see Alistar weaned off of his WQ combo eventually, I agree that doing so now would probably require more adjustments further down the line, which would go beyond the scope of his current changes. In the far future, though, if Alistar gets the full VGU treatment and all, would you personally see him with or without that combo? On one hand, it kinda pulls a lot out of his power budget, treads on Malphite's toes, and muddles his role as a Warden a little by giving him Vanguard-level initiation; on the other, it's become a staple among his fans, feels satisfying to pull off successfully, and encourages him to be more aggressive, which is always good. Ultimately, what do you think Alistar does/should do best, and how would he go about doing it?
: [6.22 Alistar changes] Context and feedback thread
After testing these changes, it feels like they affect Alistar's play pattern pretty significantly, and positively, too. His new E feels really fun to use, and truly does give him more things to do in combat, and having his heal auto-cast and auto-level makes it much less of a hassle. I feel like he plays much more smoothly all around, and his kit feels much tighter and more fun to use (it also feels like he runs into mana issues less often, which is good too). At this point, though, my main complaint is that it feels like Alistar's damage feels really diluted, even though he can deal quite a bit of damage, and he can't really empower his kit via the items he typically buys. I'd personally be happy to see health ratios on his damage and/or heal, even if the base amounts end up getting reduced. I also think he should probably have his damage concentrated, at least on his E: the total damage is pretty huge, but it's spread over multiple instances across a very long duration, and so feels invisible. A more minor complaint is that his W + Q combo still occasionally feels a bit fiddly to use, and the combo is still a mini-Malphite ult that's taking up a lot of his power budget, but at least now it feels like there are more occasions where Ali would want to use either ability on its own merits, since he feels more useful over prolonged fights than before. Overall, this is a great set of changes that I feel have made Alistar significantly more fun to play.
: [Assassins] Talon feedback thread
Answers to the main questions: * The new E really feels amazing to use. There's perhaps a liiiiittle bit of a learning curve for navigating some of the wider walls and finding the bonus vault spots on continuous walls, but overall the ability feels really easy and natural to use, and appropriate for Talon's character. I haven't encountered any bugs, but I think the graphic for already-vaulted terrain needs to be improved a bit, as it's sometimes difficult to make out where it ends and where "free" terrain begins. * On a larger scale, I definitely feel like I can reach targets much faster, though the large rank 1 E terrain cooldown sometimes makes it feel like some routes are blocked way longer than they should be. Within fights, R feels alright, but R + Q feels a bit clunky. All else held equal, I think it might feel better if Noxian Diplomacy made Talon vault over his target to the other side, if only for his close-range strike, and his R blades always converged on his location. * I'm surprised by how much damage Talon gets to deal with just his basic abilities, especially his W. His innate damage also feels extremely powerful. However, his ult damage feels a little weaker by comparison. Overall, I do feel empowered and capable of dealing tremendous burst, but his ult no longer feels like it factors as much into his maximum potential damage combo, which might be a good thing. * I tested on bot games, so this might be flawed feedback, but I felt slightly weaker early game, very strong mid game, and fairly strong late. I had a significant item lead and went for a full Lethality build, yet ended up killing tanky and squishy enemies in very similar amounts of time. I was able to roam throughout the entire game, and felt quite strong because of it, though I kept E at rank 1 until level 13, which limited my roaming potential through the enemy jungle a fair bit. I'm also curious as to why Talon's passive only works on champions and epic monsters, and not just all large monsters: is there a specific reason behind this restriction? It really feels like Talon has the potential to be a great and healthy jungler, and letting him use his innate against all jungle camps would give him the early clearing speed he'd want.
: Dragon, Baron, and Rift Herald are jungle monsters, yet his passive doesn't work on them. His passive cleary states, "**_Clicking on a jungle monster_** creates a grove which grows over X seconds." It's a major issue. Even the League Of legends wiki say they're jungle monsters. What gives? http://i.imgur.com/v1KizPa.jpg
Ivern's passive is specific to non-epic monsters. Perhaps the tooltip could be clearer on the grove component, but his passive not working on epic monsters (i.e. monsters in the stationary river camps) is intended.
: Ivern Bug Report Thread
Daisy!'s rank-up tooltip is incorrect -- it lists her base resistances as 30 / 50 / 70, when they're 20 / 60 / 120.
: Why Q? What if I want a point in the E?
It's not really about choice, it's about finding a place for that extra point that makes sense. It works particularly well for his Q, which at its core is just a pure nuke (plus it's the basic ability you'll be maxing first), since it means its base damage scales a little less harshly in lane, during which he's intended to be relatively weak.
: Ryze Champion Update Feedback and Discussion
What was the reasoning behind the AP-to-mana bonus? Aside from the immediate effect of allowing more spell casts, it also feels like this very roundabout way of making all of Ryze's abilities scale more with AP when coupled with the rest of his innate, which I imagine pushes down his visible AP scalings somewhat in compensation. Doesn't this kind of math-y passive sort of go against clarity as a result?
: MYMU - Zyra discussion
I really like most of these changes. The new passive feels great and the new Q works really well with her seed spawns. My issues with the new kit so far: * **She still feels like she deals too much burst for a plant-based mage.** This boils down to balance more than design, and we all know how good PBE is at assessing balance, but she feels like she deals a tiny bit less damage than she should early game, and too much in a single ability rotation late-game. * **Her W does not feel good.** It was never Zyra's most interesting ability, but here it also feels redundant when she already has a passive to spawn seeds for her, and the fractional health on her modified-health plants isn't really appealing either (why should Zyra's plants gain more health when she'll be spawning more and more of them anyway?). The most recent changes to the ability just look like they'll mess up consistency between seeds, too. I understand keeping active seeds is good for those who want a measure of control over their plant placement, but I really think her new passive is good enough to handle that by itself (there's probably also more interesting gameplay to slightly less reliable plant spawns). She really needs a new, interesting active here, even if it comes at a cost in power elsewhere. You've done an amazing job with Zyra. Her plant damage feels really satisfying, and she has much more area control now. With a new W, she'd likely feel perfect.
Rioter Comments
: Adding more spell vamp items doesn't actually solve the issue - as the issue is that we can't seem to get any particular incarnation of spell vamp to be bought on *more* than one champion at a time. It's not how many spell vamp items are bought - it's, given a spell vamp item, how many champions can it serve. If an item can only serve a single champion. Basically, a core issue with Spell Vamp in the item system is that because mages are so different and the properties of their sustain is so different - that you basically just have to individually design spell vamp items that suit a specific pattern. Lifesteal is fairly constrained in terms of what can apply it and the rules are somewhat consistent. However, that's just hand tailoring items for champions after a certain point - which isn't really desirable for the item system.
What about the reverse -- what if spell vamp items were designed in such a way that they'd provide the same healing regardless of which spell was being used? So, for example, instead of the current model, you could have your next spell heal you for a fixed amount on a cooldown. Since bursty and DPS spellcasters would want different kinds of sustain, you could also have an alternative that could have each spell heal for a fixed amount with no cooldown. If there are issues in lane with this, perhaps the sustain should start out really poor on those items until you leave lane (e.g. by having nonlinear numbers, AP scalings, etc.), and if there's a problem of free healing against minions perhaps that sustain could be made exclusive against enemy champions or large units. I feel there are a lot of AP champions who could make use of some kind of sustain, especially Battle mages, it's just that the current implementation never lets them get what they want because it needs to be adjusted against so many abuse cases, e.g. massive AoE and Vladimir.
: [Planned - 6.9] Mana x MP/5 x AP x MR Item Pass [Updated - 4/11/2016]
Does mana as a system really need itemization? As in, do we even need mana/mana regen items? What would a world with zero mana itemization look like? None of this is intended to discredit your work, by the way. The item plan you've posted gives mana a ton of gameplay and lets it fuel more than just a champion's abilities in interesting ways, which is something mana champions as a whole needed for years. Hextech Rocket Belt looks like it would be a nightmare on live Annie, but then again, Annie's receiving changes that will be shipped at the same time too. Another question: regarding Abyssal Scepter, what changed since the last iceboxed iteration? Previously, there was discussion on splitting the item into an option for AP bruisers and another for mages: what was the result of that line of work? Are tanky AP fighters still getting a new MR item?
: ─░tems
Has happened to me too every game I checked. What's weird is that the items being shown are pretty haphazard, so I'll often end up seeing part of a champion's build but not their full inventory, with some disappearing and reappearing seemingly at random. I'm not sure how to reproduce specific items going in or out of view, but entering any game should produce the bug itself.
: Jhin Gameplay & Feel Feedback!
Answers to the three main questions in the OP: 1. The reloading mechanic feels great, even like a kind of blessing in disguise, since it lets me throw out all of his spells at once without interfering with his attacks, in spite of my terrible sense of timing. It's very clearly understandable and well-indicated, mainly thanks to the visuals and sound on the fourth shot. The one thing that doesn't feel entirely smooth is that Jhin seems to stutter-step if you try to attack someone while reloading. 2. From my very limited experience, the most satisfying way to use Lotus traps is to lay them under enemies just after rooting them with Deadly Flourish. 3. The zoom out feels great, though I'd personally prefer to zoom back onto Jhin, since my targets often end up being either far out of reach or dead by the time I've finished shooting. Perhaps it could be worth trying to remember the player's camera position before the zoom out, and zoom in back there afterwards? Other stuff: 4. Dancing Grenade tends to feel a little awkward when it bounces back towards Jhin, imo, especially when waveclearing, and I think it'd feel more natural for it to slightly prefer going forward, so that it can more easily make the jump from the front to the back of the minion wave. 5. This is probably not directly a problem with Jhin, but as a theorycraft-y kind of player, I feel uncomfortable building attack speed on him, even though it's inevitable to get "necessary" amounts of crit. I should probably try out some more builds, since I'm making a lot of assumptions here based on other marksmen that might not apply to Jhin, but attack speed just doesn't feel right as part of his build. All in all, though, Jhin feels amazing to play, every aspect of his kit lends itself to satisfaction, and his ult provides a kind of tension and power I haven't felt anywhere else in League. I can't say I've played him with any significant amount of depth, but even in the first few games he clicks really well, and there's a ton of potential for mastery that's clearly laid out for him (sniping with W at max range, for example).
: I've playtested both AP Corki and AP Kog. Both still felt awesome to me. AP Caitlyn is dead unfortunately (she does have much cooler choices in the AD/AS/Crit space though). AP MF I am not sufficiently familiar with to comment on.
Perhaps this is something to ask on the other marksman changelist, but how will AP Tristana turn out after these changes? She hasn't really survived her last (otherwise awesome) update, and while her pre-reworked E playstyle was super unhealthy, right now it feels like she could be allowed to kill specific targets in a single well-executed combo, as she has to set it up over a much larger time period and put herself at much more risk. Obviously, it isn't and will likely never be her main build, but if you ever took the time to look at AP Trist, do you think she could be allowed to be strong, and what would she need/what does she have to achieve that?
: Mordekaiser Change Summary & Feedback Thread
Here are my thoughts from the few games I played with him: * His Q is pretty cool. I've only had a few occasions where I managed to land the third hit on an enemy champion, but when I did, I usually won the fight against them. This is a really awesome change. * With that said, the ability seems to have a few kinks. There's no animation for the first empowered attack, at least for skins (poor Pentakill {{champion:82}}), though that's something that other people mentioned here already. There's also this indicator for his empowered attacks that appears in front of him (2!! and 3!!!), which may or may not be intentional. The ability also has weird interactions with structures: the hits consume themselves on turrets without applying their bonus damage, and with Q active Morde repeatedly performs the empowered animation on inhibitors and the Nexus, but cannot damage either at all. Perhaps the bonus damage shouldn't apply to structures (then again, Morde puts himself at a lot of risk when taking down towers, so perhaps he deserves to bring them down quickly), but if so then he should still be able to attack them normally and not have his Q empowerment interact at all. * I'm really not sold on the new W. The new passive is artificial, not as visible as it could be in a duo lane and not very thematic, and the active feels really weak even when used optimally. The current W is also kind of bad, but at least it can be used more freely. I feel this ability should change completely. It's good that you kept the metal reference, though. * The shield generation on E is good, but the ability itself is really uninteresting. I understand you feel Mordekaiser can't be healthy in a solo lane, but I feel he could be if his E had a delay or progression (maybe the siphon could travel outwards from him, which would allow players to dodge it from a distance). * The Dragon Force passive is really awesome (plus metal references!), but poorly implemented: not only does it disable Morde's ult, which is still valuable as a nuke/heal even if it's weaker now, but it also kills any ghost he might have without warning. The ghost stats are cleaner than on live, but still a little confusing (why does the ghost have 10 bonus AD?) and somewhat suboptimal: why not make the ghost's damage scale with their AP and bonus health, instead of giving those bonuses to Morde? Right now, either Morde ults an enemy AD champion, preferably the marksman, and ends up with his own personal artillery (which is good), either he ults a mage or a tank/bruiser and ends up with a pretty useless ghost while he gets a dollop of extra stats, which doesn't feel as good as it should. * On top of this, the weakening of an active that's already pretty unstatisfying (the 10-second DoT is really terrible in terms of visible power) makes me question the use of it. Considering how Children of the Grave already uses up a lot of Mordekaiser's power budget, why not just get rid of the health steal active entirely? Instead, just have Morde curse the Dragon and enemy champions he'd damage (perhaps only with his basic attacks), and then change the active to raise a recently dead cursed enemy as a ghost, which would also solve the issue of Dragon Force interacting really poorly with the active. * Mordekaiser's health costs, which are already fairly insignificant come mid-to-late game, are even less relevant, now that they're lesser and that Morde is encouraged to stack health even more. Why not just remove them entirely? * I feel like this could be an occasion to move Morde's shield out of his resource bar and towards his health bar. Why is it even on his resource bar in the first place? Wouldn't moving his shield to his health bar paint a clearer picture of how much protection he's getting? * In general, I feel Morde still doesn't get to express as much power as he deserves to -- a lot of it is delayed, though for good reason (e.g. his Q), really poorly distributed (e.g. W and R), or just not that interesting (e.g. his E), and the tremendous weaknesses he has, namely his super-slow movement and attacks, don't feel as justified as they should be. I agree with the idea that Morde should be this immobile tower of destruction, and it definitely makes sense for him to be one of the slowest champions in the game in exchange for tremendous power, but he still feels like he has a long way to go before expressing that power in a truly interesting way. Overall, while there are quite a few improvements here (Q feels really awesome to use, and the updated shield feels good), I think Mordekaiser needs a lot more work, and potentially in a different direction. I've played him in a duo lane both as a support and as a sort-of-carry, and he feels tremendously awkward and weak in either. Perhaps this is because of a larger issue with melee vs. ranged being heavily skewed in lane (it carries much more risk for melees, and tends to give more rewards to ranged champions), but Morde doesn't feel that good in a duo lane. Perhaps he could still have potential there, but I also urge you to reconsider his solo laning state, and try to make him healthy (and viable) there. There's a lot of stuff on his kit I also think feels overlooked or half-done, and he could be optimized a lot more on top of having cool new effects.
: Fiora Feedback Thread
Here are my thoughts on her kit so far: * I really like the new passive, and it adds a completely new dimension to autoattack-based combat. The mobility and heal both encourage trading, and the hefty true damage allows her to duel anyone, which is core to her theme. However, I'm not too big a fan of the bonus AD ratio, which basically means a Fiora with enough AD can kill even a full build tank in two to three shots. Perhaps it just needs a nerf, since it's far too high right now, but I also feel just making the true damage scale with level, and not with items, would give her more stable damage output. I also think this passive needs to apply to large jungle monsters, since Fiora is currently a viable jungler but struggles on her first clear with her new kit, when her new passive means she really shouldn't. * Lunge works really well and gives Fiora a degree of reliability when aiming for a target's vitals. No criticism here. * Riposte looks pretty fine. The tooltip is slightly awkward, as it suggests that Fiora only damages the first champion hit when she damages all enemies, but aside from that the ability itself is really satisfying. * Bladework is a nice ability with simple core functionality, but I'm confused as to the details of its empowered attacks: why prevent the first attack from critting? Why call the second attack a crit when it could just as well be extra damage? The ability's also bugged versus structures, as its crit applies on turrets and its attack speed bonus persists even after attacking inhibitors and nexuses twice. The tooltip also has a typo (it says "guarenteed" instead of "guaranteed"). * The ult's pretty nice, though its short-ish duration makes it difficult to put to full use early on. Its tooltip also doesn't state that it increases Duelist's Dance's bonus movement speed with each rank. Overall, this is a fantastic kit! Fiora's a lot more interesting to play, and has massive power tied into unique and potentially really deep interaction, which is great. Her gameplay really makes her feel like a true duelist. Also, regarding her passive, have you considered tilting the vital zones 45 degrees? Right now, hitting those spots can be a bit awkward, particularly since their detection radius doesn't always correspond to the indicated hit zone, and having them spawn diagonally might give Fiora a bit more leniency.
: Skarner - Passive Cooldown Visual Please!
Agreed. I'm surprised Riot decided to fix a bug on his passive last patch, but didn't think to standardize his per-unit cooldown on the same ability.
: The level based scaling for her passive is still missing , and hopefully will still be added . Maybe it will improve her passive a bit in late game but yeah youre right: Minion dmg shouldnt affect the passive! + You shouldnt underestimate the buff to her W from 20% atkspeed bonus to 50% thats a pretty HUGE buff
It is. I've been able to trade significantly better early on, and the ability feels really nice. However, I feel Miss Fortune's early game is already incredibly strong, and most of the buffs she received will boost her early game even more while leaving her poor late-game unaffected. I'm not asking for late-game number buffs, per se, but I think Riot needs to address the issue of her mixed damage scalings interfering with both her opponents' builds and her own, among other things.
: Sometimes the store goofs, and they get set back to 590 RP - they should stay 1 RP. D: To address the original question about 1 IP - since the content is technically a 'bundle' the current functionality of the store won't let us mark something as 1 IP.
How come? Is there a minimum value past which the store doesn't accept something as a bundle? In that case, what's preventing the technical teams at Riot from simply adjusting those parameters?
: Miss Fortune feedback thread!
As someone who dislikes Grievous Wounds for its binary effectiveness relative to sustain, I'm glad that's finally out of {{champion:21}}'s kit. I also like her new model, and the animations are a lot cooler (also clearer, which is a big plus), though her attack animations get a little janky at high amounts of attack speed. However, I feel like her changes are also a huge missed opportunity: she has a ton of potential for an expanded VO a la {{champion:69}} , yet she still has the same limited amount of lines (including ones that refer to summoners, who are no longer a thing). On the gameplay side, she also has a ton of issues I don't think these changes address at all: Strut is still disabled by minions, which makes the effect pretty terrible in the mid game onwards, and despite many players requesting that the passive be made immune to minion damage past a certain level (say, level 9 or 13), it's been left unchanged, bar the immunity to DoT damage. The activation of Strut on W's active makes chasing easier, along with the increased rank 1 E slow, but it's not too useful for running away, which is a big issue in later fights. Her jumbled AD-to-magic damage, AP-to-physical damage scalings mean it's needlessly difficult to build against her, but also hard for her to build properly into the late game. Perhaps less importantly than the rest, there's a Mage Fortune playstyle that's been longing to emerge, and while the revert to Bullet Rain's duration would be a buff, her poor AP ratios and terrible penetration synergy just don't cut it. Most of the changes she received are buffs to her early game, which is already one of the strongest out of all marksmen, and don't really answer to the problems that are holding her down right now. I hope she receives more changes further down the line.
: Gangplank Feedback Thread
Here are a few thoughts and observations I had on my first playthrough with him: * His potential damage output is incredible with a full damage build. I've yet to try him with a tanky build, but full Critplank is truly amazing to behold. * His new passive is phenomenal, and thanks to it I've rarely had trouble sticking to enemies in fights. The fact that it applies on Powder Kegs is also fantastic. The true damage DoT doesn't use the recently added stacking DoT counter that was added for {{champion:22}}, though, which I feel is a missed opportunity. * I love the Silver Serpents mechanic on GP, and I feel it makes last hitting with Parrrley a lot more important and interesting. However, I feel the Silver Serpent requirement for his Cannon Barrage upgrades are way too high: my runthrough was a jungle Gangplank run, so it may not be representative of his laning income, but even with decent enough last-hitting I only managed to buy my first upgrade at level 17. I feel the cost of his upgrades needs to go down by a fair amount, and I think Jungleplank/Bankplank would probably benefit from plundering twice as much gold/Serpents or the like from jungle monsters (also perhaps champions, since 8 bonus gold when last-hitting an opponent isn't too spectacular). * On that note, I feel the Plunder income bonus should probably be an amount independent from rank, so either a set amount or one dictated by GP's level (or even his rank in Cannon Barrage). I feel this places an unnecessary constraint on leveling Q first at all costs when I feel W first or even E first could be valid choices as well. * W is phenomenal, and I think has a much better healing curve relative to when Gangplank needs it the most. I haven't yet tried Tankplank, but I feel this would also work a lot better on him. * Powder Keg is a really cool mechanic, though it's often a bit fiddly to use. I only had one playthrough with GP so far, so I have a lot more learning to go through, but often I've had Powder Kegs partially or totally occluded by the targets I was trying to hit via detonation, which made targeting them a lot more difficult than I thought it should be. The health effect is also confusing, and I feel it might be better to just give all Powder Kegs 1 health by default (if an enemy can attack a Keg before Gangplank, they deserve to dismantle it, and Gangplank himself telegraphs the ability well enough by laying down kegs in the first place). Looking at the tooltip, I also seriously question the 60% armor penetration: with an amount that large, perhaps it would be worth making Powder Kegs convert GP's attack to true damage, and remove the bonus damage against champions (minions have no resists, and Gangplank's jungle clear isn't too scary either, especially since Powder Keg feels kind of useless in the jungle right now). Trueplank already looks like it's gonna become a thing, what with the true damage he can output with Q, Death's Daughter's cannonball and potentially even Smite/Ignite/Warrior's Wrath, so true damage on his barrels would just add to that. * Cannon Barrage still feels pretty snazzy. Again, the Silver Serpent upgrades feel way too expensive, but even the baseline effect is pretty nice. I only managed to purchase the Raise Morale effect, but even that had a huge impact on teamfights, and it clearly helped allies secure kills and escape. Overall, Riot did a great job on his kit! He feels a lot more interesting overall, and it's impressive to see how you kept almost all of his oddball kit (including his point-and-click Q) and managed to make him way more consistent and fun to play, as well as play against. Also, to the splash artist(s): Gangplank's collar is raised way up, all the way to his ears; was this a deliberate move to indicate his cautiousness (i.e. he doesn't want to get his neck sliced)? **EDIT:** Cannon Barrage also seems to upgrade the maximum amount of Powder Kegs Gangplank can store, but that's currently not listed in the tooltip at all. **EDIT 2:** I just tried a custom game where I Parrrley'd enemies practically as soon as the ability went off cooldown, plundered an enemy each time, and used Powder Kegs to Parrrley multiple enemies whenever possible. Even with this, I could still only upgrade Cannon Barrage at level 9. **EDIT 3:** The Fire at Will upgrade to Cannon barrage doesn't seem to fire its extra clusters uniformly, and it feels like the timing between each cluster varies, and by a fair bit. This feels unintentional, and should likely be fixed.
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