: Preseason 2015 Experimental Jungle Changes
So I really like the ideas proposed. I'm always down for more variety in the jungle in terms of items and said items having some value in the late game. That being said I have a few problems with the various types of items and windows for laner abuse (The glory days of triple Wriggle's Lantern into early dragon). 1. Optimizing choices Sadly in a game like League of Legends where a lot of fights are determined by raw numbers and optimizations of said numbers (Tristana gaining a ton of AS means building AD and critical strike optimizes her kit and damage). So in the end it will boil down to which items gives me better stats? S3's Ancient Golem item became a really strong item because 500 health and tenacity made it insanely gold efficient and good for the late game. The Lizard item on the other hand while it was strong thanks to a certain Prodigal Explorer it got nerfed and became less effective late game so there was no point in junglers picking up that item. Moving on to S4 where the Spirit items gave a percent increase damage to camps in return for health and mana. However champions who picked the Ancient Golem item (tanks) generally didn't do enough damage where the percent increase was really meaningful to them while the more damage oriented ones your sustain scaled with your speed. Also junglers being able to pick up a bit of extra gold on the side meant they had room to build damage making high damage champions a highly popular pick and still they are popular now (Khazix, Elise, Lee). The new Golem item was a fantastic change and a great addition to giving tank junglers the edge they needed to put them on par with their top tier rivals but they lacked the damage to be up there with them. I'm not saying it's unbalanced but generally dealing damage is a good thing. Getting slightly bit off topic but I'm trying to make the point that there will always be an optimal choice. I think one thing you guys have to keep in mind is that pros and players will always find the best builds. The ganking item in the end is the most effective? You'll see junglers who make the best use of that item. Farming jungle item is the most gold efficient? You'll see farming junglers pop up to wreak havoc (Feral Flare ;.;). So don't get discouraged if everybody builds one item since it'll be damn near impossible to create a perfectly balanced set of items. 2. We can't live in a world where farming/counter-jungling/ganking champions can live in peace Generally speaking if ganking junglers were strong that means they can gank a laner, kill said laner, then proceed to invade with a man advantage thus nullifying farming junglers and potentially hurting counter-junglers due to lack of vision and ally support. Unless the gank item is really weak combat wise (which in my opinion shouldn't since ganking is about CC and damage), the other two types of junglers don't stand a chance. If the farming junglers were strong not only is that encouraging a very stale play style (come on this is a 5v5 game not a 4v4 1 v none game despite what the pros do), it also means they clear really fast. The true farmers (Trynd and Yi) will be busy farming up and trying to buy items. Unless we deny them methods of counter-jungling other than the wards they buy, they can just stay safe and even start counter-jungling themselves, especially if we give them the strength of really fast clears and really good gold (I'm thinking feral flare here without the ward). So either counter-junglers have to clear their own stuff before countering or be super cautious about where they go. 3. Counter-junglers are an interesting because of the variety of options. There are guys like Nunu who just take a camp and gtfo or Shyvana who takes camps and not worries as much since she can straight up 1v1 most champions in the game. So the choices would be between clearing faster (like farming!) or dueling (extra damage? but that would be good on gankers) and both sound like the ganking and farming options (much like our current options of Spirit items vs Feral Flare). I HIT MY LIMIT NOOOOOO
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