: ***
I'm a bit confused by your wording. his E ends in 1.5 seconds if he does not get a wall then has an extended duration if he walks into terrain that scales per point invested. If he enters combat, or was in combat its extended duration when inside walls gets reduced to 1.5.
: Kayn Bug Reports
Hi Szymba. Pass on my thanks to who ever worked on Kayn and Rhaast please. I am curious if some of the outskirts of the rift as well as how deep he can move on map edges is intentional or not, and if unintended do yall view it as an issue. Far as bugs go only thing I have seen is that auto attacking from inside terrain instantly ends his E and boots him out, where as ability's will only trigger his 1.5 second duration if they hit enemy champs. Unsure if bug or intentionally set up this way. I hope yall keep the 4 horsemen thematic going for the Darkin.
Rioter Comments
: "Champion pool" is the pool of champions *that you play.* Not that you own.
Well, your not wrong. I Will fix that then. Boom Re-worded. Now that is out of the way, your thoughts?
Rioter Comments
: Kindred is very lackluster. I think they honestly just need a complete rework already. Nothing about their kit works together.
May I pester you for some more details about how her kit does not work together?
: Balanced from what I can tell, but buggy and still unfit for release. wolf gets stuck on walls and her jump can stop her from autoing for a while. she's a mess in that way.
Lets pretend both those issues are fixed. Same verdict?
Rioter Comments
: Kindred
Ahoy mate, please provide reasons why you feel they are way to strong atm, Might help avoid downvotes and likely will generate more comments.
: I was not expecting kindred's ult to function like bard's, I'm comparing them in how they have strange utility. Bard is a support, so it makes more sense for it to make a difference without killing anyone. Kindred is clearly a carry, which their job becomes to kill the enemy team &/or bulldoze lanes; the strange part is her ult prevents all units from dying in a given area, but allowing everyone to still play. Which leads me to believe it's intended to be used like a soraka ult, something to clutch save an ally when a teamfight goes wrong. Granted kalista's got a second passive in W that deals bonus damage if her & her partner attack in sync, but her other two abilities are rather selfish; Q being a long range poke similar to nidilee, and E being a burst damage move if an opponent tried to go toe to toe. Indeed it would take time to build up, and in a half-hour game you'd be maxing out roughly 15 stacks, which is a bonus 19% current health damage. Sure armor helps, but has significantly diminishing returns; (science done with thresh) 20 armor is 16% physical damage reduction 50 armor is 33% physical damage reduction (the average carry/mage default) 100 armor is 50% physical damage reduction 150 armor is 60% physical damage reduction 200 armor is 67% physical damage reduction (most tanks should be reaching this when against mixed damage) 250 armor is 71% physical damage reduction 300 armor is 75% physical damage reduction 350 armor is 78% physical damage reduction 400 armor is 80% physical damage reduction (pointless unless the entire enemy team is physical) 450 armor is 82% physical damage reduction 500 armor is 83% physical damage reduction As you can see, stacking armor becomes more of a cost than a benefit beyond 250; and sure most tanks tend to have 3000 health to boot. However, there's several anti-tank items that makes this a mute point; (but I'll be ignoring criticals since it's RNG) -Blade of the Ruined King - passive damage bonus of 8% of the target's current health on auto attacks -Black Cleaver - all physical damage shreds armor by a percentage stacking up to 30% -Last Whisper - user ignores 35% of enemy armor -There's also the youmuu's ghostblade and several runes that give flat armor penetration; and 'devastating strikes' mastery that increases penetration by +6% Just using the DS mastery, black cleaver, & last whisper; that would be 41% armor penetration to begin with, and 71% at full stacks of the black cleaver. Assuming the tank has 300 armor, they'd be treated as 177 armor, then 87 armor after fully stacked black cleaver. That's dropping from 75% damage reduction to roughly 44% and considering most physical carries stack enough attack speed to strike twice per second; the tank is loosing more than half his armor in 3 seconds. If the carry in question is someone with built-in armor penetration (yasou, darius, vi, ext) then they would be doing near true damage to the tank. Kindred's passive damage boost is a scaling blade of the ruined king, is already anti-tank, similar to vayne; but without the combo requirement, with with the limitation of time & being reduced by her target's gear. But when someone falls behind, it becomes increasingly impossible to catch up, unless something crazy happens. Which leads be to think kindred will be a late game carry like vayne, but with the snowballing power of tristana. Whether or not she's played bottom lane or jungle doesn't matter, kindred noticeably improves with most carry items (damage, attack speed, mobility, penetration, critical, lifesteal). The reason I'm facepalming riot's choice of giving a carry an infinite scaling power, is that it makes them even more feast/famine. Nasus is a melee bruiser with a single slow, meaning he gets kitted easily by 2 champions; regardless if he's chasing or being chased. Veiger likewise is known for his capacity to one-shot, but again it's limited to single targets, and his crowd control got significantly nerfed. Thresh and bard are supports, and rarely built offensively since they benefit more from defensive or utility builds; though defensive builds need cash to build up like carries, they can still use their built-in abilities to boost their teams until then. Kindred is nearly as mobile as thresh & bard being able to jump walls, crowd control at range without fail (it's targeted), and the capacity to melt most tanks (except the specialized ones like alistar or kench) late game; not to mention her wave clear can rival sivir or jinx by using her jump and wolf's area attack. High mobility champions are already a pain to deal with when they're ahead; but having area damage and single target burst is an accident waiting to happen. I'm expecting kindred to get nerfed a few patches after release; but not her passive, I'm theorizing her ratios on her leap or slow. And it happens, I could've replied yesterday, but I just got back from rather stressful family over the weekend; so that's why this is so delayed. In short I find kindred strangely powerful, but not brokenly so like previous releases.
Good post! Sorry to hear about you dealing w family stress mate. I'm only active randomly regardless so take as much time to respond as ya wish. "In short I find kindred strangely powerful, but not brokenly so like previous releases" I am in agreement, thou i feel her power comes more from utility in team fights over lane, damage, or jungle. I find her aoe damage weak when compaired to other aoe champs, her %damage to be useful in softening up front lines but not a game breaker as vs squishys, crits/burst are better and vs tanks Max hp% is superior. Free damage is never bad but i don't view her passive as a game breaker, or her 2 second mobility as being over powered strong. Yea snowballing is snowballing but i think there are plenty of other champs who take off and dominate well befor kindred would. Their utility is awesome and i think its a fun kit. Tldr, Their aoe is a bit weak in damage, They can be countered with displacement, Their single target burst is inferior to other champions, Current hp < Max hp, Utility is awesome.
: had the problem with the jungle camps and as a jungler that seems like it will really hurt them since good junglers will give kills away when ever they can. and szelkiraly kindred are two characters so its "them" or "they" not "she" or "he".
I will try to keep that in mind, Due to how you control lamb i have a hard time not thinking of wolf as a pet with lamb being the primary champion. Gotta remind myself to respect the thematic aspect.
: Or they just don't want him so be invincible xD.
Could be, But i doubt it would be overly broken if it worked with his passive, as he would only get 3 ish seconds of life out of it, people with low hp could just get into lamb ulti and not die because well... that's what respite does, people with high hp can just waltz out of her ulti and sion would drop dead if he chased them, or if his hp was high enuf to not insta die chasing folks then lambs R would have not impact on the fight outcome unless used by the enemy team to not die to sions passive.
: Well Kindred`s passive says that when you reach 6 stacks wolf stops marking jungle
On release it was not listed to have a cap. They adjusted it due to feedback. Hence it now says 6 stacks he stops marking jungle.
: mordekaiser dragon
Im not 100% clear on what your asking OP, but ima chip in and try to add more clarity here for ya, Morde does not need to cast his R on dragon, his ultimate now has a passive component that, when he damages drag he puts a debuff on it that lasts 10 seconds refreshing when ever he damages drag, if his team kills dragon with this debuff on it he spawns a dragon ghost. He can not cast his R when the dragon ghost is alive, but once its gone he can instantly cast R assuming its off cd. Follow Barennoso PBE's link for alot of useful {{champion:82}} related information and numbers. So, working as intended, have a nice day mate. peace.
: That's strange Sion's passive still counts him as a unit with health.. I guess it'd be a bit op if he didn't die though.
Yea but his death timer triggers when he dies the first time, so possibly due to the fact he has a re-spawn timer running he is counted as a dead unit? Or Lambs respite might not prevent Abilitys from causing self damage, I will add that to the list of things I need test that next time i have a day off work. If i learn anything interesting , I will let ya know.
: I know.. don't you love that hum? it's eerie yes soothing at the same time! :o
: A spam-able dash indeed, but also a 3 hit combo for bonus damage scaling with enemy health. I should've compared them to kalista, another carry with an unexpectedly strange ult that has little synergy with the rest of her kit.
Had a wall of text, adjusted it to not be as much of a wall. Kalista R can interact with her passive, w passive, q, e, and W activated. I must confess confusion as to what you mean when you state it lacks synergy. Bard ult is sickeningly more versatile in usages to lambs respite. I must confess confusion once again because if you look passed what they do on paper to what in game usages for them, well its massively different. Quick example, lamb engage this fight with her R on all 5 of the enemy team, LETS GO INSTAGIB THEIR ADC AND MID... oh that went badly... thought her R was similar to bards? I can and almost did go on quite a bit here but lets move on. Going back to your first post here traveler about her passive scaling, So if you have an amazing game and get 7 stacks by 6th min and manage to kill some one every time lambs mark comes off cd at a rate of 1 charge every 100 seconds (90 for cd, 8 seconds your unable to kill them as mark has not set, and 2 second window to get the kill to keep this at a rate of 1 charge every 100 seconds.) I do believe that one would find themselves at 118 min game time to hit 80 charges, a number i keep seeing because that's when lamb hits 100% current hp damage, at which point she could 1 shot anyone (whos armor is 0) So darn op. course with 100 armor its only 50% current hp and in almost 2 hours of playing some one might have possibly stacked armor to deal with the adc jungler thats killing their team at a rate of one ever min and a half-ish. but eh could be wrong. Im willing to admit maths not a strong suit of mine and mistakes may have been made, thou i feel pretty confidante in my numbers. Tldr, If you think a legitimate game of league will last over 2 hours when some one has 70+ kills/assists because they have killed folks non stop in a 2 second window every time a ability comes off its cooldown, I would then become the one who is worried about their ability to facepalm hard enough. P.S. I spent all day arguing with a Buddie of mine about kindred and if you feel like im personally attacking you, please dont, some of my frustration with him may have wormed itself into my post. If you have a rebuttal i would be happy to read it, consider your points and possibly respond with one of my own or change my opinion.
: [Poll] Should Kindred's Passive Deal % Missing Health Damage?
A thought, To keep the yin yang thing going, what if wolf did Missing % (or current%) and lamb did the opposite?
: Any living thing can't die (ps sions passive will stay on hows that for sexy?). (besides wards, they're not really alive)
Sion passive will die in respite, tested that one already. Barron and dragon will not die however.
Rioter Comments
: Kindred, looking for answers.
Some testing done. She does scale with AS on her wolfs Auto speed, 2.5 and he strikes 12 times at best, this number sometimes will be lower if targets are moveing, Her ulti does not seem to have any interference with zills R, besides throwing on 300 or so more hp after it ends, enemy and allies revive inside it just fine and theres no fun/funky interactions. some screen caps from the AS testing and a pic of wolf autoing outside of his zone (2nd or 3rd strike. long as he does not zap to center area he will keep autoing target.) . http://imgur.com/a/bg7WP Edit. Further testing. Sion passive has no interaction. his hp will drop until death, I guess respite cant keep the dead alive unless they are only mostly dead? http://imgur.com/xSb6eG2 Checked it a total of 4 times and snagged a shot of him hitting death animation on the last one. huzza. Also learned lamb hums if you go idle long enough mucking about with this test. kinda niftty that. 9/23 edit, {{champion:83}} Ghouls die, reverent will not die from hp loss but will expire at 10, or will expire to revive targeted champion should they die (pretty shure on this last one, happened in 1-ish second window) revived champion will die. http://imgur.com/a/Nclg3
: mecha kindred new skin?
Lamb hardware, Wolf software? or could do the exact opposite.
: Shouldn't he attack faster when you build attack speed? I'd like to see that change if it's not already a thing. He doesn't seem ferocious enough.
I think he does scale, pretty sure its off AS but not positive. Level 1 W attacked 5 times, later He attacked 7 times. When re-enabled I intend to test and find out more info. Only other things i can think of are it cuz multi targets vs single target his ai has to target and that takes longer then just hitting same dude over n over, It scales off champion level, or its weird and goes off cdr. Will let ya know once i am positive why. Also fun tidbit. his auto range is bigger then his territory. tested that and can say 100% (personally) positive on this. Talking exclusively about wolf in W activated and not lamb, just to clarify.
: [WE'RE BACK FOLKS] Kindred disabled until 9/18
Rioter Comments
: Some Changes to Kindred [Wolf specifically] That I Wouldn't Mind
What if wolf grew with stack size? hunts, eats, grows? Could put a hard cap on the model growth to prevent it from getting 2 out of hand.
: Looks more awesome thoe.
not all ways, when i did it my clone wolf got stuck to lambs rear end and pretended he was a tail. (http://imgur.com/3aqZfdv)
: Hey! Currently Wolf stops hunting monsters once you reach 6 stacks. The passive is meant to reward you for doing risky things and invading the enemy jungle to poach specific camps. Past a certain point in the game the jungle really opens up and becomes a lot less dangerous to invade, especially as you being tearing through camps super quickly. I will update the tooltip to reflect this, it will be at the bottom. Thank you and please keep the feedback coming!
Thanks Wrekz. Good champ's btw sir. Looking forward to more of your work. If your updating the tool tip would you also make it a bit more clear that wolf only marks enemy jungle and scuttle bugs? "Wolf periodically hungers for and **hunts **jungle monsters" made me think it would include my camps as well.
: the passive is more op ;) if ur fed u can get 20-30% current hp on hit dmg easy and if ur crazy getting 100 kills u can get 100%+ onhit dmg so baron is nonsense :D
80 stacks is the magic 100% number but if you want to 1 shot any one your gonna need more then that.
: That is odd because at max rank mine was barely doing more than an auto attack against a target with only Frozen Heart. The damage was incredibly underwhelming.
@alpha hey, some times you get a game where no one builds armor even when they should. @ op, i am under the impression that her E only does 5% max hp damage. I have the formula down as 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 + (0.2 total ad) + 5% targets max hp. Can you post a Screenshot or show me where you got your numbers?
: Kindred Ults
True, but they have the same effect on players regardless of caster so only think a visual indicator would help is judging which one would end first. I think you should go to the feedback thread and post there about adding a team specific border? http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/m65ilNzi-kindred-official-feedback-thread
: i think that the best is gonna be around 15 stacks, more that that i feel like it's kinda immpossible
Yea, also wolf stops marking camps atm. may be bug might be intended. but after about 5 stacks i had to rely on killing folks exclusively. and my luck might suck but most my wolf marks where placed in enemy jungle. Could be complacently random or might be weighted to force invades/counterjungleing. worth reminding folks that when a camp is marked all players can see that mark on their minimap.
: i'm not sure if there's a limit or not but i'd assume that there's one.
I can help with that, Its Physical damage. if they had 100 armor and you some how manage to farm 80 stacks to hit 100% they would still only take 50% current health. your 2nd auto after that would do 50% of that (25% of max) Also there has been no mention of a hard cap so i think you could stack higher then 100% But personally i find that unlikely.
: Kindred Official Feedback Thread
First impression is that she is fun. Well made sir, solid design and i personally enjoy the feeling that she has zones of power due to W and R. I would add my 2 cents in with others in range indicators for Q and for R. A buff that could be done is changing her R into a skill shot as it would allow more precision for skilled players to deny free life and really turn around team fights, how ever as i feel her R is strong as is i would not advice doing so unless your actively looking to put more power into her kit. Lastly It would be awesome if yall put the mark activation delay in the tool tips, and possibly had a visual/audio indicator for when it swaps. All in all Great work and thanks.
: Wolf stops marking jungle camps after you killed like 3 (i didn`t count) And Wolf like duplicated himself and 2 wolf`s were floating though eachother
^ Witnessed this as well playing Them, enemy kindred wolf camp markers would spawn but He never went above 4 stacks. I ended up with 9 and noticed around 5-6 stacks that i was no longer spawning wolfs marker. Additional info, had a 2nd wolf glitched behind me, I believe triggered by death during the returning animation from W duration expiring. Will attempt to recreate, but not the point of my post. seeking clarification as to if wolf is supposed to slow down or stop marking camps after X point or if it is in fact a bug.
: Kindred: Wolf stops Hunting
Saw this myself. Questions i have for everybody, how many stacks did you see it stop after? Did you have a 2nd wolf stuck to your butt following you around that remained even after deaths? Did the enemy team have a kindred as well?

Szelkiraly

Level 30 (PBE)
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