Rioter Comments
: Gold Funneling Nerf Feedback
This also punishes powerfarm junglers like Shyvana. There are a lot of unintended consequences.
Rioter Comments
: TP Nerf is necessary?
I think they should remove the reduced CD on cancel but no other nerf is necessary imo. If it is still too much, probably buff the other options slightly. It's weird to have it as the only summoner spell with a greater than 5 minute CD.
: > [{quoted}](name=Straniu,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=zW5P08zu,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-03T21:33:21.687+0000) Ravenous Hunter, Ultimate Hunter, Ingenious Hunter, Relentless Hunter Bounty Hunter stacks now grant 80 bonus gold > All great feedback here btw, but just wanted to call this out specifically as an accidental tooltip change. No in-game effect has been pushed to PBE nor are there any plans to do so.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Rovient,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=zW5P08zu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-03T21:58:47.568+0000) > > All great feedback here btw, but just wanted to call this out specifically as an accidental tooltip change. No in-game effect has been pushed to PBE nor are there any plans to do so. Ah, OK. Thanks for the clarification. Something else I wanted to also add on the new Ghost Poro is that this actually seems maybe even too good on JG. I haven't played with it but I'd probably take it over the others. It allows me to defend against opposite side invades while also being aggressive myself. This would probably make early game JGs even more attractive too since they already win duels but will now do so with more safety (if you win a duel convincingly and quickly enough, collapses matter less) and vision. It might sound better on paper than it is and the old Ghost Poro was getting basically no use (for good reason) so it definitely merited attention. I just hope that the more late game Eyeball Collection will remain a decent option in the JG. Anyway, I can't wait to test this. :)
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: "These are potential buffs for champions with built in MS bonuses such as Singed, Nocturne, Hecarim, and Trundle but a nerf to the rest." that's the whole point of the change, it's too good of a rune all around, they want to restrict it to be just as good as other rune picks from that tree. Hence the global MS lowered and the AP/AD ratios increased. That means that it won't have that much of a different effect on champs like Singed, Hecarim, etc... while making it less effective on other champs.
> [{quoted}](name=Belial Lucifer,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=uQYIqdXQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-01T22:40:42.927+0000) > > "These are potential buffs for champions with built in MS bonuses such as Singed, Nocturne, Hecarim, and Trundle but a nerf to the rest." that's the whole point of the change, it's too good of a rune all around, they want to restrict it to be just as good as other rune picks from that tree. Hence the global MS lowered and the AP/AD ratios increased. That means that it won't have that much of a different effect on champs like Singed, Hecarim, etc... while making it less effective on other champs. I addressed this specific issue. This doesn't make it "just as good as other runes from the tree", it likely makes it a must have on those champions with kit synergy and far too weak on everyone else. It isn't even a decision anymore. What is the point of a rune where there is no player expression? It might as well not exist and just become a part of the kits.
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Rioter Comments
: Runic Echoes Needs MS More than AP - AN EXPLANATION
MS is also less of a laning stat so it's easier to make Runic Echoes strong without it being overly attractive to laners.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I really really dislike lowering the damage on the Hydra items, it's a nerf in my eyes. Part of the reason I buy Ravenous Hydra is because it is one of the highest AD damage item in the game, and I don't want that to change. Can't you lower the cost of Tiamat instead? Most people don't upgrade it until very late anyways, at which point these changes becomes a nerf to a final build while intending to be a buff.
> [{quoted}](name=Ataraxis,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=QzwOyzht,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-17T21:37:10.825+0000) > > I really really dislike lowering the damage on the Hydra items, it's a nerf in my eyes. Part of the reason I buy Ravenous Hydra is because it is one of the highest AD damage item in the game, and I don't want that to change. Can't you lower the cost of Tiamat instead? Most people don't upgrade it until very late anyways, at which point these changes becomes a nerf to a final build while intending to be a buff. If they lower the cost of Tiamat any more, it'll become a must buy on junglers. This isn't inherently bad but I feel it's at the price point where there's a good amount of choice.
: Fighter Items on PBE for 8.12
Atmas returns! Mundo's going to love this. Trundle too and quite a few others. I'm looking forward to trying it. Wasn't this initially removed because you feared the combination of tankiness + damage? What changed to make it easier to balance? Is it because ADCs will be stronger vs late game tanks anyway in 8.11? BTW: Why are the Hydra items being nerfed and made less slot efficient? Those are core for a fighter's late game. If you just want them to be cheaper, why aren't we getting 35g per AD lost or at least 30ish?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Mundo PBE Nerfs A Bit Much
https://www.reddit.com/r/DrMundoMains/comments/8h7p6y/how_strong_is_mundo_after_the_buffs/ These are thoughts from Mundo mains that I thought were interesting.
: Marksman and AD Itemization Changes coming to PBE shortly
Will Corki get compensation for the Fleet Footwork nerf? He has underperformed in all roles ever since the AD/level nerf. He's not even strong at the high MMRs or competitive and even his late game doesn't score exceptionally well. I might try Lethal Tempo on him but he already has a weak laning phase even as is and he doesn't stack enough AD to make Electrocute attractive. Press the Attack is also awkward because of his low AS making it hard to proc., especially if you weave in abilities. Another problem I have with Corki is his insane vulnerability to AD mid assassins like Talon or Zed. Vs burst assassins like Katarina or Fizz, he can go the mini hexdrinker rune or buy some MR. What to do vs Talon though? No item fits well. GA's just not up enough, Ninja Tabi have been nerfed in armor and Corki REALLY wants the Mpen from Sorcs too. I guess he can go Zhonya's but his AP ratios were gutted so it doesn't seem all that viable either. There's nothing like Hexdrinker vs physical damage. Seeker's Armguard is a little like that but only attractive for champions stacking AP. One Cloth Armor is certainly not enough for the slot and buying GA is a bit hard due to the 1300g requirement but I know people will say "go Stopwatch." Ok, then what? I don't die once and then I have no Stopwatch. He will have his R up in another minute and a half. It's like with GA. The CDs are just not aligned so it's basically guaranteed death if the AD mid gets just a little fed from one roam bot lane etc. The one thing that has somewhat helped is to go Resolve secondary with Bone Plating and Chrysalis while also building an early Vamp Scepter + Cloth Armor and running Bloodline so that I am generally above 75% HP in lane. It's still a mess to make that many sacrifices vs them but I don't play AD mid assassins so perhaps I am being biased. Still, it's infinitely harder than when playing an AP mid vs them. Seeker's Armguard is effective even to just sit on and very accessible. Zhonya's pretty much negates all AD assassins when you have it up if you use it correctly. Lastly, it seems that ADCs as a whole are getting less armor but more health. Since Corki does primarily magic damage, this also hurts him both when roaming to kill bot and when actually attempting to be a bot laner. BTW: Why are my posts defaulting to a score of zero? I don't even get downvoted a lot normally.
: I hear flashes nonstop
I had that too on PBE in the training mode once. I can't reproduce it though.
: New Runic Echoes - Missing the MS
One thing to consider is that without any mana on Runic Echoes, there is a bit of anti-synergy with CDR. CDR lets you spam more spells but without a proper mana pool, that goes to waste. If it were just MS, then a secondary mana item like Abyssal, RoA, IBG etc. would probably become meta. That way you can utilize the CDR better and also potentiate it with more CDR. CDR tends to be a stat with break points (such as when you can get 2 rotations in for a fight) and that works increasingly better the more you have. I'm having a really hard time giving a real recommendation on how this item should be. Most jungle players probably do enjoy the MS more though. Mana definitely pushes it away from champs like AP shyv, Rumble etc. but is that really such a big cost if it otherwise opens up more champions and flexibility elsewhere in builds? While I think the MS is stronger and feels better when ahead or with sufficient planning, having mana on the item would open up more second item choices and make it less costly to give blue buff too. I prefer the MS for sure but it might be that just raw mana would do more to help JG diversity. MS also in a way penalizes weak early game junglers harder when they face strong ones who are snowballing lanes and then invading with a completed runic faster. Maybe the ideal is to offer a bit of both mana and MS (let's say 3% MS).
: Mundo is one of the strongest top laners right now on Live with the fourth highest winrate (52.75%) and the seventh highest playrate (3.28%). He also isn't that hard to play, with champion.gg showing his mastery curve is very short (winrate by games played doesn't change that much). For someone as strong as Live Mundo currently is, he shouldn't be that easy. These nerfs should bring him down to around a 49%-50% winrate, which is balanced.
> [{quoted}](name=Joseph Kanaan,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=dmN3INtI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-04T21:32:52.997+0000) > > Mundo is one of the strongest top laners right now on Live with the fourth highest winrate (52.75%) and the seventh highest playrate (3.28%). He also isn't that hard to play, with champion.gg showing his mastery curve is very short (winrate by games played doesn't change that much). > > For someone as strong as Live Mundo currently is, he shouldn't be that easy. These nerfs should bring him down to around a 49%-50% winrate, which is balanced. It's still a small sample but he's at 52.6% now in Plat+ and that's not so unusual, especially for an easier champion (lower skill floor = harder to mess up and thus higher winrate even in a balanced state). Singed has had a 53% winrate for many patches and has a comparable pick rate. I don't see him as being OP either. I don't think Mundo's OP if people play well vs him and also buy Grievous Wounds. Winrates mean little in terms of objective balance. For example, WW had a high winrate and wasn't objectively strong (bad WWs also don't drag the winrate down as much as for other champs). If he were OP, you'd see him have a higher than 1.5% ban rate in KR and you'd see him used in competitive. It was a nerf just because SQ players outside of KR aren't good enough to understand him. The patch notes on WW didn't even make sense. They were saying he had a good clear when he actually has slow clears pre-Tiamat and can't even do Raptors properly (which makes his pathing exploitable and predictable). Maybe I'm wrong but this is the first time Mundo's been viable in months for either role. People might just not be playing around his spikes well or itemizing properly. I'm not totally against those R changes but I think they are too much without some kind of compensation elsewhere. I'm guessing that if those go live, he'll be yet again bad at both roles and sub 50% winrate
Rioter Comments
: i think with the changes to {{item:1039}} we dont really need the mana on runic... but i do REALLY wish we could keep the movement speed i would love 10% cdr and my 7% movement speed 20% cdr is nice and all, but i can get 10% cdr really easy... the movement speed is a LOT harder to come by
> [{quoted}](name=SwiftKitten,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=i7dOAcvy,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-04T15:30:41.489+0000) > > i think with the changes to {{item:1039}} we dont really need the mana on runic... > but i do REALLY wish we could keep the movement speed > > i would love 10% cdr and my 7% movement speed > > 20% cdr is nice and all, but i can get 10% cdr really easy... the movement speed is a LOT harder to come by I think if they were to keep the MS, AP junglers would definitely be back. MS is especially nice on Fiddlesticks or melee junglers such as Gragas, Amumu, Ekko and Diana. After Amumu Qs (which itself is helped by MS), he wants to keep you in his W. Some of these would have preferred Runeglaive more but that's too niche. For example Fiddlesticks or Karthus JG certainly don't want that. MS is a great stat on everyone. I suppose mana is more targetted to help AP burst junglers because defensive itemization tends to have mana items such as IBG, Abyssal or FH. This makes some sense but the burst AP junglers also benefit more from MS than the tanks because they depend more on snowballing as well as getting in/out cleanly. Overall though, mana likely helps those stacking raw AP more. BTW: As far as Amumu goes, it would be nice to have some other minor interactions in his kit for skilled players. WW for example has a fairly basic kit but actually a ton of little tricks and outplay potential. As much as I disagree with the nerf direction and severity, his kit is well designed. It's like poker. Easy to play, hard to master perfectly.
: I'd rather the mana be removed completely and added more to the mana regen in the ludens proc honestly. That way non-mana reliant AP champions would also be able to use the item assuming it got something else in it's place.
> [{quoted}](name=Voracious,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=i7dOAcvy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-04T08:51:46.130+0000) > > I'd rather the mana be removed completely and added more to the mana regen in the ludens proc honestly. That way non-mana reliant AP champions would also be able to use the item assuming it got something else in it's place. Hah, yeah. I suppose Rumble JG isn't too fond of 300 mana.
: i would honestly rater just add the 10% CDR and keep my 7%movement speed, most ap jungler like movement speed anyways. its ganna suck losing that 7%
> [{quoted}](name=SwiftKitten,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=yVLVPBjP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-03T19:17:45.843+0000) > > i would honestly rater just add the 10% CDR and keep my 7%movement speed, > most ap jungler like movement speed anyways. its ganna suck losing that 7% I feel the same way but I do take the first two Blues!
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Straniu,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=xsjNBT8J,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-19T23:40:33.615+0000) > > I never said he was weak early and even explicitly stated that his early ganks were too strong for most SQ players to deal with. People just don't change their playstyle much even when spam pinged. If they just wait out his early aggression, he wouldn't be a problem at all. However, even to this day, people frequently die top to his super predictable level 3 gank. WW can't farm well without Tiamat so Raptors aren't an option and given his kit, it's pretty clear that he wants to gank early on rather than powerfarm. > > I actually agree that nerfing early and buffing late is the way to go. I think this would maintain viability across ELOs while putting a larger clamp on his performance in mid and low tiers. mb I probably misread your post when I wrote that you said WW was weak early, apologies on that. Though I agree that WW needs some balancing, but the current changes are simply straight up gutting him, whereas he needs a weaker early game and a stronger late game. Another thing that can be very powerful on WW is his ability to counter jngl without losing too much health, giving him the ability to even fight the enemy jngler if he/she shows up. A lot of jnglers are relatively low on their first clear, but not WW. I hope they put him in the right direction, and not just straight up put him out of the meta.
> [{quoted}](name=Belial Lucifer,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=xsjNBT8J,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-20T00:16:32.416+0000) > > mb I probably misread your post when I wrote that you said WW was weak early, apologies on that. Though I agree that WW needs some balancing, but the current changes are simply straight up gutting him, whereas he needs a weaker early game and a stronger late game. Another thing that can be very powerful on WW is his ability to counter jngl without losing too much health, giving him the ability to even fight the enemy jngler if he/she shows up. A lot of jnglers are relatively low on their first clear, but not WW. I hope they put him in the right direction, and not just straight up put him out of the meta. We're basically on the same page. The real issue with WW in SQ is his early snowballing + Tiamat timing. The Q nerf is placebo for the phase that actually frustrates players facing WW. It'll have no effect pre-6 and people will probably just have to max W first completely now. Late game you'll be at a larger disadvantage than normal but WW's late game 5v5 was not strong to begin with. This will feel worse for WW players (especially if they have more difficulty closing out with a well-earned lead) but it won't be very noticeable to enemies. I think his winrate will take a .7% hit or so from such a change but possibly less if some people who don't main WW just read about it and give up on him. He's a single target duelist champion so he should be decent at snowballing (his healing helps him maintain his leads too) but clearly his W is too much for SQ players at most MMRs. This will always lead to artificially high winrates even though the champion isn't actually OP. If Riot wants to stop this kind of whining, he needs to be tweaked not nerfed. Or if it is a nerf, it should be just delaying his power spike a bit. Objectively, he isn't OP so this is why a straight Q nerf seems wrong to me. It not only doesn't address the issue causing his higher winrate (which isn't itself necessarily a balance issue), but it also isn't what's causing the complaining. Meanwhile, it makes him less viable at the highest MMRs and especially in competitive where games drag on longer. Essentially, the change in no way addresses the issue while also narrowing his viability across MMRs (dooming him to a mid MMR and lower champion). If it has little effect (as I predict), it'll probably lead to even more undeserved nerfs and a further reduction in WW's viability across MMRs. Kha'Zix will nearly always be picked over him in Diamond+ and he's already a better champion even now despite the lower winrate.
: WW weak early ? He is one of the best early junglers there is. He has insane lifesteal when clearing camps (so no gold wasted in pots, instead going for the first tiamat component, making it very easy to get it later, making his clear even faster), he has AS depending on target's current HP, a healing Q that heals based on missing health, a damage reduction E that follows up on a CC, and a movement speed spell that lets you chase low enemies without wasting flash, all that at only lvl 3. He is very powerful early on, but falls off as the game goes. On the contrary, nerfing his early while buffing his late is good, which corresponds to the first balance they did on him, but this second change is straight up just gutting him.
> [{quoted}](name=Belial Lucifer,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=xsjNBT8J,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-19T23:24:03.349+0000) > > WW weak early ? He is one of the best early junglers there is. He has insane lifesteal when clearing camps (so no gold wasted in pots, instead going for the first tiamat component, making it very easy to get it later, making his clear even faster), he has AS depending on target's current HP, a healing Q that heals based on missing health, a damage reduction E that follows up on a CC, and a movement speed spell that lets you chase low enemies without wasting flash, all that at only lvl 3. He is very powerful early on, but falls off as the game goes. On the contrary, nerfing his early while buffing his late is good, which corresponds to the first balance they did on him, but this second change is straight up just gutting him. I never said he was weak early and even explicitly stated that his early ganks were too strong for most SQ players to deal with. People just don't change their playstyle much even when spam pinged. If they just wait out his early aggression, he wouldn't be a problem at all. However, even to this day, people frequently die top to his super predictable level 3 gank. WW can't farm well without Tiamat so Raptors aren't an option and given his kit, it's pretty clear that he wants to gank early on rather than powerfarm. I actually agree that nerfing early and buffing late is the way to go. I think this would maintain or even expand his viability across ELOs while putting a larger clamp on his performance in mid and low tiers. If they're going to change him at all, it should be in a way that nerfs him in SQ but makes him more viable for the highest tiers and especially competitive, where he struggles so much that he isn't even seriously considered. If he's just nerfed with no other kit changes, all it does is hurt him in SQ without doing anything positive for him in the brackets where he clearly has issues. On the other hand, if he's too strong in SQ, of course he can't be buffed to be viable in competitive since SQ players would just pull their hair out and swear at Riot before they adjusted their play. This is why I think it would be a good idea to essentially gut his W early (the main reason he's strong) but bring some more power late game. The old PBE changes seemed good to me but a bit too conservative on the W nerf. BTW: With a large W nerf, it also makes WW more of an invading jungler. He'd be trying to duel his counterpart because dueling would still be good even if his ganks suffered. Admittedly, he wouldn't be a very safe counter jungler and would probably aim more to just get a few extra camps for Tiamat as he rushes level 6.
Rioter Comments
: Seraph's Nerf - Not Consistent With Item Identity
I just realized that this only affects AA's and NOT Seraph's. In that case, it is a good change and a smart way of nerfing it! You guys are on a roll with the balance stuff lately. 8.7 was a great patch too. Among other things, I liked how Ninja Tabi were nerfed for raw armor vs general physical damage but their identity was tightened as an anti auto attacker item. The changes to Resolve were also very much like I'd have wanted too. Now, just don't overdo Lux & Vi buffs. :P
: Math of Archangel's Passive Awe Change
Even if the math were to show it wasn't gutted, I think it's the wrong direction. It's supposed to be a big ticket scaling item that you need to stack. To maintain that identity, the stacking mechanic can be slowed, the shield can be further reduced/made less available or the cost can be increased. It shouldn't be brought back closer to a mid tier item. I explained my thoughts [here](https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/client-new-features-feedback/QqEuTIc8-seraphs-nerf-not-consistent-with-item-identity).
Rioter Comments
: Don't think we have any plans to give melee love with the Rageblade price increase. It's still a very powerful item on the champs that utilize it. We haven't begun exploring Warwick changes yet (outside of the double Q change). Meddler mentioned in one of his recent posts that it's something that may potentially happen in the future. > Nerfs to Archangel's (new build path and stats have made this a bit strong), Janna, Xayah, Caitlyn, Warwick, Braum, Sion, Kog (though also need to see where Rageblade nerfs in 8.7 leave him) https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/na3Ko02t-quick-gameplay-thoughts-march-30
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=dJ74xREF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-04T23:27:17.422+0000) > > Don't think we have any plans to give melee love with the Rageblade price increase. It's still a very powerful item on the champs that utilize it. > > We haven't begun exploring Warwick changes yet (outside of the double Q change). Meddler mentioned in one of his recent posts that it's something that may potentially happen in the future. > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/na3Ko02t-quick-gameplay-thoughts-march-30 I'm not convinced WW needs any nerf. He's a champion designed to exploit SQ players even when balanced and I don't think people itemize great vs him either. He's a menace until players get much better. People don't like to have to adjust their play vs champions like Rammus, WW, Nocturne, Rengar, Zed (not sure of his current state) etc. but that doesn't mean those champions are actually out of line. This is probably why WW has a worse winrate in KR despite a far lower pick rate. He's also only banned 1% there but has a 40% ban rate here. WW would be picked in competitive if he were objectively strong. He has seen virtually zero competitive play since release. Moreover, while he has some tricks, his skill floor is quite low. In fact, WW actually guides you to the decisions you should be making as a jungler via his passive and reduced farming ability till Tiamat. Tiamat is a lever on his power but the problem in SQ is that he gets it quite fast since people give him early leads he shouldn't have. I think playing WW literally makes you a better jungler if you're not particularly skilled at the role. Since he's a good duelist, he can also snowball his lead well. Some champions will just have higher than average winrates for most of the ladder when objectively balanced. If he drops to a 50% winrate in SQ for below Diamond with his current kit, he'll probably just be unviable in Masters+. Thus, I don't think any nerf is required but perhaps there can be some tweak in his power. Maybe angle some power away from early and add it to late game (the old WW was better late game). One way to do this is to nerf his W passive early so he can't get fed as easily vs bad players. Another reason to do this is that it has become the best max order and nerfing this might give the option to max Q first instead (though probably not in 95% of cases). Furthermore, the best WW players tend to put only 3 points into W early and then max Q followed by E. It seems that they use it to snowball early but don't find enough benefit in putting more points relative to getting tankier from the other max orders. An example of how this would look 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 / 55% -> 12% 24% 36% 48% 60% Having a larger difference in each rank would make W maxes more meaningful and an actual decision even after the early snowball phase. It might also make top WW more viable since he can split push and then use the slightly better max rank W to join his team faster. WW's not a great late game champ right now (outside of bad play which allows easy picks or in skirmishes) and this would help him a tiny bit there. It would also make Deadman's more attractive relative to just full tank with Randuin's. Overall, I think it's a net nerf for all tiers but it nerfs bad WWs the most. They'd have to consider the situation more and show up where they need to instead of just relying on the passive early to get fed and snowball, then get Tiamat, power farm -> dragon etc. For good WWs who know where to be and how to jungle in general, the nerf is less severe so I think this would hurt the highest MMRs less. **Other Champions:** I'd like to see Ekko JG get a bit of help too. I don't think he's quite there yet. A 15% missing mana return on his passive vs monsters or giving him a bit more AS/armor may bring him to a decent state. This would also help out his AP JG builds the most. One of the issues with going full AP is that you lack a quick burst of mana/cdr (ideally with some HP). The hybrid build that Arcsecond uses with some success until recently takes IBG and Abyssal to give him those (as well as some HP). If his passive had a bit of missing mana return, it would feel less necessary to go such items. The main balance threat for this is for mid Ekko using Q over the raptor wall to stay in lane forever. I think 15% is likely the point where this wouldn't be beneficial overall. For Ziggs, I think there needs to be better scaling to justify his unreliability. There are many lanes he loses too or at the very least can't push a lead very hard (due to ganks and a general lack of kill pressure). Super fun champion (maybe not as much against though) but just not worth it atm. He wasn't great even when DFT was in the game and he struggles even more now that Liandry's got nerfed especially for poke (more assassins mid isn't great for him either). If Seraph's is nerfed on top of it (perhaps a cost increase?) then he will be hit as well since it currently outperforms Luden's. Mundo JG used to go scaling armor + 3 Armor Quints. This allowed him a strong early relative to now and he wasn't top tier even then. He needs more armor to be a decent choice - especially after Cinderhulk nerfs & Cut Down buffs. I don't mind his kit too much because he's the only tank with a spammable poke ability & a solid split push option but he does depend on being super tanky to be relevant. Corki was overnerfed. Revert the AD nerf imo. FF already got nerfed and while he's a good generalist pick, there is also a lot of opportunity cost in the fact that he has no CC or lane pressure early. For an ADC, he's not good enough late game. Last time I checked in Diamond+, he was ~47% winrate late game. Gragas: I don't think it's quite enough. Maybe up the W damage reduction with AP scaling? There's a high chance that Syndra was overnerfed slightly even for higher MMR. It would be nice if Kench's stacking passive on autos worked on JG monsters. The devour should continue to not work on Blue or Red though. That would probably make him a mid tier jungler. In general though, if you wish to make these changes for Ekko or Kench, remember that there will be players who main them in the new roles. Thus, you can't treat it like a gimmicky off build such as AP Tristana. You have to actually support those roles in future patches and seasons if necessary. Otherwise, it's probably not even worth bothering with. BTW: I thought the 8.7 changes were fantastic. There was virtually nothing I'd have done differently. It was just well designed overall not just in what was nerfed but how it was done. For example, resolve isn't just straight gutted but becomes more of a mid-late game tree. This makes tanks less impactful early but also not quite as squishy late (which is a real problem facing ADCs with Lord Dom, mids with Void etc.) This makes the class differences more distinct instead of just being about what items you bought making anyone a tank.
: Ninja Tabi -10 Armor = Overnerfed - An Explanation
Nice strawman... after all, I said that I buy Tabis in order to clear the jungle, right? Try to have basic intellectual honesty when making a comment. At the very least attempt to understand the point instead of latching onto one thing and trying to ridicule it with gross misrepresentations or ad hominems. Everything about Tabis helps in the jungle and for objectives. Having full HP clears at all times means you can gank more, invade more, consider objectives such as Dragon more, fight more, quickly heal off the jungle with the LS component back to full HP etc. I never said they were required for clearing or that this was the primary reason for the purchase. They are a great general buy while Mercs are more situational.
Rioter Comments
: AP Kog'Maw is lost in the rifts of Summoner's Rift!!
I so wish that he was a viable mid laner, as he was for many seasons prior. Even when I bought him, mid lane was the only thing that appealed to me. I love the long-range hypercarry style even if there are a lot of games I lose before I'm relevant. I've tried him dozens of times in the last 2 seasons and he has not been up to par. Even if Riot buffs him to an acceptable level, I can't trust that they'll actually pay attention to him when balance shifts and he becomes unplayable again. He was never a gimmick but it's also not something they care to maintain and support. It's unfortunate for AP Kog fans.
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Rioter Comments
: Dont touch my Evelyn, she is perfectly fine. You are trying to shelf her with your ideas.
> [{quoted}](name=Thor Almighty,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=cEEhPnlB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-12-17T21:54:47.061+0000) > > Dont touch my Evelyn, she is perfectly fine. You are trying to shelf her with your ideas. Nah, I'm just considering options which preserve a playstyle I enjoy. Although, my idea does change her playstyle quite a lot in extended fights. She wouldn't be able to restealth and go back into the fight. That's what would hurt her the most and it's why she might need additional tweaks to help her.
: Corki nerfs blow my mind if they go through given the ample feedback
Even LS thinks the Corki nerfs are nonsensical: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FvJocbkfcQ
: It would destroy her. Her ganks before lvl 6 are bad, her CC isn't that realible and her E isn't that good withouth camouflage. If she needs ult to work, her gank pressure will be near to 0. Her numbers may need some nerf, but her kit works fine overall.
> [{quoted}](name=Rulho,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=cEEhPnlB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-17T03:51:08.917+0000) > > It would destroy her. Her ganks before lvl 6 are bad, her CC isn't that realible and her E isn't that good withouth camouflage. If she needs ult to work, her gank pressure will be near to 0. Her numbers may need some nerf, but her kit works fine overall. She already has no stealth pre-6 and mostly ganks when her ultimate is up. It might be too harsh but I think she'd still be viable. It might require other kit tweaks for compensation (perhaps lowering the R CD). I don't want her to get gutted. As a Corki player, I know how bad that feels. Either way, I hope that if they do nerf her, it's in a way that doesn't damage her late game. I love popping people late game on Eve. :D
: Simple Champ Select Clarity Improvement
No other thoughts? I personally see no downside to it.
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Straniu

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