: 40 sec at level 1. Yes that's pretty long, but they'll likely be getting the item around level 8. By that point, the cd could be down to as little as 30 seconds. One minion wave of waiting. That's not that long especially if they clear the wave quickly. It really depends on how much the cd goes down in early levels.
As far as I am concerned - any item that actually makes you think about it beyond stat-checking when facing up against a champion is a good item. {{item:3152}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3040}} {{item:3157}} They all create distinct moments to react to / anticipate in combat. They make you change your play pattern to approach them and I think that is good.
: New Banshee's Veil could warp mid lane.
The cooldown is so long at the earlier levels that if you just poke them now and again it will never come up.
: Well kass is viable and doesn't have any balance issues but personally don't like how he's like a reverse assassin where he has no real power early but his late game is strong. Not to mention after this he'll be the only assassin who can't really jungle nor even has pseudo wave clear.
He has some waveclear on his E. Also, in melee matchups he can get control of the wave pretty easily with the on hit damage of his W
: Yasuo R not Working!
Ayyyy at least I can solo lane on PBE safely now.
: Jarvan vs Katarina's E
Need a rundown of what happened (inputs etc) Need steps to recreate. Also, if you can make a copy of the clip where we can see his cooldowns and buff bar, that would be great.
: Critical Gold shift in jungle necessary.
Krugs take so long to clear now that a botlane krugs start might not be viable because they would be so late to lane
: It's swinging top and mid too much do you not understand how unhealthy it is? Even master and challenger hope for their removal cause: It's for anyone "hey look i forced a trade but since im healthier and can shove lemme grab the plant for free hp and mana which they can't deal with" It's idiotic to even comment if you can't see how it'll break laners. Jungle it's fine for but not laners who actively trade with another player constantly. The other plants are fine and good aside from slight clunky issue of vision plant. But healing plant needs removal or exclusive to smite that way additionally a jungle has to be near and use their smite for a laner to grab it. But right now it's been my fear from announcement and after using it, it's retardly broken. Don't say some dumb comment on why the healer should stay as currently is please, at least say another way to completely gimp it or extremely inconvenient way towards laners.
"Don't say some dumb comment on why the healer should stay as currently is please, at least say another way to completely gimp it or extremely inconvenient way towards laners." In other words - "Please don't argue against me, if you do I will just say your argument is retarded or stupid or something meaningless. If you are going to reply, only do it if you agree with me"
: Cinderhulk Is Indirectly Nerfed
I think that, without SoA, Jungle Olaf will look to Fervor / Warlords like Top Olaf did / does.
: Problem with rengar
Using an empowered ability gives you the movespeed bonus, now.
: click bait was not my intention just needed something in there short duration yes but long enough to kill something that didn't die by the clones aftermath witch is completely unfair, if you servive the original clone bs you shouldn't have to worry about toy boxes killing you wtf "removed power" where because his kit has not changed unless some number was nerfed to a ton, i don't ever want to see this hit live other wise im banning shaco till it is taken off live
Shaco has MASSIVELY reduced invis duration at early ranks of Q. Something like 1.5 seconds now. that, coupled with the changes to his Q dmg (now donus dmg, not crit) means that unless he ranks Q early, his ganking potential falls through the floor. Issue here is, Shaco like to rank E early. Especially now that it has per-level execute scaling it is vital that E get ranked quickly. The changes definitely made shaco better at dueling people that walk into his traps, but it nerfed his ganking by quite a bit.
: Riot isn't in control of your actions, you are. As such, Riot won't be responsible for whatever you do~
Also, Isn't there a certain thread for feedback on each Assassin?
: why does shaco's......
A) Why did you need to employ clickbait here? B) They are very short duration boxes that provide light CC. C) Consider where they REMOVED power from his kit to allow for the 3 boxes.
: Ivern and krugs
Have you tested it? Because you should bc I am currently in class and cannot.
: I share similar concerns, but for somewhat different reasons. I just finished up a match with a Rengar jungle. Admittedly, it was my first time using the new Katarina. Regardless, the Rengar got fed early; and the snowball started. I totally agree that assassins are falling off too quickly on current live servers; but going back to the era of solo carrying is regressive to league of legends. Riot said they wanted to take Rengar's burst from being a 1sec combo to a 1.5-2 second combo. In my previous match, I was LITERALLY 100-0 in .28. Once again, I'll admit to being mechanically weak all game due to it being my first game of the new Kata. However, I find it to be incredibly frustrating that a newly reworked assassin, similar to the old days, can pick up two or three kills against their lane mate and snowball out of control. I am not saying this is what happened, but the thought of a rengar picking up a double kill on a trash bot lane then diving a squishy mid laner is horrifying. Assassins are generally regressive to the "team focused" style of League; but these changes seem to step over the line TOO far. It reminds me of the reworked Garen and Darius. If nerfs don't come before preseason, Riot will realize these champs are not currently balanced shortly after the patch goes live.
That is what Preseason is for. Testing wild and crazy things with time to change them and balance them before the Ranked Season starts back up.
: i did it with leap + hydra no spells.
Yeah, sounds like you were EXTREMELY fed.
: Honestly I don't think I had any of those, but even if I did that doesn't explain the icon disappearing
Oh I missed the Icon bit. Yeah that is quite odd.
: > [{quoted}](name=Spaceman5pff,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Rn2w42n7,comment-id=000a0000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-19T20:49:30.265+0000) > > You should probably start making threads about Diana then, or Akali. > Why don't I just make you a list of people who have significant problems pre 6. > > {{champion:84}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:19}} and plenty of other champions only really unlock at level 6. > It is ok to have power gated by your ultimate. Dont you get the idea of people going krugs to wraiths to red to ganking top with 5 stacks? That was common route for 70% of rengar mains, others were invading or rushing for lvl6, and now every rengar needs to rush lvl6? That makes rengar prey for literally every jungler as everyone knows his route and he cant do shit about it. And 1 more thing, out of those champs, Diana has hard cc on her e, Fiddle on his q and e(light cc on his e) ww was never able to gank pre6 anyways and Akali and Kassadin arent junglers, neither 1 of them is getting taken something from them, Rengar is getting taken 1 of his best strategies.
The CC on their base kits was not overlooked. I do agree that it is a bummer he lost his ability to maintain 5 stacks for invades. What I do not agree with, is the arguments made by other people saying that it is not OK to gate power with level 6.
: [Assassins] Rengar Feedback Thread
Starting to feel like maybe Rengar needs more of the Q damage loaded into the 2nd strike? Maybe that is not the correct way to go as it would become too dodgeable, but while playing both as and against rengar I am feeling like too much damage is happening too fast for a rework meant to somewhat slow that down.
: I killed someone in .24s with this rework.
I suspect EXTREME snwoballing to the point of killing them with just the leap crit and a Q
: [Rengar] Bonetooth necklace passive falls off
Lose Elder Drake buff? Did you have a red pot time out? There are quite a few sources of AD in the game outside of items, maybe you were utilizing one and it timed out.
: [Krugs] - When the split from bigger krugs, they can fly over the wall
Also, the smaller Krugs get, the harder they are to click on, which is a bit annoying.
: Please refrain from preventing discussion because of your opinion of non-constructive comments in a POST that is not constructive in its own right. There is no clutter because this isn't even on the first page of the new listing anymore.
: Then you realize how this is worthless? It's not feedback there's hardly any information given. What did you want from posting this eks dee?
Please refrain from generating clutter via non-constructive comments. EDIT: Just realized I recognized his name, checked my match history, and this guy was in my game last night. LMAO he was afk for like 15 minutes then kept running at our team dying saying we were hacking his ult.
: I agree. If she can't shunpo to wards, she shouldn't be able to shunpo to plants either.
They may very well be coded as units, not objects, and this may be intended.
Rioter Comments
: Can't play PVP at all
I can't even select PvP right now, what gives! I get the same issue as you!
: Im talking about Jarvan getting the item to stop people from dashing out of his ultimate.
gotcha, i completely missed that /s, despite picking up on the first two. I suck.
: > [{quoted}](name=Spaceman5pff,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Rn2w42n7,comment-id=000a00000002000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-10-20T17:54:00.644+0000) > > You use the Kassadin comparison as if Rengar does NOT have a good lategame. > > Rengar has quite a good lategame, at least as much as a melee assassin can have a good lategame. > > Don't shame me for pulling out the mad card when my character was under fire from the start. > > I would like a link to a confirmation of a Diana rework and a Fiddle rework. If, as you both said, ALL of those champs I listed are getting reworked, I would like to see that. fiddle already got a rework and he is fine and the next class rework is going to be the diver rework aka aatrox diana etc etc im not comparing rengar to kassadin but YOU ARE, look at your comment above lol are you trying to look like dumb or just trying to farm negative karma??
I never said fiddle was not fine. He has a heavy power gate at level 6, which is very appropriate given the power in his ultimate. Fiddle having been reworked is entirely irrelevant to Rengar. Wonderful that they are doing divers. Please link to me the confirmation that Diana will be looked at. Nasus didn't get touched during the Juggernaut update, Varus didn't get touched in the ADC rework. Why should we just assume Diana will be reworked in the Diver update? Yes, I did compare Kassadin to Rengar as both being gated by level 6. What I did not do, was say "yeah BUT Kassadin has a strong lategame". That statement denies that Rengar has a strong lategame.
: Rengar's new R
Wait, an assassin is doing it wrong if they flank the enemy team for easy access to priority targets? Man, I am some kinda stupid for thinking I should be positioning myself around the path of least resistance.
: That's quite a nerf i mean if she has all of these E resets, she cant for example tower dive correctly without any sort of risk if she can't jump to ward. But maybe that'll introduce some different mechanics like before u jump on the enemy u W out of tower range and then jump with E to dagger to escape.
What you can W is q the enemy, then W -> shunpo onto them to catch the q dagger -> shunpo resets -> shunpo BACK to the W dagger. EDIT: I'm dumb, you just said that.
: Edge of Night is cool... but...
On the topic of Jarvan's ult - He is CC immune during the leap so even Poppy's Steadfast Presence wouldn't stop it.
: > The conditions don't matter Lol are you trolling me or you are really slow? how the conditions doesnt matter??? kassadin have a bad early stage to compensate the strong late game and fiddle have both balanced stages of the games, the others are getting reworked for something right... > All that matters is that you are mad look at me im spaceman i cannot say a decent argument so i found a really flawless logic but someone bashed her so lets say that person is mad/sad/crying etc etc > so you should be fighting for these champions too. Like i said they are getting reworked for some reason...
You use the Kassadin comparison as if Rengar does NOT have a good lategame. Rengar has quite a good lategame, at least as much as a melee assassin can have a good lategame. Don't shame me for pulling out the mad card when my character was under fire from the start. I would like a link to a confirmation of a Diana rework and a Fiddle rework. If, as you both said, ALL of those champs I listed are getting reworked, I would like to see that.
: You're really REALLY stupid. Literally ALL those champs are getting reworked and kassadin pre-6 has a non skillshot slow. after 6 he can teleport around as much as he wants as long as he has mana. the only other person who should be questioned is fiddle and he has a fear a slow and a drain. as of right now they ALL have a better pre 6 or will have a better pre 6 than rengar
The only way Diana would have a better pre-6 that Rengar is if Rengar's brush leaping passive was on him ultimate. Can you link me a confirmation of Diana's upcoming rework? I really like her and completely missed that announcement. Same goes for Akali. If you honestly think her rework will change that, then be my guest; but guess what didn't change with Rengar's rework? His power gate tied to level 6. Just like Katarina's rework didn't change her jumping around a ton, and Leblanc's rework didn't change her being able to combo for HUGE burst, Akali's rework will not change her level 6 power gate. Now let us look at your comments: Kassadin has a non skillshot slow pre-6: yes, and it has 2 forms of cooldown (cd time AND a charge system). Let us not forget that it is a slow in a ~45 degree cone that you aim. A non-targeted ability that you aim? Sounds like a skillshot. Fiddle (as a jungler, since that is his primary role) can only gank pre-6 if the enemy has extremely poor ward coverage, since his only hard cc sends the enemy directly away from him; he MUST come in from behind them, otherwise his fear is nothing but a slow. Also, since the target moves away during the fear, they often just LEAVE his drain radius. TL:DR Fiddle can only gank ignorant laners pre-6. Warwick, well we can assume things about what he will be, or you can realize that we have no idea how good his pre-6 will be post-rework. But for now, and the next year until he is reworked, we have what we have. Even more champions with big level 6 power gates: {{champion:238}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:4}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Spaceman5pff,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Rn2w42n7,comment-id=000a0000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-19T20:49:30.265+0000) > > You should probably start making threads about Diana then, or Akali. > Why don't I just make you a list of people who have significant problems pre 6. > > {{champion:84}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:19}} and plenty of other champions only really unlock at level 6. > It is ok to have power gated by your ultimate. that´s why ww is gettint reworked next year, fiddle is not that bad, diana getting reworked maybe for the diver update and rengar is not like that... he already got a lot of "counterplay" that ferocity change made his ganks really bad they also reduced the slow duration of his normal e. by the way kassadin have a super retarded strong late game and akali is getting reworked maybe her laning phase is better you really should review your arguments ...
The conditions don't matter, though. All that matters is that you are mad that rengar is gated by getting level 6, so you should be fighting for these champions too.
: > [{quoted}](name=Spaceman5pff,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Rn2w42n7,comment-id=000a00000002000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-19T20:25:35.502+0000) > > you can leap with your ult.... pre-6
You should probably start making threads about Diana then, or Akali. Why don't I just make you a list of people who have significant problems pre 6. {{champion:84}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:19}} and plenty of other champions only really unlock at level 6. It is ok to have power gated by your ultimate.
: > [{quoted}](name=Spaceman5pff,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Rn2w42n7,comment-id=000a000000020000,timestamp=2016-10-19T18:31:05.690+0000) > > Leap into combat (1 stack) Q (1 stack) W (1 stack) E (1 stack) now you have 4 ferocity and your snare is immediately available. lol sorry if im getting a bit agressive but are you dumb?? tell me how are u going to gank mid lane by leaping? top lane only if i get in position to pull of a jump, this means the needs to be shoved lol
: Instead, post it here in the [Official Talon Feedback Thread](http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/AZZhU1PU-assassins-talon-feedback-thread).
Your name is Cartman in Bostonian.
: oh i might've overlooked that lol ty for bringing that to my attention however he can actually do some good damage now ( as full tank ) and i feel like that was the one thing that kept Alistar somewhat balanced in my opinion
If you look at how much damage he did from this as his passive (due to it being far less windowed / active more often) and the loss of bonus AD during his ultimate, you will realize that this isn't that bad, and is shaping up to be no real change in damage once 6 rolls around. Pre-6, however, he definitely has stronger all in power. Also, even if he hurts more, his self-sustain is actually a bit worse now so he is much easier to poke out of lane. (as OP said) Overall, I would say this is for the better in the long run. Alistar should be the support pick for when you wanna fight all the time forever. In lane, roaming, midgame, teamfights EVERYTHING. Unfortunately, on the live server he is picked to sustain in lane and win in grouping. Hopefully this shift of focus from sustain lane to scrappy brawler will help him find that niche.
: His new Q animation needs to be faster it feels kinda sloppy now. I know that it was made to slow his burst combo down but it somehow feels just kinda off....
You gotta account for differences between what you are used to / expect and what is actually happening now.
: I'll look into that, thanks.
If that funcionality remains, could we have it written in to the tooltip? (for 0.2 seconds after leaving brush, rengar can still leap) It would just be good to have for clarity's sake.
: Thanks for the answer but i just remembered right now that ganking with rengar prety much sucks because u cannot get enough stacks to stun someone.Are u planning to do something about that?
Leap into combat (1 stack) Q (1 stack) W (1 stack) E (1 stack) now you have 4 ferocity and your snare is immediately available.
: played him in a bot match two bits of feed back: compared to his old Q the visuals/audio of the new Q feels a bit "wimpy" , old Q was a slam down y'know very predatory , new Q has a lot more finesse to it and feels a bit off. Also, is there any way you could add into the tooltip for bonetooth necklace for how much bonus AD it's actually giving? it's a little hard to appreciate right now.
On the contrary, I felt like his only Q was very autoattacky and didn't feel CHUNKY. I know that is a strange word to use, but I use CHUNKY to describe things like hitting Spinning Axes and Thresh Hooks, things with REALLY solid feedback. The new Q has that CHUNKY feel and I like it lots, though I will say we could do more visually with the empowered Q.
: > [{quoted}](name=Spaceman5pff,realm=PBE,application-id=A4D2003433C8FCD715185A7264A9CC6FDFAD7FEF,discussion-id=hXgK33sW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-19T12:28:32.659+0000) > > There is a chance that it it only meant to trigger on champions, and that the tooltip is missing that info. I've gotten it to work on minions and monsters and am having the same refreshing issue.
Aight then idk. Just throwing ideas around I haven't tested that item yet.
: Talon need buff in Q Range
Every champion, items etc has a feedback thread, this would be best posted there.
: Kha'Zix Update : Void Assault Needs Help
I think you make some good points, however it is worth noting that due to Evolved Q not being the massive nuke tool it is on live, he may find himself using vastly different evolution orders, thus making the last-resort nature of R no longer true.
: You changed rengar's passive so that he doesn't just camp one lane and contiues to stack off him. Don't you worry this could become Zed's problem, i.e. he continues to roam bot for the ADC instead of concentrating on his opponent (AP) mid laner?
That was less about Rengar's gameplay pattern, and more about his theme. (iirc from red posts about it) At least this iteration of zed would allow you to draft directly against him in a meaningful way.
: Katarina's W
Katarina uses her W for a variety of things. -Give yourself an easy escape route from a quick burst trade (Q -> W -> E to the Q dagger to burst opponent +reset shunpo -> E to the W dagger) -Amp your DPS during your ult (if you W and then R without moving, you will catch the w dagger mid-ult and pop the bonus damage whiile ulting. Try to think outside the Box, and you will realize Katarina W is one of the coolest skills in her kit.
: u realize the point your making doesn't mean that plants are a good idea. just because there is information on the map warning you about one plant or another doesn't mean that having to play around a shitty "controlled" gimmick is any more fun. its not the plants themselves that are necessarily a bad idea its types they choose. There is one that gives u a lot of healing in exchange for a slow that dissipate very quickly and a satchel charge these are not good rng elements to introduce into the game controlled spawns or not there will be situations where u get cheesed no matter what you do and it will not be enjoyable at all to be on the receiving end. That why 90% of people dont want this change not because of yasuo ult interactions.
90% of the vocal minority of the community.
: see its pretty easy to misinterpret that because your TLDR had everything to do with the assassins roster update goals, literally word for word and nothing to do with the items update goals which were **not** to give more time for counter play but instead to give assassins more interactive tools to use. The items updates were also literally for the assassin so maybe you just have no idea what your talking about regurgitating bullshit or what but like idn how u could expect anyone to interpret that any other way. HOLY DENSE
Sure, they give the assassins toold, but the new duskblade passive can be denied by warding the brush COUNTERPLAY TO THE OPPONENT The assassin cant choose what spell to block with edge of night. COUNTERPLAY TO OPPONENT Make sense now? I was talking about the assassin update because the assassin update IS both items and champions
: i dont think you have used the item in game yet it lasts 10 seconds!!!! thats long as hell for a spellsheild u can pop it whenever you think that u might get in a fight and just run around and even if u dont get hit with any spells it has a 30 second cd that starts when you use it its up again in 20 seconds. also TL:DR i didnt address the assassin roster at all in the post it was almost entirely about the items and how they are very lackluster. That doesn't mean i want items that make u assassinate targets with no counter play, which is the case on live right now but that is not because of the items that's the assassins kits and i have no problem with them changing that.
"Assassin roster + items update" I said that, because the Assassin update is both roster AND items, they are one and the same, I was not listing 2 separate things. Holy DENSE.
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Spaceman5pff

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