: I agree. Having a constant floating sword seems awfully specific and takes too much in-game space for what it does. You can't have an Orianna Ball-level or Living Shadow-level entity in game (if not _more_ important, judging from how mysterious and dangerous it looks) that can simply slow the enemies in a line and block autoattacks around it for less than 2 seconds. Seriously: **Azir's Sand Soldiers** can dish out thousands of damage in a fight, **Orianna's Ball** can oneshot an entire team + set up an ace, **Zed's Living Shadows** can delete any of your squishies in a matter of seconds... and **Shen's Spirit Sword** occasionally slows and once in a while it gives a short shield. No-- if Shen gets to have a shiny floating sword always present in my screen, it better have **significantly** more functions and be really, really powerful. * Maybe it does heavy % damage when it passes through (taunted?) enemies. * Maybe Shen can blink to its location from a long range and taunt all enemies in an AoE, if he uses E on it (would work wonders with his ulti if the enemies were on top of the target). * Maybe W makes allies in it behave as if they were standing in a brush (invisible, as long as they're not attacking or an enemy is not inside the AoE). * Maybe Shen gets something when he's standing near the sword (e.g. energy regen on every basic attack) and/or something else when he's away from it (4% of Shen's HP as magic damage over 3 seconds on every hit). IDK what you're gonna do, Rito, but you can't create _**another **_ semi-controllable entity I have to pay attention to, for every little mechanic you wanna add. If you're not gonna buff his Spirit Sword (which I would like cause it's awesome) just remove it altogether, make his Q slow all enemies that run away from you in a small AoE around Shen and average the damage to be in between the current with-bonus and without-bonus... and make W a normal AoE that has a delay on it that decreases depending on the number of allies in it, or something. Shen can't have a fucking magic sword floating around that all it does is *slow* me. Suddenly Maokai's Saplings sound like a really interesting skill :O
100% agree. It's the most attention grabbing helper thing and it does next to nothing. It's a floating sword... there's so many cool things they could have done with it but it's essentially just a floating glow stick that does nothing.
: Shen sword mechanics feedback
I really just wish they'd make so when he recalls it, he sheaths the sword and when he has it sheathed and Q's, he throws it. That would make so much more sense honestly. Dragging the sword around just feels weird.
: I do agree that Shen's ability to mitigate damage with his shield and sustain in lane were incredibly important to his identity as a champion. I think those things could have been done in a much more interesting fashion, but removing them entirely was definitely a mistake. I just don't understand why they added the spirit '[glowstick](http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/8BA8Atkd-shen-is-somehow-less-fun-engaging-to-play-than-he-was-before)' sword. It doesn't add what I'd call compelling gameplay, and feels extremely disjointed with the two abilities they decided to preserve (his ult and E). I do like the idea that they're trying to give Shen more in the way of protecting his teammates, but it just doesn't make sense where they've put it. I hope that it isn't too late to take him back to the drawing board. u.u Edit: Because I hate leaving feedback that isn't constructive, I'd like to add a couple of ideas that I think could possibly salvage this Shen update. Q. Why not, instead, a skill shot where he throws his Twilight glowstick a short distance. Enemies it passes through are slowed and take a minor amount of damage. If Shen picks up his sword, his next basic attack steals a small portion of health from his target. This gives him a little bit of sustain, and combos perfectly with his E. It also gives a little counter-play to his kit while preserving that range / sustain bit he needs just to survive against other top-laners. W. Instead of giving him a sad little circle that barely prevents auto attacks (and by that I mean that it doesn't prevent certain procs), why not a zone originating from his location that gives all allies that pass through it a small movement speed boost while running towards Shen and a tiny shield while standing in its location? It would provide a way to support your team and allow them to follow up to your engages easier when placed correctly. Honestly, these ideas maybe aren't the greatest, but I'd rather see something like this than his current rework. As a Shen fan, I'm a bit disappointed.
Hey, I started a thing with the glowstick comment! But I agree with your idea. The sword should function entirely with just his Q. Activate to toss it for a damage and slow, recall to attack with it. That way you can toss the sword into teammates getting auto attacked and hit W to shield them. If the sword is currently sheathed, it could just just put the auto blocking field on top of Shen. That would make WAY more sense and feel more cohesive. Glowstick on a leash is just so weird and non-impactful as it is for being such a big component in his visuals. And honestly if they went with that mechanic, they could have his E even interact with the sword IE maybe giving it a dual functionality. E when the sword is out to shadow dash to it, resheathing the sword and taunting everyone around. Activate E with the sword sheathed could give him some sort of effect IE procing his shield passive with a reduced cooldown or putting the auto attack buff on that effect. There's a lot of cool stuff they could have done.
: Shen Q Change (Make it feel less clunky to interact with)
After you do your E in team fights, it really doesn't feel like Shen does anything other than walk at people and auto attack. I hope they aren't opposed to changing his kit a bit, I haven't seen anyone that liked his new Q yet. It's somehow less engaging than old Shen, and old Shen definitely wasn't the poster boy for engaging play.
: Shen's Rework is really dissapointing
I completely agree with your points, and also think the spirit blade feels really tacked on. It's so much visual clutter for something that's so non-interactive. They should have made it so he could throw it and recall it instead of just having a big glowstick he drags behind him. I was picturing a cool ninja with shadow dashes and reactive parries and stuff but instead we get..... whatever this is. Doesn't seem at all like something a ninja would use and looks more like a big broadsword than a ninja weapon. Also the fact it just stays upright all the time just looks weird.
: I would have to agree that his Q doesnt feel right. He is now a ninja that doesnt throw anything?! what ninja doesnt have something to throw? I do like the mechanic of having to think ahead of your opponent and position correctly however not having to do that and then not be able to use it for damage loses the zone effect of it, in the games I have played everyone but another shen was able to completely zone me off the minions and under tower and without his ki strike and old Q made farming impossible. Shen being zoned is old news but he was always able to farm under tower with some practice with relative ease, now I fear he has zero laning potential at all. A possible idea is that Shen can call his Q to him dealing damage along its path to enemy champions and minions, then he has the ability to throw it back out a distance granting him the auto buff and the slow just as it is now, the ability then goes on cool down. If you dont throw it back out in the set time frame you get the auto buff as if you didnt hit anyone. Just my thoughts, I will play more of him tomorrow and see some other match ups hopefully right now however balance doesnt favor the eye of twilight
I think they intended him to be a jungler, he's got a really healthy / fast clear and his lack of any sort of range doesn't hurt him there. Also his new W blocks jungle camps attacks so that on top of his shield means he doesn't even really need potions. Good ganks too, honestly probably a top tier jungler. Regardless of strength though I just wish Q was more interesting.
Rioter Comments
: Ekko Feedback Thread
Can the VFX on his R clone that follows him be toned down / made more subtle? Having that line that follows him around is pretty much unnecessary because you know you're just going to swap places with your clone that's following when you hit R. Especially on his alternate skin, I find it really distracting. Also this is just my opinion but I really wish his weapon sounded less like a nerf toy hitting them and more... I dunno. Beam saber-ey. It doesn't sound satisfying when it hits. I just feel like I'm bopping them with a plastic tube. Lastly, his mana costs feel REALLY bad, even with mana items he goes OOM faster than a lot of champions. Nothing huge but I think he could use some slight reductions in cost.
Rioter Comments
: I have something to add, i Completely Dissagree with the idea of u Revealing yourself when you use a portal. Ever noticed a random Bard Icon showing up on map ? yeah thats enemy bard Using portals , why Should u see where bard is moving if u dont have vision of the place, just feels wrong. (Fine if u have vision of one part u should be able to see bard but not if he is using it to go faster through the chimes collecting , totaly gives up his position and ruins the Roaming champ that he was created to be)
I honestly didn't even know that was a thing. Sounds like a bug to me, would be nice if we could get a red to confirm.
: If you're looking at Magus, the primary issue with it is the mana. It would be nice if the AP junglers were still capable of donating their blue buff to the midlaner without going OOM. Something even like Athene's passive (restoring mana on kills/assists). And yeah, both these items lack identity. Magus is just Morellonomicon without the passive, and Warrior is a lo-fi Black Cleaver. For Warrior, I think the best course of action would be lowering the AD amount to 30-35 and giving the item lifesteal while fighting champions (let's say 3-5% per enemy champion nearby). Making the item a little bit less about the burst, and giving the AD junglers combat sustain while not giving them jungle sustain.
Magus giving a damage = mana return passive like spirit stone would be awesome IMO and would help those champions out a lot while not allowing EVERY champion to use it like spirit stone did.
: Tanks on Fire - Incoming Cinderhulk + Gromp changes
From testing today, I love cinderhulk, it really helped with Zac's clear speed and I felt like I was getting a significantly useful item at the same speed as others. The damage is also proportionally high early game, which is great for tanks because of their general low damage output. Damage matters less as your team scales into the late game so you can be more focused on engages and utility but its great to be able to have an item that helps your damage output early on as a tank. So great job on the change, its a step in the right direction for junglers!
: Rejuvinating Clairvoyance and Clarity (Suggestion)
Clarity reducing cooldowns would be interesting. Or give those spells a passive when choosing them IE when you take clarity you just have 10% reduced cooldowns or something. Clairvoyance could give you out of combat movement speed or something to help with warding since I imagine mostly supports would take it. Also I think if clairvoyance had a pretty short cooldown, like 20 seconds, it might see more play. It just doesn't affect the game enough as is right now.
: Azir, the worst champ through patch 5.3 and 5.4 . Thoughts on the new Azir W range buff.
I completely agree on giving him back his original W range. Its already awkward enough having zones where you can auto attack, and W is his main source of damage. They should have addressed him some other way because nerfing a characters only way to deal damage when they're already prohibitively difficult to use for most people is just bad business. I would have nerfed Q considering its his primary form of harass and why his laning was so good. Definitely the wrong direction and I think they should reconsider the change considering the win rate drop, and possibly look at him in other areas.
: About The Zac-Changes
I've always felt like Zac's problem is his damage. If you look at all the successful junglers, they actually contribute to kills. Its literally almost impossible to kill someone with just Zac. You HAVE to have a teammate helping you. If he did more damage, he would be fine IMO.
: Bard; and everything a wanderer should be
I really like the idea of his abilities scaling off his chimes. You're really not going to be building much AP with him so for Q and W to be effective late game your team needs to be doing well enough that you have enough gold to buy some luxury items. IMO since the core idea of Bard is his chimes and they perfectly scale because of them being timer based, having his strength increase as the game goes on and he collects chimes would make a lot of sense.
: Bard Champion Feedback Thread
1) Bard seems underleveled pretty often if he roams to get chimes. IMO they should give him significantly more EXP if he's behind in level. 2) It would be cool if chimes recharged your meep count, and possibly even allowed you to stack up meeps past what your passive currently allows you. IE you have enough chimes to passively generate 2 meeps but you can get up to 4 with chimes collected. I think this would help his somewhat low damage output and improve his roaming ganks since it would extend his CC available. 3) Q really should travel further, atleast after it hits a target, maybe extend the range a bit. The projectile speed also feels a little bit too slow. People can just kind of walk away from it, which sucks because it has such short range too. 4) Players should be invulnerable while going through tunnels. its weird getting killed or CCed while you're in the tunnel. Also it would be nice if there was a "suction" range near portals where clicking on it pulled you into it, instead of having to walk point blank into the tunnel to go through it. This would allow you to use your tunnel as a semi escape if you're near a wall and getting dog piled. 5) On his default skin, its hard to read his health fountains. For the alternate skin, the fully powered up health pack is a flower but for his regular one its just a slightly larger green ball, so it would be nice if there was some more visual difference for his shrine at full power. 6) Better AP ratios would be nice considering he only has one offensive ability, not counting his passive. OR! Even better IMO and fitting with the theme of the champion, instead of scaling off AP, his Q and W should scale off chimes! 7) Ult being slightly faster if cast closer to bard would help position it in close combat. Its kind of awkward and slow as it is right now. Also holding a self cast modifier and hitting his ult should cast it directly on top of himself. Just my 2 cents. He feels a little weak right now and is often under leveled because of roaming.
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