: Additional champions to Blood Moon game mode?
Not sure about TF, but I agree with the rest you mentioned. TF is really just a mage who happens to have a teleport spell, imo doesn't fit that well with the rest. (could also be hard to balance)
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Blood Moon Talon!
It's a good skin, I'm really happy to see so much effort being put into my main (since he hasn't seen that since many years ago). I like the recall animation a lot (nice job on this one). First thing I have to say is that his Q melee hit gains a bonus sound effect, which is awesome, but his dash Q doesn't have one. Not sure if this is intended or bugged but I'd have liked some kind off cool blood magic sound on both. His blade is also short, not sure if intended but it looks weird when he attacks people ^^ His W is pretty cool, the bloody magicy effect they have is real cool and it feels like they zigzag forward instead of being thrown in a straight line, feels real cool. The blades themselves seem slightly bland though, reminding me a lot of Dragonblade Talon. The E is simple but effective. I get that people say that there are few particles, but then again that's the same for most of his skins anyway. Slightly more visual stuff could be cool here, but not much. His ultimate suffers from the same issues as his W, very cool effects but the blades inside seem a bit bland. Also the sound effects in his ultimate as not as audible as I'd have liked, maybe you could increase this a little. As for a bonus, his new passive looks absolutely amazing. Such a simple, yet perfect change, I love it. Keep up the good work!
: Aside though he's extremely strong vs melee champions. Like fighters who don't build full tank. Not sure that's a good thing.
I don't know yet, but if his target selection doesn't get improved he'll need that power to at least be scary when he manages to get somewhere...
: UPDATE! For tomorrow: Good news and bad news. Bad news first: * Increasing the wall cooldown CD by 10 at all ranks Okay but now the good news: * Wall cooldown now scales with CDR. So rank 1 CD is now 160. With just 10% CDR, that's already 144, lower than the old rank 1. With 40% CDR that's 96s (36s at max rank). Hopefully this helps the wall CD scale more favorably with game time and functions more like you'd expect it to. Also, adding a very experimental change to see if we can improve the E experience for enemies: * Enemies who see Talon vault over a wall get a quick flash of walls near Talon that are on cooldown.
That's a nice change but......I'm still not seeing Talon do much lategame in terms of killing a priority target. In fact I'd argue there's no reason to pick him over Zed other than his new wall jumping is fun (it definitely is, but please note that current Talon is looking very weak lategame in terms of his gapclosing).
: I barely think that these changes did anything really noticeable about his damage/gameplay issues. I still don't know where I'm about to land, when I use E from an unusual angle and the mechanic itself still doesn't really please me. I think the Q range increases would be the best stuff to do for now. R speed increase might also be a positive change.
Yes, he really needs more ways of actually getting onto his desired target. This is his real biggest issue, while his new playstyle is fun and he definitely feels more skilled, it's as if you're constantly struggling to get to anyone without having a single option to kill them if you can't get within Q range. His damage is not the problem, if anything it's awesome, but as an assassin his gapclosing tools really need more looking at before he will ever be viable.
: I think the problem is not about buffing or nerfing, his power burst is actually pretty high (specially if ahead or when combined with the new items), maybe a bit "too" high, since it allows for a 0.5 sec annihilation, something that I think you guys were trying to get rid off. The WRQ combo is insane... But let me explain why I think he's on the weaker side overall: 1) His E. Its pretty good, specially when roaming early, but late-game it feels kinda useless since the area affected is way too big (even if you jumped just a little fragment of the wall) and the cooldown is too high. Suggestions are: make the E only affect the side of the wall he's hopping over, so he can then hop the same path but on the opposite direction; make it work like Taliyah's Worked Ground, and scale the CD for using the same wall again with level or CDR%; reduce the perimeter affected by the E-Block-Thingy so Talon can hop a big wall multiple times by using different aproaching angles (I know this is true right now for some REALLY big walls, but maybe do it too with just big enough walls like Dragon/Baron pits). I think Talon should feel more Assassin-esque, moving constantly in and out like her Sister-in-law Katarina, and not be forced to over-commit to make his engage worth. Being able to re-position tactically as the teamfight unfolds should be on par with your objective of making assassins more useful on teamfights, and you've been shifting some power into utility already. Keep that insight, it's a good one, and shift a bit more, it's still not quite enough IMO. 2) His reliability. And with this I mean his E reliability and his Q Engage potential. Let me explain: When Talon hops over the wall, most of the time you expect him to travel across it following the direction you chose, in a straight line, much like Riven's Q or Bard's E. But he actually feels clunky sometimes, the path deviates mid-way, he makes really small useless hops over small terrain details, he ends up in the wrong side of a C-shaped wall... As I said, I think that he should be able to travel consistently across the walls he chooses, using the same/similar mechanic as the Magical Journey. Maybe if you fixed this he won't feel as punishing when missplacing the mouse a milimeter off the perfect angle, and his issues with the internal CD of the wall and the massive area affected wouldn't matter as much. But if you not only have to scarcely choose when and where to jump, but also you have to be extremely accurate or else you just waste one of your skills for a longer CD than your Ult... It just feels soul crushing. About the Q engage: since you removed the blink, reduced the range of the dash, and made it so you either get the distance traveled (And sacrifice damage potential) or get the extra Auto-reset and crit-dmg (and lose the engaging tool), you've pretty much forced Talon to wait until level 6 to be able to do something. Without the invisibility, either he has a really good chance to win a trade (for which he needs absurd levels of damage) or he just cannot do what every other assassin does, which is getting to his objective. His current engage is predictable and weak, which wouldn't be a problem if he had some sort fo utility or CC to make up for it... which he doesn't have. It doesn't matter if he's able to get botlane faster than anyone (in case he actually makes it there in time and doesn't mess up the E jumps), he just lacks the potential to reach the enemy ADC and assist with the kill, because his CC is so weak (just the W slow, RIP E Slow...) he just doesn't provide anything useful to the fight besides damage... and you're losing that if you have to use the Q as an engage tool. Since his passive activates with autoattacks, by the time you manage to get the 3 stacks on someone, they have already gone and run far away, (remember we're talking about the laning phase, that moment supposedly when Talon should shine for his roaming, when you still don't have enough CDR to stick consistently to the enemy) unless you flash or get some speed-boost by a Karma or Zilean or something... To sum up: by mixing the old Engage then Damage formula (E then Q) into only one skill (current Q), you're not helping Talon do both at the same time, but rather making him choose between only one or the other. And an Assassin without both just isn't an assassin. His E is not applicable since it's not usable in open field fights, and his Ult is forced to be used as the engage tool (and cannot be saved as an escape utility. In case that's what you intended, good job on that, but what about pre-six? What about reaching those Ranged Mages behind their minions and turrets, what about the whole roaming issue? Perhaps I'm making my points hard to understand. My native language is not English and it's pretty late where I live now, so I'm kinda sleepy. I hope I managed to give a relevant opinion, though.
Yes, after having played Talon some more I still think he's absolutely awesome to play.......but I see 0 reasons to ever pick him. I like him a lot, but any assassin is way more reliable at getting to his target in the current state. While I understand Talon's increased mobility through his E allows him to do other stuff way better, this new pattern so far hasn't worked out at all as far as I have seen, and watching Vayne's diving into Talon knowing he's not able to ever close the gap properly is a very, very sad sight.
: [Assassins] Talon feedback thread
So after playing him even more, here's another bit of feedback I wanted to give: -His laning phase is now seriously fun. You can really make your damage count IF you hit those Ws, and they're pretty awesome so that's nice. -His roaming is cool, simple as that, it's not always easy to make it work but it works well enough most of the time -New Q is cool, in lane it's a great tool to start fights with, lategame its damage becomes significantly lower but instead you do get that 50% crit bonus which makes it relevant again The main thing I've found though, is that he falls off rather quickly. As I got ahead I felt powerful, but the lowish ratio on W and Q (when used as dash) made it so that he felt mediocre as the laning phase passed and midgame happened. Lategame it only felt more mediocre. With Talons W now being more difficult to hit, I don't like the fact that the ratio is a meagre 100%, as the current live value is 120%. Perhaps his passive makes up for it, but it didn't always feel satisfying to land everything in the lategame the way it did earlygame.
: Likely too weak! Got some buffs in for the next build that we're testing, mostly base stats.
Having done a bit more play and such, I've come to the conclusion his current power level is indeed not very impressive. Fair enough it's hard to say right now, but one of the things I noticed was that his laning phase felt even more reliant on his W now, since his old E is gone. I'd like to maybe see the W mana cost slightly buffed, to allow Talon to farm and poke a bit more early on, currently he still gets bullied quite a bit. The Q dash also seems like it lacks some range, everytime it just barely doesn't reach the target which can be slightly frustrating. Something else I have to add is that the time in between him hitting Q and immediately autoattacking after that is very short, might be slightly too fast considering the huge damage he gets from it (especially if you proc that passive). Still though, I love the rework, he just feels like he has such a huge skillcap now since his spells are a lot less easy to land all the time, and he needs to use his E smartly.
And you made mine man, after so many things I was unsure about this rework truly hits every possible spot. If you don't mind me ask, how is he currently performing in playtests and how does his balancing look? Is he (likely) too strong, or too weak, or spot on?
: [Assassins] Talon feedback thread
Alright so you guys wanted feedback, here's a Talon main since season 2 talking. I'll go over each and every one of his spells now, so this could take a long time. Passive: This new passive is quite awesome. Both in terms of visuals and gameplay, it's a lot more interactive than the old passive. The fact that it requires 3 stacks means you have to commit AND you have to hit both ways of your Rake to make this passive happen. In other words Talon's lane interaction has been increased and he feels a lot more fun to play, and a lot more rewarding for appropriate risks. Solid work here guys, definitely. I do want to mention that the current bleed value seems too high, obviously these values aren't final so there's room for balancing there should it be necessary but I'd say you should keep an eye on this. Q, Noxian Diplomacy: This Q is now finally a cool spell rather than "just that auto reset move" that half of the bruisers have. It allows Talon to gapclose a little, will definitely be interesting in melee matchups to try this out together with that passive to see just how hard you can go. The extra damage when used in close range is interesting, it feels like a ton of straight up damage though so maybe that value needs slight toning down too. It does reward him gapclosing with his E somehow, so that's pretty cool, but maybe a 30% increase would be more fair. The leap into autoattack feels smooth (especially considering the PBE 300 ping), so this is a part I really like. W, Rake: Now onto Talon's most awesome current ability, Rake. Rake in lane is your waveclear and laning tool overall. I'm glad to see this part was kept, it still feels like the old Rake in terms of usefulness throughout the game, however it's more dodgeable and has more tradeoffs. This way it's more powerful and fun to use, will also be interesting to trade poke back and forth a bit more with someone like a Zed, as you can now miss it or get only the first hit. I like the higher early damage that transitions into a slightly less upfront burst lategame, and the delay makes this even better and more fair. The less width is also an important feature to keep in mind, but it's still good for clearing minions which is awesome. E, Assassin's Path: This is the wet dream of any wannebe freerunner out there (including myself) so I'll be able to freerun in LoL now too. On a more serious note, this is amazing. The low CD, the low mana cost, it simply feels like Talon is so mobile but at the same time he pays for it with a long cooldown (on the wall itself) and it's somewhat predictable, not as instant as his current E. Good counterplay, good gameplay, fair tradeoffs, and some serious uniqueness here. I cannot even begin to describe how amazing this part of the rework is. There were some rumours Talon would be able to hop over walls, this version though gives you truly nothing more or less, it makes you mobile but leaves you vulnerable in for example the middle of a lane. This again, is a fair tradeoff, something I'm a big fan off. R, Shadow Assault: Finally it's less of an AoE bomb and more off an outplay tool. The damage output is slightly reduced, which is fair, but the higher movement speed lategame and the guaranteed stealth are great tools to set up more outplays with. The ability is the least changed though, which I'm a fan of, but the main issues have been adressed which is good enough. Extra stuff to add: The visuals are simply amazing, Talon feels even more like that murderer assassin who has some nifty tools while he's at the job. Rake and Shadow Assault look amazing now, special mention to the new Shadow Assault's blade turning speed up animation, as it gives both players clarity and spreads awesomeness :D So to conclude: I was a bit scared in the beginning for Talon's rework, but I was also hyped. You've nailed him exactly the way I wanted. He has more outplay potential, the enemy also has more outplay potential against him, he brings a lot more to the table but requires some more skill as well. He looks even more amazing now, and he's unique in the most epic way possible. So yeah I just had to get all this excitement of my chest.....and I just had to applaud you for a rework well done. Now I'm off, I'ma take the Assassin's path outta here and Rake some more foes :D


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