Rioter Comments
: LEONA?!
Anyone Else want to chime in on this?
: I agree with you 100% on this as a person who loves playing Leona when i get support this would make her alot more enjoyable {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}}
Tell your friends to come vote. Up vote thread and let's see if we can get RIOT's opinion
Rioter Comments
: Aurelion Sol feedback aka MUH STARZ WANT BUFFS
1) I think it is bugged. The execute is supposed to work like this: Star deals damage, checks remaining health, if below 25 execute. So at level 1 with no AP and no points in W, you should be executing minions who have 44 HP or less (20+less than 25) I havent been able to get a solid test on it yet though. 2) I think this is probably more on the "getting adjusted" side of things. I felt similar my first 5 or 6 games, but afterward I did fine. You just have to get used to the range and what not. 3) On the recall bit, I agree with you, at least at the point where they come with him through the portal. RIOT has stated though that this is something new they want to try with Aurelion. They are aware of the drawbacks and want to see how (if at all) it affects him once he hits live. Im confident they will be watching this. For the most part though, if you are safe to recall, it won't matter. The big deal is he can't "hide" and "ambush" or "bush juke". Again, RIOT is aware and they are going to be watching it. 4) Im not sure how having that ring constantly visible would be for gameplay. Clarity yes, would lower the skill cap on using W/Q quite a bit though, which would ultimately result in nerfs. I don't think it is that difficult of a mechanic to get used to. It just takes time. :) Good feedback m8. Hope I was more helpful than anything else.
: should it be executing minions who fall below 25 health after taking damage from the star? (aka executes minions with [star damage]+24 hp or less) This. It is there to assist with last hitting. Keep in mind that your friendly minions are also hitting the same targets you are trying to CS, which could happen right after your star hits, putting your target under 25 health, but after the passive stops looking to execute for the last hit.
Update: I tried testing this in a custom game. It seems like it either isn't working or that it is only working some of the time. 1) wait for minion wave to start fighting eachother. 2) stand inbetween melee's and casters. 3) hit S. 4) highlight and watch caster minions hp. At level 1 with a dorans ring and my setup, I should have been executing minions with 50 health (49?) or less. If I put a point in W, it was 60(59?). Seemed VERY inconsistent at best, but I am not the best tester for this. :/
: should it be executing minions who fall below 25 health after taking damage from the star? (aka executes minions with [star damage]+24 hp or less) This. It is there to assist with last hitting. Keep in mind that your friendly minions are also hitting the same targets you are trying to CS, which could happen right after your star hits, putting your target under 25 health, but after the passive stops looking to execute for the last hit.
Awesome! Thanks for the reply! I don't think its been working, but now I can test it!
: Your first paragraph says otherwise, but I'm not denying the realization that Execution is moot (Which is the word you are looking for, obsolete suggests a different logic). Seems silly that quite quickly that the execution seems only valuable at the initial stages of the game. If you were looking for suggestions to help make it more valuable to exist, then having it scale with W, adding 5 to the execution range seems reasonable, no? If not, simply remove it and whatever power balance that is displaced by it can be diverted elsewhere.
Its not even valuable at level 1. See above, my suggestion: Center of the Universe deals 50% increased damage to minions. Fixed
: Center of the Universe' Execute is obsolete
My suggestion: Increase the passive damage by 50% vs minions. Fixed.
: @RIOT about Aurelion Sol Passive
Bumping this. Suggestion: Aurelion Sol's passive does 50% more damage to minions. Fixed?
  Rioter Comments
: A. Sol execute passive
Please RIOT hear us on this.
: Center of the Universe' Execute is obsolete
Hope we can get a red response about this
: Is it too much to ask that we don't have a champion that is brainless to play for once?
He isn't brainless. The micro managment you are suggesting is just overly complicated and would be not worth trying to get used to for maximizing the ability's potential. Its the reason why Pros don't play Draven. He does TONS of damage, but the effort to gain ratio is just not worth. That is what your suggestion would bring. Too much complication for no real payoff.
: Nice idea, but I doubt riot'll change it. When a champs on the pbe, they just make sure all the bugs we report get fixed. They won't nerf or buff or change him at all now this patch. Still like it tho.
You saw that they nerfed his base armor and buffed his armor per level right?
: Karma thoughts. Underpowered?
I play Karma in mid lane. I love baiting people when Im low Health with E, R+W. I always end up with more health than when I started, and usually get a root with a free Q, AA. Karma is difficult to play well, I don't even think Im really all that great with her. But I know this much: if you are only using R+Q and not R+W or R+E, you are doing it wrong. That being said, though she has some good potential, she doesn't bring as much to the table as other supports or mid laners. Her kit in general is very bland (by bland, I mean un-thematic) as well. She has a lot of potential for a champ, I think they just havent hit it yet.
: wind wall originates from Yasuo, so whenever you use your q, as long as it have distance between it and Yasuo, he can block it.
^^^^^ This is probably what you are experiencing.
: Aurelion Sol W/Passive interaction idea
Too much micro management. No thanks :/
: Yeah theres no real way for you to hide as Aurelion if his stars are visible from the brush. I like this idea
This has been addressed already by RIOT. It is working as intended. Aurelion Sol's passive (Center of the Universe) is supposed to be his primary source of damage in his kit. That being said, they thought about it, and thought if they were going to allow him to hide them, the ability to hit someone with it with zero possible reaction time would be too strong. aka, they would have to nerf it, and they don't want to do that. So long as it remains that the Space Dragon creator of stars cannot hide, don't expect any nerfs to his W or his passive. I personally think the trade off will be fair. He can still ambush from unexpected places via his Comet of Legend (E) and he has a fairly obvious and strong weakness. He still can't be targeted by spells while in bush.
: Thats not a bad Idea. Thing is that it is his only activate damage spell other then his Ult (that has a SUPER HUGE LONG CD see post on change Ult) If it scaled it would have to do it quickly as to not have him lose DPS
Yeah, or the base damage would just not need to be lowered as far. What is it now: 70/110/150/190/230 (+.65 AP) If it grew 5% per second to a max 50% increase is damage, it would do max damage 105/165/225/285/345 (+.97 AP) Since it will likely have a 1 second travel time minimum, you wouldn't need to lower the damage much. 65/105/145/185/225 (+60% AP) It is a slight buff to its late game minimum damage, but would allow for some nice damage later, max damage: 98/158/218/278/338 (+90% AP)
Rioter Comments
: Have you tried him on the PBE? The Passive is weak to begin with, it does not do enough damage AT ALL. At a certain point in early game the passive surpasses the execute damage (25) as well, making the execute damage pointless while still doing a Sunfire-Cape kind of damage, only slower because people actually have to get hit by the stars instead of simply being close to them (IE:Sunfire) His Passive only becomes *more* relevant after putting enough points in his W, which is maxed second mostly... So basically his early game is kinda trash and when you do max your W out, most of the champs won't even feel like his passive is even worth dodging and will get really close to him for a safe kill........... smh
I have played him on pbe actually, and I can tell you his passive is not that weak. Once it hits live, Im predicting MAYBE a small buff, but not too much if at all. If you can use it and your W correctly, it does wonderful amounts of damage. Its just not a 1 shot skill, which it shouldn't be because it is on constantly (unless you are flying, or cc'd). I have yet to play a game as him on the pbe where I don't go positive (I think?) And I have been playing him in top lane to avoid mirror matches :P
: I would still like to do surprise attacks.
Just have to settle for surprise attacks from over walls from a mile out. :P A little harder to land, but totally worth when you get it right :)
: Aurelion Sol's Passive Procs Thunder
Also, who cares? You get a lot more bang for your buck constantly procing Death Fire Touch over and over again. :/
: > Keep in mind that you are still untargetable to enemy players (they cannot AA you or use targeted spells against you) even if they know your location. Completely irrelevant. Here is a list of champions that can use this to their advantage: {{champion:103}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:22}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:203}}{{champion:96}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:143}} I think it would have been easier to list champions that couldn't really do much about it. > CotU can retain higher damage values that both Aurelion and his opponents can respect. When missiles are not seen, opposing players would lose respect for a mechanic they cannot react to and lose interest in participating in the gameplay it's intended to provide. The passive damage is lacking a little. > Revealing on hit would allow them to react after the fact, but doesn't provide any counterplay upfront, since the damage is already done at that point. {{champion:20}} and he doesn't get revealed? Here is what I propose. When Sol is in a bush the stars come closer to him just enough to hide in the bush.
Their argument is that if they chose to have it not revealed, that would be taken into account on its power scale. They would rather keep the ability strong, even though it provides a clear weakness to Aurelion, one that is easily taken advantage of. As long as it remains visible from brush, don't expect any damage nerfs to his passive or his W. I guess I can live with that.
: To me this is just an excuse to bad coding, What about Nunu Ult in bushes? Counterplay much?
think more about things like sunfire cape: its passive, deals damage, and doesnt reveal you in bushes Now, because it is a champ ability, as per the norm, as soon as it deals damage, I think it should reveal, not just the ability but Aurelion Sol as well
: Aurelion Sol, the Star Forger can't hide is bushes.
It also prevents outplays with flash dodges, you can't cleverly trick your opponent into thinking you went one way instead of another, because they will see your passive. Since you know how to make videos, can you make one of sunfire cape from brush? I am pretty sure it doesn't reveal you, but I havent tested it yet. EDIT: Just tested and confirmed, Sunfire burn does not reveal you in bushes.
: Everyone of those that you listed are skill based. And not a passive, name a champion whose passive should be revealed. A passive that is always active makes sense, versus a skill that either constantly drains mana, or a skill with a set duration. Revealing information of someone just for using a skill that will go away in 3-4 seconds seems like it would be a huge flaw, more than balanced because of this one new champion.
Ill just reitterate what I wrote above you: {{item:3068}} grants a PASSIVE damage aura that can damage enemies from brush while not revealing your exact location. Illaoi's passive (the tentacles?) reveal that she is SOMEWHERE in the area if they are active, but they do not give away exact location. His passive deals damage, yes, but in such a specific area of affect that I don't think you can justify it being constantly revealed. Honestly, if they just make it like other ACTIVE skill use, aka if his passive deals damage, then it reveals not only the passive but also Aurelion Sol, that would make more sense. He should be allowed to hide in bushes, since a lot of different tactics become unavailable to him, including flash dodges to back from safety.
: Aurelion Sol bug
Yasuo's wind wall blocks ranged projectiles. Aurelion's passive is considered an AoE effect, which windwall has no effect on. #Clarity
: Llama said on stream that his passive is always visible by design, since it can still damage people even if Aurelion himself is not visible.
Seeing his stars pretty well means seeing Sol... I can hide in a bush and damage people with Sunfire cape without being revealed, Nunu can ult/dmg people from bush without being revealed... It just seems inconsistent, not to mention the simple fact that he can't hide. You don't have to guess which bush he is in, nor where in the bush he is.
: Sooo... there is no official thread for him already? If not, I'd like to mention that his Mana cost are pretty low. You can basically play him just with Dorans Ring without facing Mana issues. I think it's mainly his Mana pool being very high in comparison to his Q mana cost.
Without Rod of Ages, he runs oom very quickly in any kind of real fight. Early lane phase, no problems, because you aren't trying to trade heavy with your active abilities. Try being really aggressive with your abilities with just a doran's ring. I think his mana usage is in a good spot atm.
: There's an intentional delay on the Q, so that melee opponents have a chance to fight you after they've made it through the gauntlet of stars. The Ult is your trump card there. That said, you should be able to blow it up ASAP pretty reliably at the same spot (standing still, when the center hits your passive orbit range), even with lag.
have you guys seen the post about Aurelion being revealed in bushes because of passive? Even when not dealing damage?
: There's an intentional delay on the Q, so that melee opponents have a chance to fight you after they've made it through the gauntlet of stars. The Ult is your trump card there. That said, you should be able to blow it up ASAP pretty reliably at the same spot (standing still, when the center hits your passive orbit range), even with lag.
have you guys seen the post about Aurelion being revealed in bushes because of passive? Even when not dealing damage?
: This is intentional. That's great, but we need a whole update on all of these champs because of this however because this is unfair to this champion. {{champion:103}} W no longer is hidden {{champion:32}} W no longer hidden {{champion:1}} Tibber's aura no longer hidden {{champion:122}} Q no longer hidden {{champion:131}} W no longer hidden {{champion:36}} W no longer hidden {{champion:9}} Ultimate no longer hidden {{champion:3}} Ultimate no longer hidden {{champion:41}} Barrel radius no longer hidden {{champion:86}} No longer hidden. {{champion:150}} W and Ult no longer hidden {{champion:79}} Q radius no longer hidden {{champion:120}} W and Q no longer hidden. {{champion:24}} E no longer hidden {{champion:43}} Empowered Q no longer hidden {{champion:30}} E no longer hidden {{champion:55}} No longer hidden {{champion:85}} Ult no longer hidden You get the point. I could be wrong on some of these, but honestly, this is just stupid if it's intentional. You might as well make every ability visible outside of bush. Half the champions of the game have this mechanic in some way. Imagine if when shyvana W'd into a bush she was revealed, or if nunu ulted, or if pantheon ulted. If Aurelion Sol gets this treatment, then every champion in the game deserves it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you can damage enemies with Sunfire cape from brush and not be revealed...?
: Shen is doomed, such a great champion destroyed so hard...i hate Riot for this, they will wake up in a year when Shen won't ever be played in competitive and will have the worst winrates possible in all roles.
Shen is not doomed. He is STILL a great champion. He will not have the worst winrate in all possible roles. Except maybe midlane and adc :P
: New Xin
Xin has always been a low elo "stomp" champ. I dont think this changes anything, other than making it more so. I highly doubt that this change will really affect his performance at higher levels.
: Put all your Shen Feedback here
My current thoughts on Shen: Overall: I like the direction they went, though I think it could use a few tune ups as well. Passive: I feel like its overall good. Its pretty easy to proc, and the cooldown mechanic lets it be up quite a bit late game. Carefully placing your skills can get you two procs in a fight, giving you an effective 25% increase in health practically. Of course, this is still pretty late into the game before it gets that good. Overall though, no real complaints. Q: The Spirit blade. I think this is where the most improvement needs/can be made. Passing it through champions does not feel very rewarding and the extra extra damage seems unnecessary. The slow is pretty weak and only works when they run away from Shen. I have seen several suggestions, but here are my favorites: 1) Have the Spirit Sword deal damage to enemies it passes through. 2) Make the slow a straight up slow, short duration, refreshed by Shen's empowered auto attacks, increase its strength. 3) Instead of getting more extra damage when the sword passes through, give Shen a heal on those auto attacks. So, if you took all of these suggestions, it might read like this: Twilight Assault (Q) 140/130/120/110/100 Energy 8/7.25/6.5/5.75/5 sec Cooldown Shen recalls his spirit blade and draws it. Enemies it collides with are slowed by 40% for the next 2 seconds. Shen's auto attacks can add 1 second to the duration (max +3 seconds) Shen's next 3 attacks deal 3/3.5/4/4.5/5% (+ ~1.5% per 100 AP ) of their target's max health as bonus magic damage. If the spirit blade collided with an enemy champion, it deals damage equal to 2/2.5/3/3.5/4% (+ ~1.5% per 100 AP) of the champions max health as magic damage and Shen's next 3 autos also heal him for 2/2.5/3/3.5/4% (+ ~1.5% per 100 AP) of his max health. Minions and monsters take an extra 30/50/70/90/110 bonus damage per attack. (as a point of balance, I also removed the bonus attack speed.) W: This is one ability Im not sure about. Its potent for sure vs heavy AA team comps, but I feel like it could use something else especially since even certain adc's have a lot of skill burst. My favorite suggestion was to also reduce AoE damage in the area. Wouldn't need to be much, but it would certainly feel a ton more useful, especially late game, since its duration is kind of short. E: Glad it deals physical damage, like that they added HP scaling here, the extra damage makes landing it much more rewarding. The only thing I wish this skill had was 1/2 damage to minions and monsters. Would also be cool if it could taunt epic and large monsters. I think its fine that it no longer reduces damage from autos because of the new shield mechanic. I think its a fair trade. R: Still the same old TP to ally. This skill is awesome and always will be. Base Stats: He needs 2 things in my opinion: 1) Better base armor and armor growth. 2) Increased Movement speed (If light travels so fast, how come its never caught a ninja?) At least 345, if not 350.
: Shahamut guess what! I saw a Shen post from a Red on the main boards... and... it's about his VO{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: Why isn't there a consolidated Shen feedback thread? Why haven't there been Shen adjustments?
My current thoughts on Shen: Overall: I like the direction they went, though I think it could use a few tune ups as well. Passive: I feel like its overall good. Its pretty easy to proc, and the cooldown mechanic lets it be up quite a bit late game. Carefully placing your skills can get you two procs in a fight, giving you an effective 25% increase in health practically. Of course, this is still pretty late into the game before it gets that good. Overall though, no real complaints. Q: The Spirit blade. I think this is where the most improvement needs/can be made. Passing it through champions does not feel very rewarding and the extra extra damage seems unnecessary. The slow is pretty weak and only works when they run away from Shen. I have seen several suggestions, but here are my favorites: 1) Have the Spirit Sword deal damage to enemies it passes through. 2) Make the slow a straight up slow, short duration, refreshed by Shen's empowered auto attacks, increase its strength. 3) Instead of getting more extra damage when the sword passes through, give Shen a heal on those auto attacks. So, if you took all of these suggestions, it might read like this: Twilight Assault (Q) 140/130/120/110/100 Energy 8/7.25/6.5/5.75/5 sec Cooldown Shen recalls his spirit blade and draws it. Enemies it collides with are slowed by 40% for the next 2 seconds. Shen's auto attacks can add 1 second to the duration (max +3 seconds) Shen's next 3 attacks deal 3/3.5/4/4.5/5% (+ ~1.5% per 100 AP ) of their target's max health as bonus magic damage. If the spirit blade collided with an enemy champion, it deals damage equal to 2/2.5/3/3.5/4% (+ ~1.5% per 100 AP) of the champions max health as magic damage and Shen's next 3 autos also heal him for 2/2.5/3/3.5/4% (+ ~1.5% per 100 AP) of his max health. Minions and monsters take an extra 30/50/70/90/110 bonus damage per attack. (as a point of balance, I also removed the bonus attack speed.) W: This is one ability Im not sure about. Its potent for sure vs heavy AA team comps, but I feel like it could use something else especially since even certain adc's have a lot of skill burst. My favorite suggestion was to also reduce AoE damage in the area. Wouldn't need to be much, but it would certainly feel a ton more useful, especially late game, since its duration is kind of short. E: Glad it deals physical damage, like that they added HP scaling here, the extra damage makes landing it much more rewarding. The only thing I wish this skill had was 1/2 damage to minions and monsters. Would also be cool if it could taunt epic and large monsters. I think its fine that it no longer reduces damage from autos because of the new shield mechanic. I think its a fair trade. R: Still the same old TP to ally. This skill is awesome and always will be. Base Stats: He needs 2 things in my opinion: 1) Better base armor and armor growth. 2) Increased Movement speed (If light travels so fast, how come its never caught a ninja?) At least 345, if not 350.
: Why isn't there a consolidated Shen feedback thread? Why haven't there been Shen adjustments?
I would really like a thread for Shen... AT LEAST give us your thoughts on this Shen and have a discussion with us about how we feel about it RITO
: Dunno if anyone else has noticed, but the patch today removed the vision that your Spirit Sword gives you passively. I've yet to notice any significant changes to abilities though, so they're aware of Shen, just not communicating it seems.
: If a new champion comes out and you open a chest there is no guarantee that the shard you get will be for the new champion. You do get champion shards for champions you already own. The only way to be guaranteed to get the new champion would be to re-roll three other champion shards. Breaking them down into essence would be a bad idea.
Right, so you break them down into essence, then when you have a good stock pile, just save them and reroll for new champs. Eventually, in theory, you will have everything. By your same line of thought, why should I get a champion shard for a champ I already own, even if I don't already own them all? Making it where you dont ever get drops you dont need becomes problematic in the future as well. Lets say, you don't get champ drops because you own all champs, so you also dont get essence drops either. What happens when that new champ comes out? Now you have to grind getting that same champ shard over and over again until you also have enough essence to unlock him? TLDR- Just save and break down into essences or reroll when new champs come out. Its already a system for free stuff, some of which (SKINS?!) used to only be available via RP. RIOT is obviously interested in more than just $$ if they are willing to do that.
: [Master Shen EUW][Toplane] The most complete and explicative feedback about the recent Shen update.
I like the new Shen. I think the sword should be "twilight's eye". I also think it would be good if when it passed through a champion (when using Q) that instead of "more damage" you got some sustain for those 3 hits based on Shen's max HP.
: [SUGGESTION] Can we stop reciving Champion shards if we own all champions?
Just break them down into essence. Then when a new champ comes out, get his shard and boom, new champ. :P
: [Master Shen EUW][Toplane] The most complete and explicative feedback about the recent Shen update.
Good post. Hope RIOT looks at it. I personally don't want Q's bonus damage made physical. Its part of what keeps the damage viable atm, and its bonus damage from a spirit blade, so magic damage, at least in my mind, makes sense. I would like to see either a boost in its damage as you suggested or some healing put in when Q manages to pass the spirit blade through an enemy. W not blocking on hit effects is probably a bug. When they updated dodge a while back, they made it to where dodging or otherwise negating a basic attack negated any "on hit" mechanics since the attack doesn't "hit" its target. Good catch on that. I didn't realize they nerfed his base stats so hard. They removed healing completely from his kit. You would think leaving his base stats alone or buffing them would have made more sense. :/ Since, you know, hes a TANK.
: Personally, I like new Shen. I wish his passive was on-hit rather than on-cast though; would give mini-skirmishing shields through the Q autos and make it more central to his kit rather than the shield disappearing by the time you get there (it feels like it does).
I like the new Shen. I think the sword should be "twilight's eye". I also think it would be good if when it passed through a champion (when using Q) that instead of "more damage" you got some sustain for those 3 hits based on Shen's max HP.
: Actually they were thinking about a Shadow Clone instead of a Sword iirc. It would make sense to have a clone who could dash towards your location and defend you when you activate W. I would like if it could grand a vision tbh.
just tested, the sword does grant vision. This is good at least.
: I can guarantee you it does. I use it as a river ward when playing as support, and I use it to keep an eye on jungle camps in top lane. Check it yourself when you get the chance.
Im going to look into that
: I think I'd be frustrated by him keeping it in the river all day long X/ or in the side bush... or tribush... especially if he's bot lane. Forcing him to go to that spot first is better imho. We'll see how they tweak him Monday though; I enjoy playing him so far but he "needs" something due to the base-resistance gutting that they did. In the right hands and matchups he will be very strong when he hits live though. The situational CC block on W is very useful; something old Shen would have been broken with.
I can agree with that. I was only thinking about being able to set up your Q to go through enemies a bit easier.
: That's fair enough. I don't think the current iteration is beyond redemption but I don't think that Shen should be further complicated. League NEEDS champs that are simpler to play. The old Shen was easy to pick up but took work to master. They could have fleshed out his kit so that there was more room for skillful play with simple concepts, but...instead they chose a map entity that you have to drag around. I really, really think that the spirit sword is just a bad idea, especially in light of his old Q. Keep in mind that Riot balances on a power budget. If you're not familiar with the concept, a champion with hard CC, for example, will have lower damage scaling than a champion completely without. If Shen's Q gives vision and true sight they're going to need to nerf something else on him - Q damage, cooldowns, values, etc. I have a feeling a significant part of his power budget is already in his W, since dodge is a big deal (which is why I'm in favor of just trashing his new W). "Gives vision" is a big deal, too. Imo instead of incorporating those to improve the lackluster skills' quality of life, they should just scrap those skills and give us something worth using, especially if they're having an impact on overall power budget.
I really think they undershot on his power budget anyway. Seriously. Vision is a big deal, and as a tank with very little in the way of cc, I think giving him a vision focused kit (which fits thematically with his concept of being a sound judge and a protector) would be a good way to go. Ridding the extra extra damage from Q passing through enemies for sustain just helps his solo lane. The truesight stuff only is a big deal vs champions that stealth, which there aren't that many. At that point, it means that shen actually has some people that he is a hard counter to. TLDR- I don't think power budget is the issue. I just think he needs more utility and theme. Vision being the best way to do that in my opinion. It would allow him to contribute to the team with more than just a single low reliability taunt and an ult. Heck, remove the dodge from his W and make it slow and reveal an area. Either way, 1.75 seconds of "dodge basic attacks" is not going to matter come late game.
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Shahamut

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