: [Bug or undocumented change] Grasp of the Undying for melee champs only grants 0.75% of maximum HP.
F12 is screenshot btw. pls dont be a pleb and take screenshots with your phone. :P
: [Bug or undocumented change] Grasp of the Undying for melee champs only grants 0.75% of maximum HP.
it also gives less healing. at 1000 health it should heal 40 health with a proc. it only heals 35.
: Grasp should not stack off of non-champions anymore.
you cant. you have to proc another grasp to refresh the buff or you lose it after 12 seconds. you can only get the proc ready by fighting minions but it will not help you keep the stacks.
: New Grasp Lacks a Clear Niche
grasp was always a rune that was aimed at fighters and not tanks. tanks can still take it, but they have aftershock or guardian. mundo is no tank. mundo is a juggernaut which is a type of fighter. it is really strong on him when he can stack ad from grasp. his e gives him massive ad from health and grasp adapts to the bonus and gives him even more ad. what you are talking about is exactly the goal of the rune. fighters who stay in combat are supposed to be rewarded with increasing stacking damage. if you dont peel them and make their stacks fall off or you take them down quickly, they keep growing into a large threat and turn into huge carries. it takes a long time to get stacked. most fights wont last long enough to get more than 3 stacks.
: [Balance Feedback] Do not follow the teemo nerf.
teemo is op on live and destroys all the bruisers top. he needs nerfs. the tank teemo build is the most toxic thing i have seen since tank fiora and tank ekko. he shouldnt even be allowed to buy frozen mallet.
: grasp values are still not correct
tested ability power values and AP is correct at 1.25% max health. but healing is still 35 at 1011 health.
Rioter Comments
: This grasp will definitely delete ornn (and shen?) Because they lack about a true scale and will make thing like phantom dancer hp vayne top real because it will give u a tons of free ad. Maybe something like gnar and urgot will be op to have against and half capping this for ranged wouldn't make it balanced (i will enjoy to play karma ap tank top with that). I think they only need to buff ad ratio to every single fervor user (trynda and yasuo inclused) so the meta wouldn't swap so easily (also fighters have alredy getting som buff by nerfing bramble / buff cleaver) I hope grasp wouldn't change into this thing...
> [{quoted}](name=BalckA98,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=ZU88BfLZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-12-06T06:45:01.436+0000) > > This grasp will definitely delete ornn (and shen?) Because they lack about a true scale and will make thing like phantom dancer hp vayne top real because it will give u a tons of free ad. > Maybe something like gnar and urgot will be op to have against and half capping this for ranged wouldn't make it balanced (i will enjoy to play karma ap tank top with that). > I think they only need to buff ad ratio to every single fervor user (trynda and yasuo inclused) so the meta wouldn't swap so easily (also fighters have alredy getting som buff by nerfing bramble / buff cleaver) > I hope grasp wouldn't change into this thing... no one cares if ornn and shen cant pick grasp. the keystone was made for fighters and not tanks. ornn and shen can pick aftershock and guardian. a lot of fighters only have grasp. ornns damage scales with resistances, shens damage scales with health.
Rioter Comments
: As a mundo main, I feel this is a terrible idea. its bad enough that they are removing the health stacking from grasp and reducing grasp damage while hes still a weak champion. He needs the damage now from the stacking grasp, otherwise, what would be the point of playing him over Darius or Cho'gath?
> [{quoted}](name=zzzzsleepyzzzz,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=ZU88BfLZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-06T00:27:59.187+0000) > > As a mundo main, I feel this is a terrible idea. its bad enough that they are removing the health stacking from grasp and reducing grasp damage while hes still a weak champion. He needs the damage now from the stacking grasp, otherwise, what would be the point of playing him over Darius or Cho'gath? also the health stack mechanic sucks. im saying this as a juggernaut main. it makes you feel too pressured to stack the health in lane and it feels bad when you cant. the bonus ad/ap are much nicer, if they wouldnt stack to insane amounts.
: As a mundo main, I feel this is a terrible idea. its bad enough that they are removing the health stacking from grasp and reducing grasp damage while hes still a weak champion. He needs the damage now from the stacking grasp, otherwise, what would be the point of playing him over Darius or Cho'gath?
> [{quoted}](name=zzzzsleepyzzzz,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=ZU88BfLZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-06T00:27:59.187+0000) > > As a mundo main, I feel this is a terrible idea. its bad enough that they are removing the health stacking from grasp and reducing grasp damage while hes still a weak champion. He needs the damage now from the stacking grasp, otherwise, what would be the point of playing him over Darius or Cho'gath? do you understand how the new grasp works? every proc that you get while in combat gets you 1% of your max health in ad or 1.6% of your max health in ap. around early game thats already 8 to 11 ad per stack just with an item such as a phage. midgame this is easily 35 ad PER STACK. i literally had 90 bonus ad in lane against a riven, because i got to 8 stacks by trading with her and staying in combat against minions. do you understand how much ad you can stack over the course of a fight? if you think thats going to make it to live as it is, im sorry to dissapoint you. there is no chance of that happening. id rather have riot stop at the first proc and just give us the 1% than dropping the entire idea just because the stacking is insane. we also have the problem that it would mean another round of bruiser assassins who just stack tank items and then get massive bonus ad off multiple grasp stacks in fights and start assassinating everyone with the high bonus ad scalings on their abilities. imagine full bruiser {{champion:114}} with 120 bonus ad off 3 grasp procs by midgame. 1 stack of 40 bonus ad is really good amount. thats a {{item:1038}} worth in ad. it should stop there and not stack further.
Rioter Comments
: Heya! I get what you're talking about with your concern - we actually have a plan in place for Cass and a few other champs that just...literally...can't use a rune. There's a little weirdness on our end where we can't really tell what champion you are until you hit the loading screen - because you could possibly trade or reroll, etc. Or like, you might be making the page before champ select but intending to use it for Cass or something. This means we can't really *prevent* you from picking the rune or warn you very well. But, we do know it's an issue to have a completely dead rune. So, for someone like Cass we actually have a little check at the loading screen stage where it will change that specific rune to a different one you can use in the slot - in this case Future's Market, I believe. So that way if you're new to Cass and don't know about her passive you won't accidentally end up with something useless. I don't actually think these fallback cases handle practice tool at all though, hence why you wouldnt see it - we'd like them to but we have a lot to work on for Runes in live games before we can focus on practice tool integration or support.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=hc1xvE4H,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-27T18:47:00.089+0000) > > Heya! I get what you're talking about with your concern - we actually have a plan in place for Cass and a few other champs that just...literally...can't use a rune. > > There's a little weirdness on our end where we can't really tell what champion you are until you hit the loading screen - because you could possibly trade or reroll, etc. Or like, you might be making the page before champ select but intending to use it for Cass or something. This means we can't really *prevent* you from picking the rune or warn you very well. > > But, we do know it's an issue to have a completely dead rune. So, for someone like Cass we actually have a little check at the loading screen stage where it will change that specific rune to a different one you can use in the slot - in this case Future's Market, I believe. So that way if you're new to Cass and don't know about her passive you won't accidentally end up with something useless. > > I don't actually think these fallback cases handle practice tool at all though, hence why you wouldnt see it - we'd like them to but we have a lot to work on for Runes in live games before we can focus on practice tool integration or support. thats a bad plan. pls make runes work for all champions. champions like {{champion:83}} are unable to take resolve: aftershock. please change resolve: aftershock from "immobilizing" to "impaired movements or actions" like domination: cheap shot so more champions can use it with slow or other cc. {{champion:86}} is the only silence champion who cant take resolve: aftershock. it would be a good rune on him. {{champion:122}} can take it with his pull. why not garen or yorick?
: Isn't it the PBE supposed to be for Honor 3 or more players only?
honor 3 is really really easy. everyone starts at honor 2. maybe all people should start at honor 0 next season. make more honor levels like mastery to lvl 7. give better rewards for great honor and let people on the pbe when they have honor 5 to 7.
Rioter Comments
: I think runepaths automatically selecting basestats is a huge problem for certain champions
make a 7th rune slot. the slot alows to chose one stat bonus. attack speed, ad, ap, health, better potions, cdr. maybe others.
: Reworks
{{champion:10}} {{champion:25}} are planned for a dual VGU! after {{champion:50}} {{champion:39}} is {{champion:266}}
: Deathfire Touch and Fervor of Battle SUBSTITUTES
garen never used dft because of bad base damage and bonus ad scaling of dft. it would be awesome if we had a buffed dft keystone rune in sorcery.
: Possible fixes for Dark Harvest
give ranged penalty and remove souls from allies.
Rioter Comments
: Mana regen after removal of Meditation
there is a precision mastery that gives you fee spells on level up. take that too and you dont have mana problems.
: pls nerf doombot malzahar
every game against malzahar bot lost in 5 minutes. his zz rot is unstoppable. no one can fight his minion spam and destroy his zz rot minions fast enough early. pushes down turret in one or two minutes and then groups with other bots to do the next and the next.
: [Runes Feedback] Runes that dont work on Garen but should (and why).
disappointed. silences still do not work with aftershock and dark harvest and kleptomancy still need ranged penalty. please fix.
Rioter Comments
: true true but this is on a nasus how about a ranged carry already running these items its absolutely insane.
> [{quoted}](name=Frozen Boar,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=czTNFAGd,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2017-10-16T21:15:36.895+0000) > > true true but this is on a nasus how about a ranged carry already running these items its absolutely insane. two changes to the rune. make it not stack off allies anymore. reduce effect for ranged over melee. you are correct, that it is a lot easier to stack and use dark harvest stacks by poking with ranged than with melee. kleptomacy needs the nerf for ranged champions too. its gamebreaking on champions like ezreal who can constant poke, and much weaker on melee champions who cant fight a lot (except gangplank).
: it's NOT the same though, dude. go watch Sirchez latest videos of dark harvest Nasus and you'll see what i mean. he's proccing it for 1/2 or 3/5s of a top laners HP 12 minutes into the game. also he now one shots your ADC. he actually really doesn't have much of a weak point anymore with dark harvest and it's ridiculous. even if you don't let him AFK stack he's going to dump on something, trust me. he'll be +6ing champions, anyway. it's bad when nasus can flash and one shot a squishy 20 minutes into the game, that's not how it's supposed to work and you know it.
> [{quoted}](name=Im Not Irelia,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=czTNFAGd,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-10-16T19:11:15.562+0000) > > it's NOT the same though, dude. go watch Sirchez latest videos of dark harvest Nasus and you'll see what i mean. he's proccing it for 1/2 or 3/5s of a top laners HP 12 minutes into the game. also he now one shots your ADC. he actually really doesn't have much of a weak point anymore with dark harvest and it's ridiculous. even if you don't let him AFK stack he's going to dump on something, trust me. he'll be +6ing champions, anyway. it's bad when nasus can flash and one shot a squishy 20 minutes into the game, that's not how it's supposed to work and you know it. sirchez is a master level nasus main against a mixed set of pbe players from any elo, including bronze, silver, and whatever. yes i have seen the video and i have seen how insanely stacked he was with 450 stacks at 20 minutes and how he had 5 levels on his enemies and how he almost 1 shot them without a dark harvest stack. because that is what a fed nasus does. youtube videos are carefully picked compilations of many games, where the player looks as good as possible. not close to reality. they dont show you all the games that were even or where they lost and only the few total stomps.
: I agree after playing around with Irelia JG I can see this keystone is BUSTED. lol forget Irelia Qing your adc for 1300... how bout a freaking UNKILLABLE FULL TANK NASUS that's been AFK stacking top (or champions because this is busted) all game. what are you supposed to do against that?
> [{quoted}](name=Im Not Irelia,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=czTNFAGd,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-10-16T14:15:03.947+0000) > > I agree after playing around with Irelia JG I can see this keystone is BUSTED. lol forget Irelia Qing your adc for 1300... how bout a freaking UNKILLABLE FULL TANK NASUS that's been AFK stacking top (or champions because this is busted) all game. what are you supposed to do against that? not let him afk stack top? thats how nasus always worked. you let him stack to 400 stacks at 20 minutes and he will 2 shot your adc. dark harvest changes nothing about that.
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLSd21v7RbA
> [{quoted}](name=Azsael,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=czTNFAGd,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-10-16T18:21:05.216+0000) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLSd21v7RbA no one is going to get away with this build in a serious game. dark harvest adds a lot of damage to the first nasus q against a champion, but most of the damage in that video comes from the items. no real game nasus will be able to build like that without getting kited and assassinated. too squishy.
: You're wrong. Some runes are just not made for every champion. Have you ever seen a melee champion with deathfire touch except Kassadin ? Do you think that thunderlord should deal more damage with melee champions because it's more difficult to trigger ? There are runes specific to a chunk of champions, and this one is one of them. Why would you want to get health and mana potions on Garen instead of grasp/dark harvest or something useful ?
> [{quoted}](name=CrazySayajin,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=ZAAewWuK,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-16T12:37:47.423+0000) > > You're wrong. Some runes are just not made for every champion. Have you ever seen a melee champion with deathfire touch except Kassadin ? Do you think that thunderlord should deal more damage with melee champions because it's more difficult to trigger ? > > There are runes specific to a chunk of champions, and this one is one of them. Why would you want to get health and mana potions on Garen instead of grasp/dark harvest or something useful ? runes adapt to the champions so more champions can take them. for example biscuit increases to 20% missing health for manaless from 15% and some mana for mana champions. even when garen can not use mana potions, they sell for 50 gold. if they even drop for him (i dont think mana potions dropped for garen at all). riot doesnt want specific champions to only pick specific runes, but let players chose runes that fit their playstile. especially inspiration is supposed to fit everyone. the problem is, that some runes are much more poweful on ranged than on melee. grasp only gives half effect and 2 health for ranged because they can trigger it more easy and would be muchg more powerful than melee with grasp if it gave the same. kleptomacy and dark harvest is the same and is easier to stack for ranged than melee and needs a range penalty too.
: Well I doubt kleptomancy on Garen is a smart idea
> [{quoted}](name=CrazySayajin,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=ZAAewWuK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-15T09:20:31.196+0000) > > Well I doubt kleptomancy on Garen is a smart idea it should work on garen as on every other melee champion. kleptomacy triggers on decisive strike. the runes are not only made for ranged champions and gangplank. but it is not just about garen. melee have less chances to trigger kleptomacy than ranged. runes should be equally strong for melee and ranged.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: So far I remember only {{champion:69}} & {{champion:27}} currently have the ground status. I thought {{champion:163}} had it as well but when I checked the description it was a knockback that reacts on dashes. That one from {{champion:78}} is a knocked down that reacts on dashes. The main differents is that ground als works on blinks while the one of Tal & Pop only works for dashes.
> [{quoted}](name=CoolKnightST,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=MxNfmrfg,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-10-14T14:25:40.566+0000) > > So far I remember only {{champion:69}} & {{champion:27}} currently have the ground status. > > I thought {{champion:163}} had it as well but when I checked the description it was a knockback that reacts on dashes. That one from {{champion:78}} is a knocked down that reacts on dashes. > > The main differents is that ground als works on blinks while the one of Tal & Pop only works for dashes. poppy w stops dashes. so is a movement impairing effect. it should made to work if it doesnt already.
: Question goes the cc state "Ground" work as an Movement Impaired effect yet? Else this should probally be added under this category as well.
> [{quoted}](name=CoolKnightST,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=MxNfmrfg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-14T13:19:44.449+0000) > > Question goes the cc state "Ground" work as an Movement Impaired effect yet? Else this should probally be added under this category as well. good point. youre thinking of poppy?
: [Runes Feedback] ARAM Gathering Storm
some runes are less useful on aram than others. some are more powerful. some are entirely blocked from being taken, like the movement speed buff in the river rune, or zombie ward. you get a message that they automatically switched out, when you pick them. you do not pick gathering storm and take something else on that map. dark harvest is incredibly op on aram for example. especially on ranged champions, since a lot of enemy champions and allies are dieing, you stack it up very fast and start 1 shotting squishy people.
: yes man but like i said COMPARED to others , is the weakest rune
> [{quoted}](name=SMEZZY LIXO,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=mRaqyAtf,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-10-13T17:27:11.238+0000) > > yes man but like i said COMPARED to others , is the weakest rune the weakest rune is grasp. because in any real game you cant stack it. the most i had it was 200 health at 30 minutes, and my enemy kept fighting me all the time for me to stack it. most of the time its the same grasp as the mastery, while every other rune is a buffed version of their masteries.
: New press the attack is so weak
its pretty massive. dont buff it further pls. on any carry with auto attacks, press the attack does so much damage.
: Ezreal wasn't tunes specifically for runes. His Q counts as an autoattack. It applies on-hit effects. Its no different to gangplank's Q or Yasuo's Q.
> [{quoted}](name=TheGoomyGamer,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=MxNfmrfg,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-10-13T20:49:14.882+0000) > > Ezreal wasn't tunes specifically for runes. His Q counts as an autoattack. It applies on-hit effects. Its no different to gangplank's Q or Yasuo's Q. its different. they said in the lifestream for the runes 2 weeks ago, that ezreals q was changed to be a spell and auto attack at the same time, so he could trigger more runes.
: Again..cause ez has on hit effects to his q. Garen has crit on his E.. if there was a rune based off crit he would benefit. Its all part of a champions kit. You're asking for not only mote out of the champion but out of the runes and comparing it to ez who had his Q treates as a spell and an aa for seasons now.
> [{quoted}](name=GalioXOXO,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=MxNfmrfg,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-13T20:34:24.027+0000) > > Again..cause ez has on hit effects to his q. > > Garen has crit on his E.. if there was a rune based off crit he would benefit. > > Its all part of a champions kit. > You're asking for not only mote out of the champion but out of the runes and comparing it to ez who had his Q treates as a spell and an aa for seasons now. ez q was changed to count as spell + auto attack. thats not normal. other spells like that are either spells or auto attacks. they did it just so ezreal can take runes he couldnt take. so again my argument. if they can do it for ezreal, they can do it for garen. other fighters can trigger these runes too.
: Other champs with silence would havr even more ways to use them. And if you are talking abour ezreals Q skillshot that procs on hit effects so its supposed to count as an AA.
> [{quoted}](name=GalioXOXO,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=MxNfmrfg,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-13T19:56:26.306+0000) > > Other champs with silence would havr even more ways to use them. > And if you are talking abour ezreals Q skillshot that procs on hit effects so its supposed to count as an AA. they also made it so it counts as an auto attack and a spell, just so he has more ways to trigger items like ludens and some of the new runes. if they cater to ezreal so he can use more runes he would like to take and couldnt take normal, why not do it for garen too? it doesnt matter that the other champions have one more way to trigger it. they already can trigger it easy. {{champion:53}} hook and knockup both trigger it. {{champion:31}} knockup. {{champion:9}} fear. {{champion:90}} ult. {{champion:16}} snare. but fiddlesticks, malzahar and soraka have no reason to take aftershock. they can buy rylais for approach velocity. adding silence to the runes would only affect garen and no other champions.
: ....wut? This os just a strecth to min max garen. Find alternative rune pathing rather than just making uo dashes and movemetnt impairment... cause then every champ woukd have an impaitment and thats lame.
> [{quoted}](name=GalioXOXO,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=MxNfmrfg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-13T19:46:16.078+0000) > > ....wut? This os just a strecth to min max garen. Find alternative rune pathing rather than just making uo dashes and movemetnt impairment... cause then every champ woukd have an impaitment and thats lame. almost every champion has movement impairment... riot changed ezreals skillshot so it counts as auto attack for him to stack press the attack but also as a spell. when they can do that for ezreal, they can do it for garen to allow him to use approach velocity and aftershock. they would be good runes on him. adding silence to the runes would only affect garens ability to take them. the other champions with silences already can use them.
: [Bug] Garens spin does not trigger cheap shot true damage.
tested on a champion bot and the result was the same.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I got the Rp and BE in 20 min after i got my PBe account. probably wait or doing tutorial are the best choices
> [{quoted}](name=Beer Me Now,realm=PBE,application-id=A4D2003433C8FCD715185A7264A9CC6FDFAD7FEF,discussion-id=3egG7UjK,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2017-10-13T11:32:37.607+0000) > > I got the Rp and BE in 20 min after i got my PBe account. probably wait or doing tutorial are the best choices a bit more than half an hour for me and didnt get the stuff. i dont want to relog, because im afraid i get put into 2h que again.
: BRAUM BUG IN CHAMPION SELECTION
i like braum like the next guy, but its a bit silly^^ when hes banned or picked by the enemy team, you can not get into a game, and it kicks you back into que.

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