: Fighter Items on PBE for 8.12
Hey, uh, I have a concern. You have items for fighters who like building AD, and you have Atma’s for the ones who build lots of health and scale with bonus AD... What about Nasus? Not only is he weak right now (what with having gotten shat on by an extended series of Rune changes), literally the only items he scales at all with (Triforce+Steraks) are getting their interactions nerfed while everybody around him is getting cool new items to be OP with. When the heck does Nasus get some itemization love? Hell, when does Nasus get any love at all?!
Rioter Comments
: Can Rakan be able to execute minions with Relic Shield?
: I can definitely buy that Randuin's is on the weak side relative to some of its counterparts (I literally almost commented "This item is probably undertuned" in the post when writing it), but using the term "gutted" seems over the top. Regardless, Randuin's seems worth looking into.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=8g2H4vjy,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-04-07T02:54:12.319+0000) > > I can definitely buy that Randuin's is on the weak side relative to some of its counterparts (I literally almost commented "This item is probably undertuned" in the post when writing it), but using the term "gutted" seems over the top. It really isn't. Remember how little it took to gut Olaf? 300 gold isn't anywhere near worth the 75 HP, slow duration, and anti-crit passive.
: Multiple instances of the effect _can_ run concurrently.
Uh, you with Riot/speculating/testing yourself?
: Midseason Durability Feedback
So you're...uh, flat out gutting Randuin's. Sure. It's a terrible fucking decision. Don't quite think Adaptive Helm will do what you want it to. Might be more effective if you tuned it to champions, but unless you let multiple instances of the effect run concurrently it'll just be kinda bad.
: Updated to use a similar blue for the colorblind mode per feedback. How does this feel now?
Hm, I'd honestly call it more pinkish, but it's an improvement. I still feel the non-colorblind mode color is more distinctive, but eh.
: Magic Shield Feedback Thread
Red-green deficiency speaking here. Frankly, I'm finding the non-colorblind mode dark blue/purple to be far more noticeable. The colorblind mode one is certainly more bluish, but it's still incredibly pale.
: I really agree here. It's a straight up kayle nerf as well, just when we were starting to see her get played again.
Aaaaaand then nobody cared, because Sated Kayle has been stupid OP for the last few patches.
: Darius 1v1 Q nerf needed
Frankly, I'd rather they just nerfed the mana and CD return on his W.
: We will be looking at how this change will affect Kayle and evaluate what to do. Our intent with this change is not to nerf Kayle.
Why not? She's ridiculously OP.
: Her Q doing 8% current isn't really the reason for her being so strong though, which is why I'm utterly confused as to why they decided to simply nerf it after tossing aside the entire ability rework.
It's a nerf, pure and simple. They're not hitting what makes her strong, they just think she's too strong. So they're nerfing her.
: Elise Q Nerf Context?
The context is "Fuck Elise".
: Is this really a good reason tho? :/ I mean, he sacrifices tankiness and durability for more damage. And even though, Youmuu and Infinity Edge (the 2 viable crits items on Garen) only give him 35% critical chance, so it'll be very RNG based. I don't get why we should nerf Off-tank Garen for optional Crit Garen...
Look, it's damage either way, and people were bitching about his crit builds being made non-synergistic.
: @RiotRepertoir Why did Judgement's AD ratio get reduced in the 8/7 PBE update?
: 1. It should be multiplicative, not additive - so 19% reduction rather than 20%. 2. The state of the game where Righteous Glory was a powerful rush item with no supporting items was deemed unsupportable. The active needs to be powerful to fulfill the function of the item - however, that doesn't mean that the item needs to be dominant as a rush item in lane. > Thornmail I can contest the state of ADC damage back and forth but ultimately, the current live version of Thornmail puts a limit on how many powerful Health Items we can have in the game. Thornmail makes a world in which you can buy powerful health items incredibly problematic as it ensures that a Health build cannot be defeated by sustained physical damage in more than one way. Since Thornmail's best multiplier is a large Health Pool - what Thornmail does when it scales solely off Health is to generally make it such that introducing decent Health items become problematic as well as generally ensure that there's only one 'real' armor choice for a character.
> [{quoted}](name=Xypherous,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=yMtrbjGs,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2015-08-07T20:41:34.147+0000) > > 2. The state of the game where Righteous Glory was a powerful rush item with no supporting items was deemed unsupportable. The active needs to be powerful to fulfill the function of the item - however, that doesn't mean that the item needs to be dominant as a rush item in lane. What state was this? Literally the _only_ champion I can think of that rushed RG is Maokai, and it's not exactly like he's been controlling the game in any level of play since 5.13.
: That seems really powerful on champions that already have an AA reset, like Wukong, Darius, Shyvana, Nasus etc. I just played a (custom bot) game with Darius, and getting off 3 autos for the passive felt really strong. I could see champions like Shyvana or Darius, who have on-hit effects naturally, having a lot more power than expected as a result.
> [{quoted}](name=Squidoodoo,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=rFbd7hyy,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-08-07T04:09:59.944+0000) > > Nasus etc. No Nasus in their right mind would build it.
: The issue is more with the amount of health that the item has to then give (additional issue that a Tiamat item with 2 other components makes a hideous mess of the shop). That said, I think I was overrating that problem - I just made it build out of a Giant's Belt with a total of 400 health on the finished item, but trimmed the damage on hit to the primary target. Should be on PBE with the next deploy tomorrow, I'll update the main post then. Hopefully, the result is that you should still care about on-hit if you want to buy this item, but you don't have to care about it as much to get value (and it isn't as crazy for optimal users).
Ironically, 2 Ruby Crystals is precisely 300 health, but since it's a moot point I guess I'll just shrug and let the matter go.
: Don't you think that making MR stronger and taking away from armor is a little much, considering that armor penetration/reduction is so much more available? There's currently no %MR reduction item in the game, as opposed to black cleaver being incredibly accessible in a balanced team comp. There is more flat penetration/reduction towards MR, but that's not nearly as much of a worry 'end game' for people building actual defensive stats compared to those picking up a single resistance item.
That might be a concern if MR items were actually being meaningfully buffed.
: This is something I'm considering - the build path is _really_ bad on that item right now. The downside is that I'd have to up the health to 400, which makes builds with Titanic Hydra in them more complete and have fewer weaknesses. It might be worth changing anyway, but the implications are kinda scary. The real solution, ultimately, will be updating some component itemization so that more items can have components that make more sense, but that's way out of scope for right now; more likely (but still no promises) to happen at Preseason.
Or you could just include another Ruby Crystal in the recipe and change the combine cost. Yeah sure, it's another three-item combine item, but it's strictly better than the huuuuuuge combine cost.
: I actually did try buffing Doran's Shield in this pass. The results I got was mostly certain characters were shut out rather than defensive items being stronger - due to the fact that Doran's Shield's main identity is basic attack reduction. There's probably a change that can buff it without unduly hurting the item - but at this point, the identity of the item is most likely flawed (or perhaps, made flawed by the fact that we want other patterns to exist.)
Perhaps you could do something with it that has more to do with the spell damage reduction, since there aren't actually that many purely single-target spells in the game? Or maybe even just move the damage reduction to after defensive stats kick in? So it not only scales throughout the game, but it actually feels like a good purchase on naturally tanky characters?
: In general, the more defense that exists in the item system - the more pure supportive and defensive tanks will be weaker in general. It's a bit paradoxical but let's think about who benefits from defensive items being strong and accessible via gold? People with natural access to gold (usually damage and wave clear) and enough base damage to be functional. This is generally the opposite of defensive tanks - who generally have lower income and strong measures of built in defense. In a world without gold or items - support characters would be king because there's no item or gold scaling - and thus their innate kit powers are tremendously effective. In a world where you can buy powerful defensive options - characters with gold income and a mix of offensive powers benefit due to the fact that they can now build to overcome their weakness and still be functional. However, I admit that I could be misunderstanding what you mean by defensive tanks. If you consider Sejuani or Gragas a defensive tank - then this argument breaks down - mostly because there's a bunch of high damage diver types that are perceived as tanks simply because they are **durable**.
On the other hand, if defensive items are being made both more expensive and less efficient, what does that do to the champions whose arduous farming only allows them so many items? For example, what the hell do you think these changes are going to do to Rammus, a champion who's already noted as not being especially strong? ...Actually, let's get deeper down into this. Setting aside Supports, as you clearly already have, because their kits need to be able to function without gold from farming. You've already suggested that Gragas isn't a tank, despite the massive amount of durability and CC that has been baked into his kit since his rework. You've already suggested that Sejuani, a character defined by her scaling with defensive stats and initiation potential, is not a tank. What champions do _you_ define as tanks?
: While I do like odd use cases for items - we'd like to shift towards a world where Aegis is more optional overall. If there are holes in support itemization - attaching them to other less powerful effects to boost the number of things they can do would likely be a better direction.
If you want a world where Aegis is more optional, you're going to have to nerf magic damage champs so that going double AP isn't always the optimal choice.
: Core Defense Items Pass [5.16]
So..._why_ exactly are you overall nerfing defensive itemization and especially armor items? (And don't give me that shit about armor being too strong) Steraks and Titanic? The two explicitly _offensive items?_ You're shitting all over Righteous Glory (an item which you nerfed back into unviability last patch) why? You're shitting all over the effectiveness of Aegis and Locket why? You're not even meaningfully buffing Warmogs in a meta where it doesn't get built for what reason? In the end, this looks like nothing but another big fat "FUCK YOU" to tanks.


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