Rioter Comments
: Kog'Maw PBE Feedback Thread
Question: Have you considered a new passive? Or maybe giving his passive to a champion that makes more thematic sense, such as Ziggs? Edit: I can see Kog'Maw's passive being more like how hungry he is? So what does he do as he gets more hungry? Perhaps maybe the more auto-attacks and Abilities he does, it slowly increases his damage output until he is out of combat?
: Graves Gameplay Update Feedback
Why is his Passive called Destiny? I don't play Graves but I think his new passive needs a better name.
Rioter Comments
: does anyone else think they could add a scaling on attack speed for his E? like he spins faster the more AS he has, so it'd be able to lower his damage potentially. or maybe (attack speed * level + base) = spins
Hilariously, it does make sense. I would prefer it not to be implemented in the game but it makes logical sense.
: Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Y7ELMJAK,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-08-04T19:35:29.303+0000) > Changelist: > > * General: > * Rec Items updated > * Attack Frame improved, but doesn't scale as well with Attack Speed (time between attacks unchanged) > * Base Stats: > * (Nerf) Health/lvl 96 >>> 84.25 > * (Buff) AD/lvl 3.5 >>> 4.5 > * (Buff) Armor/lvl 2.7 >>> 3.0 > * (Buff) Attack Range 125 >>> 175 > * Passive - Perseverance - unchanged: > * Q - Decisive Strike: > * (Nerf) Silence Duration 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 >>> 1.5 all ranks > * Movement Speed Duration 1.5/2.25/3/3.75/4.5 >>> 1.5/2/2.5/3/3.5 > * W - Courage: > * (Removed) 20% increased bonus Armor and Magic Resist > * (Added) Killing units permanently grants 0.25 Armor and Magic Resist, up to a maximum of 30 total Armor and Magic Resist > * (Removed) Active Tenacity component > * E - Judgment: > * Base Damage per tick 10.0/22.5/35.0/47.5/60 >>> 14/18/22/26/30 > * Total Attack Damage Ratio per tick 0.35/0.40/0.45/0.50/0.55 >>> 0.34/0.35/0.36/0.37/0.38 > * Base ticks per cast 6 >>> 5 > * (Buff) Cooldown 13/12/11/10/9 >>> 9 at all ranks > * (Added) Judgment’s spin speed permanently increases at levels 1/4/7/10/13/16, resulting in a total of 5/6/7/8/9/10 maximum ticks of damage per cast > * (Removed) Garen no longer moves 20% slower while moving through minions > * (Added) Judgment deals 33% increased damage when striking a single enemy > * (Removed) Judgment no longer deals 75% damage to minions > * R - Demacian Justice: > * (Added) Passive: The enemy champion with the most recent kills is the Villain. Judgment ticks and basic attacks on the Villain deal an additional 1% of its max Health as true damage > * (Added) Demacian Justice now deals true damage to the Villain instead of magic damage Personal Opinions: * General: * The recommended Items may need a bit more updating (It's missing Sunfire Cape but I think Dreadnought's is doing a better job...) * Base Stats: * Most of the changes I like. Not completely agreeing with the HP-per-level nerf even if the reason for it is because you have more Fighter Items. I love the increased auto-attack range. * Passive: * Unchanged. I'm shocked it's not getting nerfed so meh. * Q - Decisive Strike: * The Movement Speed Buff duration nerf I can understand. The change does lean Garen over more to stick near his allies than chasing enemies to the end of days. * The Silence duration nerf I am not completely against it, but he does need a higher Silence duration late game for some of those champions that "blink" too hard such as Katarina and Leblanc or dash too hard such as Lee Sin. Give him some of his duration back late game. * W - Courage: * The new Courage Passive I am not completely against it because it does promote Garen players to build health early because he is getting his durability by farming. But the down-side to this change is that enemy rangers that counter Garen are now more prominent to poke Garen more often so that he cannot farm for the durability rather than just to keep his passive in check. I also get the feeling this passive was also designed to get Garen players out of jungle and into the lane. This Passive may need more tweaking. * The Garen Active losing it's Tenacity I am completely against this change. The point of this ability is to retaliate back into the fight so that Garen does his job better. Like I have said before, When you see a massive AOE CC ability heading your way, you activate Courage. Because of this, you break out of the CC sooner so that you can return to the fight to protect your allies. Return Tenacity to his Active, it fits his theme entirely. * E - Judgement: * The changes gave Garen's late game the power he needed. I approve most of them. * R - Demacian Justice: * The new Villain Mechanic is very fun. But like I have said many times, this mechanic makes Garen feel more like an Avenger and it does not entirely fit his theme. In addition to this, the mechanic is not completely reliable (and it's a bit buggy right now, I have not found the cause yet). The situation of the game constantly changes, but you insist that the game should choose who the Villain is for me? As a Garen Player, I hate this. I would prefer to pick out the Villain myself, because I should have the freedom to decide who the villain is, and the leadership skills to make a wise decision on who to use justice on, **NOT THE GAME**. I hate the fact that the game picks the Villain for me. This mechanic needs more work to fit Garen's Theme better, so please look into it some more. I do love the Justice Execution Indicator above the Villain's head and the Ability Icon. I dislike how you made Garen even more predictable with this floating icon above the enemy's head. * Finally, my ultimate has the capability to deal true damage. Very nice, but isn't his ultimate already very powerful as it is? Did it really need to be buffed? I hate how you buffed his most powerful ability by nerfing the rest of his kit that makes Garen who he is in the first place. * Overall: * RiotRepeertoir made some decent changes, some of them not so much. His focus in the Garen rework were mainly giving Garen late game power and implementing a Villain Mechanic that not only is not completely reliabe, it made his gameplay feel less of what Garen is supposed to be. He nerfed the rest of his kit that actually did make Garen who he is for the sake of the Villain mechanic that does not completely fit his theme. Please look into his rework some more so that we can keep improving Garen to be the Champion he is supposed to be. Otherwise, good job with the rework so far via abilities. Thematically, not so much.
: Hey guys, Here to give you guys an update on a last minute change we're making to Garen before the patch release. We currently feel that Garen has retained too much of his mobility on top of the new strengths that we've given to the Juggernauts which is making him a bit too powerful along too many dimensions. Specifically, we feel his mobility uptime gets far too hard to deal with in the mid - late game especially once he gets ahead. Thus we are putting in a nerf to his Q Movement Speed duration. It's important to note that the Q Movement Speed duration has been inaccurate on PBE (it was 1.5 - 4.5 seconds instead of the tooltip-stated 2 - 4), so there is no actual change to his rank 1 MS besides the tooltip correction. We are making the following change: **Decisive Strike** * Movement Speed duration reduced to 1.5/2/2.5/3/3.5 seconds from 1.5/2.25/3/3.75/4.5 seconds I know it's not the happiest of news to the Garen mains out there, but we feel this is necessary to keep him in check.
Not a complete fan of this change but I see the intent. The change may promote Garen to actually stick closer to his comrades more often like the Vanguard he is supposed to be rather than chase his enemies half-way across the Rift solo. Half and half, I'm ok with this change.
: [Discussion] Is this new Juggernaut rework suitable for Garen, Darius and Mordekaiser ?
Darius's lack of mobility was intended. He was one of the best lane bullies against most melee champions, and he was definitely scary back then early game. Now it's his late game that is just as scary while his early game has lost some of that fear. I cannot completely confirm if the changes are for the better, but he is definitely still an executioner. I disagree with your mobility changes. His bleed **should not** be based off his AP at all. And I am still contending with Riot's Bloodrage so I cannot give a full opinion on this yet. Mordekaiser controlling a dragon now is cool but I'm very confused on why Riot implemented this in the first place. I am even more confused why they changed Mordekaiser to be capable of duo lanes as well. I cannot give a thorough opinion on the Mordekaiser changes due to lack of experience with this champion. Personally, I can definitely see a Master of Metal being able to pull off a form of CC, particularly a stun or a slow. Garen's loss on his Silence duration is not too bad, but a longer duration is most likely needed come late game. The reduced Movement Speed duration I think hurts as well but this is intended to have Garen stick more closely to his teammates like the Vanguard he is than chasing his enemies down. His W being forced to farm so that you get armor and magic resist is a tactic I believe Riot implemented so that the Player decides to build health first instead. However the down-side to this is that enemy champions that already counter Garen are even harder to handle because you have to farm to increase your durability and ranged champions are now more inclined to keep you from farming as well as keeping your passive down. His W Active losing it's Tenacity is not a good change for a Vanguard Champion in my opinion. When you activate Courage because you saw an incoming Sejuani ultimate, you break out of the CC sooner so that you can protect your comrades by fighting. This change needs to be reverted soon. I like the E changes, it does give Garen some of his much needed power late game. His Villain mechanic, a very fun mechanic, does not fit his theme. It is reliable and unreliable, reliable in damage and that you do have a good chance of having the Villain be the actual target you want it to be. The down-side is that the Villain may not be the target you want it to be. I do like how Riot is trying to implement true damage on Garen's ultimate though. I think the Villain mechanic needs more work in order to be more effective and fit Garen's theme much more better. Overall, I disagree with your ideas entirely.
: But I LIKE the GP announcer :c
I like the GP announcer too, just not on Summoner's Rift.
: Hold on, I'd rather the villain mechanic moved over to Poppy since it would be cool new ultimate but still shares in the properties. Just add some buffs to it.
Possibly. She does solely wish to crush Noxus in honor of her Father.
: Core Defense Items Pass [5.16]
Why is the {{item:3143}} getting the -10% critical strike damage reduced? Wouldn't it fit better on {{item:3075}} ? Or maybe if they both got it? I dunno.
: I said the same thing, that he felt more of a avenger then a Vanguard, and got no response. It felt weird having EVERYONE know who I was planning to kill, which in turn caused players to just play more safely or keep a tab on me. An normally speaking, if I REALLY needed someone dead, I would hide and flash over a wall, Q-E-W-R and try to get out before I died. Since Garen STILL lacks a jump or flash mechanic. An fighting against champions already made it hard for Garen to fight other to begin with. I felt that if they really needed a gimmick added to Garen ult is. 1.) (Soldier Of Demacia) > GIves more CC in his kit Passive: IF Garen strikes a foe with Decisive Strike, it marks them, When Garen spins on the foe applying AT LEAST 5 Ticks, they are rooted in the location for 1.5 seconds. If his ult DOESN'T kill it stuns for 1.5/2/2.5 Seconds, (So that he can be useful late game, and make a decision to either A.) Kill the target, or B.) Cripple the target.) Giving him now two sources of CC and the nerf on Q makes a bit more sense. 2.) (Protector) >Give more Tank to his kit Passive: Garen gains a bonus 2%/ 4% / 6% Armor and Magic Resistance for each ally around Garen. If he kills someone with his ult, he gains MORE Armor and Magic Resistance for each kill with Justice. Breaking the cap by +1/+1.5/+2 for each kill. Allowing him to scale even nicer into late game, and award him for actually killing foes, but it's only a cap increase so he still needs to farm abit to gain these bonuses. (*THEREFORE showing new players that you should farm a bit more after completing objectives.) 3.) (Lead the Charge) >Give more Engage power into his kit. PASSIVE: Garen gains Tenacity of *His old numbers but halved If Garen ults a foe, he increase the moral of his allies. Granting them Tenacity by 10%/15%/20% an a small burst of speed and gains both increase in resistances equal to 1/3 of the slain foes ARMOR and MAGIC RESISTANCE.
1) He doesn't need more CC, he already has a crap ton of damage. Garen needs a reasonable duration on his Silence and 1.5 seconds late game may not be strong enough. As a Garen main, I don't always use my Q on the main carry, I can sometimes Q an Enemy Champion that jumped us for their initiation, which by then I would delay their combo by 2.5 seconds while I jump one of their main carries without my Q. 2) I like the ideas but Garen is already tanky enough as it is. 3) I can see a morale boost on his side. He is a leader after all. I won't agree completely to your numbers but it's a cool concept.
: I would like to report a Garen bug: While Garen's Q is active, Garen struggles to walk up to the Enemy Nexus and hit it. I have also noticed the recent PBE Garen changes have also applies this problem to Enemy Inhibitors as well.
2 more things: 1: Garen's pathing needs a bit more work, especially farming. Sometimes, my character struggles to run around my minions just to hit that one enemy minion. His collision box may still be a bit too big. 2: Sometime when I cast judgement and I try to click a monster such as Dragon or Grog, My character will stop just far enough where the very edge of Judgement still wont even hit the monster. Must still be a related pathing problem for Garen as well.
Rioter Comments
: [Elise] - Q extreme damage and duration bug
Until Riot fixes this bug, Please note that {{item:3140}} will remove the poison. Be sure that you get AD Champions all hooked up on this item period until Riot disables Elise and fixes the bug.
: Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread
I would like to report a Garen bug: While Garen's Q is active, Garen struggles to walk up to the Enemy Nexus and hit it. I have also noticed the recent PBE Garen changes have also applies this problem to Enemy Inhibitors as well.
: Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread
The 8/6/2015 changes for PBE Garen look much better.
: His W is pretty darn boring, but individual abilities can be somewhat bland if there is added complexity to the kit elsewhere. In Garen's case, we wanted to keep him available as a beginner player option, and we took some complexity out of W active, put we put some back in the R passive, E activation, and W passive farming.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Y7ELMJAK,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2015-08-04T22:43:39.029+0000) > > His W is pretty darn boring, but individual abilities can be somewhat bland if there is added complexity to the kit elsewhere. In Garen's case, we wanted to keep him available as a beginner player option, and we took some complexity out of W active, put we put some back in the R passive, E activation, and W passive farming. If Garen's W is pretty darn boring, why the **flip** are you the one reworking him? This ability is incredibly fun and useful, and its timing has the potential of turning the tides of battle. If anything, **your changes have actually made his W more bland because you made it more unreliable**.
: My thoughts on the PBE changes for {{champion:86}} : **General Information on personal thoughts**: I am a Garen main, Gold III on my Live profile and I am attempting to be a Platinum Garen main, possibly Diamond. I have only played a couple of AI matches with the PBE Garen until I can try using a better internet connection to test these changes on PVP, but I have read other posts and checked on some questions that needed to be answered. **Recommended Items**: You forgot Sunfire Cape, (I don't have a list yet, but it's small). **General Stats**: You gave Garen more damage and less durability. I am still questioning this change and I need to play more matches to give this more thought. Otherwise, I kinda like the new auto-attack range. **Passive - Perseverance**: The regeneration nerf is reasonable due to Garen being able to "Mundo ult" his hp back. But the HP nerf does drop his passive's potential quite a bit. **Overall**, I believe this nerf is somewhat reasonable. **Q - Decisive Strike**: I am assuming you are trying to give enemy champions more "counterplay" while they fight against Garen, which gives them a reasonable chance for them to retaliate. **HOWEVER**, I consider the current Live Garen to be using his Q as "counterplay" against **certain champions that freaking counter Garen in the first place!** This nerf feels more harsher than what you claim (especially against Champions that hard counter Garen, the Ranged Champions). **Overall**, I dislike this change in general. The only good out of this is the increased auto-attack range. **Q - Decisive Strike - Compensation ideas**: You can compensate this silence nerf with a movement speed buff duration to be longer duration early game? Or you can make his silence duration affected by the longer Garen runs with his Q's buff active, so that the longer his Q is active, the longer the silence (hence, counters the "Brush of Death" or the "Flash of Justice" tactic by approximately one second?). **W - Courage**: The nerf on the Courage Passive is hard on Garen, **especially mid game**. Courage will almost always be the last ability to max out, and you are stuck with an extra measly 10 Armor and Magic Resist points for most of the game until late game where you can max up to 30 points each, which takes a total of 150 CS or 30 Champion/Giant/Epic Monster **Kills** (Not assists, you have to kill them. Good luck stealing Dragon from your jungler for a measly 1 point, not so much for the KS on enemy champions). As for obtaining these points, it seems pretty easy via CS until you end up fighting a ranged champion that makes it hard for Garen to farm properly early game, especially under his own turret. **Overall**, I dislike the Courage Passive change because it makes it harder for Garen to farm early game against champions that counter him (However, it is reasonable amount early game until your first back), very weak most of his mid game, and potentially the same as Live Garen's Passive late game (Meaning that Garen's Live Courage Passive is better somewhat early game after your first back, definitely better mid game, and potentially similar late game). As for the Courage Active having no more tenacity on one of the most easily kited champions, which is usually activated so that when you see hard CC flying your way you can break out of the hard CC sooner to protect your allies from at least one of the enemy champions, is a hard nerf. **Overall**, I dislike this change because the Live Garen's Active Courage feels more like a Vanguard AND a protector while the PBE Garen feels more like just a Vanguard. **W - Courage - Compensation Ideas**: I really have no true idea what you are trying to accomplish with the Courage changes other than the nerfs are compensation to the rest of his kit. The overall nerf makes me feel less like a Vanguard AND a Protector. The health-per-level nerf along with the 20% bonus armor and magic resist removed makes me feel less durable, **especially early and mid game**. This needs to be looked into more. **E - Judgement**: Holy crap there are a lot of changes. But long story short, you nerfed his early game damage for his late game damage. I personally like some of the changes here (such as spinning faster late game), but the one thing I have not only noticed but hate so much is the 20% slow for "touching" enemy champions you are chasing with this ability. It has increased the difficulty to trade with enemy champions early game, **and the increased auto-attack range has actually worsened the trade even more** (by ~50 units of range). What you have done here is you made it harder for Garen to trade during the laning phase early game, which is where he is supposed to be doing to begin with. This nerf needs to be reduced, reverted, or changed. As for the damage output, it is somewhat noticeable increase during late game compared to Live Garen, and a somewhat noticeable decrease early game compared to Live Garen. As for the loss of the Critical Strike Chance on his E, some primary damage items have lost effectiveness on Garen: the {{item:3031}} and {{item:3142}}. Overall, I am still pondering on some of the early game lost damage for late game extra damage as well as the cooldown reduction, I like the cooldown compensation for cancelling Judgement early, and I hate the 20% slow that hinders Garen in all regions of the game. **E - Judgement - Compensation Ideas**: The 20% slow must be changed as soon as possible because it is a noticeable hindrance on the fun of playing Garen. As for most of the changes, I am still considering what should be done and whether I truly like it or not and whether the changes are truly reasonable or not. **R - Demacian Justice**: So Garen officially has 3 passives... Interesting. So let's talk about the Villain mechanic. The new mechanic has officially made Garen an avenger (I thought Kalista was supposed to be?). After an ally dies to an enemy champion (this can include Garen dying by his enemy lane champion), Garen chooses to seek revenge and will deal bonus true damage to one particular target, the enemy with the most recent kill. This can potentially mean that the game can create a "noob trap" for new players to act as an Avenger and choose to ult the "Villain" rather than choosing the "Right" target to use the ultimate on, which there is an approximately higher than 20% chance that villain IS the Right Target to ult. Overall, I am glad to see some true damage finally come into play for Garen, especially on his ultimate. But on a mechanic that is not completely reliable on choosing the right target you would prefer to deliver justice to is disheartening. This new mechanic is indeed very fun and have no true objection to such a wonderful idea being implemented into the gme. I hate how you truly have no true control who deserves justice, but yet you do. **You have to hope the "Villain" is the "Right" Target to ult during the heat of battle**. **R - Demacian Justice - Compensation Ideas**: I hope you find a better way to implement true damage on his ultimate because this Villain mechanic needs much more "rework"/"reverted off Garen". But for dead certain, remove the 1% HP true damage for each strike and return some of that power back to the rest of his kit. **Overall PBE Changes**: I play Garen for a number of reasons: He has a great personality as a Vanguard and his reasons to be a General are mostly just, he is a durable champion, he has the potential to become a powerful carry, his **Perseverance (Passive)** maintains his position on the Fields of Justice as a Vanguard, his **Decisive Strike (Q)** allows you to decide when to lead the charge into battle and to decide who to strike with his charge, his **Courage (W)** increases your durability and if used at the right moments in battle it can potentially turn the tides of battle, his **Judgement (E)** can potentially shear multiple targets with a large amount of damage, his my most favorite reason of all, his Demacian Justice (R) where you can use the power of the heavens above and deliver that power into a potential fatal blow of justice against the enemy that **you** decide is worthy to be deleted from the battle (in the name of justice). So far, His Passive is still the same. His Q is not as reliable, even less so against enemy champions that hard counter or kite him. His W has lost its power to ensure Garen's early and mid game durability. His E is bad early game due to the "self-kiting" slow implemented on it but has gained some late game power via damage. His ultimate's villain mechanic is not completely reliable, you have more than a 20% chance that the Villain the game randomly chose due to circumstances you cannot completely control is going to be the "Right" Target for you to use your ultimate on during the heat of battle. As for the attempt to implement true damage on his ultimate, it's lovely. Overall, I prefer the Original Live Garen. The passive nerf is reasonable. I prefer the Original Garen Q because it helps you counter enemy champions that counter you. I prefer the original Garen W Passive because that 20% bonus Armor and Magic Resist Passive is much more reliable during your first early game back and during mid game than the crappy 10 points you get after slaying 50 minions or slaying 10 dragons on accident. I prefer the Original Garen W Active because the tenacity is the counterplay against champions that counter you with Hard CC and/or kiting. I am leaning towards **some** of the changes with PBE Garen E because Garen does need a bit of power late game. I prefer the Original Garen R because its less "forced" decisions on who to target for the ultimate and gives the player more "freedom" to decide who should really deserve justice. **Overall, I prefer the Original Garen**. I have only played 2 Co-op vs AI games and need to play PVP on the PBE to give a better evaluation, but this is what I have mostly speculated so far. I intend to re-edit what I have learned in-game in PVP or write another post once I receive better internet reliability. I will edit any mistakes after I get a full night's rest. _Last edited 8/6/2015_
**TL DR**; **Recommended Items**: Needs more updating. **General Stats**: I am still questioning the potential of these changes. **Passive - Perseverance**: Reasonable nerf. **Q - Decisive Strike**: The only good coming out of this ability is Garen's increased auto-attack range allows him to reach his enemies from further away. The nerf will be harder on Garen players because Enemy Champions that counter Garen will counter him even harder. **W - Courage**: This is a hard nerf. The Passive will make it even harder to achieve if an Enemy counters Garen. It has also lost its durability Garen needs for early and mid game. The Active without tenacity makes it harder for Garen to achieve successful counterplay AND makes it harder for Garen to actually **break out of Hard CC sooner so that he can protect his allies that may have been caught out in the first place**. **E - Judgement**: The fact that it's harder to trade early game because of the **self-kiting slow mechanic**, which is where you need to be trading in the first place so that you can gain the power you need for later, is harsh. It becomes even harsher because of Garen's increased auto-attack range which means Garen actually gets fewer ticks on his opponents. It becomes **even harsher** if it is an enemy that counter's Garen or champions that have more mobility can escape even sooner just to perform their counterattack or escape. **R - Demacian Justice**: The Villain mechanic is a very fun mechanic indeed, but this mechanic actually makes Garen become an avenger. The point of Demacian Justice is that you decide who must be deleted from the game. **Instead, this somewhat unreliable noob trap mechanic decides who should be the villain for you**, and this villain could circumstantially be **anybody**. And let's just add on that this mechanic makes Garen **even more predictable**. The Passive is not needed at all. The only cool thing I finally get to see implemented out of all of this crap is that his ultimate finally has a potential of dealing true damage. But the real question: **Why on earth... are you buffing one of Garen's most powerful abilities and nerfing the rest of his kit? Why are you making his kit revolve around a mechanic that is not completely reliable?** **Overall**: Original Live Garen is better. He is less predictable than PBE Garen, he has more counterplay against champions that counter him, he has more durability and survivability early and mid game, can potentially act much more like a protector, and you feel like you have more freedom on deciding who to use your ultimate on. PBE Garen is more predictable due to his third passive, is countered more easily, has less durability early and mid game, feels much more like an avenger (a "potential" avenger...), and new players are more likely to fall for the somewhat unreliable villain mechanic noob trap more easily than pro players. **TL DR**: As a Garen main, the PBE changes makes Garen feel less Garen. Live Garen feels more like a Vanguard and a Protector, he has more freedom (He fights for those who cannot). PBE Garen feels more like a Vanguard and an Avenger, and he has less freedom (He fights for those that just died... and seeks revenge).
: Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread
My thoughts on the PBE changes for {{champion:86}} : **General Information on personal thoughts**: I am a Garen main, Gold III on my Live profile and I am attempting to be a Platinum Garen main, possibly Diamond. I have only played a couple of AI matches with the PBE Garen until I can try using a better internet connection to test these changes on PVP, but I have read other posts and checked on some questions that needed to be answered. **Recommended Items**: You forgot Sunfire Cape, (I don't have a list yet, but it's small). **General Stats**: You gave Garen more damage and less durability. I am still questioning this change and I need to play more matches to give this more thought. Otherwise, I kinda like the new auto-attack range. **Passive - Perseverance**: The regeneration nerf is reasonable due to Garen being able to "Mundo ult" his hp back. But the HP nerf does drop his passive's potential quite a bit. **Overall**, I believe this nerf is somewhat reasonable. **Q - Decisive Strike**: I am assuming you are trying to give enemy champions more "counterplay" while they fight against Garen, which gives them a reasonable chance for them to retaliate. **HOWEVER**, I consider the current Live Garen to be using his Q as "counterplay" against **certain champions that freaking counter Garen in the first place!** This nerf feels more harsher than what you claim (especially against Champions that hard counter Garen, the Ranged Champions). **Overall**, I dislike this change in general. The only good out of this is the increased auto-attack range. **Q - Decisive Strike - Compensation ideas**: You can compensate this silence nerf with a movement speed buff duration to be longer duration early game? Or you can make his silence duration affected by the longer Garen runs with his Q's buff active, so that the longer his Q is active, the longer the silence (hence, counters the "Brush of Death" or the "Flash of Justice" tactic by approximately one second?). **W - Courage**: The nerf on the Courage Passive is hard on Garen, **especially mid game**. Courage will almost always be the last ability to max out, and you are stuck with an extra measly 10 Armor and Magic Resist points for most of the game until late game where you can max up to 30 points each, which takes a total of 150 CS or 30 Champion/Giant/Epic Monster **Kills** (Not assists, you have to kill them. Good luck stealing Dragon from your jungler for a measly 1 point, not so much for the KS on enemy champions). As for obtaining these points, it seems pretty easy via CS until you end up fighting a ranged champion that makes it hard for Garen to farm properly early game, especially under his own turret. **Overall**, I dislike the Courage Passive change because it makes it harder for Garen to farm early game against champions that counter him (However, it is reasonable amount early game until your first back), very weak most of his mid game, and potentially the same as Live Garen's Passive late game (Meaning that Garen's Live Courage Passive is better somewhat early game after your first back, definitely better mid game, and potentially similar late game). As for the Courage Active having no more tenacity on one of the most easily kited champions, which is usually activated so that when you see hard CC flying your way you can break out of the hard CC sooner to protect your allies from at least one of the enemy champions, is a hard nerf. **Overall**, I dislike this change because the Live Garen's Active Courage feels more like a Vanguard AND a protector while the PBE Garen feels more like just a Vanguard. **W - Courage - Compensation Ideas**: I really have no true idea what you are trying to accomplish with the Courage changes other than the nerfs are compensation to the rest of his kit. The overall nerf makes me feel less like a Vanguard AND a Protector. The health-per-level nerf along with the 20% bonus armor and magic resist removed makes me feel less durable, **especially early and mid game**. This needs to be looked into more. **E - Judgement**: Holy crap there are a lot of changes. But long story short, you nerfed his early game damage for his late game damage. I personally like some of the changes here (such as spinning faster late game), but the one thing I have not only noticed but hate so much is the 20% slow for "touching" enemy champions you are chasing with this ability. It has increased the difficulty to trade with enemy champions early game, **and the increased auto-attack range has actually worsened the trade even more** (by ~50 units of range). What you have done here is you made it harder for Garen to trade during the laning phase early game, which is where he is supposed to be doing to begin with. This nerf needs to be reduced, reverted, or changed. As for the damage output, it is somewhat noticeable increase during late game compared to Live Garen, and a somewhat noticeable decrease early game compared to Live Garen. As for the loss of the Critical Strike Chance on his E, some primary damage items have lost effectiveness on Garen: the {{item:3031}} and {{item:3142}}. Overall, I am still pondering on some of the early game lost damage for late game extra damage as well as the cooldown reduction, I like the cooldown compensation for cancelling Judgement early, and I hate the 20% slow that hinders Garen in all regions of the game. **E - Judgement - Compensation Ideas**: The 20% slow must be changed as soon as possible because it is a noticeable hindrance on the fun of playing Garen. As for most of the changes, I am still considering what should be done and whether I truly like it or not and whether the changes are truly reasonable or not. **R - Demacian Justice**: So Garen officially has 3 passives... Interesting. So let's talk about the Villain mechanic. The new mechanic has officially made Garen an avenger (I thought Kalista was supposed to be?). After an ally dies to an enemy champion (this can include Garen dying by his enemy lane champion), Garen chooses to seek revenge and will deal bonus true damage to one particular target, the enemy with the most recent kill. This can potentially mean that the game can create a "noob trap" for new players to act as an Avenger and choose to ult the "Villain" rather than choosing the "Right" target to use the ultimate on, which there is an approximately higher than 20% chance that villain IS the Right Target to ult. Overall, I am glad to see some true damage finally come into play for Garen, especially on his ultimate. But on a mechanic that is not completely reliable on choosing the right target you would prefer to deliver justice to is disheartening. This new mechanic is indeed very fun and have no true objection to such a wonderful idea being implemented into the gme. I hate how you truly have no true control who deserves justice, but yet you do. **You have to hope the "Villain" is the "Right" Target to ult during the heat of battle**. **R - Demacian Justice - Compensation Ideas**: I hope you find a better way to implement true damage on his ultimate because this Villain mechanic needs much more "rework"/"reverted off Garen". But for dead certain, remove the 1% HP true damage for each strike and return some of that power back to the rest of his kit. **Overall PBE Changes**: I play Garen for a number of reasons: He has a great personality as a Vanguard and his reasons to be a General are mostly just, he is a durable champion, he has the potential to become a powerful carry, his **Perseverance (Passive)** maintains his position on the Fields of Justice as a Vanguard, his **Decisive Strike (Q)** allows you to decide when to lead the charge into battle and to decide who to strike with his charge, his **Courage (W)** increases your durability and if used at the right moments in battle it can potentially turn the tides of battle, his **Judgement (E)** can potentially shear multiple targets with a large amount of damage, his my most favorite reason of all, his Demacian Justice (R) where you can use the power of the heavens above and deliver that power into a potential fatal blow of justice against the enemy that **you** decide is worthy to be deleted from the battle (in the name of justice). So far, His Passive is still the same. His Q is not as reliable, even less so against enemy champions that hard counter or kite him. His W has lost its power to ensure Garen's early and mid game durability. His E is bad early game due to the "self-kiting" slow implemented on it but has gained some late game power via damage. His ultimate's villain mechanic is not completely reliable, you have more than a 20% chance that the Villain the game randomly chose due to circumstances you cannot completely control is going to be the "Right" Target for you to use your ultimate on during the heat of battle. As for the attempt to implement true damage on his ultimate, it's lovely. Overall, I prefer the Original Live Garen. The passive nerf is reasonable. I prefer the Original Garen Q because it helps you counter enemy champions that counter you. I prefer the original Garen W Passive because that 20% bonus Armor and Magic Resist Passive is much more reliable during your first early game back and during mid game than the crappy 10 points you get after slaying 50 minions or slaying 10 dragons on accident. I prefer the Original Garen W Active because the tenacity is the counterplay against champions that counter you with Hard CC and/or kiting. I am leaning towards **some** of the changes with PBE Garen E because Garen does need a bit of power late game. I prefer the Original Garen R because its less "forced" decisions on who to target for the ultimate and gives the player more "freedom" to decide who should really deserve justice. **Overall, I prefer the Original Garen**. I have only played 2 Co-op vs AI games and need to play PVP on the PBE to give a better evaluation, but this is what I have mostly speculated so far. I intend to re-edit what I have learned in-game in PVP or write another post once I receive better internet reliability. I will edit any mistakes after I get a full night's rest. _Last edited 8/6/2015_
Rioter Comments
: Garen Joke/Taunt sound bug
I noticed that on the PBE as well. Im about to check if it's on the live accounts because I do not recall this happening before. But there are a couple bugs left on Garen. One is that if Garen's Q is active, he struggles to hit the enemy Nexus. The second is iffy, but I have seen people sometimes flash out of Garen's ult, causing his ult to cancel.
: Game Queue Throttled
Confirmed for me. 1 hour.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Is there any way y'all can enable the previously earned emotes/load screen boxes to keep being used during this turn-off? Just curious.
That might be too much coding/recoding, so I think that's a no. Just wait until they patch up whatever is needed.
: Wins are worth about 3 times as much as losses. This would explain what you're seeing.
Sorry, I just changed my first reply on this topic to reflect better on what I was trying to explain about the Champion Mastery. Can you please read it and give me an update on whether it's reasonable change to the system or not?
: Hi, Will our previous masteries be saved when it is turned back on?
I assume it will. They just turned it off.
: Wins are worth about 3 times as much as losses. This would explain what you're seeing.
I'd assume as much. Thank You for the reply. I guess I am just hoping for the points to be calibrated a bit better for the losing team because I believed I did really well in those matches (The S grades I have received when I play Garen says so. Just saying :D ) But the points I receive feels a bit saddening (not much, just a bit) when I lose a game compared to when I win one. Obviously, Less points for losing is essential, but I think it might be a bit too much of a loss of points at the current state. That's my opinion on the point system so far. Maybe it should depend more better on how well the player plays that champion rather than wins or losses? Because those Garen matches, I did great. That Ashe match, i did decent. Maybe it should reflect solely on doing really well than more focused on winning or losing. (I do like the new Champion Mastery System, so keep up the good work!)
  Rioter Comments
: Bard causes bugsplat
My bugs: If anybody has vision of Bard picking up a chime, he will gain his movement speed buff, and he crashes the game. (seen on Elderwood Bard. I have not confirmed if it occurs on regular Bard)
Rioter Comments
: Useful information for new PBE players

Sageace PBE

Level 30 (PBE)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion