: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Underworld Wukong!
I'll start by saying I am a huge Wukong fan in general. I own every skin and play him over nearly all other champs. In the current state, I don't think I will be purchasing this skin. Positives * Beard is fantastic. * Armor is a fresh take. The asymmetry of it was well thought out. * Armor texture looks great and is suiting of the new SR. * Great new particle effects and voice mod is fun. Negatives * Many play Wukong because he is animal like and different than standard human champions. ( This skin pushes him away from his monkeyness.) * The skin color is really not pleasing to the eye. It looks like neon green play-doh. ( Perhaps it could be darkened up or changed.) * Needs fur or at least some interesting texture on skin. * Face color/shading looks washed out. It lacks contrast and depth. * Has silly teeth. Give some fangs instead. All monkeys have fangs right? I just think this a great opportunity to make Wukong a more feral gnarly beast. He instead looks more human than ever. The naked green skin is the biggest issue for me. It just doesn't seem to fit him. Overall it is an interesting concept. If you are set on losing the fur, even grayish or sort of dead skin color fading into spectral areas would even be a great improvement. Gray with the spectral leaking through fissures or runes would even be a cool possibility. You guys do a great job. Similar to Headhunter Cait I just feel this one needs some tweaking before it hits prime time.
: Ongoing: Mass Texture Rebalancing!
Please fix Wukong's face and hair. His hair looks fine in the splashes, but in game it looks like a brown soft serve. His face in game really leaves a lot to be desired. Room for tons of improvement.
: Gnar gameplay and balance feedback
This is a very cool concept and champion. So far he feels pretty spot on. My only critique is his mini form walk. I expected him to be more squirrel or chipmunk like in movement given that he presumably had to face a harsh environment as a yordle ancestor :) I know you want to show off his cute face, but his posture looks very strange as he is almost leaning over backward as he walks and really sticking out his stomach. I don't mind the goofy bounce in his step (it is endearing.) I think the riggers should re-evaluate the posture of the walk though.
: Gnar gameplay and balance feedback
> Hey guys, thanks for playing Gnar! > > Two major feedback points we're looking for: > -Balance considerations. This is a champion with very significant strengths and weaknesses. Is he strong and weak in ways that you think are appropriate? > -"Feel" feedback. Are there aspects you really love on this guy? Are there aspects you feel are off and are looking to be fixed? > > Gypsylord and I are very interested in everything you have to tell us about Gnar, thanks! > > Also, report any bugs in [this thread](http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bugs/0qdJs9Wk-gnar-bug-thread).
Rioter Comments
: PBE Bugs & Feedback: Headhunter Caitlyn!
Much happier with this iteration. It is much more in line with the other headhunters. It has a much more menacing silhouette as well. I may have missed, but I hope something is being done with the trap. The particle effect of the trap is cool, but it still looks like an 1800's bear trap. Other than that, great work! You really improved upon the initial design.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback: Headhunter Caitlyn!
I'm usually very positive about new skins. Headhunter is one of my favorite lines. I have some major issues with this one however. The other Headhunter skins favor rugged futuristic (bounty hunterish) efficiency. I love the idea of Caitlyn. Sophisticated yet sexy cop who you could imagine sharing a spot of tea. I can't even play her base skin. She looks like a clown.This seems in direct contradiction with her attitude and presence. Her hat is just ridiculous and seems more comedy than artistic high fashion. (I've always said a bowler's hat would be more fitting.) That being said, arctic and resistance are amazing. They have hats but they capture a woman with style and class. I was extremely excited when I heard about Headhunter. The gun is pretty slick and the effects look nice. The skin overall falls very short of what I would expect for both a Cait skin and the headhunter line. She looks straight out of He-Man. I see nothing resembling the high tech sniper I hoped for. I didn't think it was possible, but the hat looks even more clownish than her base. The traps at very least could use a shiny metallic re-color or something. Match the color to the gun or something. It looks like her body was smashed into a texturally boring armor with bulky obtrusive boots. Her boots should not draw the eye so much, as they make her movements look even more awkward. Overall I think time could have been better spent on VU for her first. This skin could have really benefited from better model animations and features. Everything about this skin does not fit the game or the skin line. I hate to be so critical as I typically love new skins, but I believe the mark was missed on this one. One final note: I think I would be ok with the helmet extension if it only came out for her ultimate or something with a laser target. I just would want something less bulky with maybe a HUD eye piece that represents a headhunting sniper. The current giant ornate robo-bird would kind of give away your position while you try to snipe.
: 4.6 Patch Forecast-- Jungle Tank Feedback.
I agree with you on many of your points. One thing to keep in mind... these guys are on a tightrope. Yes they are intended to be tank/utility junglers but this makes them very hard to balance. Give them just a hair too much dmg or natural regen and they become top lane gods or support gods. Why play a classic support when you can have the ying of annie's yang. Super tank with tons of utility who now gets way more gold and low mana costs or cooldowns? Bye bye standard supports. I would love to see these guys make a comeback but it may Take a very creative solution.
: Wukong changes
I am a lane Wukong main. His level 2 can be overwhelming for players not prepared for it. This is one of the things that I dislike about my favorite champ. I'm all for early all ins, but I don't want it to be a top laner's gimmick. I'd much prefer a more balanced curve. Currently the only way Wu can beat sustain tanks in lane is to all in them before their sustain gets out of control (or with jungle help.) He pretty much has to build early damage to be effective. His passive and armor shred allowed him to do this. If he doesn't get a kill he's just going to be a shallow off tank with a killer teamfight ult or a very poor glass cannon (Obviously he can do assassin like damage when fed. That is the point of high scaling.) My suggestion if these changes go through is a very slight mana regen buff early game. Make him ever so slightly less dependent on his mana. This could be tweaked by whatever cooldown changes are deemed necessary. I'd love to see his play pattern more similarly follow the manaless champs. I know that would probably take a complete redesign, but I enjoy his play style the most as an active harasser. I don't want to see him start spamming people out of lane. His current problem is that he has no sustain in both HP or Mana. His spell costs are fine. I feel that lowering those already low costs would be a bad move. I'd just like to see if you unload a full combo on a sustain tank and don't get the kill that you could move back to tower and farm while gaining some mana back to re-engage. Currently you are almost required to start flask to accommodate this active type of playstyle. This also gives the option of going for early lifesteal in a real way if you are a farmer type and want to build him very tanky or simply farm up to be that end game monster. TLDR: If changes go through. Give a very slight early game mana regen buff as a compensation to top laners. This would let him farm with slightly greater safety when going up against his typical lane bullies/sustain tanks.
Rioter Comments
: [Feedback] Artic Ops Varus
To go with his high tech special ops theme, I think it should be wire or cable instead of rope.
: Outnumbering your opponents is essentially the largest combat statistic in the game. Secondly, Boots of Mobility help you get to place where large concentrations of gold or experience exist, in the form of assists, et al. Which means that actual power of Boots of Mobility is that it helps get you combat statistics by the sheer power of **getting you there** and making sure you partake in the rewards. It's an extremely overlooked point of Boots of Mobility that champions who can opt into boots of mobility frequently can maintain a level or two above other champions attempting to do the same roaming pattern simply by virtue of being able to participate in more fights. You see this most with Supports / XP flow overall. In the end, Boots of Mobility actually give fairly strong in-combat advantages compared to the other boots, they're just hidden behind other systems in the game (ambient XP on creeps, etc.). Effectively, Boots of Mobility is 'Over the course of the game, you have +1 level'.
Makes total sense. I just wish there was a different way to address this. Nerfing the base just seems harsh. Basically after entering combat I now have the worst boots in the game(rightfully so, but now I am slower on top of no stats.) If I'm melee I can no longer stick to my target without a secondary speed item. If I'm a support I already can't win a fight by myself. My only chance is escape if a fight turns sour and I'm slower than anyone else with tier 2. I'd just much rather see something creative done with the bonus. I completely understand your point about the nature of their hidden power though, and am fine with some type of change. On a side note. Really cool to see you guys putting things out there for critique and discussion. It eases the shock of major changes. For those of us that are in to game design as much as we love the game itself, really gives some fantastic insight as to how you guys operate. Takes some nerve to put unfinished product up for public critique. I have been loving the openness of recent champion reworks and upcoming patch changes. I hope you guy always continue to be such a motivated and innovative company.
: [Planned 4.3] Itemization Changes (Boots / Duo Lane Gold Items / DShield / Ruby Crystal)
{{item:2045}} What about adding a bit of cost to Ruby Sightstone and adding 5% cooldown reduction. This would make the item very worth it for supports who don't grab 40% reduction in other items. This would also create another option for boots of luci buyers who will be missing that 5%. It will just spread out the cost over time.
: [Planned 4.3] Itemization Changes (Boots / Duo Lane Gold Items / DShield / Ruby Crystal)
{{item:3117}} My concern is boots of mobility. These are one of my favorite items in solo queue as they can really make up for lack of awareness in teammates you can't control. You can sacrifice resists for more frequently being able to show up at the right place at the right time. So now, why would I use these to scout out or try to lay a quick ward as support? If i get so much as a lovetap I become slower than every other champion in the game (assuming most other players would have tier 2 boots?) This will be awful as a support against champions that already have more movement speed than myself. If I'm automatically slower in combat than my opponent, I might as well get merc or tabi or luci to try to outplay or survive. This change just doesn't make sense to me, and I would probably stop buying the item. Why not keep the base the same and take the bonus down, or am i missing something in how the mechanics of this item work?
: I am just worried that this will turn around the toplane and support meta more than intended. While I agree that Doran's Shield is too strong of an option right now, nerfing Thresh/Renekton simultaneously might push them out of competitive viability.
You think Doran's nerf shield will make Thresh nonviable competitively? Heaven forbid he has to buy one of the support items now. Even though he doesn't get the execute, it's not like he has trouble last hitting with relic shield. Ancient coin is always viable as well. He just won't be able to be as madly aggressive now. I love thresh and want him to be strong, I just think your point is a bit of an over dramatization.
: I think that his ultimate looks a little underwhelming right now, the wording for Arcane Barrage says that Xerath calls down a blast of arcane energy, right now it looks like he is just catapulting balls of energy.
I would be ok with balls of energy if they didn't fire off in such a lobbing fashion. I'm not saying change the speed of the projectile, but making it more bullet like would be awesome. A more impactful explosion at the end with a great sound effect would be all it needs IMO. If he's gonna be the long range siege mage I want to feel like I'm firing a deck gun with his ult haha.
: Xerath's kit and new voice is cool but the ultimate is lacking.
Started a new thread but I see someone had already started this discussion. Here is my input on it. I'm really enjoying the new kit and have been pretty positive about it other than similar complaints to others about the ult feeling a bit disjointed if being focused upon, especially by gap closers in teamfights. It's one thing in lane. You should have your stun and slow for intelligent escape. If you've used your normal cooldowns in the teamfight, I feel his ult presents one of the few situations where you may not even want to use it in a skirmish. Who wants a champion where you might not even want to use his ult? Needless to say, I'm glad to hear the sound effects. His moves feel like they have much more impact. I've been a bit underwhelmed with ultimate feeling "powerful" as well. I was going to reserve judgement until the SFX were in place. After having finally heard them... As the visual is pretty weak, I was hoping for an outstanding audio effect. I had crossed my fingers for 50cal deck gun or nuclear explosion. The sound effect unfortunately has all the latent power of Pop Rocks. I've also mentioned the name **Shocking Orb** sounds like a generic electric move. I would hope to see something a bit more interesting and arcane feeling. Stasis Orb was fine. Everything else is feeling really good. I'm excited for the next iteration.
: Hexakill Enabled on PBE!
Really enjoying this mode. Enjoying the free form meta with roaming mob squads. So many options and possibilities. I could see this mode being much harder to balance but it makes for some great fun. Warding is of the absolute utmost importance with this game mode. Another big jungle objective could really take this to the next level.
: Xerath rework now back on PBE
The thing that is really killing his ult for me at this point is not having the option to have it cast on button release. It felt great in the last iteration when using range indicators. I'm not sure why it was switched as you had the option to have upon press with regular smart cast.
: Always Crashing in Champion Select
It has actually been crashing for me during loading screen. Champ select was just fine.
: Xerath rework now back on PBE
A couple of points of about v10. 1. On his ultimate, when using smart cast with range indicators the barrage fires were upon button release similar to most other smart cast skill shots. I don't like the change to auto smart cast. I wish there was some way that we had the option to choose. 2. I preferred the old ultimate name. W name change is great. E name change seems a bit strange to me. I thought one of the points of this entire rework was to take away the electric mage theme and bring him more in line with the arcane fantasy. Shocking Orb would suggest otherwise. I really preferred Stasis Orb.
: My impressions of Xerath Rework V9 **Does the ultimate feel good for Xerath and for his enemy?** While the ultimate feels pretty good for Xerath players, I feel that it has one flaw for opponents. If they are caught in a 2sec stun (maybe 1.5sec) from Xerath's E you are able to unload a full combo plus 3 ult shots on the stunned opponent. **Is it overly stressful to try and dodge it?** It seems as if it's almost too easy to dodge. I havn't played against a Xerath yet, but the "Tell" circle vs the projectile impact delay seems to have sightly more time than necessary. **Does Xerath ever hold shots in his ultimate or does he always fire them off rapid-fire?** I believe there is a place for Xerath to be holding his shots. His Ultimate can(/is?) be used to try to steal Dragon/Baron/Buffs. Versus champions however, no I don't feel there is any reason (at this time) to not spam his ult to counter dodging the impacts. **How safe is Xerath in lane?** Xerath feels no more vulnerable than any other caster with no escape. The stun on his E, the slow on his W, and effective warding seems to make his safety comparable to Lux. **And finally, what about Xerath in odd positions? Jungle Xerath? Support Xerath?** I cannot report on the actual viability of the odd positions as I have not tried any of the above but I could definitely see Xerath filling other roles. He would feel much like a Jungle Karthas in that he would need HP but could mana sustain very well. Support is a no brainer, if Ashe can do it because of a slow and a stun why couldn't Xerath? I could even see Xerath played top in certain match ups. **Other Input** Xerath's Q lets the enemy know too many times that it is coming. From the first cast it felt very clunky. I cannot think of any other spell that has three tells that it's coming. First the charge up of the spell causes one animation, then the release of the charge immediately puts the path of travel on the ground but triggers a needlessly long animation where Xerath rears back before throwing the bolt forward causing significant enough delay that the enemy is able to easily get out of the narrow path of travel. **Proposed Changes** *Siege Champion, not an Assassin* Increase ult siege mode animation, increase projectile speed and damage ratio. CoBTyrannon mentions "Way too much damage with base skills.... E-W-DFG-W lands+slow-Q Combo." When in reality a full 2 second E stun can procure E-DFG-W-R-R-(Enemy unstunned)-R-"Charge and chase Q". It's assassin level of burst damage. When I think Siege, I think Starcraft siege tanks. Long time to root yourself to the ground then big damage. Say, 1.5 sec for Siege mode animation, and reworked projectile speed of say 1500-1800 where, if the enemy is close enough to silence or knock you out of your siege mode they are at high risk of taking a blast to the face, but if you are really going to siege them, they have a chance to move away from the blast zone. This increase in animation time would keep Xerath's small burst combo E-W-Q on par with other mages, but would remove the integration of his ult into his combo and keep it as a tool to siege. A different, but imo less effective, way to slow his assassin burst would be to put a short delay in between shots. I say less effective on this though as I feel it would take away from Xerath's counterplay from people simply dodging the shots. I feel he needs to be able to spam all three shots fairly quickly to have a better chance of landing the shots in a 1v1 situation. *Q Changes* I think Xerath's Q can be fixed by eliminating the the first half of the release animation or by speeding it up. There is no need for the exaggerated rear back and throw other than for aesthetics. By eliminating the first half of or speeding this animation you can control how easy it is to counter this ability.
"Xerath's Q lets the enemy know too many times that it is coming." While I agree that it can be difficult to not give away you are about to Q, I did find an interesting mind game that has now been added. Often times opponents try to proactively dodge the Q when at low health if they see you charging. I like that fact that you can keep it charging longer than they might expect. It creates a bit of cat and mouse with the opponent. The flash during Q cast still works as well. If you force a flash from the charge up when opponent is low health you can flash during the spell cast animation forward to increase its reach.
Rioter Comments
: Xerath rework now back on PBE
After actually getting some playtime on the PBE with Xerath, I have some notes. I really love his QWE. I think they have great synergy and his kit is overall more dynamic and fun to play. I have some concerns with his ult and how it pertains to his kit. It feels great as long range artillery or as an execute for following up harass or a combo. When being pursued or gap closed upon however, it feels disjointed from the rest of the kit or even useless. Live Xerath of course actually used it as an active part of his stun combo. It used to be you set up in W and fired off your payload followed by releasing w for a speed boost that allowed you to make a tactical decision of pursuit or spell kiting retreat. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the new ult, I just have suggestion you'll find below for what I feel is an interesting change. I feel his new kit lends itself well to kite/casting but his ult runs completely contrary to this. The problem with his current ult is that it literally just roots you in place and offers damage alone. If you do not kill your target you die. This is not as much the case in lane because you should use your cooldowns intelligently and save yourself an out. Most characters can use their ult to turn the tide of a duel as well. With the current group of bursty gap closing assassins that now roam mid lane, and the delay of casting your ult, it doesn't offer the tide turning power that you would want after already being closed on. It is simply a one trick pony (Ranged execution/artillery.) With team fights now, after you unleash all your cooldowns you typically would like to ult to finish people. This is mainly what the ult is good for now. It does not provide the team melting AE it used to. I'm not complaining about this, I'm just stating the difference. Here lies the problem. You've unloaded all your moves and use your ult, the fight turns bad and you are getting engaged on? Your long cc cooldowns are likely still up from trying to AE the group. You will most likely die and your ult must keep stationary to do damage. I have a suggestion for the ult that I think would provide satisfaction for all parties involved. I say we remove the reduced cooldown for breaking ascension early. I suggest a 2 part ultimate. **Ascension/Arcane Release**( Or insert better name here.) Ascension - Xerath ascends to his true form, becoming rooted in place and gaining 3 Arcane Barrages. This magic artillery deals 140/190/240 (+0.3*AP) magic damage to all enemies hit. If Arcane Barrage only hits a single target, it deals 75% extra damage. Secondary use: Arcane Release - If Xerath breaks his true form before firing any shots he will release his gathered energy damaging and knocking back enemies in a circle around himself (Similar to Janna ult but much smaller knockback.) The the area of effect, power of knockback and damage will be reduced for each shot fired while in ascension. If Xerath fires all three shots in ascension, Arcane Release will not be available. I believe this would give Xerath a more interesting dynamic for his ult. It would offer so many gameplay decisions as well as all around fun. I believe having a defensive option would allow for better synergy with his other moves. You can increase your kiting/escape options at the expense of significantly less damage. This would make up for the lack of speed boost upon releasing his "self root." I know it may be too far into the game to consider a change this big, but I really think it would complete his kit. Sorry for the giant post. Interested in how the rest of you feel.
: Xerath rework now back on PBE
**Some initial thoughts.** Hopefully intended, **W** still lands if death occurs after cast. Hilarious to die but still watch an arcane meteor land and smash your opponent. This skill feels pretty unoriginal, but is satisfying to use properly and the visual is great. **Q:** charge above head is a bit awkward looking. Why not have him charge in front of his chest where his power seems to focus anyway. He fires from there and it would still have a strong visual queue for opponents. Use of it feels good. The delay after cast takes some getting used to but simply requires predicting opponents path. This can be challenging and is intended I would assume. I find it interesting that people complain about this and that his laning is too easy in the same paragraph. **Passive:** Feels satisfying especially on champions. Encourages good mechanics if being engaged on, get those extra AA's while kiting! Also feels a bit uninspired as you don't make any tactical decisions with it for the most part you will AA same as normal. **R:** Feels a bit delayed after initial activation. I think the actual explosion particle on impact should be slowed down for aesthetic reasons. A bit hard to gauge how this feels without sound. (Hopefully sounds like a tactical nuke.) Mechanically feels good. Field of explosion is small enough for opponent to have some counter play/juking. **E:** Visual might be improved by putting an actual stasis field around opponent. Would feel much more satisfying to land and would really give a visual queue to your teammates in team fights. Get HIM! He's in an arcane bubble! Just enlarge the particle and give transparency when surrounding enemy champ after impact. Sorry I'm giving extra homework on this one. Overall he is much more dynamic and fun to play than before. I like the direction of the rework.


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