: MYMU - Vladimir Discussion
There are more problems than good in this update, as far as your 1v1 concerns go, that's a situation with a full build that happens on many current champions on live. Consider a full build syndra combo, or master Yi. If you were to approach this iteration of Vlad 1v1, engage right after hes used an empowered transfusion. Or Try to flash his E. Or just get a banshee's veil, same idea.
: Is there any chance you guys could let us try it as a "true" AoE for a few days? It's not a very difficult coding shift to change the piercing of the projectile, and I think you might garner some interesting feedback from the playerbase if we have data from both a projectile-based nova, and a true AoE nova.
I second this, I understand the whole goal of Counterplay and all, but let's be real here. There is a 1 second charge-up on a spell that takes 10% of your max health that has a shorter range than the original Tides of Blood that can also now be interrupted. You could even nerf the damage if you want to, in my opinion it's more important for a kit to 'feel' good and be cohesive. Like for example, I was playing on PBE yesterday and had been extremely far ahead item wise. I engaged the enemy bot lane and mid laner in the tribrush. In this situation on live Vlad Pulling off my combo and followup after pool would normally kill 1-2 targets and move onto the third securing a triple kill. Instead with the new Kit, I sacrificed a large chunk of health, Dealt less than my usual total damage, then got CCed while charging my followup E while returning from Sanguine pool, cutting the cast to minimum damage and letting the rest escape, then kite me to death with only Q to followup. This is quite a big disadvantage that cuts into the reliability Vlad was known for, With the current kit we're more suited to sit on the sidelines firing off E's at whomever we can hit rather than going into the thick of the fight as usual.
: > [{quoted}](name=B1gpoop,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=geVackqi,comment-id=0022,timestamp=2016-04-21T05:16:30.184+0000) > > How do you feel about having the ult give 50% (or something) of the regular healing if a target dies before 4 seconds? Having to choose between potentially life saving healing and killing an enemy now seems like a lose lose situation. There's a huge disconnect with a damage amp making it faster for your team to kill someone but you wanting them to live a little longer so you get health back. It's intended that when a champion with Hemoplague dies, they trigger the heal immediately! If this is not working, that's a bug, so please let me know :D
A question about hemoplague heal for the sake of clarity, is the amount healed mitigated by defenses like spellvamp? Or will I receive the full amount per target regardless? if it is mitigated, then we'll probably be pulling some pretty low numbers even on a 5 man ult, especially with the (crippling) changes to grevious wounds. I played on PBE today and wow, 8 seconds is a long time. We disengaged a fight, I ran off to heal up at wolves as per usual and just about died due to that reduction.
: Posted this at the top, but throwing it in a comment to bump: --edit 4/21. 2:50 PM PDT: -- * Hey all! In response to the feedback on E's hit/blockability, I've just got some changes in for tomorrow's PBE build: * Maximum missiles blocked by minions 7 >>> 5 * Missiles additionally deal their damage to neighboring minions within a small, 'under-the-hood' aoe around the target * Tooltip updated for clarity, now includes mention of the blocking mechanic * Target ting indicator updated to look more like Ashe Volley (shows lines for each missile) * These changes should make some feelable improvements when using E near a minion wave and add some additional clarity to what the ability does. No tuning changes yet, but still keeping an eye on his Q's tuning, as there are some reports of healing / damage being lower than expected. -- Thanks again for all the feedback guys! --
The bit about dealing damage to nearby minions seems like a good change, The max projectile block seems unintuitive if it works the way I think it will. If I E With 3 minions to my left, and 2 champions one standing in front of the other to my right. If the minions absorb 5 projectiles on the right, will the rest on the left all become pass-through and hit both champions? or stop on the first champion hit as usual?
: Same, I read this comment and tried to use that in lieu of flash and I failed both E and that :P Also E can be ***released*** during W but not ***cast*** during W so if you want to pull that combo off, you always have to wait for E before you sink into the pool.
Note : Vladimir can cast Sanguine Pool without interrupting the charge of Tides of Blood, but the second cast of Tides of Blood will cause Vladimir to surface from Sanguine Pool early. This is a nono for me, that will mess with the damage output of pool and untargetability, Given casting E and W won't be instantaneous, you'll be limiting your pool to something like 1 second or 1.25 seconds of damage and untargetable.
: Sounds like you've experienced E's cost to far outweigh the healing on the kit. The last thing I want is for Vladimir to be weak, especially as it relates to his healing! We took a stab at accounting for the lack of spellvamp by making his empowered Q and R healing high, but admittedly we may not have gone far enough. There has been a lot of similar feedback from others as well, and I won't hesitate more healing to LoL's premiere healing mage, but I'd like to see if still feels that way after people adjust to the new healing paradigm.
Adding on to this, E's health cost isn't felt much in lane due to getting an empowered Q cast on a minion. But once we move into Mid/late game, repeated casts of E will be felt as you won't always get to use your empowered Q since your ally killed the last minion, or there's no enemy in range. The basic Q's sustain isn't really felt much. If that's the intention, so be it, but I can't quickly heal up off of jungle camps in a few seconds as I used to. You can still do it, it just means having to wait for 2-3 empowered Qs.
: I'll check out those hit boxes -- does it seem like the missiles fall a bit short, or long? On Tides of Blood -- Our original model was actually very similar to your suggestion! We ended up here for a few reasons, but the biggest of which is that when Vladimir spends that much time charging up spells, he doesn't feel like Vladimir anymore -- That is, Vlad has always been a high-frequency caster, and slowing that down with big charge ups really had a lot of feel costs there. On health builds -- This is something I've been worried about. The proposed model is that while HP is good for Vlad, he NEEDS AP to make it worth it. Without AP scaling up his healing though Q and R, his large health pool should count for little with his high health costs and low healing. I expect Rylais and Protobelt to be especially good for that reason, but if he ends up building all HP beyond that, we have problems and will need to make AP proportionately more valuable.
I'll be testing high health builds at every opportunity going forward, But from calculations on the numbers, and what I've experienced so far in game, E alone without any AP investment can wave clear just fine. The hitboxes are falling short, I'm about 80% sure that the projectiles have touched minions/champions with no other obstruction and missed. I understand the frequency of spellcasts, but we already have a bit of that in Q and instant casting E, I like the idea of choosing how much health we can afford to sink into a cast much like Nunu does with the channel on his ultimate.
: Acccctually, vladimirs new Q passive IS every other use, because the empoewered Q counts towards the next empowered Q. Which is nice. So the only time it will take 3 Q is the first time you do it the entire game. Q-1stack Q-2stack Q-empowered, back to 1 stack Q-2 stacks Q empowered and 1 stack etc. Like yis passive counts toaards his next passive.
Unless you miss crimson rush,
: Hey Kelta, I'm sorry you had a bad time, thanks for sharing. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of your frustrations here seem aimed at the current tuning (E cost too much, Q heals too little, R deals too little damage). It could well be that he's undertuned -- he's undergone a lot of change and his balance level at the moment is our best approximation. If Vladimir is weak, where would you most like to see more power allocated? Based on your feedback above, it seems like unempowered Q healing is particularly lackluster, is that right?
I already made a separate post for this, but I guess if you're checking this thread I'll summarize for you. This is coming from someone who's played an upwards of 1500-2000 Vlad games since the beginning. He's my favorite Champion so It's important to me that this gets done right. * Q's flat healing on crimson rush is incredibly strong, lane sustain has never been easier and it may be over-tuned despite what others are saying. I assume the idea behind it is that opponents are meant to watch for Crimson rush and deny the enhanced damage/healing, but unless you restrict it to champions people will complain about it constantly on live until it's nerfed. * E's lack of piercing projectiles are incredibly awkward and frustrating, the fact that one minion or champion can block 3-4 projectiles of the nova makes aiming it really awkward. It's not at all what I pictured when I initially read the notes. * Due to the short charge time, there isn't much of a decision between charging a little or a lot, even with the slow (Which I believe swifties partially mitigates) If I'm not under half health, I'll usually be full charging it at all times. * Changes to the AP and HP scaling on E as well as the passive conversion has made AP incredibly unattractive versus health. I've had all of my success with Rylai/Liandry and defensive health items rather than building more AP on top of that. It's just not worth it for the return to be a squishy mage anymore. 10% of max HP is just a huge damage source that I can't ignore. * The hitbox doesn't match the current animation at Max range * The In game tooltip won't update the damage contribution from health until skilled up. * During lane I've barely needed hemoplague, as 3rd Q and E's damage has been more than enough to destroy opponents, even more so with health favored builds which further strengthens Sanguine pool. Given the lack of extra targets and the poor AP scaling, there isn't much reason to use it outside of team fights. Late game I feel the health returned won't matter much against a team building defenses due to mitigation, even on all 5. Here's my suggestion, Tides of Blood doesn't feel like it has a very big payoff on the charge time, Maybe extend the time we can charge it, and retune the damage for the first second, and as a result let it pierce all targets. That way there's a point to using it during Sanguine pool's slow and no more awkward minion block. I do think you should look at the numbers on Q and R and maybe move things around a bit more, I heard the direction was to be a mage with a focus on damage, If it went to live like this, there will be nothing but tank builds barring Rylai/Liandry.
: Vladimir Rework Impressions
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