: Sejuani Feedback Thread
4/25 Happy with the latest iteration, toning down her slightly. W Hitbox: 160 ->145 (Spell was cheating, reduced to match indicator) HP Ratio 1st/2nd: 2/5% -> 1.5/4.5%
: Sejuani Feedback Thread
Did some iterations over the weekend to cut down on the number of forced mechanics that point to jungle. (Even though we want her to jungle, it probably can be done a bit more elegantly than having multiple jungle only interactions) **Compared to the old '4/23' changelist** Passve Icebreaker now always deals 400 damage vs monsters instead of max 400 W W1 knocks minions and monsters back W no longer deals bonus damage to monsters E No longer has reduced cd vs monsters Limits the number of jungle specific interactions to 1 (Icebreaker damage, which was already there anyway). I'm pretty confident these changes make her jungle significantly safer, would love feedback from less skilled jungles if such people exist here :p **Full 4/23 Changelist** Passive Frost Armor no longer broken by minions or small monsters Icebreker Damage: 15/20/25% -> 10/15/20% Icebreaker Damage vs monsters: max 400 -> always 400 W No longer self slows, not worth W1 now knocks back minions and monsters CD: 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 -> 9/8/7/6/5 1st hit Damage: 12/19/26/33/40 (+0.01HP) -> 30/35/40/45/50 (+0.02HP) 2nd hit Damage: 48/76/104/132/160 (+0.04HP) -> 40/80/120/160/200 (+0.05HP) Bonus damage to monsters: 20% -> 0%
: The changes to Frost Armor are in the right direction. Not being broken by minions at 7 is a huge thing for Lane Sejuani, though by the time Jungle Sejuani hits 14 she probably doesn't care so much about non-epic monsters breaking Frost Armor (I dunno, I haven't been able to make her work very well in the jungle yet). The cooldown changes are nice, though I would have settled for 12 seconds while retaining the cd scaling down with movement, I did like that facet of the ability and often purchased and played around it. --- W-2 feels a little better, the fix for moving through your target when you cast the ability improves the usability a ton. This said, I've noticed a slight "delay" between when the ability visually ends and when you can actually act (cast spells, activate items, etc), if this is tightened up (so that, for instance, you could basic attack right as the ability ends visually) it would feel even better to use. The slow for hitting W-2 feels good, it's brief but feels nice to land. The self-slow is a little more than "slight", it's nearly 100ms. I'd like to see Frost Armor's immunity to slows applied here, if for nothing but consistency, but also because it would allow the player to feel the difference between W with Frost Armor, and W without, making Frost Armor a more important part of the kit without actually doing anything. I'd also have the slow build up over a very brief period of time, rather than all at once, as if she's aiming the swing. It's a little jarring the way it currently stands. --- --- --- **Unrelated to the changelist** Icebreaker. I'm fine with Icebreaker providing some burst, I'm happy for the change of pace to be honest, but this should not be done at the expense of -**all**- Sejuani's sustained damage capabilities. I feel useless once I've triggered my Icebreaker damage, just waiting until the stun CD times out (fight's over by then most times) and I can apply Frost again because everything's so loaded into this ability. _Please_ tone down Icebreaker's burst and push some of those numbers into W (specifically, the base damage on W-1 and the scaling on both W-1 and W-2. It could be AD, AP, or additional HP scaling, but it needs something), this will both help her jungle clear (because icebreaker doesn't work on small monsters) and make her feel more fair to play against. **Personally, I'd make Icebreaker E's passive, and allow the damage to scale off AP/Health/Whatever (after the base has been reduced, obviously), while normalizing the stun duration, while moving the "Warband" passive currently on E over to "Fury of the North"**. This would allow players to opt into increasing Icebreaker's damage through alternative builds, which people have been asking for, while also reducing the absurd power loaded into this ability currently. --- **Permafrost (E) feels extremely bad. This is the biggest issue with her kit currently.** Everything else can be tweaked and fiddled with and shuffled around, because those are mostly a matter of numbers at this point, but this needs serious attention before it goes live. You want Sejuani to tend towards the bursty side of tanks, but I think you're going about it all wrong by loading it all into Icebreaker. Make Permafrost (E) similar to what it is on Live, one big AoE triggering of Frost stacks on enemies around her. Suddenly her gameplay becomes much more focused around the timing of that ability (stunning as many enemies as possible with a single cast), her positioning during the fight (in the middle where she can activate as many Frostbitten targets as she can and apply as much of it as possible), and once that ability is down her opponents have some room to breathe. It's still a critical skill to her kit in this way, but much more engaging for everyone involved, especially compared to the current version. This would make for an excellent moment of burst damage during a fight, which can be followed up with targeted Icebreaker procs, that both sides can agree that Sejuani and her team built up towards. "But if you're stunning multiple targets at once, won't Icebreaker be much harder to trigger on everyone?" Allow W-2 to trigger Icebreaker (the animation fits it perfectly), and boom, you've added weight to the skill and provided a way for skilled Sejuani players to trigger multiple instances of Icebreaker at once, given proper timing and positioning with multiple spells, providing added depth to the character for hardly any effort.
Hey thanks for the detailed feedback! The next changelist should address most of what you brought up here but wanted to talk about the Permafrost change you pitched. It was actually the very first iteration I tried in testing (although the very first one procced off slows instead of melee attacks), it had a number of issues that caused me to move away from it: The spell lacked the feeling of intent, both from Sejuani and the enemy. The were numerous cases where Sejuani stunned someone (while looking at someone else who also had stacks) and went 'oh that guy got stunned?' (or worse, didnt realize it) and the enemy felt that he got stunned 'collaterally' It was immensely powerful when it did work out (rarely). Even though the current one has a minuscule cooldown on it, the power difference between a simultaneous stun (on a basic) and a staggered one was massive. Sejuani was encouraged to hold it for the multi stun, but was consistently frustrated that her allies could not get the stacks / stacks fell off (and we were unable to let Sejuani herself reliably stack multiple targets at once for power reasons). This led to Sejuani just looking for the single stun, which was not fun for anybody.
: Sejuani Feedback Thread
4/23 Lot of changes, but most should be self explanatory Passive Frost Armor no longer broken by minions or small monsters Icebreker Damage: 15/20/25% -> 10/15/20% W No longer self slows, not worth CD: 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 -> 9/8/7/6/5 1st hit Damage: 12/19/26/33/40 (+0.01HP) -> 30/35/40/45/50 (+0.02HP) 2nd hit Damage: 48/76/104/132/160 (+0.04HP) -> 40/80/120/160/200 (+0.05HP) Bonus damage to monsters: 20% -> 30% E Frost cooldown on monsters: 4 seconds
: Sejuani Feedback Thread
4/21 Passive CD 15 -> 9 No longer scales down with movement Now ignores minions at 7 and non epic monsters at 14 (a la Garen) W 2nd hit places a brief slow on enemies it hits, Sejuani is also slightly slowed when she is attacking (mostly to add the feel of weight, feedback here would be very appreciated) W radius larger Fixed a bug that caused Sejuani to move into the target when she right clicks them while casting W
: Sejuani Feedback Thread
4/20 Minor changes W should be easier to hit, especially in the jungle Casting E resets autoattack timer Things being looked at for hopefully 4/21 Early jungle clear W not feeling impactful enough
: https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/MymFEVM9-sejuani-critique-and-suggestions meant to link this as well I could live with the E mechanics, if it wasn't the defining part of her kit and all her power was located in that burst of usefulness. I _strongly_ urge you to consider cutting down on her passive's burst damage and shuffling her back toward sustained patterns. I'd like it to be made a two-cast ability (or add a third swing somewhere and make it a 3-parter!), with maybe a longer delay on the W2 to make up for being able to redirect it. I also think that being a sustained threat was actually very unique to her, because unlike other tanks like Zac who were more intermittent bursts after their first rotation, she was an _actual_ DPS tank, and IMO it should be considered just as much a part of her identity as anything. I was actually kind of hoping her Q had changed in some major aspect too; it's never been a particularly satisfying ability. Even just a short little wind-up akin to Galio's E (without the backwards leap) would have made it more enjoyable. I love wind-ups. {{champion:420}} Forgive me if I'm being too aggressive. I've spent a _lot_ of time imagining how I would have reworked Sejuani with her current kit in mind, and these are very jarring to me, to say the least.
I do feel you are overrating the uniqueness of a tank who DPSs. I would argue that tanks who DPS are the norm, and the bursters the outliers. Amumu, Nautilus, Maokai etc. tend to be very dps based. Also, Sejuani still deals quite a bit of sustained damage with W, while the icebreaker is definately the 'flashy' part, her damage (vs champions) in testing has generally been split 50/50 between physical and magic. Which means Basics + W = Q+E+R + Icebreaker + Sunfire and stuff.
: Personally, I would want AP Sejuani to be possible in the same way that AP Kog Maw is possible, just because it opens up fun off meta build paths that I would play in normals occasionally. Obviously, that's not really a major priority, but I'm someone who really enjoys testing out random silly builds, which is partially why I've played League for as long as I have. I was mainly curious if off meta builds are generally ever considered when making the numbers for ability ratios? As for building offensively, I really wouldn't expect a tank Sejuani to start building AP in any scenario just because there are better options, like the new version of abyssal scepter which will improve her passive damage.
Ah I was trying to understand if you just want an 'off meta' offensive build to be possible, or if you specifically wanted 'ap build' to be viable. Off builds are tricky because they tend to be outside our design process, so we usually do not want them to be completely 'viable'. Hitting the line between making them possible while not making them fully viable is tricky. Or we get AP Tryn or AP Xin \\\
: Only huge issue I have with the rework is that the w feels a little clunky to use, the ability has a strange feel on the double cast making it hard to aim , especially to any moving targets. Possibly if was a dual cast ability or something it would feel better, the second part just feels super strange, could be just because its new. I really like the rest of the rework, super fun and I like this sorta lock down feel shes got. Keep up the good work!
Do you find Taric E clunky as well? This was a worry I had with the W, where the targeting paradigm is a relatively foreign one. It probably is the freedom of movement you have while you are swinging the W2. I wanted to maintain complete freedom of movement while casting W but it definitely takes a hit in making the spell feel less weighty. Tell me if it starts growing on you with plays or it remains foreign.
: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/R7vo6UuA-new-sejuani-has-the-exact-same-problems-you-said-you-wanted-to-fix i really hate this rework. the only thing I like so far is the new ult, and even that feels hideously underwhelming when the rest of her kit is taken into consideration. E mechanic is the one thing I genuinely hoped got removed and it was made the focal point of her kit. counterplay? barely, fun? nonexistent why did you change the entire champion and what she's good to pick for. late game teamfight tank shifted to an early-mid melee-ganker
I'm sorry to hear that, and if the E mechanisms are not your cup of tea you definitely would hate the new Sejuani :/ She was shifted because most of our tanks fit that same bill. We wanted to create diversity between our tanks instead of leaving them as AOE dot + teamfight winning ult. A separate point I saw on your linked post: Overreliance on ultimate is not an issue because spells need to have similar levels of power across the kit, it is an issue due to the nature of ultimates as high cooldown abilities. Having too much budget in a character's ultimate leads to the character being near useless for the majority of the game when the ultimate is unavailable.
: Is making AP no longer really viable on Sejuani an intended result of the rework? I understand that the intent was to make tanks who don't build damage to stop doing damage, but I had presumed that would mean a hit to the base damages rather than the ratios. I know it's not the intent of the rework, but AP Sejuani was one of my favorite off meta picks, and I'm disappointed that such a build is no longer viable.
It was not the goal, although we do want to discourage tanks from oneshot bursting people (like AP Malphite or Amumu) even if they build offensive. Sejuani really doesn't go there though. Do you want Sejuani to have a way to build offensively, or do you specifically want AP Sejuani?
  Rioter Comments
: Magic Shield Feedback Thread
Updated to use a similar blue for the colorblind mode per feedback. How does this feel now?
  Rioter Comments
: Galio Feedback Thread
Update 2! Would especially like feedback on the spell queuing stuff. Do you notice any bugs?
: Galio Feedback Thread
Updated changelist, thanks for all the feedback. Keep them coming!
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: Yorick Update Feedback Thread
Note that I will be making edits to the original post as we go. Please check out the top of the post for changelists!
: Before I say anything, as the "One Yorick Fan" who said on the Twitch stream that he didn't like the rework, thanks for laughing at me. Really classy, sir. :/ That said, what I discovered in my game (custom game vs bot): * The auto attack animation feels very slow and way too easy to cancel. * The Q attack needs some indicator when it's safe to do the attack-reset. It also feels like a weaker and more expensive version of Nasus's Siphoning Strike. * Having such little control over the Mist Walkers and the Maiden goes against what a minion mage should feel like. Why would I play Yorick when I can play Malzahar? * I'm not sure if this is intentional, but I've walked through several of my opponent Yorick's W as Ziggs. (We had a Yorick on our team as well, though). * Why is there AP scaling on Yorick's new E? * All of the video previews in his champion section are of the old Yorick.
Apologies if it sounded like I was laughing at you, that was definitely not the intent. The joke (maybe executed poorly) was supposed to be about how we would be really happy if only one person disliked the update (since to some degree, updates by their very nature will make devotees angry) -Auto speed is on par with other juggernauts, it is intended to feel slow and weighty -Agreed and in the works -Fair criticism, and a tradeoff we decided to make on taking this direction. We wanted to portray Yorick as more of a 'shepherd' rather than someone who exhibits iron control over his minions -If that is happening would be a bug / client desynch -Not intended to scale with items, but to allow for some small optimizations/ usage of certain buffs/ fun builds -We will update them sometime around when we go live Thank you and again, very sorry if I offended you with my dumb joke!
: Hey, I was messing around in a custom game and I had an interesting bug happen. I did dragon, an earth drake, then I walked over to the enemy blue buff and was about to tab out to check some stuff, when an enemy nidalee bot walked by at half health. Maiden of the Mist automatically attacked her with her ghouls of course, my ult fully ranked, and easily killed her. I got the notification that I killed her, and then I got a notification that Nidalee destroyed a turret without any turrets being destroyed.
Interesting, no idea how that could happen, will try to figure out if its a Yorick thing
: Hey I gave my feedback in this thread here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/PbaI4hh7-yorick-feedback-after-a-few-games-of-yorick-on-pbe Pretty hard feedback but thats cool. He's a bit of a boring champion playstyle, but you guys released the dynamic and unique kled and thats all good. Arguably, Kled has the most fun kit for my playstyle, even more than Darius. Regarding your questions: 1) I like the ghouls, and finally they're clickable. I think their fair too both Yorick and his opponent. AI overall is good, But I think the ghouls / ultimate AVATAR should lock into yorick's current target. The ultimate is kinda meh because it just targets whoever the fk it wants. However If I'm on one target, I want to be able to tell my avatar to hit the same target. It will be more satisfying to Yorick players if they could control WHO the spirit hits. It would create more skilled plays. 2)Clutter is good, but I think her Ult blends in too well to the background. Try making it a brighter hue to make it stand out more. Ghouls are just right (color wise). 3) I found a bug regarding a sound on his emote. The control+3 emote on Pentakill skin Has yorick pulling out a guitar. However no sound plays. I know in the other Pentakill Skins (sona, morde, olaf) When they use their instruments there is some sort of tune. Idk if its intended or if its a bug, but as a user I expect some sort of audio when yorick pulls out his guitar, at least a note. 4) I feel his q is too strong. Idk though hes a pretty boring champion with realistically 1 offensive attack. I'll try him with some weird ass masteries and see if that breaks the game =)
Somewhat sad to hear that you find him boring, but different strokes for different folks. Not every character should be high octane like Kled or Yasuo. (Although I love watching them myself) The Maiden should try to hit what you are hitting if you are attacking a champion, I might want to try lifting the champion requirement and see if that makes it feel much more responsive Hm, the pentakill dance should have music to it, See if the issue continues after tomorrow.
: (**AI/Balance**) An issue not really with the AI of the minions, but the turret AI. Turret AI always prioritizes champion pets over minions, so whenever I leave the Maiden to push a lane by herself, she always gets targeted first and taken down by the turret before I can even get back to lane. For a similar reason, the ghouls are completely ineffective against inhibitor turrets; they die in a split second before they can even touch the turret, even faster than normal lane minions. I think at the very least, the Maiden should be considered a champion for purposes of turret AI, like Shaco's clone and Yorick's old ultimate. Doing so would allow her to actually contribute to pushing a turret, rather than dying quickly due to being focused down. Either that, or maybe the Maiden should back away from a turret when she no longer has minions to push with. So, to answer the third balance related question, I find the Maiden split to be mostly useless; she dies too easily to turrets and can't push them down because she gets focused and dies. Even splitting with the Maiden, I always feel like my ult is wasted and its only purpose is to tank turret shots for me.
The split is intended to be difficult to utilize, mainly because we did not want Yorick to become the mobile ZZrot portal (old) where you spam it on cooldown. The targeting interactions you pointed out are things we've thought necessary for the character's general balance, if we were wrong we might change it, but testing has proved the playing against experience to be terrible if it kills turrets on its own endlessly if the enemy does not respond.
: I wanted to make a full post about this, but don't know if anyone will see this. (it is related to the AI) - The Maiden (great design by the way i love her look) acts just as stupid as the Mist Walkers, isn't Yorick suposed to control her? As soon as you get near a lane and don't enter a fight or just finished one, she'll just run it down mindlessly when no champions are near and proceed to die to the tower, can she push a lane? Yes she can! Did I asked her to? No I did not. It would be much better in my opinion to have her heither be able to be controled by the player, the same way it used to be with old Yorick ult or at least (better option) upgrade her AI so that when there is nothing nearby she doesn't just run all the way to nexus giving Usain Bolt a round for his money. I understand that things are a certain way but, but it isn't fun when the **KEY PART OF YOUR UlTIMATE ABILITY** runs from you like a teenager would responsabilities, it is in fact quite infuriating. (Maybe she could have a similar AI to champion bots so that she doesn't get killed at first tower as you watch all mighty Maiden getting decimated as she takes turret shots to the face (don't think she has one but you get it...). Or a more inteligent pet, that follows Yorick when he gets to far away, and thank god she doesn't deliberately attack neutral monsters.) Yorick looks like he is the pet of his pets. This isn't the only problem I have with the rework but it is getting quite late and i must sleep now. To sum up what I think about the rework i will say this: from a spectator point of view it looks great but as a player it is quite dissapointing (taking into account i played a good amount of Yorick pre-rework), especially that god damn AI. I can see the concept and the idea but the execution is, in my opinion, lacking. I don't know how this will be recieved since when i voice my opinions I often get people jump to my throat maybe its because of the way i phrase it may make it look agressive, which is not the intention at all and I'm sorry if it sounds that way. I would like to elaborate more on my thoughts about the new Yorick, maybe tomorrow, who knows. EDIT: The rework is amazing don't get me wrong, I love the time and effort you guys put into this, but, it could be better in the gameplay department.
Hey thanks for the feedback. I understand some players having issues with the decision to not allow full control of Yorick's minions. While the Maiden going down a lane when she enters one will not change, I am planning to change behavior related to WHEN she does so. Example of she would not go down the lane unless she has a minion wave/Yorick in front of her so you would not see her walk into the tower solo and suicide into it, hopefully that would solve most of the issues you brought up.
: Yorick - Auto Attack Animation
This is unfortunately intended :( We need attack animations to have varying speed so the actual speedy champions feel speedy and the weighty ones slow. His animation is on par with other Juggernauts such as Darius and will likely not change
: 2 Yorick spells not working as should vs riven and pantheon
: Hey RiotSolcrushed, this is my current list, only including bugs and possible comfort changes. These are just based on my thoughts collected in one custom game, so don't feel like I hate Yorick, in fact, I really like him! But still I feel like these things could be improved: 1. Mist Walkers seem to have a strange movement pattern, they rather follow minions than Yorick. I know that this rarely makes a difference since you will fight an enemy champion in lane, but roaming with them is really hard. 2. Yoricks "Joke" animation seems to be bugged (visual only). 3. Yoricks "Awakening" can only be casted when near at least 3 graves, which ist intended. However you can cast the ability and then walk out of range, so that no walkers are actually summoned. 4. Also his "Last Rites" needs some sort of a CD inicator when being able to cast "Awakening". It's very well possible that you want to not use "Awakening" straight away because you want to freeze the lane or heal up with "Last Rites", and not being able to know when you can reset your auto attack feels quite uncomfortable. 5. Yoricks W rank up information implicates improvements of the ability when there are no changes made. To give an example, attempting to skill the ability a second time shows the following improvements: Cooldown 20 sec --> 18 sec ; **Health 2 --> 2** I know this is very nit-picky, and I would not even complain about it, just pointing it out. 6. I think there should be a maximum duration for ~~Ghouls~~ Mist Walkers, just my opinion though. 7. Similar to Malzahar, Mist Walkers should be able to dance when Yorick does :D 8. The Maiden of the Mist seems very uncontrollable, and I see the point of leaving her in a lane alone to create a push advantage while being able to fight 5v5 on the other site of the map. Still I feel like there should be ANY way to control her, since at times she will just randomly run into tower etc. 9. Also I had a bug with the Maiden where she would no longer summon Mist Walkers. I have no idea what caused this bug, but I definitely had no Mist Walkers and there where enough {{champion:104}} around her (Kappa). So that's my list, feel free to disaggree, discuss or explain, because I#m not sure what exact mechanics are meant to be intended.
Thanks for the reply! 1. They are intended to behave more like minions, and they will not attack Yorick's targets unless he designates it with E. This is to balance out their pvp threat level while being able to contribute at the pve level. (Live Yorick has this issue where the ghouls are too smart for the playing against experience, you don't have a good way of outsmarting them or thinning them out without taking losses) 2. We are aware of this! 3. Will fix! 4. The implementation for that is in the works (Intending for a ammo like background cd indicator to run) 5. Agreed it looks a bit strange, but also necessary because 2.5 is functionally the same as 3 in this model and we really don't want rank 2 to have 3 hp 6. NO 7. Haha I'll ask the animators 8. She will try to hit whatever Yorick is hitting, but her suiciding into turrets could be improved 9. Did she have 4 Walkers near her? An area can only have up to 4 Walkers
  Rioter Comments
: Looking for feedback on Poppy E-Q
Hey guys, pinging again to make sure. I haven't seen any reports of E-Q working strangely in after the Tuesday push. It's awesome if its a case of it working great so no one is reporting, but IF YOU RUN INTO ISSUES WITH THE E-Q ON THE PBE PLEASE write your feedback on the point.
  Rioter Comments
: Wall of text incoming, but only the part prior to the separator is truly important... I was gonna write my opinions on the rework as a long-time poppy main, but I feel like most of what I had to say was already said by others, so instead I'd like to simply have clarity over why I the rework was done that way and what we can expect of Poppy. Most of those questions will be formulated as what I expected from the rework and what I feel like the rework did. I'll go down starting with the most important ones, and go down until I can't find more. 1. Just to put a context to your answers, how would you describe old poppy and new poppy in a few sentences (nothing big, just 2-5 sentences each). 1. How set in stone is Poppy's rework release date to Live? 2. Once she goes live, can we hope for certain skills to be entirely changed in the first 1-3 months following release if she flops, or will we only be seeing number tweaks and other changes that keeps her mechanics the same? 3. How important was it for the rework to preserve the "beginner-friendly" aspect of Poppy? 4. I also kinda expected the rework to rid Poppy of her bugs, yet the E hasn't had any changes on it afaik and it still has the same functional issues that have been reported for 2+ years, were you guys not aware of the issues, or were you planning on fixing them during the week of testing? 5. How did you guys decide on the role Poppy was intended for (in this case it appears to be a solo lane/jungle bruiser->tank)? 5. How did you guys decide on what her power curve would look like (which appears to be very mid-game centric)? 7. I feel like one of Poppy's old issues was that she had a single playstyle : Go in and kill someone the stay in and kill more people. Why wasn't Poppy given more varied fighting tools? 8. New Poppy clearly counters some champions much more than others, and also strugles against certain champions much more than others. Has the design team's stance on "champion select wins" changed, where LoL's hardest counters should be in the form of Teemo vs Garen or Veigar vs Cassiopeia/Viktor and things like that. ---- Now, to give my impression on those questions : > Just to put a context to your answers, how would you describe old poppy and new poppy in a few sentences (nothing big, just 2-5 sentences each). I would've described old Poppy as a ~~ranged~~, melee, tanky dps, assassin, mage, ~~tank~~, support, jungler all wrapped up in one defective ~~man~~ yordle with massive spikes both early and late game (but non-negligible power dip mid game). She had the unique ability to remain resistant to burst without building massive amount of defenses, as well as being tanky with only massive amount of damage+LS. Otherwise, like quite a few other people, I would've considered her proud and determined. New Poppy looks to me like a massive mid-game Bruiser that later ends up working out as tank because she struggles to bruise people come late game. She has the ability to become very sturdy with her passives, as well as the ability (especially mid game) to 100-0 someone with her chain CC. I feel like she's very happy-go-lucky and is humble/has low self-esteem. > How set in stone is Poppy's rework release date to Live? I have the feeling that she's gonna get shoved to Live no watter what on december 8th, and that from there you guys will be much more reluctant to spend resources on her since she's on Live and changing mechanics is something you guys tend to keep to a minimum outside of reworks. My feelings may not be warranted, but I feel like that's exactly what occured with Graves where there were countless ways to realize that Graves was clearly overpowered on PBE, but he still got released with everyone else because it was the "marksmen rework" and whatsnot. > Once she goes live, can we hope for certain skills to be entirely changed in the first 1-3 months following release if she flops, or will we only be seeing number tweaks and other changes that keeps her mechanics the same? Once again, I am pessimistic about that topic... I won't hide it. I feel like the balance/rework teams has been shooting for novelty more than balance in the last 6 months or so. Not that you stopped caring about balance, but rather it feels that you are happy with "good enough" as long as it reinvigorates the game (which isn't always positive, like GP, Mordekaiser, Tryndamere, Yasuo, and Graves for instance). > How important was it for the rework to preserve the "beginner-friendly" aspect of Poppy? I feel like a lot of her mechanic either requires a lot of though (like realizing that W's passive is "you have 12% more eHP" and work just as well with little to no defense than it does with a lot of armor), or even some knowledge of the game itself (anti-dash mechanic that doesn't affect all dashes, like Malphite's ult, and affect some other move-blocks like Thresh's Lantern and Bard's Tunnel). Then you also have mechanically harder skills like a targeted dash paired with a wall stun, or a double-effect ultimate that move the target toward their fountain instead of the direction of the skill. > I also kinda expected the rework to rid Poppy of her bugs, yet the E hasn't had any changes on it afaik and it still has the same functional issues that have been reported for 2+ years, were you guys not aware of the issues, or were you planning on fixing them during the week of testing? The few I can find off the top of my head are : - attacks beign unresponsive after you stun someone. - getting stuck inside/behind the person you stun - bodyblocking the person you stun between you and the wall - collision detection being wonky at best - knocking someone over a small ledge or a corner (which means you succesfully used your *targeted* gap closer but didn't close the gap with your target) > How did you guys decide on the role Poppy was intended for (in this case it appears to be a solo lane/jungle tank)? Poppy used to be able to do just about anything except for being a pure tank (she was very lackluster at it because she had 1 bad hard CC), what made you guys decide to push her toward being a tank, especially since she doesn't have many more tools to be a tank... she has lower %health damage (since base armor is higher than base MR as well as half the damage being easily dodgeable), as well as no more damage amplification, and the big changes that helps her is a minuscule 40% slow and a skillshot stasis/knockback-to-safety. > How did you guys decide on what her power curve would look like (which appears to be very mid-game centric)? From my point of view, Poppy used to be very strong early game (level 1-4ish) and late game (2+ completed items). What made you guys decide to push her toward a mid-game oriented playstyle? Right now, she only deals physical damage, meaning that it's much easier for tanks to itemize against her, and physical penetration against squishies got basially removed. It's made even worse by the fact that rank 2-5 of W being nearly useless and her passive not scaling after level 13, which means that she's at her strongest by far at level 13. > I feel like one of Poppy's old issues was that she had a single playstyle : Go in and kill someone the stay in and kill more people. Why wasn't Poppy given more varied fighting tools? Previously, her combat cycle was pretty simple : Go in with E, Q when it's up, W as needed, and R when appropriate (before CC and/or burst, or early if you need the extra damage). Basically, her fights are mostly mathematical, instead of mechanical. Right now, her fights are even more mathematical, and the enemies have even more ways to outplay her (assuming they're not stuck in your chain CC). Right now, her combat cycle is very streamlined : Go in with E, Q when it's up, R when stun is over (if it's up), W when your CC expires (if the opponent has a dash). Her only skill that can realistically be useful in a non-aggresive fashion is her charged-up ultimate, as far as I'm concerned, and it's clearly situational (especially since it can be juked and has a pretty big delay in it). > New Poppy clearly counters some champions much more than others, and also strugles against certain champions much more than others. Has the design team's stance on "champion select wins" changed, where LoL's hardest counters should be in the form of Teemo vs Garen or Veigar vs Cassiopeia/Viktor and things like that. Old Poppy had by far the hardest counters, by being able to completely bully out of lane the likes of Rengar and Nasus, while having absolutely nothing to do against true-damage dealers and some ranged harassers (Kayle, Vlad, Teemo for instance). Now, you have a skill that is really strong against 30-40% of the roster, and fairly useless against 50%. Poppy is able to deny Rengar's initiation, he's able to stop someone from using Thresh's lantern, or knock him out of Bard's Portal, or compeltely screw over Zac's Elastic Slingshot. Meanwhile, her anti-dash mechanic isn't even really useful against Yasuo who will instantly dash to another target after being stopped once.
Dang I replied to the wrong thread, copying my responses over. 1. Old Poppy: Assassin-bruiser derived from Diplomatic Immunity working in a very unintended way. Outdated kit that had to be artificially held down due to the R. New Poppy: Full commitment to the armored Yordle fantasy (Lots of yordles have big weapons, she's the only one with armor) with great feats of strength. Offers unique outputs while retaining damage threat, but more conditionally 2. Probably next patch if nothing breaks 3. Entire changes to skills will probably only come in the form of another rework if we feel it is necessary 4. We didn't consider Poppy a beginner friendly champion at all 5. The E has actually undergone major rescripting, I've intentionally tried to keep most of the behavior the same as live while fixing obvious bugs. We are committed to continue to improve the feel of the spell even after release, so continued feedback will be appreciated. (p.s. the E missing if a champion flashes or dashes is not a bug, its the same way most of our targeted dashes work) 6. The assassin playstyle was only held up via Diplomatic Immunity, and when we tried a nerfed or conditional version it either felt very generic (Trynd ult etc.) or required the Poppy player to play more opportunistically than we liked. Ultimately, we felt that what we needed to retain on Poppy was the feeling that you could go headlong into a fight without worrying too much about enemies and being a tank was the best way to retain that. 7. Generally tanks/bruisers trend toward mid game power spikes by the nature of our item system. 8. I don't agree that Poppy's tools aren't varied and diverse. Sure she has a clear 'I win combo' but that is not an issue by itself, I favor designing champions where it is easy for players to understand what my optimal combo is. The conditional nature of her spells make it so actual fights are quite varied and interactive (at least so we think) 9. We've definitely backed off a bit from our old stance as we felt that it was causing our champion designs to become more homogenous than we liked. We still don't want to see 'hard counters' where champion picks literally win or lose the game.
: [Poppy] - Spellshields don't block her ultimate on long range
: Could I make the suggestion where, if Poppy's passive is up, she gets a range indicator, like with Rengar's passive, or when a champion has the Rapid Firecannon item? {{item:3094}} I feel like this can help with some visual clarity as to her attack range with her passive, especially a better indicator to tell when it's up or not. ~~EDIT: Also, I don't know if this is a problem with the item or Poppy, but with Sterrak's Gage equipped, it doesn't seem to be counting the bonus from it: It says it's giving me 29 extra attack, but the scalings on Q only show an extra +6 damage, and her Q should have a 65% AD Scaling right? I'm not sure if it's just a tooltip error, or if it's affecting the actual damage or not.~~ EDIT2: Alright it's apparently not a bug, I guess it doesn't count as Bonus AD for scaling purposes then. Didn't know that.
Hmm we tried this during development and it felt very noisy since this is something that is always up until used. (Compared to Rengar) We have specifically put 'build up' vfx and sound for this spell, and I THINK it should be enough when players learn what the cues are. Of course if we are proven wrong we would be happy to look for a more clear solution here. (Maybe circle range is the right call even though it is noisy)
: Poppy low health VO bug
Hey all, thanks for the bug report and sorry for that. This will be fixed in the next PBE update
: Okay, i've played her in a custom game versus bots. Here's what bothers me: 1. The E->Q Combo after knocking someone into the wall: It's REALLY hard to hit with Q when both you and the enemy champion are stuck on the same spot. I wouldn't know where to aim Q at 2. I had a hard time telling when my shield was ready to throw. In a fight, it's slightly confusing when poppy suddenly stops when you're about to do a Q+Autoattack Combo. 3. (As Valenten already mentioned, the repeating voice over lines when near 40%.) 4. (Probably an issue with the Bots, but the E Charge Makes the bots stop for 1.5 seconds even without hitting a wall) But overall, she's super fun and the ultimate is hilarious. Good work!
1. The Q has a hit radius around Poppy herself precisely for that reason (so you would still hit someone you stunned even if you aimed backwards). However you are right in that due to the abrupt movement in positioning aiming the Q precisely after the E is rather difficult. I'm not too sure how to resolve this, because the direction you would want to lay Q would differ each time. 2. There is a light (and sound) that concentrates on Poppy's buckler as it is to come online for this, tell me if it gets better with more playthroughs and you know what cues to look (and hear) for 3. BUG, will be fixed tomorrow 4. I'll look into that, thanks for the pointer!
: Looks amazing. However, I'm not sure I like her new ultimate (gotta play her first, so of course it's far from an actual opinion). It just feels a lot like it is very good when you're behind - but when you are strongly ahead or completely crush your enemy it leaves a lot to be desired: sure, you can wreck their positioning and all the little "get-togethers" they initiate. But when you'd win your fight regardless, it might be obsolete. The only other thing about it gnawing at me would be her, if I consider her kit, hard laning phase. If she was toplane and facing off against a nasus or a fiora, or any other strong duelist (on toplane), her ult could easily do more harm than good. It is a strong disengage, but the way you wrote it in the article makes one think it will ALWAYS push them towards their base. Does it? If so, it is a tool which can indeed turn every fight, but also, if a miscalculation happens, in a very bad way for your team. If it just pushes everyone hit in the cast direction by a set distance, it would give you way more utility.
Try casting the ult immediately! (As how you would insta release a Vi Q)
: This. I absolutely love the update and the VO, but I am guessing its a bug that she keeps spamming her lines when the passive for W is active.
Ugh I realized what would cause that, should be fixed by tomorrow, sorry for that!
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: Viktor bug with Lichbane and his Q.
yup this is a bug and should be fixed for tomorrow
: when i was using the lich bane the Q proc would activate doing the extra damage yet the lich bane wouldnt activate along with it ex. i cast Q and use the Q proc yet the lich bane proc still stayed there without dealing its damage with it
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: [Hopefully 4.5] Gragas Rework Feedback Thread
Sorry for being unable to respond in more detail to you guys, there are some great points made in here. I'm currently focusing on making his skins work and making sure his new animations and particles (yes, particles) are awesome. Also doing cleanup on W and E to make them less clunky. For example, Gragas will now auto acquire targets after using E differently depending on whether he has W buff. Try it out and tell me how you guys like it.
: [Hopefully 4.5] Gragas Rework Feedback Thread
Keep the feedback coming! They are very valuable. Also, if you found an item path that feels really good please share it!
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