: Can you really not just quickly deploy the fix? It's been done before has it not?
Unfortunately, there is nothing "quick" about a deploy, even to the PBE. We have a ton of bug reports to work through already so the extra day of testing was not worth the time and effort of the team that would need to do the build and deploy.
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: Intro bots broken, wouldn't come out of base... lol
: I ran the intro map with Zac a hero I am unfamiliar with. The following is a list of suggestions for improvement. 1. No guidance on the role of selected character. Info such as "Play Zac like a tank, buy hit point items or armor" 2. Gear appeared to be optional. While on Zac I bought Boots of Swiftness and Spirit of the Spectral Wraith. 3. I played Zac in the jungle. I only encountered 3 notices: drink this pot, health is low you can recall by pressing b, and Purchase items on the platform. It appears that if a newbie wanders into the jungle there's no guidance of any sort. The helper doesn't recognize and guide them back to path nor does the helper offer guidance with the jungle bosses. I offer the following suggestions: 1. Please include a jungle guide, even if its basic. 2. I would like to see some guidance on the roles (enough to identify differences with brief descriptive phrase that could be supported by the suggested item list if they look) I recall playing recently with a level 30 that didn't know how to use her heals on another player. 3. I believe that the Introbots are a bit too easy. In the current state it almost seemed impossible to die to the Introbots, I'm going to try harder.
Hey DaddyJohns, Recommended items were broken when you tried Intro Bots previously. Since today's PBE patch they've been fixed, and you should now see much more guidance on what and how to build on Zac when you open the item shop. We do not currently have any jungling-focused quests or guidance because jungling is a pretty advanced concept for someone in their first few games. Something like that deserves being taught, but Intro Bots is not the place. I promise you that it is not impossible for new players to die to Intro Bots. They are definitely easy, but we erred on the side of too easy in this case. If a new player is struggling with Intro Bots, there's nowhere else for them to go to learn. However if they find Intro Bots too easy they can easily go try Beginner or Intermediate bots, or hop to PvP once they hit level 3.
: Initial reaction... I played through the mode once as {{champion:266}} ... I wrecked face. I then realized I was going about the mode all wrong and tried channeling my inner-newbie. I played again and took {{champion:22}} (generally considered a beginner champ) to bot lane as ADC. I got some helpful quests like "Stay Behind Your Minions", "Use a potion", and "Level up Volley". Things I noticed lacking though... 1. I totally abused my mana and was completely oom for several minutes in lane. No quest. 2. I ended up low on health and went B, which I assume is why I didn't get the "Go B" quest at that point. After going b, I went back into lane, drained my mana again, let my health get down to less than 1/4, and stayed in lane for over 5 minutes... no quest to get out of there. This one bothers me the most as probably the biggest cause for newbies dying at a rate of yaw is not knowing when to get out of a situation and go B. 3. Some sort of role-defined quests would be good. Whether giving the support a "protect your buddy" quest or giving the ADC a "Do some damage!" quest, I think there should be something to help teach the player a little bit about the traditional role for each champ. I would even go so far as to say it should start in champ select by recommending what role(s) still need filled for the team to be well rounded, perhaps by "banning champs that traditionally fill the roles already taken.* That's all for now! *For the love of Karthus, please don't spam this thread with "meta-sheep" hatred. I love playing off-meta (viva la Supports {{champion:75}} and {{champion:112}} ), but there's no way I would understand how to do that without first having learned how to play them traditionally.
Hello! Thanks for your thorough feedback. Channeling your inner-newbie is the right way to go if you're trying to "really" experience Intro Bots. What we've learned on our team is that it's REALLY, really hard to actually play like someone who has never played League before (or who is in their first couple games) because so much that you do becomes muscle memory. 1. You're right that we didn't address mana in the best way. This one is a little tricky and we could have definitely done something like increased passive mana regen so that players could continue to cast spells, but overall it was something that didn't happen so often as to cause a problem for the new players we had try out the mode, and gave them a learning opportunity to understand mana and resourcs. 2. I agree that you probably should have gotten the "B to recall" quest in the case you described. The quest system has a lot of other things in mind, such as how recently you got another quest, how late in the game it is, where you are on the map, etc, so it's not always going to be right on the money, but we're okay with that. What we are trying to do is help you do the right things from time to time, but also give you freedom to fool around and figure it out yourself once you've done it before. And to help keep new players from dying - which you're right, they die a lot in Beginner bots right now - we've got some behind-the-scenes damage reduction. 3. A new player isn't thinking about roles or meta at this stage and we think that's fine. Picking a champion purely based on how cool they look or whether their abilities sound interesting is a fun way to play, and until you get into PvP against more experienced players, meta and strategy are a non-issue. Roles are a good example of something that could potentially be taught outside the game through a video or guide.
: So I tried it out. Was wondering if the "kill a minion" quest was intentionally added during the second minion wave? Also, was wondering if there was a quest that tells you to back to buy at a certain gold amount? Off topic: what's the difference between this, the tutorial, and tutorial bots (the Soraka Bot is truly caring)? Is there supposed to be a clear cut difference in the learning experience? I feel like the tutorial bots teaches you a lot more but doesn't analytically tell you why you should do things strategy wise. Side Note: I think explanations for tips should be addressed during these tutorials. Not sure if analytical advice would be too much for new players; such as explaining why you should stay behind your minions strategically so you don't receive damage/ enemy minion aggro, but it's just a thought. If this doesn't work out maybe tutorial videos might be the best way to teach new players similar to how Smite explains everything in a very detailed form. Sure you can't teach them mechanics for each champ but you learn lots of things from watching an informational video than from playing.
Thanks for your feedback! The "kill a minion" quest is triggered if players are not using abilities. It is more about encouraging players to use spells and have fun with their champion than it is about farming. As far as going deeper into explanations or strategies goes - we have to trust that new players are smart enough to pick things up from context, and they almost always are. You just need to give them the right opportunity to learn. For example, when it comes to taking minion damage, we could easily go in the direction of whacking them over the head with the info. In fact, Battle Training does just that ("Stay behind your minions!!!"). However we see just as good results if we calmly inform a player that they're taking minion damage and warn them to move back, while quietly making sure they have plenty of time to react (by providing behind-the-scenes tankiness). After a few times interacting with this, they intuitively learn that minions aggro you when you get close and they do a lot of damage, without needing to be told. This approach of providing information plus giving players time to react is a great way for people to learn at their own pace, not be annoyed, and learn from context instead of being told word-for-word what to do. Videos and offline tutorials definitely have their place, but watching videos is just not nearly as fun as playing, not to mention learning through doing is much more effective for most people than learning through reading or observing. If we can put you in the driver's seat and combine playing with learning, we will choose to do that every time.
: I believe that the intro bots were supposed to replace the beginner bots. However, when picking a game mode the two options are intro and beginner. Is beginner supposed to say intermediate?
Intro bots is in addition to the Beginner and Intermediate queues. All three will be available when this mode goes live.
: For your purposes of introducing new family members, probably the biggest difference is that this is a normal queue and so you can play alongside those new players.
The mode should overall also be more helpful and less frustrating than if they played a CoOp vs AI Beginner game (or PvP game) today.
: Not sure if it's a problem with some champions or what, but there were no recommended items for lissandra in this mode. Is that because there is only a select few champs to play in this? (i.e. Garen, Ashe, etc) or is it a bug?
This is a bug! We'll have it fixed ASAP. Intro Bots provides a custom item page for all players that you'll be able to see when this is resolved. Sorry about that!
: Can we have Intro Doom Bots?
Isn't that what the one bomb bots are for? ;)
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