: I've noticed some people mentioning that q does not always go off when the button is pressed, and I think I've discovered a way to reproduce this fairly reliably. Normally if you are constantly issuing move orders (either by mashing right click or holding it down) and then hit q you will stop moving and channel q normally. However, if you hit e and then immediately q while simultaneously holding down the move command the q will not begin to cast (about 80 percent of the time) and you will simply continue moving after you finish your e animation. Since you can normally q immediately after finishing e, and q while issuing move commands I assume this is a bug and I think there is no reason movement should interfere with using two skills in short succession but not with each skill individually.
This is super helpful, I'll try this out today and see if we can get a fix for it.
: hi first off all i think the new Sion is really cool. great job done! But here are some things i found: -beeing in his passive and casting the Q while dying locks my normal Q skill for the rest of the game. i wasn't able to cast it once -i think a traditional skin would really make sense due to the heavy changes -i also think his base health is quite to low -he really has to get faster while beeing in passive. enemies just run away and you can't land a single hit before dying .... but as allready said all in all it is great work i love it :) (btw sorry for my bad english)
Were you casting the normal (charge cone) Q before you died? or were you casting the Q (speed boost) in the passive mode that casued that bug?
: Twice now when playing a custom game as Sion, the 'Attempting to Reconnect' sign came up. To recreate: 1. Start a *Custom Game* on *Summoner's Rift Update* 2. Choose *9 Beginner Bots* in the other roles. 3. Enter *Champion Select* and pick *Sion Classic Skin* 4. Play game and wait. The first time was after 20 minutes, the second only 17 minutes.
We think this was a global issue on the PBE build. Should be fixed in the next PBE update.
: I hope this piece of feedback is heard and Riot doesn't just ignore it like they did with the feedback I gave for the Soraka rework, otherwise I'm just not going to give feedback anymore. The new Sion is awesome. He can go pretty much everywhere except ADC. Let's break it down: **Abilities:** * **Passive: Glory In Death** This passive could be awesome in some situations, but it's a bit too easy to avoid even when using the MS boost. I'd give it a bit more MS or less decay, but that might make him OP. I don't think it's necessary for him to have this passive IMO. I feel like his kit is good enough without it. * **Q: Decimating Smash** This ability is a really good concept, and it has a lot of different uses, like harassing you opponent, waveclearing, using it after your ult for a long stun, protecting your ADC by zoning the enemies, or as a follow up for something like Sejuani's ult. Nothing to say about this. The enemy can cancel it so you can't use it whenever you want. It has a decent amount of counterplay for it's power. * **W: Soul Furnace** Same old good Sion's shield and passive. If you build tank, this ability still deals a lot of damage. The passive part is awesome but I feel like it shouldn't be tied to his W, as I often feel obligated to get W early to not waste that passive, even if I don't need the shield. * **E: Roar of the Slayer** This skill is so good. You use it on a minion and it goes towards your enemy, dealing a TON of damage. This is what you max first and it's your main harass tool. The tooltip should state the damage of the other enemies instead of just saying 50% more. It's better than having to calculate it every time, even though it's really easy to do 50% more. It can also be used on an enemy champion to reduce their armor 20% (which is huge). * **R: Unstoppable Onslaught** Beast ult, but very hard to use properly at max range. Using it at max range is really risky if you don't aim it properly or the enemy sees you.The camera has a lot of potential but I'm going to wait until it gets fixed to say if I like it or not. **Build paths:** This is where things start to be awesome for Sion. I'd say he has 3 ways to build him: * **Full tank:** This is the unkillable peeling machine route. Spirit of the ancient golem works wonders with his passive, and he can still deal quite a bit of damage with his W, as well as stun people with his Q and R and slow and reduce armor with his E. I think he needs a bit more base damage on his W to punish people for not breaking it, but overall he's pretty good. * **Bruiser:** This is the unkillable juggernaut route. He has a built-in armor reduction on his E, so he can deal quite a lot of damage with his autos and Q. Unfortunately you are really easy to kite, so you have to at least buy some defensive items to make up for that. The difference in damage between this route and the full tank one is not that much. * **AP Sion:** He can't build AP with it's current scalings, but I think it's awesome that you still retained his AP capabilities. You changed his kit in such a way that it allows this build to coexist with the other builds. There is no spell you don't want to use as AP Sion, and you still have all the counterplay of AD Sion, so it's even better than live AP Sion in terms of game health, but his AP scalings don't allow this to happen. He needs A LOT more AP ratio on his shield and a bit more on his E to make this route a possibility. PLEASE, buff his ratios. Continues...
Great analysis. You seem to be understanding and using the kit very well. We're still tuning some numbers, so I'll take your feedback into consideration as we go. Thanks for taking the time to really deep dive on the PBE.
: Can we get a stack counter for the W passive that we can see the same way you see Flare counters or thresh souls so we don't have to hover over the W to see how much bonus health we have?
You can see how much health you have stacked in the W tooltip (mouse over W). PS - BONUS: you can see how much value the W shield has remaining in its buff icon!
: Hey, I doubt this is a priority at the moment, however on the PBE client, all of Sion's abilities are still from pre-rework. [](http://i.imgur.com/x7BC3sk.jpg)
This should be fixed today or tomorrow.
: Alright! About time Sion gets some love! First off, weird bug where match history isn't showing any game with Sion except for my first game that crashed. Oh well. Passive: Didn't get a chance to use in first game, second time used, feels kinda clunky, his low mobility usually means that noone is even close to me so I end up just beating on some nearby minions for a sec or two to try and get another cs. Add a ms buff pls? Q- Holy Damage! I love how much it does and I love that right now you can't see it coming when the Sion is in bush. When in Lane, very easy to avoid as long as you aren't CC'd or out of position. Make Aimable while casting maybe? I like high risk/high reward, but never hitting is a little bit too risk for not enough reward. W- Mwahahahahhaha! I love the shield, and when I stacked health, it got decent size, but def needs a buff. Even with 6 warmogs, full HP per level runes plus max health quints/seals, the shield only got to around 700-800, which while still huge, didn't transition into a huge burst when it went pop. Also, the shield dies fast when you are right in the middle of everyone and they are focusing you. Maybe just a wee bit better base scaling and keep the hp scaling as is? E- Felt really good to land this and really lay into someone. This is also more "fun" than the creepy gaze of death, but still leads to just as much death. R- As everyone has said, the camera is buggier than the Amazon Rain Forest right now, so I will leave it alone, but I like the concept and am hoping that when the camera is fixed, it will be able to be truly tested to see how awesome it really is. All in all, a great rework for the man who refuses to die, and I can't wait for him to go live.
Thanks for the feedback, Did you try using any of your abilities while in the passive mode? He has a special ability that will give him a surge in movement speed (75% decaying over 2 seconds).
: I can't help but notice that Sion's base hp and scaling feels pitifully low (He actually has a lower stats than Mini Gnar), presumably to compensate for his retaining the potential for infinite health gain. He feels a little like Thresh in that he has infinite scaling but is actually stuck playing catch-up with other champions for most of the game. I'm not asking for a return to old Sion's stats, but he used to have 403 (+104) and now he only has 420 (+60) - 792 less health/level by level 18. That means that new Sion needs as much as 388 CS just to match his old maximum health. Passives like Veigar's, Nasus' Q stacks and Sion's old Enrage feel good because you know that you're constantly accruing more power - that you start with competitive stats and keep growing stronger as the game goes on. New Sion's W passive lacks that same feel because it asks you to attain 22 CS/level just to keep up with his old health/level growth. That's hardly an unreasonable figure in the grand scheme of things, early levels aside, but it really neuters the overall feeling of the skill as a cool element of the character. You can't really feel like you're constantly growing more and more resilient with each kill if that bonus health is serving to shore up your base stats for large portions of the game. Perhaps I'm off-base on this one, as I'm not seeing it as a focus for comments, but it really leapt out at me when a Sunfire Cape and around 300 CS only got me to about 2.6k health at level 18. Current Sion would exceed that with the Sunfire Cape alone.
It is definitely low - in order to make room for both infinite HP scaling and a powerful Max HP ratio on his shield. With all things combined he is on par with nautilus/rammus in terms of tankiness.
: It's frustrating how Sion's Q is visible when hiding in a bush, being able to launch a surprise attack would add a lot to his match ups, particularly in the top lane.
This is definitely something new compared to older champions like Nunu. We wanted to keep it this way for gameplay clarity on the Q and we gave Sion power in other places to compensate. Hopefully he has a strong kit that opponents can clearly react to and play around.
: The warmonger skin needs a re-color, once again, you focus too much on the basic model that it ends up looking better than all of his skins in a rework, here's what a thoughtful person posted on Reddit about, specifically the warmonger skin, i hope you look at this, if not, then whatever, the skin should look more like this. Original post is (http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2hgv24/new_warmonger_sion_skin_changes/)
We're seeing a lot of this request, and I think we can make some changes to the warmonger skin before he goes live. Thanks!
: Alright so I've played around with him and for the most part he's super cool. The one huge issue I have is the camera shift/lock when using his ult. It's absolutely HORRIBLE, specifically because the camera doesn't reshift after your charge ends, so you don't really see the moment of impact and have to scramble to make sense of where you are and what's going on in the seconds after. It just feels really really crappy. Make the transition smoother rather than instant and maybe focus the camera a bit more on Sion so we can actually SEE HIM CHARGING, not just a big line.
Working on smoothing out those transitions over the next few days. New feature, so its still a bit rough around the edges.
: Smart-casting here as well. 1. I noticed that by when hitting Q sometimes my Sion would do nothing. I was not capable of using the ability until I landed another ability. I'm not sure at all what causes this bug, but I was capable of fixing it by using Sion's W or E on jungle monsters. 2. I personally felt that due to the percent max health scaling of the shield it actually felt very solid. It was how ever the first ability I would max in an attempt to increase the damage potential from its explosion against both jungle monsters and opposing tanky lane opponents. 3. From my understanding the of the ability; Sion avoids unity collision with minions but should deal damage to them as he passes by before stopping and dealing AoE damage at the end of his run, upon manual stop, or after collision with an enemy champion or a wall. I had the same issue however where I simply could move freely through enemy minions without dealing any damage. 4. I disagree with the need for a refund mechanic. The abilities cool down, although long early on drops tremendously per level and would have the potential to be abused it the player have a say in the ability to get a refund such as stopping early by hitting a wall.
Thanks for these bug reports, will definitely look into.
: I did a custom on the new SR with no major issues besides the fact Sion wasn't making any sounds. Second game was a Co-op and we had a Sion jungle. He was level 3 and about to start wolves when the game crashed.
Sounds should be fixed in tomorrow's pbe
: I was wondering if you could give Sion's Q the same mechanics of Vi's Q. At least give him the aspect of being able to walk around still while revving up the Sion Q. Just a thought that would probably seem nice. Edit: Also, it just seems a little ineffective while having to stay still to get the knockup off if you're happening to get a gank off anywhere.
We tried this for a time, and it made the Q much easier to hit for sure. So much so that we had to make the impact of the spell (damage and cc) much worse. The high risk/high reward of the immobile Q felt like a much more satisfying skill.
: I played Sion on the updated summoner's rift with unlocked camera. Using his ulti will screw up the camera, after like 1 second while it works fine it will lock behind Sion making it very hard, if not impossible, to properly use the skill.
Ok, will look into this. We are using some new camera tech for the ult and there are definitely a few bugs to work out still before he goes live.
: **Sion Game-Crashing Bug** Jungle Sion, was taking Red buff and used my E on it. The buff flew through the wall, then walked directly through the wall back to me, and everyone disconected with the game ending right there. Also, while his W Shield is active, it's tooltip is incorrect. Edit: The red buff went through the thicker part of the wall towards the wraith/river intersection. I believe it landed inside the wall instead of behind it, which is why it just directly walked back through it and ended the game. Edit2: Just crashed again when Eing a minion top lane that eventually hit a wall. Not 100% positive if it was because of me this time, but both crashes coincidentally happened after I E'd a monster into/through a wall. Edit3: Crashed a 3rd time before I had E, and enemy sion was in passive-dead mode. May not be Sion crashing it afterall. Leblanc and Wukong have been in every game however.
: Playing him now, he seems pretty fun. What was the thought process and design behind his new E?
The E is both a setup for big Q's (armor shred and slow) and a poke tool when you're around minion waves with the extended range.
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: Howdy there: I've tried over and over to like Cassiopeia: I bought her and her Mythic skin the first time the skin went on sale (cuz I love the skin and hate her default hat thing), but I'd never been able to play her to the usefulness of my Anivia or Orianna or Syndra (the other 100-difficulty champions, all of whom I do fine with). I always felt like Cass just wasn't strong enough to make up for her increased difficulty. This looks like it changes that a lot. Thank you for these changes: it really does look like you're positioning Cass as the amazing sustained-damage APC that I've always wanted her to be. A quick question, though: Does her Twin Fang now scale with CDR? I've never had trouble keeping people poisoned with just Chalice for CDR, and on live Twin Fang gets reset down to flat .5 seconds, regardless of CDR. If that is still so, I feel like the CDR is going to feel like a wasted stat. Her Q poisons don't stack (I think), so it doesn't actually give her any more damage than before. As a damage-focused APC, I just feel like the CDR could be replaced with something more damage-focused. And about the visuals: I love what you've done with all of the skins EXCEPT FOR HER FACE. I own Mythic and DO NOT APPROVE of you taking away her smooth face. Cass is supposed to be a seductive character (or at least was until being turned into a Naga), and that sharp face she had in her default skin was part of the reason that I disliked it so: it doesn't jive, and honestly I thought it was hideous. Now you've gone and put that same face on Mythic, and I just have to beg you to please reconsider. The rest of the TU is fine, but I would definitely prefer if you'd take the face the other way: give the default the rounder face of the skins instead of the skins the sharper face of the default. Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback on the skins/faces. I'll pass this along to the character artists and see what they think.
: Just a friendly nitpick! Crystal Poison, if that idea ends up surviving iteration, should more appropriately be called Crystal Venom. Poisonous things are harmful if you ingest them but otherwise don't care much (such as mushrooms). Venomous things actively try to inject you in order to kill you or make their escape (such as scorpions!)
: That's why I worded it in the way I did and asked for an explanation. He just said about it creating "really long hard CC chains" which plenty of champs can do. If you can't be precise on what you mean then why bother saying things. We've been hearing the run-around for months now.
If we allowed him to chain his 1.75s ult into a 1s stun it would allow for a 2.75s hard cc with displacement. This by itself isn't completely out of the question, but with a hard CC of that power, the character would not really have room to do much else. We think it would be better to allow him to have a powerful ult, but not one that completely takes over the power budget of his entire kit. It's a common (and very valid) complaint that Skarner is only valuable for his ult, and we definitely don't want to pull more power from his base pattern and push it into the ult.
: Glad to hear it. One more follow-up to that. Can Skarner still Q during his ult?
: Does Skarner gain the 6 second cooldown if this is the case?
The stun cooldown is not applied in this case.
: > Will the new "3 stacks for Stun" pattern dominate Skarner's flow now? That's going to considerably change the feel for the champion than the heavily specialized-movespeed-champ "I make myself faster and you slower and attack while moving" feel he's had since day1. Back in Season2, there was always some background noise of "champion homogenization!" and I never thought I'd join it, but I really don't want to see 'all bruisers collapsing upon a single balance point'. At the very least, How about replacing the stun with a micro-duration super-slow? Like 99% Slow that fades off over 0.5s or something? Doing this could allow him to apply it more often, and try to interweave it with his other slow. (A 'sine' pattern of heavyslow/lightslow would still offer more counterplay than his previous moderate-to-heavy-slow-constantly) With the new (imho inappropriate-for-this-champ) passive, will his damage types still come out a nice balanced 50%/50% mix? That's one thing that most people forget about the 'bruiser' group as a whole, and most people stack one damage over the other anyway, but what they generally lack in "IE+LW" or "Cap n' Staff" they make up in available opportunity and base damages to deal non-insignificant quantities of either damage type. Even Lee Sin often maxes E first, and countless people gloss over the significance of this as he rushes a Brutalizer for dem Qs+AAs. Self-quoting to more appropriate thread. Also in addition; I do have to say I like the consuming-stacks for ult damage, it gives Skarner a RESOURCE he can SPEND for EITHER damage or utility. If your ult isn't up, your utility won't be good unless you proc the stun, but Skarner doesn't think he needs a stun+sting he can go with the BIGGEST stinger. That's going to feel *good*. Still worried a bit about his versatility though. Will kit let him pick between high-AS/MS bruiser-that-got-way-too-fed-early-game-and-is-now-snowballing, vs. some-AoE-dmg tanky-stinger? Do his ratios need to be nerfed as hard as his base values do to account for the stun?
It does change his feel somewhat in that he now has a very tangible goal that he is shooting for in a gank/skirmish or any duel. Reaching the stun will often secure kills or turn a fight. At the same time, the Q changes (movement speed per stack) actually make him feel much more like his old self. If I start Qing on a target, I'm going to stick to them pretty well. AD bruiser builds are still viable with his high base AD, but generally he will take slightly longer to kill enemies but have much better time sticking and CCing.
: Love the changes, the only thing I am worried about is that Skarner might not do enough damage now. Would it be possible to increase the ratio and base damages just a bit, to something like: Physical Damage: 20/35/50/65/80 + 0.6 AD Magic Damage: 20/40/60/80/100 + 0.2 AP
The great thing is, that if he is only deficient in damage numbers that is a very easy fix. The mechanics changes here (more cc and stickiness) are the main focus to get right. We will definitely keep an eye on him and make adjustments to his overall dps after more testing.
: His ult consuming crystal poison stacks is pretty counter intuitive. You want to build the stacks in order to get the bonus damage, but you don't want to waste the stacks because you want to stun. Additionally, this will injure his clear speed, meaning he'll be too weak to be considered viable until jungle changes allow tanks to see proper play. Otherwise the kit looks fine to me.
When we didn't have the ult consuming the passive stacks we were seeing Ult into follow up passive stun pretty much every time. This was creating really long hard CC chains beyond the duration that we typically allow. With this in mind, we compensate him if he uses an ult on a target with stacks of the passive by adding additional damage per stack.
: Does proccing the stun on skarner's passive consume the current stacks of crystal poison? Also, how long do the stacks of crystal poison last?
It does, he will have to stack it up again for the next stun on the same target. The stacks last for 5 seconds right now.
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