: Dark Harvest visual bug in Collection -> Runes tab
Great spot! This is expected as the new Dark Harvest hasn't overridden the old one (the old one is linked to that icon/image on the domination shape). When we're happy with new Dark Harvest, we'll override the old one and this issue shouldn't occur.
: Dark Harvest+smite interaction
I think this is a bug with Chilling Smite. DH is told to ignore 'proc' damage (such as Cinderhulk passive damage), and Chilling Smite is probable coded as a proc. Will be changing this soon. Thanks for the report.
: Dark Harvest Bug - Dark Harvest gains stacks from most champion clones timing out.
Thank you for raising this issue! It's certainly a bug and will be fixed soon.
: When destroying a ward you will be disconnected, this happened 3 times with the ward of the jax bot (practice tool). even without the zombie ward rune this ghost poro changes looks good , you can still use your ward within 1 second before it is replaced by the poro , and the zombie ward becomes effective in vision games edit: after some tests, this bug only occurs when the sion destroys the ward , I do not know if it happens with any other champion, but I've already used bard, aatrox and nasus (Q) edit 2: sion cannot use zombie ward :D , but all other champions can use this rune
A follow-up; we've fixed this and another crash causing bug with Zombie Ward. Thanks for your help!
: Now that ghost poro will have a cd on it, can you assure us that the bug of him detecting an ennemy while there is no one will never come back? It was pretty annoying to use the rune only for it to activate for no reason, now that there is a cd on it, it could be even worste in case you need some contexte, here is an old vid of the bug (you hear the ping sound and the poro vanish before entering new bush so it's not the "switch poro form bush" mechanic, just him procing for no reason) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rxrux58cxI&feature=youtu.be As i don't use it anymore on 3v3 it's a long time since i spotted that bug but, as it wasn't mentionned in any patchnote bugfix section since that time, I guess the problem is still there hidding somewhere
I believe I have fixed this bug already. The poro doesn't think it's in the brush for some reason (which it checks every 2 seconds).
: The general effect of the new versions of Zombie Ward and Ghost Poro looks pretty cool. What I dislike is the fact that there's offensive stats or effects tacked onto the runes **again**. A common feeling is already that League has too much damage, and these rune overhauls want to add even more?
The vast majority of players who pick something from the vision slot pick Eyeball Collection, which means that damage is already featuring in your games. If an enemy now picks Zombie Ward or Ghost Poro once in a while, then it should mean less damage against you in your games (but more vision for them!)
: Hi! Thanks for looking into these runes, I'm a main jungler and support and i've always been a fan of the vision game and of these two runes in particular. But I want to share a concern about ghost poro: since the poro gives stats as long as it's not discovered by opponents, I fear this version will encourage players to put the poro into brushes that are less frequently used (the one next to the inner tower in bot and top lane comes to my mind), which would be kinda playing against it's value as a vision tool in favor of its value as a stat-granting tool. I'm aware this will definitely not be a game breaking thing, but do you think this could happen, and would you consider it a problem? as always, thanks for sharing and communicating with us :)
Firstly, if you can get your Poro into that brush without being spotted by the tower or minions in lane, good on you! Secondly, the strongest component of Ghost Poro is the free, repeatable vision it provides. If you're choosing to give this up for stats, that's certainly your choice, but it's not one I'd personally make. :)
: >As 3/4 of players in the vision slot are currently picking Eyeball Collector, the largest source of damage in the slot is already your games. We want players to feel better about picking one of the options with more vision tied to them which ultimately deal less damage, not more. but...why not just rework eyes to be something else then? Everyone picks eyes for the free damage so your solution instead of removing that free damage and placing a new effect (like maybe improved ward cap limit or maybe dewarding grants you bonus gold or maybe every X minutes you get a FREE pink ward in place of your normal ward) but rather than that you just toss more damage onto the other options to make people consider them? You dont think thats taking the easy way out? as someone who loves playing assassins and was ultra hype about runes reforged only to realize that for a entire nother year I would be a slave to Electrocute+as much penetration/AD and AP you have now idea how frustrating it was to see this. also I agree new system is MUCH better than old system and I want it to stay BUT I want like half of it to be removed. Anything that just nonsensically adds damage for the SAKE of having more damage. When fights are decided by who lands the first punch the game becomes FAR less enjoyable. I CANNOT enjoy the nuances of intricacies of champions kit if he just kills me in the same 0.5s that I saw him. Seriously.. Scorch,Cheap Shot,Aery,Electrocute,Comet,Overcharger,absolute. And then all the additional damage on other runes which already give a powerful effect and dont NEED the extra damage to be good(Predator,Aftershock,Waterwalking,Free AD from Conq and dmg Press the Attack proc) Some Runes I really like. Like how Transcedence opens up tons of new ways to build or how Font opens up Ardents/Chalice as viable options on tanky supports or even something as crazy as Rylais support singed (which I totally have a webm of btw ) Nullifying Orb + Hexdrinker rush antimage Corki mid? freaking sweet! that kinda stuff is AWESOME! You actually feel like this system is impacting your gameplay in a meaningful way and I LOVE getting to theorycraft and just go full Mel/Vorthos with the system. THAT is what I felt like runes reforged shoulda been about. Press the Attack, Wits End,Abyssal Mask Warwick teaming up with Demolish Mordekaiser to make magic happen. but you know what? I dont get to enjoy that kinda stuff without effectively handicapping myself because the runes that just make your character outright STRONGER with no drawbacks are just way too strong to pass up Every other game its the same thing.... Electrocute Sudden Impact Eye Collection every.single.game. on almost every single assassin. How many fighters now are a slave to Conqueror because 30+ AD is just too damn good? how many ADC are slave to PtA even when its so obvious Lethal Tempo is alluring as hell for most of them? and yet after so many months of this I have YET to hear any news from Riot about changes until now that was..... and Imagine my excitement when I hear Work is finally getting done to this domination slot and then the ensuring sanity eclipse when I see by far the BIGGEST conceptual design problem with the tree(and runes in general) is not only getting ignored but amplified! also as a side note I hate to be a "nuh-uh!" guy but 3 damage is actually bigger than you think especially considering itll scale with levels and will quickly go from 3 to 6 in the span of a few minutes. Its the difference between being able to last hit under tower or not being able to (Ever played Twisted Fate or Sona solo lane?). I personally dont think early stats like that are anything to scoff at but I get it ( on a side note I already have this plan of just at the start of the game gunning it to the enemy side and hiding it in the base brush near the transparent quick-leave gates to enjoy my bonus for the rest of the early game). anyways thanks for reading my rant post. I know balance is subjective and you guys have a hard enough time as is especially with all the conflicting desires and ideals but I really just want you to see things my way and hopefully open your eyes to a problem that might have previously been unseen. I really.. REALLY R E A L L Y do not like the idea of putting anymore damage into runes than there already is even if that damage might be placebo (everyone took Eye collection so now you can take eye collection without taking eye collection!). oh yeah.If poro gives the same stats as eyes anyways doesn't that mean you are eventually gonna have to rework eyes ANYWAYS? 20 AD SOMETIMES(and a ward) vs 20 AD ALL THE TIME is pretty lame decision to make and not thought provoking at all. I feel one of these runes is just outright gonna decommission the other because they both give the same thing except one is a greed driven gamble and if you know anything about competitive gaming people NEVER go for gambles over assured when they want to win.
This is another great post but it's too late for me to respond right now. I just want to leave you with one thing: Ghost Poro gives 20 Adaptive (which is 12AD) and Eyeball Collector gives up to 30 adaptive (which is 20AD), so your final paragraph isn't as clear cut as you made out.
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Rovient,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=zW5P08zu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-03T21:58:47.568+0000) > > All great feedback here btw, but just wanted to call this out specifically as an accidental tooltip change. No in-game effect has been pushed to PBE nor are there any plans to do so. Ah, OK. Thanks for the clarification. Something else I wanted to also add on the new Ghost Poro is that this actually seems maybe even too good on JG. I haven't played with it but I'd probably take it over the others. It allows me to defend against opposite side invades while also being aggressive myself. This would probably make early game JGs even more attractive too since they already win duels but will now do so with more safety (if you win a duel convincingly and quickly enough, collapses matter less) and vision. It might sound better on paper than it is and the old Ghost Poro was getting basically no use (for good reason) so it definitely merited attention. I just hope that the more late game Eyeball Collection will remain a decent option in the JG. Anyway, I can't wait to test this. :)
Very good points, but, remember that Ghost Poro's damage is not guaranteed. If your team falls behind and you are unable to press into the enemy side of the map you will not receive any bonus stats, whereas Eyeball Collection will continue to stack up in all but the worst stomps. It's a risk you'll need to evaluate in Champ select.
: When destroying a ward you will be disconnected, this happened 3 times with the ward of the jax bot (practice tool). even without the zombie ward rune this ghost poro changes looks good , you can still use your ward within 1 second before it is replaced by the poro , and the zombie ward becomes effective in vision games edit: after some tests, this bug only occurs when the sion destroys the ward , I do not know if it happens with any other champion, but I've already used bard, aatrox and nasus (Q) edit 2: sion cannot use zombie ward :D , but all other champions can use this rune
Thanks for your investigations! I'll look into this. :)
: Just wanted to let you know that these changes are absolutley HORRENDOUS and I loathe the direction you are going in. we dont need more damage in the runes we need LESS damage in the rune system. We have gotten to the point players dont want to take anything without damage on it so your solution is to add small amounts of damage to every other Rune just so players with fathom the thought of choosing it? Its like...Because Flat adaptive damage and raw stats have the system by such a stranglehold you say "screw it lets just put damage on EVERYthing so then EVERYTHING can be viable :))))" (lets just cave in give the brainlet masses what they want MORE DAMAGE! how could this possibly go wrong! URF is the FUTURE!) Do you seriously not understand how BADLY that shit is gonna backfire on you in the future? This free damage garbage is everything wrong with the Rune system If you removed all damage from the system and LITERALLY just made people choose between utility effects it would become 20X more interesting. The beauty of old runes was that they all nullified each other basically and made balancing a sinch (who WASNT gonna go 15 flat AD and 3 AS quints and MR blues/Armor Yellow). Imagine if you will a world where every assassin isn't running goddamn ELECTROCUTE. Imagine if you will a world where Scorch and Aery dont inflate early poke so damn badly on every poke champ. IMAGINE IF YOU WILL a WORLD that had ACTUAL VIABLE ALTERNATIVE CHOICES AND NOT THE ILLUSION OF IT. Now we are literally facing a point where {{champion:35}} to suddenly gain a literal{{item:1038}} of AD because he stepped into that River TriBrush with Ghost Poro,Absolute Focus and Waterwalking.(24+18+20=62 AD FOR FREEEEEEEeeeeEEEE ) Do you not realize how BADLY you are skewing champion balance by just tacking on damage here and damage there on every single rune? Do you not realize how you are inadvertantly making certain tree's all that more mandatory ? (Domination secondary on every single champ here we come! Goodbye forever Inspiration! Any rune that doesnt amp my dmg can suck it haHAA) was having to buff resolve tree to the point of obnoxiousness and damn near in-lane kill pressure immunity not a wake up call? Do you not understand that when characters kill or get killed within a span of a second IT BECOMES THAT MUCH HARDER TO APPRECIATE THE NUANCES OF THE CHAMPION KITS?! yeah no I HATE these changes so much and it re-affirms my belief that the Riot balance team is not spending enough time playing their own game. How do you look at how Assassins are just rolling soloQ and come to the conclusion that the tree that live and die by should get MORE damage added? my disappointment is so immeasurable not because you made a slight mistake here but a the fact that these changes even left the drawing board period as if enough people nodded and approved barfing more damage into the rune system was the BEST thing for League of Legends. now if you excuse me im gonna go use my skull to put a hole in my wall out of impotent rage and frustration. I HATE THIS NEW RUNESYSTEM SO MUCH ARGSHJSDFHGFSD( not conceptually but purely by how its being handled since its inception and how absolutely AWFUL and unenjoyable half of the runes are) I feel like Ren Hoek on a really bad day right now https://i.imgur.com/7t9SGbw.jpg <--- AHAHDADSHHHHHHH
Hey there Jyggalag, I want to thank you for bringing your opinion to light on the boards! Even the most scathing constructive feedback is incredibly useful to me and you have a tonne of great points in your post! I want to give you some further clarity on the vision slot changes and see if it helps ease your concerns. If not, then please let me know. Firstly, these changes were not made by the Riot Live balance team, so your feedback should be directed towards myself and the Core Gameplay team. Now, let's talk about some of your concerns: We are aware that there's a lot of flat damage accessible in the Runes system that's especially potent on ranged supports and other champions who can easily reapply the damage whenever the Rune comes off cooldown. However, these 2 changes to the vision slot shouldn't add much of this kind of damage to the early game. It's unlikely you'll get any damage from Zombie Ward at all in early laning phase, where flat damage Runes are consistently the most problematic. Players rarely start Oracle Lens rather than yellow Wards and Control Wards are an expensive risk to take at level 1, meaning you won't clear any enemy wards until after you pick up your scanner. So yes, there is a decent amount of flat magic damage attached to the Rune, but it's unlikely to have any impact on your early laning phase or even level 2-3 ganks. Ghost Poro however _does_ award stats (although not flat damage) from level 1, _if_ you are able to successfully enter the enemy's side of the map at level 1, place a Poro without being spotted and not have it discovered/cleared before you begin your first clear/wave. If you've managed to pull this off, with enemies watching out for invades etc, then you deserve the 3AD you'll get from it (plus the extra vision knowledge from the Poro, too). The most important thing to note here is that you can only choose 1 of the 3 Runes in the vision slot at a time, not all. As 3/4 of players in the vision slot are currently picking Eyeball Collector, the largest source of damage in the slot is already your games. We want players to feel better about picking one of the options with more vision tied to them which ultimately deal _less_ damage, not more. In fairness, more map awareness for your team or less vision for your opponents will likely affect your games far more than Eyeball Collection stats, but that's a discussion for another day! By the way, I actually think you have a great point about 'Runes should have zero stats/dmg and were all utility'. There's a universe where that could have been an awesome limitation to impose on the system, but we're not there for better or worse. I'm also not sure what you mean about the old Runes were beautiful because once they were solved, everyone took the same exact set-up. In all honesty that feels way less exciting and interesting to me than the current Runes landscape, but I respect your opinion nonetheless. I hope this post helps ease your concerns a little.
: New Domination Changes: Impressions/Feedback
> [{quoted}](name=Straniu,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=zW5P08zu,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-03T21:33:21.687+0000) Ravenous Hunter, Ultimate Hunter, Ingenious Hunter, Relentless Hunter Bounty Hunter stacks now grant 80 bonus gold > All great feedback here btw, but just wanted to call this out specifically as an accidental tooltip change. No in-game effect has been pushed to PBE nor are there any plans to do so.
: Like the Zombie ward but a huge problem with tte poro: What happens if you want to place a yellow trinket ward in a brush or over a wall close to you but the poro comes online and you can't place the ward. You give up crucial seconds to leave the brush. Maybe you want to ward another brush next to yours and have it active and then you place it but you didn't want to because you know it gets scared from there pretty fast and you might lose the bonus.
You have a small window for warding/using existing trinket upon entering brush. If you really need that trinket back in a high risk situation, I'd suggest dropping the poro at your feet and immediately casting the trinket after. Yes, you'll have placed your Poro in a less than desirable place, but that would have happened on the live version anyway.
: Does the Zombie Ward bonus damage buff last until you damage a champion or is there a window to proc it?
The window is infinite (but you lose the damage bonus if you die).
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