: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Program LeBlanc!
I see a lot of people taking a dump on the skin for various reasons, among which most often comes the one where it's not what they had expected for LB and the concern that because of this skin she will not get another one anytime soon. It does make me really sad, since I do actually enjoy the theme a LOT and see no particular reason to throw away and shelf a great piece of work, just because it is not in a direction that people expected. I'll list my personal good's and bad's about the skin, and hopefully we will see it hit live servers, as well as some great LeBlanc skins going into the future <3 The Good: - VFX and SFX are crisppppp. The voice filter is cool. The W visual is great! (Not sure if the flickering effect as it appears is meant to symbolize the snapback delay on the W return, but if it is, then it's a great touch. Seems a tad long, though). The E also feels very satisfying. - The recall is fantastic, both idea and execution-wise. I love seeing cool recalls. - It's a theme that I never imagined LB to fit into. Surely some people will say that it doesn't make any sense, but a couple years from now, it will only add to a great selection of LeBlanc skins. Who said robot LB isn't possible? - Idea-wise, I don't know how fitting this is for a non-legendary skin, but seeing as Zoe and Kai'sa skins feature the Ctrl+5 interactions, I was wondering if it's possible to be able to switch her head logo to that of her other skins, just as seen in the recall. - The staff is also fantastic imo. The Bad: - Her head is oddly small. Have you considered adding her signature diadem? Can't imagine it being difficult, but it will round the skin off nicely. - Green-Orange scheme. I am aware that those are the colours of the program skinline, but LeBlanc's ultimate being tied to purple colour has always been a staple thing that people are fairly used to. If not the skin itself, maybe perhaps the particles of the Mimicked spells? - I think the leg textures could use a little work (Seems a little crooked, maybe due to her older model?) Not sure if this can be fixed easily. - Finally, Program Lissandra has a VERY cool animated "mount" by her legs (or whatever it is she moves on). Adding something like that to LB's cape (similarly to Final Boss Veigar's cape) would be much preferred imo, over the static green cape, which doesn't feel very program'y. Alternatively, maybe a white cape, styled after the collar piece could work better to create contrast between her cape and the overall green background of Summoner's Rift. I will go ahead and admit that the skin isn't perfect in the total sense of the word, but I definitely cannot help but to remind that although a majority of vocal players might be disappointed, some like myself still love the skin and appreciate the hours of hard work already put into it! ^_^ Stoked to see it make it to live, and hopefully some changes to adjust it to the better can be made <3 Sincerely, your LeBlanc enthusiast, LesMensonges
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: I suppose I'm going to drop in my opinion as someone very pleased with the rework overall. **0.) First off, credentials, since it seems to be a thing:** Links to both of my NA accounts (roughly 300k points between the two, been playing LB consistently on my main since her inception) http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=LesMensonges http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=bladesurge I used to have a PBE Account named LesMensonges, where I had a fair share games of LB from S2 up to early S6 before it got deactivated (Speaking of which, is there any way to transfer my old name over to the new account?) Link to my LB Analysis/Guide (if anyone is specifically interested in my approach to the champion pre-rework): http://www.lolking.net/guides/389833 **1.) Addressing Rework Goals** > Make LeBlanc healthier by giving her opponents have time to respond when she goes in. By adding a little time between when LeBlanc goes in and when the full burst hits, the choice of whether to snap back to W's origin means LB has to give up damage. A 100% success on this one. Yes, I understand all the frustration that it brings to the Current Live LB players. There is no more fast burst, but it doesn't mean that **there is no more burst**. I think new iteration of LeBlanc perfectly encapsulates the opportunistic assassination playstyle. If you are prepared to make a play and they don't know it yet, you will succeed 9 out of 10 times. If they expect it, they have reasonable window to counterplay, BUT LeBlanc still has a choice to disengage to safety OR persist with the assault at the higher risk. Pre-Rework, LeBlanc was straight up a whether you are ready or not, you are going to take this damage and at a certain threshold, unless you had a very sizeable amount of protection, it meant straight death even if you positioned perfectly away from her. All of this was followed by an instant vanish back to safety, which literally presented no risk whatsoever to a competent LeBlanc player. And this IS the main problematic part about her. I firmly believe that denying it results from a 100% champion bias. > Give LeBlanc unique strategic tools and capabilities so she brings something to her games that other assassins don't. Absolutely. Currently, just from one day of testing, LeBlanc is capable of absolutely insane things. I won't even bother listing everything here, since it will turn into a college paper otherwise. I like the complexity very much, since LeBlanc was never intended to be an easy champion to play to begin with. I am also sure that whatever complains regarding the new ultimate mechanic are just there because of muscle memory. Soon as players re-adjust to the new system and unlock the whole potential of the new system, LeBlanc will be one of League's most creative champions! > In doing the first two things, emphasize her thematic identity as the Deceiver -- emphasize her tricky side. Also agreed. Everything plays towards deception now. I'm slightly disappointed with a very short Mirror Images duration on the Q,W,E variants of the ultimate, but if it's somehow tied into balance purposes, I can live with 1.5 seconds. I think Shadow of the Rose is greatly underrated by a lot of reviews, and it will take a Bard effect once people realize the full potential of the ability. Same goes for the regular Mirror Images, although to a lesser extent, since it's already a familiar mechanic. **2.) Individual Abilities Feedback** Just to note, since we are attempting to evaluate the new kit, I'll be assessing the skillset from the point of the current champion and will try to make as little connections to the precursor abilities as possible. > Passive - Sigil of Malice Impressions: * A slightly delayed burst passive fits fairly nicely into the theme of a Deceiver and a role of a mobile assassin/mage hybrid champion. * I **REALLY** like that the passive is applied on any spell damage instance and has no cooldown other than the lockout timer. This is important in a sense of not forcing LB to play for the marks and enables additional mindgaming/more measured gameplay, rather than forcing her to all in. * The damage right now is really high, which does make sense considering a fairly long delay. * In the long run, this passive will be valued differently across the ranked elo ranges. It will definitely be stronger in lower tiers in its current incarnation. Possible Ideas: * Definitely consider lowering the damage, but reducing the delay (Don't want to get into numbers, but perhaps 1 second? Maybe have it scale down with level from 1.5s-1s, although personally I don't think this duration should be a variable) * Making the lockout timer scale down with level to, perhaps, 3 seconds? * Both of the above would **definitely** benefit her high elo viability while cutting some of the raw power (that will otherwise certainly get abused) from lower elo zones * I don't see much other possible alternatives. Overall, the mechanic is very solid, doesn't need anything past simple number tuning. > Q - Shatter Orb Impressions: * Very simple (much needed simplicity in the already complicated kit) ability. Point-click damage on a moderate cooldown. * I like the mana cost reduction. The ability isn't as oppressive anymore, so if this didn't happen, it would be relegated to garbage tier efficiency wise. * The bouncing mechanic is a much needed waveclear help, especially in the context of the increased ultimate cooldown. Possible Ideas: * Honestly, don't think this should be touched. Already good as a balancing pivot in terms of numbers, shall she need any changes. > W - Distortion Impressions: * Absolutely lovely spell effects. I know this isn't the primary concern, but it's heart warming to see such nice aesthetics! * The lockout period on W is perfect. It's a needed counterplay measure for the cases when the enemy is good enough to predict the engage from LeBlanc, but not punishing enough to the point where she can't use it to disengage from a late attempt to CC her from the enemy. * Most the times, the delay is covered up by the max range dash itself, or just one ability afterwards, so in a sense of using it as a mobility tool, it's not getting hurt at all. * Dash speed feels unreal after the previous nerfs/re-buffs. I don't complain. Possible Ideas: * Definitely keep the blink-back delay, but don't make it too high. 0.3-0.5s sounds like what it should be with my LeBlanc main heart desiring the lower of the two ;) * I absolutely love the W-Q waveclear/teamfight interaction. It gives LeBlanc meaningful options other than going face (pardon my Hearthstone terminology.) Noteworthy, I like that Q can only bounce to the fully primed targets. It avoids any sort of bounce-cheese. Keep it that way. * Dash speed does feel necessary in a sense of having less time to react to initial damage, but having more time to avoid the serious burst from LeBlanc. Try to keep it around the same. Please don't go as low as in 6.1, that was awful T_T > E - Ethereal Chains Impressions: * I feel like the chain has been sped up slightly. Unsure if this is the case and whether this is needed if it is. * I like the indicator. No more complaints from the enemy about the rigged range or whatnot. * Chain proc securing the passive damage is a really good interaction! It solidifies a certain playstyle option and definitely feels rewarding to commit to trades. * Other than that not much to say, the ability itself is pretty much the same and I'm glad that it is. Possible ideas: * Please add back the little arm fling animation that LeBlanc used to make with her left arm! The chain awkwardly coming out of her body is really weird. * Gameplay wise, I think it's fine. > R - Mimic General: Impressions: * Absolutely love the toggle mechanic. In itself, it's a mindgame tool that can sometimes force an enemy to play safer. The added versatility of not being forced to use certain combos to prime ult variants is also great. * All three variants feel unique and worthy to use. Each one definitely has a use, even if it's not obvious. * The increased cooldown also feels justified, seeing as LeBlanc isn't forced to use her ultimate for waveclear anymore and can keep it solely for focusing on making plays. Possible Ideas: * Certainly don't reduce the cooldown. It **WILL** make LeBlanc extremely oppressive. Don't think it should be increased by much either. I think you've found a good curve already. * Perhaps make it an actual 1 second toggle? This would mostly serve the purpose of not locking out the usage of the base abilities while having the ultimate active (unless that's an intended downside, of course.) >R(Q) Mimicked ~~Sigil of Silence~~ *cough* Shatter Orb Impressions: * The stealth is probably the most lucrative aspect of this variant. Really good for repositioning. * The extra damage doesn't really feel like the primary use of the ability, seeing as it's hard to ever have the situation which favors using R(Q) on multiple targets marked by the passive. Possible ideas: *Make the ulted variant of the ability do increased damage to the targets with Sigil of Malice ticking or even detonate the Sigil early for a portion of the damage. This will certainly require number tuning elsewhere, but it does differentiate the ability in a sense of being a faster-weaker burst option and I'm sure will satisfy a lot of people currently upset by the rather long delays on her abilities. * Make the Mirror Image from this variant last longer (2-3 seconds maybe?) This would shift the ability into being more of a deception tool, rather than a straight up damage option (which LeBlanc currently doesn't seem to lack. The problem is mostly buying time for the passive.) * Overall, the ability is fine as is, but those two could be options if you would want to slightly change the direction of the champion.
I seem to have hit the allowed character limit in a single post >_> >R(W) Mimicked Distortion Impressions: * Fully retained its functionality, except for locking out the blink-back option for W while the Mimic buff is active. This isn't a big deal, though. * I like the double dash with the clone right on top of LeBlanc. Possible Ideas: * Honestly got nothing. The ability is already where it should be, in my opinion. It will always be a good contender to be used, since the extra dash alone is enough value to justify using this variant of the ultimate. > R(E) Mimicked Ethereal Chains Impressions: *Way more complex than it seems at first. The chains from LB and the Mirror Image can hit separate enemies. The chains have individual tether ranges. The clone can be controlled to deny a zone of safety from a Flash or another kind of escape. The chains can even hit two separate enemies! Very fascinating. * Definitely the second, if not the first best use for the ultimate now. * The double chain creates psychological pressure on the opponent and gives the LeBlanc player the true puppeteer feel. Possible Ideas: * Clarify the tooltips. I was definitely not aware of the fact that the Mirror Image chain actually does damage and roots. * Other than that, it's also great! > R(R) Shadow of the Rose Impressions: * This is everything I wanted from LeBlanc! The ultimate mindgame tool. Yes, it might be a simple AI, yes, it's not a powerful tool all alone, but it's has SUCH great potential for mindgames! * It definitely needs more information on how long the shadow lasts and DEFINITELY needs an indication that the ability is global. * The fear factor is great. It is actually capable of forcing Summoner Spells and other abilities. * Perhaps the most underrated ability at the moment. I see a lot of bashing that it won't work in high elo, but I feel like once the people understand what the ability is capable of, it will work best in high elo, ironically. Possible Ideas: * The timer information as well as some sort of indication that the ability is global is a must. * Other than that, there's too much potential. I might return to edit the post if I get some good ideas! **3.) Design and Gameplay Thoughts ** Won’t make this too long, since I think you already know that I’m absolutely ecstatic about this whole update! The VFX is absolutely breathtaking! The gameplay is also very fitting to the whole theme of LeBlanc. I am actually greatly pleased that she is moving away from simply being an Assassin and truly takes onto the role of the Deceiver. It opens up new possibilities for her playstyle and makes her much more complex and versatile. LeBlanc’s fantasy of forcing the enemy to play mindgames with her and taking their life if they guess wrong is finally realized! As for LeBlanc as a meta champion, I am sure she will eventually find her niche one way or another. I am always glad when meta shifts occur. It makes League of Legends be the game it is, always challenging to learn new things and take old ones onto the new level. I am sure many are displeased with the competitive spotlight moving away from LeBlanc, but remember, staying in the shadow is her specialty. When she returns, I’m sure it will be as glorious as when Faker first busted her out into the competitive scene in 2013! **4.) Bugs** Already encountered a few. They mostly have to deal with the W blink-back. Not sure if it’s due to the coding of the delay, but they sure are super hilarious. Will post them in the bugs thread soon! *5.) Closure and Thanks* A huge thank you to the design team!!! I couldn’t have asked for a better rework. It truly emphasizes the character of LeBlanc, makes her feel fresh and unique, and challenges the player to think above and beyond of what is normally required with a vast majority of the champions! I would like to ask you that you take your time in carefully balancing the champion within the next 20~ or whatnot days. You guys are doing a great job, please don’t be discouraged by the initial outrage from the community. You’ve elevated a champion to the heights of complexity unseen before and managed to not only retain the unique flavor of a champion, but also add onto that and make it even better. It will definitely take more time than one day to get used to the new LeBlanc, and uncover all of her hidden tricks and interactions, but I can already appreciate of what greatness has been bestowed upon the LeBlanc enthusiasts! THANKS! -LesMensonges, A long time LB Enthusiast And after all, remember… "The world is very different for those who cannot see beyond what is placed before their very eyes." - {{champion:7}} LeBlanc, the Deceiver
: [Assassins] LeBlanc Feedback Thread
I suppose I'm going to drop in my opinion as someone very pleased with the rework overall. **0.) First off, credentials, since it seems to be a thing:** Links to both of my NA accounts (roughly 300k points between the two, been playing LB consistently on my main since her inception) http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=LesMensonges http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=bladesurge I used to have a PBE Account named LesMensonges, where I had a fair share games of LB from S2 up to early S6 before it got deactivated (Speaking of which, is there any way to transfer my old name over to the new account?) Link to my LB Analysis/Guide (if anyone is specifically interested in my approach to the champion pre-rework): http://www.lolking.net/guides/389833 **1.) Addressing Rework Goals** > Make LeBlanc healthier by giving her opponents have time to respond when she goes in. By adding a little time between when LeBlanc goes in and when the full burst hits, the choice of whether to snap back to W's origin means LB has to give up damage. A 100% success on this one. Yes, I understand all the frustration that it brings to the Current Live LB players. There is no more fast burst, but it doesn't mean that **there is no more burst**. I think new iteration of LeBlanc perfectly encapsulates the opportunistic assassination playstyle. If you are prepared to make a play and they don't know it yet, you will succeed 9 out of 10 times. If they expect it, they have reasonable window to counterplay, BUT LeBlanc still has a choice to disengage to safety OR persist with the assault at the higher risk. Pre-Rework, LeBlanc was straight up a whether you are ready or not, you are going to take this damage and at a certain threshold, unless you had a very sizeable amount of protection, it meant straight death even if you positioned perfectly away from her. All of this was followed by an instant vanish back to safety, which literally presented no risk whatsoever to a competent LeBlanc player. And this IS the main problematic part about her. I firmly believe that denying it results from a 100% champion bias. > Give LeBlanc unique strategic tools and capabilities so she brings something to her games that other assassins don't. Absolutely. Currently, just from one day of testing, LeBlanc is capable of absolutely insane things. I won't even bother listing everything here, since it will turn into a college paper otherwise. I like the complexity very much, since LeBlanc was never intended to be an easy champion to play to begin with. I am also sure that whatever complains regarding the new ultimate mechanic are just there because of muscle memory. Soon as players re-adjust to the new system and unlock the whole potential of the new system, LeBlanc will be one of League's most creative champions! > In doing the first two things, emphasize her thematic identity as the Deceiver -- emphasize her tricky side. Also agreed. Everything plays towards deception now. I'm slightly disappointed with a very short Mirror Images duration on the Q,W,E variants of the ultimate, but if it's somehow tied into balance purposes, I can live with 1.5 seconds. I think Shadow of the Rose is greatly underrated by a lot of reviews, and it will take a Bard effect once people realize the full potential of the ability. Same goes for the regular Mirror Images, although to a lesser extent, since it's already a familiar mechanic. **2.) Individual Abilities Feedback** Just to note, since we are attempting to evaluate the new kit, I'll be assessing the skillset from the point of the current champion and will try to make as little connections to the precursor abilities as possible. > Passive - Sigil of Malice Impressions: * A slightly delayed burst passive fits fairly nicely into the theme of a Deceiver and a role of a mobile assassin/mage hybrid champion. * I **REALLY** like that the passive is applied on any spell damage instance and has no cooldown other than the lockout timer. This is important in a sense of not forcing LB to play for the marks and enables additional mindgaming/more measured gameplay, rather than forcing her to all in. * The damage right now is really high, which does make sense considering a fairly long delay. * In the long run, this passive will be valued differently across the ranked elo ranges. It will definitely be stronger in lower tiers in its current incarnation. Possible Ideas: * Definitely consider lowering the damage, but reducing the delay (Don't want to get into numbers, but perhaps 1 second? Maybe have it scale down with level from 1.5s-1s, although personally I don't think this duration should be a variable) * Making the lockout timer scale down with level to, perhaps, 3 seconds? * Both of the above would **definitely** benefit her high elo viability while cutting some of the raw power (that will otherwise certainly get abused) from lower elo zones * I don't see much other possible alternatives. Overall, the mechanic is very solid, doesn't need anything past simple number tuning. > Q - Shatter Orb Impressions: * Very simple (much needed simplicity in the already complicated kit) ability. Point-click damage on a moderate cooldown. * I like the mana cost reduction. The ability isn't as oppressive anymore, so if this didn't happen, it would be relegated to garbage tier efficiency wise. * The bouncing mechanic is a much needed waveclear help, especially in the context of the increased ultimate cooldown. Possible Ideas: * Honestly, don't think this should be touched. Already good as a balancing pivot in terms of numbers, shall she need any changes. > W - Distortion Impressions: * Absolutely lovely spell effects. I know this isn't the primary concern, but it's heart warming to see such nice aesthetics! * The lockout period on W is perfect. It's a needed counterplay measure for the cases when the enemy is good enough to predict the engage from LeBlanc, but not punishing enough to the point where she can't use it to disengage from a late attempt to CC her from the enemy. * Most the times, the delay is covered up by the max range dash itself, or just one ability afterwards, so in a sense of using it as a mobility tool, it's not getting hurt at all. * Dash speed feels unreal after the previous nerfs/re-buffs. I don't complain. Possible Ideas: * Definitely keep the blink-back delay, but don't make it too high. 0.3-0.5s sounds like what it should be with my LeBlanc main heart desiring the lower of the two ;) * I absolutely love the W-Q waveclear/teamfight interaction. It gives LeBlanc meaningful options other than going face (pardon my Hearthstone terminology.) Noteworthy, I like that Q can only bounce to the fully primed targets. It avoids any sort of bounce-cheese. Keep it that way. * Dash speed does feel necessary in a sense of having less time to react to initial damage, but having more time to avoid the serious burst from LeBlanc. Try to keep it around the same. Please don't go as low as in 6.1, that was awful T_T > E - Ethereal Chains Impressions: * I feel like the chain has been sped up slightly. Unsure if this is the case and whether this is needed if it is. * I like the indicator. No more complaints from the enemy about the rigged range or whatnot. * Chain proc securing the passive damage is a really good interaction! It solidifies a certain playstyle option and definitely feels rewarding to commit to trades. * Other than that not much to say, the ability itself is pretty much the same and I'm glad that it is. Possible ideas: * Please add back the little arm fling animation that LeBlanc used to make with her left arm! The chain awkwardly coming out of her body is really weird. * Gameplay wise, I think it's fine. > R - Mimic General: Impressions: * Absolutely love the toggle mechanic. In itself, it's a mindgame tool that can sometimes force an enemy to play safer. The added versatility of not being forced to use certain combos to prime ult variants is also great. * All three variants feel unique and worthy to use. Each one definitely has a use, even if it's not obvious. * The increased cooldown also feels justified, seeing as LeBlanc isn't forced to use her ultimate for waveclear anymore and can keep it solely for focusing on making plays. Possible Ideas: * Certainly don't reduce the cooldown. It **WILL** make LeBlanc extremely oppressive. Don't think it should be increased by much either. I think you've found a good curve already. * Perhaps make it an actual 1 second toggle? This would mostly serve the purpose of not locking out the usage of the base abilities while having the ultimate active (unless that's an intended downside, of course.) >R(Q) Mimicked ~~Sigil of Silence~~ *cough* Shatter Orb Impressions: * The stealth is probably the most lucrative aspect of this variant. Really good for repositioning. * The extra damage doesn't really feel like the primary use of the ability, seeing as it's hard to ever have the situation which favors using R(Q) on multiple targets marked by the passive. Possible ideas: *Make the ulted variant of the ability do increased damage to the targets with Sigil of Malice ticking or even detonate the Sigil early for a portion of the damage. This will certainly require number tuning elsewhere, but it does differentiate the ability in a sense of being a faster-weaker burst option and I'm sure will satisfy a lot of people currently upset by the rather long delays on her abilities. * Make the Mirror Image from this variant last longer (2-3 seconds maybe?) This would shift the ability into being more of a deception tool, rather than a straight up damage option (which LeBlanc currently doesn't seem to lack. The problem is mostly buying time for the passive.) * Overall, the ability is fine as is, but those two could be options if you would want to slightly change the direction of the champion.

RayanxLes

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