: They are like that even on live. This is not a bug.
my bad, thanks; been a while since I played Rammus on live
Rioter Comments
: Good point - it doesn't.
: Midseason Update - Utility Contribution
just to be sure, the summoner spell tracking doesnt work on flash? itd be a shame to get rid of flash jukes
: Yes. It had an issue getting through the PBE whitelist, but should be working appropriately tomorrow morning. Sorry for the inconvenience.
I just (4/7/2017, ~5:30EST) tried it out with Cho'Gath and it increases size, but not HP (base or bonus) Thanks!
: Lissandra passive changes
I think it's a cool way to open up different builds, especially a more battle-mage build, since she has some underutilized tools, like her self-ult heal. I don't know that this is enough to change her from the burst mage/assassin style, but it's a cool alternative playstyle, max CDR with lich bane and alternating Q and AAs.
: Practice Tool now live on PBE for initial testing.
This practice tool is a goddamn miracle. I've been playing for about 3-4 years, and have never been able to respectably ward jump on Lee Sin, even while stationary. 8 minutes with this tool and I've learned how to Q->Q+ward jump in any direction. One request is that some sort of "auto-refresh items" is built into the functions, so things like refillable potion stacks and sightstone wards will refresh without having to go back to fountain. It's not the most necessary feature, since auto-refresh HP exists and the cooldown reset works on trinkets, and I could always just adjust keybinds so my trinket is where my sightstone usually would be, but it would be a nice add on later on. I only had a few minutes to play with the tool tonight, but I can't wait to start investing more and more time into this. Maybe I'll be able to play Nidalee again. Maybe :3
Rioter Comments
: Might I recommend that the tooltip can be changed for a bit more clarity. Because at the moment it says... "Warwick briefly senses all enemies." Where as it would be better explained it it were something like... "Warwick briefly senses all nearby enemies." The only indication that there was a range for the active was hovering the ability to see a casting range, and using it several times and having nothing happen. At first I thought I was canceling it somehow, until I figured out what was going on.
I second this; I was confused for a while since I thought the active was global like the passive The effect is also really subtle and easy to miss, also blends together with all the other blood-red effects that Warwick has
: Warwick Update Feedback Thread
Hi! Had a chance to play him in a custom/bot game (practice mode where :3), some initial impressions: * His Q has some weird interactions; I imagine some of this is due to lack of practice (it's a very strange/new input), but it was difficult to tell when I was going to dash through the enemy or just dash to them, unless I very clearly hold down the key until well after I dashed (it felt like I had to hold the key all the way through the dash; if I released when Warwick was dashing through/in the middle of the enemy model, Warwick would just snap back in front of the target? Correct me if I'm wrong; it was difficult to tell since there was a bit of lag). Basically, it's difficult to use in the middle of a fight (as oppose to just holding down Q while running at the enemy from afar) and it's difficult to chain multiple inputs in at a time. I know, it's Warwick, when are you going to chain a bunch of commands at once, but I think the current input makes it a bit more difficult to do cool things like Q and then move into A+clicking or EQE combos for a mini InSec. * There is a ton of visual noise; between the border fx, the W active sense, the blood trails, and the ult range indicator, it is incredibly difficult to tell one from another since it's all blood-red wispy lines. The border fx is especially annoying/intrusive when there's a low enemy that you aren't planning on ganking anytime soon, but you still have to deal with that border until that enemy dies/heals/etc. Additionally, the blood trails aren't totally visually smooth, and it's a bit awkward to be following the trail around a corner and slow down since you're not strictly traveling towards an enemy, but are still right on top of the blood trail. * On a related note, I found it very difficult to judge my ult range, especially during sudden MS changes (ie. activating ghost+R in one motion) Overall I really like the direction, and am hoping to make him one of my regular champions once he goes live, but he still feels a bit rough in parts. Thanks!
: Likely intentional since the 2nd auto has so much power and is on such a short cooldown
Yea, was trying it out again, it's just a practice issue. You're right it doesn't take too long to get used to
: It's pretty simple once you realize how it works, it just has a learning curve. The visual and audio queue's are good, it's just that we haven't had a skill quite like that before.
I've been able to use it fine just by feel, but I can't tell if the cues work the way I think they work. The period you have to reactivate Q and attack feels so much shorter than the interval period.
: Camille auto attack range
I also agree; I'd also like a bit of extra range on her second Q; it feels like it'd make more sense, visually. On that topic, I'm still confused how the visual/audio cues on her Q work; I think an explanation or some more visual clarity would go a long way. At the moment, it feels like the dull glow should indicate the waiting period and the brighter visual effect indicates the window to activate your second Q and deal more damage. How I think it works is that the glow actually shows the window, where the flash indicates you're almost out of time, which feels pretty awkward.
: [Assassins] LeBlanc Feedback Thread
So far I really like the new LeBlanc; the way her ult works now opens up a lot of flexibility, though I will have to retrain my muscle memory off of her old combos (shame, since old/current LeBlanc taught me how to combo my spells, so it's pretty deep muscle memory, lol). I'm wondering why her passive delay is a flat delay, and doesn't scale down with levels. It feels a bit strange, since I'm used to LeBlanc's combos being very fluid and predictable based on how well I execute the combo, but now there's this added element where it almost doesn't matter if I get my combo off in .5 seconds or 1.5 seconds, since I have to wait for her passive. I understand the need for breathing room in lane, but LeBlanc's windows get shorter and shorter as the game goes on, so 1.5 seconds becomes a really long time in the mid/late game. Thanks!
: [Assassins] Katarina Feedback Thread
This rework is basically a (far) more refined version of what I was imagining for her, and I love it. She's going to take a lot more to get used to playing (she's not as straightforward/"snappy" as old/current Kat), especially the thing where you can now control which side of something you shunpo to, but she's a lot of fun, I love champions that alter lane dynamics in the way her daggers work (ie. Shen, Orianna). I'm wondering how you settled on the offset distance for Q landing; why 350 units? Thanks! EDIT: Also can we come up with a better name for her W? Please? lol
: Just finished trying out the new reworked Katarina and I can safely say I was completely blown away by the new options you now have at your disposal. She feels infinitely better to play and I already have experience the amount of outplay potential she now has with all her shunpo resets. I just have to ask Riot Whales, would you guys consider making her W (Preparation) aim-able instead of it just landing at her current location. I have to say it feels a little strange not being able to aim it and I feel that it could bring more opportunities for shunpo reset shenanigans if it was capable of being aimed in a targeted direction, and it would give more a feel that Katarina is setting up her shunpos. If this change is not possible I understand, there is a lot you have to attend to but it would certain be a nice touch. But other than that you all did an amazing with her and she feels amazing to play, I feel like I am actually playing this high speed blade throwing assassin of death and it is certainly never a dull moment with her anymore.
her q gives her an aimable reset. her w gives her flexibility, and honestly, getting blink resets on a resourceless champion this easily is powerful enough; she'd have to give up a lot in order to aim her W forward.
: For her w why make it a tossing in her current location rather than her tossing it in a target direction. Just curious. Would be really cool to throw her w forward and shunpo to it to get closer to a target.
That's what her Q is for; her W gives her flexibility, where you can use it before going in to give her a guaranteed escape (especially if you have something else to shunpo to), or in the middle of a fight for more damage, or cast it when the enemy is moving towards you so you can fake a retreat but then turn on them, etc etc.
: Ivern Feedback Thread
Thanks! Overall I really like Ivern. One thing I would like to see is a control redundancy where pressing Q a second time once the target is rooted allows Ivern to jump to them; It's just muscle memory from playing Lee Sin, and I think it would help a lot of junglers who pick up Ivern.
: Ivern Bug Report Thread
> please direct any feedback to the thread dedicated to the Champions and Gameplay feedback board I can't seem to find said thread, anyone know where I could find it?
: Yorick Update Feedback Thread
Hi Solcrushed, great work! Overall I really like Yorick, and wanted to offer some feedback (mostly regarding clarity) (This is based on my experience in a custom vs. bots) 1. It'd really be nice to know how many graves are around you, maybe a counter on your Q (like how there's a counter for walkers on the passive). It can get a little hectic and hard to count the graves around you in the middle of a fight, and it'd be great to be able to know something like "I have two graves within range, I go for a risky minion with my Q and summon my fleet to turn this fight around." 2. Along those lines, it'd be nice to know when the passive grave-drop is going to occur, for the same reason as above. Perhaps in the buff bar? 3. The exclamation points above the walkers when they aggro on a target are confusing. When I see that, I think Azir soldiers, where the exclamation point means the soldiers are about to die from being too close to a turret, not that they're aggro'd onto a target. I think his gameplay has improved a lot, where he has definite high and low points, instead of just stacking a tear and suffocating your opponent with endless ghouls.
: Ryze Champion Update Feedback and Discussion
Been playing around with Ryze in customs, I'm glad the relatively high skill floor is back. His new E is really cool; I like how dynamic it makes his combos, where there are some to get you started and then more complex ones, then the mastery curve of using the right combo in the right situation. Feels a lot like LeBlanc in that respect, which is cool. There's a bug with the new (6/30) Rune passive, where the first time you fully charge a rune and use it, the runes don't charge for the rest of the game (ie. EWQ/WEQ/EEQ once and your passive won't charge for the rest of the game).
: - New Ryze is much easier to pick up, and he's a lot of fun. - Probably a little overtuned. Was doing 1000 damage on E->Q fully leveled. - Mana to damage seems a little tacked-on at this point, especially since it adds up to so little when fully built. - When you're using a lane-clear EEQ combo, you have to cross your fingers and hope your E target survives long enough to spread its effect. By endgame, you can actually be too strong to feasibly use your lane clear combo, unless you exclusively target cannon/siege minions. - If R's meant to be usable as an escape, then if you try to cast R beyond its range, it should cast to its maximum range instead of making Ryze try to walk to a point where he can teleport that far. - VA is a bit quiet. - {{champion:13}} WE GOTTA DO IT MORTY WE GOTTA SAVE RUNETERRA MORTY YOU HAVE TO RUSH THE ENEMY FOUNTAIN, JUST GET IN THERE MORTY USE FLASH IF YOU HAVE TO
E also spreads if it kills the target, so late game you can just last hit a minion with E and then Q the wave.
: For a bit of context on naming, Deep Terror Nami isn't a bad name for her by any means - as we have both Deep Terror and Deep Sea lines - she's not really a terror, and is a bit more on the friendly side, so we opted for Deep Sea. :)
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Deep Sea Nami! (!!!)
[On behalf](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/p3jmUo2b-deep-sea-nami) of [Deep Terror Nami](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/player/NA/Deep%20Terror%20Nami), I request the name be changed to "Deep Terror Nami." Thank you EDIT: Derp [he changed his mind](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/p3jmUo2b-deep-sea-nami?comment=001a0000)
: Jinx Rocket AS changes in testing
Hi gypsylord Glad this change is being made; Jinx is one of my favorite ADCs, and her rockets never felt right after the change. I have yet to test them, but from the other feedback, it seems like it's good I'm actually here (sorry this is off-topic) to ~~bait~~ ask you about this so-called "sun strike" ability? ZenonTheStoic mentioned that he ~~stole~~ adopted your rupture-push ability for Taliyah's W in the podcast, and he also mentioned that you're a big advocate for this other "sun strike" ability. I was wondering if I could also get in on the idea pitch :P
: Taliyah Q
You can cast a full Q at the very edge of another Q zone; this way you maximize your space usage. Think of the ground like a resource, just like your mana; you have to manage your use, not just spam everything out as soon as you can
: The trick is to make one q zone near the edge of the lane where it won't obstruct anything and use that q zone to last hit. I think riot needs to refund half the Q cd and more than just half of the mana if she uses it for the one shot so she has a good last hitting tool other wise she ends up blowing ground to last hit. Also the zones need to be much more visible.
Exactly, it's a form of resource management; she's an earth mage, she manages the earth as a resource. If you spam out your empowered Q too much in lane, you'll run out of land and be weak, but if you carefully manage how you use your land, she's pretty well balanced.
: Taliyah feedback thread
First off, Zenon, I just want to say that I haven't been this hyped about a champion release in at least a year, but this time it means more since I understand the game much better. There are so many elegant subtleties to how her kit works and interacts with the environment, I'm so excited to start to figure them out. I could continue to gush about her, but I'll just cut to the feedback. I wish there was some way to know when your worked earth is going to disappear, some sort of timer (maybe the cracks can slowly revert?), since there are so many ways you can establish your zone, and it'd be amazing to be able to set up timing attacks right as one of your circle disappears. The circles last for so long and you can make so many of them at a time that it's impossible to keep track of all the timers. I also found it somewhat difficult to know when your passive would kick in; it feels like you really have to hug the wall, but you can also skip through gaps when headed to lane or skipping past your inhib+inhib turret, for example. I really like how you can plan out your travel routes to maximize your passive, but it's also a little difficult to tell what routes you have without just having a ton of playtime on her. I really like how the difference in your Q on unworked vs. worked land really makes you maximize your land area, as well as plan out your zone, but there still feels like there's too much discrepancy between the two, where I would never want to cast Q unless I could get the 5 shots. I know you said don't suggest solutions, but here I think I wouldn't feel as punished/at a loss if the cooldown was lower while on worked ground, since it's a decent cooldown early, and given the low base damage of a single shot. I struggled a lot with knowing where I was with her ult, but I think that might just come with experience (also holding spacebar). I did think it was very difficult to use for anything high-level, since terrain creation spells are usually very precise (Anivia wall/Trundle pillar for instance, are spells you really get to split hairs with between allies and enemies). I guess this will just naturally be less precise/more difficult to use, since it has such massive range/travel time. Again, sorry for the proposal, but just as an idea, I think it'd be kind of cool to have the zoom hack Jhin has, so you can simultaneously see the situation at the end of your wall to decide whether to continue riding or to be able to input a command to hop off in the right spot. Otherwise it feels like it really limits your options as far as using the spell. That's all for now, thanks!
: Then you would just click, release, instead of click, drag, release
> [{quoted}](name=I208iN,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=AHZlwKca,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2016-05-04T07:13:13.069+0000) > > Then you would just click, release, instead of click, drag, release but if you twitch your mouse in any direction, it'll knock them in a different direction
: Taliyah's W should smart cast like Viktor's E or Rumble's R
I actually like it as-is; it took a second to get used to, but I think having the option to just knock someone straight up is important to keep.
: MYMU - Cassiopeia Discussion
So I'm no KingCobra, but I did get a chance to try out Cassio: Overall she feels pretty nice. I echo the sentiment that W feels a bit awkward, but I think the range is something I could get used to? (I only tried the latest build, with 750 range; it aligned better with her other spells, but I don't have the before-value to compare so not sure how much of an improvement it was). I am concerned when you say her W fixed range should be an advantage for her opponents; I completely understand that it's a powerful spell that Cassio never had before, and you're wary of giving her unnecessary strengths, but I don't know if it costs too much in terms of playability/"feel". I think it's inherently frustrating to feel like you're fighting your champion's controls. I'm not sure if you've tried/what you think of Cassio charging her W range, like Xerath Q, where the longer you charge, the wider the arc and longer the range; and then reducing the AoE width so you have to be more accurate with your placement. I think that this would give more control back to Cassio players, feel better, and give higher mastery, without completely compromising on the counterplay, especially since she won't be able to cast her other spells while charging her W. You can also set the minimum and maximum range to help with the counterplay issues (ie. she's still in trouble if they're right in her face). Everything else feels good; you feel punished for E'ing a target that's not poisoned, since the damage is pretty poor without, but the reward for hitting a poisoned target is immense. Maybe I'm just bad at Cass, but the Q poison duration makes it difficult to get more than 1-2 Es on a target before it wears off and you have to re-apply another Q. Those are my thoughts for now, thanks!
: MYMU - Brand Discussion
Bombs are crazy, lol. I think it's pretty cool how you made his blazed E more relevant by changing the passive in this way; using your blazed E lets you get more stacks on more people, so there's actually a point to it now, lol. Trying him out briefly on PBE, he's really fun with the bomb passive, and it's nice to know your ult is a bit more reliable
: Hey ProfBeefCake! One of the major problems with old transfusion was that Vlad could just sit on it -- so, whenever an enemy was nearby, he would hit them for 'free' damage. Seeing this, I identified two possible ways to fix the problem: (1) Attack the 'free' part, and make it dodge-able, and (2) attack the 'sit on it part,' adding incentives to keep Q on cooldown and give the opponent time to breathe or ready a counterattack. The gameplay for (2) already existed *to some degree*, as Vladimir tended to cast it on CD for the health, but it was very difficult to appreciate (mostly only very high leveled players could grasp how to play around it), and not particularly engaging for the opponent. By making that aspect of the ability appreciable for both Vlad and the opponent, we could create meaningful counterplay that played off the existing Vladimir kit. And that's what led me here - now Vlad *always* wants to cast Q to fuel his Crimson Rush, giving him a game-changing moment to shoot, and while he does that, leaving his opponents with windows of opportunity.
Thanks for the response! So am I correct in saying I misunderstood the problem? I had always thought the issue with Vlad's Q was there *wasn't* any reason for him to just sit on it; he would always cast it on cooldown (it didn't matter too much if it was a minion or enemy champion), keep his health up, and scale into late game. If he was overtuned, it was impossible to force him out of lane, and if undertuned, no one but the most dedicated players would pick him up. I could be completely off; I'm not much of a Vlad player, but that's what I thought the issue was.
: I agree with you that Morellonomicon might be the optimal build path. However, I've found that from internal playtests, Morellonomicon no longer lets you play an infinite poke style with mages as it gives Flat Mana rather than a ramping regeneration pattern - so by the end game - if you go purely with Morellonomicon - the far end game you might be running out of Mana more often that you think. I've also seen Ziggs, Syndra and the like usually swap to Tear based strategies if they are planning a super long term attrition style of game. Then again... Hextech Frost Cannon's active has been powerful enough to cause players to discard both playstyles in favor of just having that cone slow - so I'm having a hard time gauging from internal playtest how it'll eventually turn out. I agree that the amount of champions that have Athene's are relatively small - it basically encompasses all the hybrid mage/supports but also is an option for any potential spammy healer type. Would be interested to hear your opinion on the number tuning of it after you've had a chance to try it out on PBE.
Regarding Morellonomicon; why does it lose the lost chapter's passive (restore 20% mana on level up)? Is that to try to push users to a more offensive playstyle?
: Vladimir Rework Impressions
You should copy-paste this in a comment in the [pinned thread](http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/geVackqi-mymu-vladimir-discussion) too, just in case Stashu checks there first. This is good feedback and he should see this ASAP
: MYMU - Vladimir Discussion
Hey Stashu, just tried Vlad out on PBE. I really like what you did with him; his gameplay *feels* powerful and fun, with a lot more interactivity than before, and all without taking the easy route of turning his spells into skillshots. I'm impressed. One thing I'm curious about is his Q; IIRC the old issue was that there wasn't really much thought into using it; you used it whenever it was up. There is slightly more planning possible in using his Q now, with how you want to save your third stack to deal more damage, but it still feels like you want to burn it on anything you can get your hands on since the duration to use it is pretty short. I'm not really sure about it; on one hand, it feels like there's more thought into planning on getting your third proc at the right moment to get a good trade with your opponent, but on the other hand, it feels like you just want to use it on cooldown even more than before.
: MYMU Annie, Fiddle, Veigar Discussion
I'm not sure this is something that's possible before 6.9, but I think it'd be really cool if Tibbers was on all fours when Enraged and running at a target; him walking upright that fast seems a little goofy, and being on all fours would look really cool (like the Twist of Fate Cinematic). > Crowstorm (R) - Casts at max range if cast out of range This is massive. I might be able to play Fiddle now. Maybe
: Spell Vamp Runes after Rework?
What the others have said. They also mentioned champions with built-in spell-vamp (ie. Morgana) get to keep it
Rioter Comments
: Yeah, I'd like to put in some little tweaks so they won't overlap so much. It looks pretty bad pretty often.
Also do you think we can get a voidling count in the buff bar? Loving the update so far though; things get crazy when you have multiple voidlings on an ulted target, lol, can you say zerg rush? XD
: Great questions! Let's break this into a couple scenarios. Let's say we do a VGU on Cho'gath. We would redesign the champion as needed (which yes, he really needs), which would mean that even if the splashes were up to the quality bar, they'd be updated to reflect the new design elements. This doesn't necessarily mean an entirely new splash though (see: base Shen). However, let's say we do a Roster update on say... oh let's go back in time and use Graves. Since his design isn't changing, he's unlikely to get new splashes, however! Say he had a splash that was just woefully under quality- we might use that opportunity to update it. Let's go with another situation, for the backlog splash updates. Let's say that we're updating Akali, and not redesigning her (unlikely outside of a Roster update, but let's roll with it). We would be unlikely to update Silverfang, as the quality is very good. Though on second though, the pose is a _little_ weird, so we might investigate it. Hope that makes sense, it's not 100% though- the scope and level of each champion and of each splashes highly varies on the situation, character, updates, etc. You get the idea. Now, on your Legendary skin question, that's a bit trickier. I want to say, to date, we've only ever visually updated two legendary skins- Steel Legion Garen, and Firefighter Tristana. For Steel Legion Garen (and honestly we could have done better), we didn't do much, merely bringing it onto the new rig, and updating it to the new abilties. For Firefighter Tristana (a modern example), we (will be) completely updating the splash, took the feature set and brought it into modern times, and updated it to the new abilities. Edit: Yes, I goofed on SL Garen being legendary. It was 1350! Sorry about that. As for Magnificent TF and Annie in Wonderland, that was a very long time ago, back when ChampUp was barely a team! If we were in the middle of a VGU on Cho'gath _right now_, we would likely reconcept it in the spirit of the skin (making him a true gentleman), update the splash, and give it -something- warranting the RP cost, but well... we haven't cracked Cho open yet, so I don't know exactly what we'd want to do. Definitely play up that mouth, and there's a great opportunity on his ult stacks for visual representation... Ah, but yeah. That's the best I can give you. Does uh... That answer your questions?
Thanks for making this thread. If I could ask, what was the specific reason the Goth Annie splash was changed? There wasn't any gore/drug use in her splash, and the update just changed her expression and make-up. The original is one of my favorite splash arts in the game, so I'm wondering if I should save a copy now or if I'll still be able to see it in-game. Thanks
: Taric Visual and Gameplay Update Feedback/Bugs Thread
Can't say I was much of a Taric player before, but I'll say what I can: ~~First off, y'all need to up the mancleave on Fifth Age Taric's in-game model to match his splash. It's gamebreaking :3~~ RIOT DELIVERS He feels really fun to play, being able to move during your E cast is great. With a good teammate and some practice, you can come up with some pretty cool Es. Taric is one of those champions I've always wanted to enjoy playing, but never really did, and I think I'll play him a lot more once his rework goes live (it was the same with Shen; he's now one of my favorite champions). His Q healing feels really underwhelming, especially since it costs a ton of mana and can't stack. I get that it's AoE now, but perhaps you could retain an effect like, if he's the only one being healed it's increased, like with live Taric. I understand you can get a ton of healing off, on your entire team depending on positioning, but even with the CDR interaction, the mana cost really prevents multiple casts. One thing I'm concerned about is too much of his power budget being focused into the fact that he can double-cast all his abilities thanks to his W, so everything else about his kit will have to take a hit. It also feels like his numbers have been watered down because his spells are AoE now (which may or may not be a good thing). Overall I like the rework; it feels like a straight upgrade in terms of visuals and gameplay. The main complaint is that his Q doesn't feel good to use; it costs a lot of mana, takes a lot of time to gather 3 charges, but doesn't feel like an impactful heal. I assume it's really great in teamfights, but given that the increased CD mechanism sort of encourages just using his Q in his spell-weave combo, the cost-to-benefit just seems prohibitive. Perhaps if the mana cost started low, and increased based on how many charges consumed, it would feel better. For example, say the spell costs 60 mana base, then 30 mana per additional charge consumed. So, using 1 charge would cost 60 mana, 2 costs 90, 3 costs 120. Also, if you have 3 charges but only 70 mana, you can still cast the spell and consume 1 charge. I think another reason the spell feels underwhelming is because there's not much benefit for saving up 3 stacks besides being slightly more mana-efficient, since the heal doesn't really increase that much. To get 3 stacks, you either have to be really patient or work hard using your passive to cut the cooldown, but at the end of that, you really don't get much extra.
: Missing ability sounds in co-op game
Yea, same issue; was playing new Taric in a custom, I could only hear sounds for Taric, no other champions
: Jhin Balance Feedback!
Finally got some playtime on him (and against him) > Is Jhin doing something with his kit you feel he shouldn’t? The only thing on his kit that seems a bit out of place is his MS buff on crits; after he fires his 4th shot he should either have finished off the enemy or be at his most vulnerable. Here it gives him either a chance to chase or back off and reload, suggesting he isn't finished. I get that that's supposed to be a "finale" moment in his kit (which is also why it has execute damage), so there should be something to accompany it, but he seems to fit more with the very immobile ADCs like Kog, especially since he has a lot of range and utility on his kit. It makes a bit more sense with his W, since he'll need to get in range to take advantage of the root. As far as his itemization, I think his decisions are a lot less interesting/he makes fewer trade-offs since every stat he builds gives him damage. Of course there's always a mathematically superior option, but as an example, if an ADC has ~900 gold, they can either get the stable option of a pickaxe for damage, or opt for something like an avarice blade and take that gamble dealing less damage, for the greater pay off later with higher gold generation. For Jhin, everything gives him damage, so he doesn't really lose out as much making that decision. The rest is numbers-based; I just think Jhin is really snowbally. His E having a high ratio makes sense, since you're not really supposed to get hit by it (it manipulates his opponent into a favorable position for him) but given the utility on his W, I feel like the damage on his W is too high. This is especially in light of the way his AD scaling works; his ratios are deceptively high since he gets so much more AD than other champions. I feel like his W should be more for its utility rather than just having this massive range poke tool. I think it'd make sense to lower the damage significantly, but give it a slow on unmarked enemies. > Conversely, what ISN’T Jhin doing with his kit that you feel he should? The only thing I think is that his theme could be pushed a bit further; this could be through particles or gameplay. One interesting connection I just figured out is that because his Q ramps in damage as it kills minions, it actually pushes his opponent to run away, so I think it would be cool if there was a greater delay between bounces and the particle changed as it bounces, just to amp up the dramatic effect and give incentive for the opponent to respect his Q zone
: Jhin Gameplay & Feel Feedback!
Finally got some time on him: Generally, he's a lot of fun, his kit is smoother and more interactive (to play and play against) than I expected. Thematically, he fits a lot better than I expected, as well. His WER having delays/indicators in addition to his massive range really plays into the feeling that you're the director manipulating the fight from behind the scenes. He's very powerful, snowballs pretty hard imo, but given that it does seem a bit too easy for him to get back in the game, given all his range, utility, and damage. ~~His Q seems out of place with the rest of his kit, even thematically since he has very little control over where it bounces,~~ (EDIT: I can kind of see the thematic element of his Q, since they see it bouncing and killing enemies, so the damage is ramping up and the enemy wants to get outside of its range, however if this really is the case, I think the bounce should have a longer, "more dramatic" time between bounces, so that the enemy knows it's coming and has time to react) but it's a valuable spell for what it does; at the same time, I think it could cover up a valuable weakness for him, since he's supposed to be easy to shove in, but his Q gives him strong waveclear and last-hitting. (EDIT2: I don't really understand why he has a MS boost; maybe so he has a chance to retreat and reload once he uses his crit? This seems like an unnecessary strength, since 1. it's supposed to be a finale (it even has execute damage), and 2. he's supposed to be weak after his 4th shot, but he gets a free escape/chase tool. I think this was mentioned elsewhere, but I think it'd make sense if he *only* crit on his 4th shot; his autos basically do crit-damage already but this also gives him a lot more control and predictability in his MS boost.) His W hitbox has some edge cases where it feels like it's hitting things it shouldn't, and not-hitting things it should, given that it seems like such a high-precision skillshot. I also feel like he doesn't have as many interesting decisions when it comes to itemization; everything gives you damage. If I'm playing Jinx and working towards an IE, and I back with ~800g but I already have a pickaxe, I have to make a decision whether I want to get a cloak of agility, save up for BFS, or buy something like T2 boots or some other component item. For Jhin, I don't have quite the same decision, I can buy whatever and it all gives me AD (some options are mathematically superior, of course, but it's a lot less interesting of a decision, imo). > 1. How does the reloading mechanic feel? Is it smooth and understandable? Anything awkward feeling about it that you'd like to see improved? I've played a bit of Graves, and it feels pretty similar, nothing strange about it. The cues really help you know when you're down to your last shot (as well as him counting). > 2. What's the best way to use Lotus traps? Zone control, it's honestly a pretty interesting decision imo, since the delay is just long enough that, as the opponent, you can trigger his traps and still make it out before it detonates (even with low base speed). Doing so clears up your area, however it also makes you vulnerable to follow-up damage and especially his W. You can start to choke off the opponent's lane, but it also makes you reserve your W as a punishing tool for triggering the traps. I feel like it's a spell that shouldn't land on the opponent unless you outplay them; either simply with a good W or with teammates stacking CC once the trap triggers. > 3. How does the ultimate zoom in/zoom out feel? Are there any areas for improvement? I'm concerned that it can be disorienting (especially on the zoom in), so would like to get your thoughts. When you zoom back in afterwards where do you want the camera to go to? Where you were shooting? Your character? Behind you? It felt fine to me; since you're in control of when you zoom out for the most part (so far it seems pretty difficult to get interrupted since you're usually so far away when you're using it; it may get more hectic in teamfights). I feel like locking on Jhin would make sense, but it could also be that the camera returns to wherever you were looking before you ulted.
: Should Jhin's fourth shot count as two auto attacks for wards/traps/plants?
If he does, Graves should have something to match, which would probably be OP. I think it's fine for Jhin to have to wait longer to clear a pink; a lot of champions (support mages especially) have really slow AAs, so clearing pinks is only like, 1 second faster than it is for Jhin.
: I havent tried it yet, but i think replacing this new item with runeglaive is a bad idea.. there are many ap on-hit junglers like (diana, ekko, fizz, nidalee) that works fine with runeglaive. for example: with nidalee jungle, i would build > runeglaive, RoA, boots, and 3 defensive items (the build doesnt contain ludens).. now i have to builds somethin like (runic echoes, RoA, boots, LICH BANE, and 2 defensive items (the itemization forces me to buy extra 1 ap item instead of a defensive item. tl:dr, champion that i play works fine with runeglaive, but doesnt work fine with echo.. this kinda thing happened months ago with fiddlesticks when runeglaive released.. so instead of making these 2 types of ap junglers (ap on hit ones --- directly spell casters) suffer from this itemization, why dont they simply just keep both items available, so every ap jungler can have own item that works fine ? thats the main question i believe.
It felt pretty good on Nidalee in a bot game I played; she has a ton of mobility and casts a ton of spells, so it procs really, really often. Not sure about other on-hit AP junglers.
: Poppy Update Feedback Thread
Overall I like the update. It is a little reminiscent of the Sion update, where a champion that had this weird burst-y playstyle (especially with certain builds) gets changed into the tanky/bruiser character they were sort of meant to be. And like the Sion update, it's sad to see that playstyle go (it was ridiculously fun, emphasis on the ridiculous part), but it does seem healthier overall for the game. Here are some initial impressions from a bot game I played earlier: * Passive: I like the concept (Captain ~~America~~ Runeterra Poppy + Mjolnir skin rito plz. Thor's a girl now so it makes more sense). It didn't feel like there was a way to control where the shield lands (a la Draven); I was wondering if you played around with that idea/why you chose to go in the current direction. I agree with another user who said it's a bit unintuitive as to when you would want to get a shield; best case is you last hit a minion right before you go in, but then you lose a good portion of your damage. * I think it would be cool if it bounced a shorter distance but back towards Poppy (and she can pick it up if she crosses the landing spot before it lands, so she doesn't have to run backwards to get her shield if she E's onto the enemy immediately after her passive auto attack). Sort of how Illaoi's E encourages the opponent to stay and fight, Poppy landing her passive encourages the opponent to take a step forward to crush the shield, but also risks getting closer to Poppy. * Q: It's a very useful ability, but I found it a bit difficult to aim, especially after E. I wonder if maybe she could jump backwards a bit, so when she brings the hammer down, the hitbox covers the spot she was standing (and then she lands in the same spot). I also think it'd be easier to hit if the hitbox was a bit bigger, since the skill is on a slight delay (contrast with Malphite's E or Maokai's Q, for example). * W: Highlight of the kit, imo. Q is your bread-and-butter skill, but stopping dashes with your W is so incredibly satisfying. It's great for peeling, interrupting a targeted dash to give that Irelia/Wukong/XinZhao a face full of hammer, and just getting into the middle of a fight and preventing the enemy team from just dashing away to disengage. * E: Very similar if not identical to the old kit; still awesome. It's a bit more difficult to do short trades with how her Q works now, but I think that's more to do with how her Q works than her E. Perhaps if there was some interaction using Q directly after E that made the combo easier to pull off, similar to how Yasuo's Q changes if used with his E. * R: I'm kind of split on this. On one hand, it's amazing; it's a ton of fun to use, and just has that "wtf Poppy is ridiculous" feel, but in a different way. On the other hand, I feel like the use-cases (at least of a fully charged ult) are really niche; the ability has predictable results but in a really weird way (the hitbox is also very thin). I'm not sure if this is intentional, but it seems like the most common usage will be the instant cast, and the charged cast is just something you use once in a while to do things like deny teleports or something to help steal neutral objectives. Or just annoy your opponent. I'm interested to see how people use this ability * Overall feel: Again, she feels more like a bruiser/sort-of-juggernaut than the off-tank-pseudo-assassin she used to be. She can still put out an impressive amount of damage, but it felt like she fell off a bit in the later game (where she used to be more of a late-game carry before). * Visual: Beautiful; compliments to IronStylus (I think he was working on her?). Also props to the Lollipoppy splash artist (and all the splash artists; Blacksmith Poppy is particularly intense, all of them are amazing) * Audio: Love it
: 1. The Q has a hit radius around Poppy herself precisely for that reason (so you would still hit someone you stunned even if you aimed backwards). However you are right in that due to the abrupt movement in positioning aiming the Q precisely after the E is rather difficult. I'm not too sure how to resolve this, because the direction you would want to lay Q would differ each time. 2. There is a light (and sound) that concentrates on Poppy's buckler as it is to come online for this, tell me if it gets better with more playthroughs and you know what cues to look (and hear) for 3. BUG, will be fixed tomorrow 4. I'll look into that, thanks for the pointer!
> [{quoted}](name=RiotSolcrushed,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=iELz2g6E,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2015-11-24T22:23:20.178+0000) > > 1. The Q has a hit radius around Poppy herself precisely for that reason (so you would still hit someone you stunned even if you aimed backwards). However you are right in that due to the abrupt movement in positioning aiming the Q precisely after the E is rather difficult. I'm not too sure how to resolve this, because the direction you would want to lay Q would differ each time. What if the hit radius around Poppy is increased, sort of like how Maokai's Q works? It might not make visual sense, but it will make her E+Q a bit more consistent.
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