: > Repertoir, about the guardian angel changes, are we going to see a AP version of that? We actually tested an AP version of the item as well (literally had an item named AD GA in the shop for testing at the same time as AP GA) because my gut told me that was fair as well. However, after a few weeks of testing, people almost always preferred to just have Zhonya's, and fighting against champions that had both AP GA and Zhonya's wasn't particularly fun (and it was very possible), and so I came to the conclusion it's not something that AP champions need, despite how appealing it sounds. > Stoneplate looks cheap enough for support tanks to get. I'm sure someone like Leona would love it. It would be cool if some support tanks could pick it up in games where they had the money to afford it. > The Helm looks good, but I think it might be a little too strong against spell spammers. This is pretty much what the item is supposed to be good for. Might to _too_ strong against them, as you've suggested, but it's also possible it's instead too strong against non spammers. > I don't think you buffed cinderhulk enough. Needs something else. Very possible. Will definitely be wanting to see how Cinderhulk users are performing upon release (especially relative to their pre-patch performance and their lane tank counterparts), if nothing else.
TY for the response. I'm glad you guys at least tested an AP version of GA. Must have been a little weird to see two of them side by side. >It would be cool if some support tanks could pick it up in games where they had the money to afford it. I agree entirely. You could probably rush it after an eyestone item as a support. A second item is something you can usually complete if your team isn't losing all lanes. >This is pretty much what the item is supposed to be good for. Okay. Are these items intended for use against Kayle and teemo?
: Midseason Durability Feedback
Repertoir, about the guardian angel changes, are we going to see a AP version of that? Squishy AP champs could take the live version if they feel like they need to, but new version really doesn't offer them as much. Unless you are a hybrid champ like katarina of course. I hope this item doesn't work too well with her. Stoneplate looks cheap enough for support tanks to get. I'm sure someone like Leona would love it. The Helm looks good, but I think it might be a little too strong against spell spammers. I don't think you buffed cinderhulk enough. Needs something else. Soraka is going to love the changes to warmogs as she doesn't want to stack too much health to begin with and faster regen will help her a lot.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Pool Party Miss Fortune!
I think the hat is an issue in terms of perspective design. It looks fine from the front and would be good in a splash art, but the overhead PoV of the game means it's going to obscure her head and face too much. I mean based on the preview images you showed us alone, you can barely tell MF is wearing glasses because there's only a small angle you can see them from. Frankly the hat isn't interesting enough to block so much of her head and face.
: Hopefully there's enough of a tradeoff between building this item vs. building something like a Warmog's on her that will naturally balance out... but Soraka is... tricky given her extreme nature. I would love a world in which we could shift power from her base heal into other aspects of her kit so that her overall power level is similar - and then force her to decide via itemization which path she prefers to scale - where she wants to be more starcall / silence focused - or whether to double down on healing - but that's a personal opinion. :P
>I would love a world in which we could shift power from her base heal into other aspects of her kit so that her overall power level is similar - and then force her to decide via itemization which path she prefers to scale - where she wants to be more starcall / silence focused - or whether to double down on healing - but that's a personal opinion. :P I've had an idea in the past along those which I've wanted to propose, but I figured the devs don't want to hear our ideas, particularly if they are radical like making soraka choose between things like offense or defense. All I know is I really don't like support items, particularly on soraka. If you look on champion.gg her best common build is {{item:2049}} {{item:3158}} {{item:3190}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3742}}. That's not a support's build. That's a tank build because you need to build warmog+tank on soraka because of her bloody W health cost. Part of the reason she got reworked to begin with is riot didn't want her to be a tank and basically she's turned into a tank because her kit forces her to be one. With that in mind, I don't think these changed items will make it into soraka's kit only because she's a priority target who can't survive without building full tank right now. The low mobility, large target on your butt, and the fact you assist the enemy team get a kill on you every time you press W mandates it. I've been saying this on the main boards since the idea was announced by Soraka's rework has been fundamentally flawed ever since riot conceived of it. The real issue stems from the fact morello got the idea from a game where 2 healers, a frontline, and a midline were the meta. He five-finger homaged the idea from guild wars and admitted doing so. In LOL, soraka is by herself and you may not be able to count on your team acting as a frontline or midline for you depending on your elo or if you are a solo player or not. The only times you should even consider not building tank on soraka is if you are going for an AP glass cannon build (off meta, potentially trolling) or when you can count on your teammates for peel and there is no one on the enemy team who could get to you. In the first case you won't bother building a cheap-butt support item, in the second case you are one of the few people on a coordinated team or are duoing with a tanky jungle main who'll happily camp your lane and watch your butt in a team fight.
: Poppy Update Feedback Thread
I like most of her kit but I don't like the new passive, dunno what to say about the new ult, and I miss her AP scalings.
: We've done base stat adjustments to ensure her laning is still reasonable. If anything she's probably less of a lane bully than she used to be especially when being played by a non-expert MF.
One of the reasons people picked her though was to be a lane bully. Since you didn't post it in the OP, do you mind telling us what her role in the game will be now? What's her role early game? What is it late game? I mean the change really hurts her W's scaling off of AD and AS. ADCs in general are supposed to focus targets and impure shots was the only thing in her old kit that let her do the typical ADC job. If I need to focus a single target now, how do I do that?
: Miss Fortune PBE Feedback Thread
Love tap worries me. While I get the interaction intention for her Q, in the past impure shots was there to allow her to focus a target while her Q was more for bullying in the early game and occasional shenanigans. As someone who plays MF a good chunk of the time when I'm forced bot, I'm not sure I like it. It also feels like she loses any dueling potential with it. Instead of focusing a target, she can't really 1v1 anymore. It also screws what little jungling ability she had. In live, you can start W and clear well enough. This feels like it'll make her early jungle a complete chore at best. Out of curiosity, how does it work with her ult and with hurricane? Is she going to be forced to buy a hurricane now in order to keep procing her passive? Overall, this feels like a nerf and will make her clunky as well as immobile once she takes a little damage.
: I'd like to try that tomorrow when Kindred is available again. Although I have to say, bork and runaans seem like a rough first build since none of her abilities scale well with bork. I'm sure it'll be devastating when finally built, but it seems like a rough mountain to climb. It's almost like picking a champ who's ONLY good with Sated Devourer, if that makes sense. I'll try it.
Pants are dragon was saying that her abilities don't scale well with AD either. Since he's a jungle challenger who can play ADC I kind of took his word for that.
: But it IS infinite :/
It was capped at 8 stacks when I tested it. Also, after so many stacks, I noticed wolf didn't get hungry again.
: Kindred mana
Energy is for champs that riot kind of wants to have a shared CD for, but not quite. Basically: No resource - no gating Energy - short term gating Mana - long term gating
Rioter Comments
: Kindred Official Feedback Thread
Can we get a tool tip telling you that you've maxed your passive stacks, disable the selection aspect of the passive when you get to 8, or change it so it's got infinite scaling?
: > [{quoted}](name=Porotech,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=XtcLEuFI,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-07T17:00:46.442+0000) > > I see potential in a spell weaving build, however elise doesn't really have that playstyle yet nor does the mana costs encourage you to do so. I guess this is my problem, I like the potential it has, but it doesn't look like they are supporting it enough. As much as Riot talks about wanting to maintain a champion's identity or support a certain playstyle, it's odd that they suddenly make changes like this without considering such things (or so it seems). The strangest thing is that she's now _forced_ to buy a Rylai's and Liandry's if she wants to have anywhere near the same amount of damage with Neurotoxin as she does on Live (even though it doesn't currently apply spell effects, which I hope is just a bug). I've brought it up a number of times that Elise needs some kind of focus, gameplay wise, but apparently Riot think otherwise. Spiderlings are practically a non-factor at any point in the game, Spider Form _just_ gives access to more spells (other transformation champions, like Jayce, can go extended periods in each form and still be powerful), and unless Elise does her _entire_ combo perfectly, she can't really contribute much to a fight (unless she has 40% CDR). People dislike Elise because "she just spams Cocoon" (and because Runeglaive is now a thing), but it's not like she has much choice due to what her kit does; you have to be very patient and precise when playing her because you generally only get _one_ shot to make your move. I'm mostly fine with that playstyle because it feels very rewarding, but it means you have _nothing_ to fall back on if it fails (except _maybe_ waiting for a _10+_ second Cocoon/Rappel). _That's_ where they should implement the blade-weaving, not on a heavily gimped, but spammable Q. They should've tried lowering some of her (Live) base damages, primarily Volatile Spiderling, and lowering cooldowns a bit across the board to give her more of a mage feel before trying something weird like this.
I agree. Also they just nerfed the CD on her Q to 6 seconds. I don't think that helps aside from keeping her from spell weaving.
: did some math with Elise Q
>Elise is said to have an unclear lategame role In the past, riot admitting to having data showing that elise falls off in late game harder than anyone else. This seems to make her even weaker later.
: My problem is that there is no synergy with the new move. They put a dot on someone that doesn't stack, and neither Venomous Bite, or Skittering Frenzy/Spiderlings do any additional damage to targets that have an existing neurotoxin on them. They can't put in changes like this without adding synergistic gameplay to her spider form. It's just silly and honestly a shortsighted change. They buffed her stun, but now they are pulling her damage because she has a ton of utility in ganks. I think they should move her Q damage down (which they did) but add rewarding gameplay for going into Spider form and getting extra damage from Q or spiderlings attacking the target.
>They can't put in changes like this without adding synergistic gameplay to her spider form. It's just silly and honestly a shortsighted change. I partly agree with this. It doesn't feel like they are trying to make the human side better (this is a nerf atm). Letting her get a lot of spiderlings at a high mana cost doesn't seem very productive either. If this was something that would give me the option to stay human, I'd be fine with it. If this played into her spider form more, I'd be fine with it. As is, it's missing a key ingredient.
: A stacking mechanic would certainly help, the damage is pretty pitiful even with tons of AP. Don't know why they didn't just transfer the % current hp damage over to the DoT instead of making it flat damage. The mana cost is another big issue, Elise had mana problems to begin with and 80 mana on a level 1 Q is brutal and doesn't get much better even with a Seraph's Embrace. One solution would be to add a base damage on the initial hit of the spell (like Live Q) then add the DoT after it, that way there's at least some noticeable impact when you cast it. They could also re-add the % current health damage (lower than 8% though), but throw it onto Spiderlings' attacks, possibly only while Skittering Frenzy is active. Overall, I'm not a fan of the change though, it just feels bad in every way. Plus, Q isn't really a problem on Live. If anything, W's base damage and AP ratio could be lowered a bit and she'd have less 'free' power (275 base damage is pretty high), say -40 base damage at max rank and -10 or 15% on the AP ratio.
>The mana cost is another big issue, Elise had mana problems to begin with and 80 mana on a level 1 Q is brutal and doesn't get much better even with a Seraph's Embrace. Agreed. I had mana problems with her before and now she has a 1 second CD on a relatively low damage skill. My issue is trying to fit a mana item onto her because let's face it, after runeglaive, most people are probably going full tank on her. >One solution would be to add a base damage on the initial hit of the spell (like Live Q) then add the DoT after it, that way there's at least some noticeable impact when you cast it. They could also re-add the % current health damage (lower than 8% though), but throw it onto Spiderlings' attacks, possibly only while Skittering Frenzy is active. Yes a nice initial base damage with a %health dot would be cool. While I'm thinking about it, I think the CD is low so she can get a lot of spiderlings quickly. I'm not a huge fan of those guys. >Overall, I'm not a fan of the change though, it just feels bad in every way. I see potential in a spell weaving build, however elise doesn't really have that playstyle yet nor does the mana costs encourage you to do so. I guess this is my problem, I like the potential it has, but it doesn't look like they are supporting it enough.
: it doesn't stack with itself, also it doesn't proc {{item:3151}} {{item:3116}} barely worth using when you have no blue imo
It should proc Liandry's. If it doesn't that sounds like a bug. As for rylais... that's a good item for her (ap and tankiness) but her Q is now a dot so you don't get a good slow.
Rioter Comments
: Dead Man's Plate heading to Summoner's Rift on the PBE
: and aura cooldonw reduction rite ? oh how i miss soul shroud.
No, a health regen aura. Now if you want to get crazy with a sightstone idea the other night I was thinking about sightstone building out of {{item:3801}}+{{item:3070}}. The finished product would give you health, mana, health regen, and mana regen. As for the stacking bonus I was thinking either you get more health based on your max mana or your wards cover more area. The mana cap upgrade into rss would give your wards true vision out to about half their distance.
: academy ahri suggestion
While I like it as it is, I wouldn't mind if her hair was more orange or her tails were more red.
: It's meant to be an overall nerf - so this effect is intended. However, it reduces the total damage taken from a critical strike by 10% - so a 250% attack goes to 225% not 240%.
I'm fine with the overall nerf since it's a little cheaper and easier for tanky supports and junglers to afford. However it seems like the new passive is just enough to cover for the nerf on crits as you are less tanky overall now. I was hoping for something a little more substantial. Something that says this is a great item if the ADC is building a lot of crits, not so great if they aren't. The way I'm thinking about it is if you do the ADC pass next, you can set this item up to give ADCs a little more reactive optimization as all ADCs need about the same 5-6 items. In addition it would give tanks a go to item for anti-crits that loses luster if the ADC is building for AS/AD.
: While I do like odd use cases for items - we'd like to shift towards a world where Aegis is more optional overall. If there are holes in support itemization - attaching them to other less powerful effects to boost the number of things they can do would likely be a better direction.
Okay, cool. So perhaps we could see {{item:3801}} + 200 = {{item:2049}} with an aura? ;)
: > the change to its passive, "AURA Legion", is going to affect and too? Or are the HP regen and MR aura nerfed only on the Aegis? Yes - any item that has the Aegis aura will be nerfed accordingly. Let me update the note.
Is there a reason that supports can't heal allies indirectly anymore?
: Core Defense Items Pass [5.16]
Xypherous, I think Omen's crit defense is a little bit on the weak side considering it's losing health and armor and the person murdering you with crits likely has an IE. I'd like to see 15%-25% reduction in crit damage. Maybe make it just enough to make an ADC consider building AD/AS more.
: With the introduction of some new items catered toward juggernauts, we expect it to be pretty common for Garen to hit ~250 AD by end game.
Okay so he's losing 32 base but gaining ~125 damage and getting more tics out of it? That seems good on paper.
: Actually Garen has a decent Jungle. He just has the worst ganks in the world. He's like a worse Shyvana essentially. This change will just encourage counterjungling and taking krugs when on the top side. The nerf is a bit much in laning since you have to rank it last since garen has to rank E first for damage and Q second for the Move speed. Overall though It wouldn't be too bad. At least I don't think. Although it will suck being level 18 and still have to farm for like 5 minutes before getting the full armor/magic resist. If it's make Garen too weak it'll probably be adjusted. To be honest, I'd rather have the tenacity than the armor/mr since Garen builds full tank anyways. It is a bit silly the W nerf now that I really think about it. The W is suppose to give a bit of extra tankiness for the Garen who really needs to build a bit more damagey than other champions but now with the ult passive, there's really no need to build anything but tank and a BC, which I'm guessing most people already did, meaning that the bonus armor/mr is just a bit of extra tankiness that no one will really notice, especially in a late game context.
I did not know Garen could jungle.
: His passive has unique positions on all maps.
: New Items - Sterak's Gage and Titanic Hydra
Axes, does the on hit bonus damage passive on the new hydra work on ranged champs? I could see someone like urgot getting it and hurricane and building a bit of health. Maybe go hurricane, frozen mallet, and Titanic Hydra in a tanky kite build.
: Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread
The W nerf is going to hurt a bit. Yes he can start stacking it sooner, but it'll take longer. He's also not a jungler so I don't see him getting many stacks that way. In the end, he'll get a bit less overall. As for E, how much AD are you guys expecting him to build during a game? Usually he gets a BC and that's about it. The more tics is nice though.
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
About the passive - what about other maps? ARAM, TT, and Dominion will need those things too or Skarner will be without a passive?
: > To me, that is where the flaw existed in hybrid itemization design. I don't think any special consideration should be given to these items just for being hybrid. The catch should be that they are good only if you can actually use all of the stats on them, but if not then you should be shooting yourself in the foot because the item should not be efficient for those champions. If they're not better than other items - why would you buy them as a hybrid? Because they exist? Furthermore - if this item is good on you and not particularly efficient - what does that say about your AD or AP ratios and your ability to use other items? We could easily make a 1800 gold item that gave 40 AP and 25 AD. For this item to be equivalent to 80 AP or 50 AD - your AP and AD ratios have to **be equal to other character's high AD and AP ratios** innately. Which means that you scale equally well with this item as any other item - regardless of whether it had AD or AP. Which then boils down to - why do you purchase the hybrid item to begin with? In what way is it stronger than others? Because if it provides you a non-stat but still a damage spike - it is guaranteed that you will be balanced around said spike and the same damage effects would occur. You can sidestep this dilemma by stating that hybrid champions would buy this to get access to some other form of utility or sideways benefit that the other items don't provide. However, in this world - hybrid champions can already use literally **every item** in the game outside of penetration items well. Penetration items don't carry a ton of utility - due to their natural advantage of murdering squishy targets. Penetration is also a form of damage spike which I'll address later. Going back to this hybrid item existing as a form of utility - They can already pick and choose the best actives and passives out of the categories - so then it wraps straight back to - why does this need to exist? Why isn't the strength of a hybrid champion already the ability to pick the best items in every conceivable category and use them well? Compound this with the damage efficiency curves - You'll want to also have a look at the multiplicative items in AD and AP. AD has Crit, AS and Lifesteal - as well as other neat things like Hydra. AP has Deathcap as well as other items with AP Ratios on them. Therefore - what you'll tend to see is that, because other paths have **delayed multiplicative synergies** to them - that usually going straight down AD or AP will be highly preferable to getting a mix of the two statistics - due to the multiplicative power of other items in their ecosystem. The real crux of this problem comes down to the fact that skills have linear - rather than exponential ratios. Thus - unless the hybrid item is primarily utility centric - it's not going to have a strong place in either of these builds - because a build full of hybrids with no late multipliers is going to suck - that's not even getting into the problem of defending against hybrid champions innately sucks in the mid-game. You could try to solve this by giving all hybrid characters scaling AD or AP ratios - but again - that lowers their midgame and early-game power spike potential dramatically as in the current case. > In the late game, tanks are likely to have ~130 magic resist and ~180 armor (at least, I always tend to have more armor than MR). At that point, hybrid itemization isn't as useful because you have no way to effectively cut through the resistance of your opponent. This heavily presumes that the role of hybrid is to be able to cleanup and sweep through teams. This assumes that hybrid characters end up as carry classes - rather than either Assassin or Utility classes. But let's brush that aside, while it is true that your damage potential falls off - you ignore the fact that you've been incredibly hard to itemize up till now - as all your opponent's purchases have had half effect on lowering your damage thus far. Then you introduce guaranteed late game damage for these characters - opponents' itemization options will be inefficient in the early, middle or late game. Since you are most likely guaranteed a late game and early purchases have minimal effects - I'm not sure what the effects that would have - but I would assume that you're either going to keep a poor late game - or your mid-game will have to be nerfed to compensate for the fact that you'll never really fall off in the damage curve. (Which then brings you back to exactly the same outcome as introducing a high spike item and lowered ratios would do.) **Edit:** Note that there is actually a fairly reasonable answer to the 'why should hybrid characters get a special utility that is only good on them' than other characters - if their kits are so constrained that they need a specific hybrid utility function to be able to function. This becomes simply a analogue to the damage case - just in utility.
>Which then boils down to - why do you purchase the hybrid item to begin with? I think it's less about the raw stats (which it needs) and more about hey this item gives me other passive or active abilities I can make use off. Gunblade lets you heal. In theory you can heal with your spells, but spell vamp needs love even after the change probably. TF gives you something of everything. I think if you want a hybrid item to work it has to offer you things that a non-hybrid might live with for a cost. It's like VI getting TF. She's got no AP ratios at all so that's wasted on her. However everything else the item offers is great on her (even the spell blade passive). Considering there are other niche items that work well on a select few champs and are okay on others, a hybrid item should probably be something that's okay on AP or AD champs but meant for people who've got both scalings. >However, in this world - hybrid champions can already use literally every item in the game outside of penetration items well. Penetration items don't carry a ton of utility - due to their natural advantage of murdering squishy targets. Penetration is also a form of damage spike which I'll address later. A good hybrid item would probably be half last whisper and half voidstaff. 50 AD, 80 AP, then give it 20% armor and magic pen. Not great, but if your champ deals a lot of both types of damage something you'd consider of the other ones because you can't get the other pen items and this would benefit you more across the board. This would also help to fix your late multiplier issue as long as its pen passive is unique.
: RP Granted
Why not let every match that gives you IP give you 1/10th that amount in RP on the PBE? Wouldn't that solve your problems in the long run and encourage people to play here more?
: To be perfectly honest - I don't work on live balance. I know we do on occasion - but there are so many things that get organically balanced around each other over time that root cause of buff / nerf tends to fade very very quickly with patches.
Okay. While I understand that, a lot of players (particularly champ X mains) are very much in tune to why a buff or a nerf came about for their favorite champions and have a bit more memory for that things.
: Wait.. how are you getting 60 AP lost on Runeglaive + New Deathcap? Deathcap is still at 120 AP - hence: (120 + 40) * 1.35 = 216. vs. (120 + 80) * 1.3 = 260. It should be 216 vs. 260 - in terms of net AP and Runeglaive has a quasi Lich Bane built right into it which should make up the difference pretty easily - unless your Fiddlesticks and have absolutely zero interest in autoattacking whatsoever. Even AP Amumu cares about autoattacking because 25 MR shred is INSANE.
This was before I noticed the update on the original post. ;) Runeglaive has another issue though in that your AA's require spells to proc the spell blade. If I'm playing eve and kiting with my Q, I may not be AAing that much. If I'm human elise, my spells are on a longer cooldown so she isn't quite a spammer. Jungle Nidalee... may like the change, but she's going to feel the costs. D-cap and void staff are going up in cost and the few AP junglers are going to feel that more than mid-laners. Yes it's only 400 more GP total for two items but seeing as they are core on all AP champs, the ones in the lanes that don't have as much money are going to feel that pinch more. I mean yes you are trying to add some variety to builds, but all AP damage dealers need D-cap and Void staff. That's not going away. So jungle Eve and Nidalee or support Zyra, Annie, Soraka or Sona are going to feel that pinch more.
: That seems to be a common point of confusion. Let me make the original post clearer - as if you're confused, there's probably a lot of other people confused too. Thanks for ze input. :D
Thank you. Since everything else was going to 100AP, it seemed only natural to think D-cap was getting dropped as well.
: Quick questino, how are you getting 405 from the DCap/Zhonya's/Luden's Combo? (100 + 100 + 120) * 1.35 = 432. This combination is also 200 gold cheaper total - which is roughly 10 AP~ or 13.5 after deathcap. Which puts it at 450 vs. 468. It's still an overall nerf (mainly because - yes, this is a Luden's nerf.) - but the more AP you have from other sources, like runes and masteries - the smaller the gap becomes overall. The gap shrinks or reverses if your build included any of the following items: Nashor's Tooth, Liandry's Torment, Rod of Ages or AAAA.
I counted D-cap as a 100 AP item, I guess I assumed it was getting nerfed as well. BTW, as an Ahri main I don't get any of those items usually. I'd love to get Nashor's on her but I think she needs the mobility+mana of LB more if I want to buff auto attacks. I don't get Liandry's on her either as you rarely have room in your build for it. Ahri needs: boots, dcap, ludens, voidstaff, and probably a mana/cdr item (maybe both if you suck at mana management). There's just no room in her build for other stuff. It's kind of like the ADCs where they all get the same 6 items because they need those 6. Ahri is kind of the same way.
: [5.13] Core AP Items Pass
Xypherous a question about supports. Some AP supports if fed might get an AP item or two. Since the big AP items are getting nerfed, this is going to be nerfing them, and they tend not to have the money that an AP mid can afford. I guess the same goes for the few junglers that can go AP: aren't they really getting screwed with the loss of magus and now the loss of raw AP from the core AP items? Runeglaive is 40 AP lost. Now something like ludens (I'd consider that on Eve) is losing another 20. Elise gets zhonya's so there's another 20 AP lost for her.
: To be fair, it might not be in the long run. However, currently Luden's is pretty much a giant AP ratio on a stick for your spells - and so I want to see if some kind of identity for it can exist with its current model. I will admit, Luden's is a concept I have to be particularly careful around - since I was fairly fond of the DFG design. The thing that I'm focused on amplifying current patterns rather than remaking them - as we've seen far too little of their actual identities to know what is particularly problematic (it's all been hidden under a giant burst AP damage blanket.)
Instead of AoE damage, Luden's could give extra poke to whoever you hit at full charge if you need to scale it back and keep it for poke champs/assassins.
: > How do you feel these changes will affect Cassiopeia and Veigar? Cassie is already scary - and will likely be scarier. > WoTA It's less so pushing WoTA into being a more general buy as not requiring secondary items along with WoTA to make it function. Like, currently with WoTA - you pretty much need a Void Staff eventually, otherwise WoTA stops functioning entirely in fights due to the MR penalty. It's trying to reduce how many items WoTA locks you into, etc. > Do you think a perpetual 40% slow, like what Cassiopeia can do, will be agonizing to deal with? We'll actually be evaluating slow rules soon as we've been increasingly unhappy with them but also feel like we're unable to put any slows of significance because of the stacked case. > Rage Blade and Hextech Gunblade They don't fit in currently at the moment. Just doing a pass on Core AP.
The problem with WotA is if you do any AoE at all, it especially sucks. I mean champs with a mana cost are kind of pushed away from it because you lose a lot of damage and in return you are going to want to make use of those heals which are sub-par when your skills are AoE. So a big loss of damage for little to no heal kid of sucks. I'm only bringing this up because the sustain from life steal is free while most AP champs need to burn mana for a heal. This is also why we can't have AP junglers so much: AP champs have a weakness when it comes to auto attacks and jungling needs auto attacks, particularly in your first clear or two. So if you've got people thinking: I'm losing damage and burning mana for healing that's not worth, I'm going to ignore this item and build something else.
: Already strong champions that are buffed with these changes: Rumble Cass Vlad Kog Ekko Champs to look out for with these changes: Velkoz Swain Ahri Karma Anivia Honourable Mentions: Mordekaiser Karthus Malzahar Corki Singed [EDIT] Teemo Zyra - Specifically didn't add Zyra because in mid lane she's not really viable, and as support she's only good in solo Q. Deserves to be on the list though.
Zyra is a viable midlaner, people just forgot about her.
: Yeah - I'd like to watch this for a while. I have the levers to tune the item if I need to because I can easily adjust the slow percentages (or most likely, adjust the durations). As far as the abuse cases - that's definitely true but there's some changes to the slow system that made me more confidence to basically buff the hell out of the item.
Speaking of levers and items, do you guys remember which champs you nerfed because of item X,Y, or Z so you can unnerf them now that those items are being changes?
: [5.13] Core AP Items Pass
Xypherous, I'm worried about how is this going to effect overall damage at various points in the game (say at half build and at full build) and how much more is our mana costs per damage on mana champs going to be. Mana seems weaker this season so this feels like this is going to hurt mages more in that first you are getting less AP from your big items and second, the damage you do is going to cost more relatively as mana costs are staying the same and damage is going down (it seems). Example, let's say you rush the 3 main NLR items: dcap, zhonya's, and luden's. Before you'd get 468 AP and now you'd get 405. A full build with 5 NLR items gets you 675 AP, but no voidstaff. Compare that two the present 3+rylai's plus void staff and you'd get 689 AP, plus that big chunk of MR ignoring from the void staff. I think mages are getting screwed on this, particularly come late game.
: I have some thoughts in this space - but I wanted to do an isolated Core AP pass. I do have some ideas for Gunblade though. I'd remove the lifesteal and spellvamp and essentially convert to a global damage steal from all sources of damage - which I think fits better the concept of Gunblade entirely. So like No Lifesteal No Spellvamp Unique Passive: You heal 12% of the damage from ALL sources of damage you deal, including items. Which creates some interesting synergizes with characters with strong on-hit magic damage and procs.
>Unique Passive: You heal 12% of the damage from ALL sources of damage you deal, including items. This would be interesting overall. Dunno if it would heal more or less overall though. Sustain is weird in that you either have too little for it to be worth or so much it's a problem for counterplay.
: new ap item available for testing soon!
If Soraka, nami, or Sona bought this, should we see their heals proc this item? It'd be cool of soraka could use this for a bigger ult.
: new ap item available for testing soon!
If I may be so bold, who is this item meant for? If riot was going to add this to a champ's recommended kits, which champs would they do so for?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Let me try to explain Dauntless a bit better. It's the antithesis of Championship. So, Championship Shyvana celebrates the end of the season, Dauntless Ahri is celebrating the start of the season. :] Glad you like her!
Katey, how well is Dauntless going to work on male characters though? If the primary colors for the skin are silver, black, and pink to go against silver, gold, blue... well there's not a lot of male characters that can pull off pink. Look at taric, he's got one skin with pink in it and suddenly he's *fabulous* and everyone jokes about him because of it.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Challenger Ahri!
1. I like the model 2. I like the theme (seems anime) 3. Her ponytail needs to be bigger/more pronounced 4. I don't like the grey/pink coloration because that kind of steps on Popstar Ahri a little. It's not bad, but I don't think the same color theme 2 skins in a row is a great idea. 5. Her having white hair doesn't show up too well when you are looking at it from the back (matches her top too closely) 6. The outgoing Q has a pink-black trail, but the return doesn't. This feels kind of off. 7. Overall, I like the pink particle colors on her skills.
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Porotech

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