: Even if you CC fiddle he will have access to his W in a couple seconds...I fail to see how this is a nerf....and I had a real shit time playing against him. (as udyr).
You do know before hand Fiddlesticks Drain was on a longer cd early and late game it was on a shorter cd. If you got at least half or more of his Drain off it was on a lesser cd. Now it is flipped. Now its up earlier early game while later late game. Fiddlesticks drain on live currently not pbe is up every 1 sec if you get it off at max duration and if you have CDR it would be up before you even finish it. thats why its a nerf. Udyr Shits on Fiddlesticks. You can stun him in bear stance, reduce your damage take with turtle and you can even qss his fear. On LIVE you can qss his Drain as well. If you lost to Fiddlesticks with Udyr You are just bad tbh. Udyr counters Fiddlesticks hard unless you spooked you with his ult in which he can solo you in which he had it warded and you didn't clear it with sweeper/pink or Raptors. Udyr can even just out run Fiddlesticks even with the 1.5s move speed buff Fiddle has now. {{summoner:14}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3123}} are summoner/items you can buy/pick to even cut fiddlesticks self healing. {{champion:55}} {{champion:110}} can also apply Grievous wounds. Stunning Fiddlesticks in which his Drain on pbe will be up in 3 secs or slightly sooner with cdr (CDR on Fid = no damage btw) Is enough time for Udyr to slay him. Not to mention mana regeneration is almost dead so Fiddlesticks can't keep Casting Drain over and over.
: if anything, you have more time to fight it than you do on live, where the CD goes off while he's channeling drain.
His CD on Live for W is 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 seconds long which start at W cast. His W can last up to 5 seconds if it is not broken/cancelled. If you are able to always get the full drain duration off the CD is actually 5 / 4 / 3 / 2 / 1 seconds long. If broken/cancelled its would generally be on a longer cd if broken about before 3 seconds in of casting. Fiddlesticks is a stationary target where 2 of his most important damaging abilities are negated if he is CC'ed or channel is broken by what ever means.
: Personally I found playing against him to be a nightmare. the W cooldown is too low in my opinion; with even a little CDR he will always have access to it which feels horrible to play against.
before hand Fiddlesticks drain was up sooner mid and late game if you got it maxed and were able to get the full Drain duration off to the point it was on a 1 sec cd. Be proud you are breaking Fiddlesticks drain sooner to where it is up sooner and he is still losing out on damage. With 45% cdr its not even a 1.5 second cool down from 3 seconds as that would be 50% cdr and you can't go above 40% +5% with mastery. With {{item:3116}} getting fiddlesticks full Drain duration off was never a problem and it still isn't. Its when he gets cced that changes things. In a sense the W change is a nerf to Fiddlestick players who had no issues getting the full drain off but a buff for weaker Fiddlestick players who were unable to.
: > MR reduction aura This was removed a long time ago. live functionality is MR shred on spell hit, not aura. Internal feedback has been slight power positive on Fiddlesticks ( including long time players). I dunno, its hard to feel the passive until you've tried it yourself. His clear is slightly faster, he loves the Abyssal and Zhonyas both having CDR on them, and the movespeed is quite impactful in the risks he can take throughout the majority of the game (less impactful late game where he often needs to zhonyas immediately). Regardless if he ends up weaker than we want him, its not as if buffing him is particularly difficult task.
As someone who loves Fiddlesticks and scarecrows in general who started playing this game because of him. He needs a new passive but I don't like his new passive. In fact I'd honestly expected it to synergize with his kit and empower his kit and have something to deal with Fear/crows and the Scythe his lore so greatly talks about. The move speed does nothing for him that Any fiddlesticks player couldn't already play around with. I could have took 3.0/4.5 move speed quints and be fine with the move speed out of combat mastery if I needed speed. Im going to go in to These changes pretty hard because this is the champion that will make a break my stay on League that Skarner almost caused me to leave if Fiddlesticks wasn't still here. I would also check in to Fiddlesticks auto attack after W, it seems a bit slow starting up after his W finishes. It doesn't feel very smooth. Pros * Passive - gets to camps slightly faster after clearing one if you stood still. Help reposition your self if you didn't have to immediately {{item:3157}} helps chase foes down slightly if they escape your W range to....uh auto attack them? Evade quick skill shots({{champion:76}} spear or {{champion:64}} Q) if you were standing still draining for example. Thats honestly not bad but cons. * W - Is up sooner early game wise if you got the full duration off and up sooner at all stages in the game if you didn't get The most of the full duration off. * E - Straight up buff to his clear with 2 extra bounces and helps to clear the more threatening targets you drain with it going for the Drained target every other hit. * R - QOL Cons * Passive reduces his damage and allies AP damage at all stages in the game and with items like {{item:3157}} getting hard nerf losing 30 AP and with Runic echoes barely giving AP to Fiddlesticks he is gonna be dealing less damage all game besides to jungle creeps early with his E. You never needed this awkward move speed buff to evade skill shots or reposition because Better Fiddlesticks Players were already able to play around to With his kit. Buying {{item:3116}} is all you need to keep targets around when you ult and reposition your self. * CDR on fiddlesticks was never that great it was just a nice thing to have and still thats all it is. He doesn't exactly have a "hey I'm going to spam my abilities for massive damage" >... he loves the Abyssal and Zhonyas both having CDR on them * CDR for some reason is being used like "hey its pretty good on him" how so? because you increased the CD on his W making it a longer cooldown if good Fiddlestick players were already able to get the full duration of the W drain off bringing it to 1 sec but now its 3secs long without cdr? His ult is up sooner which is nice but his {{item:3157}} is up later with less damage so where is the advantage with that? * Q straight up nerf where the move speed he needs will end up having to be used to not reposition but cast Terrify on the enemies just out of range. He still has a issue where feared targets are not immediately running away they are for about 1/4th of a sec running towards Fiddlesticks btw. When I fear Yi I need the broken champ to run far away as possible when he out heals my low damage when Fiddlesticks should be doing that not Yi. * W - Its a nerf to his mid and late game if you were already able to get the max duration of his drain off. He will have to wait at least 3 secs instead of 1 sec with 0 cdr but being forced to get cdr with items like Zhonya it won't be to big. * {{item:3157}} lost 30 AP for 10 cdr, active was increased to 120s from 90s which is essential to his ult. Its on a 2 minute CD now thx. * {{item:3001}} loses 10 ap for 10 mr gains 10% cdr - scaling Aura, which means less damage early * {{item:1410}} was nerfed beforehand without ever compensating Fiddlesticks because Udyr/etc was buying the item and being op. You are honestly better as Fiddlesticks not buying the item and buying {{item:3285}} it will give you more AP and make up for the loss of AP from {{item:3157}} and give you Move speed that was nerfed from {{item:1410}} I played Fiddlesticks on the pbe. I barely noticed the move speed. I only notice clearing camps faster with his E. Late game the E did nothing in the jungle a late game fiddlesticks couldn't have already done with E - 5 bounce + drain. I also felt like I was never dealing any damage. With {{item:3157}} losing so much AP and no -10 MR passive Tanks just ate his drain or WW just out healed my damage like it was nothing. I had to use my entire kit on bots I out leveled and out farmed when I shouldn't have needed to. I tried it again by buying items that actually give noticeable AP and problem was solved. Fiddlesticks deals almost no damage if you go for {{item:3157}} {{item:1410}} You will end having to use ult and all just to kill them which won't work when someone builds MR. As for players. Its unreliable with its horrible ping and bad players in general cramping it but Fiddlesticks is doing the same job but less effectively because he is dealing less damage at all stages in the game if he builds{{item:3157}} {{item:1410}} If fiddlesticks ever need to move himself You guys just added in hextech Fireball haduken dash thing. That just seems counter intuitive. You add an item so AP mages can reposition them self then a passive for Fiddlesticks to do the same thing? I am sorry I may be coming off as an ass but I love this champion and I am not happy with the changes. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/j6TAZz5f-fiddlesticks-needs-to-be-changed
: Idd, new/reworked champions are also more likely to have bugs in featured game modes, or have weird interactions.
> [{quoted}](name=Metal Pagan,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=18jkhGA3,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-12-02T08:08:41.417+0000) > > Idd, new/reworked champions are also more likely to have bugs in featured game modes, or have weird interactions. currently she doesn't have a Mundo bug. She did have that taunt thing.
: Let me put it differently... Banning a champion clearly demonstrates that there is an issue with it. As the ban rate gets higher, it conveys that so does the issue's magnitude. For instance, Dr. Mundo is permabanned. This means that there is an issue with him that is completely unreasonable (like, for instance, dealing 300 magic damage at level 1 with Qs). There is no real need to test Dr. Mundo further since he shouldn't go live with the current issue. Including Dr. Mundo in a game would inherently make the tests inadequate for all 10 champions because the game's state is skewed by Dr. Mundo's hypothetical bug. So basically, it's much more reasonable to ask "Why is Poppy permabanned?" (just like Graves and Darius were prior to their releases), than it is to as to "stop banning Poppy". There has to be a reason why it's banned anyway, and discussing the issue will not only help devs understand it better, but it will also raise awareness to those who weren't banning her, or allow those who were banning her to understand why their concerns aren't valid. Personally, I don't ban Poppy becaue I consider she's one of the worst champions on the PBE right now.
> [{quoted}](name=Maechen,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=18jkhGA3,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-30T17:07:47.489+0000) > > Let me put it differently... Banning a champion clearly demonstrates that there is an issue with it. As the ban rate gets higher, it conveys that so does the issue's magnitude. > > For instance, Dr. Mundo is permabanned. This means that there is an issue with him that is completely unreasonable (like, for instance, dealing 300 magic damage at level 1 with Qs). There is no real need to test Dr. Mundo further since he shouldn't go live with the current issue. Including Dr. Mundo in a game would inherently make the tests inadequate for all 10 champions because the game's state is skewed by Dr. Mundo's hypothetical bug. > > So basically, it's much more reasonable to ask "Why is Poppy permabanned?" (just like Graves and Darius were prior to their releases), than it is to as to "stop banning Poppy". There has to be a reason why it's banned anyway, and discussing the issue will not only help devs understand it better, but it will also raise awareness to those who weren't banning her, or allow those who were banning her to understand why their concerns aren't valid. > > Personally, I don't ban Poppy becaue I consider she's one of the worst champions on the PBE right now. Yeah but Fiorra and Darius though are still pretty good especially on SR. the dominate game mode. Their nerfs are no where in sight. Unless you mean the slap on the wrist they got.
: Dude, stop being a baby. The main reason why most people play draft pick is to ban champions they don't want to play against. If they don't wish to play against Poppy they have the right to ban her. It's as simple as that.
Can you stop whining about me whining please.
: Yes but its only on pbe that this is happening, tested on live and its prioritizing champions over minions, but on pbe its rarely hitting champions even if they have not been hit. also when i launch my e on a champion it simply wont hit anyone else, just that person.
> [{quoted}](name=Dalanin,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=VU3pEkkY,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-30T01:31:33.258+0000) > > Yes but its only on pbe that this is happening, tested on live and its prioritizing champions over minions, but on pbe its rarely hitting champions even if they have not been hit. > > also when i launch my e on a champion it simply wont hit anyone else, just that person. Either a bug or a Nija nerf. Spaghetti coding perhaps?
: Is the PBE really more Toxic than the Live server?
Some people get really butthurt. Had a game last night with a player where he moaned and whined the whole game about his team being trash and im like dude its a normal pbe game. On another game a player on my team bitched about a player on the enemy team playing Katarina on the Poro king mode..."you had to pick Katarina" "Shes so op". IMO the pbe isn't meant to have fun while you can but its goal is for testing champions to determine if one is too strong, too weak, Bugs occurred or the quality of skins needing tuning.
: I'll say the same thing I said with Graves: If a champion is permabanned, then there is an issue with it that requires fixing. At that point, letting her into the game will corrupt all other data because of her influence on it. It could be because she's causing a bugsplat, or maybe she's simply bugged, maybe she's OP or UP... but Poppy's not the only thing to be tested and if banning Poppy not only make you testing more enjoyable, but also more productive, then there's no reason not to ban her.
> [{quoted}](name=Maechen,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=18jkhGA3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-29T16:41:17.841+0000) > > I'll say the same thing I said with Graves: If a champion is permabanned, then there is an issue with it that requires fixing. At that point, letting her into the game will corrupt all other data because of her influence on it. It could be because she's causing a bugsplat, or maybe she's simply bugged, maybe she's OP or UP... but Poppy's not the only thing to be tested and if banning Poppy not only make you testing more enjoyable, but also more productive, then there's no reason not to ban her. Poppy currently is one of the big reasons why her being tested imo Deserves Priority such as other reworks. Yeah we got skins and other bugs or issues or the testing of Tweaks to certain champions like Skarners slight R nerf/etc. Banning champions that require testing is inadequate on the PBE.
Rioter Comments
: or you could dodge the very easy to dodge and highly predictable skillshot
> [{quoted}](name=The Clap,realm=PBE,application-id=A4D2003433C8FCD715185A7264A9CC6FDFAD7FEF,discussion-id=bfIjP6uN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-28T21:30:25.218+0000) > > or you could dodge the very easy to dodge and highly predictable skillshot Its still doing to much damage. With such a low cd and because Mundo is Mundo he can walk on top of you and throw cleavers point blank because hes Mundo.
: Fiddlesticks
It prioritizes targets that haven't been hit yet by his E and normally the closest targets far as I know of regardless of champions and minions/etc Not sure about the fiddle ult. Last time I played him after you finished the channel you can move and still cast spells.

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