: Runes Reforged PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread
This is a general feedback on healer support runes. Last night, I tried out various ways to create a healer/shielder support rune page (for Soraka, Janna, and Lulu), and I found the choices to be lackluster. Starting with the good, "supportish" runes are spread between the Sorcery, Resolve, and Inspiration tabs, so there is some initial choice of which two of the tabs you're going to pick (I finally chose Sorcery/Resolve). Also good is the "Summon Aery" rune, which can be used both for shielding and for harassment in lane and has the unique mechanic of having its cooldown essentially controlled by how well and quickly you can pick Aery back up during a fight. Otherwise, though, the choices were both limited and bland - usually there was only one choice in each row that could apply and they were relatively minor and unimaginative - reduce a cooldown here, increase healing a little bit there. There wasn't anything that would change the character of the healer with new substantial effects. Even Windspeaker's Blessing right now has the effect of increasing armor and magic resistance on heals and shields. How about a choice about whether to increase damage, defense, or utility when you heal or shield someone? Admittedly, I don't have the experience or imagination to come up with whole new creative paths for the healer/supports, so this is mostly a "here's the problem, you go solve it" post. But I hope you can look at the rune page trees and see if you can create, say, two different {{champion:16}} rune pages that are effective and yet play significantly different from one another. If you find, as I did, that you really can't, I hope that some more effective and differentiated choices can be added in the future. (In contrast, when I created a rune page for an on-hit lulu build, I got excited by all of the choices I had to work with balancing offense, mobility, sustain, etc.).
: > [{quoted}](name=MungoGeri,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=TsgVIzcf,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2017-10-18T07:47:20.697+0000) > > I have feedback on general balance. Even the tankiest tank can't take that much damage that is dealt at close range. The bots have so much health and armor and MR that assassins are worthless. ADC's are a little better, since they can fight at a distance, but it's still tough since they're squishy. The only really useful characters are waveclear characters like {{champion:115}} who can throw stuff at a distance and kill off minion waves to slow down the bots. Somehow, you need to make other kinds of characters useful. Maybe have a global doubling of bonus armor and MR, so if you actually invest in them, they're useful? > > Also, I don't understand what the red shield symbols that randomly appear on jungle camps is for. thing is you usually avoid directly fighting doombots in laning phase
You have to get kills somehow. But anyway, I'm not sure how your comment addresses what I'm saying. After the "laning phase" where the doombots start grouping up, as I said above, tanks and assassins are completely worthless. ADC's are marginal. Waveclear chars really are the best. To make the mode more fun, there needs to be something to make other characters more useful. Maybe decrease the damage of doombots when the champion is in melee range? Or, like I said, double bonus armor and MR, so that if you spend the money on those, they might be able to let you survive more than a couple seconds.
: Doom Bots available for testing!
I have feedback on general balance. Even the tankiest tank can't take that much damage that is dealt at close range. The bots have so much health and armor and MR that assassins are worthless. ADC's are a little better, since they can fight at a distance, but it's still tough since they're squishy. The only really useful characters are waveclear characters like {{champion:115}} who can throw stuff at a distance and kill off minion waves to slow down the bots. Somehow, you need to make other kinds of characters useful. Maybe have a global doubling of bonus armor and MR, so if you actually invest in them, they're useful? Also, I don't understand what the red shield symbols that randomly appear on jungle camps is for.
: Runes Reforged and Rune Page Limits Testing
Regarding the "Legends: Bloodline" rune, the description was confusing for me at first. I understand now that takedowns on monsters "earn progress toward Legend stacks," but when I first picked it and tried it out in the jungle, I thought I would get a stack from every monster camp. I thought the idea of 8% life steal from little more than a jungle clear would more than a little overpowered. However, could you make the in-game interface show the progress more explicitly. When I was playing and trying to figure out how the rune worked, I was having a devil of a time trying to figure out how and when I was getting stacks. If there was some kind of indicator showing the progress for that rune, it would be very helpful. Thanks! Alternatively, you could reveal how much progress you get from different kinds of kills. How much is a dragon worth compared to a minion, for example? EDIT: I now see the little rune stat page at the bottom of the screen. On the one hand, I feel silly that I didn't know about that. It does exactly what I needed. On the other hand, hopefully this acts as reasonable feedback that perhaps there should be a tooltip or something that emphasizes that little rune stat page.
Rioter Comments
: I really don't get why people would still preffer blind pick over draft. There's a whole new system for draft and it's more time-efficient than ever. There's still this chaos in blind pick where everyone spams bot/top/mid/jungle/etc to get their role, then there's a bunch of instalockers, there are mirror matches and you have no idea what you're going to play against. I very much preffer getting a role of prefference and looking to practice certain matchups rather than this chaos.
It's because the queue times are long on the other mode. It's a destructive cycle. Besides, if everyone is trying to play the new champ, then that lane will be over saturated with people and not enough people will be playing the other roles to fill everything.
: We're aware the ARAM PBE queue times are too long, because the amount of players in the pre-alpha tech test is still pretty low. It's still helpful to our test even if you log in to the client but the queue times are too long for an actual game. We should see healthier queue times once the alpha is in full swing, down the line. Sorry about that, and thanks for hanging in there!
But the queue times are only long because of the matchmaking system. Otherwise, a game would always start up when 10 people are in queue. If you loosen the matchmaking parameters on the PBE, then the queue times would drop for everyone significantly. This is an issue for the PBE in general -- not just for the pre-alpha ARAM games.
: [League client update] Briefly visiting the PBE for a pre-alpha tech test *Ended Mar 22*
I got the 3/14 e-mail and downloaded and installed the pre-alpha just now. The install went fine (although I had to guess from comments in this thread whether I was supposed to install it in my beta folder or my regular LoL folder -- answer: beta folder). However, I joined the queue for an ARAM game and... the queue time is now 29 minutes and still counting. Is there any way to make the matchmaking on the beta server less strict? These queue times are pretty ridiculous. Edit: 38 minutes and finally got a game acceptance... and someone else failed the ready check (of course). Back in queue... Edit 2: Yay! 42 minutes to get into a game!
: The new Soraka's alignment is clunky as hell!
I'm just not seeing where the 20% MS compliments her kit. It just seems like something tacked on like "Well, we need to let her do *something* else. How about an unreliable movement speed buff?" At least the mana regen part fit with her kit and created a nice minigame out of her Q's.
: Except, Riot purposely designed Soraka so that building health items isn't efficient. That's why her W costs %Max HP. They also made it so that she has to rely on her Q to sustain because her base HP regen is abysmal. It's 3.5 per 5 at level 1 and it's growth is around .5 per level if not barely higher. This means %HP regen is wasted on her. I also don't want Soraka forced to build Warmogs, Spirit Visage, Sightstone, and another HP item just to be able to maintain heals. That's way costly and highly inefficient from a support standpoint. Supports are meant to purchase lots of items that have benefits for allies. Locket/Banner of command, Zeke's Harbinger, Ardent Censor, etc. Riot has designed supports to be the champions/role that builds all of these items that help their allies, not themselves.
Health regen works wonders on her. Do flat healing regen quints, scaling health regen yellows, and all the health regen masteries. Itemwise, go Eye of the Equinox (200 health, +150% base health regen), ionian boots, Banner of Command (200 health, +100% base health regen), Crystal scepter (for AP, 400 health, and a slow) and then build your Warmogs. Buy the time you finish it, you'll have 3000 health you'll regen faster than you can use it as long as you're not directly taking damage. If the game goes really long, finish off with a Rabadon's Deathcap. Even before Warmogs, I'm usually getting over 100 health/5 sec.
: Soraka 6.3 Feedback
> Overall, these changes "FEEL" better, but still don't solve the problem that without a way to regenerate large portions of HP at a time, Soraka's ability to maintain healing still feels like a massive punishment than anything else. I think you're expected to heal yourself using health regeneration items and runes. Late game, get a warmogs, and you can practically cast forever. My issue with Alignment is that is doesn't feel satisfying to cast it on an ally. Since Q is already unreliable in that you have to depend on hitting an enemy to get Alignment to proc, then the reward should be stronger. Like, double the mana and health reward if you pass Alignment off to your teammate.
: > [{quoted}](name=MungoGeri,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=mdwZUdeU,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-02-10T17:18:06.496+0000) > > POSITIVE: > > 1. Soraka can once again give mana back to her teammates. Woohoo! > > 4. I like that you can't heal minions any more. I know some people liked being able to heal minions, but I mostly healed minions as a mistake when trying to heal an ally champion in a crowd. I agree with most of your post, except those two points. 1°) Giving mana back to someone was never a fun tool to begin with. By removing the old Astral Infusion, Riot was able to only focus on the "healer" aspect of Soraka. That's where the real fun is for Soraka's players. Healing people like you're the best White Mage in the Rift Here, with Alignment, the mana regen only feel like a waste of the power bugdet, like someone at Riot was trying to justifiy the HoT "nerf" aspect of the Heal spell by just slapping "also it regen mana. Just like old days!" on it. 2°) Healing Minion was/is really a thing. A good thing. Soraka can use the {{item:3060}} in her build. Healing the empowered minion is a smart way to tank towers for your carry. Or, if the Soraka is skilled enough, deny the tanks minions in laning phase. Regardless having the **choice** to heal a minion is always superior to no choices at all. (Btw, I think there is a way to_ target champions only_ in your shortcuts, if you want to never miss a heal.)
I appreciate the response. I disagree about #1, though. The mana restore was always a unique feature of soraka. Pair her with a caster style adc, and you can get great poke in lane and later keep teammates from having to back after a big fight. My only issue is with its implementation. If you're limiting it to only after you've hit an enemy with your Q, then the effect should be stronger and more instantaneous. Regarding #2, I can take or leave it. I get what you're saying and I've done that, too, with promoted cannon minions. Still, I wouldn't miss it if it were taken away.
Rioter Comments
: Can we please have teambuilder back?
PBE is a small community. If they enabled team builder all the time along with the other queues, the queue times would be horrendous-- on the order of a half an hour or more. Occasionally, Riot will enable Teambuilder and allow that to be the only queue available for a little while, but those are special occasions.
: Illeoi needs a nerf
She's a zone control juggernaut. If you get in her zone and up close to her, you should die. If you get her to move out of her zone and control her / keep your distance, you should kill her with ease. Seems like she's working as intended.
: The ammount of toxicity is terrifying
They added a bunch of players to the PBE in the last few weeks. Just report the toxic ones, and they'll get weeded out. Riot is more strict about behavior standards on the PBE. When someone gets enough valid reports on them, they'll be booted.
: [Minor][Masteries]3rd Teir bug (PBE) (Normal League)
: Year of "Meaningful Choices" - How can I choose to use my gold advantage to gain a vision advantage?
The blue trinkets have a 60 second cooldown and last until someone kills it. Get used to finding good spots to hide them where the enemy won't check. That's how you can light up the map.
Rioter Comments
: New Junglers in Season 6
I've seen several Tryndamere's in the jungle, and they've done quite well. The mana regeneration on jungle items is also good for mages, so I'll bet some more mages (besides the usual Diana and Gragas) will probably end up being decent junglers.
: > [{quoted}](name=MungoGeri,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=5GQ2WA8O,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-08T01:17:24.275+0000) > > A Rioter said in another thread that the Perseverence mastery acts off base regen rate - so it's like adding another bead to your calculation. I'm not 100% sure about runes, but I'm pretty sure that they don't add to the base health regen rate and therefore they would just add directly to your calculation. > > Don't forget the mastery that increases all self healing and regeneration by 8%. This would actually multiply everything. I'm not sure if the tier 3 Cunning mastery that increases the strength of heals and shields also increases health regeneration. It would be fun to find out. Ah, I see. It might help if they rephrased the description to "+50% base health regen", then, so that it's the same as Rejuvenation Bead.
Yeah, the Rioter agreed that they needed to make that clearer. Apparently, they're going to make another pass at the mastery tooltip descriptions. I just tested the tier 3 Cunning healing mastery and no, it does not increase health regeneration. However, I still wonder about how strong it would be on Volibear with his healing passive.
: [Masteries] Does the new mastery multiply all health regen? Base regen only? How does regen add up?
A Rioter said in another thread that the Perseverence mastery acts off base regen rate - so it's like adding another bead to your calculation. I'm not 100% sure about runes, but I'm pretty sure that they don't add to the base health regen rate and therefore they would just add directly to your calculation. Don't forget the mastery that increases all self healing and regeneration by 8%. This would actually multiply everything. I'm not sure if the tier 3 Cunning mastery that increases the strength of heals and shields also increases health regeneration. It would be fun to find out.
: Manna Pots
Nah. I play Zyra, who's a mana hog, both as support and mid and had no problems. Base mana regen has increased for casters and supports, and the second tier support items have 100% mana regen and the third tier support items have 150% mana regen. Also, mana isn't a major issue for mid champions using standard mana regen items. Also, the second tier refillable potion gives a small amount of mana back. You're panicking about nothing.
: remove 2 player limit, the custom games are all empty, or are the pbe servers really that full?
Agreed. I want to experiment with various starting jungle routes and techniques and do some number crunching related to the way items and masteries interact. But I don't want to ruin the game experience of other people while I do so. It would be nice if single player custom games were allowed more often.
: To be honest you should never pass up a ban. This is assisting the enemy team. Just ban something your team wants banned.
I don't see it as assisting the other team. Leaving champion options open can help either team.
: What if you WANT to pass on a ban?
You can always ban a champion that people rarely play -- Galio, for example.
: Suggestion for the new champion select
You can turn off the music - from the home page, select settings. You can turn off music or sound effects or both.
: I've been jumping in on anything about the lock in issue with this: We all do it. Click a champion and just hover. We hover and chill. Watching nightblue3 or xXXProVayneMontagexXx in our fancy Microsoft edge browsers. This wastes like 35 seconds per phase (blue player 1 is one phase, red players 2 and 3 is second phase etc.) totaling a probable 35s*6 phases = about 3 minutes. Then there's ban phase too, probs about the same. One of the changes Riot has made with this new client is that in each phase, every person picks his champion one at a time. This is to stop two people having an awkward "champion steal" moment, although less likely with the other steps they've taken, essentially making 10 phases instead of 6. This would be 6ish minutes wasted for no reason. I won't say Riots approach is perfect, but looking from this angle, it does save time. What reason do you have to not lock in? I understand sometimes you aren't sure which champion is the best, but if you aren't sure then you should be in the client looking at your options (instead of my habit of watching netflix in lobby) This is to keep people focused, and to **save time** as people spend less time locking in. It does make sense, it just sounds very very backwards. This isn't flame, I agree it's a bit crazy, but it does make sense for the long term. If you wanna discuss it (not have a flame war) I'll happily reply to your comments :) TL;DR it's complicated, but it saves time long term. EDITERINO: Bonus points for your mentioning of the "toxic thing" and I believe duo-queues should be able to queue for just "bot" and have 100% chance of being bot together. Sorry, just adding to your thing :D
I get what you're trying to say, but that leaves situations where either a) The player doesn't know to hit the button or b) they are discussing what choice they should make with their teammates and make a panicked last second choice without time to hit the button. Either way, it ends up starting the queue all over for everyone, so all of that time is lost for everyone.
Rioter Comments
: When you want to lane together just pick each other's role as secondary role. So one player picks adc as primary role and support as the secondary one, the other player can do the opposite.{{summoner:1}}
The interface prevents this, saying that there are not enough "diversity of roles."
: that's why I said the second part of Champselect is too long and not the first part(first part being picking what you would like to play)
OK, I guess I didn't get across my point well. The reason people are "afk'ing" is not because the process is so long. It's because they *think* they've already selected their characters, so all they have to do it tab out until the game starts. But they haven't actually selected their characters, so when they tab out and don't select their characters, the game boots them from champ select and the process has to start over. Once people understand that their initial champ selection is just informational, this situation will work itself out. However, maybe the interface could be more clear that this is what is happening.
: What if i dont want to pick secondary role?
Last night I played 6 games where I selected primary role jungle and secondary role support. In 5 out of 6 games, I got jungle. The champ select process seems to be working.
: I agree that this is definitely going to be a problem. My thought on it is why not let the people that really only want to play one role just queue for one role. They might be happy to wait a longer time in order to get their preferred role and nobody has to deal with role stealing this way.
Yep, agreed. I ran into a game yesterday where a duo queued together and wanted to play adc and support bottom together. But the game forced them to choose secondary roles and so the adc player got pushed into mid. The duo insisted on playing bot together, despite the lane assignment the game gave them, and the person who was assigned adc picked up their preferred adc character but was forced to play mid because of the duo. So, yes, I agree that people should be able to select a single role and if that means they have to wait in longer queues to get it, then that's fine.
: New Normal Draft
They're probably not used to the system, yet, and think that since they've "selected" their character, they can tab out until the game starts.
: Champions Select takes too long
When you first get into champ select, you are merely communicating with your team what you would *like* to play so that people don't ban it or so that people can alter their selections in order to create a good team configuration. You don't officially pick your character until the ban phase is over just like on the live servers.
: > Next I'm going to talk about the state of Graves. He feels like a melee burster at the moment with his spread out autos and insane base AD. (which is insane considering it's like 4 higher than Udyrs) I can't say he's insanely overpowered considering he has the range of Urgot, but his autos in their own right are strong when you put him on a split push mission. He feels like he's no longer bound to bot lane, considering the fact the he's heavily countered by a good amount of them. He seems to be strong top, mid, and jungle to an extent. He melts towers insanely fast (too fast?), his crits with IE are above the 400% of his AD when up close, he gets an insane amount of resistances with his E (Health anyone?), and his wave clear is better than every champ in the game (not even exaggerating). The only things holding Graves back to be a full on ADC is his range and his reload system. I love the direction Graves is going (shotgun pusher/close up fighter) and I'm not exactly sure if he needs any changes as of yet, it's too soon to tell. IMO, he's a better solo laner than a bot lane ADC. Graves is in a good spot imo. He is bursty but he needs the right positioning and may even be under tuned once people know how he works better. (later in the season he may need a tune up depending how zoned he is getting in lane). If you zone graves it is quite easy to make him miss some of the back line minions. (cant hit them if he heas targets in front of him). Overall I feel he is in a good spot and we should wait to change anything on him until we know more about him.
> Overall I feel he is in a good spot and we should wait to change anything on him until we know more about him. I'll split the difference with you. It's pretty clear that he is overpowered right now. However, I hope that Riot will wait to make large adjustments to him until people get a better idea of how to counter him -- when it becomes more clear how overpowered he genuinely is.
: As much has I like the idea of using ghosts, this limits the amount of situations were you can build twin shadows even more than it already is. Most of the times I built twin shadows were in certain games with ap supports but now I might never. Not saying I dislike the change but that It causes an issue that needs to be fixed. either it needs to be a non unique active or one of the items should be changed. I actually think twin shadows could be cool as a tank jungler item. If kept as it is twin shadows may as well be taken out of the game because it takes up extra space.
That's the impression that I've gotten -- that Riot plans to rework and/or remove Twin Shadows from the game.
: Rough 1st clear
Yes, it's quite hard -- unless you get the mastery in the defensive tree that reduces damage from monsters by 2. If you don't get it, it's amazing how all that damage adds up. I hate investing in that mastery, though, because I had to give up the +5% damage to enemies under 40% health mastery. But either way, it's definitely harder than the jungle is on live. Plus, you have to spend a lot more cash on jungle related items before you can start investing in items that provide actual combat stats.
: Feedback about Death's Dance, Graves, etc.
You have some good comments, and I don't want to address everything. However, I do want to address one part: The fact that some marksmen may end up playing better in a spot other than bottom should be considered a feature rather than a bug.
: AP Version of Hurricane would be cool to have
Agreed. I requested something like that a couple days ago, too. I like your design. If the side bolts and/or on-hit effect switched to magic damage, that would be even better.
: Point of Death's Dance?
Pretty much all the time? It gives heals for 12% of *all* physical damage, including from abilities. Plus, incoming damage being turned into damage over time makes it harder to be burst down -- and you can life steal through it.
: Does the Bounty Hunter mastery PERMANENTLY increases damage dealt, or only for a short duration?
Permanent. But remember that it's for "unique" champions. So, on Summoner's Rift, the max would be a 5% gain.
: The problem i see would be people buying both your suggested item and thornmail(specially tanks) and pretty much ruining ADCS lifesteal capabilities. Honestly it would probably result in thornmail being nerfed again. I mean right now you can buy Last Whisper and get grievous wounds as a AD bruiser, or go for thornmail if you really REALLY need to. Why make it even easier for the bruiser to kill the squishy? It should be about timing and skill anyway. TL;DR - i think grevious on a defensive item is a bad idea and would really just be a handicap for unskilled players. It would also be abused alongside thornmail and make tanks godly all over again.
Life steal is the tank killer. I shouldn't end up rolling up to an ADC with Rammus, taunt them, and have them laugh because they're life stealing all of the damage that should be dealt to them from thornmail, Rammus's shield, and Rammus's auto-attack. If this much life steal is available in the game, tanks are going to go away and everything is either going to be ADC's or assassins -- with maybe a few burst mages.
: it is 15% and merc treads were nerfed down to 20% from 35%. If anything tenacity is all around weaker.
And you can only get the masteries if you invest deeply in the defensive tree.
: Besides that ^, devourer is stacking a lot faster now if you can take control of both drag and rh
> [{quoted}](name=Zero Brane,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=QfFEEtXB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-01T16:50:49.570+0000) > > Besides that ^, devourer is stacking a lot faster now if you can take control of both drag and rh That is a good point. I was surprised to discover I got 5 Devourer stacks by helping to kill the RH.
: i disagree. gold is up. death timers up... it used to be i get my item that is supposed to power spike with sated (titanic hydra/bork ect) around the same time i achieve it. now i have that item in a blink of an eye and i have 10-20 stacks (in a successful game)
The death timer issue is a really good point. When a lane gets a kill, they can really snowball.
: That would pretty much double-counter every adc. Thornmail is already fairly tough to lifesteal through, adding grievous wounds to it would make it a 100% build item on every tanky champion. Tanks aren't the only ones who build thornmail. Plenty of bruisers can fit it in.
It doesn't have to be thornmail. It could be another tanky item. Right now, there is so much life steal going around that I predict everyone will carry a grievous wounds item until it's fixed.
: fast games = devourer changes needed for relevance.
The games are going so quickly, because some people have understood the new items, masteries, and rebuilt characters better than others. As more people understand the new game -- and as Riot tunes the new items--, game length should go back to normal.
: > [{quoted}](name=MungoGeri,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=8LqyUv5M,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-31T19:41:02.742+0000) > > By that time, any duel will be effectively over. Sure, but what about in a teamfight? I haven't had a chance to play with new rageblade yet, but it looks to be geared towards longer engagements anyway.
The stacks drop off after only 5 seconds, so if you're diving in and out of a team fight, chasing someone down, or running while skill cooldowns come off, there's a decent chance that the Rageblade stacks will come off sometime during the team fight and you'll have to start over. Making the stacks last 10 seconds would definitely make Rageblade more useful in team fights.
: 1. this is a great split push item. 2. Runaan's 3. It is still a niche item.
Not seeing your point on #2. You still have to fire 8 basic attacks to charge up the Rageblade and other than the 35% attack speed, Runaan's doesn't help with that. As I said, even late game with several fast attack items, you're still looking at 4-5 seconds before the Rageblade charges up. On point #3. It seems like Riot wants to make it more viable. It's "niche" in the sense of it being tailor built for on-hit builds, but in order for it useful for ranged characters, it'd be nice to make the charge up time less onerous. Either shrink it to 6 basic attacks or make it so that abilities generate Rageblade stacks imho.
Show more

MungoGeri

Level 30 (PBE)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion