: I think its not worth to old Championship Riven owners... I was thinking if she could have a special taunt or particles when backing to make a higher difference.
Dude, Riot didn't HAVE to do anything. The only reason Riven was ever limited to begin with was because Riot messed up and said she would be, then decided to honor that like the nice guys they are. Now, after years of literally everyone with the slightest interest in Riven or cool skins begging for the re-release, they do more for you than they've done for any other limited skin owner, and it's not enough. Fucking entitled children, the lot of you.
: there goes the best skin ive ever had......
You mean the one you still have on top of the extra one you're getting for free? Cry me a river, you dickhole.
: What about a small indicator on her mastery badge? (I guess people who have obtained her back in season 2 would have at least level 5) It's more noticeable than her crown, and some people don't even mind looking at loading screen these days.
"But people may not notice the special snowflake I am! Do more Riot, nothing is enough!"
: HEY RIOT, if u do this to riven, make sure to do the same thing with pax tf, sivir, ufo corki, and Triumphant Ryze as well. champion ship riven is the one and only limited skin i own, and then u did this to her.
This right here is my exact problem with this treatment of CS Riven. Now it's a precedent and all the entitled twats of the LoL Community are going to expect the same of their other favorite skins. Never mind a border should be plenty as it announces your "elite status" to the world whenever you use it. Why that's not enough for anybody is beyond me aside from this generation being the most entitled and impossible to satisfy group of people to walk the planet.\ By the way, retard, Triumphant Ryze is still available. It's for winning a Riot-sanctioned tourney. If you want it, get good and go compete. Also also, oh boo hoo it's your only limited skin. You're getting a second version of her that nobody that doesn't already have her can get. You'll have TWO FUCKING SKINS for the price of the one you bought ages ago. Get over yourself.
: Hey, what about that "limited edition skin bought before it became legacy" icon? We can't have even that? It seems unfair if we don't. People that used to buy skins back in the day are basically fucked. Yet again Riot diminished "limited skins" due to popular demand. It's as if you only think of money. I am a Riot fan boy and I always stand behind Riot when talking with friends or in the internet, but please... you said many times in the past that Champ Riven won't be returning in the shop. I bought the skin based on that. Now everyone can have it...
Fuck you, you entitled twat. "Limited edition" skins are the most cancerous thing a company like this can do and it's my biggest complaint with Hi-Rez's Smite model, because they do it more than Riot ever did. You're bitching because you don't get to be a special snowflake swinging your blue sword, but you do. You get an ADDITIONAL SKIN for free, because they made it pretty clear that you'll get both versions. Both versions will have the new border (or maybe just the "vintage" one, but who cares). But oh wah you can't "even" have an icon despite Riot putting more work into this re-release than ANY OTHER. But serious, name one other product that is limited edition ONLY. Books? Nope, there are limited edition prints, but anybody gets to enjoy the story in a normal printing. Collectibles? Sure, but skins aren't purely collectible. They're a way to make a champion more visually appealing. Video games are pretty much the only place you see this bizarre "You can buy this thing now and never again will we sell any version of it" nonsense. And it's purely shitting on people who just didn't happen to be able to buy it within that small time window. I was playing back in Season II. I had no idea what the World Championship was or what the Championship Riven skin was, and I was a poor college kid so I couldn't afford skins often. But most of my time went into the game. I was here, giving what little I did have to the game for the champs I did play. Because of that, I should never get to have this skin to protect your precious feelings? Again I say, fuck you, you entitled twat.
Rioter Comments
: MYMU - Cassiopeia Discussion
Have you considered allowing Quick Cast with Indicators to work with Noxious Blast? I don't understand why that ability should be always quick cast. So few spells don't let you choose how to cast them, and this one doesn't have anything I can see to justify this special case.
: Surprise party fiddlesticks E icon didn't change, however his R icon did. I hope you plan on updating the way these look Rageblade currently says 'Melee attacks grant 1 stacks' This is grammatically incorrect and is useless information
Pretty sure the Rageblade thing is a bug, not just pointless. On live Melee attacks grant 2 stacks, to balance it over ranged since ranged attacks are obviously much easier to get off.
: This is intended. You always smart cast that ability, on the live servers as well as the PBE. That also happens with Urgot's Q and Karthus' Q.
I get Urgot's Q, but Cass's and Karthus's I don't see any reason for. It should be changed.
: Mid Season Mages Bug thread!
Cassiopeia Bug Report Type of Bug: In-Game Controls Description: Q - Noxious Blast does not work with "Quick Cast with Indicators" and instead behaves as though regular "Quick Cast" were enabled. Steps to reproduce: 1. Launch a game after selecting Cassiopeia as your champion 2. Level up Q - Noxious Blast 3. Enable "Quick Cast with Indicators" 4. Press Q while holding the Right Mouse Button. 5. Observe the result. Expected result: The target indicator and cast range indicator will display while holding R-Mouse, and will cast if released or cancel if another input is registered (depending on settings chosen). Observed result: No indicators will be displayed and Cass will immediately cast Noxious Blast at the cursor's location or move into range to do so. Reproduction rate: 100%
: Mid Season Mages Bug thread!
Final Boss Veigar Bug Report Type of Bug: Visual Effect Description: The level-up visual effect from stacking Veigar's new passive only appears when stacking it the old way (by killing something with Q - Baleful Strike). It does NOT appear when hitting enemy champions with spells (unless it's Baleful Strike and it kills them) or when getting a takedown (unless you kill them with Baleful Strike). Steps to reproduce: 1.Launch a game after selecting Veigar as your champion and Final Boss Veigar as your skin. 2.Go to lane 3.Get to level 6 4.Hit a champ with each of your abilities, and get takedowns without getting the last hit with Q 5.Observe the result Expected result: Visual effect triggers with every stack gained. Observed result: Visual effect triggers only with Q last-hits. Reproduction rate: 100%
: Zyra's plants does not trigger UNIQUE – TRIBUTE: (Spells and basic attacks against champions or buildings deal 15 additional damage and grant 15 Gold. This can occur up to 3 times every 30 seconds. Killing a minion disables this passive for 12 seconds.) Even though they should.
Why should they? They are neither champions nor buildings.
: Oo thats a bad one, we created this while fixing another bug last night thanks for the report!
Casting Q - Noxious Blast with "Quick Cast with Indicators" enabled will behave like regular quick cast.
: tl;dr: The only ones I implore you to revert are Nightraven Fiora, Lord Mordekaiser, Ionian Master Yi and Masquerade Evelynn, with a strong preference to revert Annie's splashes (if only because I really dislike the style) as well as Safari Caitlyn (charm is lost for no real gain) and maybe Sun Goddess Karma. A lot of the new artwork isn't amazing (or is severely the wrong style) - but a lot of the existing ones are worse, so I cannot justify a revert. The ChampUp team has a tall order, and I cannot wait to see the fruits of their labour. Note that the following is entirely personal opinion, although in some cases I've tried to be objective: * Ahri * Midnight - I cannot tell the difference. * Dynasty - I cannot tell the difference. * Akali * Stinger - Update to the original, but the wrong style. I await a modern splash. * Bloodmoon - Improvement. EDIT: Apparently it's Crimson. Blood Moon's is still bad - can you update it? * Silver Fang - Improvement. * Alistar * Long Horn - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Amumu * Vancoover - Improvement. * Emumu - Improvement and charming, although features old models for other champions. * Regifted - No opinion, although I feel the setting of the original was better. Returns rather than unopened. * Almost Prom King - No opinion, but I'm inclined to say a downgrade. Amumu looks off. * Annie * Annie in Wonderland - I'm really not a fan of Anime-style children. * Prom Queen - Same issue. * Blitzcrank * Boom Boom - Improvement, although I feel the setting could be improved in a modern splash art. * Caitlyn * Safari - I feel this loses too much of the original's charm for something that isn't that interesting. * Arctic Ops - Improvement. * Cho'Gath * Gentleman - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Corki * Red Baron - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Dr. Mundo * Toxic - Improvement. * Evelynn * Shadow - Update to the original, but is the wrong style. I await a modern splash. * Masquerade - Not an improvement on the original as well as being the wrong style. I would personally continue to use the existing splash. * Fiddlesticks * Spectral - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Garen * Sanguine - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Desert Trooper - Definitely an update the original, I couldn't even tell which skin this was. Not the correct style though - I await a modern splash. * Fiora * Nightraven - **Gross**. The original is fairly high quality as it is and the new artwork looks vampiric. * Irelia * Original - Improvement, although what happened to the new splash art that was used during Worlds? * Infiltrator - Improvement. I always found something off with the NA art. * Janna * Tempest - Update to the original, but is the wrong style. I await a modern splash. * Karma * Sun Goddess - The original isn't bad enough to warrant upgrading to an artwork that isn't an improvement, especially when it's the wrong style. * Sakura - I dislike it because of the style, and cannot tell if it's an upgrade or not (the original is poor quality). I await a modern splash. * Karthus * Grim Reaper - I really like the original splash artwork but I appreciate it features taboo content. The new artwork isn't particularly interesting so I await a modern splash. * Statue - Alien art style but an improvement. * Phantom - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Lee Sin * Traditional - Improvement. * Master Yi * Ionian - The **original splash artwork is by far superior **and a more appropriate setting/pose for an Ionian themed skin. * Samurai - No opinion. * Headhunter - Improvement no doubt, but I'll miss the original. * Miss Fortune * Cowgirl - Improvement. * Secret Agent - Improvement. * Road Warrior - Improvement. * Mordekaiser * Lord Mordekaiser? - **Gross**. I actually couldn't tell if this was Dragon Knight or Lord, but the horns and mace made me decide upon Lord. This does not look like Mordekaiser. He's so... round. * Morgana * Exiled - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Singful Succulance - Marginal differences. * Nocturne * Frozen Terror - The original is bad but I dislike the style of the new. I await a modern splash. * Wukong * Volcanic - Improvement, although Chinese-style monkeys look really odd to me. * General - Probably an improvement, but I really adore the original.
Also, that General Wukong, while a great piece of art, is a TERRIBLE splash for that skin. It's not on fire like that in-game and doesn't come across as so violent. Looks like he's trying to be a Charr from Guild Wars.
: I bet this global update *still* doesn't include Evelynn since her visual update is coming Soon™, 2013-2016 http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3962735&page=1#post42363700
Actually two of her three old skins (Masquerade and Shadow) are having their splashes swapped with the Chinese ones.
: tl;dr: The only ones I implore you to revert are Nightraven Fiora, Lord Mordekaiser, Ionian Master Yi and Masquerade Evelynn, with a strong preference to revert Annie's splashes (if only because I really dislike the style) as well as Safari Caitlyn (charm is lost for no real gain) and maybe Sun Goddess Karma. A lot of the new artwork isn't amazing (or is severely the wrong style) - but a lot of the existing ones are worse, so I cannot justify a revert. The ChampUp team has a tall order, and I cannot wait to see the fruits of their labour. Note that the following is entirely personal opinion, although in some cases I've tried to be objective: * Ahri * Midnight - I cannot tell the difference. * Dynasty - I cannot tell the difference. * Akali * Stinger - Update to the original, but the wrong style. I await a modern splash. * Bloodmoon - Improvement. EDIT: Apparently it's Crimson. Blood Moon's is still bad - can you update it? * Silver Fang - Improvement. * Alistar * Long Horn - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Amumu * Vancoover - Improvement. * Emumu - Improvement and charming, although features old models for other champions. * Regifted - No opinion, although I feel the setting of the original was better. Returns rather than unopened. * Almost Prom King - No opinion, but I'm inclined to say a downgrade. Amumu looks off. * Annie * Annie in Wonderland - I'm really not a fan of Anime-style children. * Prom Queen - Same issue. * Blitzcrank * Boom Boom - Improvement, although I feel the setting could be improved in a modern splash art. * Caitlyn * Safari - I feel this loses too much of the original's charm for something that isn't that interesting. * Arctic Ops - Improvement. * Cho'Gath * Gentleman - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Corki * Red Baron - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Dr. Mundo * Toxic - Improvement. * Evelynn * Shadow - Update to the original, but is the wrong style. I await a modern splash. * Masquerade - Not an improvement on the original as well as being the wrong style. I would personally continue to use the existing splash. * Fiddlesticks * Spectral - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Garen * Sanguine - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Desert Trooper - Definitely an update the original, I couldn't even tell which skin this was. Not the correct style though - I await a modern splash. * Fiora * Nightraven - **Gross**. The original is fairly high quality as it is and the new artwork looks vampiric. * Irelia * Original - Improvement, although what happened to the new splash art that was used during Worlds? * Infiltrator - Improvement. I always found something off with the NA art. * Janna * Tempest - Update to the original, but is the wrong style. I await a modern splash. * Karma * Sun Goddess - The original isn't bad enough to warrant upgrading to an artwork that isn't an improvement, especially when it's the wrong style. * Sakura - I dislike it because of the style, and cannot tell if it's an upgrade or not (the original is poor quality). I await a modern splash. * Karthus * Grim Reaper - I really like the original splash artwork but I appreciate it features taboo content. The new artwork isn't particularly interesting so I await a modern splash. * Statue - Alien art style but an improvement. * Phantom - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Lee Sin * Traditional - Improvement. * Master Yi * Ionian - The **original splash artwork is by far superior **and a more appropriate setting/pose for an Ionian themed skin. * Samurai - No opinion. * Headhunter - Improvement no doubt, but I'll miss the original. * Miss Fortune * Cowgirl - Improvement. * Secret Agent - Improvement. * Road Warrior - Improvement. * Mordekaiser * Lord Mordekaiser? - **Gross**. I actually couldn't tell if this was Dragon Knight or Lord, but the horns and mace made me decide upon Lord. This does not look like Mordekaiser. He's so... round. * Morgana * Exiled - Update to the original, but still poor. I await a modern splash. * Singful Succulance - Marginal differences. * Nocturne * Frozen Terror - The original is bad but I dislike the style of the new. I await a modern splash. * Wukong * Volcanic - Improvement, although Chinese-style monkeys look really odd to me. * General - Probably an improvement, but I really adore the original.
That's Crimson Akali, not Bloodmoon.
: If you're referring to new splashes for older, reworked champions by the Champion Update team - this is not that work. This is purely unifying the existing content. Then, as new splashes come out (be they for new skins or old), all regions will get the new art.
It kills me that you guys commit to finally updating really old splashes, and then do this instead for so many. Especially considering most of the Chinese specific splash arts look more like decent fan art that actual Riot art.
: WIll this [WW splash](http://i.imgur.com/rmZqA2w.png) and [this Irelia](https://pp.vk.me/c624030/v624030814/19144/ypooXlqEujI.jpg) splash, that's been teased earlier, be used? EDIT: Turns out I managed to paste a YT video instead of the WW splash I meant. Changed that now.
There's no Warwick splash or any other in that link, just a bad youtube video. Screw you for fishing for views like that.
: If you're referring to new splashes for older, reworked champions by the Champion Update team - this is not that work. This is purely unifying the existing content. Then, as new splashes come out (be they for new skins or old), all regions will get the new art.
Didn't you guys already do this like a year ago? Also... > With that in mind, we'll be updating a large number of our older splash arts to unify them across all regions. Poor f*cking wording if you're not actually updating the art, but just swapping around what's used where.
: Primetime Draven @ hextech feature sees it as a normal skin even tho its legendary
Zombie Brand, FIrefighter Tristana, and Alien Invader Heimerdinger are also not correctly labeled as Legendary in the crafting system.
: Braum Ultimate or Legendary Skin (concept)
A) This concept was around for many months before El Tigre came out. I'm pretty sure this is an inspiration for it. B) This skin would not be Legendary or Ultimate. It would most likely be a 975 skin as it has new particles, but there's no reason to assume they'd do anything to his VO or animations.
: Legendary skin categorising
Firefighter Tristana and Alien Invader Heimerdinger were two of the first Legendary skins. This was before the current standard was decided on, where the model, particals, animations, and VO are all created new for a Legendary.
: I actually saw a post from a rioter on tublr saying they'll find a new use to it later
: Okay, found it. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/419ruy/everything_you_need_to_know_about_hextech/cz14f1o
Keyword, "likely" improvements. We both know they won't do anything to let anybody reliably get that fucking skin.
: Wondering: is the rare gem only there to get an extra roll? give it another small) use we choose
I'd much rather just see it removed and let the chest/key bundle drop on its own.
: There are plans that rare gems will have use in the future beyond just being another chest & key combo. I think it's in the boards Q&A somewhere.
I can't find evidence of this anywhere, but I'm having trouble thinking of any likely improvements that would actually be an improvement. Really, it just needs to be removed in favor of just dropping a chest/key bundle.
: "And inside this box is another box!"
Which is basically already the case, just more clunky because you have to open the gem to get to the box, which you then open.
: Keys and chests should be available for 1 IP in the store.
Why is the bundle 100 IP? It's not really a problem now that you passed out tons of IP and RP, but it still is weird. I don't like feeling punished for wanting to test this without clicking twice as many buttons.
: My feedback after using the Loot System: The animation is neat, but after a while it gets old. Please give us the option to skip the animation The OPEN button on the lower right only brings up the chest: We'd like it better if it was instant open rather than clicking Open the second time. Anyway, this is a nice feature, can't wait for this to get pushed to Live!
I agree with this completely. Clicking "open" twice is clunky as hell, as is having to forge the Rare Gem when it's always the same thing. Not only would skipping animations be great, but so would buying and opening chests in bulk. Even when it's live, people will definitely want more than one chest and key at a time.
: Hey all, Just wanted to give a heads up on what’s going on with content on the PBE. The plan is to remove all content from player accounts which is purchasable in the store. Legacy skins and awarded content (like season rewards) will remain. The reason for this is quite simply if you have all the content (or most of the content) that is available it is hard to test the Hextech Crafting system properly. We won’t be restoring content to people’s account after the test because most of that content is available in the store and is easily obtainable. We would like players to continue to interact with the Hextech Crafting system on PBE after the initial testing. Also, this is a testing environment and we will at times have to modify inventories so that we can test features properly. There will be times both now and in the future when features need to be tested and, to do that properly, accounts will have be put in a state where that testing can occur. Looking forward to everyone's feedback on the system. Thanks!
I lost many skins that are NOT currently available to purchase, including Victorious Morgana and Sivir, Championship Riven, High Noon Yasuo (did not realize it had been legacy, but it wouldn't let me buy it) and Order of the Lotus Irelia.{{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
: Any way you could enable the legacy content (as it would be wiped off existing accounts) in the PBE store? I've accrued a number over the years that come in hand when champion updates or skin update go out and I'd hate to just lose them all without a way to get them back.
Most legacy stuff seems to be available from the crafting chests. Not sure about the limited ones though.
: We're not removing legacy content
My CS Riven was also removed, as well as Victorious Morgana and Sivir, High Noon Yasuo, and Order of the Lotus Irelia. (Those are the only ones I can remember for sure, but there might have been a couple more). Speaking of CS Riven, will she be available from Hextech Crafting?
Rioter Comments
: Buying Chests/Keys like runes?
Yes, they need the ability to be bought AND opened in bulk. Also, a way to skip the animation when opening them would be nice too.
: The hair makes her look a lot like Evelynn, and if you take away the sword, well... Can she not have Evelynn's spike-puff hair, and maybe keep her signature hairstyle (with highlight)?
I knew her hair bothered me! Thank you so much for showing me why. I wish it was like it is in the splash, all sleek and kinda thin.
: Hey Euryk, The question of _thematics _is an interesting one. It came up a lot during Thresh's development as well. Then as now I hold firm that being evil does not mean a champion is a loner. The most dastardly of villains have frequently used those around them to help them achieve their objectives. Challenging players' notions of how their constructed world should work is an important counterpoint in games of fantasy to the more standard act of meeting their expectations. The latter invites them to imagine deeply; the former encourages them to imagine freshly. As to the particulars of Mordekaiser as a champion who enjoys an ally presence: He is the quintessential "heavy" unit, a devastating war machine whose only weakness is how lumbering his own massive weapon makes him. He would either seek to exploit those slower than him or find means of holding faster opponents in place. I think there is a lot of merit to the David and Goliath drama of pitting him against a a more slight but elusive opponent.
Nothing you just said in any way means that Mordekaiser would prefer the company of others. Now, let me preface what I'm about to say with this: I personally think certain types of evil certainly can AND SHOULD be in the support role. Primarily Masterminds. People like Swain and Viktor (I can't tell you how upset I am that Viktor's rework didn't open him up for the support role at all). However, Mordekaiser was always portrayed as a sort of wandering terror. This thing that walks Valoran and just kinda messes people up. Like Thresh (who I love as a support in spite of this) I get just zero impression FROM RIOT'S OWN LORE that this character would EVER seek outside aid or even need to. These are entities, storywise, that you avoid, or you get killed by. And, even worse, there's probably not a super reliable way to avoid them. I assume that based on the fact that there's apparently not a super reliable way to track them since Lucian still hasn't been able to really confront Thresh. Now, alot of that may simply be me reading into the lore in ways that suit my personal preconceived notions, but I truly do not think so. I'm not even a fan of Mordekaiser ever saying more than a couple words at a time. His whole purpose is to spread suffering through violence. He doesn't need to talk for that, and he certainly doesn't need any help. It's literally what he exists to do. If you tell me that he can't do it on his own, then you're telling me that he's not an effective Paladin of Pain. That he's not up to the task of his only purpose in undeath.
: Yeah Darius is one of the more pure, raw Juggernauts in the game. He truly has no movement bonuses and has fairly limited reach (though his reach is better than some of the other Juggernauts that do exist). Hopefully Darius feels powerful for being that clean-up monster that none of the other Juggernauts can bring to the table.
Do you even know what Juggernaut means? A Juggernaut, once moving, should be unstoppable. Typically that comes in the form of being large and relatively fast moving. In X-Men, the Juggernaut's primary form of attack is literally running headlong into, well, literally anything. The only champion that feels anything like that is Sion. For the record, I doubt anyone would seriously want Darius to feel like Sion. They have two very different styles. They both wade into battle with a giant axe, sure. However, SIon does it by leveraging his sheer size while Darius does it by wielding his axe in the most brutal ways possible. These two should not be in the same class of champion.
: Well, I wouldn't say "arbitrarily." Juggernauts were always a class of champions that we attempted to design (slow, tanky, high damage). We are simply taking a hard look at what we were trying to initially design, finding out where we went wrong in the past, and getting them to work in the modern day of LoL without just turning them all into the same generic champion. Skarner and Garen are definitely on the fast side of Juggernaut while Darius is on the other side. We think it's possible to make sure Darius can be stronger than the other 2 in different areas instead.
This doesn't mesh with your comment about Juggernauts at all though. Garen and Skarner are literally not slow, so you can't say that Darius being slow is "essential to the direction [you] are moving the Juggernauts." And its seems pretty arbitrary from where I'm sitting, whether "it" be that the class needed to exist at all, or that this group of four largely unrelated champions had to suddenly fit that bill. On Darius specifically, you picked entirely the wrong class to put him in. If I were going to name a new class to put Darius in, it would be Butcher. Or maybe the literal definition of Juggernaut being a "mercilessly destructive and unstoppable force" rather than your definition of "slow and somewhat hard to kill, but totally not a tank". These Juggernauts you're making are, all of them, incredibly easy to kite away from, which, by necessity, means CCing the heck out of them. The only champ in the game that is actually close to being a Juggernaut is Sion, and none of these guys are anything like him in play style or team role, nor should they be.
: Gonna address a couple of points I've seen brought up: **E's Slow** Currently it's set to be a 90% slow for 0.75 seconds. It is designed to help ensure that E -> Q is a fairly guaranteed combo. **Lack of an Execution Indicator** We purposely left this out of Darius's update for design reasons. Darius's design and balance actually revolves around his R's success and failures more than any other champion in the game. Because of this when we added an indicator, the Darius gameplay became too much about just reacting to a UI element changing rather than making interesting, risky, and snappy decisions in the heat of battle that might cascade into a pentakill. In a lot of cases we would prefer consistency across our champions, but in the Darius case we feel like the lack of the indicator allows us to retain power in certain areas and makes him more enjoyable in the long run. **Removal of Passive Movement Speed** This is essential to the direction we are moving the Juggernauts. They are intended to be and feel slow, but hopefully have a ton of other strengths to bring to the table to compensate. This change became extremely important to make especially after we changed Hemorrhage to deal physical damage due to the insane synergy Darius now has with Black Cleaver. **Q Delay** Along with Bloodrage, this is the most significant change we made to the kit and we feel it's 100% necessary for the long-term health of the champion. We've struggled in the past to make melee vs. melee combat interesting and skill-based, so this is us trying to address that. I know it can be pretty painful to get used to, but we've tested it pretty thoroughly and feel you guys will be able to get the hang of it. Adding the delay allows us to load more power into the Q (the heal and increased late game damage) without just making him unstoppable in lane and other dueling scenarios.
> [{quoted}](name=Statikk,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Grx91k8I,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-08-05T00:35:34.903+0000) >**Removal of Passive Movement Speed** > This is essential to the direction we are moving the Juggernauts. They are intended to be and feel slow, but hopefully have a ton of other strengths to bring to the table to compensate. So, you arbitrarily decided this new class of champion had to exist, and then changed existing ones to fit it? I'm sorry but that's not an okay reason for literally any changes in my opinion. Besides, Garen and Skarner have literally never been slow champions. Garen is king of the runaway, and Skarner would never have been considered a viable jungle if he was slow AND had no gap closers.
: Well, your task is to find a teammate that can prevent him from being kited. If you can do so, you'll probably win the game. Good luck!
But why would I go through that when I can take a traditional marksman?
: Could you or one of your testers explain why they built him that way? I saw those items on the PBE and got really confused. Looking at the ratios on his abilities I got even more confused. Some clarification for items like Targons, and the synergy for the build as a whole would be nice.
This. Nothing is being very well explained at the moment.
: Hey Elijah, Your understanding of the changes is accurate. My goal is not to "use Morde to break the meta" but to find a healthy home for Mordekaiser where he can be successful while still being himself (slow, tough, CC-free overwhelmingly powerful damage dealer). My feeling was that for this sort of profile, the champion could not be both successful and healthy on their own. Morde needs someone to help cover his weaknesses and actualize his strengths. Supports stood out as natural complements. They too are incomplete champions, lacking damage but bringing a lot of CC and ally buffs/hastes. There is no unherent reason why playing Mordekaiser bottom lane will cause teams to lose. Structurally, he has the ability to forcefully push games to a conclusion by using his dragon to smash down the enemy base. In testing, we have had just as many games where he succeeds as fails.
I have still yet to see you give us even ONE reason why anybody would pick Morde over a tradition ADC besides the Dragon passive.
: Harvesters of Sorrow (W) is not castable without an ally champion present. If you are alone as Mordekaiser, you'll have to do without it unless an ally ganks/roams for you. As others mentioned, Morde is still able to solo lane/jungle in our testing, but doesn't shine as brightly as he does in a duo lane. I'm comfortable with that mainly because I do not think that Mordekaiser can ever be a marquee example of a healthy solo lane champion given how stark his strengths and weakness profile is -- An excessive number of his lane matchups are determined either at champion select or through jungler intervention, not through the relative skill of Mordekaiser and his lane opponent. As I began to work on his mechanics though, the thing that stood out was how defined Mordekaiser was by those stark strengths and weaknesses. To round out his kit would have been to compromise him as a champion.
My problem with this is, no matter what you say, not completely killed solo Morde. Literally losing an entire ability for playing solo is killing solo lane. My other problem with this is that if you want a melee botlaner so bad, why not just make one? Do it with a new champ. Don't ruin one people already love.
: [Gameplay Ideas] Advanced Pings!
I like the "Ult up in..." option, but why would we need to pick our own timing? The game knows the timer and shows it next to our portrait, all it would have to do is report that.
: Yo Renard Queenston! I understand where you're coming from, Knockout Vi would totally work! Generally when we ideate on skin ideas it's on a per champion basis, instead of a theme. That's exactly what happened with Lee Sin, we ideated on ideas specifically for him and this was the top idea that came out of that meeting. When Vi get's her next skin, Knockout Vi is still an idea that can become reality. Knockout isn't a one and done skin, there could be a line of Knockout/Boom Boom skins. :P With that being said I'll be sure to pass your feedback on about the non-kicking feeling strange with Lee SIn's (Q) and Ult.
I really feel like this skin should be legendary. Once again, Riot is trying to do too much while constraining themselves to a lower tier skin. It's been happening alot with all these 750s coming out, and now this. Seeing this Brad Pitt looking Lee Sin and then hearing his default VO is SUPER jarring, and, in my opinion, Lee Sin has some of the worst particles in the game so it's hard to justify spending that much on a skin that doesn't fix that for some of the worst offenders (resonating strike, I'm looking at you).
: Hey DwarvenGiant, First off, thanks for the feedback! When creating a skin, we think of a skin thematic in terms of what kinds of things should be added to a skin to make the thematic work. What may be needed for one champion to fulfill a thematic may not be true for other. A few examples of this would be Eternum, Debonair and Arcade (which includes Final Boss). Karma is a super heavy particle champion, which is why it made a lot of sense to change her particles with her Order of the Lotus skin. In Irelia's case, we didn't feel the same way, since Irelia is particle light. As you've seen, we did feel that her ultimate particles should match the new weapon, so they were changed.
Hello Katey, I love that you're on here replying to people on here in such a positive manner. I want to say upfront that I like this skin and don't think that it necessarily needed to be more than 750, though as DwarvenGiant mentioned she is kinda lacking in that regard. All that being said, if what you're saying about the skin creation process were true, then Marauder Ashe, Inquisitor Nautilus, and Queen of Diamonds Syndra would not have been 750 skins. In fact, your version of the decision making process is actually contradictory to the version used to justify those skins being so much less than they deserved. We were told that it was decided Syndra needed a 750 skin because she doesn't have any, not because it was the best way to realize that skin concept. All three of the champs whose skins I mentioned are fairly particle heavy, with Syndra being arguable the most particle-driven champ in the game, and two of them (Naut and Ashe) already have plenty of skins that don't change their particles and are fairly inexpensive. So from were I'm sitting, neither explanation holds any water as to why so many 750s are coming out that really should be higher quality skins. I realize you probably didn't have anything to do with those other skins. Please know that I'm not calling out you, Katey, the person who worked hard on this fabulous skin, but you, Katey, the representative currently available to me of Riot as a whole.
: I mean considering that when a new champion gets released is when the game needs the largest amount of play testing, it isnt like this is a bad thing. This is exactly what is supposed to happen (minus the fucked up log ins).
No, it's not. What's SUPPOSED to happen is people get in a lot of time playing Ekko for the purpose of finding and reporting bugs, and then do find and report those bugs, as well as provide feedback on the champ about things that could be tweaked to improve his play. Now, sure, that's happening to some extent, but what is also happening is that people who have no interest in doing any of that hop on to try out a new champ just to do it and won't report any bugs even if they find them. This causes stupid queue times like we're seeing now and keeps actual testers from playing while morons and assholes play to their hearts' content.
: As I posted in another thread, Riot should be both less tolerant and more selective about people on the PBE. The amount of insufferable salties I've faced in the few past months is really unacceptable.
Eh, while I agree with you, this won't happen. Most PBE/PTR type services have little-to-no moderation because it's not a real server. Most companies can't justify committing valuable community management resources to something that's only there for testing purposes. I personally believe that this is a grievous mistake and that it all but destroys the testing process, but hey, I'm not in charge here.
: "It seems like a lot of people are not using their PBE account to actually test anything, but they just want to play Ekko hence why there are more people on than ever before." that is testing
Like Sypher said, testing is not just playing the new champion. Now, I don't think you have to have specific questions in mind when you go into a game as a new champ to be considered testing him. However, if someone goes onto the PBE with no intent OTHER than to get their hands on the new guy, that is NOT testing. That is previewing, and it's not what the PBE is for.
: I don't think you can fault people with access for wanting to play a new champion. Of course people will play ekko with largely varying degrees of success and seriousness, but I don't even attempt to fight to play him. I just like being able to test champions that I don't own on my main accounts, and see if in fact I would like to purchase them, and also check out changes to champions that I play a lot. To pigeonhole everyone wanting to play a new champion as all bad people though, meh, i think that's short sided. I'm also getting a lot of practice laning against him/jungling against him.
A) The phrase you wanted there was "shortsighted". B) The PBE is for TESTING new stuff and finding and reporting bugs. It is not for trying out the new shinies. I'll be the first to admit that I love that aspect of the PBE, but it's not what it's for. If that is your primary reason for being on the PBE, you don't deserve to be on it. The Free Champion Rotation is where you should be trying champs to see if you'd like to purchase them. When the champ goes live you'll get plenty of time to practice laning and jungling against him. Changes will hit live eventually and you can check them out on S@20 if you really can't wait. None of those are valid reasons to be on the PBE. Doing them doesn't make you a bad person, but doing them and not providing feedback and reporting bugs does. In fact, it makes you damaging to the PBE community as a whole.
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Morrivar

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