: Ezreal Feels a bit Lackluster since he isn't terribly great with crit chance.
ez is broken as fck still, u go reaver and trinity then abything u want
: A reminder that Irelia will become even more OP once preseason 6 hits live [tenacity + stun]
not like it matters an adc will 3hit her, and if she goes full tank, she wont even break the lifesteal ADC's have,
: a few queries
fun fact, i just saw a 4 item akali jump on an ADC and literally not break the BT shield then die 1second later...
Rioter Comments
: Experimental preseason 2015 changes hitting the PBE over the next few days
i have a question...... these mana regen changes look like they will hit low mana pool casters really hard(cough diana) etc like the grail teh go to mana regen item 25% of base mana. an avg ap... say ahri has 7+ 18*0.6= 19 mana regen per 5 at lvl 18. her primary costs cap out at 13 where she can do roughly 3 rotations+21 seconds worth of regen and 1 skill. 25% of 19 per 5 which she wont have at lvl 13 is just under 5(from grail, THE mana regen item) it used to be twice as good.... like what i am guessing every caster now has to build RoA or Seraphs embrace now if they want to be able to stay in lane/team fight for any amount of time? *stealth ryze buffs* . and how does it work with things like mana regen masterys and runes?
: Most AP carries can unleash their entire salvo in a small time frame, whereas ADCs have to participate in the entire fight. An AP carry can fight at a much wider range of health because most AP casters either have incredible range or incredible burst. It would be like asking the question, why do AD carries have to buy attack speed? Why can't they just do their entire teamfight's worth of damage in the first 3 seconds?
that is true, which makes them even worse, because AD carrys have 2 very very strong options vs this specific type of ap caster. banshees and GA. there is a reason i hate playing ap assassins that have long cooldowns. you blow everything on a GA and they come back, crit u twice(in 1 second) and you die. and you cant just ignore an ADC where as ap bursters have very clear cut down times. saying 3seconds is a pretty accurate summation of most nukers, who then have a down time of around 7 seconds or more depending on itemisation, skills etc. lets see what an end game adc can do in 3seconds. tristana, vayne, kog, corki - 2.0 + aspd- 500-1k crits depending on armour, theoretical cap of 6k raw dmg + dmg from steriods twitch - kill your whole team graves - 1-1.5k line dmg instantly followed by 500-1k dmg crits depending on enemy armour lucian - depends on what he does, often doesnt team fight with culling, but is one of the slipperier adc's and high dps if left unchecked due to passive and e movement. ap carrys can unleash their salvo somewhat instantly given the element of surprise so they can fight at low hp, but any AD champion can duck out for 3seconds and clear wolves for a easy 500+ hp. appart from fiddle sticks, i dont think there is a single ap carry who can out dps an adc in a team fight in a 3second window with optimal conditions. veigar(nuker by name) needs 700ap or more just to come close to a 1k dmg ultimate, 700 or so on q on a at minimum 3second cd, an adc does that on a rng based 0.5second cooldown. an ap carry with a tank/bruiser on it is severely gimped because they cant blow cooldowns on the beefy target, and they cant tank them up, where as an adc carry doesnt care, you come at me you take dmg, no exceptions, at worse you blow my escape so i reposition, and begin to lifesteal. short of hard CC, you dont simply kill the meta adcarrys, certainly ap's have some utility built into their kit, be it range, crowd control, as well as arguably better defensive itemisation, bar vlad and swain, and possibly mord? the sustain from poke never mind infight leaves alot to be desired. saying armour is an issue is like saying MR doesnt exist, while MR as a pure stat is harder to itemise, GA and banshees need to be calculated into the counter nuking potential. my previous suggestion, a healing cap over an x amount of seconds. what is your opinion on that? it allows for AD's to heal the cap can be adjusted higher for melee champions if they want to itemise heavily into lifesteal it cuts down on those fringe cases of where a max hp bruiser, or sustained dps ap "carry" cant finish off a 5% hp ad champ due to absurd hp gains, and eventually dies and makes soraka /sona champions people might actually see in high level play. honestly i feel spellvamp is fine as it is, swain and vlad get a bit carried away(actualy because of the built in healing mechanic), even lifesteal is fine, until people are healing over 100hp per hit.
: A brief summary of why lifesteal on ADC fits our current design needs: 1. We don't want random damage to take your ADC out of a fight for very long - thus, a source of mega-sustain on ADCs that also involves farming is good. When this isn't true, poke becomes excessively powerful at stopping an attempt at team fighting. 2. It means that clutch saves often don't have to be as overbearing as most classes have some way to amplify the effect of a save. Fighters and Tanks have natural defenses. Other supports have peels of their own. ADCs, given time, can self-heal. This means that the power of a clutch save spell doesn't swing wildly between classes and thus you don't have to do something ridiculous to get a save. 3. In Lanes, lifesteal helps gently nudge the triangle of bottom lane (sustain/harass/burst) in favor of harassment and burst strategies by offering low levels of sustain to every character involve. I'm glossing over a lot of major details so there's plenty of stuff to pick on there. Lifesteal isn't perfect - but it's serving a lot of useful goals at the moment.
why dont ap carrys get this option? and half a second behind your team can equal a 1k crit to the face. why do adc's get this crutch but ap's dont. melee's i can understand, enve though i feel it can get over the top, adc's if they build only 1 lifesteal item, ok, not terrible, but the fact that anyone that cant use lifesteal is left high and dry is what annoys me. lifesteal needs to be brought to heel, or spellvamp needs to be made better. not to mention burst type carries that arent akali are basically countered by GA and zhonyas, both very very common pick ups.
: Sure. Let's think about lifesteal and how it is applied: You attack with your basic attack. You don't have to worry about it being AoE. You know it's always affected by armor. It's single target. It's continuous and not in a burst. It's applied from very controlled ranges. Perhaps most importantly, it's free and doesn't cost Mana. Now let's think about spell vamp and how it is applied: There are hundreds of different spells in the game, with different damage profiles - costs and cooldowns. Some of these have secondary effects. Some of these doesn't. If you find a Spell Vamp that is good and decent for most of the spells - the edge cases - the spells that are low cooldown, cost, sustained, etc. will always cause Spell Vamp x these spells to be overpowered. The problem with Spell Vamp is that it really isn't a basic statistic that can really bridge all these cases. Spell Vamp items actually need to be tuned around the type of pattern that the magic damage is wrapped around - Are you making a Spell Vamp item for a burst character? Then the Spell Vamp needs to be strong, limited and have a cooldown. Are you making a spell vamp item for a sustained character? Small % with no cooldowns. Making a Spell Vamp item for Veigar might be tricky. Do you tune around his Q? his W? His burst combo? Which pattern do you want to support? Because a basic statistic that makes all of these equally feel good immediately means that Karthus becomes an unstoppable monster because of his massive sustained damage pattern. This is one of those cases where something broad enough to be good on Veigar - actually would nerf Veigar's viability if it was released because one of the characters he would be most susceptible to benefits **more**.
your points on spell vamp are fair, however outside of the aoe(and xerath), there is no point where skills are better than auto attacks in the context of applying a heal. most ap's would have to trade mana for life, and even so, do it on a cooldown. for example the 2 ap's i consistantly build spellvamp on are ahri and veigar. veigars q scales with cdr and is single target on a very very low cooldown once lvl 5 with grail and will. and because of the current spellvamp items. i literally destroy almost all ap mids on the sole point of i dont burn pots and i heal 50hp or more every 2seconds, with just 2 items, so i am simply outsustaining, with the only counter play being all in me.come end game, the healing is 200+ per q on a 2second cooldown. on ahri, since her passive promotes it and W counts as a single target skill, and q can hit a whole wave, thats where the healing is focused from. so i do understand your concerns, and the horrific difficulty that is balancing spell vamp. but i cant see why the same things cant be applied to life steal. a crit on an adc who is aiming to heal(hitting a minion) is 200+ hp more if they itemise lifesteal, that is a viable option. and dont get me started on melees with hydra. i feel the disparity between the 2 itemisations is a huge issue, there has been more than 1 time, where i have been something like 17 and 3 on dianna vs a 10 10 riven, and i simply cant deal with it because she heals 500hp per auto atk and i heal nothing. your point that lifesteal is continuous not in a burst, makes the issue worse, with no cost and consistant healling of really an uncomparable amount of hp compared to anyone that isnt vlad. makes ranged adc's with lifesteal, so difficult to deal with, and thats ignoring their crits which do more than most ap ultimates come end game. for example, kennen, one of the ap's i really like, and has a skill that you designated as "overpowered" in regards to spell vamp with his low cooldown shurken, with around 700ap and a will heals a bit over 100hp with a shurken that does around 600 dmg. an ADC with also a full build and just a botrk(not the best lifesteal item) heals that on a non crit, every 0.5 seconds depending on their build. not to mention shurken range is still less than adc's such as trist cait and kog, so the ranged thing arguement is shaky at best. i feel the current setting for spell vamp with significant reduced effectiveness is perfect, and i have no issue on that, and for single target bursters, a capped amount of hp gained per maybe 3seconds would be ideal to prevent a full spell vamp nuker to be 5% nuke someone instantly and be back to full hp(though that still wouldnt be as bad as ADC's who do exactly that) and with that limitation, apply the same thing to lifesteal. a maximum of x hp gained over a several second period of time. it would stop things like an ad anythign wiht life steal just won a duel, clearing a minion wave and being back at full hp. as well as even up the horrific laning discrepencies between the 2 damage types. additionally, it would mean healing supports are actually useful outside of lane, i mean why have a soraka when you can just build a blood thirster and use janna, or thresh. TL DR add more spell vamp itemisation options(mana casters, ad casters) keep the aoe healing penalty(make it general so it applys to things like hydra and hurricane) add a healing cap of X hp per X seconds from lifesteal/spell vamp benefits would be, non shielding/healing ap's now can actually lane somewhat. lifesteal tanking is less ridiculous. healing based supports are less useless outside of lane. hp regen is now good to build something i would like to see is 15-20% spell vamp on grail, nerf the ap down to 50 if you have to, but a Botrk for ap's would be great.
: Sion Champion Update on the PBE!
if you build high atk speed on sion dying actually nerfs your attack speed down to 1.75, similarly if you have high movement speed, starting up your ult slows you down
: Experimental preseason 2015 changes hitting the PBE over the next few days
my biggest question which i still cannot find any good answer for is. why is there such a massive disparity between spell vamp and lifesteal. 2 points in this 1. spell vamp is a unique passive and cannot be stacked, and is also very niche in terms of who uses it due to the limitations on it and the lack of item variety. 2. lifesteal items, all give something ontop of lifesteal which benefits the primary stat of the particular champ, hydra gives aoe and some hp regen, botrk gives aspd, a slow and a smallish nuke/heal, blood thirster gives a pretty solid shield. i have heard the arguement that spellvamp is broken due to being able to heal tremendous amounts of hp instantly. where as.... an adc with 20% lifesteal crits for 1k dmg and heals for 200hp, on a 0.5second cooldown. Ignoring vlad, who barely comes close. who can compete with that. oh right..... melee champions who build flat ad and nothing else, maybe armour pene. hydra bt just these 2 items combined give 30% lifesteal, plenty space for armour pene or defensive items 1 good hydra hit can easily heal 400hp more if you itemise lifesteal. and hydra lw 2bt black cleaver is by no means a horrific build on some champions. it can be used, and it can be viable, silly yes, but when you heal 500+every auto atk and do 500 every auto ignoring skills, short of 1hkoing, how do you die? why is it that ap champions who arent vlad/have in inbuilt heal arent allowed to sustain in lane, while ad champions get free sustain at no resourse cost? why is it that every single lifesteal item is one of the best in slot items for an ad reliant champion. an ad champion can get dropped to 10hp kill 1 camp in the jungle and rejoin the fight, i have done it many times. why cant ap champions even come close to this?? they already have to itemise manaregen, base mana on some, and cdr, and lets lot forget these lifesteal items are jack of all trades, for the ADC we ahve botrk, providing defence with a point and click slow, lifesteal, atk speed, %hp dmg and some flat AD, for the ad caster we have essense reaver with cdr lifesteal and a tonne of ad, for the manaless ad caster with have hydra which gives free aoe dmg and tonnes of AD. and where does that leave ap champions. will of the ancients. certainly not a 1 size fits all as it doesnt give the crucial manaregen for what 95% of spell casters need. addtionally it cant be stacked, and then there is gunblade, and like only 1 champion buys that... akali. either lifesteal needs to be heavily reworked(probably capped at x hp healed per hit, or straight up changed to life gain on hit scaling by champion level) or ap's need some love, make more items, force a cap on healing to prevent excessive healing than you have to. but please. give ap's some love, the imbalance is so huge it isnt even funny(i play a grail, will veigar where i can devote item slots to hp back) and as soon as i get chalice and revolver, i win lane, because i heal a little bit, and they have to use pots. if not implementing some new things, atleast explain why there is such a huge discrepancy. it would be greatly appreciated.
: **tl;dr** - any activation past the first would only give you more attack speed. ah, okay. so the way it works is that you get 10 true damage no matter what, and then there's a bonus amount you get if any number of azure stacks are active (and the bonus amount is the same # as the bonus from awe). to give an example, let's say you have 2000 mana. here's what the stat line would look like: >+25 attack damage (from the item's base ad) +40 attack damage (from awe) +10 true damage on hit or valid spell if you activate it, you pay 60 mana for 10 stacks of azure. that would get you the following: >+40 true damage on hit or valid spell (from having stacks; value = awe's bonus) +10% attack speed (from the 10 stacks) if you activate it a second time, you pay an additional 120 mana for an additional 20 stacks (30 total now). the stats you give for this particular activation are: >+20% attack speed (from the 20 stacks) note that you don't gain any extra true damage from this activation. it's just attack speed. does that clear it up a bit?
do you still get azure stacks onhit? the atk speed is so low, and for an AD caster item, it should have cdr or spell vamp... really it could do with both. i dont see how it is going to compete with the CLEARLY superior essence reaver... more ad, sustain for hp AND mana and cdr, also what is the cap on stacks? is there no cap? not to mention in this hp stacking meta(because of BC and lw stacking) true dmg is kinda terrible, Botrk is FAR better a shredder item with significantly more aspd SUSTAIN and a far greater on hit. how about... tear + vamp scepter + x gold= essence reaver(40 ad, 10% lifesteal, 10% cdr, 7 mana per 5 and awe passive, once stacked then azure gained +10 true dmg increasing by each stack of azure by a % of mana, gain azure on hit, activating the item grants max stacks of azure say... 30? costing x mana and granting % of max mana as atk speed. bam, a Botrk for ad casters
: Nidalee Gameplay Update Feedback/Bugs Thread!
________________ > > **Changes following 6/9 for 6/10 PBE build:** > > * Armor / Magic Resist no longer granted when using Hunted Pounce > * Reducing Pounce's cooldown via minion kill or Swipe on a Hunted target reduces Pounce's cooldown to 1 second, down from 1.5 > * Minor visual adjustments to Javelin Toss particle so that it no longer visually extends so far beyond its actual hit range > * Javelin Toss Mana cost reduced to Live values (50/60/70/80/90) > * Base Armor reverted to Live values (15) > * Javelin Toss cooldown increased to 6 seconds from 5 > * Added better visual/audio feedback for when Hunted Pounce is available on a target > > Hey all, > Though I'm sure it will make some people sad, today we decided to move away from Armor and MR in any form while in Cougar and just reduced the Pounce reset timer from 1.5 to 1.0. We decided to go this route because we think that with a low enough value, the in-out provided by this mechanic can serve as a better form of agile mitigation by means of repositioning away from danger. I understand that this will give more mileage some times than others, but it should ultimately fit the feel of the character better, and if worse comes to worse, we can still consider base defenses adjustments. There's been a lot of discussion about Javelin Toss width, namely how hard it is to hit the skill now. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the gameplay I'm seeing around the Javelin Width, and I think we're going to stick with this width/speed combination for release, but the missile speed is something we're going to be using as a major tuning point following her release if it just honestly feels like they're too hard to hit late game. Lastly, it's not exactly a numbers buff, but I did some work on improving the audio and visual cues for when Hunted Pounce is available on a target, so there should be fewer instances of thinking you can make the jump when you actually can't. > > I apologize for not being able to respond to individual posts the last few days. It's been a bit hectic monitoring all these PBE games while getting her ready for release in various ways. That said, I've still been reading everyone's posts every few hours just to keep in touch with what's being talked about here. Please continue to let me know what you think. > -Repertoir how does this help nidalee, when even conceivably with a zhonyas, an adc will 3 hit her end game? thers not in and out with such low armour, its oh nidalee is flying at me, quick kill her.
: spell vamp is something i'd like to look at in the future for sure. i don't know yet if that means we need to add/rework spell vamp items once that's done, but as a stat it's not in a great enough place currently to be made widely available in the item shop. not sure when we'd be able to put in time for this, but given our current 'to do' list i don't think it'll be anytime soon™.
i was wondering, could a botrk style ap item be added, something eith cdr spell vamp and mana regen, honestly with the nerfs you guys did to grail, i think 20% spell vamp on that would be great. it is actually outragous the difference in power between a sepllvamp mid vs a non spell vamp. i have had mirror matchs veigar vs veigar, and as soon as i get my pistol after chalice, lane is over, the enemy couldnt handle. got to grail and will and wala, beautiful. its been a question that i have asked for a long time, why is spell vamp so limited when mid-late game, anything wiht AD can regen betweek 50-500hp per auto atk. you have ad carry slike varus or caitlyn with 900dmg poke, high even compared to poke mages, who can heal their full hpin 3 auto atks, then poke mages, who do similar poke with perhaps lower cooldowns, who cant heal what so ever? and thats ignoring the fact that if the poke mage gets caught out, 2 autos and they die. some would say the difference in sustain is why we had that AD assasin mid meta a while back, as soon as lifesteal came into play AP's coudlnt sustain the poke, nor have enough mana to out damage the heal without an all in.
: speaking very broadly, 'mages' have traditionally looked to generic defenses instead of specific defenses (*i.e.*, they buy health and 'damage prevention effects' like the actives on zhonya's hourglass and seraph's embrace, as well as the passives on banshee's veil). it's typically much more difficult to get a mage's armor or magic resist to 'fighter' levels, which is more or less the intent right now. to answer your hypothetical, if i needed more defense as brand, anivia, ziggs, lux, *et al*, i would likely buy chalice of harmony or a ruby crystal + giant's belt (or negatron cloak) to eventually upgrade into items that character wants. athene's, rylai's, and liandy's can all be fine. even just a cowl can be great since banshee's veil is really good for long range champions like the ones you mentioned.
with the mana regen and the mr nerf on grail, can its ap be bumped up to like 70? because mana hungry champs most likely will need 2 mana regen items now, and they lose out on mr, making ap assasin mids like fizz akali to an extent, dianna, over bearing.
: Nidalee Gameplay Update Feedback/Bugs Thread!
> > **Changes following 6/5 for next PBE build:** > > * Various tooltip adjustments and bug fixes throughout > * Base Mana increased to 250 from 220 > * Mana per level increased to 60 from 40 > * Base Mana Regen per 5 seconds reduced to 5 from 6 > * Mana Regen per level reduced to 0.4 from 0.5 > * Base Health Regen reduced to 4.5 from 5.0 > * Health Regen per level reduced to 0.5 from 0.6 > * Armor per level reduced to 3.0 from 3.5 > * Javelin Toss Ability Power nerf reverted back to 40% (120% max) from 35% (105% max) > * Javelin Toss cooldown now 5 seconds at all points in the game > * Javelin Toss mana cost increased to 60/75/90/105/120 from 50/60/70/80/90 > * Bushwhack damage now capped against neutrals at 150 damage based on Health per tick > * Primal Surge Mana cost reduced to 60/75/90/105/120 from 60/80/100/120/140 > * Primal Surge buff duration increased to 7 seconds from 6 > * Aspect of the Cougar cooldown adjusted to 3.0/2.5/2.0/1.5 from 5.00/3.75/2.50/1.25 > * Aspect of the Cougar now additionally grants 5/10/15/20 Armor and Magic Resist while in cougar form > > Generally, I really liked what I saw from the reduced width on Javelin Toss. I'm not sure if 20 is the exact correct width at this point, but it looked like if someone tried to dodge it reasonably well, they would in most cases. With tweaks to her mana costs and cooldowns, Nidalee can spam spears that do good damage if she wants to, but they're going cost her quite a bit of the blue bar to do so. I've increased her mana pool by a bit, but lowered all her Health Regen and Mana Regen stats. Tuned correctly, she won't just have infinite mana with a Chalice due to the lower Regen stats. Additionally, now that she's not bursting people quite so hard, I put some resists on Aspect of the Cougar so she can get in there and mix it up with similar resists to other melee characters. To do this, I took some off her Armor per Level so that she remains quite squishy in ranged form. > > Keep the feedback coming. I've seen a lot of good stuff just watching you guys play her over the last few days! - Repertoir i think i said this before, however could nidalee be able to pass through units while hunting? there's alot of times where she cant capitalize on enhanced pounce cause she has to use it to pass over the enemy minion wave. also a % bonus AD ratio on swipe would be really nice. my 1 question in regards to this mana change is, have you considered how this effects AD nidalee, who still needs to spear to effectively use cougar... i was thinking wat if, spears mana cost had a small scaling based on damage dealt, so the cost would something like base + x% of damage dealt, to keep ap nidalee in line, and not to make ad nidalee run out of mana after a few spears. also spear width. the indicator llooks ridiculous, and there are times where its like.... theres no way i actually hit him without hitting those minions(lolol time to engage the flying cat), and a few times if its aimed at the upper body of a champion, it misses when it looks like it hits.
: I personally actually like the smaller width on the spears. It requires a lot more skill to hit, but I think it actually improves her laning phase for better players. With the smaller hitbox you can actually weave it in between minions that you previously couldn't. I've been messing around with this a bit and it really helps you get the hunt debuff in lane. P.S. Theres an extra M on the word moving on the prowl passive
its actually very silly i think, i feel almost bad for hitting spears where literally every other skill shot in the game would hav hit the minion, but on the other hand some spears which look like thie thi arent hitting, mayb 20 is too thin? 40 would be about right i think between new and old
: Would it be at all possible for Nidalee's takedown to remain Physical damage? Changing it to magic damage gives her AD build a similar problem to Poppy, building Lifesteal just immediately becomes completely unworth... PLEASE!!!
it seems like for watever reason it still procs lifesteal, when i tried it, might be a bug though
: See, the thing with Diana, Akali and Fish is they're Melee, and have to get into Melee Range to do their "tons of damage". Old Nidalee could just throw spears until the end of time, eventually hitting someone with it, and by doing so having the hit target recall and take one or two towers because they can't engage because some people on their Team are low. To quote Ciderhelm: "It is inexcusable that one single spammable risk-free basic ability has this much impact on the game!" And before you come up with the "dodge the spears" Argument: sorry, Cassio, Brand, Varus, Ezreal, VelKoz, Lux, Ahri, Lucian, Orianna, etc. But by that logic you're all weak and useless because people can dodge your Skillshots.
dianna has 0.7 ratio on her Q if i am not mistaken, not to mention aoe. nidalee has to get in to melee range to do her tonnes of dmg aswell. spears now are soso, i am not complaing about ther nerfs here, i am just curious about why they nerfered he cougar dmg if she can neither assasinate nor has the durability to stay in the fight. heads up, all the casters you mention there, are aoe casters, who bring CC and do pretty solid ranged poke aswell, arguable as competitive as nidalee. for the ones branded as poke mages, all of them do aoe poke, have strong CC and cooldowns just as low as nidalees now. tldr, nidalee probably neds some armour and mr from leveling her ultimate/or a dmg boost to the ratios(with a small nerf to early base dmg) on cougar, because, laning vs nid early is like groin smashing urself with a train, but late game, she still cant team fight due to her squishyness/low dmg
: Nidalee Gameplay Update Feedback/Bugs Thread!
> ________________ > > **Changes following 4/6 for next PBE build:** > > * Base Movement Speed reverted to 335 from 340 > * Nidalee can no longer stack the various Movement Speed increases on her passive to an effect greater than 30% > * Nidalee now gains vision of Hunted targets passively > * Javelin Toss Ability Power ratio reduced to 35% (105% max) from 40% (120% max) > * Javelin Toss width reduced to 20 from 60 > * Takedown maximum damage once again achieved at 0% Health rather than 20% > * Fixed an issue where Pounce would have too much distance when jumping over walls > * Removed the Red/Green Pounce tether indicator to reduce overall UI noise for Nidalee > * Updated Swipe's Hunted target interaction to be clearer in its interaction with Pounce's cooldown > * Primal Surge cooldown increased to 12 seconds from 10 > * Primal Surge base Healing reduced to 45/85/125/165/205 from 55/95/135/175/215 > > Overall, a the first couple hours on PBE showed a few things right away: > > * She was bursting people too hard with Takedown > * Javelin Toss was still dealing too much damage for how easy it is to hit > * Her safety was still too high, so reverting the MS increase and nerfing Primal Surge should help to chip away at that. > > I'll keep watching and playing games with you guys on PBE tomorrow to get a better idea for how she feels. Thanks for all the great feedback so far! - Repertoir trap utility can traps be made only to effect monsters and champions but not creeps? Movement i also feel like nidalee needs movement through creeps while she is hunting additionally her human mspd seemed fast but you addressed that, but she probably needs a bit on cougar form so she can atleast keep pace with melee's who are running(before they build mspd items) or ranged who have built in escapes *cough* ezreal, cait etc etc(as hilarious as i think ad nidalee with trinity and zephyr is, its not something that makes a great deal of sense) Damage of cougar form with how squishy it is, and the need to try and make it viable, why has EVERY ratio on cougar been nerfed compared to old cougar? so not only does cougar do less dmg than before, she is still way squishy which was the reason not many people used cougar often, AND now she has less ability to flee(probably less than rivens, udyr etc etc). and saying, oh the dmg was just too high for something that can be done every 7 or so seconds, all i have to say is.... akali?? dianna??? fizz??? who also happen to have built in damage mitigation in some form or another Spears. can we get some sort of reference of how wide 20 units is? since reducing spear with by 66% sounds kinda, excessive, exavtly how wide is it now, is there something else we can compare with. in terms of fairness, i see no harm with having it the same width as zenith blade/ all the ranged grabs(thresh bltiz naut) as getting hit by any of those 4, is sound initiation, which is exactly what it does for nidalee. also, is there a reference point of "too much dmg" are you comparing to similar ap carry skills that are single target? personally i do like the changes, but i feel cougar at the moment is ONLY for 1 v 1 as anything else would end up with a dead cat, as she has neither the dmg to rofl stomp people(insta kill assassin style), nor the durability/ mobility to really stay in/weave in and out
: [Game Change Feedback/Idea] Rengar's Unique Item in Trinket Slot, Why not Viktor's ?
viktors preovides real combat states, while i think rengars new one is utility only no actaul dmg.
: Calling Leblanc an AP carry rather than an assassin is definitely off. Leblanc is definitely not an AP carry - she's a super hard AP assassin. However, there's a couple of AP champions that get pretty close to target-agnostic carry status. Take Ryze / Karthus / Cassieopea for instance - More than capable of mopping up an entire team through massive sustained damage - with the tools to either shred / kite or just tank teams. You're right that **most** AP mages are about the wholescale decimation of a team and not an AP carry at all - but not all. Our mages generally have the most variety in terms of their specialities. There are very few AP carries - but the job of most mages isn't to carry the game - it's to exert huge amounts of pressure mid-game and depending on the mage, assassinate/pick off isolated targets (Leblanc) **or** soften up huge groups of enemies (Brand) to make it easier for the rest of your team to function.
thats the problem though ap and to an extent, tanks as a class just cant measure up anymore. they have next to no sustain. ap's cant spell vamp unless u are vlad or akali. theres ur 2 sustain aps, one could argue ryse and casseo. but outside of that. hp sustained aps are next to non existant. compared to every single AD char in the game. who gets atleast 15% lifesteal. alot who run double lifesteal type items. assasin, bruiser, ADC i seen them all do it. poke an AP and it sticks, poke a tank, it still somewhat sticks though the dmg dealt is low, poke an AD, they go do wolfs or hit 2 minions. and they back to full. i just find it grossly unfair, when AD assassins already vastly outclass their ap counterparts by sheer fact of they can do things when skills are on cooldowns, and ADC's can 3-4hit basically every single APC in the game come 35mins. ADC's dont even sacrifice much. most have built in escapes, some that also have a form of crowd control. range's are similar if you ignore xerath. and most ADC's have just as much poke as ap's. so why is it ap carrys get 0 sustain unless they are vlad/akali? perhaps you could make spell vamp less effective on resourceless skills/champions, but for god sake help ap's sustain some. what i would do for 20% spellvamp on Athenes. and evne then its just basically an AP version of Botrk without the active. low raw dmg stat cdr=aspd mana regen+spellvamp=lifesteal. then you could make a spell vamp item talored to resourceless champs. and if you really wanna make things less onesided, make an AP version of blood thirster. so i guess, 30% spell vamp on death cap???(jk by the way, that might be a bit much. the difference sustain makes is so big, for almost all my ap mid's i open with will, some mana regen cdr and spell vamp. veigar loves it, farm lots poke and they normally dont get will, so just poke em out kill if they silly. ahri loves it cause it works wel lwith fox fire. dianna, annie, lux spell vamp works on everyone and even if it is just 100hp per wave. it helps, but what i hate is needing go get grail AND will to be properly sustained, when AD's can still farm with 0 mana and have infinite sustain due to theirs havingn no cost. and as much as you guys like to argue "spell vamp gets a bit silly when someone like akali is healing 500hp while chunking people down" any ADC critting u for 1k and healing 500hp is not silly? riven healing for 1k+ hp in the middle of a minon wave per auto atk?? that awkward moment when a 20 5 xx dianna cant evne 1v1 a 10kill riven, just because lifesteal cant 1hko, CD's too long.
: *EDIT:* I'm usually under the impression that "carry," without other context, in a MOBA, typically refers to autoattack-dependent lategame DPS who can force down towers. I think that one issue I have is that saying "carries can't pick who they're strong against" outright ignores the possibility of reducing their vulnerability, but forcing them to build in a target-agnostic way to provide truly target-agnostic damage output. In fact, I think might have been the goal behind Blade of the Ruined King--providing stronger agnostic sustained damage than PD/Shiv/Triforce/Zephyr in exchange for losing the utility of Shiv, the sheer mobility of Triforce and Zephyr, and the raw melting power of Phantom Dancer. I like *that* idea, although I feel strongly that BoRK should be focused more intensely on directly counteracting health-stacking (and proving *weaker* as an item against enemies not building health--i.e. Zed is losing carry-melting power to deliver higher punishment to tanks, health-item mages, and bruisers if he builds BoRK). Perhaps the active could be focused on *bonus* health (the "shreds bonus health" approach being what Dawngate's Ruin item takes)? ...Speaking of items providing target-agnostic damage, how are bonus pen Last Whisper/Void Staff coming along?
lb cant assassinate anyone with a GA/ banshees, having both means she cant d a single thing. another problem i feel is you cant poke out a end game adc, they hit 2 minions and they are back to full, where as u poke an ap that ap stays down unless they have a healer. and you cant say AD's cant poke as well as apc's varus caityin ez are all very high up there in terms of poke, even jinx i would say. then you have bruisers with masive poke, *cough* jace 900dmg pokes in aoe. he normally has pretty baller lifesteal too
: Carry players do not have the luxury of picking who they want to be good against. That's a thing that most other classes get to do - because they're not expected to kill everyone in a team fight. Carries, in a rule, have to have the tools to be able to kill and duel everyone and somehow have the damage to kill them. No other champion archetype is expected to have to deal with the possibility that they might have to clean up every other character class. No other champion archetype is as vulnerable to every other character class. A carry, for the most part, has to be target agnostic in order to function. Adding specific hard-counters that are ideal versus certain classes supports assassins more than carries for the most part. As for 'cross-contamination' into bruisers - if you make BoRK more targeted in its various roles - you'd most likely make this problem worse, not better. Prime 'anti-tank' items have always been better on bruisers than carries. Prime duelist items have again, always been better on assassins than carries. If you split it, you make an **ideal** item for some other class rather than an item that carries can pick up. Although I suppose you can just add a bunch of critical strike to it and make an item intended to just hard-counter a class while the carry doesn't lose anything. Unsure if that would lead to a particularly better world. That's not to say BoRK is perfect by any means - the proc is fairly weak and the active is most likely too strong.
by that definition, ap carries do not exist. 90% of "ap carrys" have excessive CD's so once their rotation is over they are done. take LB for example if 3 out of 5 people on the enemy team have GA/ Banshees. she wont do a single thing, where as an adc with 3 offensive items botrk/BT ie and pd can with the proper support mop an entire team add LW for tanks, ap carrys cant, they drop their burst, and they are generally out of dmg for 10seconds. in 10seconds an ADC can kill 3 people and adc's tend not to be gated by cooldowns OR mana/energy(refer someone like dianna, 900mana she can do 2 full rotations give or take if she stays alive that long. banshees negates 1/3 of an apc's dmg in a 1v1 situation, GA negates everything with a longer than 8second cooldown. the problem is APC's work like this: herpderp i just blew ur teams "blah" off the face of the earth. *flee* or did 90% dmg. ADC then crit me 3times and i am dead adc is back at full hp. there is little middle ground, it almost feels asif the only point of an APC is to force a tank not to build 600armour.
: You raise an extremely valid point comparing WotA to AUG. This overlap is another reason I opted to try out the recipe change. There was quite a bit of overlap between the items and bringing WotA up the pricepoint where we felt it should be (mid 2k). Offering it additional offense power over Athene's can also make it a more appealing buy for champions who are debating between the two, which you'll notice we've done (80 AP vs AUGs 60) Spellvamp in general is a stat that is poorly suited for support champions so part of this was positioning WotA a bit away from support champions and more towards the champions that better utalize and benefit from spellvamp. If supports were buying the current WotA it was a trap item, as there are far stronger item choices for traditional support champions, and I believe mage supports who really want SV should find more luck with this version, chalice/MC alone gives more than enough MP5. They don't need to be dropping Mp5 on 3 item slots (since most of the income items also have heavy mp5), it's effectively a wasted stat at that point. That said I've been experimenting with a new Spellvamp item specifically geared towards supports (tentatively called Hug of the Ancients :D ). We'll have to see how that pans out but there might be some promise down that path.
i have always hated the disparity between AD and ap itemisation. why cant we have an ap equiviant of Botrk, i think the best would be just slap spell vamp on athenes. riot claims they hate burst healing off abilitys, like its broken or something, so why is it riven is fine when she heals 400hp per auto atk, ervy time an end game adc crits 500hp right off the bat, not to mention alot of ADC's can actually match apc's with poke from skills but adc autos do MORE than most ap ultimates on a 0.5second cooldown?? there just isnt enough options for spellvamp. for me my thoughts would be spellvamp added to athenes, ap retained, so its 60ap 15 mp5 same passive 20 spell vamp. ap version of botrk, jack of all trades master of none will of the ancients: 20ap 20% spell vamp aura 40ap base . mix support type and finally DFG: 100ap 10% cdr 20% spellvamp the BT of ap athenes=botrk dfg=bt cap=ie will: moderate priced sustain focused for energy users.


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