: He basically has a permanent Maiden if you keep her safe. It sounds like you would have just liked if they kept him the way he was, and he got FULL update because he wasn't in a good spot before.
No, but at one point they were talking about having his ghouls be something very similar to elise spiders with his attacks having interactions based on making them do things. I would have infinitely preferred that than this. It was a simply concept to work with, then they decided to do the same coke they did before they threw morde into the botlane.
: I fail to see how he's less of a necromancer now. Like you said yourself, he creates ghouls from dead enemies. Something that he never did in the old kit. Sure, in the old kit, the ultimate allowed for a bit of temporary necromancy with an actual champion, but now his kit revolves entirely around interacting with and utilizing the minions that come from the dead.
Variety and interest are the spice of life. He spawns one kind of ghoul that does one thing. His ult is technically ranged, cool. He lost uniqueness with his minions however, which is dumb. His q gave him a ms steroid while it was up, had higher base damage than any other ghoul, and had more attack speed. His w ghoul had an aura slow component to it. His e ghoul gave 75% of its damage as a heal to yorick directly. His new ghouls run mindless into the enemy until they are dead. He doesn't have "permanent" minions in the sense that they're always around him (as was discussed and intended in earlier discussions of this champion) instead he has kamikaze's who suicide at your earliest inconvenience. There's technically more of them, but they're BORING. No matter what you dress them up like, they're reskinned minions, complete with dumb AI and suicidal tendencies.
: I don't agree with your statement. No, I am not a Yorick veteran. Yet I do plan on being a Yorick main with this rework. You say the minions are useless, but they are absolute gods when you are pushing a lane. Not to mention they do quite a bit of damage when fighting people. Also I see no mention of his ult anywhere in your post. Which happens to be a core in his split pushing power. Granted the times it will be super effective are not as many as favorable. But it still helps a fair bit in a fight.
Again, wasn't a comment of the efficacy of his new kit. It may have very good use cases, for the most part it appears that he'll have a very hard time getting traction (something he's historically had a problem with regardless) in lane. This was more or less the perspective of someone who's played yorick for a long time, and enjoyed the fantasy and appeal of the necromancer that yorick COULD have been. Now that he's here in all his shovelry, i'm left wanting for what had been discussed and debated over in days long past. You can be as excited as you want to be for his rework, more power to you. I don't wish to kill your mood in the slightest. For myself though it's a very long ways away from the hopes that had been brewing since before I'd even had my first ranked game. I know that's a tall order to settle, but I think Riot could have done it all things considered. His ult is a splitpushing tool yeah, but it's not really any more powerful than his old ult was considering it let you double your AD for a while, gave you 5% damage reduction 5% auto damage increase, and let you revive if you died for 10 seconds. I don't mention his ult because in a weird way it's power he's always had. It is nice he can summon ghouls when he ults, granted. But it's also between a shen ult and a karthus ult in cooldown for the most part.
: I feel the need to explain this. I to, am a Yorick main, but I feel like they got him down right. Let's get this out of the way. A minion mancer champion just won't work in League. The game's AI isn't the best for it to work, and they can't make it work. His Q, E, and R all interact with Mist Walkers, and his ult is a crazy powerful summon who could hold her own. His W could be a summon in of itself too. And Mist Walkers do deal a good chunck of damage when they leap to the target with the E. Honestly, hes ton of fun. We have a true splitpushing champion back into the game, able to push 3 lanes at the same time. His summons are a big part of his kit, as he is weak without them. His heal, if you combine it with Grasp, is quite good, and he can still hold his own. And never underesdmte the power of the Madien. Him, Yorick, and 8 Mist walkers do a TON of damage if you don't foucs them down. His old ghouls were crap, unhealthly, toxic, and bad. His old kit made no sense, and his ult and passive weren't very good to be honest. I'm guessing you haven't acaully played him on the PBE yet, or you would get rid of half the points you have.
This is where we have to disagree by a very wide margin. Minion-mancers DO work, they just aren't how you think they are. People like Elise, Zyra, and illaoi all have meaningful minions which they can have access to when they need them, even if there is a best use scenario with having all of them. New Yorick does not. He waits to get all his minions up, or he uses his shovel. Saying that his minions interact with his abilities is technically correct, but not relevant. His old Q had different stats, his w ghoul did different effects, and his e ghoul had the heal. I don't necessarily agree that old yorick's kit was crap, but it could have been greatly improved upon and given a more healthy direction had care been put into it. This is not what happened though. If this were a new champion I'd be all for it, except for adding in scaling to him to make him feel less like his items are meaningless. This however, was a champion I loved to play named Yorick Mori. Yorick Maiden+8 ghouls may do a lot of damage, until you fight someone with a ravenous hydra and warlord's bloodlust. All in all his minons become MORE boring, and his kit became LESS about necromancy. That's the core of my arguments.
Rioter Comments
: 5 max per minion, so if you're somehow perfectly trapped in a point-blank rectangle of 4 minions, put in just the right places, they could conceivably block all 20 missiles.
Is there any chance you guys could let us try it as a "true" AoE for a few days? It's not a very difficult coding shift to change the piercing of the projectile, and I think you might garner some interesting feedback from the playerbase if we have data from both a projectile-based nova, and a true AoE nova.
: MYMU - Vladimir Discussion
Hello there! Long time Vlad player (well not as long as some of us here, only been playing since S3 ^_^:), and I have to say I was quite frankly terrified when I heard you were reworking Vlad (admittedly I'm a big fan of Morde too and he's not in a happy place IMO). That being said I think you've done a tremendous job with parts of his kit, and I feel like you're missing the mark a bit on others. What works: * Q sustain is quite satisfying. The Bloodrush Q could have a more visceral animation IMO to make it a bit more of a "Wow!" moment, but otherwise the missing HP healing is phenomenal and really feels practical and impactful for keeping you in lane/recouping a bad trade. * Passive is well tuned to not be oppressive. I think you're erring a bit too much on the side of caution with how it's currently balanced, but I'm overall very satisfied with finally having a justification to run a bit bulkier Vlad build in terms of pure HP. * E feels very visually satisfying. In terms of the ability looking amazing, I really feel like this is one of the BEST in the game in terms of overall look. The windup animation and the forced explosion chain together flawlessly. My one gripe here is that the Soulstealer skin's E animation is a bit too busy and makes it somewhat difficult to see other particles while it's charging/going off. I might suggest toning the transparency down just a smidge on these so the overlapping particle doesn't make it too difficult to judge what's going on. * You didn't touch pool. 'Nuf said. What feels awkward: * HP purchasing is more effective than AP purchasing. This feels.... weird to me. I kinda like how there's a massive burden to purchase both stats now: building hp increases your healing due to your q doing % missing health, but q scales damage off ap and % missing hp heal scales as well, while damage from e scales much harder from HP than AP. That being said it's essentially how I put it... your biggest damage tool is your E now since Q's ratios were outright murdered from a damage standpoint. I'm okay with this; it's a utility spell rather than an oppressive statcheck in the reworked kit. The main issue in my eyes is that you've created the only mage in existence that has a bit of a weird time justifying buying a lot of AP items. Overall while the itemization has increased quite a bit for Vlad, he simply doesn't feel like he does enough damage in terms of actually BUILDING damage, which is a very awkward feeling. * E has the wonkiest targetting from any spell I've used. It took me 2 or 3 games of Vlad before someone finally pointed out to me that his Nova effect meant it stopped at the first target hit. Until then it just simply hadn't been communicated to me via the text in his kit or a post somewhere that that was the new functionality. That said... I'm a bit miffed that it's this way. I've actually given it some thought and the fact that it's coded in this way doesn't really give the opponent much agency to be able to outplay the E burst considering it's more an issue of outranging Vlad than it is ducking behind minions. The spell effect rightly doesn't show a grisly image of where it'll strike (which would only make things quite a bit harder for no reason for Vlad), so it doesn't really convey the message that the spell is something that SHOULD be dodged by ducking for cover, rather it's something that should be outran. Additionally the spell costs literally 10% of Vlad's max hp! Honestly, it should feel powerful and a bit oppressive at times considering it takes Vlad a tenth of the way closer to dying. Xerath's Arcanopulse costs 120 mana at max rank.... vlad's E can cost upwards of 300 HEALTH. One of these stats contributes to you being closer to death, the other is just a blue bar under your healthbar that doesn't necessarily kill you if it's empty. Again, not arguing Q's efficacy in recouping this loss, it's more that the ability feels more like it cheats the player playing Vlad in that it's extremely difficult to hit characters in half the game just because of how bizzare the targetting is and how little control it feels like you have over it. You can't really aim it without repositioning your entire character, which is a risk unto itself WITHOUT the max hp costs and the fact that you're not very likely to hit most people you cast at. Overall I feel like there's too much inadvertent counterplay to this ability. It cheats the player more than it gives your opponent agency to avoid the damage, and the cost of the ability more than justifies it being a bit more reliable in terms of damage. If you're looking for a healthier way of balancing it then maybe let it pierce if vlad dumps all 10% hp into the cast? Idk, I just can't help express how cheated I've felt at the hands of arguably his strongest ability. * Which leads to my next point... Vlad's E doesn't feel like it does enough impactful damage for the cost of the ability. The displayed damage always FEELS really high, and in controlled cases it feels very powerful. The issue in my mind is that due to its lack of reliability in targeting, and the oppressive cost of % max hp on it don't really translate to a very strong ability in terms of damage being translated. I think that maybe the coefficient for the health to damage should be increased to help belay this, or ideally that the AP ratio get quite a buff to it to help Vlad's AP purchases actually go the distance. (Bit awkward that Warmog's constitutes about the same raw damage as rabbadon's for this ability o.o[yes the passive does offset this, just talking in terms of raw stats]) *Finally, we go to my last point concerning Vlad's new E. It's binary as all hell. The concept and fantasy surrounding this new E is great. I honestly do like the ability and everything around it in terms of the tradeoffs being made, the visuals being used, and the overall themeing and playspace being explored. The BIGGEST issue with this E (yes bigger than all my other bitching) is that it's very much an "All or nothing" spell. Either you pop it instantly for tiny damage and the attempt to get a stray minion down, or you use the whole damn thing to slow your enemy, do as much damage as possible, and clear the wave to the best of your ability. The other cases are simply dying while trying to pay for the health cost to cast it. Part of this is obviously the learning curve with any new ability, and the paradigm with this ability in particular is certainly unique, but the overall benefit for letting the ability go is.... well nonexistent really. You don't get the slow, the damage isn't as good, and overall you don't have time to accurately ration out the health costs during the 1 second channel time. I love the risk-reward idea behind the ability, but quite honestly there isn't enough of a window of time to really gamble with it! I think if the slow ramped up during the channel then it would be quite a bit closer to being on point. The initial health cost is almost negligible, but so is the damage: I feel that's okay, but I would like it to be a bit higher since health costs are much more impactful than any other resource cost (see literally using the thing keeping you alive to cast. Mana costs ain't shit to dying to using abilities [not literally, i know you hardcode it so that it can't, but the aftermath of the ability is still a thing.]). The middle healthcost isn't terribly high, but the difference of 6% hp to 10% hp really isn't that damn much... and you have to time it to within about half of a second to ration it in that way. Additionally, 6% is basically 10% so it doesn't really matter at all, you might as well hold it the full measure and get a slow with your ability! Overall, amazing job! I really like the direction for Vlad, I think there's just some minor hurdles in the execution. I think this is a GOOD direction for him, just we need to tweak some numbers to make it less clunky in the E. Bugs Encountered: *You can't cast E while IN pool. So far as I know it's been communicated that you can, but it seems you can only release it, not begin the cast, which I swore i saw was supposed to be an intended functionality. *The passive speedboost off your Q doesn't seem to be working, or there's a number wrong in the equation. It feels more like a 5% movement speed buff rather than the 25% bonus it should be. (Sidenote in case this gets answered... can we please give Morde his 340 movement speed back? I mean c'mon! I feel I must remind you that Graves is still a thing, and his burst is way more reliable with a gapcloser built into his actual kit.)
: I just really don't see how Morde could work in place of the ADC, I mean you can throw a lot of off-meta champs into the ADC role and they would be better suited to it than Mordekaiser. That's why I made the suggestions I did, because bar lower elo and normals, no-one in their right mind would take Mordekaiser as the ADC [APC?] into a serious competitive game expecting to win. At least that is how I see it. Honestly, I don't even know if Riot has a clue what they are even doing with him, its too far-fetched to drag a top/mid lane ap champion with no escapes, cc, etc. into bot lane and not really give him any other options because of the functionality on his new W. With this mindset you either pick Mordekaiser as ADC and lose your lane harder than a noob vs doom bots or you attempt to use him as a support and fail miserably at protecting the ADC and/or providing anything meaningful to your team asides from the occasional cursed dragon IF your team can manage to take it, which will be never because you'll be losing lane making it easy for the enemy jungler to snag it every time.
Small counterpoint, because I really do understand where you're coming from and you make some good points, but Morde actually has a very strong early-game when you compare it to traditional ADCs. Botlane is already won or lost by the ability of the support, what Morde offers that's a bit different is a bit more of a cooperative style of play with his lane ally. No I'm not talking about his W, although the burst heal/damage proc is a bit more than you'd think it is, I'm more referring to the downfall of most tradational ADCs, which is they're incredibly squishy, and have very weak follow-up on their own. Morde's follow-up is incredibly powerful with his Q's, and his early game is pretty damn safe considering what most people forget is that he now scales with BOTH ad and ap, which opens up a lot of starting items, as well as runes and masteries. Getting AD marks and AP blues on your masteries will let you double-dip in damage to become even more of an early game threat. E keeps you rediculously safe considering early game adc damage is so god awful, and besides Caitlyn most marksmen don't have a meaningful sort of harass to really put the hurt on Morde. You can scale Morde off of Lifesteal AND Spellvamp, and between the speed-up of the phage items, and the slow of rylais, you're in a decent position to catch people. Losing lane isn't as easy as you think it might be considering how easy it is for morde to farm safe, and how hard it is for ANY adc to shove a wave (or at least compared to Mordekaiser, see King of Farm). Even if you're not doing so well in lane, you can realistically keep farming safely since if you build some of your more defensive options first you generate 15% of your max shield from champions. Ergo that "painful" Caitlyn auto range that hurts most champions so badly doesn't hurt nearly as badly when it takes her 2 autos to shred your shield. Is the lane risky? In a way it is. It requires people to be a bit more conscientious about how the engage team-fights, and how they prioritize targets. All in all i've played Morde as the ADC role a few times, and besides trying to learn the better builds for him, he's pretty consistent with just out-trading adcs with his E (despite all the "nerfs"). Realistically Morde has a 5 ad/level growth. Factoring in his base AD you're going to hit about 150 AD at level 18 without buying any AD. .6 of the 150=90. 90+155=245, or basically Morde's original E damage. It hasn't gone away it's simply been delegated to a bit more of a ramping curve based off of power you'll get at later levels in order to keep Morde from instantly winning lane by spamming his E like he does in live.
: I wanted to make a post about the Mordekaiser changes, looks like I've been beaten to the punch, so I'm just going to leave my feedback in this post because it is very well thought out. **General Feedback**: I played with the rework in a couple custom games against only 2 bots by myself, so I only got to test W when I had a ghost, but I felt that his early game is extremely lacking in any power at all, but I will say that after building a few items I could see how powerful this rework could potentially make him. Though it feels like Morde is being forced into the position to be a very BAD off-meta support pick, his suggested starting item was changed to the Relic Shield which would imply to [assuming] most people playing him that he is meant to be a support. If the reworked Mordekaiser is intended to be a support though, there need to be a few changes made to his kit to make him viable as a support instead of just slapping a considerably awesome passive to summon the dragon onto it. So below I have a list of a few tweaks that could be made to make him more viable as a support and possibly to assist anyone who wanted to take him into a solo lane such as top. **Passive: Iron Man** - Appears to be working as intended. **Q: Mace of Spades** - As Levitos mentioned above it is currently bugged so I won't touch on that part. Anyway, I feel like a pay off along with the damage for the third strike could increase the value of this skill. My suggestion is either a moderate slow, stun, or even a knock-up. This would give Morde some utility in the bot lane to peel for his ADC, a reward to the player for landing the third strike, and much needed CC for Mordekaiser in general. **W: Harvester of Sorrows** - This ability is now almost completely useless in a solo lane, without other champions around Morde is left with only 2 skills to defend himself with. I feel like some functionality for this ability outside of a duo lane would make him more viable outside of the support role, or some crazy off-meta ADC. My suggestions would be to have this ability give Mordekaiser an additional passive % of Spell Vamp, to assist his laning phase and to counteract his abilities consuming health. This would also be beneficial to support Mordekaiser to keep him in lane with his ADC longer. **E: Siphon of Destruction** - My only suggestion for this ability is a bit more readability for the animation when it makes contact with an enemy such as, smoke or something exploding from underneath them. Other than that it appears to be working as intended. **R: Children of the Grave** - To assist Mordekaiser in being a viable support champion I feel that the only addition that could be made to this ability would be to have the target be slowed for 30-40% when the ability is cast and have the slow gradually fall off over the duration. I feel as though the changes I've listed above wouldn't make Mordekaiser OP, but would give him the tools to be a competitive solo or duo lane champion.
Hey there! I really appreciate the comment and the compliment, and I really enjoyed your post. I just wanted to clarify real fast because I don't think Morde's intended to be a support in any way shape or form. The reasoning behind Targon brace being his starting item is because if you have a bruiser/tanky melee support like Braum, Alistar, or anyone else who ALSO uses Targons, then you can double dip on it, and share a bit of farm with your support like it was during Preseason 4 when the passive wasn't limited to just melee champions. The synergy between gold sharing and pushing the lane with 4 instantly dead minions instead of the normal 2 you'd get from a Targons is meant to help point peopple in the direction of a mutualistic strategy to help get that level 2 early for Morde so he can start trading and keeping his shield up more consistently.
: E in my mind is most healthy as a "parry" ability that provides a lot of instant shield. As a nuke, it lacks good play against most opponents, who can't help but get into its range. As such, the damage had to come down a bit in the early game. I didn't want the player to have to invest all their early skill points in a fundamentally passive skill, but rather in their preferred means of inflicting damage on their opponent. Total AD scaling allows the ability to ramp up gradually across game time so that it is hopefully always meeting the needs of providing a "twitchy" active defense against enemy poke.
Hi there CertainlyT! Just wanted to weigh in real fast, because I find that a pretty interesting way of looking at Morde's E. Personally, I've been maxing his E first to help clear the wave/ramp up into my Q later on in the game when the damage is more able to take someone out without getting me killed in the process. With the E shielding to help make him a bit safer even if being poked, he's pretty able to do what he's always done and shrug off enemy damage, but I really enjoyed that different perspective on it! As a bit of a side-note, does Morde's Q benefit from lifesteal, or is it only spellvamp?
Rioter Comments
: [Mordekaiser] When Q active, Morde deals no damage to inhib or nexus
I did a bit of testing myself, you can attack towers with q, but it deals no bonus damage. You cannot, however, attack inhibs at all while you have your q up. Edit: It also consumes the Q "stacks" when you attack the tower, and plays the animations.


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