: ooo let me know how it goes
Guy didn't speak to me on it so not sure if it was tested from a mao on red sadly.
: Heya! There should be a fix tomorrow for this crash, however if you go in and create a Rune page, and make sure to only include enabled runes (you shouldn't be able to do disabled ones), this should resolve the issue. We should have a fix incoming shortly though! Sorry D:
Playing on blue team I was able to reproduce the bug repeatedly by tossing sapling from mao into bot side red brush so not sure if it is just from the runes (possibly graves had them on enemy team) will test again in SBARURF again if possible. EDIT: just entering game now with enemy mao on red going to have them test if i can
: Hey Matrim, I'm sorry I made you feel that way, and reading back, my response did come off very aggressive. I apologize for that. Thanks also for clarifying your statement. I can understand your concern about the difference between a controlled vs uncontrolled testing environment. It's very true that behaviors of games and mechanics have different results once out into the wild. This is a very real risk we can potentially run into, since we run URF on PBE as AR URF. However, we try to mitigate this risk internally with the way we test. We not only do isolated testing of each champion and their mechanics, however we also conduct playtests as well to simulate these situations in a more 'close to real life' type of scenario. I'm sorry if I made you feel unappreciated. It was not my intention, and I hope you'll forgive me and we can continue to have an open dialogue going forward. Really, sincerely, thank you for your feedback. And thank you for your continued participation on the PBE!
Unrelated and also likely to someone who cannot answer. What is the Primary reason you do not unlock all champions for players for ARURF? Far too often players have complained about seeing the the same few champions repeatedly. This is mostly for Live as most PBE testers have most if not all the champions. I would also Like to know how the system determines "Random" if I roll the same champion 3 times in 5 games as first roll, While possible there seems to be a Push where rolled characters are based on what Your enemies, your allies, and you have and pushes the system more toward the champions that are in common rather than True Random.
: No, you'll have to aim more carefully. Quick tip: the R is fixed travel time, so the faster you are, the faster you leap.
Ok that makes sense as it is a decent Reward and not a AOE NUKE *cough* Fizz *cough*
: Testing Champ Mastery Levels 6 and 7
My opinion on the matter: Requiring S ranks seems cool but should be more a means of attaining mastery faster. OR requiring X number of S ranks to advance a rank would be better. Hextech Crafting component seems like a tacked on requirement for the sake of needing a requirement and not having better ideas or to insist upon users using the crafting system. There are many better ideas that could have been done for reaching higher mastery. Requiring more S(+-) ranks should be the sole requirements for 6/7 Requiring wining matches with lane Matchups against every champion or X number of different champions (Laneswaping counts as a match up) Being the MVP of the Team (MVP being the champion the Spectator client is on (when on automatic) more than any other champion on your team. (hard to gauge) These are some quick examples.
: Hi there, One-for-all unfortunately doesn't just work by default. A lot of work goes into making sure every champion and ability function. By default, many don't - for example, I doubt 10 Bard's could ult in One for All right now and see it end well. If we turned the mode on without ensuring it works, there's a good chance the experience you'd have and the bugs you'd find wouldn't be entirely legitimate. As interested as we are in player feedback on the new champion, we're just as interested in how others feel about them, both allies and enemies. While it's not as fun to play as somebody else when you really, really, really want to try Kindred... I like to think of it as an opportunity to learn how to play with/against them. :) See you on the Rift, Fei
This brings up the question regarding a game engine update. What are the plans as of right now to do work regarding the code structure of the engine and back end to allow easier implementation of features and modes so that this would no longer be a problem? If there is no plan what are the reasons for this decision?
: is it not possible to have both damage types hit simultaneously?
They can't as the way they have it now. Right now they have it coded as: physical type check > implement damage > magical type check > implement damage That's why I posted what I did below as a way to program it to be able to do both. It is all because the code base of the game is not optimized and modular, they have to go into the core code and make changes for the future in order to allow fixes down the line, it's the reason why the morde rework should be held off until the code is fixed, that may be over a year away tho :'(.
: This is a tough issue to resolve. One of the damage sources has to come first. If magic comes first, Morde loses On Hit effects (primarily the ones you've noted above; an interesting exception is Sheen, which he actually saves for the next target). If physical comes first, Morde loses shield generation and OnSpellHit effects (like Rylai's, Spell Vamp).
Sorry for the double post wasnt sure if you read the other one but another way it could be done is calculating damage types and on hits before the damage is applied, this would require the rewriting of Black Cleaver's passive code wise tho. Example: Ability will deal 200 Physical and 200 magical Damage type check Physical > calc resists/Lifsteal/onhit physical > pool physical damage > Magical > calc resists/spellvamp/onhit magical > pool magical > onhit effects calc > Final pooling of damage > apply damage in whatever order necessary.
: This is a tough issue to resolve. One of the damage sources has to come first. If magic comes first, Morde loses On Hit effects (primarily the ones you've noted above; an interesting exception is Sheen, which he actually saves for the next target). If physical comes first, Morde loses shield generation and OnSpellHit effects (like Rylai's, Spell Vamp).
You can actually do both with a little messing with the code. Have it so the damage is pooled as a total number when it hits the target (overkill damage essentially) and then after the damage is dealt it checks for damage types, thus procing both types. This may cause some errors until some code is fixed as it is a quick fix for the time being but could be fixed universally by making changes to the way damage is applied to targets. This also future proofs the code in allowing future champions or reworks to not have the same problem.
: After having seen the Images on S@20 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XRDy9R9-eMM/VZx8_YwlEJI/AAAAAAAAFL4/gQscK3zwEiA/s1600/spookygp_turnaround.jpg I would like to request the flames on his Spooky Gangplank Skin be changed to either Black or dark colours as it clashes with the skin IMO.
We were too late all! The day after the launch of the rework is TOO LATE to report these types of things! https://twitter.com/RiotKateyKhaos/status/622466231933612032
: Trickster's Glass (bug?)
> [{quoted}](name=Yura May Zing,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Ovt9OoiM,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-07-12T01:30:04.976+0000) > Its hard to convince my opponents that i'm the REAL Caitlyn, when they can just glance at the mini-map and know that i am just a Skarner prentending to be a vulnerable marksmen. Can we have a picture of this? I want to see a skarner pretending to be a caitlyn and jax having a horrified expression.
: We're working on a fix now for the icon not changing that should be in pretty soon. The particle issue is a bit tricky just because our game doesn't keep track of particles very well. We're working now to fix the ones we feel are the most disruptive but we wont have time to fix everything before the mode ships. Sorry! I'll take a look at Morgana and if there's other persistent particle effects you know of that are really bad go ahead and respond to this. I can't promise we'll be able to fix them all but we'll take a look.
I really love the game mode and hope it makes another appearance in more polish next year. Also if you click on them while they are in cloned form you can see their items.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pyroblasty,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=lEXEsgWL,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2015-06-29T22:26:03.492+0000) > > The problem with old Zeke's is that if it's anywhere near cost efficient on one champion, it becomes borderline broken when there's 3 or 4 people who can utilize it to full extent. That's why the item had to be held back by the awful build path. > > We could maybe have a lifesteal aura, but it's not really something supports like to go for, and solo laners in AD heavy teams have the Black Cleaver. That is largely the reasoning behind why we're changing Zeke's. It's very tough to put the item in a satisfying place that is useful in its niche, without also reaching insane levels of cost efficiency on multiple people. I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that an impactful Lifesteal Aura item should be in the shop; that said, we don't think live Zeke's is the correct incarnation of it.
Guess feedback was pointless. The only reason that people are not building it is the same as before and that's it's horrendous build path but I suppose once all the problems start on live you may look into tuning it.
: All destroyable things that a champion summons grants gold. From teemo shrooms, to yorick ghouls, to reksai tunnels. Its just standard.
10g is a bit much in my opinion as most others require multiple hits and grant less gold than the barrels do. as the barrels are real easy to destroy (currently im seeing one hit by enemies no matter barrel hp which should be a bug) 5g is a decent amount considering they have a requirement to deal damage
: [Ekko/Trickster's glass] Ekko's ult trail still appears while under the effects of trickster's glass
I have found most passive effects still show, such as MF's passive visual if she uses it on an ally, it seems all passive effects coded as buffs are still shown on the character even after transforming.
: I agree, hope riot fixes this ^^
We can only hope my feedback was soon enough for them to do something about it.
: Gangplank Feedback Thread
After having seen the Images on S@20 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XRDy9R9-eMM/VZx8_YwlEJI/AAAAAAAAFL4/gQscK3zwEiA/s1600/spookygp_turnaround.jpg I would like to request the flames on his Spooky Gangplank Skin be changed to either Black or dark colours as it clashes with the skin IMO.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pyroblasty,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=lEXEsgWL,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2015-06-29T22:26:03.492+0000) > > The problem with old Zeke's is that if it's anywhere near cost efficient on one champion, it becomes borderline broken when there's 3 or 4 people who can utilize it to full extent. That's why the item had to be held back by the awful build path. > > We could maybe have a lifesteal aura, but it's not really something supports like to go for, and solo laners in AD heavy teams have the Black Cleaver. That is largely the reasoning behind why we're changing Zeke's. It's very tough to put the item in a satisfying place that is useful in its niche, without also reaching insane levels of cost efficiency on multiple people. I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that an impactful Lifesteal Aura item should be in the shop; that said, we don't think live Zeke's is the correct incarnation of it.
I just want to point out how gold efficient the item is: y = gold efficiency x = bonus AP THESE ARE WIKIA VALUES Gold value per AP = 21.75g Value per Armor = 20g Value per Mana = 2g Value per CDR = 31.67g Value per Crit Chance = 50g Item stats and Value AP 50 = 1087.5g Armor 35 = 700g Mana 250 = 500g CDR 10% = 316.7g Before passive =2604.2g or 113.2% Gold Efficient Passive: Crit 100% = 5000g AP 20% each = varies After Crit added = 7605.2g or 330.6% Gold Efficient Equations (note: I haven't done any mathematics in 3 years so correct me if I am wrong) Gold Efficiency[Y] = 100( ( 2604.2[No Crit value] + 21.75*X[bonus AP] ) / 2300[Item cost] ) OR Y=100((2604.2+21.75*X)/2300) With Crit Gold Efficiency[Y] = 100( ( 7604.2[With Crit value] + 21.75*X[bonus AP] ) / 2300[Item cost] ) OR Y=100((7604.2+21.75*X)/2300) So with 2 APCs being affected by its passive both at 300AP (before bonus ap) the item would give them each 60 AP, 120 total. So ignoring the crit we get 226.7% Efficient, Add in the crit and its 444.1% Efficient.
: Did anyone actually mention that 50% Crit Chance is kinda one of the most op things in the game ever? If you have this item and fight while it is active, you singelhandedly instantly win everything.
yup many people have been mentioning this. I even mentioned that 50% Crit chance is equal to 2500g which is more than the item costs to build.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pyroblasty,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=lEXEsgWL,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2015-06-29T22:26:03.492+0000) > > The problem with old Zeke's is that if it's anywhere near cost efficient on one champion, it becomes borderline broken when there's 3 or 4 people who can utilize it to full extent. That's why the item had to be held back by the awful build path. > > We could maybe have a lifesteal aura, but it's not really something supports like to go for, and solo laners in AD heavy teams have the Black Cleaver. That is largely the reasoning behind why we're changing Zeke's. It's very tough to put the item in a satisfying place that is useful in its niche, without also reaching insane levels of cost efficiency on multiple people. I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that an impactful Lifesteal Aura item should be in the shop; that said, we don't think live Zeke's is the correct incarnation of it.
Problem I see is you are getting rid of a niche AD team item for a 2 person Selfish "yet another AP item" ____ EDIT: Let me add on to this to explain a bit more. At present there are a good amount of AP Support items available (AP from 40 to 80) {{item:3092}} As standard start with poke and disengage on completion {{item:3060}} For AP tanky and lane pressure {{item:3023}} For Chase or disengage {{item:3504}} For Shield/heal supports with AA based ADC Tank Support Items {{item:3401}} Standard start for sustain and is great for fights and dives on completion {{item:3056}} For diving enemies under towers (not used much) {{item:3190}} For team fighting or anti Wombo (more a universal item but I see it more on tanks) {{item:3800}} For engage or peel depending on its use (more universal tank item now) {{item:3512}} For splitpush and tower taking (more universal tank item that isn't used much) Universal support items {{item:3069}} Great for support sustain and gold gen with a Disengage/Engage on completion) {{item:2049}} It's sightstone enough said {{item:3222}} Great for getting ADC or ally out of hard CC and an emergency heal All of these items have great actives (save Ardent Censer which requires your own spell as an activation) What your "NEW" {{item:3050}} does is Double up on power for a really low price tag, What I mean is having it grant 2500g(based on Brawlers) in Crit chance for under the cost is huge add to that a 20% increase in AP for the both of them thats before the stats of the item. Yes you can say that it has a small uptime but even so granting over double the gold cost of an item for free even during a small window isn't a good idea. What it promotes is that when the item is bought the opposing team has to hug under tower and hope not to be dived until its passive wears off, thus promoting a point where the team who gets it first wins lane. Creating an item that has a passive like this doesn't solve the issue you wanted to solve it just creates more issues. Also taking away a very niche AD item for another AP item kind of feels wrong. If anything the concept of a timer based support item is interesting but flawed as it promotes passivism in their opponents, as even having any AP or defensive stats seems dumb for how strong the passive will be when up (hello again LB support). What I think is {{item:3050}} should be kept mostly the same but changed to a single target (ally) item that when cast grants them Lifesteal and Spellvamp for a short duration or a single target skillshot which grants HP based on damage for allies attacking the target, along with completely changing the recipe to be more focused on being a universal item and not a tank or AP item. Possibly being built out of multiple {{item:1006}} and {{item:3114}}. ____ EDIT: Part 2 the EDITING! By building it out of {{item:1006}} and {{item:3114}} you create an item that is all about sustain (what {{item:3050}} on live is for). But because it is regen based stats wise it isn't great in combat unless its active is used. Which brings me to the problem of the recipe as {{item:1006}} is only 180g and {{item:3114}} is only 600g we have the problem of needing at least 1520g to make the item complete at the same cost.To do that we would need to either create a new item that builds out of {{item:1006}} but grants cdr or Movement speed (not many real stats to choose from which aren't tank or damage specific) or build it out of Raptor cloak (sub-optimal as it should not be a tanky item but it's a decent pick) to get the recipe cost down and not use 4 or more components. Theoretical Recipe and stats below ____ {{item:2053}} + {{item:3114}} + 700g = {{item:3050}} 1000g + 600g + 700g = 2300g +40 Armor +100% Base Health Regen +100% Base Mana Regen +10% Cooldown Reduction Unique Passive - Point Runner Unique Active - Foretoken of War: Launches a projectile that collides with the first champion hit flagging them as the target, Allied attacks against the target heal attacker by 15% of the damage done for 5 seconds. (As a skillshot based active) OR Unique Active - Harbinger of Calamity: Target allied champion gains 15% Lifesteal and Spellvamp for 5 seconds. Cannot be cast on self (not sure if needed). (Active as an ally buff ability) ___ I would like to not use raptor cloak but in order to be even 75% stat efficient the new item would need MASSIVE Regen or many different stats, as health regen is the lowest % to gold value statistic in the game. Example of what I mean is the item could have 100% Base health regen (360g worth) and 10% CDR (316.7g worth) for a total of 676.7g stats and have it at 800g the recipe would need to be 900g and final stats of 100 HP and Mana base regen and 20% cdr for 1713.4g in stats for 2300g cost or 74.49% efficient stats wise before active.
: I've generally noted that the mere *existence* of a high % bonus penetration item is what causes people to avoid MR - due to the fact that, it is entirely pointless to spend 4 or 5k gold negating the effects of the opponent if you leave yourself such a massive weakness in a quick turnaround case. It's not a matter of if the item is good or balanced or not - it's just that - the presence of such a strong negator means that the value of MR either has to be extremely cheap (which has other terrible side effects - such as negating magic as a damage source for non pen using classes.) (You may also want to think about the number of AP "bruiser/potential bruisers" in the game with your Void Staff implementation - who rely primarily on base magic damage - See also: Elise, LIssandra, Evelynn). > At the same time, with Abyssal being reworked into an AP bruiser item, it feels like AP Assassins, who arguably aren't in the best shape right now, in the Tank Meta, are losing out on itemization. Firstly, it kind of assumes they need help to begin with. Secondly, super specific narrow items tend to hut the champions they are designed for more than helping them. The more focused items become towards synergizing towards a specific class - the more that classes inherent strengths get weakened by the fact that the item exists. An excellent case study of this is hybrid items. Once you've made a hybrid item that is super focused on empowering hybrid classes - what you've done is created a single item spike for that class. However, once you've created that single item spike - they are completely domineering - thus, you lower their ratios until that single item spike is balanced. The end result of this is that every other item is comparatively poorer on them. In this case - by creating a focused MPen Item that appeals specifically to AP Assassins and no one else - the most likely result is that the base damage of all AP Assassins would go down - and they would have a seriously hard time getting out of lane - because the assumption is that, once they do get out of lane - they will automatically do true damage to squishies. However, if AP Assassin base damages are low - almost every form of CDR/Mana item early on them is really really bad as they'll be forced to pick up as much AP as possible to compensate for the loss of bases. (See Also: Vlad is nerfed because Spell Vamp exists and Spell Vamp is preety much only good for him.) Note that this problem is mostly created by creating narrow items that serve to optimize something, like DPS. Things that fill gaps in a character's kit doesn't usually struggle with this particular burden (Ex: Zhonya's on Morgana actually allows her to buy other AP Items as it compensates for her kit pattern) - but this has other issues like... not being able to control a set of strengths and weaknesses on a champion. It's a fascinating problem space usually when combined with balance concerns.
Semi related question but with the way MPen is right now (same with ARpen) has there been any thought of having those items (VS and LW) scale off of level? For example VS and LW get 2% pen per level and -1% total so it evens out to the 35 at endgame. This way it retains its high power late game but doesn't completely destroy defences mid to early game. Im thinking of this as the champions who spike really hard by just buying this one item.
: [PBE Feedback] "New Missile System" - Rewriting Skillshots
I was wondering if this would allow the future use of "Bending" Skillshot trajectories. To possibly Skillshot repositioning.
: Yup. This goes very heavy handed, and as you speak about, really hurts the fall back patterns of losing lanes. It's preferable to find a solution that doesn't just tell laners "These camps aren't for you" and instead goes for "Are you sure you want to take these?"
Similar to what ISparko said but would reducing the number of minions in the first wave as well as doubling the EXP and GOLD they give help? By this it would allow the opposing laners to push and get damage on the tower (though minor) early and hurt the poachers as they would be denied gold and EXP. A problem I forsee is that this would hurt leashing players as well, though not nearly as much as they are usually in lane much faster.
: Unlike you, Riot GMang doesn't have all the free time in the world to just sit in a thread and complain. Just be patient, you will get a response if any eventually. If you don't get one, there was nothing to say of value and it would be a waste of time for a rioter to go "sorry nothing to say" anyway.
I don't understand where your hostility is coming from I simply asked a question about his thoughts on what was said. I also got a response on why he didn't really discuss it and I can understand where he is coming from. Purely insulting me brings nothing to the table and does nothing for GP or why so many have voiced their concerns. If you believe GP is fine then say so, attacking me only makes your credibility lower by contrast while I am trying to give concerns and thought provoking arguments.
: Asking for feedback is different than chatting a lot in big discussions. The latter takes as lot of time that I frankly don't have in my day. :( I do read all the comments, including ones on other forums like Twitter and Reddit. The comments here are certainly valuable, as are other forums, PBE games, internal playtests, etc. This kind of thread may not leave every contributor immediately addressed, but there's still lots of value to them. Are there things here we should monitor and prepare for? Are there niche tastes we could've missed? Are there cases here that we didn't thoroughly test in playtest? Do we have fundamental directional risks that call for returning to the drawing board? Are there polish points we can address before shipping? This really isn't some fluke change. This has been in playtesting on-and-off for many months. We haven't coasted on these numbers the whole time, and the change was not taken lightly. Our first changes mimicked a lot of the comments here, in fact, including worries about damage (started with damage buffs due to paper math, but we found it overkill in practice). While all feedback is valuable from a data standpoint, not all feedback is good for discussion. For example, "nerf pretty much how you look at it" is just false: it's better for wave clear (reliably kills the whole area with no miss chance), and if enemies aren't standing in the middle a lot (team fights usually have more non-centered targets than centered targets), you'll deal more damage on average--and that's not even to discuss the value of reliability. But ultimately, my goal isn't to debate: it's to hear what you think. People here are worried about damage being weak, and this thread tells me just how important it is to them. I've been worried about that for months, so I share much of that concern and this thread raises that concern. I'm prepared to buff it if that's the right conclusion--part of the value of this change is that it's a spell we're more willing to buff, after all (hence the cooldown re-tuning). It also lets me know about VFX and SFX concerns, for example, which I can bring to our artists and see what option to take. I hope that gives some context. Apologies if this observational approach isn't your style--I'm more of a listener than a talker. :S
I have tomorrow off so ill be play testing him a lot on the PBE and give feedback then. I feel this is too late as it will go live on tuesday/wednesday next week but I hope to get some of my point and ideas off to you before that.
: Asking for feedback is different than chatting a lot in big discussions. The latter takes as lot of time that I frankly don't have in my day. :( I do read all the comments, including ones on other forums like Twitter and Reddit. The comments here are certainly valuable, as are other forums, PBE games, internal playtests, etc. This kind of thread may not leave every contributor immediately addressed, but there's still lots of value to them. Are there things here we should monitor and prepare for? Are there niche tastes we could've missed? Are there cases here that we didn't thoroughly test in playtest? Do we have fundamental directional risks that call for returning to the drawing board? Are there polish points we can address before shipping? This really isn't some fluke change. This has been in playtesting on-and-off for many months. We haven't coasted on these numbers the whole time, and the change was not taken lightly. Our first changes mimicked a lot of the comments here, in fact, including worries about damage (started with damage buffs due to paper math, but we found it overkill in practice). While all feedback is valuable from a data standpoint, not all feedback is good for discussion. For example, "nerf pretty much how you look at it" is just false: it's better for wave clear (reliably kills the whole area with no miss chance), and if enemies aren't standing in the middle a lot (team fights usually have more non-centered targets than centered targets), you'll deal more damage on average--and that's not even to discuss the value of reliability. But ultimately, my goal isn't to debate: it's to hear what you think. People here are worried about damage being weak, and this thread tells me just how important it is to them. I've been worried about that for months, so I share much of that concern and this thread raises that concern. I'm prepared to buff it if that's the right conclusion--part of the value of this change is that it's a spell we're more willing to buff, after all (hence the cooldown re-tuning). It also lets me know about VFX and SFX concerns, for example, which I can bring to our artists and see what option to take. I hope that gives some context. Apologies if this observational approach isn't your style--I'm more of a listener than a talker. :S
Sorry for the late response I was at work and also I'm sorry for the angry tone I had before, controlling my emotions on subjects is something I have been trying to work on but a good match as Darius versus a decent GP made me feel a lot less angry. I guess I am more a back and forth kind of person on feedback but I do understand your reasons and the listener approach or style. I do trust you when you say you have been testing it for a while but the reason I would say or believe you didn't is the one way mirror concept where you do things then hand us something and see how we react and then decide beyond our view or without telling us that you will go ahead even if its right when we get it. Now GP isn't a really popular champion and you most likely wont stop what is being done just based off of our feedback because we are few in number unlike with the Lee Sin changes that were reverted due to him being in the top ten most played champions spot. I want GP to feel somewhat the same as he does now on live with his rework, where his can be build as a Bruiser, a Carry, or a Tank. It allows him to be a more flexible champion and allows him to be in more team compositions. The reason I say this is the recent Sion rework which completely changed what he functions as. Sion went from a Bruiser or Carry to a 360 degree turn into a pure tank. I dont want to see GP going from a champion who can initiate fights and capitalize on enemy mistakes to a champion that requires the enemy to make mistakes, I don't want to see him go from dealing the damage to just soaking it just so the marksman can get a penta. I love GP, his very style to me is perfect and it requires the player to actually take risks to get rewarded, else he scales very slowly without kills or massive farm. One of the reasons he is not played more is if you make an early mistake it is crushing to you and you most likely lost your lane because he doesn't get a huge power spike like most melee carry type champions. On to the ult changes while I agree it sort of increases his reliability it also decreases it in another way. Before (on live) we had damage every .25s for 6 seconds at random areas in the AoE, now we have damage every 1s in the entire AoE for 7 seconds which means that we lose damage for a .75s time period that could have done something. Now this may seem minor but since they are usually out of the AoE in 2 seconds that means you did 2 of 7 hits compared to 8 hits on live possible. I feel as if the every one second should either be changed to .25s , .33~ , or .5 and the damage adjusted accordingly. This makes the enemy want to get out of it sooner rather than being given a full second to enter and exit repeatedly and take no damage if timed right. Either that or maybe increase the slow to 35% or 40% to make it so it is actually a threat to be in and not a mere inconvenience. I would like to talk about this more later but I have to head to sleep as I have work tonight but if you want I will continue to give what opinions and knowledge on the matter that I can.
: Gangplank ult change incoming
Well Riot GMang, What have you taken from this as feedback as we have not heard you say anything for 3 days and we have given you feedback on how we feel about the change. As I have stated on my other post you should not do this change lightly (as I imagine from the way you have responded thus far) and should really consider the repercussions of the change more. From what has been said the damage is a nerf pretty much no matter how you look at it as a champion standing in the center of the old ult would still take more damage than if they stood there in the new one just based off of the damage and AOE of the individual cannonballs. Is this just a one off here is what we are doing deal with it type of change cause you asked for feedback but haven't responded to most complaints but answered just to clarify info about it not to take notes about it. Sorry if this sounds angry I'm a bit on tilt as Riot has still yet to give a shit about the dominion community.
: Gangplank ult change incoming
Can I ask a Question of the person doing the full rework of GP? I had asked for my 1000th win if i could speak to the Rioter in charge of GP's rework but received no response for over a month until I was told they could pass it along but I would not get a word with them so I'll ask now if I could have a word with him/her. I have over double the number of games played on him as any other champion in the game. That being said, from not actually testing it yet (I will get around to it tonight, woot day off) I feel as if this will technically increase his reliability but will massively lower his potential damage, dueling, and teamfight. With the damage reduced as much as it is I feel I won't even be able to use it as effectively as it is on live. the way it can be used on live is multifold, first it can be a peel/blockade where it can trap or prevent/deter enemies from going in for fear of the insane potential damage, second it can be a dueling ring where if you are near the edge it forces them to either full front engage you or take massive damage to get away, third is the other side of dueling where it can be used as the initiation while you have lower hp and they believe they can kill you but its RNG goes off in rapid succession on them and you win a lost duel as they think they can stand in it(due to its RNG nature people assume they will take little to no damage from it). I feel as if this change needs to be worked on more than just a "quick and easy" QoL fix for GP. I hope I am not alone in hoping this isn't pushed to live as is, and is instead going to be postponed until the patch after or even later to make sure it is a QoL change and not as some have said a change that while being more reliable is still a number and max potential nerf overall. I will post more later after I have played him on the PBE to get a better assessment of the change but until I do this is what I see from my perspective and from the vids and responses thus far.
: I really like the change, predictability from the player's part definitely increases viability. I do agree with making the DoT occur more often however, whole seconds can be big deciding factors. Still fine with it given that it is a global ability, it deserves some form of balance behind it especially since it does close to rammus levels of AOE. Since the ult change is close to being QoL, can you also do a few more? Not referring so much to the cast times on abilities, but the fact that dragon doesn't take damage from his passive.
Thats intended as Grog soaked blade is a status effect.
: It is definitely low - in order to make room for both infinite HP scaling and a powerful Max HP ratio on his shield. With all things combined he is on par with nautilus/rammus in terms of tankiness.
> It is definitely low - in order to make room for both infinite HP scaling and a powerful Max HP ratio on his shield. With all things combined he is on par with nautilus/rammus in terms of tankiness. that seems like a really poor design choice with his whole kit in mind. with the way his passive hurts him for building hp and the HP gain passive hurts his regular passive even more I don't know why you wanted his base hp and HP/Level so low. from what I have read from rioters is he is supposed to build FULL TANK with ONE LS item, now this would be fine if most tank items did not include HP which hurts his passive. You could argue that he shouldn't die cause he is a tank but then why was he given the passive? Riot has also said they want him to be a AA based tank but then gave him a LONG windup stun and a passive which doesn't benefit from atk spd items, which goes against being an aa based champion. I've said more in my other post here and I would recommend reading it, because while Riot may have taken a long time to do the rework the kit seems like a last minute "what can we put on him" job for his ult and Q. I'll make another post about it tomorrow when another PBE update is in. His kit just feels thrown together when looked at with all the Riot posts about how he is supposed to play.
: Sion Champion Update on the PBE!
First of I appreciate all the work you all do. Now with that said, some things I believe need to be looked at, after having played him in a custom game to test how he "feels". **Passive: Glory In Death** A great concept but some major problems, first off what is the Speed increase and duration of Death Surge? second he needs a base Move speed increase when he dies as well as DS as enemies can just waltz away without boots while he has boots 3 (swiftness). The Hp lost during his Glory should be a % of his Max HP BEFORE items and his w passive, the reason for this is you will eventually never be able to regen/LS enough hp to even keep yourself up for more than a few seconds because it is % max hp and he has hp stacking passive which directly hurts him the longer the game goes on so his strength becomes his weakness. **Q: Decimating Smash** The low end of the damage feels far too low, while the high end of the damage and the stun feels like it is far too long to achieve for an AA based champion. Early game it feels meh and late it is a non issue without your team CC'ing for you to follow up with it. **W: Soul Furnace** The base Values for the shield feel rather low and the hp gain passive feels really small in comparison to old sion. **E: Roar of the Slayer** Tooltip and effect feel as if it should combo with Decimating Smash but it feels really bad trying to combo them as the slow doesn't give enough time to power up the Decimating Smash unless you were on top of them already. Feels sort of tacked on as an ability. **R: Unstoppable Onslaught** A really great idea for an ability, but feels out of place on Sion except for the name. It feels like this should be on Hecarim more than Sion. great as a way to get back to a fight/lane after dieing but that seems like the whole design was around getting around after dieing. As a teamfight initiation tool it seems cool on paper but feels extremely clunky as the turn ability is like wading knee deep through wet concrete, and the lack of stopping on a dime to do damage really hurts it as any dashes and its a wasted ability. Overall I believe his kit would have been fine if it weren't for all of the dashes and jumps available to champions. It seems as if the kit was designed to adhere to the old design philosophies from when he was first made as a champion, so he has too many weaknesses while he can't at all deal well or at all against either ranged champions (current top meta) or mobility (most new champions). He also feels as if he can't jungle well at all but i have not tried to jungle as him as of yet but just from his kit it feels that way. These are my thoughts on him as of today, I may do more on later iterations.
: I try to think a viable answer for you but the thing is that the only way an item could de the build path you propose is creating a new item to fit the second medium item,but then I guess riot wouldnt want to do it. then the only build path viables are: 1- {{item:1053}} 800g + {{item:3114}} 700g +1125g = reaver or 2- {{item:1037}} 875g + {{item:3114}} 700g + 1050g = reaver but the problem is that Idol offers more mana regen than reaver,we could say that the evolved item reaver use the exceed of mana regen on the new passive but would be a bit wired. still I prefer the first build path than the official.
The problem i feel would still remain and that being {{item:3056}} syndrome where the passive is great its just so late in the game to get its not really worth the investment. you would just get more out of {{item:3004}} both early and late than you would out of ER. At least that's what i feel is the problem.
: I checked the reaver,I found it a bit more useful than the first time i used it,its not a bad item but still is in a curious spot. Since I like a lot the stats it give,I still think is weak to early game since it start to werk well on mid/late,more late. I guess its because the : UNIQUE Passive: You gain 2 to 8% of the damage dealt by basic attacks as Mana. Mana drain increases based on how much Mana you are missing. since in early you wont have enough damage,you wont restore enough mana so I think its better add some passive mana regen. to the item and reduce a bit the mana restoration per AA like: **Essence Reaver:RECIPE: **{{item:1053}} + {{item:1037}} + {{item:1004}} + 770 Gold = 2650 Total Gold Cost Attack Damage: 50 Life Steal: 10% Cooldown Reduction: 10% mana regen: 3 per 5 seconds UNIQUE Passive: You gain 2 to 6.5% of the damage dealt by basic attacks as Mana. Mana drain increases based on how much Mana you are missing. the passive mana regen will fix the mana problem of the early game of the item,cause using some champs as {{champion:81}} without {{item:3043}} and adding the mana reg.masterie,still not prevent the deplete of mana,but that fix would help to allow more diversity to build paths cause I like {{item:3043}},but that item is too risky cause to get the active you can lose all your mana in a TF,also losing your own damage. {{item:1004}} is a great add to the recipe because allow the rush of {{item:1055}} +{{item:1053}} and next a {{item:1004}} giving the ADC enough sustain to go for{{item:1037}} and maybe stay enough in lane to get a REAVER.
for a bit of your time I had another thought, Why not make it build like sheen does? By this i mean have it be a component item. Where you have 3 new items ER = 2 new items the first would be LS + CDR the second would be AD + the mana passive. then you could up the stats and cost of ER to be a better late game item cause as i have been messing with it it is in a weird spot with its mild to high cost and meh stats late game.
: Just tried Essence Reaver and its a great item for champs like Jayce, yorick and maybe Urgot but I dont feel like the building path is optimal. Why doesnt it need some kind of mana item on its build path? I think {{item:1053}} is good but the {{item:1037}} is kinda off. Maybe replace the {{item:1037}} with {{item:3114}} that would make more sense.
from messing around on the PBE with it I have to agree it doesnt have an optimal build but i also feel it is in a weird spot due to its high cost. the passive seems like a great idea but for most champs i've tried it on it didnt really make a difference due to it being so far into the game. I feel as though the Build should be {{item:1053}} +{{item:1036}} +{{item:1036}} + 480g for 2000g and reduce its AD down to 30 or 40 then make it build into a higher AD version of it as the passive seems like an early game passive but the cost is really detrimental to rush it. From what i have experienced.
: Again, the purpose of these changes **aren't** for variety's sake or to improve summoner spells 'in a vacuum.' I don't care about adjustments for variety. In this particular case with Ghost - the playstyle best supported by Ghost - Run at you and train you down is the one that is currently dominant in the game even without Ghost being good. Purely buffing Ghost right now or nerfing Flash decreases the overall health of the game worse for some minor gains in variety. Cost / Benefit-wise, that's not worth it - even if the cost is so visible. That's not to say you aren't totally justified in hating Flash or thinking that it's ridiculous that it's prevalent - but taking the system as a whole - Flash may be the only summoner spell that actually deserves the slot, given how many things they allow you to do and the breadth of possibilities it opens for players. *(Teleport's getting close though)*
> Flash may be the only summoner spell that actually deserves the slot, given how many things they allow you to do and the breadth of possibilities it opens for players. Then why not have flash and then two summoners as you just stated why its bad for the game. And why not have it have more counterplay than just having flash yourself. You stated yourself that Flash's only counter is flash. Ghost has the counter of any cc and slow which makes it so you effectively didnt even use ghost. And why is changing it to a Dash a bad thing, the only thing i can think f is it will now telegraph where you went so its not a always get out of gank free card. At least with a dash it makes it so they can be stunned with something other than point click CC which Riot even stated they hate.
: > 1) You seem to like it entirely because you can make plays with it, which screams 'we just want the LCS to look cool' to me. Not at all. If you look at all the other summoner spells - Ghost/Exhaust/Ignite etc - those are all highly reliable dominate spells. In situation X, use Y - incur significant advantage that is functionally uncounterable. While Flash does have some of these situations (like the classic Annie bear) - it is balanced out by the wealth of other situations you can use it in - and thus you are considering what is the best use of Flash out of many available ones - rather than waiting for the one narrow moment. Imagine a world in which lanes consisted of Ghosts, Exhausts and Ignites, for example. If you are winning the lane -or- you can win the lane, you do - because these spells don't allow for a breadth of options. Flash enables characters to fundamentally do more. The other summoners' right now either strip away the opponent's options entirely -or- give you such a domineering speed advantage that your opponent's retreat is irrelevant. > 2) It's so prevalent. There are very few situations in which you don't want to take flash, such as playing Olaf. I'm not saying that Flash doesn't crimp variety. However, variety for variety's sake isn't a core value to me. However, I believe this is is primarily because the other summoner spells don't do a broad enough function or aren't useful in enough situations. The recent changes to Summoner Spells have been to widen their functionality to capture more cases - and thus make them stronger spells. Essentially, the solution to this is to widen the amount of situations other spells are relevant in - rather than narrow the situation of one. > 4) It actually encourages passive play. If I'm going against somebody that can insta burst me, I'm going to stay out of their range. With flash, their range is 400 units longer, and I have very little time to react. > 3) The counter to someone flashing at or away from you is to flash at or away from them. This encourages everyone to take flash. Most summoner spells by their nature, cancel each other out. (Excepting Heal/Teleport as they have more permanent effects.) A good counter to Ghost is to Ghost. A good counter to Exhaust is to Exhaust straight back. This is true of Flash, but it's not the only summoner spell guilty of it. You could make a combined argument of how Flash has more sins than other spells but ultimately the other Summoner Spells don't make for a better experience. They add variety without a lot of other gains. > 5) 5) It's much more difficult to time when an opponent has flash or not; do they have the support mastery that decreases summoner cd times? This is true of all summoner spells - everything that you've written could be applied to Ignite / Smite / Teleport and has domineering effects in those cases as well.
Flash was Taken 97% of the time for champs in the S3 worlds. I'm pretty sure that might suggest something as ghost was only taken on Tryndamere and Singed, those were the only champs where something was taken instead of Flash. Why not make Flash a Dash instead of an instant jump? to allow the possibility of some counter play to it as the counter play of all others is slows and Hard CC flash only has Hard CC as a counter.
: Considering that Twin Shadows build path was something like Book + Book + Null Magic Mantle - I guess I'm not seeing where Abyssal won't get you that advantage with an early Negatron cloak as a possibility - minus the fact that Negatron can be somewhat hard to build for if you get stomped super early. That said - the scope of the itemization changes isn't to work on heavy AP itemization - simply to clean up existing support AP itemization as a foundation. We're not really targetting core damage mages as the primary recipient of these changes.
What i mean is you are removing one of only 3 items (one is useless in every way to Manaless) that are AP/MR in the game to make another 80AP item. Is there any plans to make another item a AP/MR item?
: Who were you using it on? Abyssal has usually been core for that spot (in the AP/Top MR needs kind of deal)
early game kennen was a good item for him overall later to be switched for abyssal. but allowed him to deal with ryze and such. as it built out of his core items.
: Patch 4.5 - Itemization Changes
Threads probably been abandoned but I'll post anyway. Not that many will mind but now with only 1 AP/MR item is there any plans for another as I used {{item:3023}} As a early MR item if i was against Mages Top when i was playing a AP based champ. AS dropping 720 isn't really efficient as a AP based Champ.
: Given the rate at which Khazix or Talon purchased these items - it's probably a safe bet to say that they won't really be affected regardless of how Boots of Lucidity change. You're probably right that this change is not intended to help them. Bluntly, Talon won't really be healthy or good for the game unless he stops single target assassinating people with massive AoE damage. Being totally honest, if AD/CDR was better supported - you'd most likely see intermittent nerfs to almost all AD Casters. Most AD Casters are fairly overbearing now to play against and better itemization for them would push them over the top. That's not to say they shouldn't have better AD/CDR itemization. That's more of a statement on the size of the project and what would most likely have to change around it. It'd probably be a healthy change to the game overall though if they had better itemization.
I Guess my post was more questioning what are your plans for AD/CDR as Urgot requires a large amount of CDR to do well. Will he just be garbaged again or with this will you do some minor buffs/changes to him to accommodate him until he gets his rework in the upcoming years? Don't know if i worded this correctly for my meaning.
: [Planned 4.3] Itemization Changes (Boots / Duo Lane Gold Items / DShield / Ruby Crystal)
So the Change to Ionian's was made based off of the support champs not the other champs who used them? Such champs that also used them were Kha and Talon on occasion? And one has to admit unless they are blind that it is hard to justify playing talon in his current state. So does this mean you will be adding more AD based CDR itemization or leave them in the dust like previously. As right now it seems you have no intent to help AD casters.
: Team Builder will be coming back on Monday (2/10) and Tuesday (2/11) from 1:00 to 5:00 PM PST!
I put this in the Forum but it should be here as well About team builder @Lyte Would your team be able to setup a text input so that the player who wants to join could put a comment like "Learning to play Kennen" so that the team leader could choose before hand whether they were alright with someone who doesnt know a champ that well I believe this would reduce the toxicity of after and during match chat.
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Kobold

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