: More PBE changes coming at you for tomorrow (2/27) Buffs + a METRIC TON of feel improvements and bug fixes. Specific callout to the change that makes the Q attack able to be canceled. PLEASE GO TEST AND TELL ME HOW IT FEELS. > **Buffs:** > P > Ferocity falloff timer:: 6 >>> 8 > > Q > Q damage:: 20/50/80/110/140 (+1.1 TAD) >>> 30/60/90/120/150 (+1/1.05/1.1/1.15/1.2 TAD) > Emp Q ratio:: 1.3 TAD >>> 1.4 TAD > > R > Rengar's true vision now linger for .5 seconds after the spell ends. > > **Bug fixes and feel improvements:** > Lockout duration on gaining full ferocity for E and Q reduced to .1 seconds (from .25) > Only the spell used to gain full ferocity is locked out > > Q attacks can now be canceled (like a normal basic attack) > > If Rengar presses Q or W during the E cast time he will now buffer those spells and cast them when the E completes. > ---------Previously movement orders would eat the input and you'd have to press Q and W again. This should make his Leap - E - W - Q combo feel a lot smoother. > > Fixed a bug where tiamat could sometimes cause Rengar's basic attacks to become the Q animation > Fixed a bug where Emp Q's attack frame was slightly faster than base Q > > Still hunting down the bug where he sometimes drops aggro on his target when casting E and W. We think we have a fix, but we're not sure. It's weird... **Thoughts:** Overall Rango is looking to be a tad weak on live so we're throwing in some buffs. The Q changes I made pre-release seemed good to go back on. Guess is that his overall damage is simply too low at the moment. Additionally, increased the time Rengar has before losing ferocity out of combat to compensate for the fact that the new Q makes it harder to generate and keep up ferocity. Finally, letting the truesight on R linger a bit after he leaps in. Was weird to see an enemy over a wall, right click on them to jump, and then lose vision the second you start your leap. Should now lose vision a tad after the leap ends. I expect he may need even more after this, but I'm staying on the conservative side due to the multitude of feel improvements that we're also trying to ship out (they should raise his power in more subtle ways). If he remains weak after 8.5 we'll give him another bump in 8.6 (with special consideration for the possible dusk blade nerfs). On the bug fixing/feel side, you guys were right. The ferocity lockout felt bad, especially with new Q, so we're reducing it/removing it as much as possible. It's still important to have a brief lockout on the spell you used to get to max to prevent double casts, but that doesn't mean the other spells need to be locked out as well. Letting people cancel the Q animation for maximum BM. Expect this makes him feel smoother and have less instances of getting accidentally locked into attacking something you didn't want to. It's also a smol nerf however, as making the attack cancelable means enemies that flash out of vision will cause it to not complete. I think one of the many reasons Rengar players seem to dislike the E cast time is that it can cause you to lose your inputs on W and Q if cast during the E. Creates a feeling of "wait I thought I pushed that button." Added some spell buffering to help remedy this, now W and Q should cast automatically at the end of E should you push the buttons during its cast time (provided you aren't CC'd of course). Can't repro the de-aggro bug on internal environments, which makes me hope that we fixed it...If anyone has reliable repro steps pls let me know. Thanks a ton, feedback appreciated. > Bonus point: > If you play {{champion:79}} , we noticed that he had a similar bug to Rengar, where attacking with his W just as the buff expired would cause it to fizzle. Should be fixed now on PBE.
Please, Rengar feels _weak_ in live servers but he doesn't need that amount of buffs. QoL changes you made (Which are amazing) should hopefully be more then enough. Also keep in mind that the Fero hold time increase means he has more time to do his Triple Q combo or to engage with an EMP Q from stealth which is with that buff on ratios a lot of up front burst. I really hope you will at least tune the buffs down.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kiljeaden,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=E1U8ORum,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-02-13T19:49:09.353+0000) > > Your reaction time is shit tbh. You've seen his leap, aa and Q and then you ulted. You should have prepared your self since Xayah was marked. > > Plus Xayah reaction time is shit as well, she could've ult and survived. Ok first of all this is slowed. I admit that my reaction time there was a bit late, but that's the only time it was (if u want me to post the replay of the whole game I can). The rest of the game, as I explained, rengar couldn't touch xayah, I always ult on time. You say if she ulted she would have survived, yet you didn't even use your brain writing that, did you even bother reading what I wrote ? His ult did 900 and 1 Q did almost 1400 (reverted rengar can chain 3 Qs). That means that even if she ulted, healed and flashed, he can follow her up and kill her. He has the potential damage to kill her 3 times, and that's the issue here. There have been some balance changes to him, but they're still not enough.
And you obviously dont know Rengar, Xayah eventually. I'll let you read what i'v wrote to Sona Senpai. Also, if you get Rengar fed to the point of non-return as he dealt as you say 1400/EMP Q while Xayah was level 12 then you deserve to get destroyed by him. If you get Talon, Fizz, Kassadin to this point you wont see the light as well.
: The problem isn't the reaction time of both of them. The problem is that neither of them can't do anything to react against it until rengar decides to land. Rengar's Q (perhaps + W) would've instantly killed Xayah had he activated it before (or while) using R, and even then both of them had barely more or less than half a second to be able to do anything against Rengar. (He had red and it didn't even proc the damage lol). And lately, PBE seems to have FPS/ping issues, it seems. Either of them could've influenced the outcome.
Nice to know that PBE aren't the live servers and thus doesn't have FPS/ping issues thus they will be able to react. If you have a decent reaction time, you press R as soon as you see the mark fade from your head, which means he is leaping and nonetheless you have a prewarning to tell you BE READY to R. Janna could've shielded, which isn't the case. Xayah could've R'ed which isn't the case. Janna ulted after Rengar's leap, AA and Q. Janna could've prepared a Q to cnock up Rengar. Depends on CD, Xayah could've healed, flashed. Xayah was Marked and kept going in like a retard. If she was decent she would've just back up. This is what i call bad reactivity rather then "no counter play". Also since Rengar Got full ferocity after his leap this means he Q'ed before leap, the Q used after is EMP Q. So not really he didn't kill her with a Rotation of basic spells as you tend to pretend "If he q'ed on leap". As a personal experience i played against Janna players who didn't even let me get in my mid-travel time. I felt useless because they where reactive. AND i'm speaking about the old version of Rengar before the Rework and before the 6.2 nerfs. Also played into Thresh's who would just fley me out of my leap and i die like a peice of shit. There is counter play, if you dont use what is supposed to be your counter play and in this case, shields, ults then your fault.
: After 30+ games, I haven't seen a single rengar not get fed. I literally did all I could to stop him, to no avail. In a normal scenario, another champ would be so behind and useless under the same circumstances. I took most of his camps, warded his jungler and warned my team of his positions, and yet he still got fed and manages to 1v5. I played for example against a Lee Sin, I did the same strategy (I rarely tryhard on PBE, but I did it to compare with rengar games), the Lee Sin was 4 levels behind, if he ganks he dies 100%. Same with any other champ other than rengar. I never, and I insist on NEVER get tilted in a game whatsoever, but with this rengar revert, I've been pissed to the point where I lost all joy of playing. What's fun in getting 1v5ed by a rengar (grey screen simulator pretty much), or watch the rengar on your team kill everyone and you just follow him and destroy towers ? Assassins were changed so that it was easier for you to fight them, give you more windows to fight, where are they here ? I literally interrupted his jump, and the Kog'Maw still died, even though I used Locket and Lantern. I played Janna, still nothing, I played WW, he couldn't 1v1 me, but when he aces your team, what can a WW do ? I'm gonna stop playing PBE now, since all this patch does is tilt me more and more, and I hope from the bottom of my heart that RIOT either nerfs him to the ground or cancels the revert. Here's a gif that sums up rengar on PBE: https://media.giphy.com/media/xUOwFVNPf6y8jT63cI/giphy.gif And that's the case where he's not insanely fed since I've been countering him with my ult so he stopped trying to kill xayah, so he switched to yasuo and got fed on him since there was no one to counter him. Imagine what it would do when he actually gets fed. Just look at the damage dealt, just his ultimate killed her, but even if he missed it, you can see that his Q did 1400 dmg, meaning she dies either way.
Your reaction time is shit tbh. You've seen his leap, aa and Q and then you ulted. You should have prepared your self since Xayah was marked. Plus Xayah reaction time is shit as well, she could've ult and survived.
: Rengar Leap change that has ALWAYS been needed
: Has anyone else had the problem where, in the case where Kha'zix is on the other team, and you win the hunt quest, you losing all your AD? I literally went from Zero to hero by getting that Kill.
Yup. It should be fixed i suppose.
: proper combo on live rengar deals 3.3k dmg to 100 armor target in 1 sec. most assassins deal 2k+ dmg in less than 1 sec. blue kayn e q auto . less than 1 sec. deals 1.8k + 1.8k*45% dmg. in a basic skill rotation. so stop being cry baby, rengar right now is balanced and actually weaker , in late game , a bit better in mid game than live rengar.
Rengar weaker in late? You crazy?
: PBE Rengar Is Too Strong
As a Rengar player, i played a lot of Rengar and i do agree that he has too much Damages, he obviously scales too well with almost nothing. I would either nerf the Q and EMP Q late Ratios or Reduce the Bonus AD on Bonetooth on last trophies, along with reducing a bit the armor shred on his ult. The problem is that Crit have too much burst and too much DPS while Crit should be the DPS option as Riot Jinxylord said on the feedback thread, Nerfing the Late game Ratio wouldn't impact Lethality Rengar, his assassinations would still be powerful enough mid-game and early-game and would fall off as usual with assassins late game, These changes would just significantly nerf the Crit burst damages which are the issue IMO.
: Please revert the speed change on leap, this is a nerf to fighting in bushes and the bola combo isn't hard once you learn it. Plus max range leaps feel awkward now to me as a Rengar player since s2 I don't like this change =(
It was like then before the rework lol.
: I'm curious, Mr. Jinxylord, Do you guys plan on letting Rengo keep the qss on his W paired with his Q revert? Just wondering
Yes, no changes to the EMP W effects for now. However Cooldown is subject to changes.
: A number of bug fixes coming tomorrow (2/9) > **Bugs:** > Fixed a bug where Q would hitch Rengar's movement on activation > Fixed a bug where the correct Q CD would not display while ferocity was active. > Fixed a bug where Q would be lost if it was being held when ferocity activates. The Q buff is still removed, but the cooldown will be set to 0. > > **Tuning:** > Leap speed decreased slightly (by about 10%) > > Fixed a bug where Rengar's bonetooth necklace's bonus AD mult was multiplying itself. (This is effectively a nerf. Bonus AD from 5 stacks is now correct at 25% (from 33%), may need to buff the bonetooth mult in the future as compensation, but we expect that Rengar's current burst is tuned a bit too high). > > **Feature:** > Leaps that hit while Q is primed now play the Q hit SFX. **Thoughts:** Was able to fix a number of Q bugs you guys called out. Thanks <3 The bonetooth bugfix nerfs Rango's lategame AD. We think his damage might be too high however so will test without compensation for the time being. PLEASE GIVE FEEDBACK ON THE LEAP SPEED CHANGE IT IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A NERF. Was surprised to hear that some Rengar players wanted their leap to be _slower_ in order to make the in-air bola combo feel smoother. If this change actually achieves that it seems like a win-win. Rengar feels better to play and opponents have a tad more time to react. If this change makes him feel worse I'd be likely to revert it. Let me know.
Leap slowed by 10% is amazing. Its x100 times better, i feel. New bug: If you use emp Q the Q is refreshed anyway.
: The triple q was an exploit in season 3 where you would use q, wait, jump from bush/r, use your q to gain your fifth ferocity stack, use empowered q, and then your normal q, which was off cd, could be used again. That's been gone for like 5 years bub. Empowering a spell while leaping has been part of Rengo's kit since release. (Empowered bolo mid-jump) There will be no fix. There is nothing to fix. {{champion:107}}
You can have 4 ferocity, EMP Q jump in full spells EMP Q again. Its three Q's. If you dont know that there is another version of triple Q actually you're dumb bub* You work like that? Whenever somebody says words about nerfing Rengar you down vote him?
: Rengar does 400+ damage at Level 1 within 1 second.
Yes, this triple Q/Emp Q in leap issue will be fixed soon enough. Dont worry.
: You can't flash the reverted rengar, I've tried countless times to flash him, damage goes through every single time. Level 6 rengar with 1 kill dives me (Yasuo), instant OS me. Where's the counter play ? The non-reverted rengar you could flash the damage, not this one. He just ults and kills, and you can't do anything about it. Every game I see a rengar, he hard carries in all of them.
No way Rengar dived you just like that. Either he was ahead by a lot and in this case its logic or you were mid life and its logic as well.
: Rengar Rework Thoughts
Nice. Adc/Ahri main i guess. Learn to flash correctly, to zhonia in time to avoid burst damage to not overextend. People got used to useless assassins with cast times in every ability. I'm bored of playing a game and then adc 1.5k crit per aa lul counter play to his kit no kappa xd lol
: Why the down vote lol, reducing q hold time doesn't solve Rengar Triple Q'ing on top lane
Yes, but he never said its gonna stay like that. If he find it overwhelming he will change it regard less of the down votes :)
: PBE update for tomorrow (2/7) Tomorrow you're going to see a number of bug fixes and tweaks flowing in for Rengar. Here's the list: >**Balance Tuning:** >Q - >Buff duration for on-next-hit:: 5 >>> 3 W - >Empowered W base damage increased to 60 (to match base W) R- >Enemy champions near the closest enemy who can sense Rengar are also alerted of Rengar's presence > Armor shred on ult 10/14/18 >>> 12/18/24 > >**Tweaks and Bug fixes:** > W animation no longer interrupts attack animations > > Q no longer has old Q's range indicator > Tiamat active now plays Q's animation (complete with particles) if used in combination with Q (plays normal attack animation otherwise). > > Ult no longer crits targets Rengar attacks in melee range (without leaping) and now properly applies the bonus damage and shred. **Thoughts** I was thinking of "solving" triple Q by making the empowered Q buff fall off when the Passive timer does. A number of you suggested that it would feel better and not be all that abusive if we just reduced the amount of time he can hold the Q after casting it. Seemed like a good middle ground. We'll see how it plays out. Ran some numbers on comparative shreds and the R shred felt low, especially late game. Bumping it up as I want to encourage jumping to closest. This could be risky and may need to revert once we do a more complete damage analysis The overall goal of reducing range at which enemies sense Rengar with the updated ult was to allow him to better dodge wards and pick off solo targets. The intended counterplay in a grouped up situation is that the person he's stalking's allies can still pickup on the fact that Rengar is coming and move in to help out. As such, trying out a mechanic where the closest target (the one with the eyes above them) adds "Rengar sense"( the screen tint everyone gets when in the reveal range) to allies in a circle around them. Hope is that this mechanic makes it easier for a Braum who's chilling within a screen of his ADC to realize they're getting hunted and move in to help, while still preserving the ult's ability to skirt around enemy vision. People said my tiamat implementation could be better so I tried again. Please tell me if it's finally working the way you expect. FINALLY - Thank you to the people who sent me Rengar's old bonetooth icons <3 I tested them internally and decided NOT to swap them with what's on live. Why? Given how small they are, the black background makes them pretty hard to read. At a glance, it was much more difficult to tell how many Bonetooth stacks you had. Thanks for the all the feedback and help. Iteration continues. Does anyone have any strong feelings for or against Mecha Rengar's new Q animation?
I personally "Strongly" love the new animation of Mecha Rengar. He already have 3 skins + classic that play the stab animation. Having one that changes it is really cool in my opinion. Though i would love to see more VFX on the slash so that it feels even more powerful !
: Yeah if i pick Shaco in the PBE i have far more success than picking Reverted Rengar lol
Lol you're bad at shaco it doesn't mean it has no sucess
: that's it? is it safe to say this rework is another failure and rengar is going to get reworked again next year? is rengar the new ryze? you changed nothing, rengar still routinely doubles every other assassin damage (bare khazix who has the same exact design issues) by the end of the game and one shot or close to it players on sight from 700 range with a full combo (double Q = 60%, W+E+R= the remaining 30-40%) in O.1 second. it's lame and stupid, it's not interesting to play nor to play against. where is the challenge? where is the fairplay? where is the gameplay? you guys at Riot simply don't know how to design melee champions, it's sad but it's true.
Create your own game; design champions. Will see if you're that genius
: We didn't want to create a void in the center in case that would feel like a damaging AoE Zone ; u ; Same with the ult walls - they're supposed to look like terrain and not something that can passively damage you. Have you checked it out in game? The stars in the walls have this scroll-y effect as you move the camera around :)
Yes, it looks better when its in motion instead of a picture. But it still feels a bit bland for me at the very least. I was thinking of something like [Warring kingdom Jarvan IV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6MC_NRmDdE), if you look at his ult it has some rifts added which makes it look really sick compared to the classic ult. Maybe take those rifts & color them with purple effects to make it feels more powerful? I do agree though that a big thing in the middle could cause some miss understanding.
: Hi friends, today (2/6) Rengar makes his glorious return to PBE. Oh boy. Here's what's changed since we last saw him (more to come over the next few days as we finish bug sweeps and iterate on art). As mentioned earlier, removed the AP buffs due to game health worries for that build (we're already buffing it with Q lich bane synergy) Felt like overall damage was too low compared to live with the removal of upfront damage on ult so increasing Q scaling. Experimenting with W buffs to give a healthier jungle clear and faster ferocity generation. Some concerns that this makes top-lane bruiser Rengar too strong so may need to revert. Target ship date is 8.4, so we've got one last week to iterate on feedback. Thanks for all your help! > P - > Bonetooth no longer increases AP > > Q - > Damage:: 10/45/80/115/150 (+1.1 TAD) >>> 30/60/90/120/150 (+1/1.05/1.1/1.15/1.2 TAD) > Emp Q Ratio:: 1.3 TAD >>> 1.35 TAD > > W- > Damage:: 50/80/110/140/170 >>> 60/90/120/150/180 > Cooldown:: 20/18/16/14/12 >>> 16/14.5/13/11.5/10 > > R - > Removed AP ratio
Quick highlight of what is missing. Please think about fixing these issues, or at least work on them since time is counted now. 1. Q still disappear for no reason if you have three Ferocity and an activated Q and then use any spell to get a fourth ferocity stack. 2. Ult still gives free critical strike if you're in melee range. 3. Tiamat active is always playing the Q animation; Quick explanation of how it used to work: Tiamat plays normal AA animation if the Q isn't activated; if Q is activated it plays the Q AA animation+particules instead for the Q duration and around 1 second after the Q fades or gets used. 4. W still cancels the Q animation; Q should cancel the W animation however the W shouldn't play over the Q, it feels awkward. 5. Missing hitting SFX of the Q if used with a leap. 6. Leap range is wrongly displayed on HH/NH/SSW/Classic. 7. Normal aa leap cannot critical strike.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Dark Star Jarvan IV!
For a first look, i think his ult feels uncompleted. Could make some purple rifts in the surrounding areas of his ult and add a dark star /bigger rift in the middle of it. Would probably make his ult feel more powerful.
: An open letter to riot (players - read and comment YOUR opinion please)
League is the only game made by Riot Games, be sure its their baby and they wont abandon it whatsoever. About feeding, keep in your mind that PBE hasn't the term "Level" in it, by this i mean people are matched and not matched with people with the same level. You can have a high elo player matched with a low elo play of course this leads to some miss understanding but the fact that somebody is having a terrible game doesn't mean he is inting it may mean he doesn't match the level of his opposent and if you look at it closely it doesn't matter as long as he try his best to be helpful. After all it is a test server. About leavers, same idea keep in mind its a test server and leavers may just be people who have a problem with their client or a bug or ... However its of course frustrating when a player leaves the game by him self. in general it sucks to see these people ruining the experience of other players either by their attitude or by leaving games intentionally, maybe even both in some cases. I suggest you to report them, if you're sanctioned in PBE you will be sanctioned as well on your live account. They are related, i think. I somehow agree with you, toxic players shouldn't be allowed to play on PBE because they dont deserve to play league/online games at all.
: Pls riot dont cancel the rework of rengar, he was okey, only that he could one shoot in late if hes feed. Just dont cancel it or make the rengar of the season 5 with his ferocity charged, his R without extra damage...
xD Its time to start reading.
: I assume the original q animation was just completely wiped from their data base so they had to start from scratch.
No, Rengarmains have mods that allow them to have old animations/sounds, a lot of those sounds/particles where in the game data. So not really i think its more of a "visual update" instead.
: yeah bad grammar there i trying to say if there a way to keep the live server q when old pbe q go to live server
Oh, no its not possible sadly. It would be a balance nightmare for Riot. So for sure not happening.
: You explain things so well. Thank you!
No problem ! Call me if you need another explanation :)
: Rito jinxylord Is there any way to keep the live q when old q from pbe ends on lives servers.? like a optional system to choose in champion selection for rengar
Is this a real suggest? Or maybe you're trolling? And its Riot, not Rito. At least when you request something and especially when its a troll suggestion be polite.
: he would still pounce if he enters a brush with or without R, makes playing around brushes more satisfying both for rengar and his opponents, besides R dash is both redundant and problematic, it's redundant because he doesn't need it when he already has 500 movement speed, a potential ranged slow/stun and a potential dash from his passive, and it's problematic because it leads to both bad gameplay and lack of counterplay where the rengar player simply presses all his buttons like a moron and his opponent gets one shot on sight from 700+ range no matter what. you could even do some cool tweaks like increasing passive jump distance from brush when R is active (ever thought zac dash distance was nuts? rengar might also be able to do that), or give him more movement speed that stacks up every time he enters a different bush when R is active etc, since his gameplay pattern is now fun, interactive and healthy, lots of cool options. btw, evelynn has no real gap closer and she is doing great, no reason rengar who both has a conditional dash and tons of movement speed, and a ranged crowd control spell similar to evelynn Q can't perform just as well , the change is frankly minor and only affects his R combo in the event there are no brush nearby, being the sole reason rengar keeps getting reworked.
Yo i'm not saying idea is bad but Riot have already talk about that in the 4.5 Rework. Turned out mains didn't like the idea at all. They want Rengar to have a stealth ult that makes him leap and according to them "Its a core ability that match his theme" and if it gets removed then Rengar isn't Rengar And i cannot disagree with this statement imagine if Swain got a Syndra type of ult instead of his know transformation. Would swain players like it? Nah, Actually they are not happy with other changes so imagine something that is charismatic as his ult. So fairly enough, even if it will make Rengar more balanced, even you can make it have counter play, even if you makes Rengar more sneaky with invisibily instead of camouflage as a trade off for the leap, ... ect. Plus Evelynn is perma camouflaged, has an escape/dash with her ult.
: have you considered removing the free dash from rengar R? seems like that would solve all gameplay issues and solidify rengar character as the king of the wild. 1. he would still be able to pounce on someone when his R is up, but he would have to do so using the dash from his passive, which in return reinforces rengar identity where brushes are core to his gameplay, both from his perspective, and the one of his preys who now have to watch out for said brushes more than ever 2. if there are no brush, the ideal gameplay pattern would require rengar to actually land his E bola first to engage his opponent on his terms, his best designed spell both aesthetically and gameplay wise, it looks dope and it's healthy design, similar to how evelynn does it from out of sight with her Q projectile on marked targets. 3. and if rengar is fed or very confident, he can still try to bum rush his prey not using his bola at all with the frenetic movement speed buff he gets from his R in open sight, which leaves him vulnerable and open to retaliation for a short moment before he eventually catches his target, again similarly to how evelynn can kill someone without using her charm later on. thoughts?
No kappa. You want Rengar not to be able to leap from his ult? Like no Kappa? This suggestion is serious or is it a prank? Do i need to remind you that he has only one gap closer?
: Pls fix tiamat animation With q. The one one pbe is not like old one. Also a cool idea would be to make fero stacks do not fall and gaining stacks only when hitting an enemy. (its not that Broken to have an emp ability with ur ult, Just nerf the numbers if needed) With that change u could make emp w to has a stantard healing (like old emp w) that is inversely proportional With The 1.5 healing.
: I believe that letting the ferocity accumulate out of combat again and setting the maximum stacks to 5 would be a good idea, then I could remove the change from gaining ferocity in the jump of the R and would end up with several bugs, how do we test this? would not be a bad idea.
: You can't deny that it's actually insane how easy it is to literally one shot people with ult. Duskblade, serrated dirk and 2 longswords with at least 2 passive stacks and you can one shot the enemy adc with ult. It's just not right, there's no viable counterplay again against a fed Rengar, yet again. Especially as an ADC. You can't deny how op the new (old) Rengar is now. Riot shifted power to Rengar's other abilities back when they changed his Q, to balance out his power. Basically Q got nerfed hard and everything else got buffed a lot (ex. W, R and Passive). But since they've brought back the new Q, Rengar is on fucking steroids with his busted Q being reverted as well as his pumped up W and R from the assassin update. I had to build Ninja Tabi, Phantom Dancer, Death's Dance AND a Randuin's Omen as ADC in order to just BARELY survive Rengar who would go for me EVERY single time his ult was up. And why wouldn't he, he could one-shot me starting at 15 minutes. He wasn't ridiculously fed early game either. That's something you never saw old Rengar do, I attribute it to the delay on his Q damage and the fact that he could miss/you could flash to dodge it. Now it's just instantly 1.5k at 20 minutes, and there's nothing you can do (assuming you don't build Zhyonas 2nd item). Not to mention his ult being on like a 40 second cooldown. It's making me pull out my hair. If this goes through, he WILL be pick or ban. I guarantee you.
Wanna know a thing? Rengar used to do that thing, while having a snare from true stealth not camouflage with only tiamat and serrated dirk. Yet none played him/ banned him except his mains. You needed actually game knowledge to know when or not you should/are able to go for the kill. People will play it a week, two? and then as every change that people like you call OP will fall down (Oh look azir changes made him op op, azir? it exists?)
: meh, gameplay still as stupid as ever, mash RQQEWAA one shot someone the end. now you can do that building dumb items too like rabadon deathcap, a cat with a hat, that's fancy I suppose, doesn't change anything tho, gameplay is identical
Live servers worse. R, hope your target wont go behind the tank supp with billion of shields heals, leap, E, W, Q, EMP Q/w. If you killed noice if did not rip i'm dead lol.
: 2 patch notes today (I was off Friday at an anime convention pretending to be 707 so didn't get a chance to write them then, apologies) Patch Notes for 1/29 (these should already be out on pbe) > R- > No longer grants ferocity on leaping to closest target (IGNORE THE TOOLTIP, IT IS BUGGED) Patch Notes for 1/30 (tomorrow) > Stats- > Base AS:: .625 + 3.5%/lvl >>> .666 + 3%/lvl > Sped up certain attack animations to make them feel crisper and better match with when the damage comes out (this is purely a visual change) > > P- > No longer plays Q animation when leaping with Q (looked bad) > Now plays Q Hit VFX when hitting target with leap Q (looks dope) > > W - > AP Ratio reverted:: .7 >>> .8 > > E - > AP Ratio Removed > > R- > Closest target leap bonus: 30% TAD + 60% AP Bonus physical damage +10/14/18 Armor shred for 4 seconds. > Fixed tooltip to reflect this > > Sounds- > All sounds are being reverted to live states until the 8/4 PBE cycle starts next week. > THEY WILL COME BACK, THIS IS TO PREVENT THE NEW ONES FROM SHIPPING TO LIVE IN 8.3 > >Skins - >Adding a new Q animation for Mecha Rango. (This is currently very WIP, still needs VFX, sound and general iteration) Context: Don't worry about the sounds being gone tomorrow, we'll bring them back. We had to revert them for the week so we can cut the 8.3 branch and ship it to live. Rengar's target patch remains 8.4 and the sounds will be back for the 8.4 PBE cycle. All gameplay changes will remain playable on PBE. Mecha Rango feels a little off now that his old Q is back, but his skin model has a SLASHY blade and not a STABBY knife. We're going to try giving him a fancy new SLASHY animation for Mecha Q. (THIS MAY NOT WORK OUT, IT IS TEMP, WE ARE TESTING) The base AS changes are there with the consideration that he basic attacks a lot more with reverted Q + his jungle clear has gotten a bit worse with the removal of live Q's AoE. Attacks should feel smoother as a result because Attack Speed makes everything feel 10/10. Reverting the AP ratio changes on W and E as I expect AP Rengar may already be getting a lot better only with the boonetooth changes and Q lich bane synergy. Additionally, E AP ratio wasn't adding much (since he maxes the spell last and it deals physical) and it felt bad to lower W ratio if we don't need to (since he uses it to clear/farm and ROAR-ROAR). Removing the ferocity from the ult as giving any amount of it on leap messes with Rengar's combo flow (turns out lions love casting tons of spells IN THE AIR, who knew). The combos as they exist on live are pretty smooth (Ult --> jump --> Basic spells --> Ferocity finisher) and it feels low value to mess with that. Something that's delayed (offering more counterplay) AND feels good for Rengar? Yes pls. So why not just remove the closest bonus entirely? We're not removing it because we think its GOOD COUNTERPLAY that the enemy team can body-block for their squishies to prevent Rengar from getting max value if he leaps on them. The difficulty we're running into here though is that the bonus has to be WORTH BLOCKING, but also NOT JUST ONE-SHOT A GUY. That's why we're trying a shred + small amount of cosmetic damage. Idea here is that it lowers up-front burst (giving time to flash), but then gives a lot of strength to Rengar's followup if his opponent can't get away (therefore making it worth it for opponents to block him from getting a "closest leap" on a squishy). As always, we're still iterating so not all of this will stay. Trying to make Rango as cool as possible while still offering adequate counterplay for his opponents. Please give feedback! Appreciate all your help <3.
If the bonus of the ult isn't enough to be body blocked, why should i care about who is body blocking it anyway?
: Does Riot know that If this goes live, Rengar is Pick or Ban? Its just stupid. Only Rengars I can win vs is if the player has ZERO clue how to play Rengar. Anyone that has even the smallest skill with him dominate. 1500 damage Auto attacks yep total ok.. I really question the drinking and drug use at Riot's "Design" and "Balance" Teams.
You're a genius boy. Keep going like this. Will see if it stays on the top of pick/ban after two weeks of its release. Old Rengar did 1700 damage with EMP Q and though none picked him
: AP Rengar and future changes
Honestly, dont take exemple of AP Rengar changes, they're not balanced in any way. There is a big chance that it does not go to live, and i hope so. Because he has the AD Rengar burst in AoE. Much like old Talon a suicide bomb that nukes opponents and either kills them or die, and one of Talon Rework goals was to change this thing.
: Rengar Q revert
He does that on live servers, the difference is now he looks sick while in live servers he looks like a monkey with aids.
: 1/26 PBE changes (In honor of Monster Hunter: Rengar) > > P - > Fixed a bug where the %AP boost on bonetooth wasn't working > > Q - > Empowered Q now consumes ferocity on cast (should fix a number of bugs and feel issues) > > W - > AP Ratio:: .8 >>> .7 > > R - > Closest enemy leap bonus:: gain 4 Ferocity >>> gain 3 Ferocity and shred the target's armor by 10/14/18 for 4 seconds. > > Cool Stuff - > Tiamat now uses the Q animation > Casting Q before you leap will now cause the leap to use Q animation > >We're looking into bonetooth VO spam. No updates as of yet. **Context:** Turns out bonetooth wasn't amping AP. Now it does. This terrifies me. AP Rengar had already been doing well thanks to the E ratio and Q lichbane synergy. I nerfed W AP ratio to compensate. Still worried that AP Rango may not be different enough from AD and will be "just better" if we make it viable. Will continue to validate. Full ferocity on ult opened up some cool plays, but due to the timing of the ferocity gain (start of leap) it was messing with Rengar's ability to combo. If he wanted to cast something in air (say Bola Strike) he's be forced to empower it. Hope is that by reducing the gain to 3 it will offer more reaction time for opponents to flash while at the same time opening up a lot of creative combos that will make Rengar feel better as well (air skill into empowered skill). Still curious if ferocity is a good direction for the R. Iteration continues. Added an armor shred to the leap on closest bonus because we feel it is important that it empower him MORE vs. the guy he leaps on (was seeing instances of him leaping to a random tank to get the ferocity and then flashing on the ADC to murder them). Lethality Rengar has been suffering in our tests since the removal of the crit/bonus damage so a shred seemed like a good middle ground to help him out. The damage isn't upfront, so he can be flashed, but his followup damage will be much stronger (due to how flat shreds/lethality synergize with themselves). Like full ferocity, this may be the wrong direction, will continue to explore and validate (feedback is appreciated). Also noticed that people liked the old Tiamat and Q leap animations so we hooked up new ones with the assets we have. Did we get it right? Particles look weird on Q leap right now, but if the direction is good, those can be cleaned up in the future.
Think about removing the Q animation on leap, its awful. Really awful
: I am not in favor with this change. AP Rengar is stupid OP in the hands of a mildly competent player. The burst is so bad it makes being near any bush an issue. Enemy junglers that are not tanks die constantly if the Rengar is counter jungling. Its a BAD move to add this back into the game. WTF Riot are you crazy?
Ap Rengar is Op yes, but these changes has no relation with Rengar destroying squishies, he already does on live servers if the player has a mind as you say, except he looks like having a spasm each time he Q's in.
: No offense but you actually ruined your revert today. This is the clunkiest thing you have ever created. The initial rework was fine, sure the damage might have been too high but you can change numbers. What you did to Rengar today is actually a clear lack of understanding how the champion does damage. The Q attack speed for only 2 autos is garbage, the E didn't need AP, and the Full Ferocity during a leap ruins his combo. Please go back to the one you initially came out with. The one you have now is so awful.
Cool to see a guy who both dont understand the meaning of Testing and cant read changes. Maybe you're blind.
: Hello, I have a question. Why is the old ferocity system, with 5 stacks and not loosing them + after you ult they slowly go back to 5, not being tested on live servers/viable anymore? I actually really enjoyed the playstyle back then and I don't think it will be op when you get the dmg numbers right. Ty for reading Enjoy your weekend!
Because its not healthy? We're not testing what Rengar mains want or loved. We test what could possible make Rengar better for Rengar players while keeping it fair for opponents, and the thing you talk about isn't good in any of those ways.
: 1/26 PBE changes (In honor of Monster Hunter: Rengar) > > P - > Fixed a bug where the %AP boost on bonetooth wasn't working > > Q - > Empowered Q now consumes ferocity on cast (should fix a number of bugs and feel issues) > > W - > AP Ratio:: .8 >>> .7 > > R - > Closest enemy leap bonus:: gain 4 Ferocity >>> gain 3 Ferocity and shred the target's armor by 10/14/18 for 4 seconds. > > Cool Stuff - > Tiamat now uses the Q animation > Casting Q before you leap will now cause the leap to use Q animation > >We're looking into bonetooth VO spam. No updates as of yet. **Context:** Turns out bonetooth wasn't amping AP. Now it does. This terrifies me. AP Rengar had already been doing well thanks to the E ratio and Q lichbane synergy. I nerfed W AP ratio to compensate. Still worried that AP Rango may not be different enough from AD and will be "just better" if we make it viable. Will continue to validate. Full ferocity on ult opened up some cool plays, but due to the timing of the ferocity gain (start of leap) it was messing with Rengar's ability to combo. If he wanted to cast something in air (say Bola Strike) he's be forced to empower it. Hope is that by reducing the gain to 3 it will offer more reaction time for opponents to flash while at the same time opening up a lot of creative combos that will make Rengar feel better as well (air skill into empowered skill). Still curious if ferocity is a good direction for the R. Iteration continues. Added an armor shred to the leap on closest bonus because we feel it is important that it empower him MORE vs. the guy he leaps on (was seeing instances of him leaping to a random tank to get the ferocity and then flashing on the ADC to murder them). Lethality Rengar has been suffering in our tests since the removal of the crit/bonus damage so a shred seemed like a good middle ground to help him out. The damage isn't upfront, so he can be flashed, but his followup damage will be much stronger (due to how flat shreds/lethality synergize with themselves). Like full ferocity, this may be the wrong direction, will continue to explore and validate (feedback is appreciated). Also noticed that people liked the old Tiamat and Q leap animations so we hooked up new ones with the assets we have. Did we get it right? Particles look weird on Q leap right now, but if the direction is good, those can be cleaned up in the future.
Also for the "bugs" that affect gameplay. 1.) If you have three Ferocity and activate your Q then use either E or W to get a fourth Ferocity stack the Q is consumed for no real reason. 2.) If you jump in with Q and the target dies before you land on her, the Q is not consumed and does not give Ferocity as opposed to the old Rengar where it consumed Q and granted a Ferocity stack. These ones are really annoying especially for top lane.
: This is assuming you're stationary. If you start moving away from him as soon as you notice its probably going to be more like 3.5 seconds anyway, which is ample time for your allies to position themselves between you and him considering you already know what angle he's coming from.
After few games, i think it is fine. Played Rengar and felt like opponents had large amount of time to react (Though i'm bad at Rengar so maybe it helps a bit). Also felt like i had time to React his combo when played into him. As i said it was scary from the first point of view, maybe because the drop from 4000 to 1600 looks HUGE at first view. MB.
: [Video Settings / Swain] Enabling "Hide eye candy" does not disable Swain's crows.
Additionally it adds more useless visuals on the screen for those who dont have a good machine. Making them losing some FPS and for them each FPS lost is huge.
: As a long time Rengar main, so far I absolutely LOVE the changes, so thank you to all of you Rioters that have contributed to making these changes. Now on to some constructive feedback: 1. I can't quite put my thumb on it, but the reverted Q just feels... less fluid than I remember. It could just be my higher ping but even when at around a somewhat stable ping within the range of 80 it seems like it just refuses to cast despite me mashing the key haha. 2. This was to be expected but Rengar's jungle clears obviously have suffered after losing the AoE from the breast stroke. This combined with the Q's early damages being lower (base damage of 10 as opposed to the base damage of 30 before the rework) just seems rather bad. Have you guys ever considered adding a mechanic to his Q that adds some sort of additional damage or some sort of AoE effect to only jungle monsters, similar to Kayn's Q? 3. Kind on the same idea on the last point but I know that in the past few weeks you guys talked about wanting to make the Q damage weaker because of the scaling of the bonetooth but is hitting it in the early game really where you want to apply the nerfs? Obviously at level 1 Rengar can't really one shot anyone, and the current Q on the PBE hits a base damage of 150 at rank 5 which is the same as the old old Q, so I don't really understand why that decision was made based on the previous logic communicated to us. 4. I think removing the free crit was a really great choice, lots of free damage just slapped onto the first auto always seemed rather boring to me. But is this change of adding free bonus damage any better? Sure it finally adds some sort of scaling to his ultimate which is really awesome don't get me wrong! And also adds some sort of additional AP damage aside from his W if you're going that route. But this just makes him rely on free bonus damage for a one shot which does in all fairness require better positioning, I just think non decaying ferocity (preparing for a hunt) was a much more thematic friendly idea and generally just less bland and unfun than some free damage. I don't really expect this to be changed because that would bring back root from stealth which you guys didn't like (understandable) I was just wondering if you guys had any other ideas on this that were more interesting. That being said, still find it healthier than a free crit. If you made it this far thank you for reading all of this, I appreciate your communication with us and your willingness to work on a champion beloved by myself and others.
Ehhh i could do Red > Raptors > Wolves > Blue > Gromp and stay with around 40% HP. Took the AS Rune also. Krugs are hard to do early however.
: Here are my two cents as a Rengar victim. Its very scary seeing your adc die from just rengar E R tiamant proc (rengar had youmuus, duskblade, and a tiamant) Rengar runs through 2 towers to get to my adc at my inhib, rengar uses one E, then uses his ult auto, then uses Tiamant, then my adc was dead (who was full health). As a Rengar victim, his ult dmg seems really high, and the rengar ult stealth changes seems to be leaving players very little time to react at all before rengar is jumping on your face for 1000+ dmg in a quarter second, but its hard to tell if its the stealth changes that make his ult much harder to counter play, when rengar's extra movement speed also seems a bit to strong with how small the range indicator for knowing if rengar is hunting you. So its probably a combination of the new extra movement speed, and smaller range indicator (for if rengar is hunting you) that gives you very little time to react to rengar ulting you. Rengar ult dmg is definitely to high atm, either need rengar R base dmg nerf, or AD scaling nerf, or just any sort slight dmg nerf to Rengars new ult is much need. Its mostly just the changes to Rengars R that i think are to strong atm, as a Rengar victim.
Rengar ULT damges will be tuned down. I still think the 50%/60% bonus MS is too much. 40% Was good it didn't need a buff IMO.
: some stuff i wanted to point out gameplay-wise not VFX or SFX (for that see other comments(stuff that hopefully happens with vfx and sfx)): 1. the ult dmg feels very high. plus the more movespeed and the short radius for the target notification could get problematic. 2. in the jungle u lose alot of health. basiclly need to avoid raptors and krugs. for sustain have u guys tried reverting the grey health nerf and bring it back from 75% against monsters to 100%? or bumping up the lvl1 Q from 10 to 30? 3. empowered Q doesnt consume the ferocity if you press Q only if you hit someone. leading to casting empowered E instead of empowered Q ty for reverting rengar {{sticker:katarina-love}}
Ehhh i could do Red > Raptors > Wolves > Blue > Gromp and stay with around 40% HP. Took the AS Rune also. Krugs are hard to do early however.
: First and foremost, I am very excited to have the old q back. It just feels so... savage. Which is perfect for Rengar's character. It feels good to use and is just plain satisfying to watch. There are a few things though that could use a second pass over, in my opinion. Activating the empowered q as Rengar is about to exit combat not only gets rid of the q proc, it puts the base ability on cd, which is weird. Also, like a couple of others have already mentioned, after using an ability sometimes Rengar will not basic attack a target until a movement command is issued. The ultimate changes are probably a little too much. The base damage is huge, and combined with a level 3 or 4 q, a gank at level 6 on a squishy target leaves them at about 1/3 hp with no real damage bought yet. I'm all for killing ADC players, but the base damage on the ult, at least at rank 1, is a bit high. I really like the new sense range though. It gives Rengar more time to get in close enough for the kill and dodge potential ward spots, which was a big problem before; ult too early and they tower hug, ult too late and they spot you on a ward and tower hug. Also, just a weird thing that happened in one of the games, after clearing Blue, gromp, and wolves and hitting level 3, I lost a skill point when i tried to skill E. At level 4 I was given 2 skill points to compensate, but it was a really weird 1 off bug. I'm not quite sure why it happened, but clicking the skill point assign button above the E registered, but did not award a point to the skill.
The skill points isn't related to Rengar. Its a bug on a lot of champions. Weird i though they would fix it with this patch
: Particles and sounds that are still missing: * Sound when reaching full ferocity [Example](https://youtu.be/S3d0Gocp_U8?t=82) ; * Glow on hands when at full ferocity Examples: [1](https://i.imgur.com/s7Oe6r4.png) , [2](https://i.imgur.com/GxjkmH9.png) ; Animations/particles: * Tiamat animation after Q doesn't repeat the Q animation. [Video for reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlWNvEi7nCY) . AA+Q+Tiamat feels akward because of that; * Jump with the Q active has a mismatched animation/particles.
Q does not have SFX when used in a leap. (The impact sound is missing upon landing)
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Kiljeaden

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