Rioter Comments
: Look dude, I tested it for myself. I built full ad shiv and was doing over 1k crits. I AA something then went up the dragon and used shiv q. I did more then 4k in one hit.
If you 're building full AD Shyv, you 're probably going to build IE and maybe another crit giving item. So you crit once with regular attack (does over 1K), use Q and crit again, which means if it crits, you do 1k for the AA, 1K for the Q's active, and 1K for the clone because the clone is using the Q's active. You do that in basically rapid succession, but you end up doing 1k then 3k, for 4k total. You do more damage if your W is on and the enemy is afflicted with your E, so with all those procs you probably ended up doing 4K with your Q's active, the AA, and the clone using the Q's active.
: > [{quoted}](name=KAMIGENO,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=THLAONgt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-04T18:38:43.187+0000) > > Hell, even if I 'm chasing someone and you 're Tahm, don't W me unless you want a report, 'cause it pisses me off to the extreme. I apologize for using the movespeed boost to make you faster to catch up and kill the enemy that would have otherwise outran you.
If I 'm chasing someone, that means I know I can get to them, so give me the ability to use my kit or items to do so. Do n't even come up with the "I 'm helping you" excuse 'cause you 're probably gonna harm more than good you do. Also, if we somehow run into a bunch of people unexpectedly due to lack of wards (seriously, what is it with Tahm supports that do not ward), you just wasted the one thing that could get us away. Granted, I personally would not want it anyway, 'cause I 'd rather die and have full control of my champ than to have no control of my champ whatsoever, but other people may want to have you swallow them so you can both run away.
: The clone will also use shiv q. So I was right with 4.
It only procs on-hit effects. It is, for the sake of mechanics, listed as another auto-attack that deals 0 damage, but does not count towards itself for auto-attacks concerning SD. If the item is off passive, AA, hit Q, and then you AA again, get the 60/70/80/90/100% AD damage, and then get the 6/7/8/9/100% AD again. All of those hits proc the on-hit effects, but the passive itself does not proc any additional on-hit effects, or else it would end up making Shyv's Q be an infinite cycle in which the Q itself and the passive would continually trigger each other. Sated D. Passive only triggers on basic attacks. So no, you were wrong, but you can do one hit, which hits for 100% AD (damage reduced by armor), then another hit (100%) + 120/140/160/180/200% AD (if the passive triggers alongside Q) (damage reduced by armor). You basically get three hits every time the passive triggers with your Q, but it only counts as one auto-attack. Also, on-hit effects apply for all of those. That is four on-hit totals with two AAs. If the passive triggers without the Q, then you do 100% AD (reduced by armor) damage with your on-hit effects hitting twice, and that is it. If you Q after this, you will only do 100 + 6/7/8/9/100% AD and on-hit effects hit twice. That is four on-hits in total with two AAs.
: full ad shiv is fun with this upgrade. You AA then q. The clone takes on any AA enhancement so for shiv you just took 4 AA's in one hit. Also stacking with susan is fun with it.
Well, more like 1 AA and then Q and you end up having three basic attacks.
: When I play Urgot (lol) this possibility of knowing the range of ability is important for me. it is even more helpful when you start to play unknown champ
The point of skillshot vs. smartcast is that one is more precise while the other is faster. If you practice enough in skill shot mode, you will end up being able to go "Oh, this is how far this ability goes" or "Oh, this is the area in which I can cast this", and you end up getting used to it. And since a lot of skill shots are similar, you, after a while, end up getting so used to it that you can play most, if not all, champ in smartcast. The two things that are kinda iffy smartcast is Xerath's ult when you use it (it takes getting used to using it in smartcast, but you can easily learn how to) and it something is an auto-target skill, you may hit something close to the target but not actually the target, like an Annie Q hitting a minion instead of hitting, say, Ekko, who is in his own minion wave.
: Can we keep Shyvana's W damage the same but remove 20% extra to minions and monsnters?
Or do not use her top and use people that are more viable. Honestly, I 'd prefer her being better at one role to a good amount then her being slightly better at one role she is meh at at the cost of reducing a good amount of her power in another role she is good at.
: > [{quoted}](name=Critkeeper,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Erwpgqw7,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-02T21:01:39.307+0000) > > this is just a repeat of the hybrid itemization fiasco in another form. Those champions will be nerfed into a garbage state because of the presence of devourer, and they will be forced to build it in order to bring themselves back up to par with everyone else, or devourer will be nerfed into a garbage state so that nobody builds it. > > Its not good design to have an item that specifically targets a small select group of champions because if the item is powerful it mandates picking that item on those champions, which means power has to be stripped away from the champions in question. We already have enough of this through Ad and Ap itemization-- and champions are balanced according to that. We have a wide variety of different Ad and Ap items. So, whether or not all this is true, it all already exists on the live Devourer item. All Sated is doing is fixing a problem with live devourer, infinite scaling. Infinite scaling means that you have to make each stack really weak so the item isn't hella OP on powerfarmers. Infinite scaling means as a jungler there's always an incentive to back off of fights and objectives so you can just keep farming up devourer. Putting a cap on the stacks means there's finally a point when you can say, "Okay, time to focus on winning the game, now." Making the item transform when you hit the cap makes hitting that cap actually feel rewarding. It changes very little about how devourer acts as an item that synnergizes really well with on-hit builds.
The problem with that is that this new item works too well when capped off. I 'm all for it being capped off, and I agree with it now being a weapon in which you stop and actually join your team a bit more than going "hold on, I wanna get a stack" at 35 minutes in, but this rewards a little too much. Pull back the power a little bit.
: I'm fairly sure name-and-shame is against the board tou, or at least heavily looked down upon unless the offenses are pretty flagrant. Still, it's well known that the PBE is exceedingly toxic, simply due to the atmosphere of "It's just the PBE." As well, Riot already addressed that they want to give Tahm the freedom to do that, because it makes the game more interesting. And I agree.
Yeah, it 's totally interesting being W'd against your will. Someone wanna troll as Tahm? Build Mobis, CD, and mana regen. There ya go. Totally fun having no control over my champion due to an ally, especially against my will. Also fun when they W the enemy champion and save them, or W them and allow them to get the extra AA or spell they needed before they died to get at least on kill. I can get this part and why it is in the game--poor decisions, which a lot of Tahms make--affect the team GREATLY (much like most any other champ). But do not make me the unwilling victim of an ally's spell. You should NEVER be a victim to an allies spell. I mean, you can be a victim to a Bard R or Kali R, but you can be even moreso of a victim to Tahm, even when he is trying to help or "trying to help".
: If they are nerfing her W because they assume she is gonna be building these items and be too OP, then that is also really dumb, they should be balancing their items interactions with each other, not nerfing all the champions who can use the items thus forcing them to follow the build set out by Riot. I play Shyvana top mostly, and I don't even build BotRK
You 're talking about Riot here. If they were good at balancing, then A LOT of things would be different, and PBE probably would be a more private thing. Remember when Warwick with the new Smite came out (remember him bursting you with Smite and R)? Look at the current PBE Sated D.. You are not force by any means to buy BotRK still, however, it is quite beneficial to her, since it adds damage to her Q, which is also boosted by people affected by her E and by her W when it is on. It also lowers the CD by .5 seconds every time you hit, so more attack speed means you can attack more means you can Q more means you can do more damage (an AA plus another AA at 60/70/80/90/100% AD) and add another on hit (another BotRK passive) which adds more damage. Sometimes an item is good, but you have to change those who can easily abuse it, and/or change the item. Her W nerf is not really a huge one, and it only very slightly affects her clear time (an extra second or so near the start, less than half a second later on, almost not even a second even later), which is already pretty high (in conjunction with her movement speed buff when W is active). And besides, they are not gonna change an item because of just one champ that uses it well. They are gonna try to fix the champ itself. Honestly, if they wanna nerf Shyv, maybe start making her Q's second on-hit effects scale, so she has a little less early game power. Make it scale like 60/70/80/90/100% on-hit effects. If this hurts her a little too much, try 72/78/84/92/100% or bringing back her W's damage and maybe slightly upping her E.
: @Riot, Any updates on a Guinsoo's Rageblade rework?
How about, like, build it out of Cutlass and Sheen and Long Sword and Tome (possibly make a new item that is LS and Tome) and make the total cost 3500. It's AP can be 80 and AD 50. It's active is Cutlass's slow. It's Spellblade is a unique one, called Enraged Blade. After a certain condition is met (not sure what the condition should be set too--possibly when a damage threshhold is met or a charge based system), a chunk of the damage you took in the last 3/5/8 (how long is up to debate) plus 100 percent base AD on your next AA or Spell. The damage is AoE, dealing (25% AP + 40% AD) magic damage that scales from 70 to 30 percent (the close you are to initial target, the more damage you take). It 's second passive, Fight for Life, if you wanna keep the sustain, is a unique lifesteal that ranges from 8 to 15 percent LS, giving more LS with lower health (15 percent when at 20 percent of max health). If you wanna keep the spell vamp, which may be overloading this weapon as is, then have it be 3 to 10 percent (hitting 10 at 15 percent of max health). An alternative to that passive, or a third, if you really want one, is called Panic Attack. When you reach a certain point in health, you gain CD and AS that is kept active until out of combat (10 seconds) but up to a max of 30 seconds. If this is the secondary passive, with the sustain one, then you get 5 percent CD and 10 percent AS when you hit 20 or 25 percent of max health. If this item does not have the sustain passive and instead this passive, then the CD is 10 percent and the AS is 20 and the max health would have to drop to 35 before it activates, and this passive lasts twice as long (meaning a max of 60 seconds, but only, again, if you are in combat still). Just throwing out some stuff. Kinda throwing a base of what the new Rageblade could be turned into, and going from there.
Rioter Comments
: Dumb Shyvana Nerfs
I do not think you understand the benefit the current Devourer's passive. Reanalyze how all her damages stack without her building much in the way of offense asides from BotRK and getting Sated.
: I suggest they keep it as is, but lose 1/4-1/2 (I'm leaning towards less) of regular Devourer's stacks on death. If you finish Sated Devourer, you've got it for good, but if you die before getting it, it'll set you back even further. Risk vs reward.
> [{quoted}](name=Boagster,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=6MAbueNR,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-07-04T23:57:19.121+0000) > > I suggest they keep it as is, but lose 1/4-1/2 (I'm leaning towards less) of regular Devourer's stacks on death. If you finish Sated Devourer, you've got it for good, but if you die before getting it, it'll set you back even further. Risk vs reward. Then that encourages staying in your own jungle and playing it safe and quickly farming and punishes possible ganking. A jungle item should definitely not punishing you for ganking.
: [New UI - Idea] CD timers for Elise, Jayce, Nidalee.
Perhaps like a small little picture of the icon and then the CD in seconds for each skill, so Nid's Human Form would show her Spear, and then above it, where like the level skill up icon appears, her Cougar Q. It can switch back and forth whenever Nid switches forms. Only problem would be is that Level Up icons can block it, and it may lead to some buggy visuals.
: Sated Devour, need to go.
SD needs way more balancing, because it rewards so much for so little, and the reward is so strong.
: So, Tahm Kench's Devour
Low key, even if you 're helping me, it pisses me off so much, because I do not have control of my champion, therefore, I am not in full control of the situation. If I 'm about to die, you might as well, unless I 'm Kat ulting and I 'm trying to desperately get off damage so my team can finish them off. Plus, again, mis-W'd Devourer's is sooooooo annoying. Lost an entire game 'cause a Tahm did that to me two times in two different team fights and got us both killed. Hell, even if I 'm chasing someone and you 're Tahm, don't W me unless you want a report, 'cause it pisses me off to the extreme. You may only W me if I 'm about to die and it looks like I 'm not going to be able to do much, or if you 're trying to R me; that 's it. Don't even touch me for chasing.
: To be honest, Tahm is the most balanced champ they've put on the PBE since Vel'koz. He did have a few strong points (Ex. His base Q Slow which was at 50%-- was actually nerfed down early game today.), but he's overall very balanced and not oppressive. > His E gives him a touch of sustain, or more importantly, a HUGE shield that basically garners him another 90 percent health later on in the game. He basically gains shield from being damaged, so swinging off on him still makes him last a good while in a 1v1 scenario. His shield being so strong is to give him a chance to grab an ally and weather enough to get them out if needed (Ex. If your adc gets ganked from Mid... say, Akali or Diana, and you eat them and need to survive back to the turret to get them out-- that's what that shield is for.) Using the shield completely removes any sustain you have and honestly, is not that strong unless you take a LOT of damage at once. Using the shield at 10% health as you say, will give him a massive shield, but he'll need to recall immediately after because he has no way to get that health back outside of potions. > His W constantly DENIES kills and can get them away to safety That is literally the entire purpose of his Ally W. > His W also lets him devourer enemies for a few seconds, dealing 20/23/26/29/32% (+.02 AP)% of their MAX HEALTH as magic damage. This is to allow him a fair poke in lane (his Q is actually rather short range), and to make him actually able to jungle, because he literally cannot without the percent damage to monsters. His W doesn't do that much damage until mid-late game anyways, and it's base damage is not that good without the %. > this lets him 1v1 a lot of people or just let him hold off an enemy for 2/2.25/2.5/2.75/3 seconds. Not to mention, this let 's someone CONTROL someone else's champ in terms of movement and placement and position whilst essentially silencing them and not really giving them a chance to Flash. This is LITERALLY the entire purpose of his W. You just read back his skill description. In addition, you can barely move 2 units on screen with someone inside you before you're forced to spit them out. > His R lets him deal bonus damage, bonus damage that scales with his health, which he should be building a lot of anyways. It also grants mobility to himself (and a possible ally) in the sense that they can now get across the map to hunt someone down or go push/defend a lane. At this point, you literally are just trying to read off his ability description. Why? As for the passive, it's to make it so that he isn't a completely useless damage dealer lategame considering he's almost required to build tanky. Considering he has no AoE CC, he would be a pretty useless tank if he didn't do a bit more damage. As for the active, it's the entire thing that holds his kit together thematically. It is entirely useless in a fight as it is cancelled from any damage, and is essentially a Rek'sai Ult with Shen attached, but without the shield, _and it is not global_. In addition to that, it has a _really_ long cooldown at rank 1. > His mana costs hold him back on spamming this 24/7, especially with his mana pool, but even then, you have enough mana to last you an extended team fight. If you start out with full mana. Doing a few W's, and AA>Q>AA combo a few times will run your mana out pretty fast. And, of course, as with the no AoE CC thing, he can't do really anything without Mana unless he built a Ravenous Hydra and starts licking people to death. > All you need to build on him is HP and movement speed. CD, Armor/MR come secondary. Mana/Mana regen is teritary if you really feel the need to get it. This is exactly his recommended build. As is the same for most tanks, actually, just switch out the Armor/MR for them except Sejuani. > Scale back his numbers a bit and give him a bit less mana (or increased mana costs) and maybe bump up the CD of Q. The Q slow was nerfed by 20% early game, he already runs out quite fast early game (and no champion really has mana problems lategame), and his Q does rather pathetic damage throughout the game, hence the low CD.
His shield being so strong is to give what you listed as a specific purpose, however, this shield can be used for more than just the purpose stated. The fact of the matter that he has to recall after being bursted and left with 10 percent health is, well, what everyone has to do when bursted to 10 percent (usually), but he has to do so only if he uses his shield, and even then the shield lasts him for a bit of time to take in more damage for a bit of a while. His shield lets him regain a small amount of sustain, so if he can afford to stand back and around for a bit, letting his health naturally restore through the shield (if he did not use the shield) plus his HP regen. He would have to recall only after using the shield. I get that his W is to deny a kill, but it holds for a bit too long, IMO, plus it has the added effect of holding an enemy champion whom has 3 stacks of Tahm's passive, which deals A BUNCH OF DAMAGE. 1/5th of enemy health as magic damage at level one. Also, he is a Support Fighter--he should not really be jungling, and his kit does not seem too much of a jungler rather than a top or support. For you to say "you are literally reading off his abilities" is kinda like saying "Hey, you know how you 're talking about his abilities? You 're explaining his abilities." I 'm saying his R adds extra damage as a passive, which is fine, but you are saying this adds damage to someone who, late game, 32% (+.02 AP)% of their maximum health as magic damage every 10 seconds (not including any CD) to an enemy champ and disables them and moves them slightly for a few seconds. The teleporting and carrying an ally idea is pretty cool. It is pretty good, and it should be kept, but I am listing it off as part of his kit, since, well, I am talking about his kit. And yes, I did mention his mana issues. Thanks for pointing out that I pointed out his mana issues. I explained them already, and how they keep the spam down, but thank you for re-iterating what I already said. Actually, with current meta, you just need to build AS and HP and a bit of armor/MR as an AD tank. CDR in place of AS for Nasus and Wu. Trinity Force of champs with low CDs and are tanks (if you wanna do more damage). Only good AP tanks out now are Amu and Vlad. Amu build stuff like Abyssal, Righteous, Locket, Visage, Randuin's, Cinderhulk/Sunfire (you should only be jungling Amu, so Cinderhulk), Frozen, and some AP alongside it, which is not too hard to manage with a lot of AP items giving some form of tankiness. Vlad you basically build him AP/HP with possible Armor/MR. Some champs have mana problems late game still, though very few. I 'm suggesting possible mana nerfs/mana costs, but that would more be targeted late game. His Q is more for the slow and the ability to W an enemy. Justifying its low CD is like saying "Janna's Q does not do damage, so it should be really low". It should be have a reasonable CD, like 7 or 8 seconds (or 7.5?; I would go with 7 for now). It is not that his Q is for damage, but it is for the 70 percent slow that lasts for 2 seconds. It has such a long range, though, understandably, you can only shoot it in a straight line. You can generally catch up to anyone at most any given time with this skill late game, and since it adds a stack of his passive, it can be used in W'ing enemies. You are looking at skills one by one and not putting them all together. A lot of his skills alone are fairly reasonable on their own (though, his E could use work and his Q can either have a slightly higher CD or slightly lower slow or slow for less (or slow for 75% for 1.25 at max rank)) asides from his main mechanic, his W; the only reason his W is not reasonable is that it does TOO MUCH DAMAGE. (Scale it back a bit, and have some counterplay around it. I should not be screwed Flashing out of his W. And I know he has to save it for going offensive on an enemy or saving/helping an ally, but the damage it deals is too great.) All together, his skills make for a fairly strong support champ--a bit too strong since he can play keep-the-ally-away or om-nom-nom-squishies with his W and Q (which is not bad, 'cept his W, again, deals too much damage) while having a lot of extra HP (in the form of a shield) that benefit greatly from armor/MR. Just scale back his numbers a bit here and there and he would be a bit more balanced.
> [{quoted}](name=Lunar Revel,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=A9W9yvgh,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-07-04T07:06:07.823+0000) > > Because I am a jerk, if you have a problem with that, you can just go and die. #trashagain. This toxic user... Makes me feel like I am in a LoL match right now.
: Oooh. That's better. Each game could give one ability to kick a person to each player, but when one person in a group uses it, it takes the other's of the players that weren't kicked. Just so if one of the other players decide to host, they can't use their kick too.
But people can decide to just randomly kick someone for calling the role they wanted first. It just is who kicks whom first, at that point. I can call JG first, but if someone else wants it, they can kick me, and then they go back to lobby.
: [5.14] Zeke's Herald update coming to PBE
The problem I see with this item is that not many people are gonna use it unless in a duo queue. It does give a lot of hurt. It sounds fairly good on paper, but this seems really niche, and it sounds like it can benefit people too much, like Kalista or bursty APs (Annie, Lux, etc, etc). It is rewarding co-operation a little too much. Plus making this item is now a "be with your ADC 24/7" item as opposed to helping the entire team. It lets people like Cait and Jinx always crit, dealing a bunch of damage, for 6 seconds. It doubles up their damage, making them get pretty much 100 percent crit chance, for a fairly low price-tag. Hell, have Tryn be the conduit and laugh. Yi, too. Maybe even Riven, since it gives her a flat 1/2 chance to crit alongside her passive. It also removes diversity in the sense that you are not benefiting an AD heavy-comp. This is an item that a lot of supports can build and just use on ADC without too much care, so you, the support, resort to baby the ADC even further. This also gives yet another AP item to supports. I can def grab this on Sona and then have my Q e stronger, the Aura benefit the ADC, and the Active from this item give a near 1-hit KO. God forbid that ADC be a Draven with a Q or Cait with her passive up. This would be an item I would build on full AP Sona (with Sightstone, boots, and possibly the AP starter support item) and laugh at how I am abusing the item, taking less damage while being able to deal a bunch more, all for the low-low price.
: Hey RiotJag, Can you please keep the previous version of Zeke's Herald or latch it onto another item ? I really loved using it on my kill lane supports and full AD teams. [ {{champion:421}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:5}} support, if you're curious. ] The Live version of the item is expensive thus difficult to obtain for a support, making it a balanced and an aware, niche purchase. Thank you for your time, please consider creating a new item to fit in both the current and new Zeke's Herald!
> [{quoted}](name=draqxqard,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=lEXEsgWL,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-06-29T20:11:45.412+0000) > > Hey RiotJag, > > Can you please keep the previous version of Zeke's Herald or latch it onto another item ? I really loved using it on my kill lane supports and full AD teams. [ {{champion:421}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:5}} support, if you're curious. ] > > The Live version of the item is expensive thus difficult to obtain for a support, making it a balanced and an aware, niche purchase. > > Thank you for your time, please consider creating a new item to fit in both the current and new Zeke's Herald! Yeah, for this reason, the "new" Zeke's should be an entirely new item.
: Enemy summoner spells cooldown
That would be interesting, so you can plan accordingly, but not knowing whether they have their spell up is advantageous to them in the sense that you cannot completely plan what they are gonna do. Summoner Spells can make and break fights. I mean, if you see them use the spell, you can keep track of it in your head (but if you do not keep track of it, you lose it), but if the info is on screen for ya, then it makes it a bit too easy, IMO. I would not say it is unfair, but... It changes how people go about in a way. Not a bad idea, but maybe a bit too much.
Rioter Comments
: I didn't even think about that, nice catch. Although, couldn't a group of people already do that in the post-game lobby?
That already also is a problem, 'cause, for example I had one game in which I was Shyv jg and I called it first, and then this Rengar named Pizza Rolls insta-locked Rengar with Smite/Flash. I still tried to jungle, but another person called Pizza Rolls was a Zed mid, and he helped Rengar steal camps from me, and he ended up putting me behind stealing camps, to the point in which he flashed. Yet I doubt my team reported them, but I got a report from each of them, probably, and Azir, who went solo bot, because he kept QQing about me not ganking for him when I am behind. I asked for a report on them and when some of the enemy team asked "why?" and two people on the enemy team said I was QQing and salting and whatnot, so I may or may not have even gotten a report from them. I 'd also like to note that the Zed and Rengar were complete ass, Rengar and Zed feeding pretty hard, but me basically being Nasus's support won us the game. Honestly, if you 're teamed up with a duo or trio and you have beef with one of those people, that is three reports, even if the other person started it or you did not do ANYTHING. Did not gank enough bot lane despite them feeding it up and you not wanting to add to the feed? Report. Bot lane blaming you for them feeding and not winning? Bet your bottom dollar you get reported as jungler if they are a duo. Did not give mid Zed your blue? Report. Split push, took to towers, but was not a part of one team fight mid your team fought engaged and fought 4v5 at enemy tower? Report. Express disdain or dislike? Report. Ask someone to stop being toxic? Report. Now add one or two (rarely three, but possible) more reports on top of that, because of the reporter being duo, trio, or quad-queue, and there ya go. There should possibly be a system in which only ONE REPORT is counted for TWO SUMMONERS in the party reported the person and for the same thing. This would mean one possible report for a duo and trio, and two reports for a quad.
: Reporting in the lobby screen
That would be cool, but I worry for some people that party up and attack an innocent person. It would be cool if three people could all vote to kick someone for trolling and saving a whole lot of trouble, but I can see how this can be abused like hell.
: [5.13] Core AP Items Pass
With this rationale, I 'm thinking maybe the basic AP items (Tome, Blast, NLR) could build up from a tree off of one another? Like, You need one Tome to buy Blast, you need a Blast and Tome to build NLR, etc, etc. Something I would like to see, alongside AD items following the same trend, such as two LSs building into Pick and Pick and two LSs building into BF. But I do think that this can cause a balancing issue with the fact that you can still buy cheap items and have them build up to more expensive ones while you 're behind. This can allow for a more easy comeback, but at the same time, it could make losing lane less punishing and throw off the overall flow of the game. Plus it can also heavily reward those slightly ahead. Just spit-balling something I feel that is along the lines of this AP change/rebalance.
: Possible Sated Rebalance/Nerf
Also, I wanna note that it helps bring hybrid damage to the table, which makes me concerned if Riot is gonna nerf champs to compensate it (meaning they now NEED it and they can only jungle). I do not want it to be nerfed to garbage, either. I feel like it is a good, strong item, but too strong in actual balance. This item focuses on a handful of champs, and I do not want them to be the strongest champs in the game because of this. I do not want them to be nerfed because of this item, which I feel like can happen because it has before in the past. I do not want this item to be a niche item for a select few that can abuse it very well and succeed by abusing the crap out of it.
: Devourer needs potential nerfs
Yeah, it deals waaaaay too much damage. Scaling it back a bit or shifting the power would be a great thing to do.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: The PBE Community Need's Some Detox
PBE has been more toxic in around 6 or 7 games than regular LoL has been for 10 games, so I 'd say a ratio of 6.5:10. You have troll builders. Troll supports. People that instalock Tahm and eat our team's 12/3/8 Shyv just to mess around, costing 3 deaths. People that AFK. (BTW, there is a lot of reports of lag in PBE, with 200+ pings. I 've personally had a few moments in which would not start and I had to reconnect, losing 2 in-game minutes.) Supports that do not build sightstone. People on your team that take jungle without permission (generally tops). People that still lock in the role that is already called, then troll the other person who called it first (IE limiting the person who called JG to one side of the jungle). *This problem is seen more in PBE than in norms. And the list goes on. Now, most of what I said goes on in norms (take out the obvious things like Tahm in norms), but PBE has it even more, IMO.
: Sated Devourer Too Strong (On Champs That Can Abuse it Like Shyv)
Also, this does not include damage from Chilling or Challenging Smite. Challenging Smite allows Shyv to do a lot of single target true damage (with Q, Sated Devourer, and a lot of attack speed) whilst taking less damage from a single target. Chilling Smite slows down an enemy champion and lets you steal that MS for 2 seconds, which can bridge the gap between Shyv and her foes, whilst doing a tad bit of damage. (Or she can use it to run away, keep an enemy from getting close to an ally, etc,. etc.) I 'm not saying those Smites are OP, but I am saying it gives Shyv even more tankiness and offense (offense that benefits from Q and SD and attack speed) with Challenging Smite or utility with Chilling Smite. I would not argue that Challenging Smite is not the new pre-nerfed Warwick Challenging Smite Infinite Duress, but it is pretty strong, letting me just kill enemies a few seconds faster.
: Exactly! It's not as bad as OP is making it out to be, but with enough attack speed (ie. Devourer + BotRK), Shyvana can be hitting with her Q after every two attacks. And with the health-shredding effects on her Flame Breath AND Blade of the Ruined King, it'd look a little like this: Attack (8% current health as physical, 2.5% max health as magic), Devourer Double Attack (16% health as physical, 5% as magic), Twin Bite (another 16%/5%). The 'current health' shredding on BotRK makes calculation a little more complicated, but we can estimate it out to be 12.5% health damage dealt as magic damage, and something like 20-30% health shredded as physical damage. Factor in resists and whatnot, and it's about 20-30% total of any target's health shredded just from the health-shredding effects on those three attacks, which happens over the course of about 1.5 seconds, and for every 1.5 seconds the skirmish continues. Factor in the actual damage numbers on Shyvana's other abilities...yeah. Even tanks can get melted through in about 5 seconds by just Shyvana alone.
With all abilities and current items combined, you can take down, say, a mid-game Lux's health by half with full combo, an ADC to about 45 percent, a bruiser top drops to 65-70 percent if armor is built, a full tank drops to 70-75, etc, etc. That is her burst. She then proceeds to heal from said burst, re-burst almost full cycle and full previous damage in 3 seconds, and continues to do so until enemy is dead.
: Except you calculated that a bit wrong. Trin Force doesn't double your TOTAL AD, it doubles your BASE AD. So, you take that 119 number, double it (238), then add it to her bonus AD (now totalling 368). And remember, that only procs for the first of the two hits of Twin Bite.
> [{quoted}](name=Mallic,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=WaLyhldg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-06-28T17:59:18.378+0000) > > Except you calculated that a bit wrong. Trin Force doesn't double your TOTAL AD, it doubles your BASE AD. So, you take that 119 number, double it (238), then add it to her bonus AD (now totalling 368). And remember, that only procs for the first of the two hits of Twin Bite. Fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.
: Sated devourer doesnt activate a second Q since itd be on cooldown, doesnt work like that, will grant a extra normal attack though. It works only as Basic attacks, not empowered basic attacks thx to skills. Tho i can agree that she will do a lot of dmg hahaha :p Also she can reduce the cooldown of her Q like mad thx to its passive, as well as stay in dragon form pretty dang long all cuz this item
> [{quoted}](name=xTheFallenOnesx,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=WaLyhldg,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-06-28T19:30:17.899+0000) > > Sated devourer doesnt activate a second Q since itd be on cooldown, doesnt work like that, will grant a extra normal attack though. It works only as Basic attacks, not empowered basic attacks thx to skills. Tho i can agree that she will do a lot of dmg hahaha :p > > Also she can reduce the cooldown of her Q like mad thx to its passive, as well as stay in dragon form pretty dang long all cuz this item You do not get a second Q--you get another "bite", meaning you get another 80/85/90/95/100% AD added to the damage done (after reducing armor, ofc), plus all on hit-effects (minus TriForce).
: Sated Devourer Too Strong (On Champs That Can Abuse it Like Shyv)
tl;dr version: Shyv deals a bunch of mixed burst damage with SD and she heals ~1/5 of the physical damage done from it. She also deals a fairly decent chunk of mixed (mostly physical if Q hits) AoE damage while also healing from the phys. damage from that. She can lock onto squishies and stick to them and easily kill them while usually not having much of a scratch on her afterwards
Rioter Comments
: Suggestions for the new HUD
The pings should be back on the mini-map HUD. Pings feel less accessible and makes communication much harder. IMO, it is much easier to just click Alert or Retreat once and then move your mouse to the map and then slide for the ping you want.
Rioter Comments
: New HUD Feedback
The pings should be back on the mini-map HUD. Pings feel less accessible and makes communication much harder. IMO, it is much easier to just click Alert or Retreat once and then move your mouse to the map and then slide for the ping.


Level 30 (PBE)
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