: @Riot needs to address the summoner spell cdr issue
well im not a rioter, but... don't you think adding that much summoner CDR may make spellbook a "must use" keystone? also can't really agree about alistar not being relevant without flash, even without his flash engage he can still just peel for his adc and generally turn the enemy team's assassin's life into a nightmare. same for cosmic insight imho, i think 15-20% may be a bit much
: PBE crashes at 90% on Loading Screen
i had something similar before, in my case just opening the client again and reconnecting worked. after 4-5 times the problem disappeared as if it never happened :/ (it also happened to me several times after alt+tab-ing during loading screen)
: Yeah, maybe I'm just crazy, it's a very subtle thing, so it's hard to provide any proof of it.
i tried it with soraka, did you see it on a spesific champion?
: Is it just me or... (Target boxes)
i don't remember anything about the cursor target boxes being changed, and i didn't notice anything while playing yesterday :/ unless it's a new change from today in which case i'll check it out later. im not playing on Howling abyss so maybe that's why{{sticker:sg-kiko}}
: Rating new Varus W
a really cool and awesome change for varus imho. can't wait for it to be on live (and im not an adc even xD )
: have I asked your opinion ? it feels like you have posted your cv. what is this hatred dude. calm down your ass
hatred? I simply stated why Ahri doesn't require a buff to her new passive, but just like last time you resort to insulting me instead of trying to counter anything i point out :/ and no, you haven't asked my opinion but this is not your private board, if i see someone makes a comment / posts something, i have every right to comment about and point out why they are wrong in my opinion ^^ now let's try again, i stated why ahri doesn't need buffs to her passive, try to prove me wrong :)
: Cool. I'm the tester for Ahri currently, so glad to hear you're enjoying the changes. Current thoughts are that she's reasonably powerful, but have agreed with feedback that her passive isn't really hitting satisfaction where we'd like it currently.
those changes are really cool but doesn't her new passive just makes her safe again?
: I seriously love this champ and I paid a lot of effort and even bought skin. if it changes the way I dont like, I will even want back my riotpoins that I used on her skins. I will say that '' why do I pay things and have fun with it but it is changed another way that I wont play the most? why would I buy expensive skins for champs that I main and they are changed into something else.''
that again? you can't have it back, you **can** refund (3 times) but not get the actual money back, **doesn't matter what you will say** buying stuff with RP = supporting riot, that's the reason there's RP and stuff you can buy with it. let me try to explain it another way: let's say you're a vegan and you donated money to a vegan kids charity organisation that gives food to poor children. few monthes later the organisation decides they're not going to give aid to only vegan kids, so you want your money back. you can't have it, it's gone already **and to the point** you forget items like boots, spellbinder, lichbane there are lots of items that give you ms, the passive doesn't give **flat** ms, it gives 20%, so the more movement speed you have from items, the more ms you will get from her passive especially late game when you should have 6 items. and what you said about ahri's R only being used for escape without movement speed, is just so wrong i don't know where to start.. untill her changes in s5 ahri had no ms in her kit, do you think no one ever used her R to all-in? do you think everyone saved it to escape? I can guarantee we didn't, the reason the old ahri was and always will be superior to any other ahri riot makes is: 1.she required skill to play. 2.she required hard work to learn. if you look at your minimap and know where the enemy jungler is, and when is it safe to all-in you don't get ganked and die "because i didn't have ult up" and i have no problem with ms on ahri, or with damage on ahri or anything really, i will play ahri no matter what riot do with her. but you should understand you can't have **everything**, ahri can't have the most mobility, tons of damage and sustain. and no, you're not an ahri main... because if you stop playing ahri if she's not 100% the way you want her to be, then you're not an ahri main, you're an **ahri abuser**{{sticker:sg-ahri-1}}
: I personally like the changes, but they may need to back off on the numbers. Charm in particular feels like it has too long of a window to throw in abilities/autos. I would like to see the q passive moved onto the w, and reduced in numbers to account for the lower cd. That way it's a little less powerful in lane, but it will keep her healthy later. Interested to see where they go with it though. It's certainly got a lot more synergy than the first round they put up there, along with feeling more well thought out (also not completely busted and ignorant of her playstyle xD). This is probably the best way to help her overall, and still leave her to have more than one playstyle.
thanks for the feedback :P i think you're a bit wrong there, S4 ahri's kit had plenty synergy (which happens to pretty much be the "first round" they put). and this is a tad too safe, again people forget one of the **main** reasons Ahri is being reworked in the first place. It's because she's too safe, that's why she lost her Qms, giving her prectically infinite mana and health in laning is safe, probably even safer then her Qms on live. moving it to W will simply cripple her mid-late game, a better option would be to make the healing scaling by level so it's weaker early and the same late. or just reduce the numbers, i think the dfg window is really fine, and just wanted to correct you a bit again: charm **does NOT increase her auto damage** and it seems you contradict yourself a tiny bit, saying this is "not ignorant of her playstyle" and lets her "have more than one playstyle". i appreciate your opinion but please don't make it sound like it's the universal truth or something :P im also a bit against touching Ahri's passive, as it's one of the most useful passives in the game and i don't really want to see it as part of her other abilities (why can't Q be just a regular dps skill?) but that just my humble opinion on the matter{{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
: Many Mages have the issue that in laning they never run out of mana while others are OOM after two waves. Its a Big issue because a mage without mana is a 100% safe dive target. The WHOLE thing about mages is that they are a threat if they have mana and are off CD but that is not the case with a bunch of Immobile mages. Riot really needs to address this
i almost never go OOM with live ahri either, mana management is an important skill to have, this game on PBE i simply spammed Q non-stop and didn't OOM, it rewards players that can hit skillshots, but it does not reward **good** players since managing your mana / resources is an important aspect of the game.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=JustACigar,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=tF3FRJAk,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-03-21T15:32:31.237+0000) > > i think she would be completely viable if they tone down her ap ratios and give her more ad ratio on her Q (closer to live irelia's) The issue with her Q is that it adds on hit. So {{item:3100}} {{item:3115}} {{item:3124}} all proc on it like Yasuos Q And since all the other abilities do 70%+ AP they ALL do AP damage. I dont mind her being able to build ether or. I really wish there where more that could do this. Would love to see Fizz be able to be built AP or AD, Malz, Akali, Sion, Reksia They could put the AP on one ability that scales well and the AD on another so that play styles are different. Irelia just needs more reason to go AD. Not much more just some.
you probably missed half of my comment :P i said "tone down her ap ratios" **and** "give her more ad on Q" her "new" Q at max level has: *50 less base damage *50% less ad scaling *does **not** refund mana on reset (i know it's cheap, i'll explain it in a moment) level 1 Q costs 20 mana, (50 on live) live Q refunds 35 flat mana on reset so: 50-35=15 it means the Q costs 5 mana more which adds up very quickly, by itself it's not much of a problem but: on live, you max Q last so it stays "low cost", and get most of the damage from it's 120% scaling, and max it last so in mid-late game you have less mana problems. this pbe version on the other hand gives you a "more spammable version of Q" that's much weaker, indirectly costs more mana, and the damage increases only by 10 per level and the CD is shorter at early levels but higher at levels 4-5. and {{item:3100}} {{item:3115}} {{item:3124}} is not a big problem since rageblade doesn't proc sheen effects twice. and the ad {{item:3124}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3748}} or {{item:3074}} is a much more dangerous combination on her, **_BUT_** the reason so many people build her ap is simply because her ad ratios are terrible, and her ap ratios are too high, simply lowering her ap ratios as you said will make her too weak. and also note, that her 70% ad ratio on R was removed in this rework, and the ap ratio was increased by 20%. irelia on live is slightly under buffed imho, and this irelia requires alot more skill, so gutting her ap ratios without giving her some of those ad ratios back seems pointless. and to te guys comparing her to ap master yi: irelia's new E is not even **remotely** as easy to hit as yi's Q, and she doesn't heal even half of the hp master yi could heal, and she does not deal true damage anymore.. yes, she does more damage to shields but that's still a nerf over all. true damage ignores armor and MR, doing 300% damage to shields only means she will destroy the **shield** 3 times faster (if she stacked her passive) and won't help her against tanks / any champion that got a {{item:3110}} {{item:3075}}
: ah, i didn't know. still pretty dumb how she's permabanned in one for all ):
i got her with no problem on OFA, but the problem is that's just not good or healthy for testing imho..
: Tone down Irelia AP ratios
i think she would be completely viable if they tone down her ap ratios and give her more ad ratio on her Q (closer to live irelia's)
: Yes, 2 one for all queues in a row i get people banning irelia. They say they want to play OFA. PBE is not to play OFA, its to test. Fucking thing sucks, there needs to be a separate champion testing queue that's OFA only new champion
these kinda people are easy enough to deal with: just tried getting irelia in a game someone picked swain but irelia was the majority pick, someone else dodged. 2nd OFA queue i got the same guy on my team, banning irelia, so i just banned swain and he dodged :P easy
: forreal. I logged onto PBE excited to test the new Irelia. I queue up for one for all, she's banned on both teams. I dodge. I look to see what normal modes are available, and it's only draft pick, where surely the team without first pick is going to ban Irelia. WTF riot? What's the point in putting a champ on PBE to test them if NO ONE can test them?
you can't ban in PBE draft pick, it's not the same as live draft
: no, it doesnt matter what riot thinks. I think they care more of players thoughts than their decisions. thats why we are here discussing these. so that we ( the costomers) will have fun of it, if not, then I want my riot points back because of I bought sg ahri skin and other skins and also I took so much effort mastering her. I have some hard works on her. thats also my right too as a main
oh, but it does matter, league is free to play, so you're not a customer, and we are not here to discuss **this**, it's just a topic someone opened, we're here to report problems, not for every "average joe" to give his vision of the perfect rework for his champion (which 99% of the time is way too strong). no it's not your right, and you can't have any of your riot points back unless you use the refund option. i don't understand why people keep saying they want their RP back if they don't get X/Y/Z... you accepted the terms of service man... every penny you gave riot belongs to them and you will never see it again. and btw, i highly doubt you're actually an ahri main.... no disrespect but "riot will do what i want or i stop playing the champ and i want all the rp for my skins back" is what "fake mains" always say.. if you'd like to see a real main, look for those that kept playing ahri even when her passive was bugged and didn't heal you, or still play her now in master elo even if she's not "god tier" and **most importantly**, if you say "**they care more of players thoughts than their decisions**", then you probably missed the part where 60~70% of the ahri mains (aka. the **majoriy**) wants the Qms **gone**, and s4 ahri back. it has been this way since season 5 when they turned ahri into a kite mage.
: Make Irelia unbannable
while they're at it they should make OFA a permenant game mode in PBE so EVERY time a champ gets reworked you can test it in pbe.. on my 40th+ game trying to get irelia...
: yeah I agree with you. it truly sucs. I have tried her many times in pbe and realized that she is quite weak in early process and very broken in late which is unbalanced. I like live version of ahri it is quite balanced and as we see, she is not banned or played a lot in ranked games either. whic surely means she is good at where she is in live version. She feels a bit weak in early thats something we can overcome :) I hope rito may never change ahri at all {{sticker:sg-ahri-3}}
if you feed your ass off early and get behind you will not be broken in late, and sinse this iteration is an "assassin" it makes sense for her to have a weak early game. as much as i love live ahri with her Qms, the fact all of her iteration had the movement speed remobed shows riot are not intending to keep it, everyone will most likely have to just get used to it{{sticker:sg-kiko}}
: Ahri "E" - Stop dash again
as far as i remember, stoping dashes was an unintended bug that riot decided to leave the way it was, and later changed their minds and fixed it, doubt we ever going to get that back
: I'm totally fine with being a lot less ult reliant, and being less mobile since no Q MS is kinda fine with me too, though I like having enough MS to kite certain matchups. As for landing both parts of her Q, my issue is the amount of mobility creep. There's a much larger number of enemies that have the ability to avoid it without taking a big penalty then there used to be. As for an example of why she feels weaker without her ult, the amount of damage being thrown around in midlane is much higher than it used to be during old Ahri's days, post Deathfire Grasp, since you can't run Armor/MR runes against your opponents without making some very heavy tradeoffs. Damage has gone up, the amount of early resistances have gone down, and accessibility to resistance penetration is much easier. And because charm cannot interrupt dashes like it used to be able to, some opponents old Ahri used to beat, have the advantage over Ahri. For example, old Leblanc, who you can now no longer stop from dashing. And there's also a lot of options in the runes that heavily favor Ahri's opponents, while Ahri can't benefit as much from them. The changes to Presence of Mind and Manaflow band, together with the wave clear changes, loss of her Q safety, makes laning phase much more difficult since you not only lose the safety net of movement speed, but also part of your ability to harass/punish enemies since you've got high mana costs. These are really just suggestions for testing to see if there's a satisfying middle ground between old and live Ahri for the players, which is what I hope there will be. I'm no expert on game balance nor am I going to claim to be. But the amount of MS that I mentioned above is actually pretty low in the early game, and still low in comparison to live Q when the speed boost has decayed. And not even a third of the mobility that was available to Ahri before the mage item update. The % ms boost per level scaling that I suggested for testing, would be at lvl 18, with 400 ms unamplified by Q, a total of 48 ms for the duration of your Q. Live Q gives 60 ms at lvl 1 after the speed burst has decayed. With Ahri's base MS being 330, and an increasing 1% amp per two levels from 5% at lvls 1-2, this would be one of the weakest on-ability use speed boosts in the game, if not the weakest speed boost on a champion's ability. And there's plenty of higher damage abilities with speed boosts. At lvls 1-2, without boots, you'd be at 346.5 , then 349.8 at lvl 3-4, and 353 ms at lvl 5-6, and 356 at lvl 7-8. For total specificness, counting the fraction, you have 1.4 ms more than basic boots of speed for the duration of your Q flight at level 7-8. With boots of speed, lvls 1-2 would be 372, lvls 3-4 would be 376, lvls 5-6 would be 379, lvls 7-8 383 ms, lvls 9-10 386 ms, lvls 11-12 390 ms for the duration of your Q. With boots of lucidity or Sorc shoes, let's say you managed to rush them at lvl 6 for for some reason, that's 401 ms, 405 ms at lvl 7-8, 408 at lvl 9-10, 412 at lvls 11-12 for your Q duration. The MS boost does scale up pretty strongly once you have items, which is definitely powerful. But in the early game, you're still vulnerable, your Q isn't a huge safety net, and you still have to be frugal with your mana because you have high costs, and are still very squishy. Combined with the other changes, it would be powerful but not overpowered, as far as I can tell. Out of all the changes, the targeting change to W (not targeting minions at awkward times, and a priority on champions that have been charmed), would be the best for change of the suggestions in my opinion. I'd be perfectly happy without any Q ms if I could get it to focus on a charmed target. As well as the removal of the autoattack canceling as the Q changes flight path.
sorry for the late reply, forgot to check the boards. :p it doesn't matter how much ms ahri gains from her Q, simply the **fact** she gets **any** ms was the whole reason for this "rework". again i don't see **how** ahri's enemies are favored by the new runes and/or the mana flow presence changes (since again you just decided it's that way without giving examples or explanation) your example of how ahri feels weaker without her R makes no sense either... so let me quote you and explain a few things: "With the **damage amp** and **partial cooldown refund** of today's version, you gain a lot of power while your ult is up, but **feel significantly weaker than _live_ Ahri** when it's down, at least in my experience." i used bold text to make sure we both understand that the 3rd version is the one you were talking about, and said it feels "**significantly** weaker than live ahri" without R, now that claim as i said makes no sense, and your explanation did not make sense of it either. i'll say it again, all of ahri's skills except Q do MORE damage (E does less by itself but gives the amp) so how exactly, does this version, feel any weaker than live, let alone "significantly" weaker? pbe ahri without ult is stronger then live ahri without ult, landing one good charm is the difference between getting a kill and wasting mana. as for charm stoping dashes: * it's exactly the same for both live and pbe ahri * it was never intentional for it to stop dashes, that's the reason they fixed it and i'll quote myself: "in around 80% of my games all 3 balls from W hit my target, not minions" if you're close enough to the champion you're attacking the W will not hit minions.. (in 1V1) and as i said, making W auto target charmed enemies will give ahri way too much single target burst in team fights where you can force your W on one single enemy, that means the damage amp on E will have to be removed but if that happens she will not have enough damage again. it seems alot of players on these boards want too much :( "give ahri Qms, auto target on E, make E stronger and higher dmg amp, and give her 5 dashes with CDR, oh and don't forget to change the passive to something that does more damage!"... lb is back and have insane burst, players: "give her more damage and reduce all CDs so i can burst someone every 20 seconds" i know my above examples of ahri and lb are VERY exaggerated, but true nonetheless. ahri can't have **everything**, and if ahri players back in season 4 and earlier could kite, and had no problems hitting both Q parts, then s4 ahri is not the problem.. also if you "can't kite" certain champions, build rylai's and spellbinder/lichbane (you can't itemize for burst and expect to be a kiting mage, just as you can't expect to build raylai's, liandry's, boots of swiftness and have burst) old ahri could kite just fine but you had to itemize her differently for that purpose.
: My thoughts on current Ahri changes/revert.
i can agree with most of what you said, but as for ahri being slow, im pretty sure boots+spellbinder will fix that :p celerity help too. and the R does less damage early, and more damage late {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
: Graphics bug - Zhonya removes boyparts
ahri is superior to the other 3 you mentioned ofc it didn't effect her :P but in all honesty, those bugs are hilarious xD
: Yeah, this change is busted as hell. It's not a matter of addressing a perceived issue with her; this is just ridiculously overtuned.
not really, she is still squishy, and CDR on ult won't save you from someone that can burst you down. it feels broken but against players that know how to counter it, you can be countered very easily. kite ahri will require items like rylai's (maybe even the old roa+tear build) which give less damage but more hp and kiting potential while assassin ahri will take items that help bursting others but be very squishy and easy to focus down and kill.
: They can also revert the range on W so we can hit actually the enemy during laning phase
that's being greedy :P i actually agree with the range nerf W got
: I agree. But "true" veteran ahri mains (before season 5) think the opposite like she doesn't need q ms buff at all. I discussed a little about it on twitter account one of the development team who now rebalances ahri. Many of diamond, master players glad about changes. And the third iteration (in 9/3 pbe update) like they said is now "release candidate" so that changes will be in 8.6 update for sure with some a little changes. I really upset about it too because of her Q ms buff is became one of her core mechanics. With this changes, they just walk in the circle. {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
you really shouldn't be upset about that, spellbinder+boots will fix the lack of ms (permenantly, without needing to throw your Q) :p and you say you're upset about her Qms being removed (and it being core on her), which is understandable, but... doesn't it go the same way for "true" veteran ahri mains who had their assassin ahri taken from them? i played the old ahri, and i loved every moment of it. i play now post s5 ahri, and i still love every moment of it. i will probably still play ahri even if riot turns her into a meele adc, and still love every moment of it. =^~^= it takes time to adjust to "big" changes, but it's not as bad as you think and players that really find a champ fun will find a way to make it work for them with any change they get ^^
: Ahri Feedback
i'll start by saying im fine with any and all ahri versions that have ever existed and i like live ahri alot too. but, you have some mistakes i just want to point out, the 3rd ahri version does **not** feel weaker then live ahri at any point in the game.. Q - same damage, but can't "mindlessly" use it because "ms will save me" (pretty much one the things most ahri mains hated) W - more damage, more time to make sure you're in range of a champion, and the targeting of W works **fine** (80% of my games all 3 hit my target in their minion wave..) E - less damage by itself, much more damage indirectly (damage amp) (ofc, that means you have to be able to hit E first) R - has nothing to do with the point im trying to convey would you kindly explain how ahri feels **any** weaker without ult? if anything, this "rework" was an outstanding job of making her **alot** less ult relient, yes your R is useful, but you can't waste it mindlessly now. your Q can't be used mindlessly either. i played with this ahri (except CDR on R) at season 4 and had close to 0 problems hitting both parts of her Q. all you said is essentially: "ahri feels bad because X / Y / Z" with "X" "Y" and "Z" being what most ahri mains and riot wants... they want ahri to be **less safe**, they want ahri to be **harder**, they want ahri to require **more skill** and your suggestions will result in an even more broken ahri that is strong at all stages, essentially eliminating her weak early game and giving her even more power by turning her into a MS powerhouse with more single target burst{{sticker:sg-ahri-3}}
: Q ms buff became one of her core mechanics. While R is down she has Q ms for escape and without it, she will become very slow and vulnerable like a simple mage, not assassin. If I want to play high burst immobile mage I will pick Syndra or Lux. Look at other assassins, they have mobility skills which are not their ultimate skills. You just fixated on the past and begging Riot to revert all of the changes after season 5-6. It's really annoying. Okay, let's get back to league of legends which was in 2011.
actually, im one of the very *few* guys on reddit and youtube comment section arguing in favor of live ahri, since i believe she is fine with no rework too :p but as for the people that wanted s4 ahri back, i can completely understand them, she was a very high skillcap/floor champion, and was very mobile even without ult if played and built correctly. (and you could play her as a kite mage back then too, but it had a very different build) ahri's R, imho, has a very short CD even in pbe as getting a luden's+zhoniya's will put it at around 60~70 seconds, which isn't too bad. and a fun fact: using Q ms, in most cases, only made you think you were going faster (tested with a friend, had the same ms, i used Q and and only just caught up to him when the ms buff was over :P ) this is just my opinion, and regardless of what happens to ahri, i'll keep playing her even if she gets LeBlanc'ed :P{{sticker:sg-kiko}}
: I did play Ahri with dfg. I still guess Q is much nicer with movement speed. Also I guess that she should have ammo on R. It will work very simmilar to Vayne Q but less often. And again, if she was more Q centered, gameplay will be better. With new R and low cd Q she will become movementspeed monster which can more easly engage with R. Tho she will have only 2 R charges which are rechargable on enemy kill. So she need to think more about every move. It's so complicated. :D I am glad that you decided to explain why it's bad idea. Well, I can sound very confident, but your points were exactly my worries. xD Anyway I want to try it out.
you're welcome and i do believe your idea could be very interesting. but im afraid it may be slightly too easy to overbuff, at which point ahri may get olafed/azired/leblanced xD also if you haven't tried her new 3rd version, you really should
: feedback on Ahri
hopefully, riot never does this ^^ as a long time ahri main, trust me, she doesn't need the Q movement speed (players that didn't play her during the DFG era aren't used to her not having MS) -giving CD reduction to both R AND W will make ahri even more centered on her Qs, and probably just going to be way too OP. (she already has CDR on R) -E gives damage amp for 5 seconds which imho is more then enough, but i guess that's not really game breaking if you add an extra second :P -ahri will NEVER have ammo system on R, she did very, very early, and riot canceled it because it was abused..(everyone literally kept a charge to escape whenever they needed) and also an ammo system like akali's will bring ahri's skill floor and cap way way down.. i think the current 3rd version is really amazing however, while ahri is alot more vulnerable at all stages, she is much stronger. champs that used to counter ahri back in s4 are still countering her pretty well, but most are skill matchups, and winning lane feels incredibly rewarding now. as well as finally having actually lvl 2 pressure =^~^={{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}

JustACigar

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