: EXPERIMENTAL Sona changes. Feedback wanted
I would honestly remove the bolts coming out of her abilities and buff the auras to a whole new level to compensate for that. I think it deserves at least a try. Currently the auras feel lackluster and the actives are the same, having all that power concentrated on the auras would be better.
: [5.14] Zeke's Herald update coming to PBE
I don't think this is the right approach for the item. It definitely needs some changes, but those changes are really awkward, and doesn't adress the fact that it's still hard to see the impact it has. IMO, the active needs to be something you use in a teamfight so that you can increase the offensive power of your allies (maybe something like placing a flag that gives passive bonuses, sort of like Jarvan's flag). That way even though you can't totally see the impact it had, it has at least some gameplay to it.
: New HUD Feedback
Is there any way you could make the dragon/baron timers more accessible? like making them be where the rest of the information is? You wanted to hide it a bit but I feel like making people have the 'skill' of looking at the timers is not what league should be about.
: Hey everyone, Thanks for the feedback so far. Taking it all in and delivering things that come up often to the relevant contributors. **Bug Fix** Thought I'd first let you in on a major bug we're trying to clear up. Currently the after-image on his ult is not working as intended. Whether or not you can see it on the enemy team is kind of up to random chance at the moment, sometimes it's visible, sometimes it isn't, sometimes it looks correct, and sometimes it looks like an exact copy of Ekko! Intended functionality for enemy team vision of the clone is as follows: If you can see Ekko, you can see the clone. The clone disappears if you can't see Ekko. The clone looks like a team-colored version of the one Ekko sees, not a fully textured copy of him. We're working to get it there so bear with us. **W delay** Second, a note on the W's 3-second delay. Frankly, it's very much intended. It's a predictive skill that you should be thinking about using BEFORE you fight, not something you should be using to react to the Vi who just jumped on your face out of nowhere. This feeds in to the goal of giving Ekko numerous things to feel "smart" about. Is it skillful to split second spell-shield a Vi ult right as she hits you? Sure. It's SMART to predict that Vi's going to ult you in 3 seconds and detonate a giant shield and stun on her face right when she's about to get her punch on. It may feel unreliable at times but my hope is that these failures make the success case feel all that much sweeter. **Why AP?** So Ekko to me thematically does not feel all that out of place in the AP space as he's a kid who isn't really all the physically strong but instead is leveraging the hextech powers of his Zero-Drive to move through and influence the timeline as well as damage opponents. Mechanically AP scaling is important on Ekko because it helps us regulate his maximum damage potential (no crazy AD basic attacks to worry about) which in turn allows us to give him crazier stuff in terms of mobility and CC. The power of Ekko's slows, hastes, stuns, and movement is only okay because the amount of benefit he gets out of standing there wacking an opponent affected by them is capped by his spells and AP ratios. Also helps to regulate things like tower pushing and vamp, which tend to get pretty crazy on chars like Zed and Talon. They kill you, heal up off the wave, take your tower, and then gank bot. For as powerful as Leblanc is at least she doesn't wreck your towers or remove all the damage you did to her before she died (and yes Ekko's R does that but it's on a CD). Are AD assassins bad to make? No, not necessarily, they just gain access to a whole new set of powerful things that I felt should not be as strong on Ekko.. **Changelist** Putting in a few nerfs for Ekko that should be out sometime tomorrow. After watching a number of PBE games we feel that Ekko tends to get pretty trainy (runs you down and beats you to do death with basics) especially when ahead. Additionally, his tower taking is pretty crazy. To combat this we're reducing the bases and scaling on his basic attack and hitting the AP ratio on the W passive. Hopefully this should make it a bit harder for Ekko to snowball and make him a bit less oppressive when doing so. **Stats** Reduced base attack speed to .644 from .658 Reduced AS/lvl to 3% from 3.5% Reduced AD/lvl to 3 from 3.5 P Q **W** On-hit AP ratio reduced to 1% missing health per 45 AP from 1% per 35 R Thanks again for all the feedback, will keep reading it and responding when I can.
You are awesome. Thanks for replying to our feedback. Please make other champion designers do the same.
: but his ultimate goes back in time, not forward - so you cannot do that, you can use his E however for the short hop into blink into W stun
I mean Imagine you are running from them, you plant your W, they follow you and you use your R to go back to your W. It would be really hard to do but a 5 man stun with your R damage would be devastating.
: Ekko Feedback Thread
Omg I can already see crazy plays like using R into a 5 man W. This is gonna be good! A quick question though: Is the ult 'shadow' visible to enemies?
: > The Q change is something she really needed. It was really unintuitive with the variable travel time. It's exactly the change the ability needed. > > Her W change is also a nice change as it was way too short, but it will still be too powerful early and too weak late. You should look at that power curve on her heal more than it's range. I'd suggest something like increasing the base health cost and adding an AP ratio that reduces it's health cost and reducing it's cooldown to 1 second at max rank, as the cooldown shouldn't be what makes you unable to save your AD carry from an assassin. I think it's the opposite, by late game you should have 40% CDR and the heal cd is very close to 1 second. her heal is strong early game, but she as a champion is weak early game.
> the heal cd is very close to 1 second I know. That's why I think giving it even less cooldown would be great. I often find myself unable to heal my ADC from burst because I don't have enough HPS in the late game. reducing it's cooldown from 2 to 1 seconds effectively DOUBLES the potential HPS without making it too good (you will kill yourself if you're not careful). > but she as a champion is weak early game. On her own, I agree, but she makes whoever she is laning with a monster. Cait + Soraka is so strong if Cait plays aggressive. Playing passive with a soraka in your lane is the worst thing you could do, as her heal will be useless if you don't have an ally to heal and her poke is subpar.
: Experimental Soraka Changes
The Q change is something she really needed. It was really unintuitive with the variable travel time. It's exactly the change the ability needed. Her W change is also a nice change as it was way too short, but it will still be too powerful early and too weak late. You should look at that power curve on her heal more than it's range. I'd suggest something like increasing the base health cost and adding an AP ratio that reduces it's health cost and reducing it's cooldown to 1 second at max rank, as the cooldown shouldn't be what makes you unable to save your AD carry from an assassin.
: I agree, Sion's Q is a staple of his main damage source and crowd control. It's just that it is very easy to counter-play and people can react on time just to stop his charging. I played Darius top against a Sion and obviously, I destroyed him because I always saved my E (the pull) whenever I see him use his Q. Sion is still a new champ, like literally a new champion, so Riot will definitely tune his stats and numbers in the future. Can't wait though! :3
Try leveling E first in lane. Spam it on minions to harass and you'll see it's much better than leveling Q. It also costs no mana (25 at max level is a joke).
: Sion's Q. Decimating Smash. Is Terrible: here is why
Have you tried using E instead of Q as your main laning tool, maxing it first? It works way better. Q is for picking the enemy when they least expect it and stunning them, it's not meant to be your main harass tool.
Rioter Comments
: It's always nice to have more options, I just hope that it is accomplished in a way that doesn't damage Sion thematically.
Of course, but I think Sion having magic is part of his theme, as that magic is what keeps him 'alive'.
: The AP scaling on his abilities is basically so you can have Trinity Force or Iceborn Gauntlet without the AP going completely to waste. AP Sion is very deliberately being nerfed, largely because it doesn't fit his theme: A giant axe-wielding juggernaut that does mostly magic damage? Doesn't make any sense that way. Also, Sion wouldn't be reworked if his previous incarnation was perfectly fine; it would make very little sense to expect the same type of gameplay from him after a rework on this scale.
He actually does mostly magic damage in lane with his E and W, so your argument there is not valid. Furthermore, even if you are AP, you are still going to use your Q and R because of the utility, so it's not like you're never going to use your axe, you just put more stress on your magical abilities (E and W). I'd buff the current AP ratios to make AP sion a choice. It's never bad to have more ways to build a champion.
: {Need] Riot SHOULD make a STICKY THREAD for every new Rework/Skin INSTANTLY after release into PBE.
I'd also ask Riot to try to be more active with the community the full PBE cycle. It feels like they just leave a ton of replies at the start and then disappear. Some people might have found some aspects of the rework/skin that hadn't been found before, and some people may be late to the discussion.
: Great analysis. You seem to be understanding and using the kit very well. We're still tuning some numbers, so I'll take your feedback into consideration as we go. Thanks for taking the time to really deep dive on the PBE.
Thanks for the response. I feel so much better when I see that my feedback was heard. Responding to each post giving an extensive analysis is something you (Riot) should be doing in every feedback thread, even if it's just a "Thanks for the feedback!". You don't know how much a simple message means to the person who did the post.
: I hope this piece of feedback is heard and Riot doesn't just ignore it like they did with the feedback I gave for the Soraka rework, otherwise I'm just not going to give feedback anymore. The new Sion is awesome. He can go pretty much everywhere except ADC. Let's break it down: **Abilities:** * **Passive: Glory In Death** This passive could be awesome in some situations, but it's a bit too easy to avoid even when using the MS boost. I'd give it a bit more MS or less decay, but that might make him OP. I don't think it's necessary for him to have this passive IMO. I feel like his kit is good enough without it. * **Q: Decimating Smash** This ability is a really good concept, and it has a lot of different uses, like harassing you opponent, waveclearing, using it after your ult for a long stun, protecting your ADC by zoning the enemies, or as a follow up for something like Sejuani's ult. Nothing to say about this. The enemy can cancel it so you can't use it whenever you want. It has a decent amount of counterplay for it's power. * **W: Soul Furnace** Same old good Sion's shield and passive. If you build tank, this ability still deals a lot of damage. The passive part is awesome but I feel like it shouldn't be tied to his W, as I often feel obligated to get W early to not waste that passive, even if I don't need the shield. * **E: Roar of the Slayer** This skill is so good. You use it on a minion and it goes towards your enemy, dealing a TON of damage. This is what you max first and it's your main harass tool. The tooltip should state the damage of the other enemies instead of just saying 50% more. It's better than having to calculate it every time, even though it's really easy to do 50% more. It can also be used on an enemy champion to reduce their armor 20% (which is huge). * **R: Unstoppable Onslaught** Beast ult, but very hard to use properly at max range. Using it at max range is really risky if you don't aim it properly or the enemy sees you.The camera has a lot of potential but I'm going to wait until it gets fixed to say if I like it or not. **Build paths:** This is where things start to be awesome for Sion. I'd say he has 3 ways to build him: * **Full tank:** This is the unkillable peeling machine route. Spirit of the ancient golem works wonders with his passive, and he can still deal quite a bit of damage with his W, as well as stun people with his Q and R and slow and reduce armor with his E. I think he needs a bit more base damage on his W to punish people for not breaking it, but overall he's pretty good. * **Bruiser:** This is the unkillable juggernaut route. He has a built-in armor reduction on his E, so he can deal quite a lot of damage with his autos and Q. Unfortunately you are really easy to kite, so you have to at least buy some defensive items to make up for that. The difference in damage between this route and the full tank one is not that much. * **AP Sion:** He can't build AP with it's current scalings, but I think it's awesome that you still retained his AP capabilities. You changed his kit in such a way that it allows this build to coexist with the other builds. There is no spell you don't want to use as AP Sion, and you still have all the counterplay of AD Sion, so it's even better than live AP Sion in terms of game health, but his AP scalings don't allow this to happen. He needs A LOT more AP ratio on his shield and a bit more on his E to make this route a possibility. PLEASE, buff his ratios. Continues...
**Positions:** * **Jungle:** As a jungler you have pretty good clear time and easy access to Spirit of the Ancient Golem, which is incredibly useful on sion, as his W passive counts as bonus health. Your ganks are not really that good as you have no gap closers, but if your laner has CC your ganks improve a lot. It's also easier to stack your W passive than in lane. Pick Q->W->E and max Q. * **Top:** He is really good top. He is a bit better than jungle IMO, as he has a very good harassing tool that can make the enemy laner mad: his E. His E is a skillshot, but unless Ezreal or Karma, you want to use it when you opponent is BEHIND the enemy minions. It costs almost no mana (25), so you should use it whenever it's off cooldown. Pick E->W->Q and max E. * **Support:** He can work pretty well as a support, but you have to be very careful not to take your ADC's farm. You can use your E to reduce the enemies' armor and slow them so that your ADC can proceed to kill him, or you can use your Q to protect your ADC from supports like thresh, leona or braum. The downside is that his W passive will go up very slowly. Pick the targon line so that at least you can have some of your W passive. * **Mid:** He can actually go mid as both Tank or AP. As you are melee you will have problems farming, but your waveclear, harass and shield mitigation make up for this (mostly if you go AP, even though it has bad ratios ATM). If the ratios on his W and E go up I can see AP Sion mid being a good pick.
: Sion Champion Update on the PBE!
I hope this piece of feedback is heard and Riot doesn't just ignore it like they did with the feedback I gave for the Soraka rework, otherwise I'm just not going to give feedback anymore. The new Sion is awesome. He can go pretty much everywhere except ADC. Let's break it down: **Abilities:** * **Passive: Glory In Death** This passive could be awesome in some situations, but it's a bit too easy to avoid even when using the MS boost. I'd give it a bit more MS or less decay, but that might make him OP. I don't think it's necessary for him to have this passive IMO. I feel like his kit is good enough without it. * **Q: Decimating Smash** This ability is a really good concept, and it has a lot of different uses, like harassing you opponent, waveclearing, using it after your ult for a long stun, protecting your ADC by zoning the enemies, or as a follow up for something like Sejuani's ult. Nothing to say about this. The enemy can cancel it so you can't use it whenever you want. It has a decent amount of counterplay for it's power. * **W: Soul Furnace** Same old good Sion's shield and passive. If you build tank, this ability still deals a lot of damage. The passive part is awesome but I feel like it shouldn't be tied to his W, as I often feel obligated to get W early to not waste that passive, even if I don't need the shield. * **E: Roar of the Slayer** This skill is so good. You use it on a minion and it goes towards your enemy, dealing a TON of damage. This is what you max first and it's your main harass tool. The tooltip should state the damage of the other enemies instead of just saying 50% more. It's better than having to calculate it every time, even though it's really easy to do 50% more. It can also be used on an enemy champion to reduce their armor 20% (which is huge). * **R: Unstoppable Onslaught** Beast ult, but very hard to use properly at max range. Using it at max range is really risky if you don't aim it properly or the enemy sees you.The camera has a lot of potential but I'm going to wait until it gets fixed to say if I like it or not. **Build paths:** This is where things start to be awesome for Sion. I'd say he has 3 ways to build him: * **Full tank:** This is the unkillable peeling machine route. Spirit of the ancient golem works wonders with his passive, and he can still deal quite a bit of damage with his W, as well as stun people with his Q and R and slow and reduce armor with his E. I think he needs a bit more base damage on his W to punish people for not breaking it, but overall he's pretty good. * **Bruiser:** This is the unkillable juggernaut route. He has a built-in armor reduction on his E, so he can deal quite a lot of damage with his autos and Q. Unfortunately you are really easy to kite, so you have to at least buy some defensive items to make up for that. The difference in damage between this route and the full tank one is not that much. * **AP Sion:** He can't build AP with it's current scalings, but I think it's awesome that you still retained his AP capabilities. You changed his kit in such a way that it allows this build to coexist with the other builds. There is no spell you don't want to use as AP Sion, and you still have all the counterplay of AD Sion, so it's even better than live AP Sion in terms of game health, but his AP scalings don't allow this to happen. He needs A LOT more AP ratio on his shield and a bit more on his E to make this route a possibility. PLEASE, buff his ratios. Continues...
: {{item:3078}}
Not worth. It gives you health, which you don't ever want to buy. The other sheen items are way better IMO.
: You won't necessarily need a tri-lane. Sona and Janna are unconventional, but they're capable of going mid (perhaps even Soraka is capable of going mid). I've heard Braum top is workable as well. So having a second support to heal/peel for Soraka seems realistic. A tri-lane with Soraka, Braum, and an adc seems like an interesting idea, not sure how it'd turn out though. Having Soraka roam between mid and bot to heal when mid gets below 40% could be a viable strategy.
Astral ambulance soraka FTW. Taric is the hospital and soraka stops there to replenish. :D
: From my experience in playing supports with lots of AP (so basically every game for me), even with sightstone taking up space, a support can have a lot of AP (500-550 with a full build). It takes longer to get such a build compared to a support build that doesn't have as much AP, but once again, trade-offs. You pay for quality. AP supports built pure AP make for very powerful supportive "glass cannons", this is especially true for Soraka. Her healing with high AP is kind of ridiculous, and her damage isn't bad either. I think she could be effective mid as a very defensive laner who denies enemy cs by healing their minions, but I've yet to mess around with her in lanes outside of support. It's an interesting thought though, and if she goes mid, then the bot lane support could peel for her and the team's adc. I'm thinking Soraka+Braum+adc = holy trinity? :p Another benefit to having her and another support on her team, is that her ult cleanses Grievous Wounds now, so it has synergy with other supports who have powerful burst healing (like Janna).
What I've actually seen is that she is REALLY good if she has someone that can heal her in her team (nami, sona, taric...). Laning against soraka and one of those gets ridiculous pretty quick. I don't know if it might be viable because that means either you don't pick an ADC or you have to do a tri-lane (which btw I haven't even tested in a long time).
: > * Suggestions: > 1. Add some way to scale the ability outside of just leveling it. This is the only ability soraka scales her heal with, and it stops at lvl 9. I'd add a passive to her ult to improve it's effectiveness on the later stages of the game. Ability power? That's kind of how all spells scale besides leveling them up? With the amazing ratios that she has, I think that'd go without saying. Before you say "but then I can't be tanky!", there are trade-offs. If you want powerful heals then you gotta play a squishy Soraka.
Of course AP goes well with her, but she is not going to have as much AP as a mage. She is probably going to hit 200 or 300 AP at most if she picks a support build. That said, the new damage on her E makes her a lot better when late game comes, but at dealing damage instead of healing (which is what she should be doing). She can actually go mid now and deal a decent amount of damage. EDIT: Updated my main post with some changes.
: ...Continued **Astral Infusion:** Really good improvement, but it suffers from the Zilean bomb syndrome. * Game time differences: 1. Early it's a bit OP. It gives your ally invencibility status, but on the other hand if the enemy focuses you, you'll just die. 2. Mid it's balanced. I can heal my allies really well, and her ult helps a lot. 3. Late it's ~~useless~~ useful to sustain your low health allies (EDIT: Changed my mind on this, it's actually useful for this purpose, but the rest of the points remain unchanged). You don't have enough HPS to avoid your ADC's death, and healing a tank is not woth it, as you're giving him less than 10% of their health most of the time, which is less than the cost of the spell. You can't stop someone from dying, but if they survive you can cap their health as long as you don't kill yourself. * Feel/clunkyness: ~~ 1. I heal minions and full health champions too much.~~ * Suggestions: 1. Add some way to scale the ability outside of just leveling it. This is the only ability soraka scales her heal with, and it stops at lvl 9. I'd add a passive to her ult to improve it's effectiveness on the later stages of the game. 2. Option 2: make the ability heal % max health instead of flat. This will reduce it's early game power and increase it's late game power, apart from being able to heal tanks better. 3. ~~ Make healing champions in need easier to do. I don't want to be healing full health minions or champions.~~ **Equinox:** Awesome improvement. This is the ability that is closest to a release state apart from her ult. * Feel/clunkyness: 1. I can't see the snare particles well enough. * Suggestions: 1. Make the snare particles more visible. **Wish:** Nothing to say about this. It is almost the same as live, and it is awesome.
Some extra stuff: **Chasing:** Chasing enemies with her feels very bad. Your Q is really bad for chasing, and your E only snares after 1.5 seconds, so she just can't chase enemies. She relies completely on her team to do this. ~~EDIT: Ok, the improved base speed has reduced that problem by quite a bit. If you get gauntlet it's pretty easy to chase now.~~ EDIT 2: Nevermind... **Low health:** Being at low health without nearby enemy champions is really weird, because you know you are a healer, but you can't actually heal yourself when ouside of combat. This is really awkward. I understand the balance choice but she should have some way to restore her health when not againt enemy champions. **Build:** This is what I felt the best build was. I have to say that she has very little defensive options: {{item:3069}}: This item line is the best for soraka, as it gives her MS and mana and life regen. Pick the last upgrade whenever you need it. Targon's line is not really a good choice as it has health, and Frostqueen's doesn't give her health regen, making her rely entirely on her Q to heal herself. It's not a bad choice if you are going to be very agressive, though. {{item:2049}}: Don't feel bad for picking this item, it actually only increases the health cost on your W by 15, which is not that bad considering the advantages it gives. Never upgrade it though. If you feel bad for doing this just pick wards. {{item:1001}}: Choose your boots depending on your needs. {{item:3504}}: AP, CDR and MS, on top of the passive. 25% attack speed for 6 seconds with a W on a 1.6 second cooldown means you can possibly give 3 allies 25% bonus attack speed for as long as you can sustain the cost. Your ult also activates it on the whole team. {{item:3023}}: This is also a pretty good item for her. It helps with scouting and gives her a nice MS boost. Choose between this and ardent censer for your item after sightstone. {{item:3025}}: What? Iceborn gauntlet? Yes, it is a really good item on her, as it gives her a really nice slow, 30 AP, 500 mana and 60 armor. She can spam heal-iceborn or starcall-iceborn on a 2 second cooldown. The drawback is that it is really expensive. (If you are low on mana and can't cast Q you can heal minions to escape by slowing your enemies). {{item:3222}}: This is not a bad item, but it's really expensive, and it's active is not as useful as it is in other supports, because you can just use your W. But you can use it on yourself, unlike your W, and you can remove CC with it, so it's very useful. The mana regen also helps quite a lot right now as she is very mana intensive. I'd choose between this and iceborn as a 5th item. {{item:3026}}: This is her best defensive option. Most other defensive items have health, which she doesn't want, or useless stats. I wouldn't pick anything else as a 6th item as you really need that tankyness. *Other items:* {{item:3110}}: This is a really good item but it has a ton of CDR you're probably going to waste on other supportive items. If you are good on gold you can pick this and go for full AP items on top of it to avoid that problem. {{item:3089}}: Expensive, but really good. I wouldn't pick this unless fed as it doesn't make you tankier. {{item:3100}}: This is if you want to deal damage while you heal. It actually works quite well, but it's a luxury item. {{item:3075}}: This is very selfish, but it's good if they have a lot of AD. Frozen heart is better than this, but if you really need more armor you can pick it on top of it. {{item:3157}}: Again luxury item. It's really good if you can afford it. {{item:3065}}: This would be core if it didn't have health on it. This makes this item mediocre. You can pick it, but it really only helps you to be a bit tankier, not to heal yourself better.
: Posting from a previous thread I made: I love that soraka is finally going to be a dedicated healer. I've been waiting for this for a really long time. I think her kit is overall better that it is in live, but it has quite a bit of flaws. I will break down the feedback in points of interest so that it isn't a big wall of text, and I'll only comment on the parts that I feel are lacking. This is what I have to say: **Salvation:** It feels like a good passive, but it feels really clunky. * Game time differences: 1. Early it feels useless (most of the time you are right next to your ally) 2. Mid it's really good and you can feel it helps quite a lot to reach your ally. 3. In teamfights it's useless most of the time unless you want to heal the tank, as you are next to your carries most of the time. * Feel/clunkyness: 1. When going through the jungle, you passive activates and deactivates reapeatedly, as you are not going in a straight line. 2. The particles are too subtle for a 70% MS boost. The particles should say "HUGE MS BOOST", and not "subtle ms boost". 3. The MS boost enabling and disabling continuously is really annoying. * Suggestions: 1. Make the boost last for 1 or 2 seconds after you stop moving in the direction of the wounded ally. This would allow some manouvering and remove the clunkyness. ~~Touch of the cosmos:~~ ~~This passive, although it is a nerf to her tank capabilities doesn't feel like it. It feels more like a unique trait that makes you say things like "Chalice is soo good, it gives her AP instead of MR", even when it's not true. This is some good design here, making a nerf feel like a buff. Nothing to say here.~~ EDIT: So you decided to remove it. It was a good nerf, but she really didn't need one, so I'm ok with that change. **Starcall:** Overall improvement from her old Q, but falls short in what could have been done. * Feel/clunkyness: 1. I don't know why a falling star has different speeds depending on the distance from soraka. It just makes little to no thematic sense. Balace-wise it is understandable, but you'd have to change the ability for it to make sense. 2. The type of skillshot is not good for this type of ability. AoE with sweetspot is good for making you aim your shot before using the ability. This makes it a really good fit for long-range high-cooldown abilities, as it increases the reward you can give someone, but it adds tension to it's use due to having to aim it so carefully. The amount of tension you release when you are rewarded changes with the reward, but the amount of tension that builds up is independent of the reward, as you always have to aim it. This means that a spammable ability with this trait is going to build a lot of tension that's not going to be realeased appropriately. * Balance: 1. ~~Mana cost is way too high for what it does. I get OOM really quickly.~~ 2. AP ratio is really low for the base damage it has. Not a big deal because she won't be getting tons of AP as a support, but it takes too much ap to double the base damage. This is a very minor issue as this is not her supposed strength. * Suggestions: 1. Change the theme on her Q. The falling star theme doesn't allow you to make that ability right. I'd suggest making her create a star from her staff and making it explode (like fireworks) as a way to make the time difference make sense. 2. Remove the sweetspot. It doesn't add anything to the ability apart from making it overly complicated. 3. ~~Reduce the mana cost.~~ Continued...
...Continued **Astral Infusion:** Really good improvement, but it suffers from the Zilean bomb syndrome. * Game time differences: 1. Early it's a bit OP. It gives your ally invencibility status, but on the other hand if the enemy focuses you, you'll just die. 2. Mid it's balanced. I can heal my allies really well, and her ult helps a lot. 3. Late it's ~~useless~~ useful to sustain your low health allies (EDIT: Changed my mind on this, it's actually useful for this purpose, but the rest of the points remain unchanged). You don't have enough HPS to avoid your ADC's death, and healing a tank is not woth it, as you're giving him less than 10% of their health most of the time, which is less than the cost of the spell. You can't stop someone from dying, but if they survive you can cap their health as long as you don't kill yourself. * Feel/clunkyness: ~~ 1. I heal minions and full health champions too much.~~ * Suggestions: 1. Add some way to scale the ability outside of just leveling it. This is the only ability soraka scales her heal with, and it stops at lvl 9. I'd add a passive to her ult to improve it's effectiveness on the later stages of the game. 2. Option 2: make the ability heal % max health instead of flat. This will reduce it's early game power and increase it's late game power, apart from being able to heal tanks better. 3. ~~ Make healing champions in need easier to do. I don't want to be healing full health minions or champions.~~ **Equinox:** Awesome improvement. This is the ability that is closest to a release state apart from her ult. * Feel/clunkyness: 1. I can't see the snare particles well enough. * Suggestions: 1. Make the snare particles more visible. **Wish:** Nothing to say about this. It is almost the same as live, and it is awesome.
: Soraka Rework Feedback Thread
Posting from a previous thread I made: I love that soraka is finally going to be a dedicated healer. I've been waiting for this for a really long time. I think her kit is overall better that it is in live, but it has quite a bit of flaws. I will break down the feedback in points of interest so that it isn't a big wall of text, and I'll only comment on the parts that I feel are lacking. This is what I have to say: **Salvation:** It feels like a good passive, but it feels really clunky. * Game time differences: 1. Early it feels useless (most of the time you are right next to your ally) 2. Mid it's really good and you can feel it helps quite a lot to reach your ally. 3. In teamfights it's useless most of the time unless you want to heal the tank, as you are next to your carries most of the time. * Feel/clunkyness: 1. When going through the jungle, you passive activates and deactivates reapeatedly, as you are not going in a straight line. 2. The particles are too subtle for a 70% MS boost. The particles should say "HUGE MS BOOST", and not "subtle ms boost". 3. The MS boost enabling and disabling continuously is really annoying. * Suggestions: 1. Make the boost last for 1 or 2 seconds after you stop moving in the direction of the wounded ally. This would allow some manouvering and remove the clunkyness. ~~Touch of the cosmos:~~ ~~This passive, although it is a nerf to her tank capabilities doesn't feel like it. It feels more like a unique trait that makes you say things like "Chalice is soo good, it gives her AP instead of MR", even when it's not true. This is some good design here, making a nerf feel like a buff. Nothing to say here.~~ EDIT: So you decided to remove it. It was a good nerf, but she really didn't need one, so I'm ok with that change. **Starcall:** Overall improvement from her old Q, but falls short in what could have been done. * Feel/clunkyness: 1. I don't know why a falling star has different speeds depending on the distance from soraka. It just makes little to no thematic sense. Balace-wise it is understandable, but you'd have to change the ability for it to make sense. 2. The type of skillshot is not good for this type of ability. AoE with sweetspot is good for making you aim your shot before using the ability. This makes it a really good fit for long-range high-cooldown abilities, as it increases the reward you can give someone, but it adds tension to it's use due to having to aim it so carefully. The amount of tension you release when you are rewarded changes with the reward, but the amount of tension that builds up is independent of the reward, as you always have to aim it. This means that a spammable ability with this trait is going to build a lot of tension that's not going to be realeased appropriately. * Balance: 1. ~~Mana cost is way too high for what it does. I get OOM really quickly.~~ 2. AP ratio is really low for the base damage it has. Not a big deal because she won't be getting tons of AP as a support, but it takes too much ap to double the base damage. This is a very minor issue as this is not her supposed strength. * Suggestions: 1. Change the theme on her Q. The falling star theme doesn't allow you to make that ability right. I'd suggest making her create a star from her staff and making it explode (like fireworks) as a way to make the time difference make sense. 2. Remove the sweetspot. It doesn't add anything to the ability apart from making it overly complicated. 3. ~~Reduce the mana cost.~~ Continued...
Rioter Comments
: What was the goal when designing Azir's e?
I think the spell was a mere dash. Then they decided it was too good so they gave the enemies counterplay by being able to body-block him. Then they gave him a shield to reduce how harsh it was for Azir.
: Why not just always give him a shield when he uses it?
That could work too, but it may be too much safety in lane.
: Thanks for your thoughts! I'm really excited for you to get your hands on her, and I hope that you share your thoughts about your experience after you do. Some questions for you, and everyone else who's willing to share: - Does the increased delay on Q actually change her effectiveness over the course of the game? I'm comfortable reverting this change, so I'd like to see what people think about it. It's a very minor increase, but I can see how it would have a large impact. - Does the focus on her E actually make her feel like less of a poison mage? Now her passive depends on poisoning things, the whole success of the character depends on her ability to manage her poisons properly :< I could see your point being the case though, despite this. I'd love to hear more about this as people get more games on her. - Are her 'mobility difficulties' an inappropriate problem on this champion? That is, do you feel you have the tools to outplay people with high mobility? My thinking is generally, "Okay, the (high mobility burst champ) has an edge on me, but if I land my ultimate, I'll be able to kill them before they kill me" Or something like this. Thanks again!
I think the problem here is that cassio had 2 possible interpretations, and you are encouraging one of them: AP Marksman. The other gameplay pattern was the poison mage, where you used your poison as a constant source of damage instead of your E. This means people who like the second interpretation don't like the changes. I feel part of the first group, and for me the changes are for the better, but I can really feel the other part of the community (The same thing happened with the Karma rework, and in that case I was on the other side). I think you really should make it possible to still use the poison as your main source of damage if you want. I'd suggest making the scaling on Q/W and E separate, so you can choose a path.
Rioter Comments
: Azir Bug Report Thread
Bug - Turrets can still be attacked by your soldiers through it's AOE. Turrets are not supposed to recieve damage from soldiers, but you can actually damage them if you don't attack the turret directly. How to reproduce: 1. Use your W next to a turret, or use Q to place it there. 2. Attack an enemy in the direction of the turret. 3. Turret will recieve damage from the AOE attack of the soldier.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Azir, the Emperor of the Sands
I had some trouble guessing if an enemy was in or outside the range of my soldiers, sometimes making me move to a wrong place and making me die. Is there any way you could make it better? **SUGGESTION:** Make the cursor change when your soldiers can attack a certain enemy, like when the cursor changes when placing a ward in a bush.
: Bugs: * Small Gnar's Q will disappear as it passes through things sometimes but reappear as it turns itself around * Big Gnar's Q will fire off into places where he cannot retrieve it (like the middle of walls or of the map entirely), I don't know if its intended or not but it is really unfortunate when you miss your Q only to have it just a couple inches into a wall so you cannot get it (maybe make it stop at walls no-mater the max range? would be a nerf but could be a nice mechanic for getting away from big Gnar) Feedback: * Gnar as a whole is really fun to play and a challenge to learn (which I really like). * Small Gnar's Small range and squishiness can be really punishable when behind, by no means is it awful and you don't need to change it but it can be really really hard to get enough rage to morph when your range puts you into the enemy teams kill zone and your already behind - Small Gnar not truly having an ult can be .. odd I guess, its just not very satisfying when you are in Small form. it is nice in a Yasuo way where he gets no ult without set up but still. has the idea for him getting an ult that lets him force morph but is tied to Big Gnar's ult CD just like his other abilities? this way it has a really large CD and makes it so you loose out on Big Gnar's ult but it can be really helpful in some situations especially when behind for above reasons i will edit and add more if I find more
I think the boulder not being able to go through walls would be cool. +1 there.
: Thanks for all the feedback folks! Wanted you to know that we are reading this stuff. Am currently swamped fixing bugs and whatnot for the little guy but will try to get here and respond to some posts this weekend! Thanks a ton!
Thanks a lot for telling us you're reading this. This is what you should do when asking for feedback. It helps a lot to see that our feedback has been at least read and considered as an option. :)
: Gnar gameplay and balance feedback
Balance thought: I'd keep an eye on his level 3 combo. I've been able to kill anyone with E into Mega - Auto - Q - Auto - W - Auto - Q
: So how have y'all been building Gnar?
The thing with TF is that he has the highest base damage in the game when in Mega form. he has 142 base damage at level 18 which translates into procs of 284 damage. The second highest would be cho with 129.7, so Gnar would be the one that benefits the most from the procs.
: The boomerang should actually stay the same in my opinion. You are the one actually controlling where the boomerang will be angled and go to like {{champion:119}} 's axes. The range is alright too because i think when you throw it, it usually a little bit farther than where your cursor is.
What I mean is that I loved that the boomerang had a bit more range on the way back at the cost of cooldown. The problem I see with it is that it is incredibly hard to land that way. All I want is for it to be easier to land, as right now is like using Ashe's ult from across the map. Or at least give it a bit more power when used that way so that the loss on CDR is worth it. I think it should make you decide whether loosing cooldown and having more power (in the form of increased range) or just using it the normal way.
: Gnar gameplay and balance feedback
First of all, well done to all the people who designed this champion, I think this is now my favourite champion (and I've only played him a few times) His gameplay design is awesome, and comboing E with transforming and ulting is an awesome combo (although I'm pretty sure this was a bug you decided to keep :P). His boulder feels awesome to throw and pick, and all of his abilities have really awesome mechanics. Now even though he's awesome, there are some things I would change: * I really like that you can throw the boomerang and hit someone behind you, so maybe you could make that mechanic worth using and make it a bit easier to pull off: * Make the boomerang return to where it was thrown instead of how it is now. This would make it easier to land. * Make the boomerang have even more range on its way back so that it's worth the increased cooldown. Something like double the normal range: >································X················> * I've never liked abilities that reduce their damage each time they hit something. I feel bad for hitting minions, and hitting someone alone doesn't give enough good feedback to fix that problem. I'd prefer a boomerang with reduced damage that deals the same damage to everyone than making it hard to guess the damage it will do to each target. If it has too much waveclear, you could reduce the damage dealt to minions. * I don't think the attack speed buff on his E is necessary. It feels strange and that power could be allocated somewhere else.
: Gnar Balance Discussion
I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE Gnar. He's AWESOME :D But there are some things I don't like and feel like could be changed. I really like that you can throw the boomerang and hit someone behind you, so maybe you could make that mechanic worth using and make it a bit easier to pull off: * Make the boomerang return to where it was thrown instead of how it is now. This would make it easier to land. * Make the boomerang have more range on its way back so that it's worth the increased cooldown. Something like this: >································X················> I think the reason the boomerang feels like it doesn't deal damage is the decay it has. I've never liked abilities that reduce their damage each time they hit something. I feel bad for hitting minions, and hitting someone alone doesn't give enough good feedback to fix that problem. I'd prefer a boomerang with reduced damage that deals the same damage to everyone than making it hard to guess the damage it will do to each target. If it has too much waveclear, you could reduce the damage dealt to minions. I don't think the attack speed buff on his E is necessary. It feels strange and that power could be allocated somewhere else.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I think it's a very fair criticism that I didn't speak to you all as much as you'd hoped for. Saying that only 3 comments on one thread doesn't suffice? That get's a bit tricky. What is the correct ratio of posts? Do I only count posts that have actually tried to open or inform a conversation, or should I count troll posts and people raging without having even played the rework? At what point is my time posting and searching for ambient Sona threads better spent talking with our QA, live balance team, and experimenting with changes, tweaks and bug fixing? It's very possible that I didn't get that formula even close to right. It's something for me to improve on. That being said, when I look at posts that have lots of incorrect information, I started the time on PBE correcting them to make sure truthful information would be visible. Seeing those posts then get downvoted tells me that this community would rather punish someone they don't agree with rather than provide its members with the most accurate info. That's really depressing for me, both as a community member and a designer. It also doesn't help when words get put into my mouth. For E, example, I don't think the AP ratio "balances the ability." I think a completely new ability that gives Sona, as well as her allies a very large block of MS makes sense on a kit that focuses on positioning. Sona can now position for huge ults without Flash due to E, as well as use her other basic abilities with quicker repositioning to save her team and power them up. When we change a champion, some of the balance will be comparative, but plenty of it can't be. Sona is Sona, and her balance as a whole is very different than any other champion. Sona has to be balanced of the collection as her base stats, abilities, growth, item paths, etc. I know it can be frustrating to see a value go down, and it can be easy to dwell on that change in isolation. When we're adjusting Sona, we're looking at the whole, and when she was showing up really strong, we tried to keep her power in the places that gave Sona her own set of strengths and weaknesses. That means she has to be worse at some things than other champions, but she gets to have strengths that are actually her own.
Do you think you could make her E a bit more satisfying to use? I'm not going to deny it's got a fair amount of power, but right now it feels useless unless you tag 2 or 3 allies with it, and you don't even notice the active sometimes.
: Of course I would love to have this, but I think this would make her too strong. Speeding everyone up while giving (possibly) your whole team slows and then buffing her E powerchord to a snare, which is much more powerful than a slow. Honestly it would just make her too strong I think.
I know a snare is way more powerful, but remember the cooldown for her E passive went from 7 to 12 seconds, so I think a 1 second snare every 7.2 seconds at best is not that powerful. Also remember tagging allies is not that easy, so the slow is not going to ever be a 5 player slow, and the active would be what live sona has, just lasting for only 0.5/1 seconds, which gives you better feedback. If the snare is too much, the slow could be increased a bit so that the aura tag doesn't render it useless.
: I have to agree, Song of Celerity has always been fairly weak, really. I've never seen much use in ranking it more than once early on simply because, in the long and short of things, either of her other basic abilities would be better off with that rank up. I mean, yeah, the E power cord's great, and I know for a fact it's let me secure more than a few kills for my team in the past, but the speed boost has just never felt strong enough to rank over her other skills. Keep in mind, though, that when coming up with Ideas for changing it you need to have the theme of the ability in mind. Celerity means "swiftness of movement," so when you think of ideas for it they'll need to have something to do with mobility. You also need to keep in mind that a lot of Sona's power budget is taken up by her other skills, and a buff to her E might mean decreasing the power of one or more of her other abilities. All that said, I'm a fan of turning E into a very short range dash, Al la {{champion:76}} . why? Because her new auras are a much shorter range than her old ones. She needs to be closer in the action for them to take effect, and so a short dash(Nothing major. Wall jumping would be restricted to the thinner of walls) would help her reposition herself to take advantage of her other abilities. The aura I would leave as-is, because as far as passive effects go it's VERY good. While this probably wouldn't switch Song of Celerity away from it's status as a one-point wonder, It would go miles towards making the skill FEEL better in my opinion (fan though I am of *light-speed Sona,* in a real game being able to afford the items that make that a reality while still helping your team is a bit of a stretch.) Giving Sona a dash though, while certainly satisfying for the person playing her, would require a lot of balancing. Not necessarily around the Dash, either. By nature of being a part of sona's kit, the dash would be relatively spammable so that she can use the aura. Likely the spell's mana cost would go up, and her damage would also probably take a hit as a result of her new positioning skill. Imagine a world were Sona never needs to blow flash to get off that perfect ultimate. Yeah, scary, huh? Or imagine tossing out your Q, then Eing away from any return fire before the enemy has a chance to respond! Hell, Sona's a relatively terrifying champion, damage-wise. Imagine having a full AP Sona dash out of a brush and Q > Ult > Lichbane empowercord your squishiest squishy to death before flashing over a wall to the safety of her team. Such a thing is frightening indeed. So yeah, while a dash would be nice, we need to keep in mind just how much potential Sona already has. I personally LIKE being able to lay the smackdown on the people hurtin' mama sona's babeh/carry, so if it means sacrificing her support damage potential I'm not sure I *want* her E to be much better. Just a friendly reminder that, while I'm totally in favor of making E feel more useful, it WILL come at a cost. Any ideas we have need to keep that in mind.
I don't think a dash would be a good option. Giving more champions that don't need it a dash is only going to make things worse with the mobility creep. Sona doesn't need a dash, she needs to be fast enough to apply the auras to some champions. The problem right now is that E doesn't give you anything if you can't apply the aura, and giving her a way to apply the aura with the active on the same ability is not good design.
: Sona's E suggestions from the community. Please contribute guys.
What about this? * Initial cast grants nearby (W range more or less) allies a boost of 10/15/20/25/30% Movement Speed that lasts for 1 second * Aura grants allies a 10/15/20/25/30% slow on their next attack that lasts for 2 seconds. * Aura lasts 3 seconds, extended by 0.5 seconds for each ally tagged * Power chord now snares for 1 second
: Love everything except E. It feels... so useless. I don't know. It's hard to apply to the allies I want to apply it to because of the limited range and giving a 10% MS buff for 1.5 seconds every 12 seconds doesn't really feel helpful. It also puts her E Power Chord on a longer cooldown now, which is her only form of CC when Crescendo is on cooldown. I wish there was more reward to Power Chord management
I agree in that it FEELS useless. It actually helps quite a bit when you have some AP going on, BUT it makes you feel bad when you couldn't apply it to someone that dies because he wasn't fast enough, and aplying it correctly doesn't give you enough satisfaction. As a suggestion, I think that making it have an additional effect, just like the other abilities, could help to make it feel better. Maybe something like giving a MS boost to the furthest away champion in a big area (like her heal). Something to help disengage.
: This was something we debated on for a quite a while, and the main reason it took so long to reduce any cooldown. The current thought is that the decreased cooldown of Q is worth more than the unity of spell cooldowns.
Glad to see this was something you debated. After playing with her I can see this isn't really an issue because in live you pretty much only spam your Q, so it doesn't have that much of an impact. After playing against bots (200 ping) I have the following feedback: **Overall:** * She feels like live Sona now with her reduced Q cooldown, so congrats on that. She definitely has more risk involved in her playstyle and the rewards for correctly playing her have increased dramatically. **Abilities:** * Her passive is the same, nothing to note here. * Her Q feels great. * Her W feels great. * Her E feels weak in lane. Its AP ratio makes it good enough for late game teamfights, so I'd suggest moving a bit of the AP ratio power to it's base amount, and increasing it's overall power a bit. * Her R is the same as live. **Strengths and weaknesses:** * Strenths: * Poke (High impact and medium risk in lane. Low impact and very high risk in teamfights). * Sustain (High impact and low risk in lane. Medium impact and low risk (backline) / high risk (frontline) in teamfights). * Mobility (Low impact and low risk in lane. Medium impact and low risk (backline) / high risk (frontline) in teamfights). * Weaknesses: * AOE damage (Medium impact. Snuggle zones cause this). * All-ins (Medium impact. Low defenses cause this). * AOE all-ins (High impact, almost hard countered by this, the above two things cause this). **Visual update:** * Her ult particles are nice, but I'd like them to be shaped like notes. This is just my opinion. * The update is well done and I have no other complaints.
: Newest Sona Update!
I really appretiate you listened to our feedback and reduced some cooldowns, although now I'm concerned that the cooldowns are different. I feel like Sona's 3 basic spells having the same cooldown was a part of her, and making those cooldowns different not only is counterintuitive, but removes a part of her identity. Maybe I'm alone, but those are my concerns.
: Sona Update is back! Feedback and changes here!
I feel like Sona's E has always been a bit out of place in her kit, so I'd want to ask the quick question of whether you've tried to change that speed buff into another kind of team utility that feels more powerful (mana regen, reducing your teammates cooldowns by some amount...) I think you should take into consideration that most of us don't really like her E and try to make a better spell that fits into the "utility" song (attack, defense, utility).
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Jimmynator

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