: Swain W (Nevermove) Nerf PBE 23/11 Context required
I think it has to do with DFT, though I agree, some context would be nice. Hopefully someone will give us a clue of why.
: Banning new champs, or champs with significant changes shouldn't be possible on PBE
While I agree with your point, I disagree with your name sir! {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
: But it's contradictory to put distance between myself and my spirit and to attack Illaoi, especially if I'm melee, since the spirit wont be far from her given her short range. For a ranged champ, sure, maybe you could pull that off. but GL with a melee champ; you'd be playing right into her hand.
You are right about that. To be honest I'm expecting if anything in her kit gets nerfed, it will be that ability first. About the only good part is that it's not going to be maxed first, your Q is far too good to not max first and the E is far too unreliable to try to max first.
: Illaoli Counterplay on E
As Illaoi, just hitting the spirit doesn't do much. The biggest damage comes from hitting both spirit and the actual champ with your tentacles and Q. Put some distance between you and your spirit and start smacking her hard, so long as you avoid the AoE from her tentacles you should come out on top of the trade. One of the hardest aspects of the E is simply landing it, it honestly feels harder to hit than both Blitz and Thresh Q. It's rewarding as heck when you do hit it, but it's still hard to hit. Honestly it's about the only ability in her kit that seems a bit too over the top, wouldn't be surprised if Riot tones it down before she hits live.
Rioter Comments
: Too many ADCs in mid lane
Welcome to the PBE. We are currently testing changes to marksmen and their itemization. If you're experiencing a higher than average level of marksmen in your games. THIS IS WHY!
Rioter Comments
: guys let me turn this around here yes testing great but there is at least two points i can make right now that you will not have an answer for: 1. what are you trying to test marksmen or the new champ select b/c its rare as all hell to be able to test both. if you want to test marksmen or any champ for that matter to crunch munber and test build paths simple go to customes. if you want to test the new champ select then go just dont expect to playtest anything else besides that mode. 2. its human nature to try to win we are all guilty of this, so with that in mind what do you want to do when your in a game against another person? ... anyone .... no ..... the answer is _**win**_. plz keep all this in mind the next time you post a thread, make a comment, and/or play a game thank you.
Customs are harder to pull off now with the server limitations. You need at least two players to start a custom game, it's currently frustrating to test out if you just want to test out builds or changes to champs.
: TO MUCH DODGING CAN I PLEASE PLAY A GAME
All I wanted was to test a build on TF. Can't even play due to the changes. :|
: Smaller 5.22 Marksmen Changes PBE Feedback Thread
I gotta say, I like the Varus changes, though I was wondering if you were looking at his Passive any? Outside of making CSing a bit easier it really doesn't feel impactful unless you're snowballing. Even a small AS boost on auto attacks would be nice.
: Vladimir [W]
Untargetable means no leash, therefore the camp resets and heals up.
: Part of why he's being used as Support is because his Q can heal his ADC very effectively. That's why they're nerfing his heal numbers.
Could also partly be due to the new items out. Haven't tried them on him, but I see no reason why they wouldn't have synergy with him.
: If Twitch really is weak compared to Kalista as you say, then straight up buffing his E, for example by removing the cap, isn't the answer. If they do, Twitch will become the superior choice for enjoying this stacking mechanic, and Kalista will be forgotten. It'll only further homogenize them. Riot has expressed how they dislike tuning numbers like this. Whenever champions share a core gameplay pattern, such as auto attacking to get stacks to activate for a burst of damage, there's always a "best" one of the bunch. It turns into an arms race of nerfing and buffing in and out of viability. Similarly, if they just buff up his laning phase, he'll go back to being a terror all game (already being a lategame hypercarry) and dominate the enemy adc the entire time. He's very binary because of his design, like most assassins. Either he murders his opponent every time he walks into lane, or he cowers under turret. The best answer I can think of would have to be adjusting or shifting focus from Twitch's E, or abilities that interact with it, to be different enough from Kalista's so that there's a reason to choose either one. So rather than focusing on how similar they are, let's focus on what makes Twitch different. Twitch: +High map pressure when missing because of his stealth. +Builds critical strike, lending high damage lategame. +True damage. -Immobile, especially compared to Kalista. -Dependent on ult lategame. -Expunge has a stack cap If we want to emphasize these strengths and weaknesses that differentiate him from Kalista, or just slightly buff Twitch, here are a couple ideas: Moving some auto attack range, like 25, from his ultimate to his base amount could lower his dependency on his ultimate, and help differentiate him from Kalista. (as well as buff his laning phase a bit) Having his Expunge refresh the duration of his passive could put a greater focus on the interaction between his E and passive. Adding % max/missing health damage to Expunge could differentiate it from Rend. Slightly increasing the width of Twitch's ultimate projectile would make him more reliable. Could come at the cost of decreasing his base MS. Increase the attack speed gained from Ambush, but have it ramp up over the stealth duration. (would eliminate the weird case of just using ambush mid-fight or while taking down a tower to get an attack speed boost) Decrease the damage of Expunge, but have it deal true damage at maximum stacks. This would make the stack cap feel beneficial, rather than like an arbitrary limitation. It would also emphasize Twitch's role as a dealer of true damage.
What about moving the AS from Ambush to his passive, allowing him to gain more AS the more passive stacks he has on the field? With a cap obviously, but still could be something. Another idea could be to allow his passive true damage to crit perhaps? At current it maxes at 36 per stack and 216 at max stacks. Even with 50% crit chance and IE it would only up the damage to 378 at max stacks (Each stack having it's own damage factor, one critting wouldn't cause the others to increase in damage, only that particular stack.) It would still end up being less than {{summoner:14}} at 410 true damage over five seconds.
: Change Mordekaiser back.
People actually think Morde bot is going to catch on. Very likely it's going to quickly be considered troll pick til it's picked up in LCS. After that it'll be meta for a patch then get a minor nerf and be considered a troll pick again...
: Login Error
Had the problem last night, figured it was a server having a hiccup, hopefully it's been fixed.
: Whenever I try to play Morde as the "ADC", people think I'm supporting
: Mordekaiser's W needs something else to do when it's only you.
What about moving the MS part of his W to the passive portion, that way when a jungler comes to gank it gives Morde that big boost of speed? He can use it pretty much any time in a duo lane, so why not let it be a bit more accessible?
: Mordekaiser Change Summary & Feedback Thread
I've been wracking my brain for a few days over the Morde changes and I've a couple of ideas I want to run by you. Have you considered upping the range on Morde's Q by about 50 or so? The idea is to make it easier to hit enemies at a range when they try to kite. This might already be covered by his E but I figured it was worth asking. For his W, have you considered making his move speed into part of the passive with increased range? This way it would be a big boon to Morde in both solo and duo lanes when it comes to ganks. If you're worried about counter play to this, it's possible you could give him the run animation from ghost while he gets this bonus. Otherwise I think most of the changes are rather fine and I hope to see more. :)
: Unique champs do not mean balanced or healthy. It really doesn't matter if they're popular, they are still unhealthy to a proper gaming environment. He's not arguing those champs are popular, but he also says popularity doesn't make things ok in terms of balance.
Hence why he's not the end all, be all on these things. He's the main factor here, but he's not the head of Riot and he IS accountable to anyone else helping him with this rework as well as the balance team.
: >A track record of putting out some of the most popular champs in league history. How many times must this be argued? That's a bullshit response to defend obviously broken kits and you know that. If not, crawl out of the fanboy hole and consider the reality of the situation. Just because something is fun to play, doesn't mean it's healthy for the game. CertainlyT has made the some of the most frustrating, agonizing, and downright unfair champions on the roster to play against, and they're only getting worse as time goes on.
Except I don't play his champs, so your argument is invalid. Not to mention, your claim doesn't refute the proof, he has made several very popular champ, some of the most popular in the entire game. Whether they are healthy for the game or not, the fact remains he has put out some truly unique champs.
: nerf chogath
Lol, Cho sleeper OP, he's properly gated though, nerfing him in one of those aspects would either leave him in a bad spot or require a buff in another area.
: not enough MR items
{{item:3060}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3190}} {{item:3065}} Hm, idk. Maybe bring Odins Veil or Puppeteer over to SR?
: What makes you think _you_ of all people are able to determine what's healthy or not based on your track record of outrageously toxic and unfun designs?
A track record for trying to come up with new an inventive kits. A track record for coming up with designs that push the boundaries of what EVERYONE thinks is possible in this game. A track record of putting out some of the most popular champs in league history.
: I'm going to echo the sentiment that this is total garbage. I will be refunding my Mordekaiser skin--the new King of Clubs skin that I really enjoyed--if this goes live. You're absolutely right that Mordekaiser could not be a marquee example of a healthy solo lane champion in his current live state. I imagine that's why you were tasked with working on him. Instead of actually working to fix the issues, however, you decided to 180 the champ. You want to know how you compromise Mordekaiser? **By making him dependent on other champions!** This is THE absolute WORST and I mean WORST abandonment of champion identity I have ever seen, and I've been supporting Riot since before Season 1. You took the metal-clad shade that rips people's souls out and decided he would be healthier if he worked with a buddy. What were you thinking? I don't think anyone can argue that Morde didn't need a lot of work, but honestly, even knowing you were the one responsible I'd never have even conceived of this kind of change. If you want to experiment with variations on the way the game can be played, that's a stellar undertaking and one I wholeheartedly endorse. Having different kinds of team compositions and lane setups is fresh, innovative, and a direction I'm totally willing to explore. You should design some new champs with that in mind. What you should _not _ do is take champions that have established identities and roles and **force** them into your experimental mold---a mold, might I add, that based on your admitted track record with champs like Yasuo, does not sell. The champs that end up being embraced in multiple positions are universally the ones that the community determines can go there--not the ones you assign. Tahm Kench despite being an awesome character design is a mechanical train wreck with no successful role, and Yasuo is a hard and fast solo assassin. No exceptions. He's more successful in a duo lane bot? How often is he in a duo lane bot among all games played? I'm willing to be wrong on that point. After all, if you're designing a champ you can jolly well force it into whatever role you want. Just give it abilities that are absolutely useless without another champ present. But when you shoehorn champs like that you're doing work that's better left undone. You're enforcing a meta contrary to the company's oft-stated intentions, and more importantly, in this instance, you're annihilating the trust of players who have put their faith in the company's willingness to preserve player sentiment towards its assets. Forcing Morde to be played in a duo lane (or else lose 1/5 of his kit) means that I will no longer get to play Morde in a competitive environment--even if I wanted to--because when I play with my friends I play solo top. That's absolutely the first and only time that's ever happened to me. Even with the support reworks and the changes to Lulu that made her much harder to function top (I didn't play her then anyway, so it's a moot point for me personally, but a valid one nonetheless), it was still possible to take her top without making her abilities non-functional--unlike champs like Kalista, who are designed and released from the outset to have ally dependencies in their kits. This is a long post, but this is my feedback. It is 100% unacceptable to use established champions as a way to experiment with the meta. What kind of response would you expect if someday one of your co-workers announced that because of his reliance on abilities Lucian was to be given good AP ratios, have his auto-attack functionality slashed, and expected to be played as a mage mid? --and let's face it, Lucian's a tough champ to balance; maybe that's what he needs to be healthy. or maybe someone realizes Anivia has good auto-attack range, so her damage should be cut down, her attack speed should be buffed, and she can be a marksman? Do either of those sound absurd to you? Well that's exactly what you've done to Mordekaiser. You've taken a champion and bolted mechanics on him to force him into a new role that is thematically antithetical to him and offensive to his fans. Even conceding that his solo lane potential might still exist in a heavily nerfed form, you've by design made it suboptimal. If you decided that you couldn't handle the backlash from making the necessary changes to make Mordekaiser viable to the players who already play him, you should have offered to give the project to someone who could stomach doing what needed to be done instead of taking him from us and giving him to a completely different set of players. Thanks for your time.
>You're absolutely right that Mordekaiser could not be a marquee example of a healthy solo lane champion in his current live state. I imagine that's why you were tasked with working on him. Instead of actually working to fix the issues, however, you decided to 180 the champ. Would you prefer a {{champion:14}} lvl rework in order to make him the solo lane champ you want?
: Randuins stacking -% crit (additively)
Hm, won't be surprised if it's passive is made unique soon. The question is will it stack with the mastery?
: Dead Man's Plate heading to Summoner's Rift on the PBE
: Game crash then return to home screen
Same issue here. I was trying to play Elise if that helps. I also run Windows 7, not sure if that makes a difference or not. I've tried twice, tried a few different tricks but haven't been able to get in. =/
: Where can i see PBE changes?
Same as others say, surrender@20 is the best site to go to for changes.
: In regards to the Evelynn changes on the PBE
I'm curious too. I'm not wanting to complain, simply have a little context to these changes. Is Riot wanting to alter her gank style? If so an idea of what they have in mind would be nice. Eve is a tricky champion in the first place, this change certainly won't make her any easier to play properly.
: no, don't fix it i'd like to see some friendly fire like in good old wc3 dota xD stealing last hits from enemies n'stuff ;)
: Some might argue that this is kind of OP, because then it would stack like 6 AP per Q, but still, that isn't that much of a difference honestly.
I figured it could be seen as such lol, it would definitely make it much easier for him to farm the whole wave earlier in the game. Granted, around lvl 10 or a bit earlier, it's possible to farm the whole lane with Q as it is, give or take some harass lol.
Rioter Comments
: Health and mana bar missing
It seems to be a pretty common bug, easily dealt with though thankfully. Hopefully they can find and raid it soon.
: Personally, I like the changes to Veigar. As a champion, his goal is to counter other AP champions, and prior to these changes he seemed to counter any champion. The goal of the stun changes were to make it more difficult to hit but still possible. His Horizon is way more than just a tool to stun and trap enemy champions. To me, it's a good tool for dictating where fights are going to happen. If team fights break out in the jungle, it seems almost impossible to not hit his stun. As of the new patch Veigar comes across as more of a skill-based champion where you have to predict enemy movements rather than just point and click.
Agreed, he needs to be more thoughtful of where he drops it instead of just aiming to stun as many people as possible or directly stunning your primary target. It still feels like the delay is too long though. .5 cast time plus .75 delay? Just ouch. =/ It really feels like it's impossible to cage someone unless they are already slowed or hard CC'd.
Rioter Comments
: He is still a monster in 1v1. He always will be... *to an extent*. The only downside against these types of situations is that he is far too easy to avoid, and even easier to outrun or kite; He *cannot* stick around in fights even if someone only has light or moderate cc or abilities to kite. I love Mordekaiser though - He is (even if they never had reworked him at all) and always will be my all time favorite champion. I appreciate the improved utility of his shield, but it feels a little moot for about half the game, as he is usually laning alone (although I guess it could be used to effect at this point in the game when the jungler comes in).
You can drop the shield on a melee or seige minion, not only making ganking you more dangerous, but allowing you to push harder. o.0
: Morde is League's red-headed bastard stepchild who can't find his way in life, apparently. Morde used to be a slow moving, close range cannon of death, especially with DFG (Which I've always referred to as Morde's best ability, jokingly). At moments late game, he was a scary champ to 1v1. This was appropriate, considering his relatively low speed and how close he had to be to nuke you, and it wasn't that unbalanced. Once DFG was removed, it was a soft nerf on Morde. I appreciate the reduced health cost of some abilities, and the shield buff for allies/himself, but all in all Morde has the least built in sustainability of any health caster, and it gets frustrating. Maybe it's all too soon to tell. Maybe once the new 120 AP item comes out, and once everything goes live, it will be fine. Who knows. I guess I'll see how he plays on live servers soon enough (and maybe I'm just being pessimistic), but I have my doubts that these minor changes will do well to revitalize my all time favorite champion. (Also, I should note that I am probably more upset about Morde's changes than I should be. When I saw the initial changes they were experimenting with, I thought it was great! Reduce some damage a bit, reduce health cost a bit, and make him into more of a tanky AP bruiser. That sounded awesome!! [And made more sense, too. Morde is way too squishy for how big and heavily armored he looks])
Truthfully, I already play him as an AP bruiser. After getting revolver, I can typically sustain my way through most fights. Come mid and late game, Morde becomes a powerhouse that you simply can't out push and can't 1v1 without a lot of heavy CC and burst. And with the buff on his W, his team fight capabilities have taken a significant upswing.
: When I do play her I'm fine (jungle item, hex tech, bork, tri force than an ap item or ad item depending on which i use more, my q or e). But she is very squishy early game and if you make a mistake you will be executed. (maybe she could have some more early game health or buffs for early game?)
Honestly, a little extra sustain would be nice on her. I'm almost ready to try picking up spellvamp quints on her to see how that affects her early game.
: Aatrox solodragon at lvl 1
More proof, Dragon needs a friggen buff.
: It was never "toxic". How it was different from any other cc or stuns in the game except having longer duration and being 10x harder to use? As I said in other topics, sure: reduce duration, or range or turn it into non-aoe, but adding delay destroys this champion because his combo is no longer.. a combo, even if executed properly. Do we have "delay" on amumu ult? or fiddle fear? or annie ult+passive combo (stun entire team immediately if used correctly AND deal damage)? Veigar stun nerf makes no sense at all.
Lets up Fiddles fear range and make it keep you in place long enough for Fiddle to use his entire damage rotation on you.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rosabel,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=EaAxRyr6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-22T12:07:05.163+0000) > > Just played a game against new Veigar and I do like what they did to his E, but I think I'd feel the same as you if I played him myself, though. > They did increase his range on E, but I feel they should increase it a little bit more now with the indicator to make it fair. Yes of course, because new veigar is terrible. Free win inc. when you see him. Veigar players understand that he wasn't overpowered and top league players understand it even better, and they showed it by not picking Veigar at any major tournaments (unless as support, occasionally). That's a fact that Veigar was hated mostly by players from lower leagues, which had no idea what to do to couter him. But again, many champs is annoying for players in lower leagues.
No, Veigar wasn't overpowered, that long range stun though was a bit toxic, the delay removes the toxicity from it. The delay is too long though. Dropping it to .5 or .25 might make it balanced. Or at least adding a slow to the inside of the stun zone before the stun hits to actually give you a chance to hit it. When Brand can walk from the middle of your circle, out of stun range before it even hits, then something is very VERY wrong.
: Forgotten Brand
I won't argue that Brand could use a little love, though I'm not certain where he sits in respective order as far as which champs are getting attention at this time. If you're a Brand main, then rest assured, it's very likely he is going to be getting attention in the near future.
: I think some other champs should be listed here like Evelynn as she needs some re-work. (Not sure what exactly as I'm still new to these things, but there are many jungles who play much better than her even though she has some moments). Although I agree on Elise as she is very squishy, and could use some buffs.
I'm not certain Eve needs too much. Trying out an on hit style build with Devourer, Bork then tank items. So far it's been working out quite well. Granted, her early game is still incredibly weak.
: PLease, 0.75 on his E is an omicide. I main him since I started this game and this change will kill his gameplay against high mobility assassins like Zed, Riven or Fizz. You are killing him, please change this or he will be completely unplayable. I have no problems with other change but the E, it's too high. Low it or he will be the next Gragas... *edit. Grammar
As much as I like the direction Riot is taking with Even Horizon (E), I've got to agree. .75 looks good on paper, but in game it's proving far too easy for champions to run from the center outside the circle and stun range before it even goes off. About the only way I catch people is if they make the mistake of running around in minion waves or are already CC locked. I'm begging Riot to try out the delay at .5 or .25 to see how that handles. As much as I agree the stun needs counterplay, right now it's simply been hit too hard to ever be effective.
: The problem with that idea is that they wanted to add counter-play to Veigar, but by having the delay last this long they have made it really hard to land the stun or to even cage the enemy. I have tried many times to get the cage to land, but most of the times, the enemy just walks away from it completely. I would I have liked the stun have a .5 delay instead like many are suggesting, or have the range increase so that you can safely land it at least in the center of the champion, so that they can't walk away from it. While they have mentioned Veigar as one of the champions getting a buff, for the removal of DFG, I believed that they nerfed him harder than ever. It makes it really hard to land your W, cause landing the stun was crucial for landing the W. Overall the stun needs to be changed, I believe they will have to address this when it goes live, because this will hurt Veigar's pick/win rate.
I haven't had the chance to try it yet, but I suspect with the new 120AP item, a lot of Veigars issues will be solved as far as burst goes. Aside from that, I think minor tweaks to E can make it healthy while still viable. I'm hoping Riot will try out a shortened delay time for at least a day or two to see how it would work, if it's too short of a delay, then they can work it back up until it feels just right.
: i had this problem it says you have 0 ip but you can still buys stuff in the store, after your first purchase with 0 rp it will say you have 100000 ip and it also ranks your account to lvl 30
Really? I had to log back in before I could buy *shrugs* May just be a rare bug I found.
: Let's talk about Mordekaiser.
With the recent changes, Morde is very strong. I agree that some form of CC would be nice on him, even if it was nothing more than an interrupt on his Q for whatever target he autos. I would love it if the W games him some ms even without the ally buff. His E I think is good as is, it's his best ranged ability and is unique in his kit as it is. His changed ult I think is a BIG buff as it gives him and the ghost usable stats instead of random stats.
: Graves Damages
Graves does have high damage, but he also has his cons as well. Honestly I'd rather leave number changes up to Riot as I don't see myself or most of the player base as qualified to determine healthy numbers for this game. Could Graves survive a minor reduction to his damage, sure. I'm not sure he needs it, but then I just enjoy playing the game lol.
: Feedback on semi-locked camera
I'm honestly loving the semi-lock camera, though I can see obvious issues for anyone that gets too used to it. It's excellent for longer ranged champs looking to seige, though for more mobile champs, I'd still suggest knowing when to unlock the camera to center on your target, otherwise expect to miss EVERYTHING. I also agree that being able to re-center on the champ would be a nice addition, perhaps after locking back onto your champ?
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J3an Luc Picard

Level 30 (PBE)
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