: I didn't even mention it, because of how bad it is in my honest opinion
I like they added an AP scaling on Flett Footwork because is gonna emphasize the idea of using masteries based on the playstyle and the match instead of just " this one sclase only with AD so is bad on EVERY AP champs" and stuff like that. I think this is why they don't want another "fervor" anymore, you cant choose, is just for AD autoattackers and just that, and they are aming to do a rune system that is less "bounded" possible. ( in the limits, you can't make EVERY rune good on EVERY single champ) Said that....the rune is pretty underwhelming, OR, the other 2 are just way better, i dunno if F.Footwork is underpowered compared to EVERY other keystone or is just worst compared to the other 2 in the same tree, anyway, they have to do something about that. Or they increase the sustain side of it or the mobility/"safeness" side. I will prefer the second one because too much free sustain from a keystone will be pretty annoying in many cases (it was at the beginning with warlord).
: Runes Reforged PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread
I REALLY need some answers about Aery xD Aery seems to have NOT a fixed cooldown, but is based on her...him? It?!...whatever....going back to you, but, can you explain this better pls. I didn't used Aery actually but when i saw her ( i will suppose is a famale) being used it felt so strange. Se has not a cooldown, but you can't go back to her and pick her up like Orianna's ball when you want, so actually, she has a sort of internal cooldown, also she seems pretty slow sometimes, and it's....i dunno, it seems all so random, can i have some better description of how it works (im gonna try it out soon anayway... this patch is just taking years for some reasons xD). The ida of having this sort of companion and playing around it seems really cool (like, going back to where she is to pick her up and "refund the coodown" and stuff like that), but actually, it's just seems another way to add a fixed cooldown in a pretty cluncky way instead. I repeat, i just saw someone playing Aery (and like, some weeks ago, so...) so i'm here to have asnwers about how that keystone works.
: Runes Reforged PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread
I have a question/suggestion. IMO, when "TABbing" to see the enemies builds, keystones etc.. may be better if the secondary rune path's symbol was of the color of the tree. I explain, You have te Keystone that also rappresents the main tree you choose and the "logo" of the keystone is mostly colored with the color of the rune tree, the splashtree's symbols, instead, are ALL golden...kinda... xD. I find this (ok i also need to learn every symbol what trees rappresents in a way that i didn't have to think about that for 10 secs ) a bit confusionary at first watch, instead, having the symbol of the same colour of the rune page will help the "first impression", you TAB, you see a Blue keystone and a red symbol and you know IMMIDATELLY the keystone( i hope) and that is sorcery and domination. The only colours that are a bit similar are insipiration and sorcery, but you can see the differences pretty well even in that case. So i want to know if is possible at least to try out using a version fo the splashtree's symbol colored with the color of the rune tree when opening TAB. ( i really hope this last sentence is not too confusionary xD ) TY :)
: Ultimate hat: 15% cdr acts multiplicative with normal cdr. 100 sec cooldown with 40% cdr: 60 sec 100 sec cooldown with 40% cdr + ultimate hat (what you thought it would be): 45 sec 100 sec cooldown with 40% cdr + ultimate hat (what it actually is): 51 sec I think this should be indicated in the rune description.
Ah ok, i thought was "additive" and not multiplicative, this ruin some magic xD (and makes the rune way less appealing) Anyway, thanks for saying it :)
: Runes Reforged PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread
Those are just some of my opinions, feel free to explain me things and the reasons behind some decisions, because I (of course) talk without knowing reasons behind changes. TY, and sorry for eventual grammar mistakes! Overall i like the idea behind the new rune system, and i like a good amount of them, so even if i will talk about what i dislike/don't understand, i'm not against those changes at all. I also know is PBE(and preseason after it) and everything is subject to A LOT of changes. Runes that trigger when casting summoners: the one that gives tenacity after casting a summoner for example, that one is balanced around the fact that you trigger it just when you flash in/out, heal,ghost(with ghost is really cool) etc, but for a jungler with a blue/red smite you trigger it almost every fight, you go in, you smite someone and you have 10 secs (the entire fight mostly) tenacity! I think that smite will make runes that triggers/synergize with casting summoners difficult to balance because the cooldown difference form smite to every other summoner is really high(even if i play lots of jungle, so i'm happy xP , i have to point this out) Crazy/strange/ TOO niche runes, examples: 1.The one that change summoner spells, ok, i love strange and some crazy/funny/original designs in videogames( Kleptomancy is COOL AF), but this one....you are asking your balance/desing team to risk a nervous breakdown xD 2. The extech flash, THAT'S garbage(unless on 3 champs out of 130 xD), and is like Ornn upgrades: is a noobtrap! Everyone will be "OMG flashing with flash in cooldown, so cool!", but...is not! AT LEAST remove the cooldown when in fight, i think having to stand still like a dumb carrot for 2.5 secs is enough to balance it out if you use it WHILE teamfighting (making it stoppable by HARD CC), or just remove this rune and make something similar to the old (and beloved) distortion enchantment for boots 3. Explain me the one that kills minions with stacks and do stuff(minion dematerializer...is this the name?), or i didn't unerstand that one, or if i did i don't understand why in the world i should pick that thing... ( I asked to some friend of mine too and they are in my same situation about that rune xD). Anyway, I'm ok having some runes a bit more niche and runes that are OBVIOUSLY bad or not worth on some champs( you can't make everything good on everyone, and this is fine), but what I like about this runes rework is that you can try LOTS OF SETUPS on EVERY champ based on your playstyle, the team comp, the lane matchup etc..and this is amazing, so, making a rune that is worth on 2% of the pool is a bit against the entire idea behind this rework IMO. Base stats you take from Main tree and splash-tree combination may be cooler and more different: most of the time the main tree does it all, and ok, i understand that, but you can do better IMO, maybe even changing them slightly based on the Keystone (may be a nice way to balance keystones too). The rune that gives 5% more damage after a mobility spell/summoner should have an internal cooldown, i understand that the cooldown is given by the mobility spell itself in theory, but some champs like Vayne, Yasuo, Riven, KALISTA, are always dashing, so is like saying "Kalista has 5% more damage" with that rune. It's going to be difficult to balance for a similar reason of the "Smite thing" i talked about at the beginning. The Hexdrinker-like shield runes: In the "tanky" tree(forgot the name, the green one) we have a choice from MR, Armor, or both but later, here we have an anti AP burst (cool) and 2 other nice runes that are not the "specular way" of this one, why we don't have the same shield options against AD?! Also, an AD mid laner(ok, he will mostly go domination, but sorcery may be cool too, and you can still take it on splash) that goes with that and rush an hexdrinker has every 60 secs(90 for hexdrinker) a double anti magic shield, and AP assassins mostly rely on the full combo(with ulti) burst, that has a similar (mostly higher) cooldown, is gonna be SOOO annoying. My 2 favourite masteries are gone :'( : Insight and swiftness are gone, i wanna cry....Ok seriously, I think having a direct and easy way to have some summoner cooldown reduction will be nice( yeah...I'm a fan), we have a 5% by that cool rune that gives a little bit of everything, but maybe i just want it on summoners(and a bit more than 5%), and a cool 15% by the keystone that will be reworked and balanced every patch for 6 months :P , and IS A KEYSTONE, i want an easy and straight forward 15/10% summoner spell cooldown on my splash-tree :D Teancity instead has 2 nice runes actually, but i will miss a straight forward and permanent 10% tenacity and slow resistance on my splash, even if i think tenacity( or anti-CCs things in general) will just need some more love in game, from items, especially for damage dealers. Yeah, i saw the mini rework on Sterak's, but i wont talk about that here. Thanks for reading it! :) P.S. I really like the idea of giving Boots an active (Predator rune) with runes, you should experiment that more, is pretty cool! ...ok...you'r probably doing it xD, just wanna say i like the idea... :D
: Well, here's my feedback on the runes I've tested so far: Kleptomancy is amazing. Seriously. Mana pots are back <3. (Occasionally, but they are.) My only issue is on the time your inventory is full - there's not much benefit after that. I would like, if possible, a mini inventory somewhere that holds your Kleptomancy consumables. (Or make potions produced from it consume automatically if in combat.) On the other hand, Summon Aerie doesn't feel good. It's not really impactful as I thought it would be - granted, it can provide a lot of damage for the first 2 or three levels even, but it's too low on later levels (and stages) of the game. It also deals physical damage independently if you use AP or AD - which means it's horrid for its intended users because armor escales much, much higher than magic resist does; which means it mitigates more damage. The Shielding it provides isn't really noticeable unless you have really high amounts of AP (or AD?). The Tooltip on scoreboard (at least if an enemy is using it) also says it doesn't have AP or AD scaling on the damaging portion of Summon Aerie. (Shows up as 10 + 40 based on level (+0 AP and +0 AD) Glacial Augment is good enough, I think. Comet is somewhat good - At least it isn't good enough that everybody would use it. (It's more likely better for mages who have access to CC or Slows) Fleet Footwork works similarly to Warlord's Bloodlust so far so eh... nothing to say about it.
For Kleptomancy, what about giving Boots or one item at your choice (you choose one with no active of course) an active(only if full build) that consume the consumable that you gained?! Because the idea of having another "little invetory" just for that is cool, but you need keys to activate it ...or yes, just insta-use it like an helixir...less cool but easier xD
: From what I understand it has to be 3 separate instances of damage not unique. Unique is just bad wording that I hope they change so for an example 3 auto attacks would proc it but I am pretty sure dot effects only count as 1 instance so something like Cass miasma would only count as one instance of damage. Not sure if this helps but that's just what I have figured out
Yeah, the word unique is a bit wrong, because you can proc it with the same damage just in 3 different instances ,3 aa can proc that but one Ahri's Q doesn't count as 2 istances but just one...something like this :D
: I tried taking Perxie/Aery on Fizz for my first time testing the runes. Typically after Aery helped about 25-29 times, it would disappear entirely and I would no longer gain any benefits from the rune. I'm not sure how this triggers but I suspect it has something to do with Playful/Trickster? Feedback: I was really looking forward to something like my favorite keystone, Deathfire Touch. I'm a massive damage over time fan, and Scorch is absolutely no replacement. That rune is an absolute joke. No scaling, ludicrous cooldown for something that deals an additional 10 damage at most in the early game, and at endgame a couple of minion attacks will contribute more. there's absolutely no reason to take this. Please add some scaling to it so that it can benefit on-hit builds and consider making it a DoT effect like Deathfire was. The cooldown is fine as long as the effect is strong enough to be worth existing.
I see Scorch more as a "Fresh Blood"( is this the right name?! The mastery that make your first AA on a champ stronger) replacement than a deathfire touch one, good for the early(really early) game poke and tha'ts it. Is not a keystone so is fine that doesen't have a big impact and i like that rune, but i think a deathfire touch substitute would be nice for some champs (even if i almost never play champs that use DT beside some Rumble)
: she honestly doesnt need the heal because of the fact that if you have literally one lifesteal item as vayne you auto 3 times and are full health
Yes, as you can see my first 2 points were about just REMOVING that free random sustain, the third was to make that, if theyREALLY want it to be implemented, more balanced, and EASY TO BALANCE. 20%of enemy HP is too random too, even for the vayne player, you kill the tank, you are actually full health from almost dead, you kill the enemy carry, you barelly see the heal(ok, maybe not barelly, but the difference of impact get by the heal is massive from a squishy to a full tank)...also, i dunno, maybe they want to make this so Vayne can skip the lifesteal item and sustain through kills?! But no one is going to do that, you will still have lifesteal, AND now that sustain too. It's just a random buff IMO xD They think that the nerf on the Q is too hard to be compensated by the buff on the W, and probably is true, but THIS is NOT the right way to compensate!
Rioter Comments
: Midseason Durability Feedback
OVERALL, i like the majority of the changes( relativelly to tanks/bruisers), but i have some thoughts on the ADC role. (I'm not an ADC main, so i'm here to be fair and not to cry about my role) You changed GA and Banshee, and i like both but i have some worries coming from the GA changes in particular. The ADC role is actually a meme, and ok, is an hyperbole, but there are some real reasons if it's becoming a meme and you can't say is not true, so let's start with the worries xD. Will be pretty long and i'm gonna do LOOTS of grammar mistake probably :D 1. What if i actually want a Banshee (the old one) on mye ADC?! Some health, good magic resist and the nice passive(the main reason was used as a last defensive item on ADCs)...i go for SpiritVisage?! :\ 2. What i think the ADC role is lacking are items that cover what Zhonya's, the old Abyssal (and new banshee) Malmortius (ok that's viable but i will explain better what i mean) Edge of night( viable in some lethality builds that i don't see almost anymore on ADCs) are covering on mages/assassin builds. So, items that if you go for them instead of the core big damage/att.speed item you don't feel " OMG i'm so behind i rushed hexdrinker on Vayne because the enemy Karma "support" is demolishing me (sometimes it happens xD ) i will reach my powerspike too late".People start building defensive items as a 4th item (not counting boots), sometimes as a last item because when you are ready to go with the defensive item you relize you do no damage on the damn Maokai so you have to go for the last whisper and you still procrastinate the GA/Banshee/Malmortius. When i play mid with a mage, for example, against a Zed (unless i'm stomping) i can go for a zhonya's rush (maybe with double doran for the mana regen because i'm not gonna rush my mana item) and i don't feel "OMG i'm so behind with this rush", yeah i feel less strong, i have to spam less, i have less AP than a Morello(and less CDR), so i have to play less aggressive, but i still do something and i'm not worthless, there are NO items like that for ADC, and the new GA is NOT changing anything, is even worst, now you have an item to defend yourself from AD but is pointless against AP, so instead of having AT LEAST a decent "multitasking" last item you have a decent last item against AD and nothing more, and you actually can't lose 2 slot on an ADC build to build both GA and Malmortius. AP champs instead have a decent ammount of choices so i'm not even worried we can't go for a GA as a last item on a mage anymore because i almost never did and we can chose from a lot of "hybrid" (in the meaning that gives both damage and defensive/utility statistics) items ( New banshee, still new Abyssal on some battle mages like Swain and Vlad, protobelt, RoA, the "GLP stuff freeze-gun", Zhonya's, Lyandry's, Rylay's), ADCs have Malmortius but mostly 4th or 5th(still not counting boots) item, Black Cleaver on some ADC in some builds,and...Sterak? But is good if you have at least another item that gives you health( decent with trinity or BC, both almost never used on the majority of ADCs) unless is mèh... and all of those are still viabale near the end of the build and mostly you can build just ONE of those( so if you have Malmortius and they have a Riven top and a LB mid the Riven will metls you down like you have no defensive items). Also the new GA, if pretty good will be a pain for AD assassin because will be a second/third item. The AD assassins roam bot, kills you, you don't really die, and is too early in the game to dive again and kill you again. If not THAT good will be pointless early game and just worst compared to the actual one when reached late game (unless enemy team has no decent AP damage sources). My suggestions: 1.remove the "revive" (yeah, i said that) from the GA, and make the GA (change name) an "anti AD Mercurial Scimitar" (maybe don't nerf it too to the ground because "everyone picks MS on ADC"...yeah, because they don't wanna die xD), so more AD and some lifesteal. 2.Bring GA to older version (aaaaand will be good on tanks again, that's a problem) and make an item similar to what i said before, that sorta of lifesteal item with armor. 3.Stop nerfing every ADC build that is not a "galass cannon late game crit-based hypercarry build" xD, i know that every type of more utility/safe builds when comes out in 90% of the cases start dominating the scene....but...there are some reasons if this happens xD I'm not asking for an enormous ammount of items that can be rushed and still gives you decent statistics while giving you defense, but at least some items that can be builded 3th (that is mostly the lifesteal item) and may save you from a Zed with a Youmuu's and a serrate dirk that oneshots you with a basic combo withou ulti xD Maybe this whole comment is useless because is in the designated design of ADC to be all glass cannons with almost no defensive items avable, in that case i will shut up on this topic for the rest fo my life xD just need to know. (and let it know to the millions of people out there too so they will stop with the damn memes xD ...maybe... ) P.S. I have NOTHING against glass cannons xD, I just would prefer to have the possibility to choose(in the limits of being an ADC and not a bruiser, obviously). P.P.S. Yeah i know we are near a tank rework and not an ADC rework, but he is asking feedback on the defensive items and i just wante to know if they have some plans for the ADC role. If the comment sounds a bit aggressive i'm sorry, i'm actually not upsetted, just a bit worried.
: Xayah's kit seems really boring build-wise. She doesn't have the same options a lot of other adcs have, she's forced into a pure crit build. At best she could get a Botrk. Rakan's is better and has some interesting intricacies with how AP, CDR, and AS improve his tankiness through his Passive and his Q's heal. Making him as tanky as possible doesn't just boil down to tank stats, you'd also want items like Nashor's Tooth for example to increase your sustain in a fight. This is diminished somewhat by him being a support with 4+ predetermined items in his build, but it's intriguing. Xayah's VO is also a little boring. Some of it is writing, some of it is the deadpan delivery. Maybe lore beyond being a murderous bird person will help, but y'know. Otherwise, I think Xayah and Rakan are an interesting pair of champions.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazedMLC,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=iZB4AK4J,comment-id=0021,timestamp=2017-04-06T07:50:27.185+0000) > > Xayah&#x27;s kit seems really boring build-wise. She doesn&#x27;t have the same options a lot of other adcs have, she&#x27;s forced into a pure crit build. At best she could get a Botrk. > Rakan&#x27;s is better and has some interesting intricacies with how AP, CDR, and AS improve his tankiness through his Passive and his Q&#x27;s heal. Making him as tanky as possible doesn&#x27;t just boil down to tank stats, you&#x27;d also want items like Nashor&#x27;s Tooth for example to increase your sustain in a fight. This is diminished somewhat by him being a support with 4+ predetermined items in his build, but it&#x27;s intriguing. > > Xayah&#x27;s VO is also a little boring. Some of it is writing, some of it is the deadpan delivery. Maybe lore beyond being a murderous bird person will help, but y&#x27;know. > > Otherwise, I think Xayah and Rakan are an interesting pair of champions. I don't liked the fact her E is stronger when building crit. This thing that even if the 90% of the community (pro players too) are asking for a removal of crits and they are still making a LOT of spells revolving around crit items is getting REALLY boring. I'm ok with having crits in game, but making spell that can crit and spell that have more damage based on crit over and over instead of trying to reduce them is just a bad (and boring) idea. The E "scaling" with crit chance is just like saying " you HAVE to build crit like the 90% of the ADCs even if it seems a caster-like kit"...just why?! Incrase the AD scaling and remove that thing c'mon, i don't want to build every ADC in the same way( the "IE is core on everyone" thing is getting SO boring)... God bless Ezreal xD I don't know if they are thinkng like " Lethalithy builds are busted so reduce the AD scaling and make the spells revolve aroun crit that are more expensive so everyone is a late game hypercarry and is not worth building lethality"...if that's the problem...nerf Lethality xD and leave everyone free to build how the hell he wants. EDIT: Anyway, her kit is nice(nothing special and extremelly exciting like was Kalista for example, but is nice), and Rakan kit is pretty cool( i fear will be hard to balance because is the "Lee Sin of supports" but is cool).
Rioter Comments
: I agree, I don't think this is the right way to buff Jinx. Jinx is an auto attack based hypercarry, not a caster based ADC. I think Jinx is in need of a buff, but I think this is counter intuitive to her natural play style and poses natural game play issues. I am in agreement that the RNG element is one of the worst things about it. It never feels good having to rely on crit RNG on auto attacks, but at least you attack so often that the RNG tends to balance out in a way that you will get the expected amount of damage over a long fight. With this mechanic, it basically becomes a dice roll. You either get the crit and the kill, or you don't get the crit and they live. It provides a distinct lack of clarity to both the Jinx player and her opponent, because the damage is going to swing widely between 'you live' and 'you die'. There should be less RNG based mechanics in this game, not more of them. Not to mention, this is just going to encourage Jinx to stay at her maximum Zap range (around 1000) out of the fight poking and not really engaging with her enemies. Isn't this the same reason Jhin has been nerfed several times? In order to make it so he can't just rely on W and Ult to be useful and has to commit to an engage? Jinx becoming more of a skillshot poke bot isn't how she was intended to be played. How about instead, a buff to her minigun? Every since the attack speed steroid on it was effectively neutered until like level 14 or so back in Season 5, it's not felt rewarding to use compared to rockets in most situations. Buffing minigun will be much healthier than this change. Minigun is a much shorter range, providing opponents with better ways to abuse Jinx. Similarly, Jinx should be rewarded for giving up her natural safety with rockets and encouraged to make the swap more often. Gun switching is core to Jinx's playstyle, but minigun has been far less valued than rockets ever since those changes in S5. At the very least, if this buff is to go through, Zap's indicators should be changed to actually match the hitbox. It's a wider skillshot than it actually displays, and if it's going to go live as a nuke button, opponents should be better aware of its range.
I 100% agree on your analysis and opinions...i'm just confused about how Riot balance team didn't get same conclusion as us( me, you, and A LOT of other people from what i saw on this forum)[probably i fkd up some grammar in this sentence xD]. I understand is PBE so they just try some changes, but this one is just bad, you don't even have to try it to know that xD
: They would need to lower the base damage and then it be fine
Just don't touch it no?! If you have to make an unreliable( is based on the RNG of the crits) buff, that can be useless if you don't crit and busted as fk if you crit and then have to nerf the base damage for that reason...just wtf?! Just don't do it xD
: Warlord's Bloodlust
Giving to anyone a Yasuo passive is probably not a good idea xD EDIT: Aynyway, i understand your point, and i appreciate that you are trying to make that more appling on marksman and less on fighters, but that idea is a bit too risky, just the first ADC getting a lead and 50% crit chance will have a garanteed crit every time WL is stacked xD At the same time, this is a better idea than riot's one giving Yasuo an almost 100% total AD lifesteal on WL every time(he alwasy crits) xD
: ABOUT THE RECENT LUX BUFFS...
Thi patch is cool because they are changing the right champs/spells( so they are aware of the problems and are trying to fix them, and it's nice), but is bad because they are mostly doing it in the wrong way xD I prefer your suggestions than the ult CD refund.
Rioter Comments
: Ehhh not sure if it's really a buff... They lowered base damage and ad ration on his Q. To compensate this, they increased the damage of two Q's hitting the same target, which is great, since it requires a lot more skill to maximize his damage output. Also they lowered the base damage of his ult while slightly increasing the % damage. Overall it seems like they want to seperate good Zed players from the best, so for most players this is a nerf...
About the shrunken i'm 100% ok with the changes. Like a weak ago i said to a friend of mine( a Zed player, not main, but he likes him) "IMO they should nerf the damage from shurikens, but increase the damage if got hit by more then one shrunken, so is more rewarding if you play really good but less if you just spam Q over and over", so, when i saw those changes i was, obviously, completely ok. For the ult, like this friend of mine said to me today "the ult damage if you do no damage after marking the enemy is really low even nowadays, so if you ult then you do nothing is still almost completely wasted", so i think this is going to be more a buff for good players, or just an "even" change for players that are just decent (a nerf if you are really bad with Zed xD ), because in every cases if you ult you HAVE TO HIT YOUR NEMY to make the ult worth, unless he is really low health and you just ult then back and he dies, but just throw him a shrunken in that case or auto him, the scaling are the same, no one use the ult for the base damage, it's a complete waste :D Anyway i'm quite ok with the changes overall and the idea behind them! :)
: Yeah and Veigar has a a 150% AP ratio scaling point and click nuke on a less then 50 second cooldown with 45% CDR whats your point?
Is not AOE and needs you to be low healt to reach that scaling....and is OP anyway xD Anyway I said "is just me but reading it etc..." not "every scaling more than 120% AP is OP", i just wanted to say that as a FIRST IMPRESSION reading a so high scaling gives to me that feeling, after that, knowing the way how is used that spell probably will change my mind, Vel' has a 125% but is channeled, Veigar needs you to be low(still too strong IIMO), Kata can be interrupted, Ekko needs to position the "ghost" properly etc.. i'm not saying "is OP because the scaling is too high and i give no fks about the way the spell is used and designed". Also that was a "funny" note at the end of the post, just for saying, the main point is that the 50 damage from the ult are not going to change so much Tank Ekko, so why doing this, if you nerf the base stats you have to buff the scaling, and MAYBE can be risky for the balance and healthyness of the spell (and so of the champ), like i said, just don't touch what is not REALLY necessary because touching statistics(especially if you have to buff something else back to compensate) is always risky, and when you start to work on so high scalings, on spells like that one, is even more risky. P.S. Probably everything is going to be ok, the changes will be quite even for AP Ekko, and Tank Ekko will get a nerf and everyone will be happy, i just wanted to say my opinion and what COULD go wrong.
: Whats your actually point ? He need 200AP to get same power on Q, while 250AP on R. Both are nerf to AP Ekko's early-to-mid game. Why you think the Q need some buff change but R is too powerful?
I'm sorry, my english is quite mèh so i can't express myself properly :\ I wanted to say that, like you said, AP Ekko get a nerf until he reach 200 AP, and you need a couple of item to do this ( like Morello + Lich bane + Runes, but is just an example), until you get those stats your Q is nerfed, but when you get more AP you get just a small buff, also the Q outgoing damage is not so strong, so having a little late game buff is ok. The ulti instead when you reach late game becomes INSANE with this buff, with a full build(and so a Rabadon) the damage can be really REALLY HIGH, even right now does a lot of damage. Moreover, they HAVE to overtune the AP scaling to compensate a nerf that is almost useless for tank Ekko. Just leave the spell as it is, wait about Q changes, and if is not enough nerf the base damage/slow of the passive or the % healt regeneration from the ult. They are really risking to overtune his scalings on spells to nerf tank Ekko right now. They probably have to do this, but at least do it on the right side, 50 AOE damage every 60 seconds(more ore less) are not the main problem about Tank Ekko. Just don't touch what is not strictly necessary, and at the same time hit what IS strictly necessary. Anyway, I really don't like spells with more then 100-120% AP scaling, unless are over time damage that you can escape/interrupt(kata for example) or need to be channeled. Maybe is just me but just reading on a spell 1.5 Ap scaling gives to me a feeling like " WTF? How something like that can be fair?! " xD
Rioter Comments
: Aurelion Sol is nerfed to much
I have to be honest, his win rate is pretty high (i'm talking from Plat 5 to Challenjour), and maybe he deserves a nerf, the point is that those are bad nerfs. The W cool down especially, should be ok if when your stars get disabled by some CC while your W is active, when the CC is gone the stars are back with the W still activated. The passive damage is really high and in general is a quite obnoxious mechanic,i played him, and lots of time is like" if you can all in me i'm dead, if you can't you will die trying to escape my outer range in vain", especially with Rylay. At the same time, Sol is a champ that is EXTREMELLY clunky and needs lots of quality of life changes, but he is quite strong thanks to the statistics, the items, the meta and the low play rate nowadays, so they are not gonna make those changes. Maybe in the future they will nerf the stats, then he will be pretty bad, and then they will make those changes. Examples are, the Q that can't be double tapped, the E stacks that start to grow up AFTER the spell is out of cool down, just make them stake always,you simply can't use the spell, etc... But if they will do those changes actually, he will be probably too strong, so they HAVE to nerf him, just, don't nerf cooldowns or stuff that gives him some more things to do/better "quality of life". P.S. I have NO idea what they can do because his kit revolves completely on the passive and i think is the part that gives more problems... P.P.S. Why Galio has a retarded win rate (similar to Malz) as a top laner and they don't care at all?!?! O.o
: Her passive doesn't feel like a significant part of her kit. It only ever shows up when you're traveling and it feels a bit awkward to keep getting on and off the board while your moving to another wall. edit: I might as well post my thread. Yay for gloryhoring. http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/Tg4c8ZMV-feedback-on-taliyah
I really love her kit but i have to agree on this :D Also i think that when you use the Q on the worked ground having a refund on the cooldown too would be nice because maybe you are fighting/kiting, you use the Q, and you just stepped on a worked ground unintentionally and you end using a skill with 1/5 of the real potential, at 1/2 of the mana cost ok, BUT you have to wait the ENTIRE cooldown to shoot the next, it's quite frustrating sometimes. (overall, i'm ok with the "nerfed Q on worked grounds" mechanic) Last issue, the ult, i feel it's afflicted by the same problem of the Bard's one. You max it JUST to reduce the cool down. Is cool having a lower cooldown because the ult is really useful, but mathematically is worth ONLY if you use the ult between the cooldown difference from one level to the other. Example, cuz my english sucks and i can't express myself properly xD ---> If the ult has 100 sec cooldown at level 1, and you give to the ult another point and it goes to 80 secs at level 2, that point is worth if you use the ult AT LEAST before 20 sec after it is off cooldown, or is just like having it at level 1. (this is why LOTS of ult like this have some passives, like Tham's one for example, that scales maxing the spell)
: Her Q has an awesome visual and feels impactful when you manage to hit all 5. I kind of wish using her Q on worked ground would refund some of the cooldown as well because using it by accident on worked ground feels really punishing early on and I feel like the would up her laning phase a bit. Also removing the damage reduction on multiple strikes on minions would help her farm a lot easier as she has to blow all her abilities to wave clear quickly. Her W still felt a bit clunky when I last played her but I also didn't realize it was a two cast button until I read the forums so I feel like intuitively it should cast more like victor E but I do like that it is a two button cast so maybe that should be made more clear? I feel like her E could use a bit more spice to it like a slow but it already feels a lot like Ziggs E so maybe you could differentiate the two skills more. I feel like her ult could be a bit stronger and I wish taking damage didn't cancel your surf. The cooldown is already decently long so I don't see why she shouldn't be able to use it as an escape (though hard cc should still stop her). I really enjoy that you can click which side of the wall to jump off as it gives you another decision to decide in addition to deciding to use your ult/where to aim it, etc.
I agree on the part about the Q, i'm ok with having the "nerfed Q" on working grounds to rebalance the whole skill, but at least give to it a refund to the cooldown too, because like this if you use the Q and you just step on the worked ground unintentionally you feel REALLY frustrated by having just shouted a skill with 1/5 of the real potential AND having to wait the entire cool down to try using the "standard" spell.
: Not having solo queue just shows a flagrant disregard for the integrity of ranked. You can't even compare players of the same ranking because every queue configuration is mixed into a single ranking despite reflecting quite different skills.
I play solo and some times duo with a friend, and when you have the 3/4 man premade in your team(and so in enemy team too)....man, if they are better then the other group of premeds you win if they suck you lose, unless your skills are HIGLY higher then then the elo you are, but HIGLY (not like "i'm in silver 5 and i deserve Gold", because a Gold can't carry 4 people taking wrong decision all together and throwing at Baron like bosses, i don't care what people say, YOU CANT, if they throw they throw). I want to say that i found LOTS of 3 man premeds, and a decent amount of 4, i also admit that sometimes they carried me, ok, but THIS IS NOT how it's suppose to work, just that! P.S. I think this is not related with PBE anymore, anyway :D
: The (numerical) values of the Infernal, Mountain and ocean drake REALLY seem to high
Nowdays if you ask yourself "tower or drake" the answer is always Tower(if you can do both easily in the same way). They want to make Drake appealing as Towers even if you are not going for the "fifth drake strat". But they risk to make SOME drakes too strong, like you said, when drake was stronger 75% of the teams with first drake were winning games. Those are randomly spawn, so the risk is some of them are worth as a tower, depends on your strats and what you prefer, but maybe, there is one of two of them that are SO good that everyone want them no matter what, and probably the team with that drake buff is going to win. I'm not enough good as League to say WICH ONE is going to be THAT DRAKE, but i played League enough to know that PROBABLY this is going to happen.
: Quicksilver Sash is to remove it as a "one stop shop" item, toning back its power and moving it towards what it was intended for which is CC removal, they can always nerf Zed in the future and makes it easier to nerf him. Boots I am pretty sure it is to remove them from being a mandatory purchase and try to open up other options to buy, so removing the enchantments should help with that making boots feel less of a requirement to buy.
About the first i was thinking something like that too,but i just wanted some answers by Rioters (that i will never have probably). On the second point...boots are something that are a must buy in 80% of the scenario on every champ, and i'm completely ok with that, i see NO ONE from my bronze friends to high elo players saying "boots are mandatory, that sucks" because boots ARE MADE to be mandatory in almost every game. Also, even if what you said is true(it could be, every opinion matters and i can't know what is right and what is wrong), why they didn't say that instead of saying "we remove enchants because alacrity is too good" O.o ?! I just want to know what makes Riots designers taking a decision like that only for ONE enchant a bit overpowered. Also, they just made a champ with a passive that allows her to build no boots, and this is an important and distinguishing part of her kit. xD
: Griveous wounds, reverted.
Soraka is (almost) the only support i play, and i enjoy her( i didn't believe that too xD, for someone that doesn't play support enjoying playing the PURE HEALER support of LoLis not so common probably :D ), she is actually the second best support overall(first is Trundle if i'm not wrong, or at least, was in last patch, they have to re-calculate datas for the 9.8), and the support with highest win rate, so maybe changing GW is the best way to give her a good and reliable counterplay, without having to nerf her every couple of patches. If she get hit too hard they can buff her in the future ;) Edit: Okay,i didn't saw the nerfs...that make no much sense, you make an indirect (but quite good) nerf on Soraka, and then you also NERF her directly? They should just wait to see if the changes on GW are enough, anyway, maybe they are testing some hard changes and they are going to revert some of those , so we will see ;)
Rioter Comments
: MYMU Annie, Fiddle, Veigar Discussion
Big edit: I edited the whole message to make it more clear then before xD I play Annie, and i really like to play her, and i want to add some of my thoughts :D First of all, i really like those changes overall =D I thought they was going to add a little delay on the ult(like 0.75 sec), instead they nerfed the damage of Tibbers summoning, reducing the strength of her all in burst combo to compensate the buff to Tibbers after being summoned. I think this is a nice idea too, surely will change less the feeling and the playstyle of Annie compared to adding a delay on the ult. The changes overall, are going to reward more good annie players that have some nice micro-management of Tibbers and a good knowledge of cooldowns and "kiting"(like Annie Bot, for example), and are a little less rewarding on players that are quite straight forward on the flash all-in combo and nothing more, but still leave Annie an easy to learn champ for beginners. What i should change is, the AP scaling on the summoning should be nerfed a little more, to like 60%from 65%, i'm ok with some nerfs to the "haveyouseenmybeartibbersburstcomboofdoom", and maybe, nerfing/removing the enrage after being summoned, because i really fear this is going to compensate the burst you nerfed, from the summoning damages and from the Tibbers aura, with some rude enraged Tibbers punches in the face while you are stunned. xD P.S. My English is pretty bad, i'm sorry :'( Edit: Also, removing/nerfing the enrage on summoning will probably reward using Tibbers not for the stun, but using him and then stun the enemy immediately after with another spells, for making Tibbers enrage, this should open some more opportunity/combos and decision making skills, you can stun with Tibbers for a secured big AOE stun, or maybe you should try doing a more risky, but more rewarding ,play. Ah, i forgot, can you make Tibbers going on all 4 paws when he has the move speed buff when enraged?! Is quite clunky to see him going so fast on 2"legs" xD
: Annie changes overtuned
I thought they was going to add a cast time(like 0.75 sec) to tibbers(yous till have a point and click stun and an AOE with almost no cast time on Q and W if you want a flash stun), giving her some windows to improve her utility and some more mechanics(actually she is so good at doing THAT ONE thing, the burst combo, that you can't give her more utility/mechancis or you will overtune the kit), anyway, they reduce quite a bit the damage of the summoning, so her burst combo is less bursty. Dunno if is enough nerfed, and if is enough in general without a delay on the ult, but it's quite fine, they removed some power from the standard combo to empower Tibbers AFTER being casted. Also this will reward good Annie players that have some nice micro management of Tibbers and a bit less players that knows only the standard "flash Tibbers and then mash my keyboard on the other spells". Edit: The only think i don't like so much is the fact of having Tibbers enraged after being summoned in every cases, they removed some burst from the combo, but having Tibbers insta-enraged will compensate the burst, because with that insane att. speed buff he will burst you down immediately, autoing you while you are stunned, without much micro-management and decision making needed. Imo they should remove or halving the enrage on summoning.
: I would like to add {{summoner:1}} is still a spell to take in lane vs Annie. Also range is a big thing on here and she is very predictable so there is some counter play just not a lot.
Yes i agree, but the idea of a champ a little outdate is still here, like WW ult and stuff like that. What i wanted to say is that, if they give Annie a delay on the ult she will less strong in what she is strong(and quite monodimensional) right now, but it makes room to give her more Mechanics and utility. First idea coming to my mind ( random first idea i just had) was to make Tibbers allowed to mimic not only the Shield but the W too, not like a Zed shadow, but in front of him in the direction he is facing, also it could stun if Annie has the 4th stack(the visual effects is on Tibbers too because will suck to don't know if Tibbers can stun you because Annie is out of your screen), reducing the damage of tiber's W(and maybe Annie's W too) or simply reducing it if someone got hitted by both Ws, should be quite easy to balance.This will give more utility and zoning potential, and will reward players with some good micro-management on Tibbers(like Annie Bot and other good Annie players), also the Kit will not be too overloaded because she will be less strong at "flashing and stunning 4 people instantly and bursting a couple of them" so it hopens some possibility on others sides, removing the idea of an outdated and monodimensional champ, even if in general she will be quite similar and still an easy to learn champ (in a 1v1 you flash W or Q to stun and then Tibbbers and the oneshot combo still there). Is only an example to explain what i wanted to say :D Edit: i play Annie, last season i played 8 of 10 placement with her and i won 7 of them, so i'm not an "Annie hater" but i should like to play an Annie similar to the one i just proposed (probably Rioters will have better ideas than me xD ) and also this is going to remove some general problems.
: Yeah - it's highly likely that if anything causes the item to fail - it will be Annie interactions. It's a fairly dangerous and pretty experimental change overall.
Is possible to give her a LITTLE delay on the ult?! Like she throws her little peluche and when the peluche falls on the ground BOOM Tibbers appears (like 0.5/0.75 secs of delay, just enough to use a barrier or flashing away, a minimal counterplay ). Making this change will MAYBE give more room on her to makes some buffs or items that fit on her without the classic "omg Annie so OP no counter play", also this will give more healthiness to the game and to her playstyle. You still can stun with Q or W, but you need to be near and probably is not so easy to stun 4 people with a W to make them standing still waiting for the Tibbers, but if you manage to do something like this...you feel PRO xD Is just a question/opinion, i'm here to have some answers, nothing more! :) And sorry for some eventually grammar mistakes :D
: About the Grasp of the Undiying change....
The possibility to hit minions for 4 sec then hit the enemy and run away, or just beginning the fight with the first auto that procs the Grasp, doing a favorable thread thanks to this and backing to farm waiting other 4 seconds, was a bit too strong and annoying, and i'm ok with the idea behind this nerf. Now then, they have to retune, like you said, the masteries around this change, like they did on Fervor, they removed the stacking on non champs but they also reduced the time you get full stacks. IMO, only giving the keystone 3 sec should be a good rebalance, you have to stay AT LEAST 3 sec fighting the enemy, or just under his poke, to have the grasp ready. Is not immediate anymore, also 3 sec means using it more during a prolonged fight but thanks to the actual nerf remove the "proc and run" playstyle that is the main problem.
: [Planned - 6.9] Mana x MP/5 x AP x MR Item Pass [Updated - 4/11/2016]
I like those changes a lot, i'm quite happy in general, and the rocket belt...OMG, i dreamed that item since season 4(and i started playing some couple of days before Jinx release xD so...) The negative things, for me, are...not so much, but one in particular. The mana regen is GONE for everyone unless a little pool of "Athene users". I know is on purpose, but i really don't like, or at least, not on every champ, the "no mana regen big mana pool" way of building. On some mages is good, on others sometime is quite méh, also i find this strong early to mid game, but can be a problem in late game, for a prolonged siege, or if, in general, you use lots of spell without backing to base, because you have a big mana pool that regenerate really slowly when gone. Also having a big mana pool(and no regeneration) will make the "i don't remember the name masteries" that regen %missing mana quite strong(more mana you have, more is the %) an maybe a bit too mandatory, also (but this is a balance problem that you are going to fix easily) the Archangel staff will be quite strong because lots of items will give flat mana, and all are viable even if you have another mana item(and that's cool, but maybe having all mages with a huge mana pool will make archangel a little too strong late game). Probably those are just my "bronzy" opinions, and i'm here to have some answers by people(and maybe Rioters) that knows the game better than me :D... and sorry for my english, like always :D
: Kayle's nerf
I don't think this nerf will hurt her 1v1 potential and HER damage output SO high, most of her damage is AP, ok, some crit from hurricane and some AD from the Guinsoo, but you still do more AP damage, i think is more to reduce the utility she gives to the team simply autoattaccking, she reduces both MR and Armor increasing a LOT the damage of your entire team(even ADC so) on all the enemies she hits. Anyway this PBE cycle just began, we will see :)
: PBE Balance Change Discussion
I like every changes unless for the Zed changes, even if i'm ok with nerfing Zed 100%! What i want to say is, ok the cool down (even if, for how much i hate zed, 22 sec level 1 is really high, maybe 20 was enough), what i don't like is the nerf to the bonus AD increasing on the W. Zed is too strong in lane phase, the W passive is a scaling based on BONUS AD(so, is good when you have a decent amount of AD items), and you max it last, and at level 1 the nerf is really little, that's a late game scaling ability, Zed's problems are early-middle. His shuriken and his E probably deserve a nerf way more. Also, he was played in competitive tanky, when a champ is played tanky even if is an assassin means dat he offers or a good amount of utility(Ekko for example) or his base damage are REALLY high( Ekko is a bit in this category too, i know). Zed's utility is really low, this means that his base damages are too high probably. Ok, going tanky with titanic before the nerf was quite good almost on everyone, i had to admit it, but you will understand the general point, i hope...even with this english xD
: I don't understand, he has a winrate of 50%, and this just in midlane, with a 3%pickrate and a banrate which is quite high just for the fact he is a new champion, so someone could still be annoyed by facing him, not to count he is going to be banned in ranked to don't let teammates use him. I have no words for how nonsense this change is, when the playerbase still hasn't more then 5 games on him. Why release a champion to gut him for no reason right after? Ekko was broken af, and we had to ban him for a long time because" you wanted to study how things were going" tahm had a low winrate just because it was lowered by people trolling with him, but when properly used he was scary, and you buffed him 3 times in a row, making him become permaban.Sol is fine, with a so-so averageperformance for now, and you Nerf him to the ground?
In reality Ekko was never OP on live servers, unless a bit as a tanky jungler, if you remember his AP build was BUFFED and the tanky build nerfed in the same patch because tank was too good and as a mid lane assassin too bad xD. Tham was obviously OP, and they buffed him a lot (like THE DAMAGE BASED ON MAX EALTH... why?!) because people was trolling/failing to use his W and ult with allies, after like less then 2 months he was permaban and still now is see him banned decently often in ranked(or normal drafts). Anyway, Sol win rate should be a little higher soon because when a champ is just released people play him worst then a champ that is on live from a lot of time, or should be worst because maybe people simply have to learn how to counter him, so i don't think taking win rate is the best way to say if he is balanced or not. Anyway is not something people is complaining so much (unlike releases like Bard, because was too bad, or Yasuo, because was...oh god Yasuo at release....oh God...) so IMO they should wait a little more, anyway, is PBE, so if they see that things are going better they should revert the changes before patch goes live. Talking about the changes, the Q has 0.1 more at level 1...ok that's ridiculous to be called buff, and 0.5 less on level 5, i'm not so upsetted about this change because he can make a really large AOE stun and 1.5 sec still a good stun.Even the slow nerf on the ult, by himself is not SO bad(maybe at level 1 the slow is a little to low). The problem is that if you add those 2 nerfs together he is going to be pretty weak against lot of match ups, especially because after shooted the Q and the ult, if you can go back to his "blind spot" where stars can't hit you(so, melee) he is useless, and Q has 10 seconds cooldown, and in his build cooldown is not so core. Those changes can be good if they make the Q ISTANT "re-castable" (why Anivia, than has a wall, an AOE slow when she wants, and no real blind spots can do this, and Sol that has nothing more then Q and ult to protect himself can't ?! Is like having Nami's bubble that can't stun in the first 10% of his range.) and they lower a bit ult cooldown at lower levels. I don't think those nerfs are 100% bad, i even think they should be good, but Sol need's some quality of life changes from the beginning, probably that's why those nerfs seems something completely wrong and unnecessary to most of the players. I want to say that i'm not a Sol lover salty for changes, i try to be fair and say what I THINK, (so those are MY OPINIONS, nothing more, and i can change opinion in the future, especially about a champ released some days ago). And i want to apologize for my english. xD
: They have recently removed incomplete Cassiopeia from PBE, they will probably change some of the values.
Yes, i know, my feedback was for what was actually on the PBE. :D
: yes that is true on the nerfed flat damage compared to live. -5/10/15/20/25 and yet +1% = Way more then that. At lvl 1 1% of a ADC is ~6-8 hps at lvl 18 1% is 18-25 so if you get the stun off (almost 100% of the time) thats an extra 36-50 damage compared to -25
Is made to make her less oppressive early (you max Q first, and at level 5 now has 25 less damage, and on a low cool down spell means a lot), but without making her damage completely gone when you reach late game and people start to builds( or simply taking it per level) armor and healt, plus the reasons AzErTyV8 just explained. I find this nerf well made. :D Also i didn't understand your math, you said that at level 18 1% of an ADC healt is 18 to 25...so, if you lose 25 damage, and at level 18 that 1% healt is 25, at level 18, against a squishy target you are going to do the same damage no?! You have 25 less flat, but you take 25 more from the 1% healt they added... it seems you counted the nerf only on the first hit, and the buff on both hits, lol. xD
: They haven't fixed the E cd yet, it was intended to be lower.
It's intended to be 1 sec , but the damage is really low on non-poisoned enemies, so if you want to spam it on someone that is not poisoned you need a lot of mana and time to do a decent amount of damage. ;)
: Won't be done for the sake of clarity.
Exactly , the "snowflake" effect is the default effect for slowed units, so they are not gonna change it, i think. :D
Rioter Comments
: Kindred Sprint Animation
OK, this really doesn't belong to the PBE, post it on live boards ;) Anyway, YES, Kindred sprint animation is SO awful and ridiculous, i laugh every time, is soooo clunky x'D
: Hey guys. There's been *a lot* of comments on the subreddit but most don't own accounts on PBE in order to participate. I'll try to summarize the main points of what's on their minds. I guess the primary concern are not the nerfs, per se, but the fact that they come together. We're okay with the idea of reducing nearsight's duration as a nod to the frustration of playing against it, but the cooldown nerf implies that the problem goes beyond simple discomfort, since that's a power level nerf, not a frustration nerf, one that we feel isn't justified given Quinn's particular strengths, but especially given her weaknesses. I and many others wish Riot would act sensibly and nerf one thing or the other before moving forward, because if the nerfs have the consequences we fear (and we have people with over 1000 Quinn games over there; I'm close to that number myself) then Quinn will remain playable, but almost certainly not viable, and that's something no one side should want. There's been some concern that she might be getting nerfed because she's viable in many roles, but that's wrong in multiple levels. For one, there's the opinion that Quinn has "spilled out of botlane". How is this wrong? Well: * Quinn has never, at any point, been a viable botlane ADC. She's playable in the role, but the nature of her kit, she's subobtimal for many reasons: a non-combat ult, low range with no AoE prowess to speak of in order to compensate, no on-demand steroids and a historical difficulty in accessing those she does have, poor performance in everything needed out of an ADC such as teamfight prowess, siege potential, tank-killing ability and an overall counterproductive-to-the-role ult that better rewards splitpushing and flanking, both things that botlane ADCs can't do without compromising their team. This is the reason why, even at her strongest, Quinn doesn't appear competitively as an ADC, except for a handful of failed tries, iirc in their entirety. The reason why people play Quinn as an ADC even today is because she was originally sold to us as an ADC at a time when those belonged almost exclusively to the botlane; her play rate bot before the rework was ~80% ADC even though that wasn't, hasn't ever been her optimal role. Today, it's her least favored role, but there are hardcore Quinn players true to what they've played forever, regardless of her talents. * In that vein, make no mistake, Quinn was, by [her designer's will](https://www.reddit.com/r/QuinnMains/comments/3m0j3v/deciphering_what_repertoir_has_in_store_for_quinn/cvc11yv), reworked to be optimized a solo laner. Quinn is a solo laner, so it's frustrating to read people who resent her "getting out of botlane" when that was never her place. * In fact, it's due to her increased popularity that people have become aware that Quinn is able to be played in multiple positions, however, *this has always been the case*. Old Quinn was a better jungler than new Quinn because Q used to blind (except on the first auto) the entirety of the camps, as well as having a stronger spike level 6 and being an overall better ganker. The difference between old Quinn and new Quinn in the jungle is that the patience system enabled her beyond old Quinn's ability to weather the jungle. She's still not particularly viable in the position because warrior simply fails to offer Quinn the tools she needs to snowball a game before she becomes useless, and while it's a good bundle of stats, it can't be compared to the powerspikes all competitively viable junglers receive when they finish their jungle item. Melee, non-warrior junglers are the S and A tier because of this, as well as the increased importance of Herald, that greatly reduces ranged damage with Quinn having no alternative melee states like Elise or Nidalee. In essence, people seem to be calling for nerfs due to nearsight itself, not her power level. In fact, most detractors seem to detest the mechanic and ask for it to be removed, in which case these nerfs are not going to satisfy either party. It feels like the nerfs are trying to appease the "masses", and that's not fair to Quinn players. Nearsight is frustrating, I agree, nearly all of us do, but understanding that some abilities, even though they're frustrating, are core to a champion's kit is the key to balancing correctly. I always use the example of Yasuo's Windwall, which I find the most frustrating ability in the game, because even though I hate it, I understand why he needs it in this state in order to function, and why Yasuo's designers readily call him the best of his class, melee carries, in terms of health and ability to express power. Fizz's Playful/Trickster is another such example. The point that's being made here is that the people frustrated by nearsight will hate Quinn regardless of Q's cooldown, so balancing with that in mind invites arbitrary changes. In turn, we refuse to accept that a single targeted ability tied to a skillshot that's difficult to hit consistently be generically branded as "lacking counterplay" or any such misrepresentation, especially when the CC it inflicts allows for action despite its strong disconcerting power. It is precisely because we agree the power of confusion to be strong that we'd see the duration of nearsight lowered, but the cooldown on Blinding Assault bears little to no relation to this matter. To be quite honest, some of us even think that the nerfs won't be that impactful, but then again, these changes are being challenged not because they don't leave Quinn playable, but because they most likely leave her unviable. Q is Quinn's fallback pattern; nerfing it in this manner, while it might not much affect Quinn's core strengths, harms her ability to provide value for her team outside of her best case scenarios, which has always been Quinn's problem. Quinn has always been a lane dominant champion that could run away with the game by stretching her influence across the map if she got far ahead enough, but she had never been viable before the nearsight change. A change of this magnitude might not seem like much to the untrained eye but for those of us who played with Quinn for the entirety of her inviable period see it as a threat reminiscent of her feast-or-famine status, a thing we're not eager to relive and something Repertoir certainly wanted to steer away from.
I agree with you, i play Quinn and i like her as a top laner and as a mid laner(and they said that the rework was intended to make Quin as a MID LANER,so is if she is played as a solo laner IS FINE, anyway, her win rate is good even as an adc, so if you want to play her in the bot lane you still can), i don't like the nerf to the Q cooldowns, the nerf to the Nearsight duration ,instead, is more "everyone hates this mechanic(and i understand why, i think they need to find something else soon or later) so we nerf the duration of this debuff and people will be happy" Anyway, in the end, as a Quinn player(not main, but i play her quite often) i can stand with the debuff duration nerf, but i don't like the nerf to the cooldown, especially because Quinn is a caster ADC and is nice like this, so making her cooldowns higher decrease a lot her damage output and impact in teamfight. English is not my main language, i'm sorry! :D
They are nerfing/changing Lux in this PBE cycle, i think this "post this on Live boards" is going a bit too far nowadays xD
: Yeah I figure it'll be another over-nerf situation like they've been doing the last few years. Been hoping they would do that to the few obvious outliers that have been too popular for too long, like leesin.
For example, FOR NOW, i like the Lux nerfs, they did a really well made nerf, without exaggerating, he is strong but is not 56% win rate or perm ban stuff like that, so is ok. For Nida instead i'm a bit worried because they are also going to nerf(and is a nice nerf) the Ruinc echoes, so maybe they should wait to see if Nida still strong or maybe nerfing her core item was enough, instead of doing BOTH in the same patch! Is PBE anyway, so we will see, they could revert something when they want so i'm completely fine. Also, even if they do some "bad changes" (IMO) here and there, at the end of the day i usually like the way Riot approach balance changes, overall. :D
: I still see fiora & udyr abusing it more in the live servers. Riot, when is this 'assassin building tank then solo-ing teams' problem going to be addressed?
I completely agree with you, i hate Shyvanas going tank with a devourer and a titanic (that still a "half tank" item ) tanking everything and bursting down everyone quick as a full AD riven, but is also true that Fiora and Yi will synergies less with tankyness and will need more bonus AD, and Shyvana is going to take some Nerfs(finally), so i fear this is going to be another " we nerfed 2 things simultaneously and maybe was too much " 15 AD is a good amount of gold, so the gold efficiency of the item goes down, and if the champs that are stronger with the item start synergies less on the item too, we risk to see titanic hydra going forgotten. I don't like the " more tanky i am, more i damage i do" in every form, i think is simply stupid, so i don't like this item and i'm not gonna miss the "pentakill-maker 1vsThe Rift tanky Shyvana", but i still trying to be objective :D.
: Sunfire passive is disabled until you start fights i think
No, only Cinderhulk i remember, and in every cases, they still active for a good amount of seconds without taking damages, so if you are in a team fight, you flash away to escape and you go near a monster Cinder is still active and you get aggro, and i died 3 times flashing in dragon pit for the Cinderhulk xD and is SO frustrating.
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I HyoKi I

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