: this is a short-term change as far as i know. he's slated for a rework higher bleed stack cap, lower cooldowns, but less burst damage
What I'm trying to say is that even those listed changes will not make him a viable champion. It might make him healthier to fight against as another melee champion, but the era of melee/melee top lane brawls is over; even Sion's rerelease gave him a very long range poke tool to use in lane on top of his shield. Darius's problems stem from the fact that he's still an unsafe short-range melee champion in an environment full of highly mobile, ranged CCs and sustainers and strong gankers. Neither the PBE changes nor the slated changes in the rework address those problems and if nothing is done, they will end up like the Skarner changes; ultimately pointless and unplayed even after months of buffing.
Rioter Comments
: Rough Notes [PBE - 10/09/2014]
Just wondering, is it common in playtesting for people to smite the enemy jungler instead of the objective during smite contests with these changes?
: Preseason 2015: Experimental objective and item changes
Are underused items and item paths being re-examined? For example, Recurve Bow used to be a fairly frequent build item, but none of its build items are now especially effective after it was removed from many recipes, making it and its build path pointless. Are these being re-examined? Additionally, will the difficulty of Dragon as an objective be readdressed? Dragon currently becomes an incredibly easy objective despite its status during the mid game. Since its midgame importance is possibly increased, will it become much more contestable and less soloable?
: Preseason 2015 Experimental Jungle Changes
This is still incredibly vague, especially considering how vague the previous announcement was. Should we be expecting these experimental changes to hit PBE today? Is there any specific example, however small, that can be used to represent what people should expect? For example, I'm sure there is probably at least one item/enchantment that people agreed upon was a good example of the enchantment system being functional for this whole idea to have been approved. Since these are already experimental changes, isn't there a bone that can be thrown to the player base as to what they can expect from the new items/enchantments?
Rioter Comments
: In-progress Lunar Revel skins on the PBE
Is Diana's death animation going to be updated for the Lunar skin? Right now, Lunar Diana's death animation silhouette or spirit fading resembles Classic Diana very heavily, which is very noticeable because the model is more distinct than the release Diana skin. Would like the death animation spirit fade to match Lunar Diana more.
  Rioter Comments
: [Team Builder] Can't edit masteries
Yep. I bet the client deselects the outer part while trying to bring up your masteries, but fails to do so, leaving you with no button to reselect your screen again. This is the same problem as with previewing champion profiles. To see what I mean, go to the champion list and move your client to the right so that your the top few buttons are off the screen. Then click on a champion. The champion profile initializes, but because the one X button is now hidden, there is no way to close out of the profile window and return to the client, leaving you with an unresponsive client and forcing you to force close LoL. The client should always have a clickable space around the edges of the client that can be used to close whatever window the client opened and reselect the main client; having to force quit LoL because the client has purposely become unresponsive is a sign of poor or careless design.
  Rioter Comments
: I don't know if you realized, but Zeke's Herald is 100g cheaper now than on live. And it is actually very cost efficient. 800g for 10% CDR, 10 AD , 50 HP and the Aura. There are not many supports that can use the AD (maybe Taric and Leona), but the HP and CDR are worth 400g already. So you spend another 400g for giving your ADC 1200g worth of stats and maybe 1-2 other champs. The problem with the old Zeke's Herald was that supports never had enough gold to really get it and other champs didn't care as much about offensive auras (Aegis is way more important). Now that it is cheaper and supports have gold, it is actually pretty good, but I think that the new support items outshine it too much so that it will not see much presence.
But no support wants to spend 800g on Vamp Scepter and no one wants to wait 1600g to complete Herald when they could just buy something else. Herald is efficient, but with the increase in emphasis on on-hit effects and magic damage on Supports in S4, both Lifesteal and AD become more and more unattractive. It's bad selfishly as well because it has to compete with Spirit Visage in terms of tank stats, CDR, and passive; while Herald gives LS and AD, the amount it gives is exactly one Vamp Scepter whose significance is hard to measure while SV gives stronger raw tank stats, equal CDR, and a very obviously useful passive while having an easy build path. It's hard to measure the worth of 10% LS and 10 AD unless you're rich enough to rush the ZH as your first or second item, which will problably not happen (For example, WOTA was only noticeable because of how abusive Spell Vamp tended to be in AOE). The fact is that ZH has always been a poorly-designed luxury support item and that will only get more evident in S4. Supports have never been able to afford ZH because of how bad the buildup towards it is and, in S4, the movement towards either HP or AP scaling for supports and the increase of gold actually only means that ZH will be built less as supports will have to compete with each other for raw stat efficiency.
: new Season 4 meta and the plight of Mikael's Crucible
Honestly, this is a problem for a number of items that have not been redesigned around the S4 support changes. Because Riot is designing items around supports building them now and giving them according stats such as massive HP, CDR, and/or AP, items that are less optimized (most of which were less optimized in S3 as well) these items will simply be incredibly low priority in S4. Items like Crucible, Herald, and Miracle will not be built in S4 because the other optimized items have been designed to fill in the holes created by the S4 support nerfs and/or scaling changes. If an item does not give HP, AP or CDR, it will be hard to justify building. If an item requires an investment in AD and LS on champions that have poor attack speed and poor AD and AD scaling it will be hard to justify building. These 3 items all need to be examined for S4.
: This has been answered by reds, and the simple answer is 'No'. They've said it would take more time to write out patch notes for each PBE patch, than to actually fix whatever problems that crop up from the new patch, and they'd rather spend time fixing those problems than talking about the ones they've already fixed.
Except that bugs that get listed on PBE still somehow make it to Live (See: Ahri double-hit Q bug). It'd be nice to just have a list of bugs that are active on PBE and then have that list be edited with each iteration with what bugs should be fixed with each patch so that the community can double-check. If Riot really is fixing all the bugs behind the scenes then that's wonderful and I'll eat my words. But it's probably worth the extra time to list the bugs that should be fixed if it means not having to disable champions and apply hotfixes when the patch hits Live.
: Lets use another rewording then: presently, Supports with gold already do FAR LESS DAMAGE than Mages with gold. If you gave 500 AP to a Support and told them to carry, they'd go "Wait, how?" I'm not saying lots of damage, I'm saying RELEVANT damage. Even when I stacked 300 armor on Taric (because 2 armor ratios and a deleted AP ratio) my mid-late game damage output was virtually unnoticeable...hell, it felt nearly identical to live values. And that's with a Randuin on top of an Aegis on top of a Sunfire (see my match history). Same damage. As a guy with zero items. Check me on Live if you think I'm kidding - I'm still playing this guy in Plat and I can say with near-certainty that the damage values are barely any different. In case you didn't notice the implication, that means we're also doing less damage when we aren't swimming in items. Why would that happen, even with the increased gold flow? Falling behind. You get lots of gold when you can stand on a dying minion wave or racking up kills, but if you get zoned out of range or can't get the kills rolling, you still won't have gold income. So in losing situations, you are objectively worse...especially considering that several Utility bases (eg: Janna's Shield) got nerfed as well in response to the new ratios. In short, the changes now make Supports item dependent to deal the same damage output as they previously could with no items, when that damage output wasn't exactly good in the first place. So unless Riot plans on letting the utility scaling be absurdly good (...and that could create a totally different issue) I can still only see this as a straight nerf.
I agree. I thought the point of adding additional or boosted scalings was so that you'd be rewarded more for being rich, not that you'd have to be rich in order to do the same things you already do on Live. I feel like the biggest difference from Live is that tanky supports are now tankier and that AP supports deal slightly more damage or have slightly more utility if fed or even (both being conditional). It still feels bad for you to take CS (even more so since your team gets more gold overall for you not taking CS except for the odd Emblem smite) and it still feels as bad (if not worse because of Assist sprees) for you to take kills and it feels even worse for you to build alternatively because now a support like Taric is pigeonholed into building only tank items because he's been newly balanced around HP and Armor scalings with reduced AP scalings. Supports still aren't allowed to really play the same game as everyone else; they will still have less gold income (although it is enhanced) than other players and they are still (even more heavy-handedly) punished for taking kills. And in return, they have overall worse ratios? Rather than reducing ratios across the board, I'd like some ratios to maintain at decent values, at least for tanky supports, to give incentive to build AP or alternative items on them and to reward them being rich and taking a kill or two. That's what it means for support to carry; right now we're just giving them the illusion of choice while really pigeonholing them into the same builds every game and having roughly the same effectiveness as S3 supports(at least in solo queue; I'm sure that these changes will kill RSS/Mobil Ward bot in competitive and that's good).
: This. I believe getting reports on the PBE was promised to be a surefire way to get you kicked out after 1 or 2 months and never come back. Sad thing is that's too little, too late. The problem seems to be that players **don't see a connection between their Live accounts** and the **PBE wonderland**. I hope in the future PBE testing will be more closely connected to your live account, so that a proven toxic or abusive player will not even be chosen to test. Maybe add **rewards for Live accounts** if you prove to be a valuable tester on the PBE, and **penalties if you abuse the testing environment**. Something like that.
Adding incentive to be actively testing on PBE would be a good touch; I feel like a large majority of people on PBE just use their accounts to create custom games and look at new skins or new champions. The main problem with mass account deletion or deactivation is that the player base on PBE would probably shrink considerably; this is important because queue times on PBE are already pretty long (5-10 minutes for a blind pick game) which means that shrinking the active player base, even if a significant percent is toxic, would still have a net negative effect on testing overall; hard to test efficiently if you're spending a lot of time waiting for matchmaking to find games because there are even less people playing. I don't think you can expect such a large number of people to join the PBE with each invitation set either unless Riot really sends out massive amounts of invitations; it feels like most people would log in and play a custom game to check the changes that they were most interested in and then go back to their main accounts. That's where account-linking and incentive come in; I feel like, at the very least, a percent of IP gained from playing games on the PBE should be in some way linked to each PBE account's main account. Honestly, until Riot figures out how to give incentive to people to play consistently on the PBE while they have access, rather than simply mass deactivating PBE accounts, I'm more in favor of culling accounts that are obviously inactive or toxic, maintaining active users in order to make sure testing doesn't become tedious.
: www.surrenderat20.net/search/label/PBE/ Does one for every update.
Not talking about Patch Notes for the purpose of listing balance changes; I mean that Riot should list the known bugs that should be fixed with each iteration of PBE. Surrender@20 and RoG both look mostly for major balance changes which is why the latest PBE notes they created are so sparse. The idea with getting Bug Fix Notes would be to allow people on PBE to double-check to see if bugs truly have been fixed. A line might say "The bug where Gragas could not roll barrels after respawning if he died with a barrel out should be fixed" which would notify people on PBE to specifically check to see if that bug had been fixed. Double-checking would prevent cases like the Ahri Q double-hit bug which was notified on PBE but still hit Live which caused her to be disabled and subsequently hotfixed. Listing the bugs that should be fixed each iteration should not only identify what bugs remain in each iteration but also allow for further testing to be done to make sure that bugs are not still occurring.
: Red Trinket feels lackluster.
Yeah, I agree; you should be rewarded more for stifling your opponent's vision or traps considering how useless the item is by itself (it's completely reactionary) and how much you tend to sacrifice by depriving your enemy of vision (that is to say, ward-sweeping is more dangerous for you than it is for your opponent to just drop wards at a range). I feel like the duration of the sweep should be increased by 1-2 seconds and the CD lowered to the same as or lower than the yellow trinket.
Rioter Comments
: Private Message not working.
Getting this bug too. It was definitely not a problem before latest patch, but I can't tell what causes/caused it. Hopefully it'll get fixed before the patch hits live.
: Unfortunately that won't change even once the PBE moves to the restricted access model. Reign Of Gaming will still have access to the PBE client files and be able to download patches. They'll still incorrectly datamine files and people will upvote it on Reddit and everyone will flip out about changes that aren't even real. It's a shame. If only people would use Surrender@20 instead.
And it's fine that RoG is datamining. The problem is that with unrestricted PBE account access, a lot of that misinformed reaction gets posted to a forum that is meant for discussion of what is actually on PBE which leads to people discussing changes that lack proper context or are plainly incorrect which is useless for providing feedback. PBE needs to be cleaned up so that proper discussions can be maintained for the purpose of providing feedback and only people who have access to and actually play games on the PBE are qualified to give that feedback.
: Sivir Nerf too Harsh
And this thread is another example of exactly why it's important to start restricting PBE accounts; instead of people actually waiting to get into game and see the actual changes for themselves, people are just using PBE accounts to post knee-jerk reactions to a data-mined and obviously inaccurate list of changes. The nerf isn't even that bad, but because the RoG list left out the scaling adjustment, people are abusing the fact that they can post on this forum to flame Riot.
: Health Bar Rework Update (11/6/2013)
I'd prefer to have the level indicator consistently be on the same side of the bar (left side, to stay consistent with Live) no matter whether it's an enemy or ally unit; the differences in coloring should be vibrant and distinct enough to be sufficient to determine affiliation without requiring the structure of the bar to be changed. I don't like the idea of jumping around to different places around the unit's model to look for this information, even if the difference is only for a split-second.
: Except that in Lucian's case, the bug probably literally breaks the game. Panth's is a very big and overpowered glitch, but it's a problem because of abuse cases, not big giant client killing errors.
It makes it harder to test the new vision though. How can I judge how impactful the ward limits are when, regardless of my ward placement, I get ganked by a jump-spamming Pantheon every 10 seconds? Even if this isn't "gamebreaking" it's definitely unhealthy for actual testing purposes and should be dealt with quickly if Riot actually values accurate feedback on their changes.
: New Support Changes on the PBE (10/31/2013)
I'm really on the fence about the Taric changes. I'm glad that Riot's looking at him as a part of their Season 4 support changes, but I feel like the changes on PBE after playing him still don't make him quite as valuable as other supports. What's cool (in my opinion): -Dazzle and Shatter CD reduction can be boosted through combat to make its base cooldown even less than on live through smart passive use. This is an interesting way to increase the amount of stuns and damage Taric can have in a teamfight and increase his late game activity. -Boosting/adding alternative scalings. This helps Taric do more when he builds the tank items that he has to build to survive in fights. What's bad (in my opinion): -The Dazzle CD increase compensation for the passive. I feel like this negatively impacts his early game when he has less than 4 spells. Because of the nature of Dazzle, primarily its slow projectile animation and low stun duration at early levels, Taric cannot always continuously attack opponents early even if he gets a stun off, which means that his role becomes much more passive, which makes him more of a liability as a melee support with no ranged harass. I'd suggest changing the new cooldown to 16/15/14/13/12; this means that it's still slightly adjusted to compensate for the new passive, but also that it also retains its previous CD as long as Taric follows up on his stun with just one auto-attack. -The CDR removal from Imbue. One of the best parts about Imbue was how when Taric had nothing left to cast that he could wind down Imbue's CD by continuously attacking people. I continue to feel like the CDR passive of Imbue should be retained and kept separate from the new passive CDR since the Imbue continuous CDR promotes continuous fighting rather than run-in, run-out that is encouraged by the passive charge system. The other thing I wanted to discuss was Zeke's Herald. It's pretty underused right now in S3 and, honestly, feels like it will continue to be underused in S4. The fact is that, even with the increased gold for supports in S4, no support ever, ever wants to waste gold on Vamp Scepter. Supports tend to have below average AD or attack speeds and compensate by having magic damage on-hit effects, which means that Lifesteal is inefficient on them and their heavily AP or Tank scalings mean that they're much more inclined to continue to boost their AP or Tank stats in order to improve their support utility rather than buying stats that only pay off on completion. The S4 support scaling changes and the retained stat inefficiency only mean that Zeke's Herald will be even less of a priority even with the increased gold gain.
: Why hasn't Pantheon been disabled yet?
Upvoted to support disabling. Testing on PBE is farce right now because of Pantheon ulti spamming in blind pick games; it's hard to get a decent read on the state of vision when you get skydrop ganked every 10 seconds. Even when you're winning, the reduced death timers make it tedious to push because of how quickly he can return into a fight even after dying. Really, really hindering testing by leaving him in this state.

I FNC Rekkles I

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